Joining a Different Madhab

[jinnzaman]

So lately, I've read some literature about the Maliki madhab and my heart has become very attached to it. I do not look down on the other schools and I will always love the Hanafi 'Ulema especially the Deobandis, but the more I study the Maliki madhab, the more I become attracted to it.

I was raised as a Hanafi, but when I was in college and began studying fiqh, I studied with Hanafi 'Ulema because it was most convenient and what I was familiar with.

But now I've been thinking of following the Maliki school. The only thing that worries me is that it will cause confusion because I might accidentally mix rulings and I want to learn Maliki fiqh from a Maliki scholar. I don't want to learn it from books. Websites like www.sunnipath.com only teach Hanafi and Shafi'i fiqh (or at least this semester).

So to those people who changed schools, what was your motivation in doing so and did you find it advantageous?

And what types of methodologies did you utilize to acquire knowledge that were reliable and prevented you from accidentally or intentionally mixing rulings?

[Goldi]

Same here bud. I have Dr. Omar's 800 word phd thesis on Imam Malik's methodology. I can send it to you on AIM.

[Abu 'Abdillah al-Maliki]

Assalamu 'alaykum

I would recommended the "guiding helper" text by Shaykh Abu Qanit. It is available on the internet, and it is a very beneficial and clear guide to the madhhab. His website is www.guidinghelper.com. I believe they have online lessons also.

I think the text of the guiding helper is available somewhere on Gibril Haddad's website www.livingislam.org.

Also, there is a good commentary on the Risalah of Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani on Sister Aisha Bewley's website http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/ . If it is not there, she has another page http://bewley.virtualave.net/.

I know that you didn't want books, but unfortunately this might be the best you can find on the internet.

[Omar HH]

Yes. You are allowed to change madhabs. The proofs is in al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah when all of Spain changed their madhab from the Dhahiri madhab to the Maliki madhab. There are more proofs but this will suffice.

The Guiding Helper is excellent for the person wanting to learn about the madhab - may Allah bless Shaykh Abu Qanit. Risalah al-Qayrawani is also very good also with the commentary - may Allah bless sister `Aisha. al-Risalah differs from the mashhur a few places but thats fine because all of it's opinions are valid.

The Guiding Helper differs from the mashhur about 5% of the time and I have a list of 16 minor points if you would like to see availible on my Maliki Fiqh Group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MalikiFiqhGroup

The list is taken from the "Notes of Sources" to the Guiding Helper and me collecting them as Shaykh Abu Qanit points out in the Notes of Sources where he differs from the mashhur and says "those who want to follow harder opinions are free to do so."

Also there is a prayer manual and other Maliki Fiqh materials on http://www.lamppostproductions.org which is a great site by Ustadh `Abdullah ibn Hamid `Ali.

My Maliki Fiqh group contains some other English (and one Arabic) Maliki Fiqh texts such as the Mukhtasar al-Akhdari, and Qadi Iyad's "Foundations of Islam" but if you still cannot find your opinion there are three Fatwa sites:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tariqul-Islam which is Ustadh `Abdullah's Q&A site.

fatwaa@gmail.com which is Shaykh Rami Nsour of Zaytuna Institute's fatwa email.

alaraki@yahoo.com which is Shaykh `Ali al-`Iraqi al-Sharif al-Husayni's email address - he wrote a few things for the Guiding Helper Foundation including an Arabic text on Tassawuf as well as "Fatwa and Qada in the Maliki School" and parts of the Guiding Helper translated into Spanish. May Allah reward him.

Also the Online Lesson archives on http://www.guidinghelper.com are extremely useful in teaching Maliki fiqh as well as `Aqeedah and Tassawuf.

I used to not like fiqh too much until I became a Maliki - the school of Ahl al-Madina and the great Imam Malik. The school of Andalusia and Morocco - of those great Malikis `Abdal Rahman ibn Qassim, Sahnun, Ibn Rushd, Qadi Abu Bakr ibn `Arabi, Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani, Imam al-Dardir, and my favorite:

Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi!

Wa Bi Allahi Tawfiq,

I hope I have given you enough resources.

The Guiding Helper Foundation also published a literal English translation of al-Murshid al-Mu`in EXACTLY from the Arabic for FREE which is availible here:

http://guidinghelper.com/pdf/Murshid_Translation.pdf

As well as two great translated Tassawuf texts - al-Hikam al-`Ataiyyah with the Sharh of Ibn `Abbad:

http://guidinghelper.com/pdf/hikam4web.pdf

As well as al-Mabahith al-Asliyah of Ibn al-Banna which basically explains what Tassawuf is in immense detail:

http://guidinghelper.com/pdf/MA_Explanation.pdf

For the exact text of the Guiding Helper Explanatory Notes and Notes of Sources they are here though:

http://guidinghelper.com/pdf/GH_Explanation.pdf
http://guidinghelper.com/pdf/GH_MainText_Sources.pdf

As well as - but this is not their translation - the Sharh of the Hikam by Ibn `Ajibah:

http://guidinghelper.com/pdf/hikam_ibn_ajibah.pdf

All for free with permission to copy and even sell as long as you do not alter it (check the copyrights before the books for more details).

Wa Bi Allahi Tawfiq,

Omar.

[muhammadnur]

As Salaam Alaikum,

As far as finding teachers, if you're near the Philly area you probably can find a teacher. Ustadh Abdullah mentioned in Omar's post teaches in the Philly area. But other than that for the basics of the madhab the websites already listed are excellent. The guiding helper alone should give you plenty to get started with. If you want to learn deeper than the basics you would be hard pressed in certain areas to find Maliki teachers. But when the student is ready the teacher will come. :)

Muhammad-Nur

[Omar HH]

As Salaam Alaikum,

As far as finding teachers, if you're near the Philly area you probably can find a teacher. Ustadh Abdullah mentioned in Omar's post teaches in the Philly area. But other than that for the basics of the madhab the websites already listed are excellent. The guiding helper alone should give you plenty to get started with. If you want to learn deeper than the basics you would be hard pressed in certain areas to find Maliki teachers. But when the student is ready the teacher will come. :)

Muhammad-Nur

Shaykh Abu Qanit was trying to hook people up with teachers a while ago - like what we said you have to have a teacher to really learn the state (hal) of the teacher as well as the spirit of the Din and not it's form. Shaykh Abu Qanit realized this but he also realized the teachers are all dying. Actually thats why he wrote the Guidinghelper - to preserve the Din in English for the coming generations in case all the teachers die out.

But for now he DOES encourage getting a Maliki teacher and Shaykh `Ali al-`Iraqi teaches the Guiding Helper as well as the Risalah al-Qayrawani in England. There was also another teacher in England who seems to have stopped teaching maybe (wa Allahu `Alam).

Wassalam,

Omar.

[Kareem]

if you know where to look learning from books and the net isnt so bad. many (including me) have no other choice

btw, what is the literature that made you want to concider this, i wanna read too. and could you send that file to me aswell goldi?

[IlyasLahoz]

Sidi Goldi!
Can a brother get a disertation?
http://www.yousendit.com/ ;)

[Salim]

As others said, it is permissible to switch madhabs. I am one of those people who has done so and in particular from the hanafi to maliki madhabs. I would rather not discuss my reasons, but it suffices to say they weren't all great reasons and I pray that Abu Hanifa (ra) does not complain against me on the Day of Judgement. I am not trying to discourage you from switching, just make sure it is the right thing to do before you do it.

I do very rarely have "hanafi moments" where I flashback to my hanafi days and confuse myself, but I think I have that out of my system now. For everyday type of knowledge none of the madhabs are honestly that complicated that you would have any difficulty figuring things out, so you shouldn't worry about that. I believe that Sunnipath is eventually going to have Maliki fiqh classes again as soon as they get someone to teach it. Insha'allah that will be soon.

I do not know how beneficial changing was. Maybe slightly. It is a little more flexible for dealing with a few situations that come up. It was definately beneficial for the fact that it gave me such a deeper appreciation of how much depth and breadth there is in our din by knowing just the basics of two madhabs (although I am slowly forgetting my hanafi stuff).

I basically used the resources everyone else gave and had some local Maliki laymen types give me some practical guidance. I also had some recourse to some people of knowledge, but it wasn't constant at all. I am memorizing the Murshid (the translation) right now and I am finding that very beneficial even if I just got started not too long ago and it is a bit slow going. The biggest thing to avoid unintentional mixing is just to ingrain the new stuff in your brain along with good old practical application of what you learn.

I had a question though. Does Rami Nsour answer questions from anyone who asks him or is it just people he knows?

[jinnzaman]

Alhumdillah, I already have Dr. Umar Abdullah's dissertation on the Maliki madhab. Thanks for the offer Goldi. Do you want Dr. Abdul Hakeem Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio?

In terms of switching schools, I want to have a solid source of knowledge. As much as useful the internet is, I'd rather have a list of 'Ulema who I could call up regarding Maliki fiqh questions.

[Omar HH]

Same here bud. I have Dr. Omar's 800 word phd thesis on Imam Malik's methodology. I can send it to you on AIM.

I have that too lol.

Wassalam,

Omar.

[Omar HH]

As others said, it is permissible to switch madhabs. I am one of those people who has done so and in particular from the hanafi to maliki madhabs. I would rather not discuss my reasons, but it suffices to say they weren't all great reasons and I pray that Abu Hanifa (ra) does not complain against me on the Day of Judgement. I am not trying to discourage you from switching, just make sure it is the right thing to do before you do it.

I do very rarely have "hanafi moments" where I flashback to my hanafi days and confuse myself, but I think I have that out of my system now. For everyday type of knowledge none of the madhabs are honestly that complicated that you would have any difficulty figuring things out, so you shouldn't worry about that. I believe that Sunnipath is eventually going to have Maliki fiqh classes again as soon as they get someone to teach it. Insha'allah that will be soon.

I do not know how beneficial changing was. Maybe slightly. It is a little more flexible for dealing with a few situations that come up. It was definately beneficial for the fact that it gave me such a deeper appreciation of how much depth and breadth there is in our din by knowing just the basics of two madhabs (although I am slowly forgetting my hanafi stuff).

I basically used the resources everyone else gave and had some local Maliki laymen types give me some practical guidance. I also had some recourse to some people of knowledge, but it wasn't constant at all. I am memorizing the Murshid (the translation) right now and I am finding that very beneficial even if I just got started not too long ago and it is a bit slow going. The biggest thing to avoid unintentional mixing is just to ingrain the new stuff in your brain along with good old practical application of what you learn.

I had a question though. Does Rami Nsour answer questions from anyone who asks him or is it just people he knows?

EVERYONE.

He's very nice.

But I think he's more Mauritanian madhab instead of the Moroccan view on things from some of the different opinions he's given me on a few smaller things.

Wa Bi Allahi Tawfiq,
Omar.

[Omar HH]

Alhumdillah, I already have Dr. Umar Abdullah's dissertation on the Maliki madhab. Thanks for the offer Goldi. Do you want Dr. Abdul Hakeem Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio?

In terms of switching schools, I want to have a solid source of knowledge. As much as useful the internet is, I'd rather have a list of 'Ulema who I could call up regarding Maliki fiqh questions.

You could email those people.

You can also take Maliki Fiqh on Sunnipath when they have it again. Insha Allah I will take that one which is based on Aqrab al-Masalik (a reliable book in the madhab by Imam al-Dardir but contains SOME of the views of the madhab of Egypt).

Wassalam,

Omar.

[Kareem]

lol everyone email the literature to me aswell

[Omar HH]

Everyone has Dr. Umar's thesis but has anyone actually read it?

lol.

[muhammadnur]

Alhumdillah, I already have Dr. Umar Abdullah's dissertation on the Maliki madhab. Thanks for the offer Goldi. Do you want Dr. Abdul Hakeem Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio?

In terms of switching schools, I want to have a solid source of knowledge. As much as useful the internet is, I'd rather have a list of 'Ulema who I could call up regarding Maliki fiqh questions.


salaam,

I definitely want Dr. Abdul Hakeem's dissertation could you send it to me?

Muhammad-Nur

[muhammadnur]

As Salaam Alaikum,

There's also a live phone conference hosted by the Jamaat of Uthman dan Fodio every Sunday starting at 12:30pm. Right now they're going over a basic Maliki text by Abdullahi dan Fodio . We covered wudu and ghusl today. I'm assuming they are going to progress to more advanced texts as time progresses. You can get the phone number to call in from

http://yantaru.org/education.php

Muhammad-Nur

[Goldi]

Alhumdillah, I already have Dr. Umar Abdullah's dissertation on the Maliki madhab. Thanks for the offer Goldi. Do you want Dr. Abdul Hakeem Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio?

In terms of switching schools, I want to have a solid source of knowledge. As much as useful the internet is, I'd rather have a list of 'Ulema who I could call up regarding Maliki fiqh questions.

Alhumdillah, I already have Dr. Abdul Hakeem Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio. Thanks for the offer jinnzaman. Do you want Dr. Mohammed Fadl's dissertation on 'The Social Logic of Taqlid and the Rise of the Mukhtasar'?


btw, for all the brothers looking for Dr Umar's thesis, I've uploaded it on my server right here (http://www.goldenfoto.com/Umar Faruq Abd-Allah.pdf) (right click and save as). Im warning you though, it's 36 megs. For fastest speeds, I recommend you guys get in touch with me through AIM (AOL Instant Messenger). let me know here if you are coming online.

[Kareem]

Alhumdillah, I already have Dr. Abdul Hakeem Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio. Thanks for the offer jinnzaman. Do you want Dr. Mohammed Fadl's dissertation on 'The Social Logic of Taqlid and the Rise of the Mukhtasar'?
.jazakallah for the pdf bro

could you upload these two aswell :$

[Goldi]

Mohammed Fadl's dissertation on the 'Social Logic of Taqlid and the rise of the Mukhtasar': here (http://www.goldenfoto.com/Fadel's Taqlid.pdf)

Dr. Abdullah Hakim Quick's dissertation on Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio: here (http://www.goldenfoto.com/Quick - Uthman Fudi.pdf)

[jinnzaman]

jazakallah khairun.

I've started going through Lamp Post Production's guide to prayer and inshaAllah, i'm going to check out the guiding helper.

[Omar HH]

Yeah the Lamp Post guide is very good and almost 100% identical to the Guidinghelper when I checked it. They are both based on the same Arabic book.

Wassalam.

[jinnzaman]

ive also joined the Maliki fiqh group.

[Abdur_Rahman]

As others said, it is permissible to switch madhabs. I am one of those people who has done so and in particular from the hanafi to maliki madhabs. I would rather not discuss my reasons, but it suffices to say they weren't all great reasons and I pray that Abu Hanifa (ra) does not complain against me on the Day of Judgement. I am not trying to discourage you from switching, just make sure it is the right thing to do before you do it.


:salam:


Why would Imam Abu Hanifa :rahim: complain against you on yawmul qiyamah? Isn't this a bit of a 'stretch' or exagerration? :confused:
Because you've decided to take a liking to another school of fiqh.

:ws:

[Omar HH]

I do not think the brother is being serious.

Obvioulsy one cannot be punished for doing something mubah.

Wa Bi Allahi Tawfiq,

Omar.

[Kareem]

Yeah the Lamp Post guide is very good and almost 100% identical to the Guidinghelper when I checked it. They are both based on the same Arabic book.

Wassalam.
i like the glorifications they narrate for ruku and sujood. where do they come from? the sunnah?

[Abdur_Rahman]

I do not think the brother is being serious.

Obvioulsy one cannot be punished for doing something mubah.

Wa Bi Allahi Tawfiq,

Omar.

:salam:

Omar, I was just stating the obvious and the apparent.

:jazak:

:ws:

[jinnzaman]

Does anyone have any explanations of Al Masalih al Mursala from Maliki 'Ulema?

I've read Mohammed Abu Zahra's piece on it.

The brothers from Hizb e Tehrir seem to percieve it as a utilitarian principle taht undermines the Shariah.

[jinnzaman]

Everyone has Dr. Umar's thesis but has anyone actually read it?

lol.


I've gone through different sections, but I haven't read the entire thing. This was one of two texts that really convinced me to consider joining the Maliki madhab, the other being Ibn Taymeeyah's defense of the Maliki madhab, which also presented very convincing arguments.

Also, what is the Maliki madhab's position on:
1. The Length and type of the beard
2. Joining prayers while travelling
3. Reciting behind an Imam during congregation in a silent prayer

[Kareem]

Does anyone have any explanations of Al Masalih al Mursala from Maliki 'Ulema?

I've read Mohammed Abu Zahra's piece on it.

The brothers from Hizb e Tehrir seem to percieve it as a utilitarian principle taht undermines the Shariah.
on Aisha bewleys website it has the figh portion of the book(the four imams) but it has al of it. the book is condensed and has much less infomation

[Kareem]

I've gone through different sections, but I haven't read the entire thing. This was one of two texts that really convinced me to consider joining the Maliki madhab, the other being Ibn Taymeeyah's defense of the Maliki madhab, which also presented very convincing arguments.

Also, what is the Maliki madhab's position on:
1. The Length and type of the beard
2. Joining prayers while travelling
3. Reciting behind an Imam during congregation in a silent prayer
from what i know reciting behind the imam in a silent prayer is mandub

[Omar HH]

Also, what is the Maliki madhab's position on:
1. The Length and type of the beard

The beard or "lihya" consists of the hair below and above the lips - thus the hair on the chin the hair between the lips and the chin and the moustache. It is Sunnah to trim the moustache. It is also Sunnah to let the beard grow but not Wajib. It is halal to trim the beard but it is haram if it results in "disfigurement" and makes you look like a woman.

2. Joining prayers while travelling

One may only join prayers while traveling if they contribute to the person traveling getting to his destination faster. If they do not speed this up (like on an airplane) one is not allowed to join prayers while traveling according to the mashhur.

3. Reciting behind an Imam during congregation in a silent prayer

Reciting behind the imam is mandub and one is not required to even read the Fatiha behind the Imam in a congregational prayer.

Wassalam.

[Kareem]

Also, what is the Maliki madhab's position on:
1. The Length and type of the beard

The beard or "lihya" consists of the hair below and above the lips - thus the hair on the chin the hair between the lips and the chin and the moustache. It is Sunnah to trim the moustache. It is also Sunnah to let the beard grow but not Wajib. It is halal to trim the beard but it is haram if it results in "disfigurement" and makes you look like a woman.

2. Joining prayers while travelling

One may only join prayers while traveling if they contribute to the person traveling getting to his destination faster. If they do not speed this up (like on an airplane) one is not allowed to join prayers while traveling according to the mashhur.

3. Reciting behind an Imam during congregation in a silent prayer

Reciting behind the imam is mandub and one is not required to even read the Fatiha behind the Imam in a congregational prayer.

Wassalam.you have hair between the lips?! you might want to have that looked at

[Omar HH]

Guidinghelper:

f) Ma��la��ah Mursalah (establishing a legal ruling (based on and conforming to principles
narrated in the primary texts) due to an extreme necessity, non-essential human need, or for the
promotion of praiseworthy conduct)

Muhammad Abu Zahra:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/usul10.html

Wassalam.

[jinnzaman]

Guidinghelper:

f) Ma􀃑la􀂭ah Mursalah (establishing a legal ruling (based on and conforming to principles
narrated in the primary texts) due to an extreme necessity, non-essential human need, or for the
promotion of praiseworthy conduct)

Muhammad Abu Zahra:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/usul10.html

Wassalam.


Jazakallah khairun.

This is the article I was referring too above in a previous post. Several brothers from Hizb e Tehrir have pointed out objections to this principle on the grounds that it reduces Islam to a sort of "Western Utilitarianism".

I have a book by Qadi Iyad explaining the basics of the Maliki Madhab, but unfortunately, I left it at home.

Anyhow, jazakallah khairun. I think I have enough resources to get started with. :)

[jinnzaman]

jazakallah khairun br. Mudasser, the article on the social logic of taqleed by Mohammed Fadel is very interesting.

[Goldi]

jazakallah khairun br. Mudasser, the article on the social logic of taqleed by Mohammed Fadel is very interesting.

Waiyyak br. Khuram. Please do share your Maliki research with me as I am very interested in your potential findings.

[jinnzaman]

So. . . if one is Maliki and wants to marry a Hanafi sister without her wali's permission, is the marriage legitimate?

[Omar HH]

So. . . if one is Maliki and wants to marry a Hanafi sister without her wali's permission, is the marriage legitimate?

Yes. No marrying without Walis. Everything runs with Walis in our marriage! :cheesygri you can always follow Abu Hanifa on marriage and Imam Malik on everything else. Do not be turned of madhab `amal ahlul madina.

[jinnzaman]

No, alhumdillah, I'm sticking with the Maliki madhab.

I was just curious what to do in issues of conflict. Since I'm desi, I will most likely end up marrying a Hanafi but I was trying to figure out if that was going to cause fiqh conflicts but the only thing I could think of is the Wali.

[Omar HH]

Sweet new Maliki.

Our madhab is the fastest growing from what I have seen, the closest to the Sunnah according to Ibn Taymiyah, based upon `Amal Ahlul Madina, by the Imam that was Prophecized by the Prophet :saw: from Madina! We definetly got that STYLE.

By the way now you don't have to worry about Deobandi Bralewi!