comparing this with Shaykh Nuh's Tasawwuf

[al-Hanbali]

http://www.suficenter.org/Community/index.html

They say that they are Shadhiliyah but they have pictures of women and other things that sound new-age. Whats up? Does any one here know about them?

[muslim786]

http://www.suficenter.org/Community/index.html

They say that they are Shadhiliyah but they have pictures of women and other things that sound new-age. Whats up? Does any one here know about them?
I am not sure exactly about the site etc, and those people running it.
But their shaykh Sidi Shaykh Muhammad Sa‘id al-Jamal ar-Rifa‘i ash-Shadhuli, is the Imam and Khatib of Masjid Al Aqsa in Jerusalem, I doubt he is new age.

His Bio:

Sidi Shaykh Muhammad Sa‘id al-Jamal ar-Rifa‘i ash-Shadhuli, the Guide of the peace, the mercy, and the love to the way of Allah through the Sufi path a guide of the Shadhdhuliyyah Tariqah, founded by as-Shaykh Ali Abu-l-Hasan as-Shadhili in Egypt in the thirteenth century. The Shaykh is a descendent of the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, through his ancestor, Shaykh Ahmad ar-Rifa‘i. He was born in Tulkum in the Holy Land in 1935. He is the spiritual inheritor through the Shadhili line from his Guide and Master, Shaykh ‘Abdu-r-Rahman Abu-r-Risah of Halab in the land of Syria, and is one who has kept Sufism alive and at work as an institution and a school of thought and spiritual knowledge. In 1997 he restored the 1000 year old Sufi Council that served in the Holy Land. He is the Head of this Council in Jerusalem and the Holy Land and has been a teacher and central figure at the Masjid al-Aqsa or the Dome of the Rock for many years.

The Shaykh has been living on the Mount of Olives in the Holy City of Jerusalem since the year 1959. The teaching from his spirit is very deep and for all those who have a heart and who listen with this heart. His teaching sheds an entirely new light on the reality of Sufism and the significance of carrying this message to everyone in this time.

For many years the Shaykh has been a teacher at the sacred sanctuary of al-Aqsa in Jerusalem, which is linked for all Muslims to the Holy House in Mecca in the tradition of the Night Journey (al-Mi‘raj) of the Prophet Muhammad from the Ka‘ba in Mecca to the al-Aqsa Mosque and from there to the heavens. He is well known to many people both in Palestine and in other countries in the world. Not only is he a teacher and counselor for all those who come to be at al-Aqsa, but he is also its custodian, for through his hand and leadership in these times this Sacred Precinct has been preserved, in the face of many efforts to destroy it, as a place of prayer for the Muslim people who come from all over the world to visit the Holy City of Jerusalem and to take the blessing of the praying in this Mosque. The Shaykh has students and followers in the Holy Land as well as in America and Europe, but it has only been since 1993 that the order came to his heart to travel to visit other countries. At the same time the order came from Allah for him to give teachings to all those in every part of the world who are sincerely seeking for the truth of their existence, the meaning of their life, and to heal their wounds. Up until then, the teaching had been reserved only for study in his Zawiyah in Jerusalem.

Shaykh Muhammad Sa‘id al-Jamal is a distinguished person of international stature. For forty years he has lived in the Holy City of Jerusalem and has worked consistently with great patience to keep the peace between the people there.

He began his career at a very young age as an uncompromising man of God, who had no fear of anyone but God, and because of this took a stand facing governments any time they tried to overlook God in their actions or disrespected people's right to worship God. Being a judge of the courts, he was a government employee, at the same time that he gave weekly sermons in al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. He has been the spiritual counselor to the people of the Holy Land and to all those who have visited over the past forty years and has given his life as a sacrifice to this work.

He makes monthly journeys all over the Holy Land to help the poor and to make sure that everyone has food and clothing. There are always lines of people at his home and at his office because they know that they can find real help from him.

The Shaykh opened a Sufi Center in an old building on the road to Jericho which holds the Prophet Moses' tomb, may the peace and blessings of God be with him. This center became the head of the Sufi operations of aid. It has also been used to rehabilitate drug users and dealers.

In 1994 he made his first visit to America and has continued to be invited here each year to give seminars and teachings at schools and centers across the United States. The Shaykh is not a teacher for a few following a spiritual path but opens his heart to help everyone from any country or nationality and he has helped people from all over the world. The real beloved of God works for all those who are suffering and who need food and clothes in all this world. He is a leader who helps to keep peace no matter what the cost and who serves humanity without prejudice.

[al-Hanbali]

I dont mean the Shaykh in al Quds, but the people running the site. Its not uncommon for people to affiliate themselves with a scholar while deviating from the Shaykhs actual teachings.

What i meant by the title of this thread was that, when comparing between the stringent, strict Shar'iah based Tasawwuf propogated by Shaykh Nuh, this site seems to be a bit away from that. From reading its contents, i get the feeling that it is incorperating the new age "california" all inclusiveness that many new age pop culture sufis love.

it could well be that im reading things with a bias and that i am totally wrong about this institute. But one has to wonder when the sell and endorse books by David Spangler

[muslim786]

I dont mean the Shaykh in al Quds, but the people running the site. Its not uncommon for people to affiliate themselves with a scholar while deviating from the Shaykhs actual teachings.

What i meant by the title of this thread was that, when comparing between the stringent, strict Shar'iah based Tasawwuf propogated by Shaykh Nuh, this site seems to be a bit away from that. From reading its contents, i get the feeling that it is incorperating the new age "california" all inclusiveness that many new age pop culture sufis love.

it could well be that im reading things with a bias and that i am totally wrong about this institute. But one has to wonder when the sell and endorse books by David Spangler
I agree with you the site seems dodgy, however its not as bad as some others.

[IlyasLahoz]

From reading its contents, i get the feeling that it is incorperating the new age "california" all inclusiveness that many new age pop culture sufis love.

Salaam 'alaikum,
It certainly seems that way to me as well. It's not uncommon to find 'sufi claimers' whose sufism has little to do with being a better Muslim. Or a Muslim at all for that matter.
That the Shaykh in this case associates with these folks does seem to indicate tacit approval of their practices. I'm sure though that there is some other explanation.
Allahu 'alam.

[al-Hanbali]

The man in charge, Ibrahim Jaffe, pictured here :

http://www.suficenter.org/Community/ibrahimjaffe.html

runs an institute here:
http://www.jaffeinstitute.org/

this is linked on their site. What was a suspicion is confirmed for me. What kind of "Sufi healing" is a person going to get from a frizzle haired non muslim lady?

first it was madonna with the kaballah thing, whats next, Haile Berry and whoever else leading a sufi "healing" hadrah?

insane

[Omar HH]

NOO WAY..

Sidi Muhammad Jamal is not a pseudo-Shadhili. He learned in Masjid al-Aqsa. I know many who know him. They are a real tariqa. Go ask Shaykh Nureddin Durkee (who is friends with Shaykh Nuh) about them for more information.

They are very pro-Shari`ah praying, fasting, etc. Their website just makes them look a little bit different sometimes.

Shaykh Muhammad Jamal was the Imam of Masjid al-Aqsa.

[Omar HH]

I wasn't referring to the esteemed Sheikh himself. Take a look at the Jaffe Institute Website to see what I mean.

O ok ok ok.

Sidi Muhammad Jamal is a good guy.

He even shows you how to pray ;)

http://www.sufimaster.org/teachings/salat.htm

[hiker]

I wasn't referring to the esteemed Sheikh himself. Take a look at the Jaffe Institute Website to see what I mean.
The whole things seems weird to me..
There are many exaggerated sufi, so it may be worth looking at what they mean at spiritual healing...

[Omar HH]

Take a look at the Mahabith to know a true Sufi from a fake one:

http://www.guidinghelper.com/pdf/MA_Explanation.pdf

:jazak:

[Sad ibn Abu Waqqas]

In the name of Allah, with peace and blessings upon the Messenger of Allah,

Salam 'Alaykum



http://www.suficenter.org/Community/index.html

They say that they are Shadhiliyah but they have pictures of women and other things that sound new-age. Whats up? Does any one here know about them?

As regards pictures of women: there are positions held by competent scholars which permit (but do not recommend) photographs of animate beings on the internet (the claim being that such pictures are not what is meant by "picture" in the hadiths forbidding such things.)

What I found bad on that site is that the pictures show women with heads uncovered or not properly covered.

The new age stuff may be nothing more than a way of appealing to Americans who are likely to be drawn by that: they may be trying to speak to people according to their understanding.

Wa al-Salam,...

[muslim786]

In the name of Allah, with peace and blessings upon the Messenger of Allah,

Salam 'Alaykum




As regards pictures of women: there are positions held by competent scholars which permit (but do not recommend) photographs of animate beings on the internet (the claim being that such pictures are not what is meant by "picture" in the hadiths forbidding such things.)

What I found bad on that site is that the pictures show women with heads uncovered or not properly covered.

The new age stuff may be nothing more than a way of appealing to Americans who are likely to be drawn by that: they may be trying to speak to people according to their understanding.

Wa al-Salam,...
Either way the Hazrat Shaykh Muhammad Jamal is a good guy. And is the Imam and Khatib of Masjid Al Aqsa and aint no goofy dude.

[Omar HH]

Either way the Hazrat Shaykh Muhammad Jamal is a good guy. And is the Imam and Khatib of Masjid Al Aqsa and aint no goofy dude.

When all these people die and realize how many awliyah they spoke about - they are going to regret ever saying anything on anybody.

May Allah forgive us.

Now we're talking bad about the Imam of Masjid al-Aqsa, the other day talking bad about Imam al-Haramayn, the other day talking bad about maybe the most qualified scholar in North America - every single day people are just being really unintelligent.

Anyways it is gheeba to say what your Muslim brother dislikes. Sidi Muhammad Jamal is a Muslim. Therefore if you say anything he dislikes thats a major sin. People repent and quit talking about Sufis behind their backs. If you really gave a damn what this guy was you would email him and ask him himself!

This just makes me very angry,

may Allah ta`ala forgive us as we are all not free of mistakes except the Prophets :saw:

may Allah give us all good,

Omar.

[Omar HH]

What the hell is wrong with the site.

Firstly the Shari`ah based 7 stages of the Nafs. Oh, do you not believe me? Go open up the Mahabith al-Asliyah for the exact same thing by Ibn al-Banna!


# Al-Amarra: Listening to the Orders from the Darkness
# Al-Lawamma: The Stations of Sill Questioning
# Al-Amina: The Stations of Faith and Trust
# Al-Mutma’inna: The Station of Security
# Al-Radhiyya: Not Obeying Anything from the Nafs
# Al-Mardhiyya: Accepting Without Asking
# Al-Kamila: The Perfections of the Nafs

(These seven stations contain all the stations of the Way. Click here for an in-depth explanation of the Nafs from Sidi's magnificent book The Path to Allah, Most High)

His Silsla?


1. The first one is the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah’s Peace and Blessings be upon him.
2. ‘Ali b. Abu Talib
3. Al-Hassan
4. Abu Muhammad Jabir
5. Sa‘id al-Ghaznawi
6. Fath as-Su’ud
7. Sa‘d
8. Abu Muhammad Sa‘id
9. Ahmad al-Marwani
10. Ibrahim al-Basri
11. Zayn al-din al-Qazwini
12. Muhammad Sham ad-din
13. Muhammad Tajaddin
14. Nur a-din abu’l Hassan ‘Ali
15. Fakhr ad-din
16. Tuqay ad-din al-fuqayyir
17. ‘Abd ar-Rahman al-‘Attar Az-Zayyat
18. ‘Abd as-Salam b. Mashish
19. Abu-l-Hassan ash-Shadhuli
20. Abul-‘Abbas al-Mursi
21. Ahmad ibn Ata‘ Allah
22. Dawud al-Bahhili
23. Muhammad Wafa
24. Yahya l-Qadiri
25. Ahmad b. Uqba al-Hadrami
26. Ahmad Zarruq
27. Ibrahim Afaham
28. ‘Ali as-Sanhaja al-Dawwar
29. Muhyid-din ibn al-‘Arabi
30. ‘Abd ar-Rahman al-Majdhub
31. Yusuf al-Fasi
32. ‘Abd ar-Rahman al-Fasi
33. Muhammad b. ‘Abdullah
34. Qasim al-Khassasi
35. Ahmad b. ‘Abdullah
36. Al-‘Arabi b. Ahmad ‘Abdullah
37. ‘Ali al-Jamal
38. Abu Hamza
39. ‘Ali Nuriddin
40. Sidi Ibrahim b. ‘Ali Nuriddin
41. Sidi ‘Abd ar-Rahman
42. Sidi Muhammad Sa‘id al-Jamal


Oh ok... well let's see:

I'ma go under practices to see what kind of "crazy new age stuff" these "pseudo Shadhilis" do:




Shahadah
The declaration of faith -there is no god but God, and Muhammad is His messenger- contains the seeker of truth in all his stations.

Hmm... if thats new-age then Islam is new-age;

Well what else - they probably have something crazy like sit around and feel the spirits of the Hindus right...

hmm...


Wudu
Before ritual prayer, cleansing with pure water is required as a sign of the servant washing in the water of the soul.

WUDU... yeah because WUDU is so new age,


# Practices After Salah - Personal prayers and dhikr after worship
# Sunnah Prayers - Customary worship in the way of the Prophet

* Witr Prayer - The final night nrayer
* Tahajjud Prayer - The night vigil prayer
* Tarawih Prayer - Prayer during Ramadan

Because it is soooo new age to pray Witr, Tahajjud, and Tarawih.

People's comments on this website sicken me. May Allah guide you all. This is disgusting. Did you even read the website people?

Why does Shaykh Nuh get 99 excuses and Shaykh Muhammad Jamal get 0? Because his website looks inclusive for da`wah? May Allah forgive you all.

His Shadhili wird is exactly the same as the other Shadhili wird:

http://www.suficenter.org/Practices/alwird.html

So how in the hell are they Pseudo Shadhilis? Are you more Shadhili then they are?

What else...

There is nothing "new-age" about their explanation of Khalwa:

http://www.suficenter.org/Practices/khalwah.html

Hmm... well they must be selling some new-age stuff in the Gift Shop...

What are they selling in the Gift shop?

The Qur'an,
The Shadhili Wird,
The Idiot's Guide to Islam,
Prayer Rugs,
Kufis.

Yeah so how in the hell do you think it's new-age.

I will not lie right now. I am flaming angry with whoever attacks the Shadhili tariqa of Sidi Muhammad Jamal. Especially at this disgusting thread full of disgusting comments accusing people of being new-age when all their website preaches is Islam - when the Shaykh is the Imam of al-Aqsa, and just because of one picture with a Hijab hanging down they are automatically "new-age deviants."

Go open "Seasons" magazine of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf - you will see a woman with uncovered hair on a picture on one of the pages - an author of a work. Does that make Shaykh Hamza new-age? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I am appalled - did you guys even read the site? Because if you did and you think Wudu, Salat, Tarawih, Tahhajjud, Shahada, Prayer Rugs, Qur'an, Kufis, Shadhili Wird, Khalwa, and the Imam of al-Aqsa are new-age and un-Islamic you are either:

a) Mentally retarded,
b) Deranged of intellect,
c) Out of your right minds,
d) Extremely stupid
e) Extremely biased

So pick and chose.

I am sick and tired of people immediately rushing calling people pseudo-Sufis, new-age, and other things - such acts require foresight and knowledge and not quick thinking. And some people you don't even know if they are pseudo or real even after years. So it is best to keep quiet - shut up - and move on unless you are certain the person is as you say.

If anyone is surprised with my sudden harsh tone then let them know now - if you are going to attack `Ullema unjustly that are sincere good people (including Shaykh al-Islam ibn Taymiyah) then I am on the offensive - whether it is Shaykh Nuh, Habib `Ali, Shaykh Hamza, etc.

May Allah grant us all good and forgive me and you and expose my mistakes and errors.

[al-Hanbali]

I am appalled - did you guys even read the site? Because if you did and you think Wudu, Salat, Tarawih, Tahhajjud, Shahada, Prayer Rugs, Qur'an, Kufis, Shadhili Wird, Khalwa, and the Imam of al-Aqsa are new-age and un-Islamic you are either:

a) Mentally retarded,
b) Deranged of intellect,
c) Out of your right minds,
d) Extremely stupid
e) Extremely biased

So pick and chose.

I am sick and tired of people immediately rushing calling people pseudo-Sufis, new-age, and other things - such acts require foresight and knowledge and not quick thinking. And some people you don't even know if they are pseudo or real even after years. So it is best to keep quiet - shut up - and move on unless you are certain the person is as you say.



I appreciate your concern brother, may Allah reward you for your intention and defense. I must reiterate though, i am not speaking of the Shaykh in al-Quds and i am not attacking anyone.

In this age of false sufis and new age spiritualists claiming tasawwuf, i am hesitant to just accept anyone who is not known and recognized by those who i beleive to be authentic practicioners of tasawwuf.

What i have learned is that a true Shaykh of the Tariqah observes the way of the Shari'ah and holds fast to the Aqidah of Ahlus sunnah.

What concerned me with the site is not so much its general content that speak of Islam and worship, but rather it is other subtle things that include the likes of:


The graduates of their Healing programs and instructors:

from the site:

Meet Dr. Mariam Ruth McGinnis, a faculty member of the School of Spiritual Healing & Sufism since 2003.

Although Mariam was a successful psychotherapist for many years, that is not her greatest accomplishment. She says that she started life seen as "poor white trash and so dyslexic that I was mistaken for retarded," but through her own strength of will and ardent desire to improve her lot in life she overcame rural poverty and other significant challenges to become a college professor and a nationally respected psychotherapist.

It is easy to assume that those in positions of power and authority achieved their success easily and with the helping hands of others in high places, rather than recognizing the often amazing obstacles that they have overcome. Very often, the challenges and barriers those in such positions faced during their journeys may not be apparent, but are often more important than the positions themselves, as they illustrate the strength and accomplishment of the individual in a way that the mere titles of office cannot.

Mariam says, "I had a spiritual connection and yet I was not truly working from this place; in my work life I was still moving largely from my will." Exhausted, and feeling the weight of her years of service to others, she finally came to a point at which she reached a dead end and closed her private practice.

Tired to the point of collapse, she accepted the invitation of a friend to attend a healing workshop in another part of the country. Too sick to travel alone, she relied on her friend to get her to the workshop, and she remains grateful to this day for the intervention of her friend.

At the workshop, Mariam worked with Dr. Jaffe, and her life began to change for the better immediately. I experienced a level of spiritual connection that was beyond what I had known. "I went in desperation and left the workshop with hope," she says. "I took the next year to heal under Dr. Jaffe’s guidance and began to learn how a spiritual connection could heal me. Initially I could barely walk with 2 canes. I was having trouble making sentences because I was so tired. I was in such a state of exhaustion that my brain was not functioning properly. A year later, I was strong enough to enroll in the Healing School."

Her Healing School experiences left her with more than just renewed hope and health; it helped put her whole life in perspective. Of discovering the peace in Sufism, she says that all the painful residue and bitterness from the difficulties she encountered throughout her life are now all gone. "I know in my heart that these challenges shape what I am to give," says Mariam. "I used to know this intellectually and still felt resentful. Now I know the truth of it in my heart."

“From the mystical Sufi teachings I learned at Healing School, I fully moved into an enlarged world view. I could then integrate into that perspective, the skills and knowledge that had made me successful as a psychotherapist. It’s not that you lose what you had before but it gets translated into an all encompassing framework."

Mariam, now an ordained minister, is a faculty member of The School of Spiritual Healing & Sufism and continues to help people in her private practice as a healer and spiritual director. Mariam regularly leads teleclasses and workshops across the country. For more information, go to

http://www.jaffeinstitute.org/Events/new_events.php.

Personal Profile: She loves cats, hats, jazz, classical music & art. Her favorite movie is The Hunt for Red October. "Alec Baldwin, James Earl Jones, Sean Connery, intrigue and psychological, I love it all!"

I am not backbiting by doing a cut and paste of what they publisize. If this is a faculty member who offers Sufi healing, then what does that tell us? It seems to indicate that their sufi teachers are non muslim women who arent even muslim.


as far as the gift page, i cant help but to be concerned when sufis sell books by david spangler

http://dwij.org/forum/statesperson/david_spangler.htm

you are right brother, we should ask them directly, and i intent to do so. I want to ask
1. Is is required to be a Muslim to be an instructor
2. Do you tell your instructors that they should wear the Hijab?
3. Why do you put pictures of unclothed women on your site which is haram according to all of the four madh'habs.


I learned from Shaykh Nuh that if a Tariqah or teacher is openly doing something that is against the 4 math'habs then know that it is a defunt Tariqah.

Can i be wrong ? of course, but as long as they openly publisize these things, it is not in the realm of backbiting to bring it to peoples attention and ask if this is allowed in the Tariqah and if this is a legitimate group.

[Omar HH]

I know Muslims in tariqa who know personally the people in their tariqa - Sidi Muhammad Jamal is a Muslim and his murids are Muslims - I can assure you.

Dr. Jaffee from my understanding all I can tell you is that he runs an institute for spiritual healing and that anyone can graduate from it even non-Muslims. This is not neccessarily tariqa information.

Insha Allah I will tell my Muslim friends who know him dearly and well (Sidi Muhammad) to insha Allah comment on this. He has another website also about Sufism etc. And if you listen to his Suhbas (which are in Arabic) you will see what they really are.

May Allah grant you all good.

:jazak:

[muslim786]

I know Muslims in tariqa who know personally the people in their tariqa - Sidi Muhammad Jamal is a Muslim and his murids are Muslims - I can assure you.

Dr. Jaffee from my understanding all I can tell you is that he runs an institute for spiritual healing and that anyone can graduate from it even non-Muslims. This is not neccessarily tariqa information.

Insha Allah I will tell my Muslim friends who know him dearly and well (Sidi Muhammad) to insha Allah comment on this. He has another website also about Sufism etc. And if you listen to his Suhbas (which are in Arabic) you will see what they really are.

May Allah grant you all good.

:jazak:
Its about time someone had a go at the accusers.

[muhammadnur]

Salaam,

I think what bro Al Hanbali wrote before really applys here:

"I dont mean the Shaykh in al Quds, but the people running the site. Its not uncommon for people to affiliate themselves with a scholar while deviating from the Shaykhs actual teachings."

Because I have met (online) a few of the Shaikhs "murids" and either they were not even Muslim (one of them invited me to a Unity Church so I can understand that God doesn't approve of jihad), and the others were not practicing.

I think its possible that alot of things maybe going on "under the radar" of the Shaikh since he's not physically present. And its his North American muqaddam that created the sites in question.

"It's not what you do when the shaikh is around its what you do when the shaikh is not around..." - Shaikh Nuh

Allahu Alim

Muhammad-Nur

[tazkiyyah]

I think its good to present a lenient view on these things sometimes.

Whether you are non-muslim or muslim,
the important thing is being able to Love.

As we learnt from our hindu mashaykh
there are 2 paths
1)Jnani
2)Bhakti

[Omar HH]

Are you really going to go to the website and point out every bad thing? I could do that with alot of things but I am not going to. "And whoever sees the speck in his neighbor's eye does not notice the plank in his own"

Whatever I am not going to waste my time. I already defended the Shaykh. People use the word false tariqa like they are drinking water. Go ahead call people false tariqa, misguided, munafiq, kaffir, whatever you want in this world (I do not reccomend it) - Allah will ask you about everything. I am not the judge.

What happened to 70 excuses for your Muslim brother. If it was really intended as nasiha why didn't you email the webmasters and make it private?

Anyways i'm done with this - this is my last word on the entire matter.

Goodbye.

[Kareem]

omar you are completely misunderstanding him, he not at all slandering the shaykh, he is just curious for some stange things he has seen on the mentioned site. is that wrong?

[ilm_seeker]

As sallamu alaikum

Blimmey! This thread is taking off in the wrong direction. I agree with sentiments that those people (generally) who water down Islam and relax the rules are running the risk of falling in to something wrong. However, what good is there in discussing this whole issue?

Sheikh nuh and the sheikh of that website are not here to comment. End of story.

Wa alaikum as sallam

[muslim786]

As sallamu alaikum

Blimmey! This thread is taking off in the wrong direction. I agree with sentiments that those people (generally) who water down Islam and relax the rules are running the risk of falling in to something wrong. However, what good is there in discussing this whole issue?

Sheikh nuh and the sheikh of that website are not here to comment. End of story.

Wa alaikum as sallam
Ahsan time to close shop methinks?

[Kaaju Barfi]

:salam:

Why doesn't some one e-mail the shaykh and post the shaykh's reply regarding the website. I do share ahsan irfan's comments on the website, these people are not qualified to teach tasawuf as they do not fulfil certain basic criteria. No point getting offended about that.

:ws:

[muslim786]

:salam:

Why doesn't some one e-mail the shaykh and post the shaykh's reply regarding the website. I do share ahsan irfan's comments on the website, these people are not qualified to teach tasawuf as they do not fulfil certain basic criteria. No point getting offended about that.

:ws:
Sidi Jamal is shaykh fear Allah SWT before you say he aint qualified. The members in the US may not be. But Sid Jamal is a great wali.

[Omar HH]

Ok I spoke to my friend he said:

He partly agrees with you. He said the murids are still learning and Sidi does not want to scare them away though.

If you look at the website (other than "spiritual healing" which is holistic healing method of people as opposed to physical healing) you will see that Shari`ah is promoted. The site teaches the Shahada, how to pray, tells you to do wudu, has the Shadhili wird, and other Islamic things. In that entire website the only thing I saw even "questionable" is that picture of that woman with the hijab falling off and the spiritual healing college.

It tells you to do Sunnah prayers, Salat al-Ishraq, Tahajjud and Tarawih. So how in the hell is the website questionable is what I am wondering.

The website even says:


Quote:
"This means, I belive there is no god, only one God. He is Allah. And I also believe that the Prophet Muhammad, may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him, was sent by God and he, may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him, carries all the religions from Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Jesus and from all the prophets. There are twenty-five main prophets.

Muhammad carries the message. If anyone wants to be a Muslim, then he must believe in all the prophets. All of the prophets believe and say, "there is no god but He, and He is Allah." Muhammad also carries the religion, and this religion says to the people that they must walk in the way to know the truth. "

There is no doubt that these Shadhilis are true Shadhilis - this tariqa is a true tariqa - and this Shaykh is a true Shaykh. At least in my mind.

Tassawuf is a careful subject - if you mess up and say bad things about Awliyah or true tariqas then you are pretty much screwed in life. So you have to be really careful before you say stuff - REALLY careful. Just warning you. Imagine if this was Shaykh Nuh's website (I only say this because he is a big Shaykh that you all love) and you were saying these things about him. What's the difference? Well Sidi Muhammad is also a big Shaykh.

Sidi Muhammad also has another website here:

http://www.sufimaster.org/

Anyways may Allah bless you all,

Omar.

[Lisanulhaq]

Assalamu Aleykum,

I know Sidi Muhammad al-Jamal personally. I happen to know that he becamse hafidh of the qur'an at the age of 7, and finished the memorization of Bukhari and Muslim by the age of 15. He is a charismatic shaykh, mashaAllah, and knows awliya from all over the world, and they all know him.

He knows MAwlana Shaykh Nazim, HAbib Umar bin Hafidh, Sidi Hazem Ghazala, and many more. I have done hadhra with him, and left with a nur and baraka that I can't describe. Sidi is VERY shariah oriented, his murids are new, and he is bringing them gradually into the way.

You have to keep in mind, that the murids only have the shaykh, he has no real khalifa here to teach them on a full time basis. This past year, Sidi got more tight on the shariah, leading a few murids to leave him. I was personally sitting with him, when a lady came to him and tried to put a twist on sufism making it like buddhism, and his answer was phenomenal, he shut her up quick and easy.

In his few years coming to the USA, he has converted probably well over 1,000 whites, some of them, if you see, have big beards, hijabs, and follow the sunnah tightly. Some, are more hippy types, slowly changing, coming from backgrounds like being heroine addicts and potheads.

He is teaching people from scratch, his job is different then other Shadhili shaykhs in the area. Better to be easy on the students, rather then scare them away. I remember when a classmate of mine took shahada, and someone in the masjid made a comment about how he prayed, which led him to leaving Islam. If anyone has questions about Sidi, let them direct it towards me, since I know him better then probably anyone else here.

I have defended my own shaykh, Mawlana Shaykh NAzim, many times on this forum, now I defend Sidi. Let's not forget, in reality, we dont know ANYTHING about awliya, most of us are raised in USA, Canada, we do not know how to act with awliya, how to understand them. You think the true salikin are sitting debating this stuff? Ma'salaama,

Lisan ul-Haq

[Lisanulhaq]

Assalamu Aleykum,

Thank you for the response, if the topic ever comes up with Sidi, I will let him know. We must understand that Sidi is a 70 year old man, I highly doubt he sits and reads websites or anything of the sort. The websites are probably arranged by the murids, so there's bound to be some mistakes, good that yuo pointed them out.

In regards to the healing, it probably just deals with the herbal healing methods Sidi has. He knows many ways of natural healing, perhaps hes passed it on to some murids, and they in turn are teaching it. Allahu alam, but in any case, I do know he's a true traditional Shadhili shaykh, has and will do a lot more inshaAllah. Ma'salaama,

Lisan ul-Haq

[al-Hanbali]

May Allah protect the Shaykh. Caution in who we take as Shuyukh of the path is the order of the day. I had no suspicions of the shaykh himself, but the site does raise questions-most of which were answered by Lisan al-Haqq.

I am still looking for the reference where the Imam and Sufi, Imam ash-Sha'rani said that no true Sufis and Shuyukh existed in his time and that he shows respect to the fake con artist Sufis, knowing they are fake, just so the common people would maintain respect for Tasawwuf.

By no means am in implying anything with that, but if imam ash-Sha'rani had that attitude in his time, then what about us?

[Mahmuwd]

http://www.suficenter.org/Community/index.html

They say that they are Shadhiliyah but they have pictures of women and other things that sound new-age. Whats up? Does any one here know about them?

In the name of Allah the Compassionate the Most Merciful.

I once approached Shaykh Nuh Keller with two books.

1) Love For Allah by Zulfiqar Ahmad Naqshbandi of the Naqshbandi-Mujaddidi tariqa.

2) Music of the Soul by Muhammad Al Jamal Al Rifai as Shadhili.

He told me it was ok for me to read the one by the Naqshbandi, and told me NOT to the read the one by the "Shadhili."

And Shaykh Nuh Keller is Shadhili.

And it is Allah alone who gives success.

[abdulmatin]

As-Salaamu alaykum.
All that glitters is not gold...In the interest of having a good opinion of Muslims, I believe that the shaykh of this "tariqa" is a Muslim who is sincerely trying to bring non-muslims to Islam via sufism. however, the murids have become the shaykh and there is very little shari'a going on here. i advise those who are seeking genuine tasawwuf to avoid this "tariqa" and similar tariqas with the names of awliya (i.e. shadhili)attached to them. this is what seperates Shaykh Nuh's tasawwuf from other would-be tariqas - total adherance and exhaltation of the command of Allah. wa billahi tawfiq...

[Travelleress]

By no means am in implying anything with that, but if imam ash-Sha'rani had that attitude in his time, then what about us?

Asalamu 'alaykum,

Shaykh Nuh said that when the 'Ulema say such a statement it is because

1) to warn the people that pretenders exist
2)to appraise of the dangers of straying from the principles of the path
3)to keep themselves and others from feeling complacent with their own states compared with those of the earlier generations.

Wasalam

[mkahmed01234]

Salamu Alaykum

Mawlana as-Sayyid Shaykh Nazim Kibrisi Effendi and Shaykh as-Sayyid Muhammad Jamal Effendi are not new age though their Khulafa (not Mawlana as-Sayyid Abdul Kerim an-Naqshbandi and Shaykh as-Sayyid Muhammad Hisham ) and Muqaddameen such as the man Ibrahim Jaffe might be new-age !!

Wasalamu Alaykum Wa Allah Amanat Olmuz

Muhammad Karam Ahmed
Colombo,Sri Lanka

[sahih-baba]

salam,

1 thing is for certain: this is not doing much to clean up the image of tasawwuf among muslims.

if ppl of tasawwuf want to win other muslims over and bridge this natural gap between pseudosufism and hardcore salafism, then it would be better not to have such photos of women and any affiliation with non-muslim spiritual healing and other garbage.

can't have everything - you want to please non-muslims, then muslims are not going to be happy.

no disrespect to the shaykh intended.

[sufisticated]

:salam:

something the shadhili's are 'traditionally' known for is there following of the shari'a. which is why they have great men of tasawwuf AND shari'a at the same time, such as Imam Abu'l Hasan al-Shadhili, Imam ibn Ata'illah, Sidi Ahmad Zarruq in particular - and in our times, Shaykh Nuh and Shaykh Muhammad al-Ya'qoubi. if you listen to either one of these contemporary shuyukh, the importance of abiding by the shari'a is the primary concern.

as a consequence, you will generally find that neither of them appear to compromise on matters of the deen, neither do they appear apologetic about integral parts of our deen, in the name of dawah. in their gatherings, segregation is of utmost importance - shaykh Nuh even prefers that the sisters wear niqab when in his presence (please correct me if i am wrong). and shaykh Muhammad is also scrupulous when it comes to matters of segregation.

There is no tasawwuf without shari'a, dawah or no dawah. if people are new to the deen, they need to be taught fiqh and aqeeda primarily and the importance of following it strictly. this should be the emphasis - of course, at the same time understanding the importance of tazkiyah.

all credit to the deobandis, who in my opinion have preserved authentic tasawwuf like the shadhilis - this is plain to see from their books.

:ws:

[hakim.rh]

As-salaamu alaykum,
This is my first post on this forum.

I took bayah with Sidi Shaykh Muhammad al-Jamal in September and made shahada at the same time. I am a muslim and a murid of Sidi, and a member of tariqa Shadhuliyya. My warmest regards to those here who have risen to the defense of my beloved shaykh. To the others here, i feel rather insulted and unwelcome.

I don't have much more to say than that. May God guide us all to the straight path.

[sahih-baba]

As-salaamu alaykum,
This is my first post on this forum.

I took bayah with Sidi Shaykh Muhammad al-Jamal in September and made shahada at the same time. I am a muslim and a murid of Sidi, and a member of tariqa Shadhuliyya. My warmest regards to those here who have risen to the defense of my beloved shaykh. To the others here, i feel rather insulted and unwelcome.

I don't have much more to say than that. May God guide us all to the straight path.

salam
masha allah, may allah guide you closer to him.
i think the main problem ppl had here was the website, not the shaykh.
and as i was saying before, tariqas (and sufi shaykhs) get a bad name when this sort of thing is seen - like free-mixing, women without proper hijab, non-muslim involvement and the likes.
so you have this on one hand and the hardcore salafis on the other.

the truth -real tasawwuf- lies in the middle.
wassalam

[hakim.rh]

As-salaamu alaykum,

Am i to assume that some people here feel they know better than a shaykh of such station how he should get and keep his murids? Is this not being disrespectful?

The tariqa gets a bad name among whom? Wahhabis? Takfiris? Who cares what they think? They will continue to criticize our shuyukh no matter what we do. IMHO we should be careful that preoccupation with them not lead to imitation of them.

And the involvement of non-muslims, the healing school, etc, helps to put food in the bellies of hungry Palestinian children and to work for peace in Al-Quds. People who would never have approached Islam with a ten-foot pole are making salawat, paying zakat, etc. I believe this is a bigger concern for the shaykh than the opinions of others.

May God forgive any errors i have made. And God knows best.

wassalaam

[sahih-baba]

As-salaamu alaykum,

Am i to assume that some people here feel they know better than a shaykh of such station how he should get and keep his murids? Is this not being disrespectful?

The tariqa gets a bad name among whom? Wahhabis? Takfiris? Who cares what they think? They will continue to criticize our shuyukh no matter what we do. IMHO we should be careful that preoccupation with them not lead to imitation of them.

And the involvement of non-muslims, the healing school, etc, helps to put food in the bellies of hungry Palestinian children and to work for peace in Al-Quds. People who would never have approached Islam with a ten-foot pole are making salawat, paying zakat, etc. I believe this is a bigger concern for the shaykh than the opinions of others.

May God forgive any errors i have made. And God knows best.

wassalaam

you are right, who cares what wahhabis think, provided the shari'a is not compromised.

[if0rg0t]

Ok I spoke to my friend he said:

He partly agrees with you. He said the murids are still learning and Sidi does not want to scare them away though.


Perhaps the objections people have raised were not specific enough. They were probably not refering to 'new' murids who may be scared away by strict application of Shariah etc ... Rather, murids who are leaders 'of the highest rank within the Shadhiliyya Sufi order', and who 'live in the heart of God' such as:
http://www.sufiuniversity.org/About/nura_laird.php
http://www.sufiuniversity.org/About/sukaynah_joyan.php
http://www.sufiuniversity.org/About/john_laird.php
http://www.sufiuniversity.org/About/maxine_adelstein.php
http://www.sufiuniversity.org/About/barbara_cotten.php

If you look at their bio's, their qualification as a Sufi master within the Tariqa, and as a master healer are different.

After such things are written on that website, what would the average person understand regarding their tariqa? I'm a bit confused.

[hakim.rh]

Brother

I am not an official spokeperson for the healing school nor for the tariqa; i can only give you my view as a murid.



If you look at their bio's, their qualification as a Sufi master within the Tariqa, and as a master healer are different.

After such things are written on that website, what would the average person understand regarding their tariqa? I'm a bit confused.

The healing school and the tariqa are separate things. Perhaps any discrepancy in qualifications are due to that. I'm not enrolled in the healing school but i am in the tariqa.

What would the average person understand? It seems to me that one would likely see the healing school as an open environment in which to develop spiritually. The tariqa is pretty open too.

So, yes, it is absolutely less strict than Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's tariqa. The shaykh is very clear in his writings and his talks about the need for murids to follow shariah but it is not strictly enforced; it would seem to be more an individual decision.

As an aside, my shaykh recommends "Reliance of the Traveller" for any murid who wants to know about fiqh. I got a copy and began to study it based on his advice.

I want to emphasize again that i do not speak for the shaykh or the tariqa but only for myself. May Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala forgive me any errors. Wallahu 'alam.

[if0rg0t]

The healing school and the tariqa are separate things. Perhaps any discrepancy in qualifications are due to that. I'm not enrolled in the healing school but i am in the tariqa.


I'm sorry, but it clearly says in the descriptions that they are high ranking leaders within the Shadhilyya Sufi Order (i.e. tariqa), and then it additionally talks about their healing powers thru their supposed Godly connection.

[hakim.rh]

no need to shout brother. maybe i'm not understanding your question.

i understood it to be about discrepancy between their rank in the tariqa and whether or not their bio said they were "master healers" which i'm assuming is a separate thing pertaining to the healing school. perhaps i misunderstood.

in any case, i sense that there's not much point in discussing this any further. read the tariqa's website, draw your own conclusions. contact the school or the tariqa through their website if you have any questions or constructive criticism.

wasalaam.

[if0rg0t]

no need to shout brother. maybe i'm not understanding your question.


I'm sorry if it came out as being rude, but I wanted to emphasize that the website claims that they are high ranking leaders within the Tariqa (aside from them being 'healers'). If that is true, then the tariqa is a fake (which it seemingly is not, from the numerous replies in this thread). If it is not true, then they should remove those statements from the biographies .. as it clearly states that they are leaders in the tariqa.

What should I understand from the website when it says that these persons are leaders of the highest rank in the Shadhilliya Sufi Order?

[lumumba_s]

As salamu `alaykum,
So, yes, it is absolutely less strict than Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's tariqa. The shaykh is very clear in his writings and his talks about the need for murids to follow shariah but it is not strictly enforced; it would seem to be more an individual decision.Are you saying that following the shari'ah is option in his tarbiyah?

[if0rg0t]

As salamu `alaykum,Are you saying that following the shari'ah is option in his tarbiyah?

This is not the disturbing thing. Perhaps a teacher could be a bit lax at the start. I mean, you can't really force anyone to do stuff. This is okay as long as those who don't practice the Shariah don't progress in the tariqa and don't eventually become leaders of any significance.

[sahih-baba]

I'm sorry if it came out as being rude, but I wanted to emphasize that the website claims that they are high ranking leaders within the Tariqa (aside from them being 'healers'). If that is true, then the tariqa is a fake (which it seemingly is not, from the numerous replies in this thread). If it is not true, then they should remove those statements from the biographies .. as it clearly states that they are leaders in the tariqa.

What should I understand from the website when it says that these persons are leaders of the highest rank in the Shadhilliya Sufi Order?

you should understand that they are pretenders and have nothing to do with the shadhiliyya.;)

[Habib1968]

Salam alaikoum ;

what I find disturbing is to see people who are muqqadem not wearing the hijab ; I mean that this is not optionnal ; I can understand that this is taking time and that there are people who have difficulties with this part of the sharia but as muqqadem you are responsable for other people and you have to give a certain image . I know people from another tariqa where some women are muqqadem without wearing the hijab ; the other ladies who follow them really don't have the feeling that the hijab is a part of the sharia but that it is more something like cultural .


Salam alaikoum

[hakim.rh]

As salamu `alaykum,Are you saying that following the shari'ah is option in his tarbiyah?

Wa'alaykum as-salaam,

Every writing of the shaykh i have read and every one of the shaykh's talks i have attended has included his view on the need to follow shari'ah. My observation as a murid is that the following of shari'ah is encouraged but not forced on murids.

In salat, women pray behind the men, and in dhikr men and women are separated into their own circles. All of the practices on the suficenter website (salat, wird, wazifah, etc) are the practices we are instructed in.

wa salaam

[hakim.rh]

Assalamu Aleykum,

I know Sidi Muhammad al-Jamal personally. I happen to know that he becamse hafidh of the qur'an at the age of 7, and finished the memorization of Bukhari and Muslim by the age of 15. He is a charismatic shaykh, mashaAllah, and knows awliya from all over the world, and they all know him.

He knows MAwlana Shaykh Nazim, HAbib Umar bin Hafidh, Sidi Hazem Ghazala, and many more. I have done hadhra with him, and left with a nur and baraka that I can't describe. Sidi is VERY shariah oriented, his murids are new, and he is bringing them gradually into the way.

You have to keep in mind, that the murids only have the shaykh, he has no real khalifa here to teach them on a full time basis. This past year, Sidi got more tight on the shariah, leading a few murids to leave him. I was personally sitting with him, when a lady came to him and tried to put a twist on sufism making it like buddhism, and his answer was phenomenal, he shut her up quick and easy.

In his few years coming to the USA, he has converted probably well over 1,000 whites, some of them, if you see, have big beards, hijabs, and follow the sunnah tightly. Some, are more hippy types, slowly changing, coming from backgrounds like being heroine addicts and potheads.

He is teaching people from scratch, his job is different then other Shadhili shaykhs in the area. Better to be easy on the students, rather then scare them away. I remember when a classmate of mine took shahada, and someone in the masjid made a comment about how he prayed, which led him to leaving Islam. If anyone has questions about Sidi, let them direct it towards me, since I know him better then probably anyone else here.

I have defended my own shaykh, Mawlana Shaykh NAzim, many times on this forum, now I defend Sidi. Let's not forget, in reality, we dont know ANYTHING about awliya, most of us are raised in USA, Canada, we do not know how to act with awliya, how to understand them. You think the true salikin are sitting debating this stuff? Ma'salaama,

Lisan ul-Haq

This describes my experience pretty well.

I feel that Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala has guided me to Sidi, he is my shaykh and i refuse to be ashamed. I turned away from a lot of destructive things because of my involvement with the tariqa. I'm making salat, sawm, zakat, reading up on fiqh because of my involvement with the tariqa. As i've said before, others i know who were pretty well scared of muslims and would never have considered Islam as a path are coming to dhikr.

I don't know what the criteria for promotion in the tariqa is; frankly i don't really let it bother me. I'm in it to study with Sidi, and all the activities i've been to are centered around that.

Again, i'm just a murid and i don't represent any views other than my own.

wa salaam

[salman]

salamu `alaykum

All of you would be very surprised reading the incidents Maulana Ashraf `Ali Thanawi relates regarding shuyukh *allowing* some of their murids to do specific acts deemed (minorly) sinful.

He says, "And whoever knows the reality of the situatuion will have no objection on these shuyukh. Many of these objections are only because one does not know the reality."

So, we should be very careful in what we say about these scholars.

Wasalam

[lumumba_s]

I was just asking a question. There is a difference between a shaykh not excepting the beginners to have perfect submission to the shari'ah and the shari'ah being an "optional" practice.
This is okay as long as those who don't practice the Shariah don't progress in the tariqaIbn al-Arabi had some harsh words to say about someone who claimed to have attained, but was remiss in the shari'ah. I think "zindiq" is the word that he used to describe them. There is no such thing as progress in the tariqa without practicing the shari'ah. "The shari'ah and the haqiqah are One." And nothing else needs to be said.

[Salim]

As others already mentioned the Shaykh strictly follows the sharia and asks his followers to do the same. I don't know what more needs to be said on the subject. Here is a direct quote from Shaykh Muhmmad al-Jamal to clear all doubts:


In the beginning, the shari’a is the chariot. It is necessary to get into this vehicle to begin to travel, but in and of itself, the exoteric law cannot carry one across all the seas. The law is, nevertheless, necessary for the protection of the surrender (al-islam). It is like the bark which protects the holy tree. Without the bark, the tree could not live, for the sap of its essence would run out and be lost.

Source: In God is the Pure Religion (http://www.sufimaster.org/teachings/godrel.htm)

Now can everyone just leave this discussion alone, at least in a public forum like this?

[lumumba_s]

and asks his followers to do the same.That is not what is understood when someone says that following the shari'ah seems to be left up to the individual, as a decision. That is all I was asking about, what others said has nothing to do with me. If that particular addendum to the explanation was a poor choice of words, then okay. What you just quoted is more than enough to clarify.

[hakim.rh]

As-salaamu 'alaykum


That is not what is understood when someone says that following the shari'ah seems to be left up to the individual, as a decision. That is all I was asking about, what others said has nothing to do with me. If that particular addendum to the explanation was a poor choice of words, then okay. What you just quoted is more than enough to clarify.

Brother Lumumba originally posed his question when i had written


Originally Posted by hakim.rh
So, yes, it is absolutely less strict than Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's tariqa. The shaykh is very clear in his writings and his talks about the need for murids to follow shariah but it is not strictly enforced; it would seem to be more an individual decision.

Yes, perhaps it was a poor choice of words. Maybe i should have stopped at the semicolon. May God forgive my errors.

Please forgive my emphasis here, i don't mean to shout but i want to make sure this is very very clear:
Sidi does, as i have said repeatedly, in all of his writings and talks of which i am aware, emphasize the need to follow shari'ah. I have never read or heard from him that it is an "option" or "optional".

But as someone said earlier, you can't force someone to follow shari'ah. Even getting out of bed and praying fajr is an individual decision. Nobody told me i need to grow a beard to stay in the tariqa, it was an individual decision. Nobody required that i buy and read "Reliance of the Traveller", it was an individual decision. There is no coercion involved in any of the practices. That's what i meant.

Brother, i'm trying to be clear here, not argumentative. Internet communication is often a hazardous undertaking. I hope there is no more misunderstanding.

wa salaam

[if0rg0t]

So, we should be very careful in what we say about these scholars.


I was merely questioning how do people who do not practice the Shariah become highly ranked leaders in the 'Shadhilliya Sufi Order'? Shaykh Jamal and his writings may be fantastic .. but what conclusions would a person draw when he observes the aforementioned?

[salman]

I was merely questioning how do people who do not practice the Shariah become highly ranked leaders in the 'Shadhilliya Sufi Order'? Shaykh Jamal and his writings may be fantastic .. but what conclusions would a person draw when he observes the aforementioned?

salamu `alaykum

In the tariqa of Hakimul Ummah, the shaykh is not judged by his murids nor his muqadams nor his khulafa. Rather, Maulana Thanawi is quite clear that ijaza in tasawwuf is even given out to those who are not kamil for a number of reasons, among them the fact that the teacher sees in the student some capability and thus gives him ijaza as a "boost" factor.

Whether or not the person turns out to be some kamil wali is not the fault of the shaykh. There have been khulafa in the past, says Maulana Thanawi, that became open fasiqs and people of innovation.

I'm just excercising some husn al dhann and not casting any aspersion on the Shaykh or his path.

Wasalam
Salman