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mujahideenryder

17-08-2004, 11:14 PM

asalamualykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

anyone heard of shaykh Muhammad al-Shareef, the al-Maghrib institute teacher, and the founder of Eman rush? what do you think of him?

walykumsalam wr wb

Saleel

17-08-2004, 11:17 PM

:salam:

I like some of his article on fadhail... he writes them well.

But for fiqhi purposes, I wouldn't follow him. He did hifz at a traditonal Hanafi madrassah in Canada, so he still has respect for the ulema, but then he went off to Madinah University to further his studies, hence Salafi tendencies.

:salam:

GenN

18-08-2004, 08:21 AM

Assalmu alykum,

Don't know much about Muhammed Al Shariff, but just incase any one gets confused, theres 2 of them.

One is known as Muhammed Al sharif - the one with the salafi tendancies

and one is Muhammed Sharif - Orthodox of the maliki madhab and is ameer of the Uthman dan Fodio Society. i have heard he has black nationalist tendancies but not sure how true this is.

was salaam.

faqir

18-08-2004, 12:59 PM

:salam:

Shaykh Muhammad Shareef [ www.sankore.org] is a well respected Maliki scholar - he is actually due back in the U.K. very shortly.

For the dates of his talks See:

http://www.ash-shifa.org.uk/moreinfo.htm

Note: this is not the Salafi inclined Sh. Muhammad al-shareef

IlyasLahoz

18-08-2004, 02:39 PM

:salam:
i might have some insight on this as i've taken an almaghrib course with muhammad al-shareef, been to some of his lectures and i frequent the almaghirb forums. so here's the rundown:
there is more than just a salafi tendency. the courses they offer are from the aou curriculum. all the shaykhs they cite are salafi's (ibn uthaymeen being the main one cited in the tafseer class i took). the latest course they are offering is being taught by another madinah graduate and is along the lines of bilal phillips's "the evolution of fiqh"- in fact the course carries that same name.
as for the forum, all discussions are from a la-madhhabi position (ie "what is the daleel", "opinion X has the strongest evidence" "shaykh al-albani says...." etc). only salafi fatwa's and articles are allowed to be copy pasted (islam-qa being cited as the most reliable source) and links to sunnipath are deleted as it is a "sufi website", in other words almaghrib and its director are 100% salafi.
that said, it is not a vociferous salafism. there is no mention of the term itself, no diatribes against scholars or madhhabs as such, rather the salafi position is presented as "just islam". in fact, part of muhammad al-shareef's program, it seems to me, is to enter the islamic-learning "marketplace" as uncontroversially as possible so as to alienate as few people as people as possible. sort of a dawah as broad-marketing strategy.
quite interesting.
wasalam
-alex

Mustafa

18-08-2004, 03:18 PM

wa alaikum as salaam

That is very interesting. From the articles he's written, he does seem to be a moderate salafi.

I've heard that students on his course get course credit from Al Azhar - is this true? And what does this mean in this day and age (I don't know much about modern day Al Azhar; it was an Ashari institute in the past and I didn't think salafis would want to affiliate with that)?

Wa salam
Your brother in Islam

ilm_seeker

18-08-2004, 04:16 PM

He is a Salafi without question. he conforms to the Salafi Aqidah and its methodology of fiqh and refers to Ibn Uthaymeen as my Shaykh or our Shaykh.

However he is a salafi without the title. he does not proclaim to be Salafi.

They have the attittde of we are not salafi, Shafi etc etc, we just follow the Quran and Sunnah.

To make it appear as if they are the only Muslims who follow the Quran and Sunnah.

He is a Salafi without the Name.

New Front same propaganda.

Maa salaama,

aMuslimForLife
As sallamu alaikum

Are you the same 'aMuslimForLife' from ClearGuidance forums?

Wa alaikum as sallam

Mustafa

18-08-2004, 04:47 PM

What is a moderate Salafi?

In relation to other salafis, it would be someone who doesn't use all his energy and time to attack other Muslims and promote hatred of other Muslims.

Wa salam
Your brother in Islam

aMuslimForLife

18-08-2004, 05:03 PM

As sallamu alaikum

Are you the same 'aMuslimForLife' from ClearGuidance forums?

Wa alaikum as sallam

NO.

faqir

18-08-2004, 05:55 PM

Asalamu alaykum aMuslim4life - nice to see you posting here Akhi. Just wondering, if you are here then who is left to clear up the mess there? (ya'ni - Islamicaweb.com/forums)

:D

mujahideenryder

18-08-2004, 11:07 PM

mujahideenryder

18-08-2004, 11:08 PM

Asalamu alaykum aMuslim4life - nice to see you posting here Akhi. Just wondering, if you are here then who is left to clear up the mess there? (ya'ni - Islamicaweb.com/forums)

:D

hahaha im on islamica too, but aMuslimForLife rips it apart, then thers bro. sunni, also and jinzaman too

fnaeem

19-08-2004, 05:30 AM

Hypermodestmuslima

29-01-2005, 09:24 PM

I heard Muhammad al shareef once, and was impressed by his lectures.
Wanted to attend more, but something always came up until my heart set upon the path that I will not attend a salafi lecture no matter what. you dont shower with water if it smells minutely, no matter how minutely.

what convinced me of his salafism, was when one brother who organizes trips from austin to Muhammad Al Shareefs lectures in houston. said that one of the things MAS or the other guy ( yasir birjas) for the evolution of fiqh class said.

"which imams fatwa do you accept, and why". these are all uni educated ppl being asked this at the end of his lecture. The guy who mentioned it to me, was mentioning it casually. Pick and choose a fatwa.

Faisal

I actually have two of his CDs...and listened to one online...it had come in my inbox...anyway

the two cds i possess are with respect to when the wolves become the sheppards (about shaitan's dawah techniques and how he enters the minds of ppl) and another on ilm being the third parent...

i haven't heard the latter cd as yet...but the first cd is plainly not on the fiqh issue at all...(with the exception of mentioning that ppl should pray salaah etc.)

With that in mind, is there any rule to listening to him. As I've refrained from listening to such speakers as Yusuf Estes because of controversial claims made by them...etc.

Umm..basically is there anything wrong with listening to his lectures so long as you steer clear away from the fiqh issues?

eat-halal guy

30-01-2005, 03:58 AM

taalibah

30-01-2005, 11:46 AM

subhanAllah, there is no justice here, you will not listen to someone because he does not follow one particular madhhab and calls shaykh ibn uthaymeen rahimahullah our shaykh?? This is madness wAllah. Where is the husn adh-dhann? Anyone that hasn't listened to him, my naseehah is please do, you will be, inshaAllah, very pleasantly surprised. We take the good wherever it comes from, not just from people who call themselves a certain group. This is not our deen, our deen is moderation and giving each peson their due right. I can't believe people are asking whether they should listen to his lectures, why don't you see and judge for yourself?
We see that the kibaar al ulema would always listen to those that opposed them, like I think it was shaykh Yahyaa rahimahullah who used to read shaykh Gangohi's letters to him when he became old, so a lot of the time he would get letters from the mubtadi'oon using very foul language and swearing at him, so after a while shaykh yahya decided he would stop reading those letters, so shaykh Gangohi rahimahullah noticed this and upon finding ot that he wasn't reading the letters to him, he said maybe in between everything they say, there is some truth that we can take and improve from. SubhaanAllah! This is the true moderation that is our deen. And here we aren't even talking about anything nearly as extreme but we have become so muta'assab and blinded that we refuse to recognise the truth wherever we see it. may Allah keep us firm on the right path.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ لِلّهِ شُهَدَاء بِالْقِسْطِ وَلاَ يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَى أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ اعْدِلُواْ هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ
O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well* Acquainted with what you do.

veiledwithhonour

30-01-2005, 03:28 PM

Saleel

30-01-2005, 03:59 PM

:salam:

Assalamu alaikum

I agree with the last member, I've heard a few of his lectures and the one that sticks to my mind was about our prophet (Saw), it was beautiful. I didn't know he was a salafi, to tell the truth I didn't care had he been a grave worshipper then it would have been more of a concern. I mean he is Muslim right, so why does it matter if he's not a hanafi etc..? As long as we don't hear anything contradictory to islamic teachings does it matter?

If you really want to know what his beliefs are why don't you contact him via the maghrib forum, rather than making assumptions. I would hate it if people made assumptions about me, approach him directly if it's important.

Does this mean we can't attend lectures if they're done by a maliki teacher for example? If I'm exposing myself to some sort of danger then seriously explain it to me i'd be grateful.

Fi Aman'Allah
Briefly...

Within Ahle Sunnah wal-Jamah, we have the four main schools of thought - Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Maliki. In the few generations after RasulAllah saw, there were many schools of thought, including the hyper-literalist Zahiri Madhhab. However, within Sunni islam, the above four are the only ones left today.

Orthodox traditional Muslims make Talqleed to one of the four schools, and this has been the practice of many Ulema since the formation of these schools. Essentially, Muslims can be split into Mujtahids and Muqalids. Mujtahids do not necessarily have to take from the Madhhab, but rather can make Ijtihaad and deduce the rulings. The rest - the Muqalids - must do Taqleed to one of the four schools. It is important to note that we do not necessarily make Taqleed of Imam Abu Hanifa, or Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, etc. but rather to the Madhhab; in the case of the Hanafi Madhhab, we have the knowledge of over 1 million Ulema who have passed through the school.

With respect to the four schools, the common basis is the same, and all ascribe to Ahle Sunnah. The differences come in certain rulings in which there is permissible Ikhtilaaf. The sayings of all four Imams was, "We believe our rulings to be correct, with the possibility of being incorrect, and the other rulings to be incorrect, with the possibility of being correct." In this way, respect was maintained for anyone who had a differing opinion. In fact, Imam Abu Yusuf, who was a great Mujtahid and a student of Imam Abu Hanifa, often differed from the rulings offered by Imam Abu Hanifa.

The Imams laid down an Usul, and the Mujtahids of later years were able to implement this Usul to derive rulings. It is this school, within 1400 years of refinement, that we follow today.

With respect to Fiqhi rulings, orthodox Muslims refer to the Ulema of our own Madhhab. Salafis, essentially, differ from orthodox belief in not making Taqleed to one Madhhab, but rather insisting that the "Quran and Sunnah" should be every Muslim's only sources, whether they are capable or not of making Ijtihaad. For example, orthodox belief is to refer to the Quran and Sunnah as the two original sources, but Qiyaas (analogy) and Ijma (concensus) are ways of implementing this, whereas the Salaffiyah thought largely ignores the last two.

Many Salafis refer to Salafi Ulema for the "strongest opinion" in a particular matter. Salafis claim that these Ulema are able to sift through the rulings of all four Madhhaaib, and issue a fatwa based on collective evidence. Essentially, 1 million scholars in the Hanafi Madhhab, 400,000 in the Hanabi Madhhab, etc. are replaced by one Muqalid today.

The Salafis - so-called immitators of the pious predecessors - in this way actually distance themselves from the Sunnah, by often rejecting Mutawattir, Saheeh and Hassan Ahadith because another Hadith, on its surface, seems more "correct". This is a dangerous path, which opens the gates to talfiq, and is absolutely un-orthodox and has never been the way of the Ulema over the past 1300-1500 years.

Some also claim that the Aqeedah of Salafis differs from Ahle Sunnah wal-Jamah. Allahu Alam.

None generally make takfir of the Salafis. Rather, they are not an orthodox belief. With respect to sitting in the Majlis of the Salafis and learning from learned Salafis, this is generally not recommended by the Ulema of the orthodox beliefs since it can lead to confusion. They are not generally considered Mustanad Ulema-e-Deen, gaining knowledge from people who are not on orthodox belief can cause confusion. Sometimes the answer may be correct from a Hanafi perspective, but the person who is listening isn't always able to distinguish which answer is correct, and which isn't. If a Shafi'i ruling is given by a Salafi scholar (since he considers it to be the strongest opinion), this can mislead someone who follows the Hanafi Madhhab, and infact even make them sinful. A classical case is that of reciting al-Fatiha/Quran behind an Imam in Jamat.

This is not a ruling that we cannot attend the gatherings of Ulema from other schools, or even those of Salafi learned Muslims. However, one should realise that any Fiqhi rulings given may well be contrary to the ruling in their own Madhhab. Such picking and mixing would be incorrect.

With so many orthodox traditional Ulema in our Madaris and Masaajid, Insha'allah we should try our best to learn from them, rather than people who may not necessarily represent Islam in its purest form.

Allahu Alam.

Apologies if the above is a repeat of what you already know.

:salam:

faqir

30-01-2005, 04:02 PM

Assalamu alaikum

I agree with the last member, I've heard a few of his lectures and the one that sticks to my mind was about our prophet (Saw), it was beautiful. I didn't know he was a salafi, to tell the truth I didn't care had he been a grave worshipper then it would have been more of a concern. I mean he is Muslim right, so why does it matter if he's not a hanafi etc..? As long as we don't hear anything contradictory to islamic teachings does it matter?

If you really want to know what his beliefs are why don't you contact him via the maghrib forum, rather than making assumptions. I would hate it if people made assumptions about me, approach him directly if it's important.

Does this mean we can't attend lectures if they're done by a maliki teacher for example? If I'm exposing myself to some sort of danger then seriously explain it to me i'd be grateful.

Fi Aman'Allah

Asalamu alaykum,

I don't know anything about Muhammad al-Shareef so rather than referring to this specific individual I would just like to say generally speaking that the Ulema explain that those on the Salafi Creed are from Ahl al-Bid'ah.

To compare a sect on a deviant creed to the Maliki Madhab of fiqh is ludicrous.

And I have no idea who you are referring to as "grave worshipers" - I sincerely hope it is not Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah?

Anyhow, I attend and listen to talks by Salafis but I just wanted to mention the above.

And as a word of general precaution [which may or may not apply to this particular case] consider what Ibn al-Hajj says in his book, al-Madkhal,

“Umar ibn al-‘Aziz said,

‘Never give one whose heart is deviant access to your two ears, for surely you never know what may find fixity in you.’

http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000165.aspx

Wasalam.

veiledwithhonour

30-01-2005, 04:11 PM

Assalamu Alaikum,

Jazak'Allah for that answer it was very informative.

Another question, even amongst Hanafi ulema we have differences. So if I told a sister I'm going to such and such lecture by scholar X, she might say oh don't go to his lecture he's a Hanafi yeah but bidda follower. What I'm saying is does this nit picking ever end? I've yet to meet a muslim who doesn't say what are you? I mean the cheek of it I'm a muslim why must you know my madhab in order to discern if I'm a legitimate muslim! This kind of attitude just appears like arrogance to me. It's like saying I'm holier than you so let me judge if you're a true muslim?

faqir

30-01-2005, 04:16 PM

As far as I am concerned, the most significant difference is Creed. [please read what I wrote above]

veiledwithhonour

30-01-2005, 04:21 PM

Assalamu alaikum,

I've read it brother, jazak'Allah.

Hypermodestmuslima

30-01-2005, 06:03 PM

I haven't read him or listened to him much....but I do know him personally. He did hifz at my old madrasa....know him since I was a lil kid.

If you ask anyone for the best student in our madrasa history, he'd be mentioned for sure...very nice bro, .

He also sent some of his Quran students to the madrasa to do hifz.

Very adabful and respectful....even when he was a student. I've got some exclusive stories about him, but I'm not going to post here. In any case, they're good "aw " stories.
So? Can I listen to his CDs?

With respect to sitting in the Majlis of the Salafis and learning from learned Salafis, this is generally not recommended by the Ulema of the orthodox beliefs since it can lead to confusion. They are not generally considered Mustanad Ulema-e-Deen, gaining knowledge from people who are not on orthodox belief can cause confusion.

Ok I've got two of his CDs...so should I get rid of them if its not recommended...because actually they do not relate to fiqhi rulings or aqeedah...rather they relate to protecting one's self from shaitan...the other one has him mentioning that we should seek knowledge...

????? :S

I just need a yes or no sort of answer with umm...a brief explanation my unlearnt mind may understand...

jazakallah

fnaeem

30-01-2005, 06:18 PM

:salam:

I used to be of the same opinion that take whatever is nice, and leave whatever is bad. The problem is that I wonder if I get taught something, and dont know or realize if it is not from the traditional opinion or not.

A brother, who is not into salafism, and knows that I am not into it either. He goes to MAS's Evolution of Fiqh class taught by Yasir Birjas ( another very nice brother, met him personally) and comes back and says of Allah is up, we dont know how and where is up, but Allah is up.

Then another friend of mine who discovered the true beauty of traditional islam around the same time as I did. He and I had attended the texas dawah conference ( salafi convention). Later on he listens to a lecture by Waleed Basayoni ( organizer of Texas Dawah conference), and my friend told me how he had to shut the lecture of WB because he kept on railing about sufis and ash'ari and just criticinzing them. Is this from Adab or tolerance of others. A salafi shaikh from the local salafi masjid used to hold a halaqa in the house of a brother that I knew personally. He goes on to doubt the existence of Rabia-Al -Basri. Says we are not sure whether this woman existed or not. Even orientalists recognize her being alive. So you deny history just because you dont like the persons point of view. I have already mentioned the point about brothers who were told that they will take fatwa from the imam they love the most or are impressed by the msot.

Contrast this to what I heard from Sh Nuh, who goes on to say that despite our major differences with Shia, they are not kafir but ahlul bidah. He I believe also said that it is okay to pray behind Wahhabiya/Salafiya etc.
Who is being more tolerant.

I as a person who has had no religious education( beyond the ability to read the quran) , feel myself ill equipped to distinguish between what I am being taught is right or wrong. If I had the ability to make that distinction I would surely take what is good and leave what is wrong.

:jazak:
Faisal

Hypermodestmuslima

30-01-2005, 06:30 PM

i shouldn't listen to him anymore????

Saleel

30-01-2005, 06:32 PM

:salam:

i shouldn't listen to him anymore????
If you're able to ascertain the good from the bad, then listen to them carefully. If not (and be realistic/honest here), best to leave them alone.

Allahu Alam.

:salam:

eat-halal guy

30-01-2005, 06:50 PM

I'd say if someone is unsure of another's aqeedah or position on fiqhi issues, then it's better to respectfully stay away (that's not to say hate or have contempt for) from his/her books and talks, unless it's something to do with history or improving one's self, or other 'neutral' issues that are of common interest to to the various schools of thought.

Allah knows best.

Mujib

30-01-2005, 09:31 PM

As-Salamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah

Where does the “al-Maghrib” come from?

It seems this group has recognized the popularity of traditional Islam amongst the youth here in the West, and they are using the “trend” to spread their own ideas.

There may be many wonderful people amongst the teachers, but the Institute itself seems like it is going to do much damage. They are setting up shop here, and have recruited brothers from HT to spread the call to the youth at the local masjids and campuses. Some of the young brothers are comparing it to Zaytuna. Zaytuna it is not!

Hypermodestmuslima

31-01-2005, 12:18 AM

eat-halal guy

31-01-2005, 12:20 AM

I hate to be annoying but a talk on Shaitan's Dawah techniques and how to save yourself from Shaitan...would that classify as neautral?

I think so. Allahu Alam.

Hypermodestmuslima

31-01-2005, 01:10 AM

eat-halal guy

31-01-2005, 01:37 AM

Ok...Jazakallah I guess...

(Heh...i know you all feel like kicking me out of this forum right about now for being such a ditz but umm...)

How about his lecture on Ilm as a third parent...its about seeking knowledge...

Is that neutral too?

No, it's ok, I don't feel like kicking you out. I haven't heard it...but I guess if it's just about the virtues of seeking knowledge, etc., then it should be fine. Maybe someone who ahs heard it can comment on it.

abdushakur

31-01-2005, 02:08 PM

ok i hope some1 can help me out here....

i went to one talk of muhammad sharif a few years back and i also bought one of his tapes later on.
he comes across as an afrikan american in his way of speaking and i inderstand he is on tariqah and he translates Shaykh Uthman Dan Fudeye's works too (ra).

then the other day, knowing that he's cool (IMHO) i bought one of his CD's titled "regret".

when i played it i was shocked at how his style of speaking has changed...he sounds like a caucasian or something else on that CD but defo not african-american. his voice is thinner and more strained etc.

have i accidently stumbled across the other guy? ie. muhamad AL-shareef?

in any case, the bayan "regret" was really good IMHO, and it was an excellent reminder altho a bit short.

btw, is this thread about the maliki, tariqah Shareef or the so-called 'salafi' Shareef?

Hypermodestmuslima

31-01-2005, 11:19 PM

abdushakur

01-02-2005, 08:30 AM

^^^

yes i understand u were talking about the 'salafi' one

i was just wondering which 'shareef' the thread-starter was thinking of...

in any case, can anyone describe the differences in the shareef's voices?
it would help me recognise which one i have on CD...

IlyasLahoz

01-02-2005, 04:58 PM

you have a cd by the Egyptian/Canadian Muhammad al Shareef

abuhidaya

01-02-2005, 09:11 PM

I like Muhammad al shareef, it represents my style in islamic understanding. He taught me a lot through his web site, and I still benefit from him. He is really cool, and he doesnt call himself salafi or any label except muslim, which is even cooler. He follows ahlus sunnah wal jammah. Also shaykh Yasir Birjas is a really cool instructor.

Also him and his fellow instructors are not limited to any particular scholar, they take and benefit from different ones.

They also respect the different opinions even in issues like taqlid, tazkiyah etc... and respect the different scholars.

Actually sh muhammad does not let us even mention the name of another person in front of him, let alone a scholar, not even those he does not agree with.

So let us all give him the same respect , not to mention anything about him.

His wife is also very learned and well read.

eat-halal guy

01-02-2005, 10:17 PM

Yeah, :mash:. I've got nothing but respect for the man...a truly sharif person. May Allah preserve him. Ameen.

mujahideenryder

15-04-2005, 03:48 PM

asalamualykum

inshaAllah i plan on taking a class at al maghrib this summer

any body else from here went to any of the classes?

Mossy

15-04-2005, 05:10 PM

I would recommend against it.

This article was by the teacher of their aqeedah class:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4919

I would be wary of going to learn from anyone who declares:

The beliefs and deviations of the Ash'arees are all based upon their anthropomorphic understanding of the Attributes of Allaah.

...

The Ash'arees are an example of how deviation occurs when the proper Islaamic methodology is not followed; they wished to refute the beliefs of the Mu'tazilah and the Jahmiyyah, and affirm the Attributes of Allaah, but since they were so influenced by the principles of Greek logic and rationalism, they ended up agreeing with the beliefs of the same groups that they sought to refute, and stated that the Qur`aan is created.

This is also the Shaykhs current position.

tazkiyyah

15-04-2005, 06:42 PM

Salams

I also listen to him..he has nice adab.recites arabic beautifully.

But he is not from ahlus sunnah.I shouldnt listen to him as i'm not an aalim..who would leave the pure streams of honey layed by shaykh muhammad yaqubi/imam zaid/shaykh dahabi/shaykh samir an nass/shaykh mufti taqi uthmani/hakeem akhtar etc etc

for other ppl who have problems in their understanding of fiqh and aqeeda and tasawuf.
Just because they sound nice and speak well?

shariff

20-05-2005, 04:09 AM

Asalamualaikum,

I asked the respected ulema of sunnipath about al-Maghrib institute and its legitimacy as far as learning from them goes but haven't gotten a reply yet. This thread cleared up alot alhamdulillah. I agree with what someone said below regarding al-Maghrib as simply a response to the gaining popularity of traditional Islam with such esteemed insitutes as Zaytuna and Sunnipath. Im from Chicago, and I would be lying if I said Im not scared at how young brothers and sisters here are so excited about going to al-Maghrib courses. One brother went to a weekend intensive with Yaser Birjas and came back referring to the Burdah Sharif as a work of bid'ah and shirk.

Im still waiting for a reply to my question to the sunnipath ulema...inshAllah, that will provide some clarity to the matter.

Shaykhs-Pir Sahib

23-05-2005, 12:15 AM

i am still left a little confused in this thread.

muhammad al-shareef appears to be the salafi scholar and muhammad shareef is the maliki one, right?

shariff

23-05-2005, 01:49 AM

you're right brother.

Hypermodestmuslima

23-05-2005, 04:21 AM

tazkiyyah

23-05-2005, 10:05 AM

Hmm..yes
My comments were a bit harsh.

I have not heard him say anything objectionable as such.Perhaps we should be a bit more open minded in this regard.
I have heard some of his talks and they have been nice..Alhamdulillah.

May Allah(swt) forgive me..

eat-halal guy

23-05-2005, 10:47 AM

Concerning, Shaykh Muhammad Al Shareef...
He lives up to his name...as a very sharif person...despite differences in opinion between the other scholars he still maintains respect for them alhamdulillah...and his lectures on general topics are quite beneficial

Definitely. I've known him personally since the time he was doing hifz at the madrasa I studied at (obviously, I was very young at the time). In fact, we ran into each other yesterday and chatted a bit at a convention in town. He visits madrasa every once in a while and has high regard for all his teachers and elders. We may have differences of opinion in fiqh and other matters, but let's benefit from the good and not make it a personal thing, because he's definitely a very sharif person, on a personal level (and I have stories to prove it, though I won't disclose them here).

shariff

23-05-2005, 02:54 PM

That's my question...learning morality and things related to the general good should be ok but isnt it problematic for people to go and learn issues such as fiqh and aqeedah from him?

jinnzaman

30-05-2005, 12:34 AM

Bismillah.

Assalamu alaikum

I live in maryland and this is where Al Maghrib first started. Muhammed al Shareef, prior to setting up at Al Maghrib was from Darus Salam located in College Park Maryland which is openly affiliated with the Salafi dawah but they are not the same type of Salafis as many of us may have come accross in our daily interactions.

They adopt, as closely as possible, the fiqh of ahl us sunnah waal jamah in that they follow a madhab (although I am not sure to what degree) but their aqeedah is the Salafi understanding of aqeedah (ie muhammed ibn abdul wahhab's interpretation of ibn taymeeyah's aqeedah) and refer to such scholars as uthaymeen and bin baaz.

Muhammed al Shareef no longer lives in maryland though. His visa got revoked or something.

masalama

jinnzaman

Salleyye

19-07-2005, 07:22 AM

Assalamu 'alaykum,

Muhammad Alshareef (formerly Elsherief) gave lectures in my city on two occasions. The first occassion (which was, I believe, before the Al-Maghrib Institute was established) he stated that he adheres to the Hanafi madhhab, but as the brother said, Allahu 'Alam how closely. There are definitely Salafi overtones in his talks, but I hope that it doesn't bar anyone from learning from him. Of course, it is best to be cautious in matters of fiqh and 'aqeedah.

Wa Allahu 'Alam

Abu Talaal

19-07-2005, 09:43 AM

Assalaamu alaikum

Here is what I think and I could very well be wrong:
Be very careful. He is a very nice and good brother.

However, he does not believe in the necessity of taqleed to one of the four madhaahib.

What Salafis say is you should (as a lay person) seek rulings from any scholar whom you trust (even if that scholar doesn't make taqleed to a madhab!!!). As a result, they often take from Saudi scholars.

Muhammad does take from mashayikh (such as those in Saudi) who reject taqleed to a madhab.

They accept madhabs but they consider taqleed to be "blind following" and reject it.

You have to be very careful because many Salafis are trying to show they are still orthodox by claiming to adhere to a madhab. The reality is that they have sets of views very different from the orthodox madhaahib, while maintaining certain fiqh issues with one of the four madhaahib (usually Hanabillaah).

As a result, they consider themselves the true orthodox Muslims.

Abu Talaal

19-07-2005, 09:46 AM

We believe that Allah has two generous hands: "No, both His hands are wide open; He spends how He pleases" [Quran 5:64]; "They do not
esteem Allah with the esteem that is due to Him. The whole Earth will be His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the Heavens will be rolled up in His right hand. Glory be to Him and exalted is He above that which they associate with Him" [Quran 39:67].

We believe that Allah possesses two real eyes, because He said: "And
build the ark under Our eyes as We reveal" [Quran 11:37]. The
Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "His veil is light. Had He removed
it, the sublimity of His countenance would have burnt all that His
sight reached" (Muslim and Ibn Majah). The Sunnites unanimously have
agreed that He has two eyes. This is supported by the Prophet's
saying about the Dajjal (the anti-Christ) that "he is one-eyed and
your Lord is not one-eyed" (Bukhari and Muslim).

Excerpted from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hanbalee/message/9

The above is from a so-called "Hanbalee" news group which is Salafi in actuality.

abdul kareem hanif

24-07-2005, 07:46 AM

asalaamo alaykum
Alhamdolilah! the brother is a good brother who strive to study the deen. But always remember he was trained as a wahabi (i dont like using word salafi it is dishonest and insulting to the salaf salaheen). I had some brothers in my city who train at almagurb and they think they are experts now. Al magrub taught a course on aqeedah and one of the tradtional brothers at the MSA told me he heard they taught the literalism of Allah swt attributes. It might be nice to listen about how wonderful prophet (SAW) is and about being good wife or husband by them. But would you give your sons body to a defected surgeon. Why would you let your own soul be to a defected surgean. The brother might be nice and sincere and know quran but he was taught by those who go against the rest of the ulama. We should strive to learn from the traditional ways as our fourfathers had preserve the deen. Not give into new innovated ways. I hope i didnt meant to speak bad about anyone but i just wanted to emphasise we should treat the knowldge of the deen sacredly dont just let anyone teach it. Should treat it more sacredly than anything else. By the way it is a wahabi missionary tatic that they say or appear they follow a madhab. They are anti madhab. I use to be a wahabi and a kaffr. So I know this. I spent my life looking for the truth and found islam and al sunnah wa jummah. They make insults and fabircated stories of the awilya and they have a course in open university on refuting imam alghazali. Alhzar does give credit to it. This is cause Alhzar has a sunni branch, a wahabi branch, and a shia branch. This wahabi stuff is not just fiq issue to it is also aqeedah issue too. They claim Allah swt astfirallah has literal body parts. And insult the school of ashari and mutaridi. So dont be sucked in to the idea that they are al sunnah wa jummah. But dont go to extremes on isulting them cause they still are people of the qibla. ANd one more thing wahabis are in this forum in disguise as sunnis to mislead you guys astray. They are very active in deception and missionary tatics. IF you want to learn fiq and religion there is many good info out there like sunnipath.com, masud.co.uk. ANd if you are indain/packi there is very good deobandi like abu yusuf riyad al haq and barewili ulama that have good info. DOnt let minor differences make you look down upon them not every barewli or deobandi have the same positions. Shattan wants to divide the sunnis.

Abu Talaal

24-07-2005, 08:05 AM

Fatima_M

10-08-2005, 02:08 PM

Walaikum As Salam wa rahmatullah

Don't send your kids to study Islam in Madeenah ya ikhwan wa ikhwat. From what I have seen, almost everybody who goes to study Islam in Saudi comes back rejecting the madhahib (even if they made taqleed of one of them before).

Saudi is spreading its anti-Islamic ideology everywhere - be it through their publications, their websites, their students, and so on.

I often wonder where some of these websites and groups get all their funding from. Their odour will lead you back to the un-Islamic teachings of the Saudi hierarchy.

Before al-Albani, the Wahhabiyya weren't so dangerous, especially considering sheikhs such as Sheikh Abul-Ghudda rahimahullah taught in Saudi Arabia for a time with full approval of Sheikh Ibraheem aal ash-Sheikh (Hambalee?).

But now they are spreading this "Salafiyyah" as much as they can. Na'audhobillah. Not to mention their scholars mostly seem to hail al-Albani as the Mujadid (reviver) of the 20th century.

Albani has caused so much fitnah!

ASalamaualikum wr wb,

I wanna go study in saudi insha'Allah....I just can't wait to get out of here.

Sheikh Muhammed Al shareef is one of the best lecturer i ever met masha'Allah.

Its true dat Islam is going to get into 73 sects....there is one which is gonna be right.....those people are gonna be who just follow Qur'an and Sunnah nothing other den dat. N I know for sure dat akhi muahmmed al shareef is the righteous muslim masha'Allah...n he follows qur'an and sunnah with all his heart.

Salafis just follow Qur'an and sunnah....tell me whats wrong with them? u got problems den deal wid it...its just yall can't stand dat they are speaking haqq...truth.

Allahmdulillah Allahmdulillah these salafi scholars dey don add anything from their side....whatever they speak its from Qur'an and Sunnah....yall gotta understand dat.

people call me wahabbi cuz I like Abdul Wahaabb....he was masha'Allah pretty cool...he just told people not to worship graves, not to wear amulets, not to ask muhammed pbuh for help...cuz indeed he won't help you its ur amal and duas which is gonna help u in hereAfter...first of all Muahmmed pbuh is dead for us but obviously he is alive there in hereAfter. Its just useless asking our prophet for help....he can just hear u when u recite durrood nothing other than dat.

whatever I mentioned above...dats what salafis think...haqq against baatil.

once again, Muhammed Al Shareef and other Al Maghrib teachers are masha'Allah the best thing every happened to anyone after Qur'an and Sunnah Allahmdulillah.

wasalamualaikum wr wb.

Agnibeena

10-08-2005, 04:31 PM

Have you read Ibn Abdal Wahhab's Kitab al-Tawhid ? If you are going to Saudi arabia to study then that's awesome. However shouldn't you tone down the rhetorics just a little, just because everyone is doing it does not mean you have to !

Azzam

10-08-2005, 05:09 PM

I respect Muhammad Al Sharif, he is very knowledgeable and gets his point out clearly and in a very nice way. I enjoy listening to his tapes and stuff, I have never attended his class but I heard its even better. May Allah reward him for his efforts.

At the same time, we should not go to extremes over this issue. Some people many on this forum adopt the extreme of negativity, while others begin to overpraise.

All praise is due to Allah, and every Muslim has his honour that must be kept by all, but seeking a middle path is necessary.

Fatima_M

10-08-2005, 05:20 PM

Azzam

10-08-2005, 05:47 PM

Wallahi Sister, I enjoy reading and listening to Muhammad Al Sharif and Yasir Qadhi and the rest of the Al Maghrib staff. I fully support them, they are doing an excellent job of teaching the Youth of Islam authentic knowledge and using amazing means to do it. May Allah reward them for their efforts.

However,

We must keep in mind some points

Firstly, we must not blindly follow anyone, and this is stressed by these exact teachers as well, this is why they focus on the evidence and Quran and Sunnah when they teach. But they are humans and can make mistakes. However, their focus is to teach the stuff and content not their personalities. And by blind following I am not speaking about a madhab but blind following of a person.

Secondly, we should not over praise someone beyond what is ok and not in a place where they might see it. Furthermore, it is not fair for those that dont know him or dont share his views that they should have to read about him in this way. It might create unwanted animosity or other negative feelings.

This is exactly what happened to Hamza Yusuf. Some people had issues with him, but his followers ruined it for him and actually makde things worse. They overpraised him and at times possibly they were just trying to show their love, but it created animosity for those on the other side and it really put a bad impression for him.

We dont want this to happen to Muhammad Al Sharif and Allah will reward him for his efforts, but give humble invitations to everyone to attend or listen, if they choose not to then that is their choice. And if they speak in a way that seems to demean Muhammad Sharif then that is their choice, but lets not use personalities as a tool arguments. Defend a Muslim's honor but leave the extras.

Thirdly, about them deserving it (the praise) then the best thing for a person is when Allah loves them, we as feeble humans do not need to praise anyone so that Allah will love them, because we should love who Allah loves and we should hate or dislike who Allah hates or dislikes.

What happens if we love someone so much that we keep loving them and they have done something in private that Allah does not love them. In this case we will love someone who Allah does not love.

Therefore we say masha Allah and May Allah reward them, because they are out there to seek Allah's love not ours, well ours is an extra that with it the person is happy to a point and without it they lose nothing so long as Allah is pleased with them.

I know that you are saying things through sincerity and may Allah reward you for this, but keep things in perspective.

Abu Talaal

10-08-2005, 06:32 PM

Assalaamu alaikum,

You should firstly understand that many of the statements of the four Imaams advising people to follow authentic hadeeths and understand them and so forth, are only addressed to the students of the four Imaams and other who have reached a level where they are capable of making full ijtihad and deciphering inauthentic from authentic hadiths and so on and so forth. These statements were not addressed to people like you and me who have not memorized thousands of hadith and aware of all the hadiths on, for example, how to hold your hands in prayer, and of the principles of naksh (abrogation - i.e. no two authentic hadiths contradict rather one must abrogate the other) and so on.

The problem is Saudi scholars act as mujtahid mutlaqs when they do not meet the qualifications which scholars of the past set out for one to be a mujtahid mutlaq. Imaam as-Suyutee (rahimahullaahu ta'ala) was far, far more knowledgeable than any sheikhs we have today, but he chastized when for even a moment he considered himself a mujtahid mutlaq (i.e. one who can interpret the Qur'an and Sunnah directly without using a school of thought such as the four madhabs).

Al-Suyuti was taken to task for his claim that he was capable of independent scholarly exertion or ijtihad mutlaq. He explained: "I did not mean by that that I was similar to one of the Four Imams, but only that I was an affiliated mujtahid (mujtahid muntasib). For, when I reached the level of tarjih or distinguishing the best fatwa inside the school, I did not contravene al-Nawawi's tarjih. And when I reached the level of ijtihad mutlaq, I did not contravene al-Shafi`is school." He continued: "There is not in our time, on the face of the earth, from East to West, anyone more knowledgeable than myself in hadith and the Arabic language, save al-Khidr or the Pole of saints or some other Wali - none of whom do I include into my statement - and Allah knows best."7 He also said of himself: "When I went on hajj I drank Zamzam water for several matters. Among them: (I asked) that I reach, in fiqh, the level of Shaykh Siraj al-Din al-Bulqini and in hadith, that of the hafiz Ibn Hajar."

What do we see from the head Salafi scholars? They claim to be able to intepret the Qur'an and Sunnah directly, they claim to be able to decipher which hadiths are authentic, and so on. This is why you see them present so much from the Qur'an and Sunnah in their fatawa. However, you are not allowed to interpret the Qur'an and Sunnah directly unless you are a mujtahid mutlaq of which there are none in our time as the last one died several hundred years ago and to be a mujtahid mutlaq you must have ijaza from a mujtahid mutlaq.

Ibn Rajab On Fraudulent Taqlid

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The hadith master and imam Ibn Rajab Al-Hanbali authored a wonderful work where he demonstrated the various ways in which Allah Most High has preserved the ummah of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace). In addition to illustrating how the Qur'an, hadith, and sunnah of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) were recorded and showing how students should be inspired by the example of Imam Ahmad (Allah be well pleased with him), he talks a bit about taqlid. Since taqlid was one of yesterday's issues, it seems appropriate to quote a small passage from it.

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The hadith master and imam, Ibn Rajab Al-Hanbali wrote:

If it is asked: "So what do you say about another imam's school if it has been recorded, corrected, and memorized, just like their schools?"

It is said: Firstly, this is not known to exist right now. If we assumed that it did take place right now and conceded the permissibility of following it and affiliating with it, this would not be permissible except for someone who visibly shows affiliation to it, gives fatawa according to it and defends his school.

As for someone who outwardly shows affiliation to one of the famous imams while he is secretly affiliated with someone else, firmly believing in his school, this is absolutely impermissible. It is a form of hypocrisy and outward dissimulation (taqiya): especially if he took money reserved for the followers of that famous school, such as endowments; or deceived people, making them believe that the fatwa he gives from the school he secretly affiliates with is really from the school of the famous imam.

This certainly is impermissible. It is a deception toward the umma and a lie toward the scholars of the umma. Whoever ascribes to the imams of Islam something they did not say, or something known to be contrary to what they say, is a liar worthy of punishment just as if he had authored a book following a particular school and in it mentions an opinion he believes to be from the one he secretly affiliated to without ascribing it to its proponent; or if the authored book is not confined to a specific school, and the author outwardly affiliated with a particular imam while secretly affiliating with another imam and he mentions the opinion of the one he secretly affiliates with without clarifying that they disagree with the school the outwardly affiliates with.

All of this is impermissible fraud and deception, leading to tainting and confusing the scholars' schools.

If he also claims ijtihad, it is more crafty and bitter, and of greater corruption and more pig-headed. This is absolutely impermissible except for someone possessing the complete tools of ijtihad: knowing the Qur'an, sunna, legal rulings of the Companions and the Successors (Allah be well pleased with them), knowing areas of consensus and difference, and the rest of the well known conditions for ijtihad. This requires much inspection of the sunna, knowing its sound from its sick, knowing the schools of the Companions and their Successors (Allah be well pleased with them), and the accounts related from them concerning this.

Because of this, Imam Ahmad was strict in the matter of fatwa, and held back from it anyone who did not memorize one hundred thousand hadiths, two hundred thousand, and more. The indication of the proof of his claim is that concerning issues he was independent in his opinions, just like the other imams; his opinions not taken from someone else. As for someone who relies solely on conveying someone else's words (whether it be the ruling or the ruling with evidence): the goal of his toil is to understand it. Perhaps he did not understand it well, corrupted it, or changed it. How far this is from ijtihad!

Really, you are making taqleed of the head Salafi scholars when you become a Salafi. You take those hadiths which are authenticated by al-Albani firstly, instead of those authenticated by the far more knowledgeable mujtahids of the past. You take the fatawa of their scholars even when they disagree with hundreds of the top mashayikh of the past who had far better knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah and arguably feared Allah a lot more because of the amount of worship they did (which we do not see duplicated today).

If you look carefully, you will see that the main differences between Salafis and Hambalees originate with Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy upon them both). These two sheikhs were very knowledgeable but differed from the norms of the Hambalee madhab in some ways. Largely, the Salafis follow these differences and have gone astray from the Hambalee madhab in these ways. Hence, you find anthromorphism in them (such as saying Allah has two eyes), you find some of them justifying the killing of innocents (the extreme minority), and there are many other issues...

What is funny is they reject some aspects of Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim. Ibn Taymiyyah made tasawwuf yet Salafis are against this, why? Tasawwuf has always been recognized as a part of orthodox Islam, although there have always been extremists (many of whom we see today).

Ibn al-Qayyim wrote a whole treatise on how the jihad of the nafs is the greatest jihad yet the Salafis reject this, and you see many of them going to the lands of jihad without proper preparation and without having defeated their nafs. As a result, they are not ready for jihad.

These are just two examples. I advise you to be very careful who you take your deen from and how you take it. You will be held accountable and you are responsible for your actions. If you choose to take your deen from people who differ from classical Islamic scholars (including the best of them) than go ahead. But you have been warned.

I used to be a Salafi and I can only hope you learn the truth about these matters. You will find that if you purchase and read the books of classical Hambalee scholars (from non-Salafi publishers - since the Saudis tend to edit their books and cut things out) you will see just how far the Salafis have strayed from orthodox Islam.

I advise you to read Ibn Rajab in his book ‘al-Radd ‘ala Man Ittaba’a Ghair Madhahib al-Arba’ah’ (Rebuttal of those who follow other than the four Madhabs) from a neutral publisher (not a Salafi one). I believe the hambalee sheikh of Damascus Sheikh Musa Furber is in the process of translating this book to help people follow the haqq and many of those who have erred and left the Hambalee madhab for the Salafi school out of sheer ignorance.

In his time Ibn Rajab rahimahullah saw the same problem Salafi scholars have today: his book is a general advice to some of his contemporaries amongst the jurists who, despite being non-mujtahids, also freed themselves from Taqleed, and began to issue verdicts that fall outside of the four Madhabs.

I also advise you to read:

Fatwa Concerning the Obligation of Following Rightly Guided Scholars

By: Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
52 pages
Paperback
Fatwa Concerning the Obligation of Following Rightly Guided Scholars is a compilation of four articles that put forth a crisp, compelling argument to the necessity of following qualified scholarship, including an introduction by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. The four articles included are: Fatwa Concerning the Obligation of Following Rightly Guided Scholars by Murabit al-Hajj, The Necessity of Following One of the Four Accepted Schools by Hamza Yusuf, Fatwa by the Noble Father of Al-Sayyid Muhammad bin `Alawi Al-Maliki Al-Hasani, and The Decision of the Committee of Leading Scholars Concerning Juridical Differences Between the Schools (Madhahib) and the Intolerant Following of These Schools by Some Adherents. Each article is laid out beautifully with referential footnotes. Also included is the original Arabic text of Sidi Murabit Al-Hajj's Fatwa, along with a beautiful chart of the first three generations of Islam depicting the chain or isnad of each of the Four Imams to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace).

Here, just as a brief example, are some of the mistakes in Salafi material you would never notice. Sheikh Ibn Baaz considered himself a mujtahid and as such he followed the Qur'an and Sunnah directly despite not having the credentials to do so.

Here is an example of errors you can find in the book of Sheikh Ibn Baaz rahimahullah:

After reading the pages concerning Prayer, I really do not see how http://www.fiqh.net is Hanbali. There's quite a bit more to Hanbali fiqh than making a collage of hadiths you like and pulling out a few quotes from scholars.

What follows are just a few comments. If it gets lengthy, please be sure to read the final paragraph.

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Fiqh of Salah Volume #2
<<Shaikh AbdulAziz Bin Abdullah Bin Bazz [Rahamahullah], quotes in his book "Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)'s manner of performing prayers" "To turn one's face and whole body towards the Ka'aba, intending by heart to perform the prayer which he wants to fulfill, whether it is an obligatory prayer or a supererogatory prayer, the worshipper in all cases, should not pronounce his intention openly, because neither the Prophet nor his companions used to utter the intention for prayer. Thus, pronouncing the intention for prayer in audible voice is a heresy and an illicit action.>>

This last phrase, "pronouncing the intention for prayer in audible voice is a heresy and an illicit action," is absolutely unacceptable. This is nothing short of a pronouncing apostasy, and on quite a large number of Muslims at that. It is impossible for me to confirm what Sheikh Ibn Bazz (may Allah be merciful with him) said, but I'm quite sure that what he said is that the person is an innovator (mubtadi`). The problem with accusing someone of heresy is that, well: if you're wrong, you're it.

The most that can be said for this issue is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not do it. Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah be merciful with him) considers this an innovation (bid`a), but this is his personal opinion, and it is something that the scholars after him mention when listing opinions contrary to the one used for fatwa. In Al-Furu`, Ibn Muflih considers pronouncing it to the correct position (1:129), Al-Ba`li says in Kashf Al-Mukhaddarat that slips of the tongue cause no harm (1:125), as did Mar`i bin Yusuf in Dalil al-talib and Al-Taglabi in Nail al-ma'arib (1:62). And Al-Mughni, Ibn Qudama tops them all in first saying "...whenever he believes it in his heart, it suffices-- even if he did not pronounce it with his tongue" (Al-Mughni (1:101)).

Pronouncing intention is something that the scholars mention as an aide in forming the intention itself. People who have clear intention have no need for this. But people who have a ton of tashwish, self-inflicted or not, need this.

So, pronouncing it is unlawful ("illicit") puts one beyond the pale of Islam ("heresy")? Hardly. And the Shafi`is agree with the Hanbalis on this one.

And Allah knows best.

Fiqh Of Salah Volume #6
<<Shaikh AbdulAziz Bin Bazz writes in his book of Salah "Then the worshipper raises his head saying "Allahu Akbar" taking a pause similar to the pause between the two prostration; this is called "the pause for rest." It is recommended for the worshipper to do such a pause, but there is no sin if he desists from it. Then the worshipper rises up and stands supporting on his knees, or on the ground if he cannot support himself on the knees, reads the Fatihah (The opening Sura of the glorious Quran) and some other verses of the Quran and do as just as he did in the first Rakaah (unit of prayer).">>

No, he lifts his hands, puts them on his knees, and then stands up; and if there is any difficulty, he can put his hands--palms down--to push himself up. This is what you're find in Al-Raud al-murbi`, Nail al-ma'arbin and every other book of Hanbali fiqh. What the sheikh described above agress with the Shafi`is, but can actually invalidate a Hanbali's prayer.

Fiqh Of Salah Volume #7
<<An other key point to be taken from this hadith is that the practice of a Sahabi or of any pious scholar by itself cannot be taken as proof to be Sunnah or followed without direct instructions that this practice is from Rasulullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam). Some of the scholars take the practice of Sahaba or great scholars over marfoo Hadith of Rasulullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and indeed this is great error as stated clearly by Ibn 'Umar (Radhiallahu ?n) in the above mentioned hadith.>>

First of all: May Allah be pleased with them on and all.

As for the content:

Really? Ever heard of abrogation? Ever heard of ijma`? Ever heard of reconciling between outwardly incompatible hadiths of the same degree of authenticity? Ever heard of following the fatwa of a Companion (Allah be pleased with them one and all) when no other Companion's objection is known? None of the Imams or their students after them simply turned their back on a rigorously authenticated hadith.

What, pray tell, should we call it when someone picks out one hadith that agrees with them and then ignore everything of equal or even greater weight that disagrees with them? Odd behavior, then the scholars have stated that "employing a piece of evidence is superior to leaving it be" (al-`imal kharan min al-ihmal).

<<It is mentioned din the book of Fiqh of the four Madhahib "According to the Shai'iyyah, one points with the finger only once, when saying "except Allah" in the statement bearing witness. The Hanifiyyah raise the finger in the denial part of the statement (there is no Allah) and put it back down during the confirmation part (except Allah). The Malikiyyah move the finger to the left and right until they finish the prayer. The Hanbaliyyah point with the finger every time they mention Allah, as a reflection of the oneness of Allah, and they do not move it. This opinion of the Hanbaliyyah is supported by the hadith reported by Abu Dawud "When Rasulullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it" About "supplicating with it", Imaam Tahaawi the well known hanafi Imaam [even though he was not hanbali or maliki but due to his strict adherence to the following of hadith] said, "This is evidence that it was all the way to the end of the prayer." Hence, there is evidence in this that the Sunnah is to continue pointing and moving the finger until the tasleem, for as long as one is supplicating and supplication is until the end. This is the view of Imaam Malik and of Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal. Imaam Ahmad was asked, "Should a man point with his finger during prayer?" He replied, "Yes, vigorously." [Mentioned by Ibn Haani in his Masaa'il of Imaam Ahmad, Volume#1 Page#80]. From this, it is clear that moving the finger in tashahhud is a proven sunnah of Rasulullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and it was practiced by Imaam Ahmad, Imaam Malik and other Imaams of the Sunnah.>>

Hanifi: Kind of right, because there are at least three opinions listed in Al-Lubab.

Maliki: Kind of right, because there is at last two other opinions, one of them being that the finger simply points, and a second being that it is raise up and then lowered. And in each of the opinions, it is done slowly for the sake of khushu`, not quickly.

Shafi`i: Kind of right, because the finger is always extended but it is not raised until the phrase of Tawhih, and it then remains raised until the very end.

Hanbali: Kind of right, because he (1) either raise it ONLY when mentioning the phrase "Allah", or (2) just points without moving. This is what you find in Hanbali books authored by Hanbali Imams who were quite aware of that quote attributed to Imam Ahmad (may Allah be pleased with him). First saying that the madhhab is not to move and then ending with saying that it is to move continuously, isn't this, like, sort of, you know, self contradictory? None of what was mentioned here proves anything. Where are the hadiths with their sources and a judgment on their veracity? Oh, and even if it were the stronger opinion: the hadiths say "move", not "vibrate".

<<Imaam Ahmad Bin Hanbali and the Ahl-ul-Hadith who followed him considered the correct method of Witr to be 2 rakats and then salam and then one rakat this>>

No, they considered this the most superior among several ways that one can pray a three rak`a witr. But if someone prayed like Hanafis, it's acceptable, too. And Imam Ahmad (may Allah be pleased with him) listed quite a few numbers of rak`at and various ways to pray each one.

It is very rare to find cases where variations of performing a given action have been transmitted and Imam Ahmad (may Allah be pleased with him) says that only one is correct. Saying that one is correct entails that the rest are wrong and invalid. What he typically does is say that they are all correct, but one particular is superior. This is one of the most beautiful aspects of Imam Ahmad's approach (may Allah be pleased with him) and something the madhhab--wa al-hamdu lillah!--retained. And it's also something that many claiming to be Hanbalis usually always [repitition intended] completely lack.

<<...there are many hadith from the Sahih Sita>>

No, al-kutub al-sittah. Only two books are guaranteed by ijma` to be rigorously authenticated. The other four are the source for almost all other authentic hadiths. Calling them "the six sound books" is misleading.

<<In the madhab of Imaam Ahmad the Qunot is after Rukuh as narrated in these Sahih Hadith >>

I don't know about doing qunut after rukuh.

What I do know is that the position in the madhhab is that it is better to do qunut after coming up from ruku` with the hands lifted, but it is still permissible to do it before going down into ruku`. This clearly is not as limited as is put here.

<<According to all the Imaams of Fiqh and the people of hadith Qunoot can be read in any Salah to supplicate for Muslims in need or to ask for the wrath of Allah on Kufar who are persecuting Muslims. The proof for this can be found in the following ahadith.>>

Kind of. With the Hanbalis it's offensive for anyone other than the Imam [with a capital letter aye] to do this, and then only in the obligatory prayers.

So, you see, is this what you want to follow in your deen? Do you not realize the times we are in where there are very few scholars left and knowledge is slowly dissapearing from the earth? Do you not see the levels of ignorance that plague this ummah which have never reached this level before?

Na'audhobillah.

I would also like to add that are you willing to follow these scholars, contemporary in nature, who do not have the qualifications to interpret the Qur'an and Sunnah directly? These scholars presenting things which are not part of orthodox Islam and the true history (not the fake one written in Salafi books) of orthodox scholars? Those who maintained not only strict adherence to the shariah but also tasawwuf as a purification of the heart?

Are you not willing to follow one of the four madhahib each of which contain a number of mujtahids as well as hundreds if not thousands of lesser scholars?

You are not simply following one of the four Imams, far from it. Following a madhab means following the understandings of the greatest Islamic scholars which none of the scholars today come even close to. For over a 1,000 years each of the four madhabs has been annotated and perfected and purified and revived. This while Salafiyyah has only appeared recently and has several errors and has never been accepted as part of orthodox Islam nor as a fifth madhab.

Is there even any comparison? Why anyone would want to even both trivializing their deen by letting contemporary scholars (in these periods of great ignorance, where true scholars are very few [and understand their limitations and therefore do not call themselves mujtahid mutlaqs] and fake scholars are abound) interpret the Qur'an and Sunnah for them? What jahiliyyah is this!!

This is a grave mistake and you will be leaving the orthodox Islam which is followed by the vast majority (ash shab al adheem) and you will be in great error in this regard. Fiqhi issues involving salaat and so on could be rendered invalid by following certain areas of Salafi thought.

It is no surprise that Salafiyyah has led to many strange Islamic rulings in our time and has led to giving a forum for a minority of Salafis who are extremists and who justify the killing of innocent civilians. Do you not realize that many of the more extreme Salafis were moderate until they saw the lies and deception of the Saudi government and its stooges? These people were then led to an extreme form of Salafiyyah which allows killing civilians under the justification of an eye for an eye - i.e. equality. They even support their material in an authentic Salafi way.

If you go and follow Salafiyyah you will be heading down a path filled with darkness and confusion where there is no light and where judgements are based on who can quote more Qur'an and hadeeth and interpret them in a way that is not permissible in this time because of the great lack of knowledge and lack of mujtahid mutlaqs and people meeting the requirements of this level.

Azzam

10-08-2005, 07:41 PM

This is a really nice long post you have posted. However, I dont understand what you are getting at.

Sheikh Ibnu Baz is one scholar who was good and had errors just as everyone else.

I want to ask you a question, even though the people from the other side claim that some people are liars and not real hanabilah, please state for me some of the imams from the interior that you know or have met that are known to be hanbali. I am talking about the Qaseem Region and other mainly inaccessible areas for general people in Saudi.

There are different followers of Hanbali madhab some are traditional hanabilah, those who prefer the books of Al Imam Ibn Qudama and there are also other hanbalis that prefer the books of Al Imam Ibn Taymiyyah.

In most cases as you mentioned sheikh Ibnu Baz is in favour of Ibn Taymiyyah but he does not put aside the books of Imam Ibn Qudama and other traditional hanbali scholars. However my shuyukh have studied the hanbali madhab and are from saudi and may be considered "Salafi" by some but never studied with Sheikh bin Baz or Albani for that matter.

As for Sheikh Albani, then he is a muhaddith pretty much. Sheikh Tuwayjri wrote a reply to his Prayer Book emphasizing some errors. Sheikh Tuwayjri is hanbali but may also be considered "Salafi" as well.

Please provide the names of the scholars you or anyone has met from the Arabian Peninsula, that would qualify you're assumption that all those that are considered "Salafi" do not follow Hanbali fiqh. Remember I said "all" not some.

And what are your opinions of Sheikh Hamoud ibn Al Uqla Ash Shuaibi (Hanbali), Sheikh Abdur Rahman ibn Jibreen (Hanbali), Sheikh Amin Ash Shinqiti (Maliki)?

Abu Talaal

10-08-2005, 08:04 PM

Your questions have been addressed at Hanbali Text Society. Much of Salafi fiqh is the same as Hanbali fiqh. However, a number of aspects differ and these lie with some of the points of Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim may Allah have mercy upon them both.

I advise you to contact the brothers there and they will show you where Salafis have gone wrong. They are dedicated to this purpose and they are pure Hanbalis.

http://www.htspub.com/

Please read all the posts in their forum too you will find them insightful.

They are far, far, far, far more knowledgeable than I am.

I am just your meagre layman who is also trying to follow Islam in the most correct manner.

Abu Talaal

10-08-2005, 08:07 PM

Once again, anyone considering Salafiyyah should realize its deviations. Please listen to this:

If you don't have much time, listen to Part 2 first. If you have time, listen to both consecutively. It should demonstrate the manifest problems in trying to interpret the Qur'an and Sunnah as per the Salafi scholars.

Right click save as

Part 1 on taqleed

http://nadeem.lightuponlight.com/ISLAMIC%20SERVER%2005/Riyadhul%20Haq-Brief%20Descritpion%20of%20Taqleed%20Part1.mp3

Part 2 on taqleed

http://nadeem.lightuponlight.com/ISLAMIC%20SERVER%2005/Riyadhul%20Haq-Brief%20Descritpion%20of%20Taqleed%20Part2.mp3

That is all I have to say on this matter. May Allah guide us all and make us follow Islam most correctly. Aameen.

Abu Talaal

10-08-2005, 08:20 PM

This is a really nice long post you have posted. However, I dont understand what you are getting at.

Maybe you should re-read. I was explaining why Salafiyyah is an incorrect bridge to practicing Islam.

As a sidenote:
As much as Salafis want Muslims to unite upon Salafiyyah, it is a force that has caused great disunity and hatred.

They claim that following madhabs produces sectarianism but the truth of the matter is more sectarianism has arisen with the arrival of the Salafees than ever before.

Among the Salafis themselves you will find approximately a dozen groups (amazing isn't it!!!). The seperation grows each year. 10 years ago in the west there was very little division amongst Salafis. But each year new forms take place as one scholar refutes another and the followers of this scholar follow him even after being refuted, etc... and there are various degrees of moderate and extreme interpretations in Salafiyyah.

See for yourself the divisions (and this listing only has 8 groups but I have been informed there are now a dozen total, if not more):

Al-Salafiyoon: Salafis and the Salafi Dawa[1]

By Dr. Tariq Abdelhaleem

Table of Contents
Salafism السلفية

The Salafis السلفيون

Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a أهل السنة والجماعة

Murji'ah and Khawarij

The Salafi Groups

First Group: The Jami or Madkhali Group الإتجاة الجامي المدخلي
Second Group: The Albani Group إتجاه الألباني
Third Group: The Academic Salafis السلفية العلمية
Fourth Group: The Conventional Shaiks of Salafiyah مشايخ السلفية
Fifth Group: The Salafi “Ikhwan” سلفيو الإخوان المسلمون
Sixth Group: The Salafi Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a
سلفيو أهل السنة
Seventh Group: the Moderate Ahlul Sunnah Wal- Jama'a الوسط أهل السنة
Eighth Group: the Jihadis of Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'aالجهاديون من أهل السنة
Conclusion

This subject, amongst many others, is poorly represented, if at all represented to the English speaking Muslims. It is rather sad that many of the non-Arabic speaking Muslims in Europe and North America have no, or very little, references to guide them on both the academic level and the practical level. This paper is intended to explain the main principles, terms of references of the main streams of some of the modern Islamic "Schools of thought". It will also explain the stand of these groups in major contemporary subjects (democracy, governments, etc.). These groups might have some common ground, although they are completely different in many details when it comes to the application of the theoretical principles of the Islamic thought.

Salafism السلفية

The term Salaf سلف in the Arabic language means in its general sense "the late", or what is before, and in more specific meaning "the predecessor". However, this term has been used by the Muslim Scholars of Ahlul Sunnah[2], since the time of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal to point to the good predecessors of the first three generations that were mentioned in the Hadith of the Prophet PBUH: "The best generations are those of my generation[3], then those who follow, and then those who follow"[4]. The 'Goodness" الخيرية of the three generations mentioned in the Hadith signifies that these are the best followers of the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH. The term was widely used by almost all of Ahlul Sunnah scholars over the history of Islam.

However, in recent years, following the decline of the Caliphate, the map of Islamic politics has completely changed. Secularism[5] has taken over in shaping the laws and legal systems of almost all of the Muslim countries. The Governments of Muslims have openly adopted secularism as the alternative to Islam. In almost all of the constitutions of these governments it refers to Islam as "one of the sources of legislation" as opposed to "the one and only source of legislation" in accordance with the basic principles of Tawheed. However, one exception to that is the constitution of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where it states that it follows the Quran and Sunnah and it derives all its laws in accordance with Islam. This has been the stand of the Saudi government and officials, however there are many opponents of the Saudi system opposed to this view on the basis that although the Saudi government claims that stand in the constitution, in reality they legislate many laws that are derived from secular sources[6].

The Salafis السلفيون

During the seventies, the decade that is perceived as "the Decade of the Islamic Revival", and with the emergence of the contemporary Islamic movement in Egypt and the Arab peninsula, the term "Salafi" and 'Al-Salafiyoon"[7] emerged to signify a specific group of people with a specific mandate. It was first used by the group of Egyptian "shaiks" such as Mohamed Ibn Ismail محمد اسماعيل of Alexandria, and later by Muqbel Al-Wadieمقبل الوادعى of Yemen[8]. They were students of Hadith whose legitimacy in the Islamic movement[9] was their claim to be followers of the group that was known in the history of Islamic thought as "People of Hadith" أهل الحديث as opposed to those of "People of Opinion"[10] أهل الرأي. However, the term "Salafis" rather than "Ahlul Hadith" (People of Hadith), was used to label them and their followers. At that time, there were other groups who used to follow the same principle – adherence to Hadith and Sunnah in general, but with other interpretations of the mandate of Sunnah when applied to the present situation. These differences have given way to the emergence of other schools of thought. These schools of thought can either being labelled under the "Salafi" term, as they still follow the Salaf, or, as they prefer to call themselves: "Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a".

Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a أهل السنة والجماعة

The term Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a points to those who agree to the principles of Tawheed in its two categories: Al-Ruboobiyah and Al-Uloohiyah. It is essential to mention that each of these terms is not completely exclusive to a certain group. Also, terms were sub-categorized on the basis of the subject in question. For instance, the term Ahlul Sunnah points to those who follow Sunnah rather than Bida'a. Thus, it distinguishes between Sunnis and Shiites or Mu'tazilites.

However, when it comes to the subject of the Names and Attributes of Allah SWT, it points to those who affirmed the attributes without any Taaweel with complete negation of any similarity with humans. This excludes the Ash'aries الأشعرية who partially used Taweel, and the Mu'tazilah المعتزلة who completely distort the Attributes of Allah SWT and went out of the way of the Salaf, Ahlul Hadith and Ahlul Sunnah; no matter which term you use.

In that era of the revival of the Islamic thought (the seventies), other groups adopted this approach, the adherence to Shariah evidence, and denial of the secular laws, not only in relation to the Attributes, but also in understanding and evaluating the present situation in the political arena. In the next few pages we will attempt to map out the spectrum of the Salafi groups, including the groups who are more attached to the term "Ahlul Sunnah". We will first clarify some terms used by each of these groups to prosecute the other, either justifiably or not. Those are the "Murji'ah" and "Khawarij".

Murji'ah and Khawarij

The Murji'ah is a sect that traces its origin to the second century, where some people adopted a school of thought that denies the importance of actions in Islam, and concentrate heavily on the actions of the heart and what is called the "Aqeeda" or belief in the heart. Iman for that group is merely theoretical. It is the set of beliefs that a person holds that makes him Muslim.

The Khawarij are those people who denied the right of Ali Ibn Abi Taleb (RA) the right to arbitrate in the crisis with Muawiyah (RA) over the punishment of the killers of Uthman (RA). They split the Jama'a (Ali's group) and started to fight Ali (RA) and kill anyone who stands with him, even if he is a companion. Later, their successors developed a theoretical base and twisted the evidence from Quran and Sunnah to justify their Bida'a. They came up with the opinion that sins are Kufr. It follows that any Muslim who commits a sin becomes a Kafir and he/she can be killed as a punishment. They considered Ali and his camp as sinners and so was Muawiyah. Sins that are considered Kufr by Khawarij are these actions that Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a consider as sins only and not Kufr; such as adultery, Riba, drinking, killing, lying, back biting and so on. Scholars considered the Hadith of the Prophet PBUH describing a group of people who will come after his time and "… kill the people of Islam and leave in peace the people of idols"[11] as a clear text in Khawarij.

Necessary clarifications:

It is important to point out that in order to qualify as a member of a sect one needs to adopt all the "common principles" of that sect, as pointed out by Imam Al-Shatibi. Unfortunately, opposing factions of the "Salafi" groups, as well as the other Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a groups used to accuse each other with such Bida'as. Groups who belong to the upper side of the spectrum call the later as Khawarij and visa versa. We are not claming that all these groups are correct, as truth is only but one, but they all do not belong completely to either of the sects. It is better to say that one group has been delusional "by some of the doubts that Murji'ah have" or "by some of the doubts of Khawarij" rather than being Murji'ah or Khawarij, as Ibn Taymiyah mentioned. There can be a group of Salafis or those who belongs to Ahlul Sunnah that have some beliefs in common with either of the mentioned sects, but as mentioned, this does not justify labelling them as either Khawarij or Murji'ah. It is always better to stick to the understanding and behaviour of the Salaf. Allah SWT said: "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." (Al-Maidah 8).

It is also important to point out that not every individual or group who claims to follow Quran and Sunnah actually do so. We have seen lately that some Sufis call themselves "Ahlul Sunnah"! This is propaganda aiming at attracting the common simple minded Muslim who does not distinguish between what is right and what is wrong, but have enough sense to know that the term Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a is what Muslims should belong to. We have to be clear in regards to Bida'a and sects. Sufis, Mu'tazilah, Khawarij and the innovated sects are not among Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a or the Salafis (in its broader meaning), even if they claim to be so. It is their principles and methodology of understanding the Sunnah that is the judge.

Furthermore, it is imperative to understand that the points which we stated in reference to a group are not necessarily all adopted by each of the individuals that belong to the group. They, however, share most of these points. For instance, Ali Al-Halabi has openly stated in his books what we stated in point (1). Al-Madkhali, on the other hand, has been the leader and activist of points (6) and on. It is however, the analysis of his views in his book “منهج الأنبياء في الدعوة إلى الله” (Methodology of the Prophets in calling to the Way of Allah), that connect his views of Iman to Al-Halabi. Al-Halabi, also, is a student of Al-Madkhali and has published and approved books that carry such views in Iman as in the book of Murad Shokry “إحكام التقرير في أحكام التكفير” (fastening the Rules of Takfeer), which was refuted and prohibited by the committee of Fatwa of Saudi Arabia #20212, due to the Irja'a that it carries. The same applies to group #6, as will come later, Dr Salah Al-Sawi has somethings in common with Gamal Sultan. However, some views of these two blessed Du'aat are completely different. This is the nature of trying to group ideologies. It will always be the case that some vagueness and grey areas will surround the border lines of the grouping where individuals who belong to such groups might partially fall under one or the other. I ask Allah to forgive any mistake or misjudgement that might take place without intention. However, I strongly stand by these views that I expressed here below until a poof of the opposite is provided.

For the purpose of this study, we divided those who belong to the methodology "Manhaj" of Ahlul Sunnah (the Salafis in its broader meaning; following the Salaf rather than those specific groups labelled as Salafis) or in following the evidence of Quran and Sunnah to eight groups. Some of those groups accept the label of "Salafis" and are known as the "Salafis", while the others deny being "Salafis" (in its narrow meaning) and would rather call themselves "Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a". We will look into the stand of these groups in relation to:

Governments
Democratic process and voting
Takfeer of a specific person
Ijtihad and Taqleed[12] "who is entitled to look into evidence?".
We have to keep in mind the following:

All the following groups claim to follow the evidence of Quran and Sunnah. However, the question is not whether a group reverts to Quran or Hadith for guidance, it is simply whether they interpret the evidence in the same way and use the same methodology of the first three preferred generations to reach a fatwa.

Difference of opinion can be in either the belief itself, as between the Murji'ah and Ahlul Sunnah in the subject of Iman, or in the application of some common beliefs, where a Fatwa is issued based on different perceptions of the situation on hand.

Muslims in the West, and specifically the Islamic groups, are almost exclusively a small insignificant branch of one of the following groups. We did not mention any of them as they are not significant in any way in affecting the spectrum or shaping any new direction that can be addressed separately.

Also, it is important to mention that as new Muslims who revert from other religions, or born Muslim reverts, are approached by Sufis to drag them away from the way of Sunnah, some of the Salafi groups do the same tactics especially those who are active in Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Jordan (the 1st and 2nd groups) by addressing specific audience such as the young, needy and totally ignorant of Islam. They try to promote the idea of Ijtihad and Taqleed and that no one is allowed to make Ijtihad except scholars, which is correct in itself, but often used to affirm a wrong conclusion. But, as they shape up the minds of those who listen to them and attend their contrivances, the “scholars” will be their scholars, period! They also promote the correct concept of Muslims should be careful in applying "Kufr" standards to sway away people from realizing the Shariah ruling in regards to situations that are as clear as the light of the sun, as in the Hadith! They do a lot of brain damage to the minds of such youths.

The Salafi Groups

First Group: The Jami or Madkhali Group
الإتجاة الجامي المدخلي :
The leaders and founders of this group are:

Mohammad Aman Jami محمد أمان الجامي of Ethiopia and
Rabie Al-Madkhali ربيع المدخلي of Yemen [13]: they both got all or part of their education in Saudi Arabia.
Mohammad Albana محمد البنا of Egypt.
Ali Alhalabi على الحلبي of Jordan.
They are also represented in Canada by the so called “Quran and Sunnah Society (QSS)” [14]. The core of their principles is to:

Consider Iman as only the Aqeeda in the heart, and that actions are a complimentary condition to Iman شرط كمال.
The falling of this is to consider that ruling with secular laws by a government is permissible as they consider it an action rather than Aqeeda.
They perceive the existing ruling systems in the Muslim lands as legitimate and must be obeyed.
They went out of their way to legitimize the existing ruling systems and make the rulers of the secular governments legitimate Walis[15] (rulers) and show that they are as good as the Salaf rulers, especially the Saudi system.
They say that being in power is the source of legitimacy by itself. They also consider that those who oppose these governments are "Khawarij".
They gave a Fatwa that it is Wajib "obligatory" to report to the authorities the people of Dawa that do not follow their principles as they are Khawarij!
They have categorized almost all the Du'aat (people of Dawa or calling for the path of Allah SWT) and bashed them as ignorant or people of Bida'a or Kuffar! They have many websites that are dedicated to bashing Du'aat! They legitimize their spying actions as performing what they see as the "Science of Criticism" or what is known in the Islamic sciences as "Elm Aljarh and Ta'deel"!
Of course, this group has no reservations on accepting democracy as a framework; as they do not interfere in the political process whatsoever in accordance with their principles.
In terms of Ijtihad and Taqleed, they adopt the same approach as Ahlul Sunnah where only scholars are allowed to give Fatwas. However, scholars are only those who agree with their point of view!
It is ironic and of great sorrow as well, that although this group of the Salafi spectrum attacks and refutes the Aqeeda and methodology of Sufism, as all other Salafi groups, they have an important feature in common with the Sufis; that is the way they raise their followers: “the blind-minded follower scheme”. Sufis, as well as Salafis of this group, teach their followers to completely lock up their minds and follow the directions, opinions and sayings of their specific ‘Shaikhs” religiously as if they are unannounced prophets. Sufis, teach their followers that to follow a shaikh is to follow Allah SWTand His messenger PBUH in whatever the Shaikh says. They provide evidences that are completely false and misused. This group of Salafis teaches the same attitude through different evidence. Although their evidence is true in general, it is, again, taken out its context and used in an overly subordinating fashion. The place of mind and self thinking and intellect has completely diminished from the followers of these two groups: the Sufis and group one of the Salafis. They both failed to recognize that although, contrary to the Mu’tazilah, Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a emphasise the need for the common person to ask those who have the knowledge, they did not completely destroy the capacity of the common person to respond to the simplest events of life that surround him/her. The reason for such tactic by G1 Salafis is obvious: the evidence and the interpretation of Quran and Sunnah as well as the outcome of such interpretation can not stand the scrutiny of the youth if they are allowed to think and question the Shaiks. This is contrary to Ahlul Sunnah who teach their followers to always ask for the proof of what they claim as Sunnah and not to be scared of hearing the opposing opinions and to always come back with questions if not convinced. The result of such tactics is devastating; a generation that are although have the outside of good humble and obedient Muslims, that is crippled almost totally and completely dependent on few names scattered over some Middle Eastern countries to tell them what to think of Bush or how to perceive a tyrant that kills Muslim Du’aat and force his society to rule with a parallel Shariah of his own! This is what is most dangerous about such groups of Sufis and G1 Salafis. This point will be further explained in Part 2 of this research.

They made a goal of their life to throw the accusation of Kufr on a particular great Da'iyah (singular of Du'aat): Sayed Qutb. They all wrote volumes in his Kufr! And they completely discarded his Tafseer "In the Shade of the Quran" as a book of misguidance!
This stand against Sayed Qutb is actually against their official view of not making Takfeer (applying Kufr) to anyone!
Of course they have no place for Jihad in their version of Islam.
This group is perceived by all other groups as pure Murji'ah[16]. They hold the worst ideas and they do not hesitate on snitching on fellow Muslims to the authorities, under a claim that such people (who call for following the Quran and Sunnah as the constitution and as basis for public life) are hazards to the general public and must be eliminated! The followers of this group are spread in the Muslim motherland and in the West as well. They fool the common Muslim by claiming to be Ahlul Sunnah and act as if their stand is the pure truth! However, although they were able to fool many common Muslims and some reverts to Islam from the West, they are almost rejected everywhere else.

They can be perceived as the "flip flop group"! Aside from being wrong in interpretation of the evidence, they hold no consistency in their methodology (Manhaj). They are "Murji'ah" when it come to rulers and governments, and they are "Khawarij" when it comes to other Du'aat! In the final analysis of their stand, they fit the criteria of the Hadith of Khawarij. They call for Takfeer of Du'aat (which are the people of Islam in the Hadith) and they call for peace and obedience to the rulers who embrace the secular systems![17]

Second Group: The Albani Group إتجاه الألباني :
Although Shaikh Nasir Al-Deen Al-Albani ناصر الدين الألباني (may Allah have mercy on his soul) is not the only scholar that is under this group, but we labelled the group after him as he was the most well known amongst those who belong to it. This group has been delusional by some of the doubts that Murji'ah have[18']. The essence of this group is as follows:

They adopt the same point of view as the first group in Iman[18]. It is important here to mention that this view of Iman was adopted in the history of Islamic beliefs by Abu Hanifah and some of his followers. They were perceived by the rest of Ahlul Sunnah as "Murji'ah of the Sunnah!". However, the Hanafi Mathhab is one of the most restricted Mathhabs in perceiving many actions as Kufr, to make up for the exclusion of actions from Iman.
They perceive the existing governments as legitimate and the rulers as sinning Muslims. However, unlike the first group, they see such systems as wrong and the rulers as sinners. They however, do not call for any uprising against them following the Hadiths that direct Muslims to follow their rulers as long as they are still Muslims. They call for improvements in the laws and constitution to follow more Islamic rulings.
They state that the ruler does not become a Kafir unless he pronounces Kufr explicitly, in accordance with their belief of Iman and that Kufr can only happen if the heart denies Allah SWT.
They do not object to following democracy and joining the democratic process and voting. However, some of their Fatwas show that they agree to the process from the point of view of bringing about interests of Muslims, not because they agree to the process from Aqeeda perspective.
They also follow the same point of view of Ahlul Sunnah in regards to Ijtihad and Taqleed. However, they are much more respectful to scholars who do not agree with their views. They rejected the ideas of Sayed Qutb (May Allah have mercy on his soul) but they did not accuse him of Kufr. They are more consistent than the first group. This is understandable as Al-Albani is far more respectful than the two small students of Elm: Al-Madhkali and Al-Jami.
Jihad for this group is theoretical rather than practical, and that it causes more harm than good. They actually label those who adopt Jihad (even against the invaders) as ‘Khawarij”

Third Group: The Academic Salafis السلفية العلمية :
Starting from this group onward, the Salafis are different than Ahlul Sunnah, as the view of Iman is different. The coming groups perceive Iman as known to Ahlul Sunnah over history; Intentions of the heart and explicit actions of the Muslim. The first of those are the so-called "Academic Salafis". This label might be attributed to the fact that they are more into writing and theorizing their beliefs than the other groups that have the same – or close – beliefs and applications.

Among the Leaders of this group:

Shaik Abdul Rahman Abdul Khaliq عبد الرحمن عبد الخالق
Abdul Razik Al-Shaygi عبد الرازق الشايجي
Hamed Al-Ali حامد العلي of Kuwait, and
Ansar Al-Sunnah movement of Egypt[19].

They are more organized and have a clearer vision of the political situation.
They still have a common view with the above groups about the rulers and governments. They perceive the rulers as Muslim sinners.
Their view of the problem of ruling with other than the Laws of Allah is that it is a sin not Kufr. They perceive ruling with other than Shariah is a minor Kufr.
They agree to the democratic process and to participation in the secular government based on the “public Interest” مصلحة.
They also stick to the point of Ijtihad and Taqleed where Fatwas are only permissible to those who are qualified.
They hold a lot of respect to Sayed Qutb although they might have differences with him in many points such as what was claimed to be his views on the Attributes of Allah SWT and the categorization of the society as Jahili مجتمع جاهلي.
Also they see Jihad as part of Islam, but they stand on the side of Jihad being theoretical and unnecessary

Fourth Group: The Conventional Shaiks of Salafiyah مشايخ السلفية :
This group are mostly shaiks of the official Saudi Arabia Islamic establishments, such as Shaik Bin Baz عبد العزيز بن باز and Shaik Al-Uthaymeen محمد بن العثيمين (May Allah have mercy on their souls) and those who adopt the same stand in other Muslims countries.

This group of Salafis hass clear understanding of Tawheed of Ibadah, and also in perceiving that ruling with other than Shariah or using secular laws is Kufr. There are many text of Bin Baz that reflects this opinion. Although many followers of the first, second or third group try to use some Mutashabih (not specific or clear) text of his Fatwas to attach him to their group. It is important to mention some criteria that has to be considered when reading the Fatwas of Bin Baz or Al-Uthaymeen:

They completely understood Tawheed Al-Ibadah as presented by Ibn Abdel Wahab and Ibn Taymiyah.

They consider those who rule with other than Shariah as Kuffar; the major Kufr that takes one out of Islam.
They sometimes used "statements" about the rulers that are typical statements used by ancient scholars like Al-Tahawi of the fifth century, or others. Those scholars used to talk about the Khalifas who committed injustices, but the constitution of the state was still adherent to Islam as the only source of laws.
They mostly had the Saudi model of government in mind when stating such quotes from old time scholars – without mentioning it of course – as they were always under the impression that the Saudi government is a sincere follower of the Quran and Sunnah, with a twist of sins here and there. Of course, the opponents of the Saudi system claim that this is not the truth, and that Bin Baz and Al-Uthaymeen were misled by the officials of the Saudi regime. They claim that although the Saudi constitution adheres to the Quran and Sunnah, the detailed laws of the kingdom follow the secular law model in many aspects of life. It is not the scope of this study to judge in such point as the author of this study is not a Saudi national or a Saudi Law expert. It is rather left to the Saudis themselves to rule on such points as said in the Arab saying: “People of Mecca know the way around it better”, which means that everyone knows his people better. We only state the different opinions that might affect the perception of Bin Baz and Uthaymeen.
They were clear in their opinions when it comes to other governments and they stated that just ruling with other than Shariah is a major Kufr. We have to put their statements together to understand their views correctly rather than pick and choose what substantiates a specific group’s views.
However, they never named any of the rulers as Kafir.
They still hold the same opinion of Ijtihad and Taqleed.
They do not agree with democracy as a system as it is not Islamic in principle. However, they did not oppose openly the participation of Muslims in any democratic process.
Also they see Jihad as part of Islam, but they stand on the side of Jihad being theoretical and unnecessary.

Fifth Group: The Salafi “Ikhwan” سلفيو الإخوان المسلمون :
Leaders of this group are some well known leaders of the “Ikhwan Al-Muslimoon” Muslim Brotherhood movement such as:

Isam Al-Basheer عصام البشير of Sudan,
Omar Al-Ashqar عمر الأشقر of Jordon,
Al-Shaik Abdel Majid Al-Zindani عبد المجيد الزنداني of Yemen.
They hold almost identical views of the previous group, but they are more open to the democratic process as being part of the Ikhwan movement. Ikhwan are sincere advocates of the participation in the democratic process although they could not show any merits to that dedication over the seventy five years of their existence in the Islamic arena!

Also they see Jihad as part of Islam, but they stand on the side of Jihad being theoretical and unnecessary.

Sixth Group: The Salafi Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a
سلفيو أهل السنة :
We labeled this group between Ahlul Sunnah and the Salafis as they have common features between the Salafis (in its contemporary capacity as a movement not as followers of Salaf) and Ahlul Sunnah, as pure adherents to the strict views of Ahlul Sunnah. Leaders of such groups vary widely and can have many disagreements on many subjects. However, we will categorize them here under one group for the purpose of this study as they appear to be closer together in the presented spectrum of the ‘Salafis” and “Ahlul Sunnah”. Amongst the leaders of this group:

Mohammad Sorour محمد سرور,
Salah As-Sawi صلاح الصاوي of Egypt,
Safar Al-Hawali and Salman Al-Uodah سفر الحوالي و سلمان العودة of Saudi Arabia and
Gamal Sultan of Egypt[20].

This group is the most active, for many reasons, in the Islamic arena. They mostly hold pure understanding of Tawheed.
They tend to theorize their views extensively and are good readers of the present situation.
Their concern is always international; Muslims' problems over the whole world not only in the Middle East.
However, their “announced” views of the governments and rulers are close to the views of the previous group of Salafi Ikhwan. They condemn the governments, but stop short of “declaring” the rulers as Kuffar openly. They clearly perceive that ruling with secular laws is major Kufr, but their “public” statements do not reflect any Takfeer statements to any ruler as a political stand, not as Aqeeda.
They all agree on participating in the political democratic process. However they vary in the degree of participation from Mohamad Sorour, who opposes it in reality where he sees no benefit in participating as it is completely in the hands of the tyrants, to Gamal Sultan who openly advocates it to the extent that he is – unsuccessfully- trying to establish a political party in Egypt.
They also adhere to the rules of Ijtihad and Taqleed.
They hold great respect and appreciation to Sayed Qutb and his work although they have some differences in few points of his work.
Also they see Jihad as part of Islam, but they stand on the side of Jihad being theoretical and unnecessary. They stop short of calling the Jihad advocates as Khawarij or condemn them openly.

Seventh Group: the Moderate Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'a الوسط أهل السنة :
This group is named Ahlul Sunnah as there is no common ground between them and the “Salafis” as is known in the contemporary term. They still follow sincerely the Salaf methodology and understanding and totally adhere to it. Among the surviving leaders of such group:

Mohammad Qutb and Abdel Majid Al-Shazlie of Egypt
محمد قطب و عبد المجيد الشاذلي,

Shaikh Gazi Al-Tuwbah of Kuwait غازي التوبة.

We can categorize other late scholars who have their opinions documented in their books and

Fatwas, and who are being pushed aside form the Islamic arena by the official Islamic figures to cover up the clear stand of those scholars that is in line with the views of this group. Amongst those:

Abu Al-’ala Al-Mawdudi of Pakistan أبو الأعلى المودوي,
Sayed Qutbسيد قطب [21] ,
the great Muhadith Ahmad Shaker المحدث الجليل أحمد شاكر of Egypt
Mahmoud Shaker العلامة محمود شاكر of Egypt,
The great Mufti of Saudi Arabia Imam Mohamad Ibrahim مفتي السعودية الجليل الشيخ محمد بن إبراهيم,
the great Scholar of Tafseer Shaikh Abdel Rahman Al-Dousary الشيخ العلامة المفسر عبد الرحمن الدوسري of Saudi Arabia.
Although some of these scholars did not openly state their opinions about the existing governments they were very clear and straightforward in condemning the governments who adopt any other laws and their stand against the early attempts to do that in Saudi Arabia was very loud; as in Shaikh Al-Dousary’s stand and lectures in Riyadh back in the 60’s and early 70’s.

This group acknowledges that the present governments are secular and therefore are out of Islam as systems.
They do not hesitate to call the heads and the major participants in the legislating process of the anti-Islamic secular laws as Kuffar. They show the evidence from Quran and Sunnah, Usool Al-Fiqh and Tafseer to that effect. They believe that such systems have to be removed and leave the way to Islamic governments. Democracy and democratic process that is controlled by the same systems will never do the job; they believe.
They perceive that ruling with secular laws as major Kufr and as violation of the first right of Allah SWT.
They call upon other groups to refute their evidence with Quran and Sunnah, but this refutation never happened yet! Other groups just call them names such as ‘khawarij”, “extremists”, and “Takferioon”! but with no Islamic intellectual reply to the presented evidence. It is always easy to name names, but the question persists: where is the response to the evidence?
They tend to write a lot in theorizing their views, with more in depth proofs even than the previous group, who tend to theorize with less hard core Islamic proofs and more on-the-surface analysis.
They are adamant about the Ijtihad and Taqleed, but they perceive scholars as those who hold and acquire the required knowledge and have established Islamic intellectual work rather than just a certificate from an official institute, where it is mostly controlled by those who favor characters that agree with their views.
They are not scared of calling a person who commits major Shirk with the label that Allah SWT gave to such person (give that it was proven that it is Kufr through crystal clear evidence of Shariah). They believe that the fear of using a legitimate description that was used in Quran and Sunnah, with all the necessary conditions applied, is a tactic that was promoted by some of the government advocate groups and government officials. This tactic was used to deter common Muslims العوام from realizing the real situation that the Muslim Ummah. The situation that the Ummah sank into by being ruled by secular non-Islamic laws, which are contrary to every single principle of being obedient to Allah SWT.
They strongly oppose participation in the democratic process, on both theoretical and practical basis. Not only is democracy un-Islamic in its nature, the whole participation in secular parliaments experiment has not proven any benefit to Muslims. It only casts legitimacy on the existing governments and misleads more and more common Muslims العوام. They recognize the damage in making common Muslims judge people as Kuffar, but they also know that this case is not a case of minor Kufr that is mentioned in Sunnah - such as the “Kufr “ of a women to her husband when she denies his bounty over her, or when two Muslims fight as in Hadith. This is a case of major Kufr and fundamental disobedience to Allah SWT and claiming part of the right of Allah SWT as an Illah إله; to legislate and to establish a parallel Shariah to control the lives of Muslims.
This group perceives Jihad as a true and viable alternative to the existing situation. However, Jihad has its conditions as any other Ibadah in Islam. It has to have all the circumstances in favor of it, and all the ways and means are taken for its advantage as this was the way that Sunnah has taught us when the Prophet PBUH was in Mecca. However, this does not call for other Mecca rules to apply, as each rule applies where and when and to whoever meets the criteria of such ruling. It also means to be ready and have Jihad in mind when planning for any future setup. This group calls for what can be known as the “Revival of the Ummah[22]” through spreading the correct understanding of Tawheed and the correct application of its rules.
Eighth Group: the Jihadis of Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jama'aالجهاديون من أهل السنة :
This group is the last of the spectrum of those who claim to follow the evidence of Quran and Sunnah as guidance to their rulings and fatwas. This group is represented by many known figures in the present time.

They agree with the understanding of the previous group on the theoretical level.
However, they believe that Jihad can not wait, and that the ruling of Jihad in this time is applicable. Removal of these systems must happen by force now, and not later through reviving the Ummah by methods of peaceful Dawa.
They also differ from the previous group in being less active in theorizing their own views.
Also they differ from the seventh group, and the other groups for that matter in some details such as the ruling of Islam in killing innocent civilians who are not combatants. This might be the impact of their stand and perception of the present situation.
The stand of this group also differs from the stand of group seven in Takfeer of individuals of the police and security forces, and army personnel of secular states on the land of Muslims. This group clearly applies Kufr of Wala'a to all individuals who belong to any security, police or army forces of these governments. Group seven, on the other hand does not go that far. They do not consider average individuals, who work for the police or the security or as soldiers in the army as Kuffar. They consider these individuals are ignorant of the situation, rather than of Tawheed. Ignorance of Manat (منا&#1591 is different from ignorance of Tawheed. Group seven claims that such individuals are largely misled. They follow the system and have faith in the leaders. It would be a mistake, according to group seven, to consider the soldier or the officer, a kafir, even if they fight Muslims. It is evident from Quran and Sunnah that just fighting between Muslims does not constitute major Kufr of either party. However, the two groups agree on the ruling of those who actually legislate and enforce secular rules on both the public and the servants of the government.
The first and second groups, as well as some individuals belonging to other groups in general, call this group “Khawarij”, although this group has never made takfeer of any Muslim sinner, except what we mentioned above, which is to a large extent a Manat mistake on their part as well, but they do not make takfeer for those who drink, commit adultery or any other clear and obvious consented upon sin. They have wrong Ijtihad when it comes to Jihad tactics, but the description of Khawarij does not fit their Aqeeda profile.

Conclusion

It is essential to understand that:

Although some of the above described groups call for abandoning Taqleed specially in Fiqh area, they promote Taqleed in Usool Al-Deen or Tawheed! This is a reverse to the Salaf or Ahlul Sunnah stand. It is basic knowledge that there is no Taqleed when it comes to Tawheed. One should not say: "I believe that this is what Tawheed means as shaik "whoever" has told me so, and I am not capable of understanding it on my own! This is an absurd statement in that context. It is true when it comes to Fiqh where knowledge of principles of Hadith and Tafseer, areas of Ijma'a, previous Fatwas of scholars, Usool Al-Fiqh and many other sciences are required to pass a Fatwa. But, Tawheed, the origin of Deen, it is unacceptable to make Taqleed to any one. Allah SWT said in Quran:
وَإِذْ أَخَذَ رَبُّكَ مِن بَنِي آدَمَ مِن ظُهُورِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمْ وَأَشْهَدَهُمْ عَلَى أَنفُسِهِمْ أَلَسْتَ بِرَبِّكُمْ قَالُواْ بَلَى شَهِدْنَا أَن تَقُولُواْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ إِنَّا كُنَّا عَنْ هَذَا غَافِلِينَ ، أَوْ تَقُولُواْ إِنَّمَا أَشْرَكَ آبَاؤُنَا مِن قَبْلُ وَكُنَّا ذُرِّيَّةً مِّن بَعْدِهِمْ أَفَتُهْلِكُنَا بِمَا فَعَلَ الْمُبْطِلُونَ

"When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their loins, their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?" They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful., Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?" (Al-A'araf 172).

In these verses, Allah SWT has decreed that Taqleed of the parents, teachers, environment or any other external factors, or Jahl (ignorance[23]) is not acceptable in the matters of Islam and Kufr; i.e. Tawheed.

Sharpen your minds, and jump start it to see for yourselves what Tawheed is and what limitations it might have. Maybe you can not study for yourself, but you better listen to all the proofs you can get from others as you might be missing an important component of your Tawheed. Never turn away from anyone who explains Tawheed for you except if he/she belongs to an innovative sect like Sufism.
Be encouraged to seek knowledge especially in the area of Tawheed and principles of Deen. It is the only way to know that you will stand before Allah SWT on the Day of Judgement with the right word "La Illah Illa Allah" with all what it means and not to miss any part of it.
May Allah SWT help all of us to gain the necessary knowledge to save ourselves in that day when nothing will help but our deeds, and His mercy.

Footnotes
[1] I intended to write this article sometime ago. However, it was partially assisted in some of its aspects by an article, which I came across recently, that was published in Arabic from a lecture in Oxford University of the UK.

[2] We use the term "Ahlul Sunnah" here to distinguish between them and the Shiites and the other theorists of the 72 innovation sects. However the term will be closely explained later in a different capacity.

[3] The word "Qarni" in Arabic, which literally means "my century" is translated here as "generation" as this is the meaning in which the word is used in that context. This meaning is within the capacity of the word.

[4] The Hadith is reported by Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Al-Termizie, Ibn Majah and Ahmad.

[5] Secularism is the "worldly" vision of the universe. It is defined in the English dictionaries as "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations". However, it was translated at the end of the 19th century to the Arabic language to "Scientific" علمانية! Just to make it more acceptable to the common ignorant Muslims.

[6] It is beyond the scope of this study to cover this point or to reach a verdict in such matter.

[7] Those who follow the Salaf.

[8] They were students of Al-Albani.

[9] I use "movement" here to point out a group rather than a "movement" which requires more organization and disciplined followers, and that normally has a political agenda attached to its academic approach.

[10] Ahlul Raie أهل الرأي in the Islamic thought are those who used Qiyas "logical deduction" widely as opposed to Ahlul Hadith أهل الحديث who relied more on Hadith, and accepted Hadith as a higher evidence than Qiyas even if it is categorized as Weak ضعيف. However, Ahlul Raie term in the contemporary schools of thought, are those who do not follow the evidence of Shariah in general, but they just lay down their own opinions based on either ignorance or secular perspectives.

[11] Reported by Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Al-Nesaie, Al-Termizie, Abu Dawoud and Ahmad

[12] Ijtihad: is making the necessary effort combined with acquiring the proper knowledge to arrive at a Fatwa. Taqleed is following a Mufti blindly without questioning as a result of lack of the proper knowledge.

[13] A message was posted by a person with a name in the format of {Abu-xxx Al-xxxx). This is a typical name format that's been fashionable since mid-80's, when the young generation who followed those leaders of group 1 & 2 started to adopt such name formats to feel like they belong to the “Salaf”. Unfortunately, the name format was the end of it! They acquired nothing more of the Salaf. It is why we are now dealing with a generation that's completely superficial in dealing with Aqeeda issues, and in following those who claim to follow the “Salaf”. Poor Salaf! How many deviances are now being committed under their name!

The content of the message is expectedly insulting and bashing! Typical of what to be expected from a follower/admirer of Al-Madkhali. The message in itself is proof of the strength and truthfulness of my analysis.

There is no need to respond to the content of the message as it is naïve and simple. A funny part of that is when this person stated that I published the article with the hope that it will go unnoticed!! I posted the article on the WORLD WIDE WEB, hoping that it will be unnoticed!!!! This is again comic. However, it is important to mention that it is typical of the followers of a person who insulted and used terrible phrases describing Du’aat like Abdul Rahman Abdul Khaliq and Sayed Qutb. Al-Madkhali, as mentioned by the scholar Shaikh Bakr Abu Zaid in his message to him (see the Arabic text at the end of the footnote) has cultivated a generation of “Ruwaibidat” رويبضات as in the Hadith, which means “a trivial person who speaks in the matters of the public”. Shaikh Bakr Abu Zaid, Shaikh Al-Shaigi, Shaikh Abdul Khaliq and Shaikh Al-Qahtani have all replied to Al-Madhkali, the teacher and mentor of the likes of Al-Halabi and Murad Shoukry, and showed how far-off the Sunnah he is. The man, and of course his followers with the name format Abu-xxxx Al-xxxx, are all about making Takfeer of those who do not agree with their stand on the subject of Hukm and its relevance to Tawheed Al-Ibadah. They cherish the existing governments and consider the rulers their “Amir Al-Momineen”! In the same time they attack, bash and snitch on the Du’aat who call for the Laws of Allah to be obeyed and followed! If this is not the Khawarij stand, we don’t really know who Khawarij are.

It is a sorrow that such effort of a whole generation of young Muslims is wasted on cherishing those who disobey Allah SWT, and attack and call the Du’aat Kuffar. They use the word ‘Terrorists’ to describe the Du’aat more than the Americans do!!! What a petty.

These are some of the points that Shiakh Bakr Abu Zaid made to Al-Madkhali:

- نظرت في أول صفحة من فهرس الموضوعات فوجدتها عناوين قد جمعت في سيد قطب رحمه الله، أصول الكفر والإلحاد والزندقة، القول بوحدة الوجود، القول بخلق القرآن، يجوز لغير الله أن يشرع، غلوه في تعظيم صفات الله تعالى، لا يقبل الأحاديث المتواترة، يشكك في أمور العقيدة التي يجب الجزم بها، يكفر المجتمعات ..إلى أخر تلك العناوين التي تقشعر منها جلود المؤمنين.. وأسفت على أحوال علماء المسلمين في الأقطار الذين لم ينبهوا على هذه الموبقات.. وكيف الجمع بين هذا وبين انتشار كتبه في الآفاق انتشار الشمس، وعامتهم يستفيدون منها، حتى أنت في بعض ما كتبت، عند هذا أخذت بالمطابقة بين العنوان والموضوع، فوجدت الخبر يكذبه الخبر، ونهايتها بالجملة عناوين استفزازية تجذب القارئ العادي، إلى الوقيعة في سيد رحمه الله، وإني أكره لي ولكم ولكل مسلم مواطن الإثم والجناح، وإن من الغبن الفاحش إهداء الإنسان حسناته إلى من يعتقد بغضه وعداوته

- نظرت فوجدت هذا الكتاب يـفـتـقـد:
أصـول البحث العلمي، الحيـدة العلمية، منهـج النقد، أمانـة النقل والعلم، عـدم هضم الحق أما أدب الحوار وسمو الأسلوب ورصانة العرض فلا تمت إلى الكتاب بهاجس.. وإليك الدليل…(ساق الدليل بالتفصي&#1604

- أقول أيها المحب الحبيب، لقد نسفت بلا تثبت جميع ما قرره سيد رحمه الله تعالى من معالم التوحيد ومقتضياته، ولوازمه التي تحتل السمة البارزة في حياته الطويلة فجميع ما ذكرته يلغيه كلمة واحدة، وهي أن توحيد الله في الحكم والتشريع من مقتضيات كلمة التوحيد، وسيد رحمه الله تعالى ركز على هذا كثيرًا لما رأى من هذه الجرأة الفاجرة على إلغاء تحكيم شرع الله من القضاء وغيره وحلال القوانين الوضعية بدلاً عنها ولا شك أن هذه جرأة عظيمة ما عاهدتها الأمة الإسلامية في مشوارها الطويل قبل عام (1342هـ ).

- ومن جهات أخرى أبدي ما يلي:

1 - مسودة هذا الكتاب تقع في 161 صفحة بقلم اليد، وهي خطوط مختلفة، ولا أعرف منه صفحة واحدة بقلمكم حسب المعتاد، إلا أن يكون اختلف خطكم، أو اختلط علي، أم أنه عُهد بكتب سيد قطب رحمه الله لعدد من الطلاب فاستخرج كل طالب ما بدا له تحت إشرافكم، أو بإملائكم. لهذا فلا أتحقق من نسبته إليكم إلا ما كتبته على طرته أنه من تأليفكم، وهذا عندي كاف في التوثيق بالنسبة لشخصكم الكريم.

2 - مع اختلاف الخطوط إلا أن الكتاب من أوله إلى أخره يجري على وتيرة واحدة وهي: أنه بنفس متوترة وتهيج مستمر، ووثبة تضغط على النص حتى يتولد منه الأخطاء الكبار، وتجعل محل الاحتمال ومشتبه الكلام محل قطع لا يقبل الجدال…وهذا نكث لمنهج النقد: الحيدة العلمية .

3 - من حيث الصيغة إذا كان قارنًا بينه وبين أسلوب سيد رحمه الله، فهو في نزول، سيد قد سَمَا، وإن اعتبرناه من جانبكم الكريم فهو أسلوب "إعدادي" لا يناسب إبرازه من طالب علم حاز على العالمية العالية، لا بد من تكافؤ القدرات في الذوق الأدبي، والقدرة على البلاغة والبيان، وحسن العرض، وإلا فليكسر القلم.

4 - لقد طغى أسلوب التهيج والفزع على المنهج العلمي النقدي…. ولهذا افتقد الرد أدب الحوار.

5 - في الكتاب من أوله إلى آخره تهجم وضيق عطن وتشنج في العبارات فلماذا هذا…؟

6 - هذا الكتاب ينشط الحزبية الجديدة التي أنشئت في نفوس الشبيبة جنوح الفكر بالتحريم تارة، والنقض تارة وأن هذا بدعة وذاك مبتدع، وهذا ضلال وذاك ضال.. ولا بينة كافية للإثبات، وولدت غرور التدين والاستعلاء حتى كأنما الواحد عند فعلته هذه يلقي حملاً عن ظهره قد استراح من عناء حمله، وأنه يأخذ بحجز الأمة عن الهاوية، وأنه في اعتبار الآخرين قد حلق في الورع والغيرة على حرمات الشرع المطهر، وهذا من غير تحقيق هو في الحقيقة هدم، وإن اعتبر بناء عالي الشرفات، فهو إلى التساقط، ثم التبرد في أدراج الرياح العاتية .

هذه سمات ست تمتع بها هذا الكتاب فآل غـيـر مـمـتـع، هذا ما بدا إلي حسب رغبتكم، وأعتذر عن تأخر الجواب، لأنني من قبل ليس لي عناية بقراءة كتب هذا الرجل وإن تداولها الناس، لكن هول ما ذكرتم دفعني إلى قراءات متعددة في عامة كتبه، فوجدت في كتبه خيرًا كثيرًا وإيمانًا مشرفًا وحقًا أبلج، وتشريحًا فاضحًا لمخططات العداء للإسلام، على عثرات في سياقاته واسترسال بعبرات ليته لم يفه بها، وكثير منها ينقضها قوله الحق في مكان أخر والكمال عزيز، والرجل كان أديبًا نقادة، ثم اتجه إلى خدمة الإسلام من خلال القرآن العظيم والسنة المشرفة، والسيرة النبوية العطرة، فكان ما كان من مواقف في قضايا عصره، وأصر على موقفه في سبيل الله تعالى، وكشف عن سالفته، وطلب منه أن يسطر بقلمه كلمات اعتذار وقال كلمته الإيمانية المشهورة، إن أصبعًا أرفعه للشهادة لن أكتب به كلمة تضارها... أو كلمة نحو ذلك، فالواجب على الجميع … الدعاء له بالمغفرة … والاستفادة من علمه

This proves to any person who has an ounce of intelligence where Al-Madkhali stands in the hierarchy of scholars, and where his students stand.

[14] It is rather sad that these people hold conferences and attract young common Muslims, with little or no knowledge by inviting the “shaik-like” figures from the Middle East, and present a methodology to them that makes their brains frozen and become completely dependant on this groups' “scholars”. The result is an army of submissive youths who follow blindly their Murji'ah leaders without knowing it.

[15] The sadder is that (they) go even deeper in this stand to call King Fahd of Saudi Arabia “Amir Al-Momeneen”! a title that he himself did not claim!!!

[16] They are actually Murji'ah as they not only delusional by the doubts of Irja'a, but they have gone too far in applying the Irja'a principle of separating Iman from actions ((فصل الإيمان عن العمل.

[17] Among the Canadian groups that belong to this group is Troid of the UK/Ontario. They are a group of mostly coverts with little or no knowledge and are brain washed by the principles of this first group.

[18'] As expected, I received some angry reactions and e-mails when I categorized Shaikh Al-Albani (may Allah have mercy on his soul) in a group that “is infected by the virus of Irja'a", as I put it. It is necessary to clarify the following:

I do not judge Shaikh Al-Albani, as this is now the jurisdiction of Allah SWT, since he is now between the hands of Allah SWT, and Allah SWT is the best judge of all. I hold all respect and love in the cause of Allah to Al-Albani, and know that he served this Ummah a lot with his vast knowledge and accurate research in Hadith.
I am stating facts that appear to me and to those who read the works of Al-Albani, and others as they expressed it. The reason for that is to warn the youth of whatever deviation from the way of Ahlul Sunnah exist, no matter who said it (contrary to what the Madkhali group do). The Truth is beloved to us than any man on earth, as it belongs to Allah SWT.
I translated the Arabic text “دخلت عليهم الشبه التي دخلت على المرجئة” as “infected by the virus of Irja'a”. It might not be the best translation, but it holds the same meaning. I am changing it in this new version to the exact translation as “has been delusional by some of the doubts that Murji'ah has”.
Having said so, and changed the translation, it is not the first time that respected scholars have been referred to as such. As a matter of fact, Imam Abu Hanifah (who's without a doubt of higher rank than Imam Al-Albani) has been referred to, by many of Ahlul Sunnah scholars including Ibn Taymiyah, as “having been delusional by some of the doubts that Murji'ah have”, because of his, and subsequently the Hanafis, opinion of Iman. This did not take away any respect or love of Imam Abu Hanifah. It only proves that no man is higher than the truth, period.
We wish any of the critics of this article to refrain from personal attacks and refute the content rather than sticking to mere insults to some or mere respect to others. It is best for all to show that a person does not carry a wrong view in Aqeeda matters by the merit of what he actually wrote, rather than just raising an eye brow and making a useless comment about how great the scholar is and how bad of a person to criticize him. Such people are raised in an environment where you agree unequivocally and completely with a scholar, or totally drop him, destroy his credentials all together and add his name to an ironic list of “Majrouh people” or people with bad connotations! Such people have to understand that this is not the way of Ahlul Sunnah. Scholars are still humans. They make mistakes. However, their mistakes do not make them less of scholars or deserve less respect. Only, to be cautious about the point of weakness and benefit from the good.
[18] Al-Albani's views in that regard were refuted in many books and are opposed to the general consensus of Ahlul Sunnah in perceiving Iman as saying, believing and acting.

[19] It is important to differentiate between the shaiks who belong to Ansar Al-Sunnah of Egypt. For instance, Hamed Al-Fiqi or Abdul Rahman Afifi can not be categorized with the like of Mohamad Al-Bana.

[20] The writer of this article has known these respected figures personally for the last three decades and have worked with them in many joint Islamic projects and intellectual products such as books and magazines. The view presented here is as close as it can get to the opinions of these respected shaiks.

[21] There might be a question mark on Sayed Qutb in terms of what he was accused of in regards to the Attributes of Allah SWT, so someone can claim that he is not Ahlul Sunnah in that regard. My reply would be that first of all, this study is about the stand of the scholars in regards to specific rulings, and secondly, many studies were conducted to clear Sayed Qutb’s name from such accusations, and Allah SWT knows best.

[22] A term that has always been used by shaik Abdel Majid Al-Shazly of Egypt.

[23] The subject of Jahl (ignorance) in Shariah is a very delicate matter and has a lot of inferences and applications. This article's author published a book on that subject that was published by the committee of Fatawa of Saudi Arabia 1992 under the title of "The Useful Answer to the problem of those who are ignorant of Tawheed".

Danish Al hyderabaadee

29-11-2005, 05:20 AM

Arent these guys salafiees too

http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/index.html

Iqbal Muhammad Raakin

30-04-2006, 01:38 PM

Assalamu 'Alaikum.

Has anyone heard of the scholar Muhammad al-Sharif? If you have can you please tell me if he is legitimate i.e. a sunni with sound aqida and follows one of the sunni schools of thought in fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i or Hanbali). What are his opinion on Tasawwuf?

Jazakkalu khair.

Wassalam.

Hamzah

30-04-2006, 04:28 PM

:salam:

He's a great speaker and can talk about many stories of the Prophet :saw: in good detail. Great for the youth.

From what I understand he follows the Shafi school of thought. Apparently that is the official school of thought at AlMaghrib... so says an AlMaghrib student.

At the same time one has to know that he isn't really a traditional scholar. He's really against the whole labels stuff (Don't talk about Salafi and Sufi... we're all Muslim blah blah blah) so whenever people question him about whether he's Salafi or Sufi he does that whole label speel.

However if one looks at AlMaghrib, the institute that he founded ... one does not have to look too hard to find that is has massive Salafi undertones.

As for Tasawwuf itself, I haven't been to any of his classes so I don't know for sure but judging by what his endorsed co-teachers say (Yasir Qadhi) ... they don't seem too favourable. I can't imagine a traditional scholar actually saying the Qasida Burda has shirk in it.

To end off on a positive note, he is very in touch with the youth here and I think he's really developed a niche for Muslim youth here in the West ... something that was missing before. To get the average Muslim that didn't care about Islam whatsoever in the first place to eventually start marketing the class itself to his/her friends is an ingenius idea. It takes a lot of work and brains to do that and I applaud Sh.Muhammad Al-Shareef on his efforts for that. I just wish Traditional organizations can make some viable traditional alternative rather than to keep bashing AlMaghrib. We DEFINITELY have the resources... we just need to start pooling our resources together folks.

And that's my two cents. Or eighteen.

Noor ul Islam

30-04-2006, 05:42 PM

aslan

30-04-2006, 06:04 PM

AssalaamuAlaikum
I wonder that why doesnt the people get worried about the fact that Salfis are attracting the youth to their unconventional ideas. Those people who are linked with dawah are well-acquainted with the fact that it is easy to teach people who are ignorant but it is very difficult to correct wrong concepts and ideas. It is true that AlMaghrib is attracting youth towards themselves(like Al-Huda in Pakistan) but are they attracting them towards the real Islamic spirit. This is the basic question. The Khawarjis were the most practising muslims of their time but what was wrong. Their Aqeeda was not in accordance with the Islamic concepts taught by our ProphetSAW and propogated by the Khulfa-e-Rashdeen.
Please you should not forget the fact that Aqeeda is the basis of our actions. Any good deed of a Kaafir is rejected just becaus he doesnot have Imaan in hs heart. How can we be happy about the fact that the youth are being attracted twards Al-Maghrib. Do you really believe that this is the message that our Prophet was sent with if you seriously believe it is then it is a matter of rejoicing but if it is not then it is the quality that counts not the quantity.Wassalaam
Ah sister, what true words they are!!!
I agree 100%!!!
I have some friends, they're wahabi/"salafi"... and the other day, they were saying and quoting people like uthmayun and albaani and saying that Allah Taa'la has hands, eyes, feet, body, organs, is PHYSICALLY sitting on a chair/throne, is in the heavens etc... ASTAGHFIRULLAH. I was telling them not to say that since it means saying that Allah Taa'la has limits and that is kufr but they weren't listening!!!
And instead, they said that i'm kafir for not accepting their ideas!!!
I think something should seriously be done about this!!!
Firstly, we should teach the youth the basics of Aqeedah such as Aqeedatul Tahawiyya and Al'Fiqh Al'Akbar etc which STRAIGHTLY deny that Allah Taa'la has parts, body etc... this is very useful for the youth to know since the basics of the Islamic Aqeedah are being challenged and we MUST do something.
I mean, people like Sheikh Hisham, Sheikh Haddad, Sunnipath etc MashAllah are doing a good job in refuting the wahabis, but i think more should be done from OTHER scholars as well!!!

Goldi

30-04-2006, 06:39 PM

He went to madrassa corwall with our very own maulana eat-halal. perhaps he can shed some light on this?

Hamood

30-04-2006, 07:50 PM

Not sure but you can probably search on this forum on a similar discussion before and Maulana eat-halal did comment there. Oh and there seems to be another Muhammad Al-Sharif (al-shareef? alshareef?) .. so the first post might be in regards to the other one.

Ajami

30-04-2006, 08:26 PM

To end off on a positive note, he is very in touch with the youth here and I think he's really developed a niche for Muslim youth here in the West ... something that was missing before. To get the average Muslim that didn't care about Islam whatsoever in the first place to eventually start marketing the class itself to his/her friends is an ingenius idea. It takes a lot of work and brains to do that and I applaud Sh.Muhammad Al-Shareef on his efforts for that. I just wish Traditional organizations can make some viable traditional alternative rather than to keep bashing AlMaghrib. We DEFINITELY have the resources... we just need to start pooling our resources together folks.

I don't think many people have heard of him before (atleast not chicago). But aside from that, I agree :thumbsup:.

thetruth

30-04-2006, 08:41 PM

Ah sister, what true words they are!!!
I agree 100%!!!
I have some friends, they're wahabi/"salafi"... and the other day, they were saying and quoting people like uthmayun and albaani and saying that Allah Taa'la has hands, eyes, feet, body, organs, is PHYSICALLY sitting on a chair/throne, is in the heavens etc... ASTAGHFIRULLAH. I was telling them not to say that since it means saying that Allah Taa'la has limits and that is kufr but they weren't listening!!!
And instead, they said that i'm kafir for not accepting their ideas!!!
I think something should seriously be done about this!!!Firstly, we should teach the youth the basics of Aqeedah such as Aqeedatul Tahawiyya and Al'Fiqh Al'Akbar etc which STRAIGHTLY deny that Allah Taa'la has parts, body etc... this is very useful for the youth to know since the basics of the Islamic Aqeedah are being challenged and we MUST do something.
I mean, people like Sheikh Hisham, Sheikh Haddad, Sunnipath etc MashAllah are doing a good job in refuting the wahabis, but i think more should be done from OTHER scholars as well!!!

:salam:

Broter Aslan, I mean no disrespect to you, but I do honestly hope for you to keep your emotional rhetoric on lock at times, Insh’Allah. I didn’t want to post about this, but I believe even the mods have edited or deleted some your previous posts due to their content. Many of your posts are outright attacks on the Salafis/Wahhabis as if they're Satan's incarnate in human form. Aouzobillah. Now I understand your disdain for their teachings, as I am not an all too big fan of it as well. But we should try to portray our views with the Akhlaq that our beloved Prophet (saw) has taught us. Have you not ever heard the expression, an eye for an eye makes the world blind? So, by you freely doing what they’re doing will not resolve anything, but build more hatred in your heart.

Also, why on earth would you and your friends be discussing such matters anyhow? I don't recall me ever having such dialogue with any of friends, regardless of their affiliations. And even if my Salafi/Wahhabi friends mentioned such Shayouk and their quotes, they would not outright resemble Allah to creation, so I find your statements rather biased in a sense. Perhaps, other than discussing these matters, you should try to focus on broader subjects that are more vital right now, but whilst propagating the proper Aqeedah in an understanding manner. Please do not take this as a jab.

AllahuAlim

Wasalam

Iqbal Muhammad Raakin

30-04-2006, 10:07 PM

Jazakallahu khair for your information brothers and sisters.

And I know what you mean about having conversations with salafis. I mean I just come home all depressed. You still have to stay with them for the sake of the community. I mean some people must keep Islam going with in the community. Alhamdulillah. The salafis I hang around with are not that bad. They are pretty watered down. They don't get involved in much debates. I know, strange right?

Wassalam.

Abdul Sattar

12-05-2006, 05:57 AM

Assalamu 'Alaikum,

Though I understand that some of us may have serious disagreements with
1. Br. Muhammad al-Shariff
2. Salafism
3. Wahabism
4. Al-Maghrib Institute
5. Eman Rush
6. Anything else we can think of that's related to 1-5;

I still cannot understand why we have dedicated an entire post to discussing it. Let us rather remind ourselves that

1. Every word that we type on this forum shall be brought before us on the Day of Judgement (even if the mods delete our posts)

2. Is the time we are spending on this forum, discussing these issues time that is bringing our hearts closer to Allah? Or is it simply time that is creating rancor and seperation between the hearts of the believers?

3. We are having this discussion without the fulltime presence of a qualified scholar even though the discussion points fall into:
3a. Usul ul Fiqh
3b. Aqeedah

These issues were discussed behind the closed doors of the scholars, and we, being the pathetic excuses for students of knowledge that we are, wish to have entire posts dedicated to discussing these issues and asking each other what we think of scholar x or y?

3c. There are thousands of our muslim brothers who are out there not even aware of who our Prophet (saw) was; smokin pot, defiling and being defiled; in our own high schools and universities; is it not better that we discuss how we can reach out to them as brothers and sisters, and leave this debate to the realm of the scholars?

4. Is it not better that we all turn off the electronic devices on our desks and perhaps open the Book of Allah and RECITE, instead of argue about this group, or that group, or this sheikh or that sheikh?

Just a thought.

Forgive me for any mistakes.
And Allah knows best.
wa 'alaikum assalam
a.s.