EDITORIAL: "Danish Cartoons: Islam vs. Freedom of Expression?" [Archive] - sunniforum.com - a resource for the propagation of authentic Islamic teachings

eat-halal guy

03-02-2006, 06:30 AM

Danish Cartoons: Islam vs. Freedom of Expression?

Sikander Ziad Hashmi, sunniforum.com

Cartoons are doing what so many couldn’t: Unifying Muslims across the globe.

On the other hand, a growing number of brave freedom-fighters, led by journalists, are standing up to “reaffirm the principle of free expression.” And non-Muslims are wondering why this unified outrage is a no-show when it comes to seemingly more important issues such as beheadings, honour killings, and suicide bombings.

As a Muslim journalist, that puts me in a tough spot, doesn’t it?

Well, not really.

Let’s get the facts straight. What exactly is the issue?

The Danish paper Jyllands-Posten printed a total of 12 cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad :saw: last September, one showing him wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb with the kalimah inscribed on it, while another had him saying that paradise is running short of virgins for suicide bombers. A Norwegian publication reprinted the caricatures in January and publications in at least four other countries jumped on the bandwagon in the last couple of days to express their support for the principle of free expression.

Muslim outrage has spurred protests, kidnapping and death threats, boycotts of Danish products, and diplomatic spats. Danish dairy firm Arla Foods has announced 125 layoffs as a result of the boycott; national leaders have jumped into the foray, and even U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has issued a statement in an attempt to cool the growing crisis. Editors have been sacked in what’s seen to be an attack on editorial independence.

Media reports are quick to point out that Islamic traditions ban depictions of the Prophet. Thus, the understanding is that the outrage has been caused by the seemingly blatant disregard for this “Islamic taboo” by the publications in question, which is why Reporters Without Borders and other journalists and non-journalists alike are resisting, if not fighting, this wave of rage.

I’m pretty sure many outraged Muslims will also point to that as the source of their outrage.

But I ask: Would Muslims express an equal amount of outrage had the Prophet :saw: been shown in a positive light based on his teachings, perhaps instructing a would-be terrorist not to kill innocents?

Probably not. Yes, there might have been some disappointment over the depiction of the Prophet, but it wouldn’t be anywhere near what we’re seeing now.

Thus, the main issue here isn’t the depiction of the Prophet, but rather, the depiction of the Prophet in an incorrect and dishonest manner.

As a journalist, I truly value our freedom of expression and as my colleagues on this message board know, I attempt to stand by that principle whenever possible.

We all know that the right to free speech is an integral element of a democratic society. Those of us living in democratic societies enjoy that right on a daily basis.

However, no right is absolute. There are always limitations and exceptions.

I can express myself by screaming, for as long as I wish, but not to the detriment of my neighbours. Similarly, I can publish whatever I want, as long as I don’t tarnish anyone’s reputation by spreading lies or promote hatred against anyone.

I can even publicly express damaging, unflattering comments about someone, as long as they’re in the public interest and I don’t do it with malice.

The cartoons of the Prophet :saw:, especially the one with his headdress shaped like a bomb, can be given three general interpretations in today’s context:

a) He was a terrorist.
b) He supported terrorism.
c) Islam is a religion of terrorism, since he symbolizes the religion

Anyone who is familiar with the life and the teachings of the Prophet :saw: knows that he was not a terrorist. There is no such thing as a terrorist Prophet and if there was, it would mean he and his followers would live to terrorize others, which we know is certainly not the case.

Yes, he did lead and fight in battles. But since when did fighting wars become terrorism? If that’s the case, any leader that takes his nation to war should be considered a terrorist.

As for the second interpretation, once again, anyone who is familiar with the teachings of the Prophet :saw: knows that he did not support terrorism. He forbade the killing of innocents and even ordered his followers not to kill birds and other living creatures unnecessarily. And even though the Makkans had terrorized him and his followers, he did not retort with the same when he conquered Makkah later on, nor did he let any of the followers terrorize anyone either, even as victors.

As for the last possible interpretation, once again, if anyone studies the teachings of Allah and the Prophet Mohammad :saw: in their entirety, they will know that Islam is not a religion of terrorism. It’s just not true. Yes, there are groups and individuals who attempt to justify acts of terrorism through Islam, but that does not mean that Islam is a religion of terrorism. If it was a religion of terrorism, Muslims throughout history would have been terrorists, which just isn’t the case.

Therefore, we can conclude that if the cartoons are interpreted as a) and b), they are slanderous and libelous, or if they’re interpreted as c), they promote hate by branding all followers of Islam as terrorists, and since no one likes terrorists, people will naturally be led to hate Muslims.

This issue is not about Muslims hating freedom of expression. Rather, it is about the abuse of the freedom to spread hate and fuel stereotypes.

There is no doubt that the cartoons were originally published with malice and spite, to spread stereotypes and provoke a group that has already been victimized as a whole for the actions of a few.

But that’s not the only reason for the outrage.

The level of love and sentimental attachment many Muslims have for and with Mohammad :saw: is unparalleled, and may in fact be very difficult to comprehend for non-Muslims.

Think of your dead parents or grandparents that you loved dearly. If someone were to slander them publicly and make a mockery of them, how would you feel? Would you not react angrily and defend them?

You probably would, except the chances of anyone paying attention may be slim, since you would be alone, or perhaps have the support of a dozen or two people.

For Muslims, their beloved prophet has been slandered and mocked. He is not here to defend himself, so his followers have taken on the task, out of their love and devotion to him.

What we see now is the result of compounded anger, which isn’t always expressed in the wisest manner, especially when emotions are running high.

The issue of incorrect attribution is an important one. If Osama bin Laden was the subject of the cartoons, hardly anyone would complain.

Thus, it must be understood that Muslims are not attacking freedom of expression. Rather, they are reacting to hateful, mean-spirited distortions.

As for the question about why Muslims are so sensitive about cartoons while they don’t speak out against other seemingly important issues, the fact is that these cartoons of the Prophet :saw: have struck a common, emotional nerve across the Muslim world, while unfortunately, there is no unanimous agreement on the other issues, with which some Muslims obviously do not have a problem since they take part in or support those actions, such as beheadings, honour killings and suicide bombings. It doesn’t make it right, but that’s the reason behind the muted or disjointed response.

Some have complained about the boycotts in response to the cartoons. What’s wrong with Muslims exercising their freedom of choice? Boycotting is a common tactic for expressing displeasure, even if it doesn't directly affect those at the root of the displeasure.

In fact, in 2004, a group of Americans residing across the border from the Canadian town of Nelson, British Columbia threatened to boycott the town if it went ahead with the construction of a monument to U.S. Vietnam War draft dodgers. The construction of the monument was a form of expression, yet the town was threatened with severe economic repercussions if it had gone ahead with the construction of the monument. It didn’t.

Publishing and protesting are both forms of expression, and they must both be exercised within reasonable limits.

Muslims deserve an apology. And they seriously need to learn how to contain their emotions and express their displeasure using non-violent means.

But as long as the incorrect analysis of the issue as a “freedom of expression vs. Islamic stigma” battle remains, I'm afraid the vicious cycle of publications and protests, and more protests and more publications, will continue.

editor@sunniforum.com

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faqir

03-02-2006, 06:18 PM

:salam:

In the 30s there were cartoons of Jews being put in newspapers showing them to be evil, stingy, communist types hoarding all the money, etc, etc. [ If you think I am making this up put the following in to Google "cartoons Jews 1930s " for some examples ]

What happened next? Can anyone imagine such cartoons being printed by the upholders of Freedom of Speech in the media today? But today the Prophet of over a billion Muslims is being depicted a "terrorist". Nobody will say this is "anti-semitic" or "racist" or "incitement to racial hatred".

Abu.Talha

03-02-2006, 06:55 PM

Jazakallah brother Sikander

Omar HH

03-02-2006, 07:28 PM

We keep complaining about Salafis but not about the Danish?

Qaradawi had some good stuff to say on this,

Wassalam.

amatullah

03-02-2006, 07:45 PM

As salaamu alaikum

JazakAllah Khair for that article, sums it up pretty well masha Allah

I think the main point is that Muslims should be united and that we should protest these unacceptable acts in a peaceful manner. The picture I'm beginning to see Allahu 'aalim is that perhaps one aim of the perpetrators is to incite the Muslims so that they 'appear' to inforce the message of the cartoons that Muslims are 'terrorists' and that Islam is a 'violent' religion.

Sadly a newspaper in South Africa has printed the cartoons and the worst part is that the editor is Muslim. One gets a sense of disbelief...

Let us think what would the Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) have done if he was alive? Could the Respected Ulema kindly educate us on how the Prophet (Sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) dealt with taunts and insults from the Kuffar?

An extract from an article I came across:

"We must consider what happened when in Austria banners were raised of pictures ridiculing leading European personalities including Queen Elisabeth and President Jacques Chirac. No sooner did those banners appear than a wave of angry protest erupted from Britain, France, and from all over Europe. The banners were taken down in a matter of hours. Is it possible for any rational person to think that the feelings the Muslims have for Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) are any less than the feelings the people of Britain and France have, respectively, for Queen Elizabeth and Jacques Chirac?"

On a recent BBC poll a whopping 70 something % of viewers thought that the cartoons should be published while a mere 20 something % thought otherwise.

There have always been poeple ridiculing and mocking Islam, we should remember the verse that says something to the effect that Allah will perfect His light even though the unbelievers detest it

May we all remain steadfast on the Sunnah and may Allah Ta'ala help us in these trying times, ameen

eTeacher

04-02-2006, 12:47 AM

Jazakumullah for that article Maulana Ziad.

It's also on www.jucanada.org

Could the Respected Ulema kindly educate us on how the Prophet (Sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) dealt with taunts and insults from the Kuffar?

From Bukhari:
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 61:
Narrated 'Aisha:

A group of Jews asked permission to visit the Prophet (and when they were admitted) they said, "As-Samu 'Alaika (Death be upon you)." I said (to them), "But death and the curse of Allah be upon you!" The Prophet said, "O 'Aisha! Allah is kind and lenient and likes that one should be kind and lenient in all matters." I said, "Haven't you heard what they said?" He said, "I said (to them), 'Wa 'Alaikum (and upon you)."

sincerely,
-nazim

timasi

04-02-2006, 01:56 AM

Dear Muslims,

I am a Christian and I love Jesus Christ for what he did for me. One of my co-workers, who is an atheist, had e-mailed me a bunch of caricatures of Jesus, which I thought were offensive. I understand that if you believe that Muhammad was a prophet of Almighty God, you would be offended. I do not understand one thing, and I hope maybe somebody can help me. If Mohammed was a prophet of a living God, then he is in heaven with God. God al Almighty, He sees and hears everything, and He is also absolutely powerful. Why do weak humans, who are nothing but a dust, are left to defend the prophetsí good name? If He is with God, then why would not God defend him? We all know how powerful God is, we all remember the Tsunami, that killed more then 200,000 people (majority of whom were Muslims and it took place in Christmas Eve). We remember the earthquake in Iran in 2004 that killed more then 100,000 people (once again, majority of whom were Muslims and it took place in Christmas Eve also). We remember another earthquake that shook Pakistan just recently and left more then 3 million people homeless and killed many (again, majority were Muslims). Now, if making fun of prophet is a big sin, that God will rain his judgment on the Danes and the rest of the Europeans, and if this sin is so great, then the judgment should also be proportionate. Are we going to see a huge Tsunami coming from the ocean and covering the continent of Europe?

Sincerely,
Timothy

Salah ud Deen

04-02-2006, 07:40 AM

I know this is wrong, but after so much abuse of our faith, nasty attacks on our beloved Prophet(saw), I feel myself waiting to see what AQ and the salafi's do to these people. Not with dread either, but with a sense of "they had it coming." I also feel myself having a hatred for Christians as well due to all their unrelenting attacks on Islam. I don't want to feel this way, but it seems one can only take so much before they can't take it anymore.

Muawiyah

04-02-2006, 08:55 AM

timasi

04-02-2006, 05:09 PM

Muawiyah,

Do you think that disasters on our planet happen without God's knowledge? If this was the case, that we would be able to assume that God is not Almighty, that He does not control everything. We know, in fact, that this is not true. We observe the space, with its millions of stars, we look at how beautifully everything is created in our own planet, and we marvel at the wisdom and power of our creator. It has been made abundantly clear to us that God is Almighty, that He controls the universe and everything in it, including our planet. He stirs up the sea, and makes the earth rumble and shake, and when that happens, the only thing we can do is run for cover with our hearts full of fear. No matter what kind of infrastructure we build, He can destroy it. No matter what kind of safety we put in pace, he can still punish us if He chooses to. He certainly punishes people that call themselves Christian; just look at how many Hurricanes hit southern USA last year. How about hurricane Katrina, which demolished that city of sin, called New Orleans. Interestingly enough, last week a huge tornado ripped through it and destroyed what was fixed after the Katrina. It is clear that God does not want that city to be rebuilt.

So when we see a Tsunami killing 200,000 some people in a mater of hours, should it be an indication of God’s anger with these people. When we see an earthquake that leaves some 3 million people without homes, what does God try to tell these people? I think it is important for these people to find this answer, do you? Does Koran provide the answer?

Sincerely,
Timothy

Ederico Figallo

04-02-2006, 05:48 PM

This is my first post in this forum, and in any Islamic forum ever. First of all I am not a Muslim. I'm in fact a Traditionalist Catholic, or at least I strive to do my utmost to be so in a corrupt world.

My initial comment to the topic at hand is that I cannot agree more with the editorial, in this point:

"Muslims deserve an apology. And they seriously need to learn how to contain their emotions and express their displeasure using non-violent means."

Without debating theological and interreligious questions, I would like to state that what the Editor exclaimed above is reasonable, rational, and just for any person witholding any position in relation to religion in general. The problem is that the actions of violent Muslims invalidate the requirement for an apology in the eyes of many people. In the meantime, the Roman Catholic Chuch has condemned the offensive depictions.

I have not examined the actual papers that printed mentioned cartoons, although I've seen them online. If such spirit was used in insulting Christ, I would pray not to be enraged enough to act illegally against the offenders.

However, the offensive cartoons, were probably not printed by Christian newspapers but by secular areligious ones indulging in a liberal induced freedom of expression. I can only say something about these type of people and institutions, they are baseless and overtly materialistic. They disdain Christ and the Church repeatedly, which in most cases have been the guiding lights of their ancestors. Unfortunately if people like me protest I'm termed a "fundamentalist", a "retrograde", et cetera. So as much as some Christians inspired by rage and lack of adequate knowledge of the political situation and their own religion, might bash Muslims indiscriminately, I would like to ask this:

There are various examples of Muslims in Europe who have disdained aspects of Christianity, an example which comes to mind is the "Italian" (how a person with a Scottish father and an Egyptian mother is Italian is a mystery of naturalization procedures in relation to citizenship but they do not ascribe a change in nationality) Adel Smith who called the Crucifix "un cadaverino appeso a due legnetti" (a small cadaver on two small pieces of wood).

The man suffered no substantial repurcussions from Catholics, and in particular from the Italian state due to the fact that he is safeguared by the principle of freedom of expression. I personally would not tolerate him and his activities on Italian soil. He uttered such a grave insult in the context of his call to remove Crucifixes from public places in Italy on the basis that it offends Muslims but legally because Italy is officially a secular state. How would you comment on his action?

Moreover, menaces of terrorist attacks had been in the past been handed by Muslims offended by the depiction of Mohammed in hell in the (I think) medieval Basilica of San Petronio in Bologna, Italia. Would you condone such attacks?

Last question, would you prefer a liberal secularized atheistic materialistic Europe or a truly Catholic/Christian Europe? This is an either/or question, no alternative answers, please.

P.S. Post edited due to error in typing, edited bit is red font.

iqadeer

04-02-2006, 08:47 PM

Allah grants the kuffar istidraaj in this world, which is the power to defy Allah with impunity. Rest assured, a severe punishment awaits them in hellfire when they die. This is Allah's sunnat and nobody can change this except Him. If Allah were to take them to task for every sin and transgression, there won't be any disbelievers on earth. This is predestination and we as humans have no control over Allah's will.

iqadeer

04-02-2006, 08:50 PM

A calamity that befalls a muslim in this life is not really a punishment. It expiates their sins. Therefore, whoever died in a natural calamity is inshallah a martyr in Allah's path.

Tommi

04-02-2006, 09:04 PM

As far as I am aware,and indeed the reaction from the Ummar would suggest, This is the First time any Cartoon caricaturing Mohammed (PBUH), has been published.

It is , I feel certain in saying from personal experience, a Daily occurence for the Western Media to caricature the Christian Faith and the Jewish faith, (although the latter is less common in recent times). Programmes such as "Father Ted" Mock Catholisism. "Spitting Image" Mocked the Pope, Jesus (PBUH), and God (Allah)." Vicar of Dibley" Likewise mocks the Church and the prophets.
There is no limits to what has been published about Christian & Jewish faiths. Viz magazine is a monthly UK Adult Comic, which has evrything from Nuns on skateboards,Pedeohillic Preists, and God (Allah) himself in situations which I will not repeat on these Forums.

Many Western Comedians center their entire act around ridiculing the Christian and Jewish faiths and their prophets. Every Vicar in the Church of England knows a few jokes based on their faith.

The aforementioned Comic "Viz",had a character in which each episode he enters a church and causes faith based chaos.
One issue instead of the usual monthly ridicule of Christianity, The character walked towards a Mosque saying "Hi Readers, today I thought I might Poke gentle fun at aspects of the Islamic Religion", In the next shot he swerved back across the road into a Christian church and said "On second thoughts, I dont think I will bother"

[Quote]P.S A Jewish girl told me she sympathises with what Muslims are going through, but ignoring it would have been far better. Then it would have been old news. But we have drawn such attention to it, that most westeners who are without any religion are just getting more free time to mock us. Furthermore she said Arab papers frequently mock the Jewish religion and ppl via cartoon caricatures. So muslims who claim they are the only victims are kidding themselves.[Quote]

This issue is now front page headlines across the world, and benign countrys like Denmark and Sweden are, in my opinion, hearing for the first time crowds chanting "Death to Denmark".
A formal protest towards the Newspapers editor would have been far more effective than the storming of the EU embassy and delivering a "48 hour for the Government of the countrys where these papers are published to apologise or we bomb the Embassys and Kill Danish French and Swedes" deadline.

To my Main Point!!!!

One point that I would raise is, when Isa and Marium are mocked and parodyed,as they are every day, thousands of times a day and God (Allah) portrayed as in his presentation to Christians.(Shown usually as a Old Guy with a long white beard with bolts of lightning etc).

The Ummar has never mentioned to my knowlage, any disatisfaction with this.
Islam's basis is that the God of the people of the Book, is Allah, he is the same God who spoke to Abrahm (PBUH) and Mohammed is "His final prophet". Why do the Ummar remain utterly silent when cartoons of him (allah) are shown crashing to earth on a cloud , and other parodys, are screened with daily regularity?

I mean by this post absolutly no offence, but maintain that this is a very valid point. By all means demonstrate anger over pictures of Mohammed. But please in future do so with your other prophets and God (Allah) himself.

amatullah

04-02-2006, 09:46 PM

You make a valid point...However to my knowledge there has been protests over portrayals of Isa (Jesus) (Upon him be peace) and other issues in the past by Muslim organisations.

As you mentioned the proliferation of the west mocking Allah,religion and Prophets is alarming and should be dealt with by Muslims, Christians and Jews alike. In the future insha Allah (God Willing) we will do so as much as we can in our capacity - it must be noted that 'freedom of speech' is being totally taken out of context and so it will be difficult to protest every incident but at least to an extent that a precedent is set that freedom of speech does not include making a mock of religion (ANY religion)and their leaders ...religion is a very serious thing.

I think this component of 'freedom of speech' should be re-addressed by those concerned.

amatullah

04-02-2006, 09:50 PM

TSUNAMI
Lessons from the Asian Quake

Jamiatul Ulama (KZN)

http://www.jamiat.org.za/media/TsunamiLessons.htm

marv

04-02-2006, 11:11 PM

Tommi

04-02-2006, 11:46 PM

You make a valid point...However to my knowledge there has been protests over portrayals of Isa (Jesus) (Upon him be peace) and other issues in the past by Muslim organisations.

.

If there has, then I stand corrected. I am a person who is willing to accept a mistake if one has been made.

However to my knowlage, the dissatisfaction over the Wests portrayal of God/Allah, who even Mohammed (PBUH) is servant to, has not produced a uprising of the Ummar previously, to the degree that we are seeing today.

Perhaps a Muslim organisation complained to a TV company with a letter following the production of "Monty Pythons :Meaning of Life"? Perhaps after The Morcambe and Wise show was aired on TV, a muslim phoned the BBC? Perhaps in the Christian demonstration against the "Jerry Springer :The Opera" where out of 60 million Britons a mere 200 Christians demonstrated at the outright blatant and deliberate abuse hurled at Jesus and God. Perhaps here a Muslim joined them?

The weight of your arguement, with due respect, as i am aware that I am a new poster here, seems in my opinion very light.

Perhaps there is some other reason why this Uprising of the Ummar over these images of the Prophet has occoured?

The reasons for the inequality, why Muhameds parody should elicit such a response, and "relative"silence over portrayals of Allah /God, hold in my opinion very deep consequences for the Ummar.

I am painfully aware as a non muslim that raising these issues may cause offence. And this is without doubt something I do NOT wish to cause. However, I would like to encourage a heathy debate on these issues.

The prophet (PBUH) himself said "seek knowlage, even if it is in China".

Hamood

04-02-2006, 11:56 PM

marv

05-02-2006, 12:07 AM

All of you have been warned.Is this the response by a Muslim to non-Muslims?

Tommi

05-02-2006, 12:21 AM

Most non-muslim (kafirs) have found excuses to cover up the original crime which was committed ... Your motives can be questioned not ours. Don't tell us we are violent and we don't do this and don't do that .. leave that for later. RIGHT Now the issue is these disgusting cartoons. Don't try to justify it with your silly excuses and cover up the main issue by bringing up completely irrelevant issues.

If you have nothing sensible to say about these cartoons, please go elsewhere to vent out your anger and hatred for Islam. Most muslims including those on Sunniforum take any insult on the Prophet Muhammad :saw: extremely seriously.

All of you have been warned.

Actually most Kafirs are tripping over themselves to say that they "condem the slander".

I will personally apologise as a secularist for the danish press's actions.(Though im not actually danish)

Can you link where i said Muslims are Violent please? I seem to have forgotton writing that.

I have , as accepted by some posters , some valid points about these cartoons based on western portrayal of the other prophets (Upon whom be peace). I have no hatred for islam. Just questions. I have not insulted the Prophet (PBUH).

Thank you for the warning. What are the consequenses?

eTeacher

05-02-2006, 12:39 AM

I see daily in the Arab News and Yemen Times as well as other newspapers in Muslim countries, articles and political cartoons slandering and belittling Jews and Westerners, namely Americans and Europeans. But mosques and embassies are not attacked and/or burned in Israel or Western nations.

I suspect ulterior motives.

Br. Marv,

Every single day across the world, the Muslims are maligned and mocked but there were never any protest similar to which are taking place these past few days. So the question now is.... What has happened this time which never happened before? The simple answer is, this time our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him and all the previous prophets as well) has been mocked. That is why this time Muslims are outraged.

Yes, in Muslim countries, what you wrote occurs. But I don't think they mock the Prophets because we Muslims venerate all the Prophets like Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus and Muslims have spoken out in the past when the previous prophets have been mocked. It's not the Muslims fault if the Jewish people are not ready to protest for Prophet Moses or the Christians for Prophet Jesus.

So when non-Muslims mock and make fun of Islam or Muslims, people will tolerate it to a certain extent. But when the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihe Wasallm is defamed, then every single Muslim will be hurt. Some more than others.

Also, Br. Marv, we do not condone incitement towards violence. What happened with the burning of the embassies in a Muslim country is totally wrong and we will never praise those actions. That happened because of a lack of Islam and not because of Islam.

Tommi, I'm impressed by your courtesy and the way you made your comments. You could have easily come on this board and made fun of Muslims openly but you didn't. Props for that. Also, I think the word you are trying to write is "Ummah" with an 'h' and not "Ummar" with an 'r'. Ummah literally means a nation or a group of people.

Peace,
Nazim Mangera

eTeacher

05-02-2006, 12:51 AM

Thank you for the warning. What are the consequenses?

Section 2.2 of this forum (SunniForum) rules clearly states that Prophet Muhammad as well as the all the previous prophets (Peace be upon all of them) must be respected.

A link to the rules:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=101267#post101267

Contravention of Rule 2.2 will warrant an immediate ban from SunniForum.

Once again, Tommi and Brav and every other Non-Muslim posting on SF, thank you very much for taking the time out to post on SF and we hope that you will enjoy the time you spend here on SF. And we sincerely hope out of brotherly love that one day you will become like the following people:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=islam

Sincerely,
Nazim Mangera

traveler

05-02-2006, 01:23 AM

As a Muslim, i feel angered and offended with the Danish cartoons potraying our beloved Prophet S.A.W. This is an insult and total insensitivity towards other religion. We as Muslims have the rights to be angry, voice out our displeasure and protest outright this unbecoming actions. However, whatever actions we take must be done with adab.

Our beloved Rasulullah S.A.W is highly praised for his adab and we as his follower must follow suit. We can still remember when Rasulullah S.A.W went to Taif to spread Islam, hoping the people of this town will be receptive to his message, which has been rejected by the Makkans for over a decade.

But the people of Taif was just as cruel and unwilling to accept Rasulullah. They not only scorn his message of God's Oneness but also turned their youth against him. They pelted him with stones and hurled abuses at him. Archangel Gabriel was sent to him to aid him with an option: to have the whole town destroyed, with God's will. But the Prophet S.A.W said "No!" and instead of cursing, he prayed for them that one day their descendants will become Muslims and Alhamdulillah now we see Rasulullah's prayer fulfilled.

From that example, we Muslims all over the world should pray and dua' that one day the Danish and Europeans too will be shown the Light and become Muslims, Insha'Allah...

Quran 21:107 We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.

amatullah

05-02-2006, 05:40 AM

If there has, then I stand corrected. I am a person who is willing to accept a mistake if one has been made.

However to my knowlage, the dissatisfaction over the Wests portrayal of God/Allah, who even Mohammed (PBUH) is servant to, has not produced a uprising of the Ummar previously, to the degree that we are seeing today.

Perhaps a Muslim organisation complained to a TV company with a letter following the production of "Monty Pythons :Meaning of Life"? Perhaps after The Morcambe and Wise show was aired on TV, a muslim phoned the BBC? Perhaps in the Christian demonstration against the "Jerry Springer :The Opera" where out of 60 million Britons a mere 200 Christians demonstrated at the outright blatant and deliberate abuse hurled at Jesus and God. Perhaps here a Muslim joined them?

The weight of your arguement, with due respect, as i am aware that I am a new poster here, seems in my opinion very light.

Perhaps there is some other reason why this Uprising of the Ummar over these images of the Prophet has occoured?

The reasons for the inequality, why Muhameds parody should elicit such a response, and "relative"silence over portrayals of Allah /God, hold in my opinion very deep consequences for the Ummar.

I am painfully aware as a non muslim that raising these issues may cause offence. And this is without doubt something I do NOT wish to cause. However, I would like to encourage a heathy debate on these issues.

The prophet (PBUH) himself said "seek knowlage, even if it is in China".

Brother you cannot expect Muslims to defend other religions when they are not defending it themselves. What is the ruling with regards to God being drawn as a man in other religions? As far as I know Christianity believes God to appear in a male form (God Forbid) whilst Muslims believe that Allah does not assume any gender or form - Allah is the Supreme Being - .

Can you see the beauty in Islam? By prohibiting depictions of Prophets and God and any pictures for that matter Islam cuts off problems from the root. This has not been respected by some other faiths so now it has increased to such a state that it has become normal. Christians don't protest when pictures of what they believe to be God is drwan, now it is gone out of hand and this is being disrespected. If it was objected to right at the beginning by Christians and Jews these problems would not occur. Surely if someone attempts to draw Allah as a form I will definately be totally outraged, but I don't believe God to assume a form and other faiths do so if I protest to this my views will not be respected , it will become a religious debate and freedom of speech will be used as an excuse.

Yes, in Muslim countries, what you wrote occurs. But I don't think they mock the Prophets because we Muslims venerate all the Prophets like Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus and Muslims have spoken out in the past when the previous prophets have been mocked. It's not the Muslims fault if the Jewish people are not ready to protest for Prophet Moses or the Christians for Prophet Jesus.

Qingu

05-02-2006, 05:46 AM

sman

05-02-2006, 07:07 AM

http://www.petitiononline.com/rmdbc123/petition.html

To: Prof. Dr., Dr.h.c. mult. EKMELEDDIN IHSANOGLU, The Secretary General of the Oragnization of Islamic Conference.
In the name of Allah, the Most Benevolent , the Most Merciful
The journey of a thousand mile begins with a one single step – lets take that step!

His Excellency Prof. Dr. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, THE SECRETARY GENERAL
OF THE ORGANIZATION OF THE ISLAMIC CONFERENCE.

May this letter reach you in the best of spiritual health and happiness.

As you are fully aware of the situation regarding caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) which first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September 2005. These caricatures were reprinted again on the day of Eid-ul-Adha – one of the holiest days in an Islamic calendar, 10 January 2006 – in a Christian evangelical newspaper in Norway.

It would be naïve to think that it was just a mere co-incidence, or just an exercise of freedom of expression. These caricatures were design for one purpose and one purpose only – to incite the Muslims by attacking their beloved Prophet Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him), in order to gauge their blood temperature – does it still boil if we attack Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him)? They got their answer, NO!

Once it was discovered that Muslim’s blood is as cold as it can ever be, and their leaders are as Incompetent, and as Impotent as we have known them to be. The major newspapers across Europe launched an all out war on Islam and Muslims by attacking Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). They begin to reproduce the caricatures on February 1st, 2006 in major newspaper across Europe, in support of Danish newspaper in the name of “freedom of expression.”

“Freedom is not merely the opportunity to do as one pleases; neither is it merely the opportunity to choose between set alternatives. Freedom is first of all, the chance to formulate the available choices, to argue over them – and then the opportunity to choose.” C Wright Mills.

The great philosopher, Sir John Stuart Mills, whose lifetime’s work is the basis of western society’s notion on freedom and liberty, contains a very clear and concise exception called the “harm principle.”

“The only part of the conduct of anyone for which he is amenable to society is that which concerns others. In the part, which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”

Liberty and Freedom has its own set limits and defined boundaries. Hence, the right to “freedom of expression” of a cartoonist, or media organization is unsettling because it is causing a great deal of harm to one-fifth of worlds population. A large number of whom reside in Europe, and other non-Muslim nations.

The politicians in Europe are contradicting their own self established beliefs, upon which their system posits, and creating a very dangerous precedence for the future.

Almighty Allah says "Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Almighty God and His Messenger, and that you assist and honour him (Muhammad) ... " (48:8-9).

[And We have not sent you forth but as a mercy to mankind.] (Al-Anbiyaa’: 107)

"None of you will reach belief till I become dearer to him than his children, parents and all humans" [Al Bukhari & Muslim].

Our faith will never be correct, nor will it ever be complete unless and until Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) is more dearer to us then our own soul.

The ummah of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) is now at a crossroad. Because we state unequivocally, “there’s no one worthy of worship but Allah (the God almighty), and Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) is his messenger.” For having that belief, Muslims have been humiliated, robbed, raped, tortured, maimed, killed, and now adding insult to injuries those who have a disease in their hearts are attacking our reason for existence; attacking our souls – yet, our Muslim leaders remain silent – Why?

Atleast 1 western media outlet openly declares that Islamic leadership is: “Incompetent, and Impotent,” and now we understand why?

Allah (SWT) has given the Muslim leaders, a fabulous opportunity to prove the above statement wrong.

The Ummah of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him), is not just any fly by night Ummah. We dominate one-fifth of the world population, with 57 strong nations, and control world’s most demanding natural resource – OIL!

These 57 nations are economically vibrant, and politically strong, with its own union – The Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC).

The OIC charter clearly states under article:

1.Strengthen:
C) The struggle of all Muslim people to safeguard their dignity, independence and national rights.

3. Work To:
A) Eliminate racial discrimination and all forms of colonialism.

The time has come for our leaders to safeguard our dignity, by safeguarding the honour and dignity of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). Eliminate racial discrimination and all forms of colonialism, if you are so much committed to it. Otherwise step aside and let those take over who will -- Inshaa Allah!

“Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.” Frederick Douglass.

The Muslim citizens of the world demand our leaders at the OIC, representing 57 Muslim nations lives up to its own charter, on behalf of all Muslims, and take the following actions immediately:

1) Any European or Non-European nation, whose newspapers, or any media outlet has participated in this so-called exercise of their “freedom of Expression” –which contradicts their own self establish beliefs. All Muslim nations, under the leadership of the OIC must:

i) Cut off all diplomatic and economic relationships with them.
ii) Recall all Muslim state ambassadors from those countries.
iii) Shut down their embassies, and send their ambassadors back to their respective nations – immediately!

2) Any nation which already has, or even tries to republish those blasphemous caricatures, a heavy duty must be impose on their imports, as well as if the law allows, a hefty levy must be placed on all exports to those nations.

i) Yes, we will suffer – no doubt! However, are we willing to lose our faith over it? We have to decide what is worse. We must remember, “Allah is a sufficient provider,” and if we are still in doubt, then we seriously need to examine our hearts, and our faith in Allah (SWT).

3) Unanimously, with Courage, Dignity and Honour, we must send a clear and concise message – enough is enough – and the Muslims will not tolerate any such blasphemy about Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him).

4) A demand must be made to the European Union, and other western nations that they introduce and adapt a law which would guarantee that no such exercise of freedom of expression will ever occur, and if it does, the perpetrators will be brought to justice.

5) The leaders of those nations whose media has committed this heinous crime against Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) must publicly apologize to the Muslim citizens of the world.

6) Those whom have participated, a class action lawsuit must be filed against those individuals, as well as the media organization, which dared to publish it, or propagate it.

i) The only exception be given if they would be willing to publish or present an entire biography of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him), by a reputable scholar from the Muslim world.

7) If they agree to our terms and conditions, then the relationship should be normalizing.

And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.
Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #75)

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

Tommi

05-02-2006, 07:10 AM

Hello, everyone......

.

Hi Mate.

I was wonderng to what extent the lack of understanding about a free press affects this issue as well. Specifically the adressing of the ultimatum to the Governments of countries who have published these articles.

In Palastine Syria etc etc, muslim nations under Totalitarian Governments, the people there have never experienced freedom of speech or press as we in the west know it. That is, I know a easy thing to say, but a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

I am a Ex- Soldier ,British Army, who served in Iraq, and know from personal experience how difficult freedom of speech is to understand if you have never had it. Shortly after Saddams regeime fell, one of the first newspapers up started gushing pro-UK /US propaganda in very over -the -top style. We said to the Publishers, "Thats great, but you know you can Slag us off if you like as well." The staff looked very uncertain about this. It was a new concept. Previously the penalty for mild critisism was a bullet in the head.

In my Opinion, The Gunmen who issued the ultimatum to the Danes think that It's the Danish government who has ordered this cartoon printed rather than a geeky newspaper editor of a tiny publication.

One thing is certain. If a formal protest in a letter had been delivered from the Islamic Council, the paper would have never printed this sort of thing again. And about 2000 readers of the paper would have seen the images.

Storm a Embassy, Order a day of rage, Threaten killings & Burn Flags and HEY! The whole world has seen these images. And others.

Tommi

05-02-2006, 07:33 AM

Brother you cannot expect Muslims to defend other religions when they are not defending it themselves..

Actually the Christian Church is very Vocal in its condemnation of such things. The Protests against the "Springer : The Opera" Made front page news for example.
The point I am making , I Reiterate, is that the Ummah have risen in rage at Mohammed (PBUH)'s caricatures. But they have never ever complained even mildly over Musa's image falling down the mountain for example or God/Allah getting "Locked out of heaven" in contempory cartoons.

I Understand that Islam does not beleive that Allah has a visible form. I myself beleive that his form cannot be understood in earthly terms and so can accept that this distances Muslims from identifying the pictures as representing Allah.
But the Quran clearly indicates that the God of the Jews and the God of the Christians is Allah. If anything I would have expected MORE outrage at the very portrayal, by infidel of him, than has been shown over Mohammed (PBUH).

The answer must lie deeper.

Salah ud Deen

05-02-2006, 08:07 AM

sumayyah_afshar

05-02-2006, 10:26 AM

Asalam alikum wr wb,

Firstly i would like to tell the ummar how proud i am of everycoming toghther on this despit what madhab or sect that they may have choosen. may allah keep us united together through hard times and bad! amin

Christianity is openly taken the mick out of on a day to day basis and i really sympathise but just because you do not do nothing about it and just except it doesn't mean to say we have to.

As muslims we are taught to love Mohammed (saw) more then our own families and if you don't how can you be a true believer in Islam. If you do not believe in him you can't even be a muslim the decloration of faith would be impossible for you to say without mentioning his name.

These cartoons were done to cause a big fuss, the reasoning that some protest may have been violent is cos so many people see it as the last straw that this so called "free world" that the west loves soooo much just little by little is treading on the muslims of the world.

Freedom of speech can go to hell, my husband dawah table was closed down for no reason and given some rubbish cover up as to why, how comes its freedom of speech for some and not for others?????

Allah knows best. also i would like to say i didn't actually read anybody elses responses so this was my direct feeling to the title.

Qingu

05-02-2006, 03:23 PM

The politicians in Europe are contradicting their own self established beliefs, upon which their system posits, and creating a very dangerous precedence for the future.
This is simply incorrect. The fact of the matter is that Allah and Mohhamed, along with the Christian, Jewish, and Hindu deities, have long been openly mocked and derided in the West. If you don't believe me, watch South Park, or watch Comedy Central.

You cited the "harm principle"--which confuses me. I don't see any anti-Muslim violence coming out of these cartoons. I do see plenty of Muslims threatening violence, kidnapping, and burning down embassies. Does this mean you think your governments should disband all Muslim protests because they incite violence?

Atleast 1 western media outlet openly declares that Islamic leadership is: “Incompetent, and Impotent,” and now we understand why?
Muslim leadership is incompetent and impotant. Most of Muslim theocracies are underdeveloped and are led by dictators. This is a statement of fact, not an attack on Islam.

In the same way, the statement that "George Bush is an incompetent, impotent leader who has unnecessarily killed thousands of innocent people" is a statement of fact--not an attack on me as an American.

The time has come for our leaders to safeguard our dignity, by safeguarding the honour and dignity of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). Eliminate racial discrimination and all forms of colonialism, if you are so much committed to it. Otherwise step aside and let those take over who will -- Inshaa Allah!
This is hypocritical. Non-Muslims feel no need to treat Mohammed with more honor or dignity than any other historical or religious figure. And yet you would impose your religious law on non-Muslims by requiring them to do so? How is that not the exact same thing colonial governments did to Muslims?

1) Any European or Non-European nation, whose newspapers, or any media outlet has participated in this so-called exercise of their “freedom of Expression” –which contradicts their own self establish beliefs. All Muslim nations, under the leadership of the OIC must:

i) Cut off all diplomatic and economic relationships with them.
ii) Recall all Muslim state ambassadors from those countries.
iii) Shut down their embassies, and send their ambassadors back to their respective nations – immediately!
The governments in these nations are not responsible for these cartoons. Why is this so hard to understand?

There have been many terrorist attacks by Muslims from Muslim countries. These were the acts of individual groups, not of governments. So should Western countries cut off all diplomatic ties and sanction countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan? If your answer is "no," then please explain why your proposal is not hypocritical.

2) Any nation which already has, or even tries to republish those blasphemous caricatures, a heavy duty must be impose on their imports, as well as if the law allows, a hefty levy must be placed on all exports to those nations.
Again, nations do not publish these cartoons. Individual papers do. Similarly, nations do not carry out terrorist attacks. Individuals do.

3) Unanimously, with Courage, Dignity and Honour, we must send a clear and concise message – enough is enough – and the Muslims will not tolerate any such blasphemy about Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him).
This is certainly not the message we secular folks are getting from responses such as this one. Rather, this entire petition shows the ignorance and hypocrisy of the Muslim world. It asks Muslims to punish Western nations for something national governments are not responsible for. Hypocritically, many of these same Muslims, such as those in Palestine, would deplore the United States if it cut off diplomatic and financial aid to the reason because of the acts of individual terrorists.

And of course, Muslims are free to simply not read the cartoons. Just as they have been free to not watch South Park, read Christian message boards, or read or watch any of the thousands of instances where Mohammed has been mocked in Western culture.

4) A demand must be made to the European Union, and other western nations that they introduce and adapt a law which would guarantee that no such exercise of freedom of expression will ever occur, and if it does, the perpetrators will be brought to justice.
You're seeking to impose your Islamic laws on us. That's colonialism.

5) The leaders of those nations whose media has committed this heinous crime against Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) must publicly apologize to the Muslim citizens of the world.
Why? Many leaders have condemned the publications. But how could they apologize for something that they did not commit and are not responsible for?

Should the leaders of Saudi Arabia apologize for 9/11?

6) Those whom have participated, a class action lawsuit must be filed against those individuals, as well as the media organization, which dared to publish it, or propagate it.
What demonstrable harm has this cartoon caused? You would get $0.

And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.
Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #75)
If Allah is well-acquainted with all things, perhaps you should leave the judgment to him and grow thicker skin? :)

marv

05-02-2006, 04:48 PM

...we Muslims all over the world should pray and dua' that one day the Danish and Europeans too will be shown the Light and become Muslims,......that, I'm afraid, is at the heart of the problem. People berate President Bush for his '...if you're not with us, you're against us...' attitude. I see the same with Muslims.

I live in the West where I'm free to choose any religion that satisfies me, or none at all. I am, in fact, an atheist who has been married for 26 wonderful years to a wife who is a 'born-again' Christian. I view all religions objectively, and admire most because of the good works performed in the name of whichever deity they choose to worship. Nor do I proselytize my atheism.

I reject, intellectually, all religions including Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Shintoism, Buddhism, and all the rest. And it pains me to see one person kill another human being just because of differing theologies. It's just wrong.

I just heard in a news bulletin, that a Marist Catholic priest was shot dead in front of his church in Turkey by a mob rioting because of the cartoons. More people have died in wars because of some god than have died for territory or riches. Is this what the human race is all about?

amatullah

05-02-2006, 05:02 PM

Hello, everyone.

This is my first post on this forum. I'm an atheist and I suppose my confusion over Muslims' response to these cartoons has inspired me to interact and (hopefully) learn more about Islam in general.

Regarding the cartoons, there are several things I'm confused about.

1. Why are Muslims demanding apologies/exacting retribution from nations or even from Europe as a whole? In Western countries, governments have no power or say in what newspapers publish. Thus, it seems to me that nations cannot logically be held accountable for what their free presses print. Do you think this aspect of Muslims' responses to the cartoons is based on ignorance of how free presses work in western cultures? Or is it more of a demand for western nations to censor their newspapers?

2. The author of the first post of this thread believes Muslims are outraged at the Prophet's portrayal not in and of itself, but rather because the cartoons portray him disrespectfully, as a violent terrorist, and thus views this as an attack on the prophet's character. But I saw the cartoons and this was not my interpretation at all. In my opinion, the cartoons seemed more like parodies of Islamophobia itself. Especially the "we ran out of virgins" one. This is the kind of humor you find in Mel Brooks movies. Hitler is obviously very offensive to Jews, but in Mel Brooks' "The Producers," the Nazis are portrayed in such a cliched, silly way that it should be obvious that Brooks is not actually promoting Nazism. Similarly, the "we ran out of virgins" cartoon is so cliched and stupid that it is obvious, to me at least, that the author is not seriously insulting your religion, but rather caricaturing those who would insult Islam in that manner. Overly ironic humor is pretty common in the West. Are you entirely certain that you're outraged for the right reason?

3. Many Muslims have reacted violently to these cartoons. I've seen pictures of protestors holding up signs that say "Behead anyone who insults the Prophet," "Death to Denmark," "Death to France," and so on. And in Syria, a mob of protestors torched the EU's embassy. To tell you the truth, this is incredibly disturbing to me. I live in America, and many Americans are extremely religious, evangelical Christians. I am sure that we print stuff here that is as offensive to evangelical Christians as those cartoons are offensive to devout Muslims. But I can't even remember an evangelical protest calling for violence or death--even among the incredibly ignorant groups. I'm speaking generally, but why do Muslims as a whole seem to react with such violence when they are offended? Especially since the reason for the offense is supposedly because the Prophet is portrayed as excessively violent? It seems to me that by reacting in such a violent way, Muslims are becoming the caricature of Islam that they are taking offense at, which seems quite hypocritical.

Hi, I hope that your search to understand islam is fruitful and that God guides you to the truth

1.We want this aspect of 'freedom of speech' (mocking God,His Religion and His Prophets )to be addressed by the western world so that in future such incidents will not take place.

2.There is a wave of unjustified Islamaphobia at present. The Western media is driving at portraying Islam as a terrorist religion. It is a religion of peace not terrorism.

Similarly, the "we ran out of virgins" cartoon is so cliched and stupid that it is obvious, to me at least, that the author is not seriously insulting your religion, but rather caricaturing those who would insult Islam in that manner.

That's not true , the majority of the people reading the cartoon would not think of it the way you put it. Basically the western world has been brainwashed by their media and a cartoon like this is another aid to portray Islam in a negative light. It is a slander on the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him).Muslims never ever attribute any saying to the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) until we are completely sure that the chain of narrators is correct. Their is a limit to joking in Islam.'Overly ironic humor is pretty common in the West' but don't do it to Islam and The Beloved Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him).The line is drawn here.

3.Muslims as a whole don't react violently. What you are seeing (in the media)is only a small minority of ignorant muslims who are not behaving in the way that the Prophet (Peace Be Upon HIm) did. The majority of the Muslims are peacefully and intelligently protesting this issue. There are +/- 1 billion Muslims world wide, the actions of a few does not constitute Muslims as a whole.I do not know of 1 person in my personal capacity that has acted violently towards the cartoons. Don't make general sweeping statements bro

Regards

eat-halal guy

05-02-2006, 05:51 PM

Why has a cartoon turned into a crisis? (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1139007014008) (Toronto Star)

Abdur_Rahman

06-02-2006, 03:43 AM

:salam:

It's very sad that this outcome happen back in September 05, just before Ramadhan started, furthermore it shows how the muslims play into the media hands and have them portrayed as the "BARBARIC MOSLEMS" :rolleyes:

:subh: now the MOSLEMS are burning down embassies now? The timing of this situation and handling this situation is way off base. :$

may allah aza wajall guide us all to that which is correct Ameen

islamonline

06-02-2006, 09:56 AM

:salam:

IMO, This was a sort of Bate for the Muslims, they took the bate and Reacted.
Yes! We should have Reacted, to defend our Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w),
first the objective was to either gain an apology or reprint, but it seems as though many have gone 'offtrack', i believe this is what the media wanted, its just another 'Selling' News Story for them,

"Muslims ...." , "Muslims Burn Danish Embassy" this is what they're looking for.
and we as muslims fell into their trap.

May Allah(Swt) Save us from their Fitnah, and grant the entire Ummah Sabr and to be Wise in their Actions. Aameen.

I strongly Recommend You take a look at this article by Khalid Bhaig - Albalagh Newsletter.

Islamophobia in Europe - Intended Insults - Unintended Consequence (http://www.albalagh.net/current_affairs/0086.shtml)

:ws:

marv

06-02-2006, 01:39 PM

Some Muslims proclaim the United States as "...the great Satan..." and we shrug it off. We look at Muslim nations and see burning tires in streets and mobs burning embassies over simple cartoons. Sunni and Shi'a murder each other with alacrity over religious differences while calling Islam a religion of peace and tolerance.

What are we in the West to think about Islam?

Kareem

06-02-2006, 01:50 PM

islamonline

06-02-2006, 02:19 PM

:salam:

What you see on TV isnt always the whole truth,

from my point of view the Media we have today is very Biased!

:ws:

Tommi

06-02-2006, 03:15 PM

don't be so foolish to form an oppinion based on news stories. theres more to life than the events that get shown on tv.

I think that he is pointing towards that in the west we are now perfectly used to stories showing thousands of Palastinians or Iranians chanting "Death to <insert western countrys name>"
This forms part of Friday prayers in some Mosques. It may not represent mainstream muslim veiws. Certainly in westernised Muslims it does not.

Can anyone on the Board point me to a TV report Newspaper article of Thousands of citizens, fired up by their churches or indeed anything else, chanting "Death to Syria" and storming a Muslim Embassy? For any reason?

(OK the SAS stormed the Iranian embassy in 1979, but that was because The Iranians had taken Hostages and threatened them with Death)

Western countries take statements like "America will be destroyed" and "London will burn with a fiery cross". Even when we are at war witha country, we will not mass and shout "Behead Muslims" or "Death to Afghanistan".
Any Mass demonstrations in the west are restricted to improving Human rights, slating the government or showing anti-war feelings.
Perhaps a worldwide mass demonstration organised by the Islamic Council could condem the thousands of Citizens carbombed/beheaded/kidnapped, etc etc? The political prisoners tortured and held in Arab Dictatorships?

My point here is not to Insult Muslims. It is to point out TV stories are spun in certain ways to be sure. But Embassys did Burn. Threats HAVE been made. Thousands chanting "Death to <Favorite kuffa country>" ARE regular events.
Compare that to the wests response.

amatullah

06-02-2006, 03:28 PM

[QUOTE=Tommi]

Western countries take statements like "America will be destroyed" and "London will burn with a fiery cross". Even when we are at war witha country, we will not mass and shout "Behead Muslims" or "Death to Afghanistan".
QUOTE]

That's probably the difference...western superpowers not only threaten but they carry out their threats too...Iraq...Afghanistan...Guantanamo Bay...Abu Ghuraib prison...I gues that's supposed to be civilised coz the innocents are tortured behind closed doors...weird :rolleyes: and tortured they are

amatullah

06-02-2006, 03:51 PM

The western media don't show us the pictures of the poor girl whose body parts were dislocated because a she thought she entered a minefield while looking for food...

they don't show us the disfigured bodies of fathers, mothers, daughters and sons because of nuclear weapons that have been used on them...

they don't show us how they torture innocent Muslims with no charge against them (Their only crime being that they're Muslims)...

they don't tell you about the women being gang raped in prisons and elderly being kicked around by soldiers ...

they don't show us these things! The pictures that leaked out of abu ghuraib are just a tiny fraction of what goes on...

I'd say these things are as violent as ever...

Tommi

06-02-2006, 04:37 PM

Im not an apologist for certain aspects of Western Policy. Some things i agree with. Some i dont.

I agree with Iraq, because I served there, I know who the terrorists are, who they kill, who we protect, what Saddam did.& what the Iraqi people think of the overthrowing of Saddam. The only reason we are still there is because of the Terrorists slaughtering innocent people. I'm sure that there will be a response of that the coalition are doing exactly that, but when a American soldier pulls the trigger on a car speeding towards him,after firing warning shots, he is trying to protect himself, his mates and the civilians around from a bomber. He is not thinking "Ahh i'll just slaughter a few dozen people today to further the political cause".
When the Terrorists stop then the 12 million voters of Iraq can have their taste of true freedom.

I Agree with what happened in Afghanistan. I never served there, but the Taliban were given a chance. They made a statement that they would protect AlQuada. They had the option. Now Muslims in the main there can live in freedom , mostly, from the Taliban.Most muslims agree that this is a good thing. Even Muslim nations did not accept their Government. Im sure a few extremists can be found to support their butchery though.

I Disagree with Guantanemo. The legal loopholing is not a good example from the self proclaimed leader of free speech and Justice. The prisoners should have their Trial and be incarcerated in special prisons if Guilty. Released if innocent. The torture there is unacceptable. Thats why the responsible Gaurds are now in jail or on trial. It's not state policy to torture. Although Sleep deprevation and other techniques such as playing loud western music 24 hours a day is i beleive common practice. This should stop.
So should the Electrodes, beatings,burning,acid baths,and gouging out of eyes in Arab State Jails of political prisoners. Perhaps the Ummah can protest against this too? Ahh nope they cant. The respective Governments would slaughter them in the streets and add them to the torture chambers.

The little girl who was blown apart by a mine. I would ask who planted the mine? Mines are not used by the west. They are banned. Western agencys and Armys clear and destroy mines that Muslim regimes have planted.

Nukes? Evryone is familiar with Images of Nuclear weapons effects from WW2. But I assume you mean the Depleted Uranium rounds used by some tanks in the two Gulf Wars. D.U rounds are not nuclear.If they were then the world would have ended already. Perhaps its a language barrier thing, but that can be taken as just needless inflammitory phrases. They do appear to have some health effects. The pictures of which I have seen. Depleted uranium may be a effective Antitank round but, in my opinion it should be banned because of the UNINTENDED side effects caused by the vaporised dust.

The gang rapes and old lady kicking I would appreciate some links to articles where i can see this. Western troops doing this would be court martialed instantly. I got a utter beasting (yelling at and threatened) by my Staff Sergant for dressing up in Arab Headress and dancing as a joke. It was apparently derogatory to muslims and so I was diciplined. The US Army is the same.
Please show me some evidence of this.

Having said all of the above, I would return to the point. What Western GOVERNMENTS do and what western Citizens do are two different things. Western Citizens protest in their hundreds of thousands to save Foxes from being hunted or to rage against war or poverty in Africa. We NEVER gather to demand the Death of Muslims. I cant recall a bunch of Baptists Jehovas witnesses or Anglicans driving a truck full of High Explosive into a Muslim Market either screaming "Jesus is Brilliant!". Or Gunning down a thousand Muslim Kids in a school. Etc Etc,,,you get the idea.

Just to clarify my political standing by the way. I voted for Tony Blair, will vote for him again, and George Bush is a Idiot.

azba

06-02-2006, 04:48 PM

tooo ryt George Bush is an Idiot lol :)

iqadeer

06-02-2006, 05:15 PM

Iraq did not pose the western world, especially the U.S. an immediate threat. We now know that the reasons for going into Iraq were a pile of lies. How many times do we have to go over this argument? As far as Afghanistan's involvement in 911, I seriously doubt that Al-Qaida possessed the ability to infiltrate the U.S. so easily and engineer such a remarkable terrorist feat. There has to be collusion. I recently saw another video, which you may disregard as another attempt to discredit Bush, which clearly shows the flaws in the official explanations given about the attacks on WTC and Pentagon and the subsequent collapse of the towers. The video is full of scientific data and provides ample evidence that there were other forces at work behind these attacks. I believe somebody has already posted the video on the internet. I will try to find the link and post it some time. As far as abuses commited by both British and American troops go, they have been well-documented and proven by Western sources and hence undeniable. These abuses were kept secret until somebody decided to blow the whistle. How would it be possible for us to even say that these are isolated cases? There must be dozens or even hundreds of abuse cases that may have gone unreported. I personally don't care about Blair or Bush. To me they're birds of a feather. You may include the Italian Prime Minister, previous Spanish government, and Australian Prime Minister as well. They all colluded with Bush in supporting this war and are equally culpable.

eTeacher

06-02-2006, 07:28 PM

DANISH LAW

the following from: http://www.albalagh.net/current_affairs/0086.shtml

"The implementation of the laws follows the same "principled" approach. Thus, Denmark has laws regarding blasphemy as well as racism. Both of these laws have been violated in the current case, the assertion of the newspaper that it broke no laws, notwithstanding. Section 266b of the Danish Criminal Code provides:

Any person who, publicly or with the intention of wider dissemination, makes a statement or imparts other information by which a group of people are threatened, insulted or degraded on account of their race, colour, national or ethnic origin, religion, or sexual inclination shall be liable to a fine or to imprisonment for any term not exceeding 2 years.
And its section 140, which deals with blasphemy, reads:

Those who publicly mock or insult the doctrines or worship of any religious community that is legal in this country, will be punished by a fine or incarceration for up to 4 month.

Similarly section 142 of the Norwegian Penal Code provides for punishment for any person "who publicly insults or in an offensive manner shows contempt for any religious creed...or for the doctrines or worship of any religious community lawfully existing here."

That these laws provided no protection to the Muslims, highlights the fact that despite their sizable populations, the Muslims carry no political weight in the European democracies.

Hence the importance of the economic boycott started by the grassroots in the Muslim countries.

The expressed worry of the pundits in Europe is that the Muslim do not understand their societies; their real worry is that the Muslims have begun to understand how these societies really work. The Muslims are realizing that if they want to get any rights and respect there, they will have to show their weight. The boycott of products from offending countries is a result of that realization and it is exactly the kind of step that, if continued patiently, can help Europe deal with its arrogance and Islamophobia. Europe could then see that dealing with Muslims with respect is a good policy. And in a land where honesty is the best policy (not principle but policy), that is the best one can hope for.

Tommi

06-02-2006, 07:57 PM

Iraq did not pose the western world, especially the U.S. an immediate threat. We now know that the reasons for going into Iraq were a pile of lies. How many times do we have to go over this argument? .

We could indeed go over the arguement ad-infinitum. You beleive the conspiracy theorys, which you are entitled to. Al-quada dosnt beleive them. They admitted the ruddy thing! Watch a few of their videos. Actually ,no , dont.

I'm very willing to continue this Western forign policy thing in another thread. However a challange issued at the Muslims is: Whenever a charge is leveled against them, it is responded to by "Look at what the west has done,Its the wests fault."

Just for a moment lets assume that your talking to a Liberal and I agree with the Satanic West being responsible for unprovoked aggression and deliberate civilian killing in a mad pursuit for oil to feed the insatiable Neo-conservative Yankee capitalist military-zionist dominance machine.

That taken as read. Can you address this?
What Western GOVERNMENTS do and what western Citizens do are two different things. Western Citizens protest in their hundreds of thousands to save Foxes from being hunted or to rage against war or poverty in Africa. We NEVER gather to demand the Death of Muslims. I cant recall a bunch of Baptists Jehovas witnesses or Anglicans driving a truck full of High Explosive into a Muslim Market either screaming "Jesus is Brilliant!". Or Gunning down a thousand Muslim Kids in a school. Etc Etc,,,you get the idea.

amatullah

06-02-2006, 08:20 PM

Abu Ghraib Prison Attacked In Response To “Fatima’s Letter”
Dec 21, 2004
By Khadija Abdul Qahaar, JUS And Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice

At approximately 12:25pm on Saturday, resistance fighters waged an unprecedented assault on the Abu Ghraib prison camp south of Baghdad. The assault was sparked by a letter from a female prisoner named Fatima that fueled some Muslim fighters into action.

Fatima’s letter, a hand written document, was recently smuggled out of Abu Ghraib. Fatima is the sister of one of the celebrated Resistance fighters in the area. US occupation forces raided his house some time back but failed to find him, so they took his sister prisoner in an attempt to force him to give himself up. JUS reported the incident at the time and it was said that this family is known for their piety and uprightness.

Here is Fatima’s letter as originally published in Arabic by Mafkarat al-Islam and translated to English by Muhammad Abu Nasr of Free Arab Voice

Fatima’s Letter

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Mercy-giving. “Say He is God the One; God the Source [of everything]; Not has He fathered, nor has He been fathered; nor is anything comparable to Him.” [Qur’an, Surat 112 “al-Ikhlas”]

I chose this noble Surah from the Book of God because it has the greatest impact on me and on all of you and it strikes a particular kind of awe in the hearts of Believers.

My brother Mujahideen in the path of God! What can I say to you? I say to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies of the Qur’an that hung around our necks? God is greatest! Can you not comprehend our situation? Is it true that you do not know what is happening to us? We are your sisters. God will be calling you to account [about this] tomorrow.

By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies apart with his overweening lust. And we are the ones who had guarded our virginity out of fear of God. Fear God! Kill us along with them! Destroy us along with them! Don’t leave us here to let them get pleasure from raping us! It will be an act to ennoble the Throne of Almighty God. Fear God regarding us! Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

I am your sister in God (Fatimah). They raped me on one day more than nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped. Why can’t you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls, all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone.

They won’t let us pray. They took our clothes and won’t let us get dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide. She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn’t take any more, even though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But I excuse that girl. I have hope that God will forgive her, because He is the Most Merciful of all.

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might be at peace. Help! Help! Help! [Wa Mu'atasima!]

Subsequently, approximately 100 resistance fighters launched a fierce attack on the prison, forcing US troops to take cover inside their barracks within the compound. Fighters pounded the Americans with barrages of 82mm and 120mm mortar rounds. Large crowds of people gathered outside, fearful that the bombardment might harm the prisoners but they were assured by the fighters that they knew the layout of the prison camp very well.

Mafkarat al-Islam’s correspondent in Baghdad reported that the fighters succeeded in destroying part of the walls of the prison camp, blasting a hole four meters long in the inner and outer fences that encircled the camp.

The fate of Fatima and the other woman with her is unknown.

__________________________________________________ __________
Effects of U.S. Nuclear Weapons in Iraq (http://www.anti-imperialist.org/nuke-effects_4-25-04.htm)

They added the incursion and houses storming as usually coupled with the whizzing live bullets and light flames and the firing of tear gas canister besides holding tens of the residents either women, elderly and children , as they have liable to a violent beating with the baton and abuts of their rifles not to mention forcing some of the residents to strip off their clothes . gross damages were also caused to several houses... (http://www.ipc.gov.ps/ipc_e/ipc_e-1/e_News/news2004/2004_09/075.html)

Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan (http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm)

How easily we have come to take the bombs and the deaths in Iraq for granted, Robert Fisk (http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles533.htm)

Secrets of the morgue: Baghdad's body count, Robert Fisk (http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles528.htm)

The Israeli Genocide in Palestine, March 29 - April 18, 2002 (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine52.html)

iqadeer

06-02-2006, 08:26 PM

I cant recall a bunch of Baptists Jehovas witnesses or Anglicans driving a truck full of High Explosive into a Muslim Market either screaming "Jesus is Brilliant!". Or Gunning down a thousand Muslim Kids in a school. Etc Etc,,,you get the idea.

They don't have to when the Evangelicals are openly espousing pro-zionist positions in the U.S. Discovery Times recently aired a very revealing documentary about the "Rapture" and how millions of Evangelical Christians are faithfully voting to keep madmen like Bush in power by influencing the foriegn policy of this country. You speak of radical Islam but its only a symptom of a larger issue spawned by Western Imperialism. The Palestinian issue which birthed the modern day phenomenon of suicide bombings was created by your friends, the British. Whose idea is to impose collective punishments on a broad range of population because of a few? Why did U.S. had to destroy the entire city of Fallujah and kill hundreds of innocent civilians because a few U.S. contractors were killed? Better check your own hands for blood before pointing fingers at us.

amatullah

06-02-2006, 08:37 PM

We could indeed go over the arguement ad-infinitum. You beleive the conspiracy theorys, which you are entitled to. Al-quada dosnt beleive them. They admitted the ruddy thing! Watch a few of their videos. Actually ,no , dont.

I'm very willing to continue this Western forign policy thing in another thread. However a challange issued at the Muslims is: Whenever a charge is leveled against them, it is responded to by "Look at what the west has done,Its the wests fault."

Just for a moment lets assume that your talking to a Liberal and I agree with the Satanic West being responsible for unprovoked aggression and deliberate civilian killing in a mad pursuit for oil to feed the insatiable Neo-conservative Yankee capitalist military-zionist dominance machine.

That taken as read. Can you address this?
What Western GOVERNMENTS do and what western Citizens do are two different things. Western Citizens protest in their hundreds of thousands to save Foxes from being hunted or to rage against war or poverty in Africa. We NEVER gather to demand the Death of Muslims. I cant recall a bunch of Baptists Jehovas witnesses or Anglicans driving a truck full of High Explosive into a Muslim Market either screaming "Jesus is Brilliant!". Or Gunning down a thousand Muslim Kids in a school. Etc Etc,,,you get the idea.

I don't exactly understand why you keep mentioning westerners and their protests - we have mentioned our stance that we DO NOT condone violent or aggressive protests and this is not the way of the Prophet(Peace Be Upon Him)...you must remember out of a population of 1.2 billion Muslims the %age of Muslims engaging in these acts is a tiny minority - don't paint all Muslims with the same brush. Majority of Muslims ARE protesting this in an accepatable manner and we WILL continue to protest this in an acceptable manner God Willing. I hope the message is clearly understood.

eat-halal guy

06-02-2006, 09:47 PM

Can we please keep this thread on topic? :) Thank you.

Please start a new thread if you wish to discuss US foreign policy, terrorism, etc.

Julz

06-02-2006, 10:46 PM

[QUOTE=smallaxe27]After reading many of these forums, newspapers, web pages, books, documentaries, etc. I am forced to come to the conclusion that there WILL be a great clash of cultures that will be filled with violence.

- Islam has NO tolerance for alternative views and freedom of speech. Sorry, but freedom of speech means there will be unpleasant representations of certain things that you hold dear - and if you want it censored - thats NOT a free society.

- Muslims have a significant violent minority that will lash out at anything - even as benign as a cartoon. Perhaps the jews should have bombed Muslim cities anytime anti-semitic cartoons have run in Muslim newspapers

- Western societies have NO tolerance for Islam's concepts of censorship pertaining to any contrary view of Islam - and God bless us for not being bullied.

- Western Idealogues have foolish ideas that somehow the middle east and the despotic regimes in Islam can be converted to democracy. Islam is completely imcompatible with democracy since the Quran is the only constitution and law that seems to matter to muslims. You may vote but that does NOT make democracy. Laws laid down centuries ago in Arabia by desert nomads and regional war lords WILL NOT be acceptable as democratic rule of law - and just because you have sworn an oath to Muhammed to believe 100% in what you're told by an ancient text and your Mullah - DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE, JUST OR RIGHT.

- Western Govts - esp the US under Bush/Neos foolishly wade into the acid pots of Muslim melting pots, ready to boil over at any provocation, interior or exterior, only heating up the flames rather than cooling them.

You have made some intelligent points, thank you.

I often wonder how Muslims cope with living in Western Countries, when so many of our practices seem to go against the teachings of the Quran.
When I go to visit Muslim Countries and I do not agree with many of their laws, is it my right to protest, especially on issues concerning Women?

Tommi

06-02-2006, 10:55 PM

I don't exactly understand why you keep mentioning westerners and their protests - we have mentioned our stance that we DO NOT condone violent or aggressive protests and this is not the way of the Prophet(Peace Be Upon Him)...you must remember out of a population of 1.2 billion Muslims the %age of Muslims engaging in these acts is a tiny minority - don't paint all Muslims with the same brush. Majority of Muslims ARE protesting this in an accepatable manner and we WILL continue to protest this in an acceptable manner God Willing. I hope the message is clearly understood.

I mention it as a comparison with current muslim outrage over the cartoons.
Our prophets, and i use the word our as in the sense that i am legally Church of England, are ridiculed daily. And we dont blow up buildings nor start revolutions.We dont threaten death. We dont even Burn Flags. Hey, i dont even know what a Syrian flag looks like. That is the point. We dont even burn flags.

The percentage of muslims may be tiny, who actually run through a Soverign Embassy. But The embassy still gets deliberatly run through and burned.
The percentage of Muslims who are suicide bombers is Tiny. Miniscule. Perhaps 2-3 a day. Killing mayby 3-30 innocent people.
On a very bad day 200. On a really bad day 3000.

There is an amazing turnout against the cartoons. Perhaps the Ummar can turn out in numbers even a tenth as strong against the Iraqi Insurgants? The Indonesian Genocides? Sudanese.....well, pick a aspect of the Sudanese Government and insert as appropriate.

VeiledOne

06-02-2006, 11:05 PM

Since when did democracy mean disrespecting other faiths?
I believe people have misinterpreted the meaning of democracy.

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/index.html

Does CNN not support democracy?

Tommi

06-02-2006, 11:20 PM

Since when did democracy mean disrespecting other faiths?
I believe people have misinterpreted the meaning of democracy.

Does CNN not support democracy?

CNN supports whatever will sell the most as a good news item.
Thats the beauty of Democracy. :p

VeiledOne

07-02-2006, 01:27 AM

CNN supports whatever will sell the most as a good news item.

You are correct and so does every news agency. However, CNN could have easily published those cartoons since on the CNN poll more than 70% of the viewers were for publishing the cartoons.
However, their resentment and statement for not publishing those cartoons shows their respect for other faiths (at least outwardly).

Spare-Flair

07-02-2006, 03:34 AM

Hello, I'm a non-Muslim posting from Canada but I have had many Muslim friends and I've had late-night discussions with a man from Afghanistan that I helped fill out immigration papers for at work.

I was interested in reading your forum to understand the Islamic response to these caricatures. I suppose the greatest difficulty the West has in understanding the violent reponse that the media is portraying is why the matter is such importantance. I understand that the Quran and Muslim teaching forbid graven images of men lest it lead to idolatry and I understand that these caricatures are offensive to you.

However, these are caricatures printed in a non-Islamic country in an non-Islamic culture. The majority of the populations in these countries are not Muslims and they cherish the freedom of speech and expression.

Even for Christians, the main teaching is: "But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." Matt 5:38-42

True, it's not practiced by many hypocritical Christians, but I'm saying that similar riots and anger don't happen when people burn bibles or burn crosses or make insulting comics of Jesus (happens all the time in Western society - even Christianity is made fun of on television and sitcoms but no violent protests occur). I suppose the point must be made that the majority of the Western world is now completely secular society and to them, Christianity or Islam or any religion is free to be discussed in open debate and it's a Western journalistic tradition to begin a debate on serious issues by first showing it in the medium of a cartoon which expresses the problem (the self-censorship of media in light of sensitive issues which is a point proven all too well) in both a humorous and easily understood form.

I suppose my main point is that things such as these caricatures of your Prophet and writings and even many things in secular societies that are anti-Islam exist, but why do you respond in this manner? I suppose this is a side-effect of globalization because in previous decades, things like this would not be so widespread, but with cell phones, television, and the internet, Islamic societies become more exposed to things they find as offensive. I've read ony many many Islamic websites that they are certain these comics were published out of malice and hatred and intended to insult and harm Muslims. But again, cartoons are a benign journalistic tradition in Western culture. The point of the cartoons functions as an art form in the Western tradition as a method of pushing the envelope of society and making people think about ideas and concepts and examine issues such as how far a newspaper will go to censor freedom of expression in light of sensitive issues. Clearly in this case, the militant response and the quick kowtowing of many newspapers the world over have proven this point. Yes there were cartoons that insulted Jews, Chinese (I am Chinese - what is the Islamic view of China?), and just about everone else throughout history but they have never incited riots and violence of such a scale in modern times. There is a painting of Jesus hanging upside-down looking like Osama Bin Laden in public display in New York!

If you believe that Alllah is almighty and all-knowing and capably and demonstrably is capable of defending Himself and punishing sinners (perhaps through natural disasters and fate), why must some Muslims take it upon themselves to take up arms and cause violence and deaths in His name? And when that is done, why is that the nearest target of convienience is chosen (whatever is European nearby) and why are an entire group of people punished for what one person might have drawn in a newspaper? What fault does an innocent worker, perhaps Danish a janitor inside a Danish Embassy have that means he deserves to be attack when one person thousands of miles away that he has never known did something to offend Muslims? Why is it always "Death to America" or "Death to Denmark" or "Death to France" for the crimes committed the few and not the innocent majority? Is this going to be a common thing, happening monthly now as globalization means more and more things are exposed to conservative Islamic societies?

And I want to say again, I think Muslims have to stop blaming Christians for attacks upon Islam. The majority of Western countries are secular, and while they may have many practicing religious people, one of the other principles is the separation of Church and state. Yes the United States is a bit different. The Sounthern US is a much more religious area and the U.S. has much more Christian Evangelism and influence in government... but there is no doubting that most of Denmark is today completely atheist and secular, as is much of Northern Europe. This is not a religion attacking another. It is secular society ridiculing all religion. We are NOT out to get you. There is NO trap. There is NO conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Clearly people are unhappy with Islamic militancy and are afraid of terrorism, but there is no secret plot to bait Muslims into reacting this way. I understand the humiliation that Muslims have felt for centuries in the West and as an Islamic scholar said, "this was the straw that broke the camel's back".

And YES, the western media does show horrible pictures of dead bodies, of bomb victims, of prison conditions, of tortured Muslims, etc. if you know where to look. These aren't shown by CNN and the mainstream obviously because it's distasteful to the families of the dead and even in secular society, it's hard to look at suffering people. Again, the majority of people in Western culture wish no harm and don't like suffering just like you.

eat-halal guy

08-02-2006, 12:25 AM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_reed/20060206.html

The power of the press: a double-edged sword

CBC News Viewpoint | February 6, 2006 |

Jim Reed - Host Newsworld International Jim Reed has worked as a researcher, writer, producer, director, reporter and news anchor for CTV, TVO and CBC. He has travelled widely and has freelanced for The Associated Press, The New York Times, The Globe and Mail and other news organizations.

If ever there was an instance where a small but hurtful act had worldwide implications, it was when a Danish newspaper hit the streets on Sept. 30, 2005. The paper featured caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, one of them depicting him wearing a turban in the form of a time bomb.

The 12 cartoons were commissioned by the conservative paper Jyllands-Posten. Since then, the caricatures have caused an uproar in the Muslim world and sparked a new battle over freedom of speech, religious tolerance and cultural sensitivity.

The original publication went almost unnoticed. There were some protests by Muslims and left-wing Danes who felt it incited hatred. Then there were counter demonstrations by right-wing groups calling the newspaper a defender of free speech and the cartoons evidence of Danish freedom.

As the weeks and months went by, the debate intensified and the anger built. Fascist and anti-immigration groups became involved. Danish Muslim clerics mounted a campaign in the Middle East, alleging discrimination in Denmark. Radical leftists burned the Danish flag and gradually feelings and attitudes became inflamed.

The crux of the issue is that, on the one hand, Muslim believers take their religion seriously: Any depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, however benign, is forbidden. Many Muslims already think that western countries hate them and with a long history of being dominated by the west, activist Muslims are increasingly sensitive to anything they see as negative.

They cite the war in Iraq and the alleged double standard that allows Israel to have nuclear weapons but forbids Iran even from enriching uranium for the production of nuclear power. Then they found yet another issue to point to as proof of western hostility – the publication of the "blasphemous" cartoons, ridiculing the Prophet, the most sacred figure in Islam. On the other hand, there is the western adherence to free speech as represented by the newspaper's decision (and right), to publish the cartoons. In order to support their Danish colleagues, several European newspapers and one in New Zealand re-published the material and then there was a major demonstration in Copenhagen.

The rest, as they say, is history. But is it?

The burning of embassies and the threats against western diplomats and institutions can't be justified by pointing the Islamic finger of blame at a little Danish paper. The anger and the violence have other causes besides that one. And there may be more fallout than we have yet seen.

The uproar over the drawings resonates with Muslim youth precisely because they are caught now between two worlds. One of those encompasses their religious beliefs and obligations. The other is entirely different, even alien, but at the same time perversely attractive to them.

That other one is the world of the secular West, with its freedom of speech and consumerism, its entertainment, gambling, alcohol and open attitude toward sexuality – all anathema to the strict rules of Islam.

Muslim youth would love to have democracy, western music, t-shirts from Wal-Mart and more freedom. Many of them secretly find Islamic law and customs restrictive, even oppressive. The problem is they don't want western secular values imposed on them by force, so when they feel coerced or insulted, it's an excuse to lash out. That's what their elders expect them to do and in some cases, encourage them to do. Grievances, old and new, some big and some trivial, fuel resentment and anger.

The American invasion of Iraq, with help from Britain and other western countries including Denmark, robbed the Iraqis – and by proxy, other Muslims – of the chance to stage their own revolution.

The campaign against Iran's nuclear development program angers the activists because it underlines the perception that there is a double standard in the West when it comes to the rights of the Muslim world.

And finally, the Danish cartoons, which poked fun at Islam, robbed this generation of Muslims of the chance to satirize their own culture and religion, just as Christians and Jews have done to theirs over the years.

As one Danish comedian said recently, "I have no problem urinating on the Christian Bible, but I'd never do it on the Koran or the Torah and that's a limit on my freedom of speech that I'm forced to accept."

Perhaps the Danish comic would like to urinate on those holy books but he's probably right to leave that job to Muslims and Jews. A little restraint on all sides is not a bad thing. Should the cartoons have been published? Probably not.

We in the West have never really understood the inextricable relationship between Islam and everyday life in the Muslim world. We need to admit that, back off a bit and work harder at understanding each other. There is plenty of racist and bigoted baggage on both sides. Moderate Muslims know this and one hopes that many of them will begin to speak out against the senseless violence we've been seeing.

Finally, we ought to allow the process of social and political change to be carried out by the people who need and want change. No one else can do it for them.

There's an ironic and telling footnote to the "freedom of the press" issue that westerners seem to feel is at the heart of this whole matter. It involves the same Danish paper. It seems that, back in 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted cartoons that lampooned Jesus. The paper refused to publish them and here's how the editor explained his decision:

"I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore I will not use them" Maybe Shakespeare applies – at least on this point – when he wrote, "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark."
(Emphasis added - SZH)

VeiledOne

08-02-2006, 02:26 AM

How should we react to the cartoon that that has been made of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam? What is the sunnah way of acting in this situation?

Answered By:Mufti Ebrahim Desai

The honour, greatness and love for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is deeply entrenched in the heart of every Muslim and is the core of Islam. Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and every Prophet of Allah is Ma’soom (sinless). They are sent as guides for mankind and direct the people to the Oneness of Allah and His obedience. The Prophets of Allah possess the highest level of knowledge of Allah. They also possess the highest level of spirituality and sound character. Every Prophet of Allah condemned disrespect and violence. They condemned Kufr (disbelief) and Shirk (ascribing partners to Allah) in a dignified manner. In Islam, we revere every Prophet of Allah and we do not tolerate any disrespect to any Prophet of Allah. If a Muslim shows any disrespect to any Prophet of Allah and hurls disgraceful remarks against him, such a person comes out of the fold of Islam. In fact, according to many Fuqahaa, the apology of such a person will not be accepted. (Rasmul Mufti)

There are two angles in the printing and publishing of the cartoons of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], a) The image of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], and b) Disrespect

Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] prohibited making pictures of animate objects. He even stated that the angels of mercy do not enter a house in which there are pictures of animate objects. (Bukhari). One of the reasons for the prohibition of making and taking pictures of animate objects is that it leads to idolatory. The desciples of Nooh (alayhimus salaam)were deeply revered and respected by their followers. After their demise, they made pictures of the desciples and placed them in their places of worship. Gradually over a period of time, the people started worshipping the disciples. Since the background of this was making pictures, and it has a potential of committing Shirk, Islam has prohibited anything that has to do with Shirk directly or indirectly. The Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhu] should not take or draw pictures. There is no picture of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] or any Sahaabi [radhiallaahu anhu].

The second angle of the cartoon of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is the utmost disrespect shown to Rasulullah in the name of ‘freedom of expression’. This has caused great pain and anger to every Muslim around the world. Every Muslim has a right to express his pain and anger. What else should Muslims do? Just feel the pain and keep quiet? This will lead to the enemies of Islam to continue such blasphemy. We cannot allow that. We do take cognisance of the fact that this act is carried out by just one or few individuals to stir up the anger of Muslims for whatever reason. It may not be appropriate for us to give in to the hands of our enemies and conduct ourselves as they want us to, but this issue does not fall in that category. We will have to stand up to such mischief and stop it.

Freedom of expression is not absolute. It has overarching principles. If freedom of expression is absolute, then freedom of religion in a democratic dispensation should also be absolute. Why does freedom of religion has overarching principles. Why are Muslims not allowed to fully practise on every aspect of Islam without any restriction whatsoever? The reason is obvious. The rights of others living as equal citizens must be considered. What then about freedom of expression and right of dignity and religious honour?

Nevertheless, Muslims living as Muslim minorities around the world should act in a responsible manner and the following is suggested:

1. Consult with Ulama and responsible people before doing anything. Do not do anything by yourself. Shura and consultation is vital in such an issue.

2. Express anger and disgust within the framework of the law of the country. Use the law of the country to its full capacity.

3. Do not be violent in any way and do not burn buildings, cars, etc.

4. Boycott all Danish products and products of anyone else who support Denmark in this issue or even sympathise with Denmark.

5. Do not confine expression of anger to the cartoon issue. Use the opportunity to express the disgust on Islamophobia in general and highlight some pertinent issues.

6. The most important in this is the issue of Da’awah. Use the opportunity to explain to the world the great personality of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. His lifestyle and character should be printed and published all around the world. This will be an eye opener to many ignorant people and a means of guidance. Take out the positive aspects from a negative one and use the situation to our advantage. Every Muslim should say and write something about our beloved Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam].

7. It is of utmost importance that we engage in lots of du’aa and Dhikr, Fasting and Sadaqaat. Make du’aa that Allah guide the Ummah in this trying times.

8. Do not conduct ourselves with our fellow non-Muslim citizens in a way that offend them and look for an opportunity to get back at us. We will then be the cause of them showing disrespect to Islam and Islamic values. Always express good character and conduct to all.

9. The most important issue in expressing our love and honour for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is following his Sunnah. Expressing our anger at the disrespect to Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is important but it will be hypocritical if we do not emulate the outward appearance, beard, dressing, etc. and noble character of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. Every one should obtain a kitaab on the Sunnats of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and implement that in our lives and pass this over to others.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

eat-halal guy

10-02-2006, 03:11 PM

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060210/cartoons_update_060210/20060210?hub=TopStories

Norway editor apologizes for reprinting cartoons

Updated Fri. Feb. 10 2006 10:02 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The editor of a small Christian newspaper in Norway has apologized for offending Muslims by reprinting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad last month.

Magazine editor Vebjoern Selbekk told a news conference Friday that he regretted publishing the cartoons and had not foreseen the pain and anger they might cause Muslims.

"I reach out personally to the Muslim community to say that I am sorry that their religious feelings were violated by what we did," Selbekk told reporters.

"It is also only right for me to admit that I, as the editor, did not understand how offensive it was to publish the copies."

The Evangelical Christian newspaper was among the first newspapers to reprint the drawings that were first published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September 2005, saying it was defending free speech.

The drawings, now widely reprinted in Europe and elsewhere, have caused violent protests in the Muslim world, including the burning of the Norwegian and Danish embassies in Syria.

Selbekk made his apology at a hastily called news conference, where he appeared with the leader of the Islamic Council in Norway, Mohammed Hamdan, and Norwegian Labour Minister Bjarne Haakon Hanssen.

The newspaper editor praised the Norwegian Islamic community for insisting on dialogue rather than violence in its response to the cartoons.

"The Muslim community has handled this in a worthy and reserved manner. They deserve honour and respect for that," Selbekk said.

Hamdan stressed that Islam values forgiveness and that Selbekk, who has received scores of death threats, was now under his protection.

"Selbekk has children the same age as my own. I want my children and his children to grow up together, and live in peace and friendship," Hamdan said.

Campaign

Meanwhile, Islamic scholar and activist Ahmed Akkari, who lives in Denmark, denied that his campaigning activities had inflamed the situation.

Appearing on Canada AM, Akkari, of the European Committee for Honouring the Prophet, said he had tried to campaign peacefully against the publishing of the cartoons in Denmark, but received no response.

"We wrote to the minister of culture, we wrote and talked to the newspaper, trying to explain what's wrong," he told AM Friday.

"We tried to take contact to officials, and nobody even bothered to give any answer on our problem."

Akkari said he was against the violence that has gripped Muslim countries across world.

"We do not feel that we are being held responsible for some things we are against, for example, this violence that has been shown on TV lately and violent acts against Danish citizens. We have condemned it very clearly," he said.