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sunni sahib
02-09-2004, 01:17 PM
Assalam u Alaikum

What is the opinion of the British Deobandi community on him ?

Wassalam

Abdul
02-09-2004, 03:18 PM
I asked one of my teachers, and he said that no body even knows him from the deobandi scholars. His not some big deobandi scholar. Afterwards, hebegan to say that the prophets are not alive in their graves, becuase of which many deobandi Ulema refuted him. He from a sect in Pakistan known as "mamatis" who dont believe in the prophets being alive. A sort of Wahhabi.

sunni sahib
02-09-2004, 04:45 PM
I asked one of my teachers, and he said that no body even knows him from the deobandi scholars. His not some big deobandi scholar. Afterwards, hebegan to say that the prophets are not alive in their graves, becuase of which many deobandi Ulema refuted him. He from a sect in Pakistan known as "mamatis" who dont believe in the prophets being alive. A sort of Wahhabi.

Assalam u Alaikum

I just asked because the Deobandi ulama host him in the North of England such as Huddersfield / Sheffield and also Midlands.

He is referred to as Munazre Ahle Sunnat by these scholars. Yes I have a debate of his with Allama Saeed Asad. I understand he was also supossed to be debating with a young alim Shaykh Thaqib Iqbal buit backed out in the last minute.

I'm just suprised that certain Deobandis entertain him.

Is Maulana Wutu who speaks along with him often have the same aqaid as him as well as Imdad ul Hasan Numani.

Wassalam

Aamir
03-09-2004, 03:16 PM
Assalam u Alaikum

I just asked because the Deobandi ulama host him in the North of England such as Huddersfield / Sheffield and also Midlands.

He is referred to as Munazre Ahle Sunnat by these scholars. Yes I have a debate of his with Allama Saeed Asad. I understand he was also supossed to be debating with a young alim Shaykh Thaqib Iqbal buit backed out in the last minute.

I'm just suprised that certain Deobandis entertain him.

Is Maulana Wutu who speaks along with him often have the same aqaid as him as well as Imdad ul Hasan Numani.

Wassalam


Slam alaikum, Yeah brother ive also heard similar stories about his aweeda in relation Hayat un nabi..in fact ive actually heard a debate between Maulana Yunus Nomani and Maulana Amin Okarvi (both deobandis) debateing the issue of hayat un nabi.

Muawiyah
04-09-2004, 09:02 PM
Isn't Yunus Nu'maani sahib is one of those who were dismissed from the Jami'at Isha'at ut-Tawheed was-Sunnah along with Ahmad Sa'eed? These were some of the people who back in the eighties made statements against the belief that Ambiyaa 'alyhimussalaam hear what is said at their graves. Maybe he has made rujoo`?

Aamir
05-09-2004, 08:26 PM
Bro Mawiyah if you would kindly give us more info on that issue u r refering to.

Maulana Yunus Numani allegedley has certain beliefs regarding hayat un nabi which are not in conformity with the rest of the ulama e deoband.

Muawiyah
07-09-2004, 12:01 AM
I don't know about Maulana Yunus Nu'mani personally other than he took part in some debates in the eighties.

The fitnah over hayaat ul ambiyaa 'alyhimussalaam between Isha'at ut-Tawheedi was Sunnah arose towards the end of the fifties. In 1962 it was resolved by Hadhrat Qari Muhammad Tayyib sahib rahimahullah during his visit to Pakistan Later many of the young members of Isha'at ut-Tawheedi was Sunnah started opposing what had been agreed upon, the more extreme of these were kicked out of the party since then the controversy has been cooled down considerably.

Abu Usama
25-09-2004, 03:12 PM
Salam,

my teacher knows Yunus Numani since childhood and they both studied under Maulana Yusuf Binori in Pakistan. I asked him about this and he said that Yunus Nu'mani has departed from the mainstream on these issues and that Yunus Numani has gone to the extent of doing takfeer upon his own teacher (which is recorded on casette).

Aamir
25-09-2005, 04:07 PM
Ayaozobillah..he did takfeer on Allama Binnori (rahimmullah). :cry:

There is this other guy Called Qari Chan Muhammed.. apparently he is a mamati too. Anyone heard of him??

Out of 100% ..what percentage of the deobandi community would you guys consdier as being mamatis?

Abu Suliman
25-09-2005, 08:07 PM
Ayaozobillah..he did takfeer on Allama Binnori (rahimmullah). :cry:

There is this other guy Called Qari Chan Muhammed.. apparently he is a mamati too. Anyone heard of him??

Out of 100% ..what percentage of the deobandi community would you guys consdier as being mamatis?

What i heard is that he called Hazrat Moulana Yusaf Ludhanwie Shaheed(rah) Kafir.Chan Muhammad is student of Yunas Numanee, i dont know what percentage Deobandies are mamatie i would say they are very few.
Also you dont get many masjids in uk inviting Yunas Numanee for speeches after they found out hes beliefs and hes disrespect to elders.

navman35
26-03-2006, 08:15 PM
iv met allamah younas nomani and i think he is a top alim and one of the best munazir that deobandis had,but i dont think any deobandis can confront him on his aqeeda issues

Aamir
26-03-2006, 08:32 PM
Its a shame cos ive heard him debate brelwis n ahle hadith and he is very good as is ee his talents going to waste as a mamaatee.. Inshallah i hope he joins the mainstream deobandi ulama

Abu Suliman
26-03-2006, 08:35 PM
iv met allamah younas nomani and i think he is a top alim and one of the best munazir that deobandis had,but i dont think any deobandis can confront him on his aqeeda issues

A top aalim does not disrespect hes teachers even if he disagrees with them.
and he is not a deobandi they believe in hayaat un nabi(saw) and he does not he is part of a sect called paanj piri's who more like Ahle hadeeth in aqeedah.
many deobandies confronted him on this issue when he comes to uk he avoids these questions most people now know about hes aqeedah thats why he is not invited to many masjids to do speeches anymore.

navman35
26-03-2006, 08:36 PM
wats wrong with the mamatees?

Abu Suliman
26-03-2006, 08:43 PM
wats wrong with the mamatees?

may be this will help Insha'Allah.

http://www.shariahboard.com/fatwa/Miscellaneous/393.php

navman35
26-03-2006, 08:50 PM
i think ther is a lot of misunderstanding.iv askd allama younas nomani many q also regarding hayat ul ambiya.he believes in hayat.

Aamir
26-03-2006, 09:02 PM
If he had the same aqqedah ther wouldnt be a problem..

Btother what is panj piri and pls give us some more info aboutt his group i.e. foundsrs and some history aboutt hem

navman35
26-03-2006, 09:13 PM
If he had the same aqqedah ther wouldnt be a problem..

Btother what is panj piri and pls give us some more info aboutt his group i.e. foundsrs and some history aboutt hem
1st i thing u need 2 find out wat is your aqeeda regarding hayatul ambiya.
if som1 says he is qaeel(belives) in hayatulambiya.then u cnt argue with it if u believe the same thing but if som1 says he dsnt beleive then he needs to present his daleel.
cuz u mensioned abt panjpeeri so u need 2 tell me wat it is.

navman35
27-03-2006, 05:27 PM
A top aalim does not disrespect hes teachers even if he disagrees with them.
and he is not a deobandi they believe in hayaat un nabi(saw) and he does not he is part of a sect called paanj piri's who more like Ahle hadeeth in aqeedah.
many deobandies confronted him on this issue when he comes to uk he avoids these questions most people now know about hes aqeedah thats why he is not invited to many masjids to do speeches anymore.

alamah younas nomani has not disrespected any of his ustaads.who ever told u this he must hav lied.
allama y nomani is qaeel on hayatuambiya.if u believe he dsnt then tell me what exactly he believes and wer dose he go wrong.iv asked many pple regarding this issue about the aqeeda of ulamaedeoband on hayatul ambia.they dnt hav a clue even some molvis n imaams of local mosques,so how can they say somthing on som1 elses aqeeda when they dnt even knw ther own aqeedah.
allama younas nomani differs on the issue of ahayatul ambia not upon ahayatulambia.
ive asked him on this issue he has made it clear that anyone who dosnt believe in aqeed e hayatul ambia is out of ahlesunnah al jamat.
the reason some molvis dnt call him to ther mosque is because of politics.

Aamir
27-03-2006, 06:50 PM
Brother the issue of hayatun nabi (sallahu alyhi wassalam) is best left for the scholars, but you mentione he doesent differ withth emain steam deobandi scholars - i gotta disagree on that as he has debated with Mulana Amin Okarvi deobandi on the issue - if there was no difference then why debate on it. Wallahu alam

Abu Suliman
27-03-2006, 07:10 PM
alamah younas nomani has not disrespected any of his ustaads.who ever told u this he must hav lied.
allama y nomani is qaeel on hayatuambiya.if u believe he dsnt then tell me what exactly he believes and wer dose he go wrong.iv asked many pple regarding this issue about the aqeeda of ulamaedeoband on hayatul ambia.they dnt hav a clue even some molvis n imaams of local mosques,so how can they say somthing on som1 elses aqeeda when they dnt even knw ther own aqeedah.
allama younas nomani differs on the issue of ahayatul ambia not upon ahayatulambia.
ive asked him on this issue he has made it clear that anyone who dosnt believe in aqeed e hayatul ambia is out of ahlesunnah al jamat.
the reason some molvis dnt call him to ther mosque is because of politics.

brother an aalim from karachi told me he disrespected Hazrat Moulana Yusaf Ludhanviyee Shaheed(rah) and i also he has been thrown out of the jamaat of mamatee's tauheed ishaat al sunnah.
there is no politics he disrespects akaabirs so masjids dont invite him anymore he was allowed the first year he came to do speeches in most masjids not anymore when they found out hes aqeedah and hes disrespect.

navman35
27-03-2006, 07:36 PM
Brother the issue of hayatun nabi (sallahu alyhi wassalam) is best left for the scholars, but you mentione he doesent differ withth emain steam deobandi scholars - i gotta disagree on that as he has debated with Mulana Amin Okarvi deobandi on the issue - if there was no difference then why debate on it. Wallahu alam

what really upsets me is that a lot of molvis go and cretesice by saying don't go near such a such moulana cuz he has a wrong aqeeda and then they put fatwas on then such as sayin dont read namaz behind them thay r mamatees but when u ask them 2 explain about aqeeda e mamatee or even explain ur own they then say leave the issue,and we fall in the same trap. thats y i wld like 2know what is ur aqeeda or what understanding du have about ur own aqeeda or even therz.i do believe u hav a lot of misunderstanding about the issue.
im a great fan of master mohammed ameen safdar owkarwi (r.a).it is important to be fair.u have to remamber master ameen owkarwi was a mudaee in that munazarah so it was his job to do wazahat of his aqeedah but sad to say troughout all that manzarah master ameen(r.a) did not do wazahat.
i only accept the apinions of the muatabar(recognised) ulama not local molvis who dnt hav a clue

navman35
27-03-2006, 08:13 PM
brother an aalim from karachi told me he disrespected Hazrat Moulana Yusaf Ludhanviyee Shaheed(rah) and i also he has been thrown out of the jamaat of mamatee's tauheed ishaat al sunnah.
there is no politics he disrespects akaabirs so masjids dont invite him anymore he was allowed the first year he came to do speeches in most masjids not anymore when they found out hes aqeedah and hes disrespect.

brother u said before that he desrespected his ustaads.hazrat mufti ludhyanvi shaheed(r.a) was a great scholar but was not his ustaad.ther is a few years in age deffrent between mufti yousaf ludhiyanvi shaheed(r.a) and allama younas nomani.ive actually heard that cassette.all he did was jarrah on the statment which mufti sahib(r.a) made,but no alim said that what younas nomani said was wrong cuz they new mufti sahib(r.a) made a mistake and we all know that no body is perfect.insted they started saying he disrespacted him.if that was the case then hazrat mufti nizaamudeen shamuzaee (r.a) was also sitting in that bayan and allama y nomani had dawat in his house straight after the bayan .so how come he dnt say he desrespacted him.
for an alim 2 say somthing 2 another alim on the same level is nothing wrong.if u read or look u will realise ulamah hav always done jarah or radh on each other and that has been going on for centuries.ther is nothing wrong with that i can giv u many quotes on this.but if his mareeds or even his student got upset then thay will have 2 liv with it.it happence all the tym.
brother u dnt know about the politics that goes on because iv sat with those same molvis who started this issue.
those molvis who started this issue did it over personal issues,they already knew about this issue on hayat.it was descused before allama younas nomani came 2 the uk.thats y even till today chief justice shaikh ul islam allamah DR.khalid mahmood of manchester lets him do bayan every year in his academy.

navman35
11-05-2006, 07:58 PM
moulana younas nomani is coming to england in a weeks tym so if anyone has questions regarding this issue of hayat al ambia r welcome to ask

Aamir
13-05-2006, 10:19 AM
Brother navman.. where is he gona be talking

abuhajira
13-05-2006, 11:14 AM
:salam:

Before discussing such sort of matter It is better too see what the Ulama's stance on it is.




Question

what is noor .what its means when we say that our prophet(peace be upon Him ) is noor. is our soul is noor .? is our beloved prophet(peace be upon Him ) and friends of Allah(Olia-Allah) souls is travelling allaround the world .

2) we believe that our prophet(peace be upon Him ) is alive .what this mean .what sort of this life can our prophet(peace be upon Him ) knows what we do through angels or Himself .is our prophet(peace be upon Him ) knows about every ommuttee(followers).

3) what is the status of love with our prophet(peace be upon Him ) .is conducting Mehfele-Naat is allow .what good ways that we adopt to gain love with our prophet(peace be upon Him) other than Quran and Sunnah (means that is not directly prove by Quran and sunnah but we can conduct )

4) can we said that both Brailvee and Deobandees groups of Hanfi fiq are right as we siad that all four imams are right .??

5) some muslims says that parents of our beloved prophet(peace be upon Him ) is not muslims .they are mushrik .what u say about .i heard that wahabies (Najdi),people of saudia Arabia say all these things .i also heard that Ibne tayymiah said that .is these information are right .if a person belive that parents of our prophet(peace be upon Him ) is mushrik then he is muslim ??.

Answer


1. Rasulullah (Sallallahu-Alaihiwasallam) was certainly a human being as also mentioned in the Quran and Ahadith. Allah Ta'ala also refers to him as Noor (light) as his teachings were means of guidance and light for people. The explanation of Rasulullah being Noor and not a human being is incorrect.

2. Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is alive in his blessed grave. This is also the condition with every Prophet. The earth does not consume them. Allah Ta’ala informs Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] about his Ummah through the angels. Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is not Aalmul Ghayb and he is not like Allah who knows everything directly.

3. The love for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is an integral part of Islam. We are ordered to obey Allah and His Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. Love and obedience are closely linked. When a person loves someone, he obeys the person. Allah states, ‘Say (Oh Muhammad) if your fathers, your children, your brothers, your wives, your family, your wealth that you have accumulated and your business which you fear its loss and your houses which you love are more beloved that Allah and His Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], then wait until Allah brings his order (punishment).

It is clear from this verse that the love for Allah and His Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] should supercede all love, including love for near ones and dear things. This is further explained in the following Hadith. Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] said, ‘None of you can be a perfect believer until I am more beloved to you than his father, child and all of mankind.’ There are two types of love – natural and inculcative. The example of natural love is the love between the mother and her child. It is a love beyond any reason. That is the type of love an Ummati should have for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and that was the type of love the Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhum] had for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. They fully complied with the order of the Qur’aan and Hadith regarding the extent of the love for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. Consider two incidents:

Incident One: One Sahaabi was taken as captive by the enemies and he was about to be killed. Abu Jahl asked him, don’t you wish that Muhammad be in your place? The Sahaabi replied, ‘I am fully aware of my condition. If I die, my wife will be a widow, my children will become orphans, I will be brutally killed inspite of being in this condition and this frame of mind I cannot bear even hearing that a thorn has pricked the mubaarak feet of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. The pain of the thorn pricking Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is more severe to me than the spear wounding my entire body.

Incident 2: A woman sacrificed her father, husband and three sons in a battle. They all became Shaheed. She was informed about each one of them. Upon hearing the news of the death of all her beloved ones, She replied, ‘Innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji’oon’ but would ask about Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. When she finally seen Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], she said, ‘O Prophet of Allah, every difficulty after seeing you is easy.’

The books of history are replete with such expressions of love. The second type of love is an inculcative one. One may love a person because of his outward experience, his character or his favours. Each one of these is fully found in the personality of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. This brief forum does not allow us to discuss all this in detail. The most effective way of inculcating the love for Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] is to obtain authentic literature about Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and study his life. When one understands the lifestyle of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and his mission, then one will truly appreciate Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and his great position. That will help build love and the expressions of love will naturally die.

4. Your question is not clear.

5. Refer to 3 above.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai


AND



Q. What Aqeedah should we have for the people that are dead? Some people say the Prophets are alive in their graves, is this true? please give me evidence.

Answer:
In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

"Muhammad is a man, but not like men;
He is an emerald, and others mere stone."

The belief (Aqidah) of the mainstream Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah is that our beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and all the other Prophets are alive in their graves.

This life is physical and worldly (dunyawiyyah), and not just a spiritual one with the soul (barzakhiyyah), as the latter is common for all the people. They are usually involved in performing prayer and worshiping Allah (out of their own free choice without it being obligatory on them), and we can normally not see or feel them.

This is the Aqidah held by the Sunni Muslims throughout the ages, and many books in Arabic have been written on this subject. The great Imam Suyuti (Allah have mercy on him) compiled a whole work on this subject titled 'Inba al-Azkiya bi Hayat al-Anbiya' (Informing the intelligent regarding the living of the Prophets), in which he quoted many evidences in support of this belief. Similarly, other scholars such as: Imam al-Bayhaqi, Imam Abdul Wahhab al-Sha'rani and Imam Ibn al-Qayyim in his book 'al-Ruh' (The Soul) have also written and gathered evidences with regards to this.

Evidences on the prophets remaining alive in their graves:

There are many evidences in the Qur'an, Hadith and sayings of the predecessors regarding the prophets remaining alive after death. Some are reproduced here:

1) Allah Most High says:

"And Question thou our Messengers whom we sent before you. Did we appoint any deities other that Allah, Most gracious, to be worshiped"? (Surah al-Zukhruf, 45).

Many commentators have stated in their respective exegeses of the Holy Qur'an that the living of the Prophets can be proved from this verse (See: Durr al-Manthur of Suyuti, Ruh al-Ma'ani by al-Alusi and others).

2) Allah Most High says:

"And say not of those who are slain (martyred) in the way of Allah, "they are dead", nay, they are living, though you perceive it not" (Surah al-Baqarah, 154).

Regarding this verse, the great Hadith expert (hafidh), Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) states in his monumental commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari, 'Fath al-Bari':

"When the living of the martyrs is proven from the text of the Qur'an, then this is also proven from a analogical point of view. And the Prophets are superior then the martyrs" (Fath al-Bari, 6/379).

3) Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates:

"On the night of Isra, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) passed by the grave of Sayyiduna Musa (Allah bless him), and found him praying in his grave" (Recorded by Imam Muslim in his Sahih, and others).

4) Anas ibn Malik narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wsallam) said:

"The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi in his 'Hayat al-Anbiya' and Abu Ya'la in his Musnad).

The above Hadith has been authenticated by many Hadith scholars, such as: Ibn Hajar, al-Haythami, Ali al-Qari, al-Munawi, al-Shawkani and others.

5) Aws ibn Aws narrates the Messenger of Allah as saying:

"Send salutations in abundance on me on Friday, as your sending salutations are presented to me. The Companions inquired: "How is it possible that you receive our salutations when your body will have been decayed? The Messenger of Allah said: "Verily Allah has made forbidden on the earth that it eats the body of the Prophets" (Recorded by Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Darami and others, and authenticated by many, such as Ibn al-Qayyim).

6) Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) Narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Peace and blessing be upon him) said:

"None of you greets me except that Allah returns my soul on me until I return his greeting" (Musnad Ahmad, 2/527 and Abu Dawud, 1/279).

7) Anas ibn Malik narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

"The Prophets are not kept in their graves for more then forty nights, but they remain worshiping Allah until the trumpet will be blown" (Sunan al-Bayhaqi).

Due to the fact that there are many narrations regarding this (of which we have only reproduced a few, as an example), Imam Suyuti is of the view that these narrations have reached the level of certainty (tawatur).

8) The great Hadith Imam, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani states:

"Death will never come to the Blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) in his grave, but he will remain alive, due to the fact that the Prophets remain alive in their graves" (Fath al-Bari, 17/22).

9) Imam al-Subki states:

"It is from our beliefs that the Prophets are alive in their graves". (Tabqat al-Shafi'iyya al-Kubra, 6/266).

10) The great Hanafi jurist, Ibn Abidin says:

"The Prophets are alive in their graves, as proven from the Hadith" (Rasa'il of Ibn Abidin, 2/203).

11) Imam al-Shawkani (whom the Salafis normally refer to) states:

"The Prophet (Peace and blessing be upon him) is alive in his grave, as has been established in the Hadith "The Prophets are alive in their graves". (See: Nayl al-Awtar, 5/101).

12) Also, one of the major incidents that prove this, is the incident of Me'raj (Ascension of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) to the heavens), where he met and conversed with many Prophets. He also led them in
prayer in Masjid al-Aqsa.

The above evidences from the Qur'an, Hadith and the sayings of the predecessors are sufficient to prove the fact that the Prophets remain alive in their graves after they pass away from this world. There are many other evidences which we have not mentioned here, due to the fear of prolonging
our discussion.

This is the reason why this Aqidah has been held by the mainstream Sunni scholars throughout the eras. It is only recently that some people have objected to this view.

For more details on this subject, one may refer to Imam Suyuti's 'al-Inba' and Imam al-Bayhaqi's 'Hayat al-Anbiya'.

May Allah guide us all to the straight path (Ameen).

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam, UK


:ws:

Ansari
13-05-2006, 12:09 PM
I think the ulama have different ways to put their stance regarding hayatul nabi forward. See here: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8474

navman35
13-05-2006, 03:36 PM
Brother navman.. where is he gona be talking
i dnt really know but when he will cum il find out his program and let u know

navman35
13-05-2006, 04:30 PM
brother abu hajirah you have shown the quotes from mufti ibne adam saying that the hayat of the prophet (s.a.w) is physical and worldly (dunyawiyyah).im sorry to say i dnt know wer this mufti of yours got this aqeedah from because the deobandi ulama have said that the prophets r alive in the the graves which is barzakhi and not dunyawi.the dunyavi is only lafzee ikhtalaf.
it was only hazrat moulana qasim nanutawi who had a totally different aqeedah from the ulama e deoband on hayat ul ambia,but the ulama said that this is his own tafarad
it would be great if u can get me proof from a mutabar deobandi alim who say that it is dunyawi hayat.please dnt get a quote from a local mulla,molvi or a imaam

Sunni Student
13-05-2006, 05:37 PM
Here is a debate between Abdul Thawab Siddiqi and Allamah Yunis Numani about Ilm al Ghaib.

Part 1: http://www.y a nabi/mediadb/player.cfm?file_id=4402
Part 2: http://www.y a nabi/mediadb/player.cfm?file_id=4403

please copy paste the link and edit so it becomes yanabi not y a nabi

Aamir
13-05-2006, 09:38 PM
Brothers plz finf below an indepth refuaution of the mamati viewpoint, part 2 also conatins a Q AND A.. it is in urdu..

PART 1 (http://www.thedefendersoftruth.com/Graphics/Audio/awaz/HazratMoulanaMohammadTunsvidbh/Tounsvi-04-02-2006_12-41-45.rm)

PART 2 (http://www.thedefendersoftruth.com/Graphics/Audio/awaz/HazratMoulanaMohammadTunsvidbh/Tounsvi-04-02-2006_13-52-24.rm)

navman35
14-05-2006, 11:41 AM
Here is a debate between Abdul Thawab Siddiqi and Allamah Yunis Numani about Ilm al Ghaib.

Part 1: http://www.y a nabi/mediadb/player.cfm?file_id=4402
Part 2: http://www.y a nabi/mediadb/player.cfm?file_id=4403

please copy paste the link and edit so it becomes yanabi not y a nabi
brother u must be mistaken or u must have not seen the debate.the munazirs wer abdul thawab sidiqi ichrawi with moulana saadiq quhatti.allamah younas nomani was the sadar.i seen the debate on vcr a month after it happened and il be honest i was well impressed by saadiq quhatti and and younas nomani but was disappointed with abdul thawab siddiqi because he didn't want to debate and wanted to change the munazir,im sorry in usool e munazir u are not allowed to ask for a different munazir during the debate.he also said his points then decide and tryed to stop the debate which i think its very unfair.for this reason i was disappointed with him even though the deobandis celebrated the success of the debate. but iv been very impressed with many other barelvi munazir such as irfan mashadi and a few others .but this is not the topic

navman35
14-05-2006, 12:28 PM
Brothers plz finf below an indepth refuaution of the mamati viewpoint, part 2 also conatins a Q AND A.. it is in urdu..

PART 1 (http://www.thedefendersoftruth.com/Graphics/Audio/awaz/HazratMoulanaMohammadTunsvidbh/Tounsvi-04-02-2006_12-41-45.rm)

PART 2 (http://www.thedefendersoftruth.com/Graphics/Audio/awaz/HazratMoulanaMohammadTunsvidbh/Tounsvi-04-02-2006_13-52-24.rm)
moulana younas nomani has already answered moulana tuonswi's bayan and also demanded for a challenge.

Aamir
14-05-2006, 01:30 PM
Brother Navman do u have this 'refutation' so that we can all listen to it.

Alos th eabove mentiond munazara.. what was the outcome of it.. according to the brelwi viewposint they won but th elink doesnt show it till the end.

navman35
14-05-2006, 05:04 PM
Brother Navman do u have this 'refutation' so that we can all listen to it.

Alos th eabove mentiond munazara.. what was the outcome of it.. according to the brelwi viewposint they won but th elink doesnt show it till the end.

i dnt have the refutation but il see if i can get hold of it.by the way moulana tounswi said the aqeedah was introduced or started from hazrat enayatullah shah bukhari (r.a) which is totally wrong cuz this ikhtilaf has been discussed by many ulamah in the past and also we have to understand that the ijmah is apon hayatul ul ambia which everyone agrees.another misunderstanding is that they accuse them of saying that the dnt believe about the rooh and jisam's taluk which is also wrong.
the view point regarding the munazrah on ilme ghaib with barelvis is that the deobandis say they won ,and they wer the first to spread the munazrah,but the munazrah was stoped due to ichrawi backing out so u cant really say if anyside won and it wasn't a fasalakun (decision made by a neutral sadar)manazrah.

Sunni Student
15-05-2006, 10:51 PM
i dnt have the refutation but il see if i can get hold of it.by the way moulana tounswi said the aqeedah was introduced or started from hazrat enayatullah shah bukhari (r.a) which is totally wrong cuz this ikhtilaf has been discussed by many ulamah in the past and also we have to understand that the ijmah is apon hayatul ul ambia which everyone agrees.another misunderstanding is that they accuse them of saying that the dnt believe about the rooh and jisam's taluk which is also wrong.
the view point regarding the munazrah on ilme ghaib with barelvis is that the deobandis say they won ,and they wer the first to spread the munazrah,but the munazrah was stoped due to ichrawi backing out so u cant really say if anyside won and it wasn't a fasalakun (decision made by a neutral sadar)manazrah.

Brother what does the term Alim-ul-Ghaib mean?, and with regards to a nuetral Sadar then this was offered but not accepted by the Deobandis!

I think such Debates are Pointless and it comes down to lack of understanding about each Other.

If by Alim-ul-Ghaib it means that the Prophet Independantly has the knowledge of the unseen or that the Prophet has complete knowledge the of the unseen then i know for a fact that no brailvi claims this.

So In reality even Deobandis and Bralvis accept that The Prophet Muhammad had Knowledge of the Unseen, the only difference is to what extent they have this knowledge!

navman35
16-05-2006, 05:17 PM
Brother what does the term Alim-ul-Ghaib mean?, and with regards to a nuetral Sadar then this was offered but not accepted by the Deobandis!

I think such Debates are Pointless and it comes down to lack of understanding about each Other.

If by Alim-ul-Ghaib it means that the Prophet Independantly has the knowledge of the unseen or that the Prophet has complete knowledge the of the unseen then i know for a fact that no brailvi claims this.

So In reality even Deobandis and Bralvis accept that The Prophet Muhammad had Knowledge of the Unseen, the only difference is to what extent they have this knowledge!

brother if u want to talk on on ilme ghaib then i suggest that u open another thread cuz this is more upon masla e hayat ul ambia.

its your interpretation of the sadar issue which is baseless cuz they both had ther sadars present which was agreed upon because u can offer a neutral person but the other person might not find him to be neutral.

if u think the debates are pointless then y mention it

brother u might not be aware of this that ther r barelvi alim who have claimed that the prophet s.a.w had complete knowledge the of the unseen when the final verse was revealed.u can listen the diallage on hazir nazir and ilme ghaib with alamah younas nomani and moulana saeed ahmed asad faslabadi.which i find very interesting because they discuss each others aqeedah in dept in a well behaved manner.

the deobandis dnt claim that the prophet s.a.w had ilme ghaib.i do understand wer u coming from.the ikhtilaf on ghaib maslah is zaati ,ataee,jamee maa kaan and jamee maa yakoon.which im aware of but the the deobandis say that the ataee is khabre ghaib not ilme ghaib

Sunni Student
16-05-2006, 10:51 PM
brother if u want to talk on on ilme ghaib then i suggest that u open another thread cuz this is more upon masla e hayat ul ambia.

its your interpretation of the sadar issue which is baseless cuz they both had ther sadars present which was agreed upon because u can offer a neutral person but the other person might not find him to be neutral.

if u think the debates are pointless then y mention it

brother u might not be aware of this that ther r barelvi alim who have claimed that the prophet s.a.w had complete knowledge the of the unseen when the final verse was revealed.u can listen the diallage on hazir nazir and ilme ghaib with alamah younas nomani and moulana saeed ahmed asad faslabadi.which i find very interesting because they discuss each others aqeedah in dept in a well behaved manner.

the deobandis dnt claim that the prophet s.a.w had ilme ghaib.i do understand wer u coming from.the ikhtilaf on ghaib maslah is zaati ,ataee,jamee maa kaan and jamee maa yakoon.which im aware of but the the deobandis say that the ataee is khabre ghaib not ilme ghaib

Brother Allamah Saeed nor any Brailvi claims that he Had complete Knowledge of the Unseen, yes they do claim that he has all the Knowledge of the Unseen in relation to the Creation [Makhlooq].

I dont want to get into a debate on this issue, lets leave that to the Scholars, I just mentioned the Debate as it was related to Maulana Yunis Naumani who was being discussed as out of the fold of the Deobandi School!

and where can i listen to the Dilogue between Allamah Saeed Asad and Yunis Noumani!

loveProphet
17-05-2006, 09:50 AM
Brother Allamah Saeed nor any Brailvi claims that he Had complete Knowledge of the Unseen, yes they do claim that he has all the Knowledge of the Unseen in relation to the Creation [Makhlooq].

I dont want to get into a debate on this issue, lets leave that to the Scholars, I just mentioned the Debate as it was related to Maulana Yunis Naumani who was being discussed as out of the fold of the Deobandi School!

and where can i listen to the Dilogue between Allamah Saeed Asad and Yunis Noumani!
I agree with my dear brother.
No Berelvi claims that Holy Prophet(SAW) had full knowledge of Ilm Ghaib.
Why do you want to start a debate?? Theres no point.

navman35
17-05-2006, 09:09 PM
Brother Allamah Saeed nor any Brailvi claims that he Had complete Knowledge of the Unseen, yes they do claim that he has all the Knowledge of the Unseen in relation to the Creation [Makhlooq].

I dont want to get into a debate on this issue, lets leave that to the Scholars, I just mentioned the Debate as it was related to Maulana Yunis Naumani who was being discussed as out of the fold of the Deobandi School!

and where can i listen to the Dilogue between Allamah Saeed Asad and Yunis Noumani!

what do u mean complete knowledge and all knowledge of the unseen? i think u really need to listen to that dialoge
well if u listen to the dealoge (not a debate) with molvi saeed asad and alamah younas nomani then u will realise how much contradiction moulana saeed assad dose thats y its very hard to get the dialoge from the barelvis and if u do most of it will be cut.u can get it in 3parts in audio from pak recording centre,karachi.it took place in moulana saeed assad's madrassa.
if u do get hold of it then please listen to it carefully not like before that u didn't know who was the sadar and the munazir lol.no affence.

it doesn't make a different if moulana nomani is out of the fold of the deobandi jamat,because deoband is not a jamaat or a tahreek.its only a madrassa,and the group which he is with is jamaat e ishaat ut tawheed wa sunnah pakistan

salman
17-05-2006, 09:14 PM
Salamu 'Alaykum

My dear brothers and sisters;

The specifics of "how much" of the Unseen the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) knows is irrelevant.

What is qat`i is that the knowledge of the Prophet is beyond that of all creation, in every significant way, and unimaginably so.

Wasalam