Mawlana Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani on Sufism and Shari`ah

[Omar HH]

http://uksufi.co.uk/Downloads/Shaykh_Nazim_The_Enemy.mp3

:salam:

A good talk by Shaykh Nazim answering questions about people saying Sufis are against the Shari`ah. Someone asked him "they say Sufis do alot of bid`ah" and he said "What is bid`ah" and the man asked him "they pray too much" and Shaykh Nazim responds "for what have we been created?"

:jazak:

[PersianPaladin]

Follow him at your peril.

[Omar HH]

Follow him at your peril.

May Allah forgive and guide you.

Please close this thread too then.

[PersianPaladin]

May Allah forgive Shaykh Nazim and Hisham for their deviancy and protect people from his ignorance.

Amin.

[Muawiyah]

Aren't you the guy with the tantric website? If so I can't see on what basis you're attacking the haqqanis, your own ideas don't seem to be very orthodox?

[Muawiyah]

re-opened

[PersianPaladin]

Aren't you the guy with the tantric website? If so I can't see on what basis you're attacking the haqqanis, your own ideas don't seem to be very orthodox?

When a man loves a woman, he seeks union with her, that is to say the most complete union possible in love, and there is in the elemental sphere no greater union than that between the sexes. [Man's] contemplation of the Reality in woman is the most complete and perfect. . . . Contemplation of the Reality without formal support is not possible. . . . Since, therefore, some form of support is necessary, the best and most perfect kind is the contemplation of God in woman. The greatest union is that between man and woman (Ibn al-`Arabi, 1980: 274-5).

And yes i agree, this side of Islamic mysticism can easily be misunderstood and misinterpreted by tantrics and sexualists. May Allah guide them.

[hassan roberto hrvat]

are they any muslim sexualist o tantrics? i like to study this way of knowledge

[PersianPaladin]

are they any muslim sexualist o tantrics? i like to study this way of knowledge

No, such a way is contrary to Islam.

[Ansari]

Also brother PersianPaladin, which qualified sufi shaykh allows handshaking with non-mahram women? (an act you defended on another thread)

[PersianPaladin]

Dear brother Persianpaladin (may Allah guide you to the right path), with all my due respect to you I have to say thing in order to warn people of your ignorance.

1. you have no mazhab in figh!
2. you no longer have a sufi teacher and practice Sufism on your own
3. you can not differentiate between experiences in Islamic Sufism and Sufism in other religions
4. you cannot differentiate between experiences on the path
5. you cannot use any of the wordings of Sufism in order to describe anything of benefit. Such as you cannot tell the difference between the ‘ego’ and the ‘mind’.
6. you criticise sheikhs saying they are ‘ignorant’ when you lack both knowledge and authority to do so.
7. you introduce sufi concepts that you yourself have no proper understanding of, and just read of a book.
8. you tried to teach Sufism and explain details in it when you have no correct knowledge, proper understanding of it nor permission from a sheikh to do so.
9. you think Ibn Arabi (gadas Allah serahu) is misunderstood, just because you read his works and they seem to agree to your own ‘personal believes’ which clearly shows how ‘immature’ you are in spirituality and ignorant in aqida, which if you follow proper sufi manners would mean that you be quiet and try to learn, and not assume a role of teaching.

I know this might be harsh, but sorry, we no longer tolerate ignorant people assuming knowledge about God, and then using it to confuse and deviate His slaves from the right path, as well as giving a bad image of Sufism that many are trying to correct. Proper Sufis and ‘Men’ on the path such as hallaj died in order to preserve the deen, after recognising how their speeches at ignorant times (intoxicated and lacked in aql) jeopardised it, and if you claim any associating to them then I suggest that you keep quite and search for an aqida teacher for you are desperately inneed of one. And I have read that you have a website as well, my adice to you is to stop writing and delete all you have written in particular in this forum, and if you don’t do so, then i ask one of the moderators to kindly do.

Majdoba


1. I am not talking about fiqh
2. I have been given permission to teach by my shaykh
3. There is only one Sufism
4. What evidence do u have of this? I have given very suitable distinctions.
5. The ego and the mind are one and the same. When the mind is not active, there is no ego.
6. I do not normally go about criticizing shaykh's, but this particular shaykh has caused damage to my own shaykh and community so i have every right to warn people of his deviation. They, however, have every right to ignore me if they see fit.
7. Have u heard of references?
8. That is your assumption.
9. Why on earth do you presume that Ibn Arabi lacked 'aql? Perhaps it is just too much for your understanding?

You are obviously threatened by my seemingly 'different' points of view. Not very democratic forum is it?

[Omar HH]

Also brother PersianPaladin, which qualified sufi shaykh allows handshaking with non-mahram women? (an act you defended on another thread)

Actually throughout history *some* true Sufi Shaykhs did do this because they interpreted the ayat about bay`ah wrong.

You might not believe me but it is the truth.

:jazak:

[PersianPaladin]

As for handshaking...there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is in the context of work\profession and that you and the woman are not alone. It is the intention that counts.

[Ansari]

Actually throughout history *some* true Sufi Shaykhs did do this because they interpreted the ayat about bay`ah wrong.

You might not believe me but it is the truth.

:jazak:
Who where these sufi shaykhs then? How many? And even if this is the case, then what have traditional ulama said about them?

[hassan roberto hrvat]

Salam aleikum to dear sister majdoba and to brother's persianpaladin and omar hh . Sister and brother's let's love each other , we can , we must exchange our view's with love ,tolerance ,compassion. nobody is perfect and in everybody there are beautyfull aspect's and noor. we are muslim's ,we are brother's and sister's. Love ,love ,love .Even we ha difference , even someone offended us o make big mistakes.Let's try do be sweet :cheesygri with each other. When some non muslim o non sufi read our discussion's than it can come out a image of a comunity who only wait the occasion to jump each other on the troath. I'm the first of the ignorant's , the proud and the bad ones . May Allah forgive me.

[PersianPaladin]

A distinction between Nafs and Ruh
-----------------------------------------------

Every human being has a Spirit (Ruh). And this spirit knows perfection, it is in perfect knowledge of Islam and of Allah.
Therefore every person; deep down - is the perfect Muslim....because the Ruh knows Islam.....which is basically, the natural state of things. The verses of Quran and the Names of Allah are simply the keys that unlock the Nafs’ ability to connect with the Ruh. The Quran is inside and within the Ruh – but not in the form of words (but rather, in the form of reflection and action). The nafs needs to be told and initiated into the guidance of the Ruh by having the Ruh’s Perfection translated in the best and most pure manner possible – via words. The Arabic words of the Quran are the best translation and encapsulation of the indescribable essence of the Ruh’s Truth. The Ruh is all about action; all it does is reflect Perfection – it does not need words or meditations to initiate its actions or understanding. The nafs, however; being limited – needs things it can understand and hence words, mantras and breathing are used to help it understand the Ruh as much as the individual can handle - and connect to it on a discernible level.

The only thing between a person and perfect Islam – is indeed the Nafs. The Nafs is the animal soul - and hence the animal drives, the emotional mind, and the self-reflective mind. It is the mind and the animal desires that cover-up the Ruh and hence affect the degree of someone's inner understanding of Islam, their state of Islamic consciousness and their degree of spirituality and balance. The Nafs is not a power of its own. It is fuelled by the Ruh, and uses its energy. The Nafs has no essential existence; and is merely the result of the human usage of Spirit-energy in powering the mind, the brain, and the animal desires.

The nafs acts as an abstract, self-constricted cover to the Ruh. A good example would be that the nafs be a veil of cloud (of varying thickness according to the degree of spirituality\kufr) over the much brighter Ruh. If the nafs is purified, polished, and cleaned to a sufficient degree - then the reality of its none-essential reality is known - and it is seen as an island of self-specific truth floating on a sea of timeless UnityTruth (or Ruh).

The aim of the true nafs is for individual personality - in terms of spiritual constitution (i.e how far one is capable of going spiritually in terms of understanding\knowledge, and in realisation of love, practices, etc) as well as subtle traits and characteristics. In this case - it allows enough light of the Ruh to shine through and hence the nafs is not conflicting with the Ruh or abusing its energy - it is living in balance.

But if the nafs becomes selfish; if it lives in the world of emotionality or the storms of the mind, excessive animalism, excessive spiritual agitation and so forth – it is seen to abuse the Ruh's energy, constrict it, as well as cover it up. Kufr is formed, and the natural state of the person's Islamic nature - is covered.

All people are Muslim. All that distinguishes us is the degree in which we cover up the Ruh. Practising Islam and spirituality is a process of uncovering, reverting, and cleansing. It is a process of removing agitation, complexity and conflict - and recovering our lost innocence. The Quran, Prophets, and things in the world are all signs and seeds\agents which help to remind us of the True Reality that we all reflect\mirror deep down. We don't go and 'get' that reality or learn it from a book, or own it.

[PersianPaladin]

As for true love. I wrote this poem: -

Love Gnosis
---------------

Love is like a shallow beck.

A healthy depth, but not heavy or deep.
A swift current, but not too agitated with
Raging torrents of desire.
Laden with stone, but not pulverised
By rocks and boulders.
Nor is it muddy with the dirt,
Of the fast, agitated torrent.

It is fed at the highest heights,
But it is found at the lowlands.

It lies at the bottom of life,
But moves fast enough not
To become stale.

It is pure balance, pure dynamism,
Pure clarity.

It is the hidden stream,
The stream of balance.
Lying between the heights,
And the floodplain.

It is the shallow beck that crosses
Through fields and woodlands,
Where people cross through,
But of it – they seldom see.

It is rare indeed.

[Omar HH]

Who where these sufi shaykhs then? How many? And even if this is the case, then what have traditional ulama said about them?

It's the INCORRECT view is what `Ullema have said. The popular opinions of all four madhabs say that it is haram. Nevertheless there is no absolute ijm`a that touching the opposite sex without desire is haram - and this is proven from secondary and primary sources (although there is no ijm`a - it is haram and do not try to use my next words as an excuse in any way shape or form for shaking hands - I am free of you people):

Historical Sources:

When Islam came to Maghrib there used to be a greeting between others called "palm taps"

Unrelated men and women occasionally would do "palm taps" which consisted with a "hi five" sort of deal for less than a second. When Islam came to Maghrib the `Ullema did not prohibit this practice.

Secondary Sources:

The three books which list the ijm`a of the Din - al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah by Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi, Bidiyat al-Mujtahid wa Nihayat al-Muqtasid by Ibn Rushd, and al-Mughni by Ibn Qudama do not list it as an ijm`a act.

Primary Sources:
For this to be considered an ijm`a act then those who claim that touching the opposite sex is agreed upon should produce:

Even one verse of the Qur'an which directly prohibits this in all forms (not sensual caressing or kissing but non-sexual touching of the opposite sex),

Even one Sahih Mutawatir hadith which directly prohibits this in all forms.

People who research this will find - what the `Ullema have stated - which is that the only hadith which ban non-sensual touching of non-mahrams are not sahih or not mutatatir or unclear and undetailed in their wording.

If you do research you will see that some Tassawuf Shaykhs in the minority who did bay`ah to women did this by *lightly clasping their hands* and they did this by:

(1) Misinterpreting the hadith which deal with the Prophet giving bay`ah to women (which again say the exact opposite actually).

(2) Misinterpreting the verse in the Qur'an such as in Surat al-Mumtahinah which deal with the Prophet giving bay`ah to women.

I do not know the actual names of the Sufi Shaykhs whom gave bay`ah to women like this. When all is said and done though the important thing is that the popular opinions of all four madhabs and the overwhelming majority of scholars (basically except those Tassawuf scholars who made the error of misinterpreting the Qur'anic ayat) it is haram to touch non-Mahrams of the opposite sex even without desire. When Shaykh Abuqanit al-Sharif al-Hassani was asked about this he said:

This is the ideal that one strives for and if one falls short he asks for forgiveness. This is better than finding some obscure ruling to justify one's actions

Therefore it is clear that it is haram to touch the opposite sex even without desire - yet some Tassawuf Shaykhs whom were upright made the mistake of giving bay`ah by touching the opposite sex through misinterpretation of the Qur'anic Ayat - and there is no ijm`a on this so one may not condemn them yet one should not follow in their example because we follow the overwhelming majority of scholars whom believe that they made a *mistake* by doing this. And Allah knows best.

:jazak:

[hassan roberto hrvat]

salam aleikum. yes there are shaykh's who touch the hand's of women i see it with my eyes. i even was present when a shaykh take off the hijab of the head of a muslim girl , because he don't like that she suffer and have to do with hardship's at her home and in his family and enviroment of work.For me this people a wrong ,very wrong . The first was of tariqa naqshbandiya ,the second was of tariqa rifai'a. i spoke in very kind way making a honest critic about such thing's but i was attacked with various insult's and pseudoargument's by the mureed's of this sufi master's. so we see that in this thread two naqshbandi shaykh's curse each other. excuse me brother's and sister's: i don't see any need to submit myself in my life to such kind of people. it is "group" mentality and personality cult blindness that is very similar to the psichology of totalitarian regime's.now i understand why we muslim's have only dictator's and tyrant's in our country's and no freedom and respect for individuality.whe are alway's searching a "strong man" to whom we can be blind slaves. sufi master's can be good ,but today most of this people are "shopkeepers" who collect follower's to make more powerfull the group they are leading. as for shaykh nazim , i know many of his follower's who don't even know the basic's of islam ,many of them don't respect the sharia. but they sell themselves as sufi's and have pictures of the shaykh hanging around on the wall's. shaykh nazim and shaykh kabbani touch the hand of women and the women's kiss them the hand. one of my friend 's, she is a german girl ,ex follower of the sect of nazim , told me many detail's. she is now searching a new shaykh.i don't say nothing against shaykh nazim as man ,as muslim ,as sufi master ,no. i don't have the right to judge him.but his mureed's , many of them , have generally a very low quality in different field's of islam and sharia. so what's the need for a shaykh to collecting bayyat's around the world and then not follow in the right way such amount of people. i know for sure some very strange and haram's thing's but i will not tell you anything about it. the only thing i like to say : may Allah bless our brother in Islam Mawlana Shaykh Nazim , he is sure 10.000 time's better than me. but i will not tell to anybody that it is clever thing , when you search a sufi master , to became mureed of the tariqa of shaykh nazim.

[Abu Suliman]

Subahn'Allah it is sad because of some fake sufies the whole concept of tasawuf gets a bad image.
a true shaykh is the one who follows the sunnah and sharia if he does not then no matter who he is or how many mureeds he has it does not make him above the sharia.

[PersianPaladin]

Subahn'Allah it is sad because of some fake sufies the whole concept of tasawuf gets a bad image.
a true shaykh is the one who follows the sunnah and sharia if he does not then no matter who he is or how many mureeds he has it does not make him above the sharia.

Very true.

[Omar HH]

Yes Majdoba. Finally someone confirms what I said. Yes also the scholars in Morocco long ago did not prohibit "palm taps." And you do have some Sufi shaykhs which did do bay`ah by clasping hands. This is not according to the mashhur though - but just pointing it out.

[Omar HH]

Ma Sha Allah,

Do you have any Arabic works, or can you write us anything special you learned about tassawuf for our Maliki Fiqh Group?

:jazak:

[hassan roberto hrvat]

wow majdoba !!! your post's are very beautyfull.Tollerance and open mindness is ,in my poor opinion , a part of authentic marifa. [clip]