Bid'a

[ahsanirfan]

Salam o alaikum,

I read the two different definitions of bid'a. One is from Mufti Mohammad bin Adam al Kawthari, and can be found here http://www.daruliftaa.com/questions.asp?intPage=1&strNavDir=next&txt_CategoryID=CAT0000001#

The other is from Sheikh Nuh Keller and can be found here
http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00000478.aspx

I find both definitions fundamentally contradictory. Mufti Mohammad's definition clearly states that anything not done before the time of the Salaf ended, is a bid'a, religiously speaking. This would most definitively put the Mawlid as a bid'a. While Sheikh Nuh's definition implies that that which is not contradictory to the Sunna, is not a bid'a, which would categorically put the Mawlid out of the scope of bid'a.

Which definition is correct? If we take Sheikh Nuh's answer then where do we draw the line for bid'a? Also if Sheikh Nuh's answer is correct, then the Hadith 'Kullu bid'a dalalah' would be reduced in its importance wouldn't it? I mean, we could go on adding things in our religion as long as it did not contradict the Sunna, and keep disregarding the hadith.

No disrespect meant to any of the Sheikhs mentioned. It's just that having lived with Salafi's for so long, I find it quite 'pleasantly' surprising, that there can be vast differences of opinion and still no qualms over it :)

Jazak Allahi Khair for your time.

Ma'as Salam

[3Abdullah]

3:101. And how would you disbelieve, while unto you are recited the verses of Allah, and among you is His Messenger And whoever depends upon Allah, then he is indeed guided to the right path.

So only those don't disbelieve who stick to Quran and Sunnah.
One can depend upon Allah only when he sticks to Quran and Sunnah and that is the right path.

3:102. O you who believe! Have Taqwa of Allah as is His due, and die not except as (true) Muslims.

3:103. And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah's favor on you, for you were enemies of one another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His grace, you became brethren, and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes His Ayat clear to you, that you may be guided.

Today, Deobandis, Barelvis, Salafis and Non-Salafis are enemies of one another, issuing Fatwas of Takfeer for each other, because their hearts have been parted, they don't live with brotherhood, Allah knows where they are...

The Quran is clear to us, for our guidance and THE ONLY THING WHICH CAN UNITE THIS UMMAH AGAIN, IS QURAN, QURAN AND QURAN ONLY...

But the joke is that you talk about Quran, you will be given a title of 'Munkir-e-Hadith' or Quranist, though no Muslim can deny Hadith / Sunnah.
And their are more than this title..
Like a brother in this forum has termed a scholar (whose books I have read) as Pervezi, I don't know if that scholar even knew who Pervezis are..
Another very popular title in Indo-Pak is Wahabi.
You talk about Quran and (Sahih) Sunnah and you automatically become a Wahabi..

And you can't become a Muslim unless you believe in Ali's Imamat and Wilayat and Auliya's Kiramat (miracles).

But the Creator is Clearly annoucing that the only thing which can unite us is This Book of Allah, which people recite in 'Quran Khanis' so that they can be presented 'Halwas and Jalebis and other Sweets'.

Now Bid'ah is everything, not in Quran, not practised by our Holy Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam.

Salaat and Salaam added to Adhan is Bid'ah.
Kissing fingers when hearing the name of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhi wasallam is Bid'ah.
Quran Khanis celebrated in order to gain reward is Bid'ah.
Meelad Shareef is never Shareef but a Bid'ah.
Celebrating Urs of 'Auliya' is Bid'ah.
Spreading sheets and flowers over graves or shrines is Bid'ah.

Whatever is being practised by Non-Arab Muslims which is not the Sunnah of Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam, and which is crime in according to the laws of Allah, and these so-called scholars should be killed who invent these Bid'aat as they dare to change Deen of Allah and play with Quran and Sunnah.

This is why I say that for centuries our Scholars have been compromising over this Satanic Movement run by so-called scholars and Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jama'ah is blindly following Scholars and not blindly following Quran.
This is why Deobanid follow their scholars.
Barelvis follow their scholars.
(sorry I don't know much about Ahl-al-Hadith and Salafis, as I have experienced these two groups only)
And I must say that these are the Scholars who have divided this Ummah, every scholar has become an Imam and every group is claiming to follow the Right Path.

It's shame that Muslims have left Quran, the Ultimate Imam.

[ahsanirfan]

Jazak Allahi Khair for your views. However my question remains unanswered and I would request others, those who follow their scholars, to please answer my concern.

Jazak Allahi Khair

[Muawiyah]

Yes you have to believe in the possibility of karaamaat ul awliyaa to be a muslim. Allah Ta`ala has said in the Quraan:



كُلَّمَا دَخَلَ عَلَيْهَا زَكَرِيَّا الْمِحْرَابَ وَجَدَ عِندَهَا رِزْقاً قَالَ يَا مَرْيَمُ أَنَّى لَكِ هَـذَا قَالَتْ هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللّهِ إنَّ اللّهَ يَرْزُقُ مَن يَشَاءُ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ


Whenever Zakariyya entered the niche where {Maryam radhi Allaahu `anha} prayed, he would find fruit there [i.e., the summer fruits during the winter and vice versa]. He asked her how she got it. She replied that this was Allah’s endowment. Allah gives whomever He willed without restriction.

soorah aal imraan 37

And He has said:



قَالَ الَّذِي عِندَهُ عِلْمٌ مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ أَنَا آتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ فَلَمَّا رَآهُ مُسْتَقِرّاً عِندَهُ قَالَ هَذَا مِن فَضْلِ رَبِّي لِيَبْلُوَنِي أَأَشْكُرُ أَمْ أَكْفُرُ وَمَن شَكَرَ فَإِنَّمَا يَشْكُرُ لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ رَبِّي غَنِيٌّ كَرِيمٌ


Said one who had knowledge of the Book: "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!" Then when (Sulayman `alyhissalaam) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !" {surat un-Naml ayah 40}

Rasoolullah Sallalaahu `alyhi wa Sallam has informed us of numerous karamaat of awliyaa, for example the story of Jurayj {rahimahullah}, who was accused of being the father of an illegitimate child, He asked the baby in its cradle who its father was and Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala caused that child to speak out that its father was a certain cowherd. This hadeeth is recorded in both Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Rasoolullah Sallallaahu `alyhi wa Sallam has told us of the three people who were trapped in a cave and they made Du`a to Allah Ta`ala by the tawassul of their good deeds and Allah Ta`ala caused the rock at the mouth of their cave to move away at each du`a

In the hadeeth of the As-haab al-ulkhdud Rasoolullah Sallallaahu `alyhi wa Sallam has told us of the the boy by whose du`a the born blind and the lepers and all sick people would be cured if they declared faith in Allah suhanahu wa Ta`ala. The mushrik king arrested him and tried to have him thrown from a mountain but Allah Ta'ala caused the mountain to shake and the all the courtiers who tried to throw him fell down dead. Then the King tried to have him drowned but the boat capsized and everyone drowned, except for the boy.

He sallalaahu `alyhi wa Sallam has informed us the the mu'mineen who will fight along with Eesaa `alyhissalaam will live without food on Zikrullah.

Similarly there are numerous mukashifaat and karamaat of the sahabah especially of Umar Radhi Allaahu `anhu regarding whom Rasoolullah Sallalaahu `alyhi wa Sallam said: "In the previous umam there used to be muhaddathun {people who were inspired with ilhaam by Allah} who were not ambiyaa and if there any such person in my Ummah, it is `Umar" {Sahih Bukhari}

[faqir]

Have you read this article Akhi?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1666

['Abd al-Mustafa]

Brother assalamu 'alaikum

My dear brother,

I would advise you to follow Sheikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller hafaza allah on this,

he is a sheikh of Tasawwuf and a sheikh of shari'ah hand in hand,

Allah bless him, and make him our intercessor to Almighty subhana

Allah bless this Ummah with more Shuyukh like him for us to pass over this difficult period

your brother in Islam

'Abd al-Mustafa

[ahsanirfan]

Salam o alaikum

Jazak Allahi Khair for the article brother Mossy, very nice indeed. It did clear up some things. Specifically, it sort of reconciled the two articles I had referred to.

However, I still have certain confusion. Forgive me for being so impertinent. But the thing is that things like Mawlid and Urs still bother me. I mean, Mawlid is regarded as a Mandub innovation by the majority of the scholars, while the Deobandi scholars, most of them at least, make it seem as though the opposite is what is true. I know of Haji Imadullah Makki (and old old Deobandi scholar) who was fond of Mawlid, and now Mufti Muhammad. Other than that every Deobandi scholar tells me that Mawlid is Bid'a and they cast it aside. The most cited reason given is that it did not exist at the time of the Prophet. Among other reasons cited is the fixing of dates, the intermingling of sexes etc. If the Deobandis are on the truth, then why is there an ijma' on Mawlid elsewhere in the Muslim world. If the others are on the truth, then why don't Deobandis accept this as a difference of opinion, and why do they label those that perform the Mawlid as Bidatis? Here I refer to Mufti Ebrahim Desai and Mufti Taqi Usmani, who constantly have spoken against the Mawlid. And Mufti Ebrahim goes to the length of declaring it as having no basis in the Shariah whatsoever.

I apologise for bringing up this discussion, but I do have genuine confusions in my head that need clearing.

Jazak Allahi Khair brothers for your time

P.S. - To brother Abd Al Mustafa: - You make it sound like as though Mufti Muhammad is not capable of dealing with this issue. I am a very deep admirer of Sheikh Nuh, and his Suhba has definitely helped a lot. That does not mean that I not look towards other scholars.

['Abd al-Mustafa]

Brother asslamu alaikum

My dear brother,

If you have a misunderstanding about what someone said, then it is better to be quiet or ask that person what he means by what he said.

Assumed conclusions and judgements even are dangerous, and contrary to the adab of speaking especially here in time of Ramazan.


If you get the feeling that I am saying that a particular scholar is not capable of something,

if you also get the feeling that I am telling you to not to look towards other scholars

then believe me, this is just a misunderstanding.

Please do look at all the scholars of Islam, if possible leave no one and learn all the good from them, insha Allah

misunderstandings come from improper readings and preassumed assumptions

which when avoided, prevents unnecessary assumed accusations.

your brother in islam,

with a big hug and immense Mabrook of Ramazan,


'abd al-Mustafa

[ahsanirfan]

Jazak Allahi khair brother Abd Al Mustafa, we all need this love. ;) I clearly misunderstood you.

Ma'as Salam

[Muawiyah]

I know of Haji Imadullah Makki (and old old Deobandi scholar) who was fond of Mawlid,

Hadhrat Haji Imdadullah rahimahullah adopted all the positions of his mureed Hadhrat Faqeeh ul Hind Mawlana Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi rahimahullah before he died. Refer to Ashraf us-Sawanih page 348-350

[3Abdullah]

Yes you have to believe in the possibility of karaamaat ul awliyaa to be a muslim. Allah Ta`ala has said in the Quraan..


Unfortunately these people whom you have mentioned are not the 'Real Auliya' of Barelvi School. The 'Head of Auliya' is 'Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu, and Auliya like Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, Khajah Ghareeb Nawaz (Bestower to the Poor), Daata Ganj Bakhsh (Besower of Treasures) and lots of others..

And by the way can you present a single verse from Quran, which differentiates this type of people from the rest of Ummah as Barelvi School separates 'Auliya'?

Can you prove Sufism through Quran, as the Spiritual Islam?

Can't pious common men be Wali of Allah?

Must this Wilayat transfer from generation to generation through SPERMS?

[ahsanirfan]

Hadhrat Haji Imdadullah rahimahullah adopted all the positions of his mureed Hadhrat Faqeeh ul Hind Mawlana Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi rahimahullah before he died. Refer to Ashraf us-Sawanih page 348-350

Salam o alaikum

ok even then, why is it that the ulama in syria and lebenon and the UAE, and the traditional ones in saudi, adopt the mawlid, sheikh hamza sits in the mawlid, i even heard him state once that there was difference of opinion regarding it.... why is it then that the deobandis, the mainstream ones, not accept it as a difference of opinion rather than say that it is something that has no basis in the shariah..... i have also read somewhere that shah wali allah also allowed mawlid and so did mulla ali al qari, why then did the deobandis chose to follow a position which is contrary to the consensus, to the point of declaring it something out of Islam, and not acknowledging difference of opinion

jazak Allahi khair
ma'as salam

[Muawiyah]

That's what "difference of opinion" means you know, some people allow it, some don't. Consensus would be when everybody allowed it, or disallowed it. Anyway we've had this discussion before (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442)

[iqadeer]

I think that this issue is really a "dead horse". The mainstream position of Deobandi scholars is that we shouldn't celebrate the Mawlood in the conventional manner, i.e. the way its celebrated by the Barelvis of Indo-Pak sub-continent. This is due to the 'munkiraat' or evil things that are found in it. They use the Hanafi principle of "sadd-e-dharai" which essentially means that we should close the door that leads to any haraam. In other words, they don't disagree that we should say salaat and salaam but it should be in accordance with the principles of shariah. Their position is based on fiqh and we shouldn't blame them for reaching this ijtihaad. Walah o Alam bis sawab.

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

"It suffices to state that the four famous Imaams and traditional scholars, viz. Imaam Abu Hanifa, Imaam Shaafi’ee, Imaamm Maaliki and Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, regard the celebration of Meelaad as impermissible.

The abovementioned Imaams were great traditional scholars and masters in every field of Islam. No latter scholar’s views can be equated to the views of these great Imaams. One may go one step beyond the four Imaams, the era of the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum). They loved the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) but never did they celebrate Meelaad. In fact, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) never celebrated his own birth or instructed anyone to do so.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai"

[faqir]

Just because they did not celebrate it does not mean they deemed it impermissible. :)

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

Just because they did not celebrate it does not mean they deemed it impermissible. :)
What is bida'? To do something that's not part of deen and to consider it part of deen. If the Sahaba never did it, the Taba'een never did it and the great ulema after them never did mawlud, then how can it be part of deen?

[faqir]

Imaam Suyuti writes in Al Hawi li al fatawi:




The Sheikh of Islam and hadith master of his age, Ahmad ibn Hajar (Asqalani) was asked about the practice commemorating the birth of the Prophet (May the Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him), and gave the following written reply: “As for the origin of the practice of commemorating the Prophet’s birth (May the Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him), it is an innovation that has not been conveyed to us from any of the pious early Muslim (Salafus Saleh) of the first three centuries, despite which it has included both features that are praiseworthy and avoids those that are not. If one takes care to include a commemoration only things that are praiseworthy and avoids those that are otherwise, it is a praiseworthy innovation, while if one does not, it is not.” (End of Ibn Hajar Asqalani’s statement.)



Imaam Suyuti continues in his own words:

An authentic primary textual basis from the which its legal validity I inferable has occurred to me, namely the rigorously authenticated (Sahih) hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim that ‘The Prophet (May the Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him) came to Medinah and found the Jews fasting on the tenth of Muharram (Ashura), so he asked them about it and they replied, “ it is the day on which Allah drowned Pharaoh and rescued Moses, so we fast in it, in thanks to Allah the Most High,”



Speaking about the above hadith Imaam Suyuti says,

Which indicates the validity of giving thanks to Allah for blessings He has bestowed on a particular a benefit or averting affliction, repeating one’s thanks on the anniversary of that day every year, giving thanks to Allah taking any kind of various forms of worship such as prostration, fasting, giving charity, or reciting the Quran. And what blessing is greater than the birth of the Prophet (May the Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him), the Prophet of Mercy, on this day? In the light of which, one should take care to commemorate it on the day itself in order to conform to the above story of Moses and the tenth of Muharram, though those who do not view the matter thus do not mind commemorating it on any day of the month, while some have expanded the time to any day of the year, wherever exception may be taken at such a view.



The foregoing is in regard to its legal basis. As for what is therein, it should be confined to the expresses thanksgiving to Allah Most High, of the like of the above –mentioned practices such as reciting the Quran, feeding others, giving charity, and singing something of the odes that praise the Prophet (May the Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him) or encourage one to do with less of this-worldly things, inspiring the hearts of the listeners to do good and to work for the hereafter. As for what is added to this, of singing to singing, amusement, and so forth, what should be said of it is that the permissible therein that displays rejoicing over the day is of no harm if conjoined with it, while what is unlawful, offensive, or unpraiseworthy (khilaf al-awla) is forbidden.”

[faqir]

Mujaddid Alf Thani otherwise known as Shaykh Sirhindi (R) on mawlid:

" Gatherings of Meelaad as-Shareef with the recitation of Holy Quraan with good (melodious) voice and Naats and Qasidaas are recited for Huzoor Sallallaho alayhi wa sallam then what is the hesitation ? "

[Ahmed Sirhindi, Maktobaat, Volume 1, First Chapter, Maktoob number 42, page 154]

[faqir]

Asalamu alaykum,

And finally Akhi, read the following by Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam:

Why do some Sunni Ulema - like the Deobandis - Prohibit the Mawlid?

http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.asp?txt_QuestionID=q-11251622

Wasalam.

[ahsanirfan]

Salam o alaikum

Jazak Allahi khair brothers for all the great responses. However, I must say I have read everything that pertains to this topic earlier on and in other posts on this forum.

I must make it clear that my background has been Salafi for a number of years. And when I realized the error of my ways, I naturally switched to Deobandi, since this is what I had access to. For this reason I laways thought Mawlid is bid'ah, NO MATTER WHAT.

However as it turns out many great ulama, like Shah Wali Ullah, Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi, Imam Nawawi, Imam Hajar al Asqalani, Imam Suyuti, to quote only a few have spoken in extremely favourable terms about the Mawlid. Also I have heard from somewhere that Imam Abu Hanifa used to where expensive clothing whenever he was in a gathering that made discussion on the Prophet s.a.s. When asked why he did so, he stated that he was in the gathering of the greatest human on earth, and for this reason he wore expensive clothing, in order to honour the Rasul s.a.s. Shuyukh like Hamza Yusuf also speak favourably of the Meelad. Even in Salafi influenced UAE and Saudi, there exist traditional scholars who hold the Mawlid in high regard. Also within the Deobandi school some state that Mawlid is permissible, if kept under certain conditions.

People on this forum have told me that a permissible action could be deemed haram if it would stop the people from indulging in the bidat prevelant in that permissible act. Even with this principle in mind, this still does not justify the statements made by Mufti Ebrahim and Mufti Taqi, that
"since Mawlid did not happen in the time of the Rasul, there fore it is bid'a" or "Mawlid has no basis in Shariah" Why not simply state that "we have a difference of opinion regarding mawlid" or "we prohibit mawlid ONLY and ONLY because of innovations". Why go throught the charade of trying to disprove the permissibility of the Mawlid first and then adding weight to the argument by mentioning bida't later on? This is what I don't understand.

Jazak Allahi khair

Ma'as Salam

[SUBHAN'ALLAH]

Assalamu Alaikum Waramatullahi Wabarakatuhu Wamaghfiratuhu

well i agree with Faqir coz doing Dhikr of the Prophet (saw) is a good thing. i would just like to ask those who do not celebrate Mawlid un Nabi (saw) if its stated that we CANNOT celebrate it? anywayz check dis group out http://groups.msn.com/minhajulquran. its got plenty of stuff about mawlid un Nabi (saw) and im sure u'll benefit.

jazak'Allah khairan

wassalaam

[SUBHAN'ALLAH]

salaamz

forgot to add dat, recently His Eminence, Shaikh-ul-Islam, Quaid-e-Inqilaab, Professor Doctor Tahir-ul-Qadri has produced a book on Mawlid-un-Nabi (saw) which consists ova 1000 pages! masha'Allah, wot a great Scholar he is!

May Allah (swt) increase us in knowledge and guide us all amongst the straight path, without any misunderstandings, misconceptions and mis-applied text! insha'Allah Aameen.

fi aman Allah

[ahsanirfan]

Salam o alaikum

Brother, no need to convince me of the validity of the mawlid, I completely agree with it, however my question still remains unanswered, why is it that the ulama of deoband prefer to act as though mawlid is not part of the shariah at all? why cant they simply say that "we have a difference of opinion" and the like? why do they have to go on proving the invalidity of the mawlid and make those who perferm it sound like bidatis, why cant they just state the obvious, namely that there is a difference of opinion, rather than label everyone who celebrates it as bidati?

ma'as salam

[Mossy]

Well, the best way to find out would probably be to ask them :)

ps, she's a sister. You can tell by the egghead hijabi sign next to her name.

[SUBHAN'ALLAH]

salaam

well bro, think about that. u know that there are ignorant ppl who cannot face the truth even wen u show them the evidence.
well the best way to deal wid em is to simply let them believe wot they want, and we believe wot we want. just try to ignore em, becoz Allah (swt) guides those whom he wishes! there is no point argueing wid those kinda ppl coz it would just cause dis-unity. anywayz bro sorry if i didnt answer ur question. i dont think im knowledgable enough to do so.

May Allah (swt) watch ova us. Aameen.

Allah hafiz
(sis in Islam)

[ahsanirfan]

ooooops

[Aqdas]

Assalamu 'Alaikum!

The Sunni population all over the world that celebrates the Mawlid can never be criticised. As the general principle is that:

“There is no condemnation in matters of [genuine] difference of opinion.” [Ibn `Abd al-Salam, Zarkashi, and others; Mawsu`a Fiqhiyya]

As this thread has shown, the luminaries of the ummah have advocated the Mawlid over the centuries whilst its opponents have arisen comparitively recently.

Wassalam

[GenN]

Assalmu alaykum,

a couple of hundred years ago when people were more islamic orientated, wanted to live according to Islam and could distinguish between, fard, wajib, sunnah, nafl, haraam, makruh etc then An optional zhkir gathering which was not considered obligatory like the mawlid would have been fine, and cold only be a good bida, as shown by the likes of the schoalrs in those days such as Imam nawawi, suyti etc.


However today when people don't even pray, but calle you a "wahabi" if you don't celebrate mawlid, in an age when the roots and fundamentals of Islam are not clear, then can the mawlid be anything but a bida that should not be practiced, due to it leading to the many haraam, makruh actions (not to mention people thinking it to be wajib to celerbrate it).

That is my view, and i find it to be the safest view.


Allah Knows best.

was salaam.

[Azzam]

This practice was not practiced by the Prophet SAW nor the Companions nor the the earlier generations. Therefore it came about later on.

If someone is discussing the merits of the Prophet SAW then this should be done everyday. And in the month of Rabi ul Awwal even more, because just as you would teach kids about Battle of Badr and Uhud and all the great things than nothing is greater than the Birth of Sayyidina Muhammad SAW.

However, we must remember that the Companions loved the Prophet SAW much more than us and they did not do it when they could have. To me thats the defining line.

People also go to extremes in this, and then people force people to celebrate it and they themselves think its part of Islam when it is not.

People also forget what the sunnah is and indulge in these types of things.

I know people who dont pray properly but they believe they will be rewarded for this.

Then other people neglect the faraaid and the waajibaat and indulge in this.

Also thats just my opinion as well.

[3Abdullah]

faqir: Just because they did not celebrate it does not mean they deemed it impermissible.

Masha Allah, what a beautiful argument!

Sahabah didn't celebrate Christmas, it doesn't mean they deemed it impermissible.

Sahabah didn't celebrate Hindus' Holi and Basant, it doesn't mean they deemed it impermissible..

And Sahabah didn't pray 3 Rakahs obligatory at Fajr, it doesn't mean they deemed it a Bid'ah..

[3Abdullah]

What is bida'? To do something that's not part of deen and to consider it part of deen. If the Sahaba never did it, the Taba'een never did it and the great ulema after them never did mawlud, then how can it be part of deen?

So what if Sahabah didn't celebrate it.
After all our Christian brothers celebrate their Prophet's Birthday, how can we Muslims stay behind them, we must celebrate our Prophet's Birthday in the sunnah of our Christian Brothers.

[3Abdullah]

To brother faqir

I believe that Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Sheikh Syuti, Mujaddid Alf Thani or anyone else is not a Messenger of Allah nor the Infallible Imam.
If they allow to drink 2% of Liquor (Sharaab) as allowed by British Muslim Law Council (definitely Scholars have allowed it), Liquor will not be allowed.

If any great Imam (and not the Infallible Imam) asks us to jump into fire, Fire will not become the Paradise..

And by the way which verse of Quran, and which Sunnah of Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam commands Muslims to follow any great Scholars and forbids to follow Quran, Sunnah and Traditions of Sahabah?

In short these are the scholars which have destroyed Islam, but no not them, these are us, Blind Parrots, who follow these scholars like the sheep or Pied Piper's Rats.
WHY ARE WE THIS MUCH GENIOUS THAT WE DON'T TEST THE FATWAS OR JUDGEMENTS OF ANY SCHOLAR OVER QURAN AND SUNNAH?

[Live for Islam]

Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullah,

Just a reminder to all. This is the blessed month of Ramadhan. Please refrain from petty arguments. Remember the hadith of the Prophet (SAW): "Whoever remains silent will be successful." (Ahmed, Tirmidhi). And also be careful in your speech, don't say something you will most definitely come to regret later on and don't speak without knowledge.

Jazakumullahu Khairun.

Wassalam.

[3Abdullah]

Assalamu 'Alaikum!

The Sunni population all over the world that celebrates the Mawlid can never be criticised. As the general principle is that:

“There is no condemnation in matters of [genuine] difference of opinion.” [Ibn `Abd al-Salam, Zarkashi, and others; Mawsu`a Fiqhiyya]


SubhaanAllah, what a great quote..

Quran and Sunnah is clearly forbidding the differences and here Infallible Imams like Ibn Abd al-Salam etc are promoting the difference in opinion which is in fact following different Islam from others.

And just watch the blessings of 'Difference of Opinion', a number of Islamic Schools, issuing Fatwas of Takfeer, and showing their hatred for each other, SubhaanAllah, what the blessings of Differences.

We condemn shias to have had 12 Infallible Imams, and we don't sweep before our own doors, if we start counting we will have 12000 Infallible Imams, who make things permissible and impermissible, exactly on the path of our Jews Imams.

[3Abdullah]

Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullah,

Just a reminder to all. This is the blessed month of Ramadhan. Please refrain from petty arguments. Remember the hadith of the Prophet (SAW): "Whoever remains silent will be successful." (Ahmed, Tirmidhi). And also be careful in your speech, don't say something you will most definitely come to regret later on and don't speak without knowledge.

Jazakumullahu Khairun.

Wassalam.

SubhaanAllah, another beautiful word.

Stay silent but when?

Will you please specify the conditions, so that they could be implemented.

[Aqdas]

Assalamu 'Alaikum

Yes, the Imam's were not infallible. Neither are you. The difference is they were much, much, much more learned than you. Also, did you notice they all agreed at the permissibility of the Mawlid? One or two can be wrong, but so many Muhadditheen, Muhaqqiqeen and Mujaddideen being wrong on one mas'ala? I'd rather believe you are wrong.

Whose word shall I take brother, your's or their's? Before you say it, I will take the Qur'an and Sunnah. So, whose understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah is better? Your's or their's?

As for those who say Mawlid was OK then but not now. What do you say about the contemporary Shuyookh such as Shaykh Keller, Shaykh Haddad and Shaykh Hamza Yusuf who still partake in Mawlid?

Wassalam

[Live for Islam]

SubhaanAllah, another beautiful word.

Stay silent but when?

Will you please specify the conditions, so that they could be implemented.

Intelligence is a beautiful thing, don't you believe, brother? Insha-Allah, use it, Allah (SWT) has blessed you with it. Again remember this is the month of blessing, of mercy, of forgiveness...not a time to rant and argue.

Jazakallah

Wassalam.

[3Abdullah]

Aqdas: Yes, the Imam's were not infallible. Neither are you. The difference is they were much, much, much more learned than you. Also, did you notice they all agreed at the permissibility of the Mawlid? One or two can be wrong, but so many Muhadditheen, Muhaqqiqeen and Mujaddideen being wrong on one mas'ala? I'd rather believe you are wrong.

Being learned is not the standard to become an Authority, after all, many Shia Scholars, Christian Scholars and Qadiyani Scholars are learned.
Brother, Majority of Muslims avoid Mawlid, only Non-Arab Muslims who are impressed and fooled by Shias (Persians) celebrate this.
And as you claim that majority of scholars allow it, so I have seen only 3 or 4 big names by now, but still majority can never become the authority, you know why?
Majority of Muslims of today are following Wrong or Incomplete Islam..
I hope they are not the Authority.

And this is what my point is brother, that Ummah is divided on these matters, there is no Ijma' existed today on Mawlid, but yes
There is one Ijma' which is the Authority for every Muslim does exist and that is the Ijma' (consensus) of Sahabah (companions of Prophet s.a.w) that 'Meelad is not to be celebrated'.

Whose word shall I take brother, your's or their's? Before you say it, I will take the Qur'an and Sunnah. So, whose understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah is better? Your's or their's?

We will take the understanding of the Blessed Companions of Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam.
Since the Second century of Hijrah, Muslim Ummah has been divided and we have lack of Ijma'.

Following Quran and Sunnah is so easy brother, only these scholars misguide people by arguing that whose understanding of Quran should be followed. This is the Fitnah and our period is the worst of all periods, with lots of Fitnahs, in the form of these Misguiding Scholars.
Only the Rope of Allah, Al-Quran-al-Hakeem can save us from destruction.

As for those who say Mawlid was OK then but not now. What do you say about the contemporary Shuyookh such as Shaykh Keller, Shaykh Haddad and Shaykh Hamza Yusuf who still partake in Mawlid?

They are nothing at all as compared to our Sahabah.
Brother, recognise them, they are the Idols, the Living Idols whom we are worshipping and we are committing a Crime.

May Allah guide me and us all.

[GenN]

As for those who say Mawlid was OK then but not now. What do you say about the contemporary Shuyookh such as Shaykh Keller, Shaykh Haddad and Shaykh Hamza Yusuf who still partake in Mawlid?

Wassalam

I would say they have failed to take the current reality of the muslims into account, and instead have simply said yes to the mawlid as the scholars of old said yes to it. There are other muslim ulema who have taken the reality into account and stated mawlid is bida in todays context, but not back in those days when islamic awareness was stronger it was ok. This is by far a view with much more insight and wisdom.

Whose opion are you going to take. The strong opion is quite obviious to me.

and Allah knows best.

[ahsanirfan]

how exactly is it bida in today's context? if it does not contain any reprehensible innovation you would still call it a bida? if it was performed in EXACTLY the same way as it was performed back then, what would u say to that. if u say that we dont know how to perform the mawlid in the context of the past, then i say that we have the fatwa of shaikh sirhindi in which he categorically allows naats, recitation of the quran etc, thus we do know how to perform the mawlid... and what if someone prays all his fard salat... and someone does not consider mawlid to be above the faraid.. and what if someone goes ltter by letter according to the shariah..wud mawlid be impermissible even for him? shaikh keller is an example... he is a complete sunni... and has reached the rank of shaikh e tariqat as a result of him following the shariah to the letter.,.wud the mawlid be forbidden to him too? i honestly cannot understand this.. the ulama of all the people should be kind in their word... instead we have everyone labelling everyone a bidati or a kaafir.... cant we just say "its difference of opinion" after all they are a mercy..they are a rahmah..not a zahmah.. for once cant the deobanids PLEASE acknoledge this as a difference of opinion rather than making this an issue of iman and kufr.. i agree there are people who engage bidat in the mawlid, why not speak just against the bidat themselves rather trying to refute the other side by sayin that the mawlid has no basis in shariah.. that is a blatant lie.. if it has no basis in shariah then why have so many scholars of the past allowed it... why not simply say that we do not allow it because of the bidat present in them and that WE HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THE GENERAL CONCEPT of the bidah.. i have only seen mufti ibn adam do this and NO ONE ELSE. at least one deobandi has the mind open enough to acknoledge a difference of opinion....

ma'as salam

p.s. i apologise for being emotional but i think its high time we let our differences aside and focused on the big picture...of how to better the ummah rather than disallow them that which is permissible...

[Muawiyah]

for once cant the deobanids PLEASE acknoledge this as a difference of opinion rather than making this an issue of iman and kufr...


The akaabir deobandi ulama never make it a matter of eemaan and kufr, they only consider it an `amali bida`h, they do not declare people mubtadi` merely on `amali bida'at. Even on this forum all the debates about mawlid have been started by our "mawleedi" brothers asking "Why don't the Deobandi ulama allow mawleed?" As if it's a fardh greater the biggest fardh.

['Abd al-Mustafa]

assalamu alaikum brother Muawiyah,


" As if it's a fardh greater the biggest fardh"


Lets leave this just as it is, a thought in your mind brother, and not implied by any of your "mawleedi" brothers here in this forum,

by mawleedi, do u mean an insult, sarcasm, a ridicule, or just a joke, or a complement?

I would love to be a mawleedi and nothing else, insha Allah

your brother in Islam,

'Abd al-Mustafa

from Kunduz (Northern Afghanistan)

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

Salam o alaikum

Brother, no need to convince me of the validity of the mawlid, I completely agree with it, however my question still remains unanswered, why is it that the ulama of deoband prefer to act as though mawlid is not part of the shariah at all?

ma'as salam

To say something is part of Shariah you need to prove it from the Life of Nabi (SAW) or the lives of his companions. In islam to prove a point you only have four sources.
1 Quran
2 Sunnah
3 Ijma
4 Qiyas from the above three
And seens Mawid is not proven from any of this, it can not be considered part of Shariah

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

So what if Sahabah didn't celebrate it.
After all our Christian brothers celebrate their Prophet's Birthday, how can we Muslims stay behind them, we must celebrate our Prophet's Birthday in the sunnah of our Christian Brothers.


Nabi (SAW) said. " He ever imitates a nation, he is one of them. You want us to imitates the Chirstians? Those people in which the quran repeatly curses and says they are astray???

i think i'll pass on that

[ahsanirfan]

so you are trying to imply that everyone before the deobandis was wrong? imam nawawi, imam hajar al haytami, imam ahmad sirhindi, shah wal allah, imam hajar al asqalani, etc... i think they knew better than the deobandis about the shariah.. if it was good enough for them.. it is good enough for me..... i can see why the people call you 'wahhabis'.... u have implied here that everyone was wrong previously.. that is what the wahhabis and salafis say.....

ma'as salam

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

To brother faqir

WHY ARE WE THIS MUCH GENIOUS THAT WE DON'T TEST THE FATWAS OR JUDGEMENTS OF ANY SCHOLAR OVER QURAN AND SUNNAH?

It's not everyone job to understand the indepth understanding of quran and hadith.
In one hadith it comes the u should kill that person that cross infront of you in salaah. Are you gonna act upon this and go and kill that person??

[Muawiyah]

by mawleedi, do u mean an insult, sarcasm, a ridicule, or just a joke, or a complement?

wa alykum us salam
I used the term "Mawleedi" for want of a better term, not as an insult, sarcasm etc. etc. I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings, it wasn;t meant to.

wasSalaam

[Muawiyah]

so you are trying to imply that everyone before the deobandis was wrong?

There was no consensus on mawleed even before the Deobandis, it has been controversial since its inception. Imam Suyuti's essay in defence of mawleed was written in refutation of Allaamah Fakihani's "al-Mawrid fil-Kalam ala-l-Mawlid" in which Allamah Fakihani said that the Mawleed is an innovation invented by useless and idle people, who are slaves of their stomachs and dominated by their base desires, as Imam Suyuti has quoted in his essay.

[ahsanirfan]

so i guess there is difference of opinion after all..... there is not one but 2 opinions

[suhayl]

Bid'ah is to make something which is not a sunnah, wajib, fardh etc into a sunnah, wajib, farz etc.

[GenN]

so i guess there is difference of opinion after all..... there is not one but 2 opinions

Assalmau alaykum brother.

Please tell me exactly which deobandi alims have called someone a kafir due to his celebrating mawlid, or have questioned his eeman? If you cannot then you have slandered all the ulema from deoband.

It appears you have some sort of hatred for the ulema of deoband due to you being unable to understadning their stance

And who says there is no difference of opion on it? I myself follow deobandi ulema in terms of fiqh but realise that mawlid is not bida if done correctly ,as do deobandi ulema i have come across.

As for people like Shiekh Nuh doing it in the way you say, then it depends. If he did it infront of other lay people in PUBLIC then i would still call it a bida as the ulema are the teachers and examples to be follwoed and many aongst the lay public would get differnt views.ideas. If however
he did it in a place where the people was already practising, had their basic understanig of den such as within a madrassah, then i would not call it a bida (assuming everything else is also sharia compliant).

That is just my view.

Also if the mawlid never came about then this debate would not have arisen. If this debate and many others had not arisen, neither would the slander and backbiting have arisen. Instead we could have spent time reading more useful threads.

This is just one consequnece of the bida of the mawlid.

I wonder how many more there have been.

Was salaam.

[3Abdullah]

GenN: Also if the mawlid never came about then this debate would not have arisen. If this debate and many others had not arisen, neither would the slander and backbiting have arisen. Instead we could have spent time reading more useful threads.

This is just one consequnece of the bida of the mawlid.

Masha Allah a very beautiful point from brother GenN, JazaakAllah.
Now let me portray the picture how people copy their Christians' Guide, who have invented / innovated the merry Christmas.

1. In Pakistan they wear new clothes as the Leaders do on December 25.

2. They decorate mosques, buildings and highways with lines of electric bulbs, and the joke in Pakistan is that in streets these lights use 'illegal hook connection' from electric wires, so no bills are paid, that is why they are lit up even after some days of 'Meelad Shareef' days and nights.
How beautiful way of loving the Prophet. MaazAllah how much pleased he would be when people steal electricity to celebrate his birthday.

3. They hoist green flags of 'Jashn Eid Meeladun Nabi' with monogram on it, on their houses etc.

4. They visit their relatives and exchange sweets. (Sweet shops do the best business on this day)

5. This all by know I know about these 'Lovers of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam'.

[3Abdullah]

Abd al-Mustafa:

the signature:

Ya Abu Bakar Madad
Ya Umar Madad
Ya Uthman Madad
Ya Ali Madad

Will you please explain what the meaning of your nick is and why are you asking Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali for help.

Is one God not enough for you?

Now to another brother who said that Ibn Hajar Asqalani and other scholars couldn't be wrong in that Mawlid is permissible.
To him, everyone can be wrong except the Prophets who are guided by Allah.
Please don't compare our scholars with 'Infallible Imams' of shias, because our practical life is proving that we have made so many 'Infallible Imams', who can't make mistakes, who can't be wrong, who makes Bid'ahs hala and whatever they do is correct, even if it is colliding with Quran and Sunnah.

[3Abdullah]

SeekerOfknowledge: It's not everyone job to understand the indepth understanding of quran and hadith.
In one hadith it comes the u should kill that person that cross infront of you in salaah. Are you gonna act upon this and go and kill that person??

This is a lame excuse, as Seeking the knowledge is fardh (obligatory) on every Muslim. And yes it's everyone's responsibility to understand Quran and Sunnah.

If in one hadith it comes that the person should be killed who crosses before one who prays, then he would be killed if an example of Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam or his companions of killing such persons exist.

And the extract of my words was that if a scholar issues a fatwa, one should ask him what the supporting evidence from Quran and Sunnah he has acquired. As Fatwas of scholars often have a clash with each other, and people follow the fatwa of those scholars who belong to a certain school of thought.
In short Islam has been hijacked by different Schools of Thought and ultimately the False Scholars (ulamaa-e-soo).

It doesn't mean that all scholars are wrong. Of course this is not possible, but only those scholars are right who follow Quran and Sunnah, and who don't follow the scholars of Past like great names Ibn Hajar, Ibn Taymiyah and other great names etc blindly.
Even a good scholar can make mistakes, he can issue a wrong judgement.

[Ahle-Sunnah]

[QUOTE=3Abdullah]Abd al-Mustafa:

the signature:

Ya Abu Bakar Madad
Ya Umar Madad
Ya Uthman Madad
Ya Ali Madad

[SIZE=2]Will you please explain what the meaning of your nick is and why are you asking Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali for help.

Is one God not enough for you?

Does that mean that we shouldnt go to doctors when we are sick, should we just rely on Allah, or When our car breaks down, we should just sit back and wait for Allah to fix it, Brothers we dont need a mechanic.
We are permitted By Allah to ask for help of the pious.

1. Some persons say that to utter "Ya Sheikh Abdal Qaadir Jilani Shai un lillah" is Shirk because one is making partnership with Allah Ta’ala (committing Shirk) by asking for assistance from the creation of Allah Ta'ala. They say that one can only ask directly from Allah Ta’ala.

2. The Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'at believes that it is absolutely permissible to say "Ya Sheikh Abdal Qaadir Jilani Shai un lillah" when asking for assistance from those servants of Allah Ta'ala whom He has appointed as helpers of the Ummah.

3. We understand from the verse "Iyya ka Na'budu Wa Iy'ya ka Nas Ta'een" (You Alone we worship and You Alone we ask for Help), which is found in Surah Fateha, that the True Helper is Allah Ta'ala. But it is Allah Ta’ala who has appointed helpers from within His servants to assist the creation with His permission.

4. Hazrat Shah Abdul Azeez Muhaddith Delhwi (radi Allahu anhu) explains the Tafseer of the verse "Iy'ya ka Na'budu Wa Iy'ya Ka Nastaeen" by writing: "Here, it should be understood that to ask for assistance from anyone other than Allah, by putting full trust and not thinking of it as a marvel of Almighty Allah, is prohibited. But, if the attention is towards Allah and then to think of a person as the splendour of Almighty Allah and by keeping the means and wisdom of Almighty Allah before you, if one asks from anyone other than Allah, then this is not far from the Wisdom of Almighty Allah. This action is permissible and allowed in Shari’ah. To ask for help in this way is not really asking from someone but Allah, but in reality it is to ask from Allah." (Tafseer Azeezi)

5. As long as a person bears this fact in mind that the True and Real Helper is Allah Ta'ala and no matter whom he asks from, it will be through the Mercy of Allah Ta'ala, then it is permissible to ask from such a person. This can never be termed as Shirk.

6. In the Holy Quran, it is proven that the Ambiya (alaihimus salaam) asked the servants of Allah Ta'ala, who are His creation, to assist them in their mission of Deen. To quote two examples:-

a. We read about Hazrat ‘Isa (alaihis salaam) asking for help from his Disciples: "Who are those who will assist me in the path of Allah." His Disciples replied to him by saying, "From the servants, we will help in the Deen of Allah." (Part 3, Ruku 13)

b. Hazrat Moosa (alaihis salaam) also asked Allah Ta'ala for assistance and the name of his brother, Hazrat Haroon (alaihis salaam) was suggested to him.

7. If it was Shirk to ask for assistance from the creation, then the Ambiya (alaihimus salaam) would have never asked the people to assist them in their propogation of Deen.

8. Besides the Ambiya (alaihimus salaam) asking the servants of Allah Ta'ala to assist them in the Deen, Allah Ta'ala states in the Holy Quran that Jibraeel (alaihis salaam) and the pious Muslims are also helpers: "Then, undoubtedly Allah is his helper, and Jibraeel and the righteous Believers and after that the Angels are his helpers." (Part 28)

9. The Holy Quran says: "We gave clear signs to 'Isa son of Maryam and we assisted him with the Holy Spirit." (Part 3, Ruku 1) The Holy Spirit in this verse refers to Hazrat Jibraeel (alaihis salaam), who is an Angel and one of Allah Ta'ala’s creation. If the help of the creation was considered to be Shirk, then Allah Ta'ala would have never allowed Jibraeel (alaihis salaam) to be the assistant of Hazrat ‘Isa (alaihis salaam).

10. Once, Hazrat Has'saan bin Thaabit (radi Allahu anhu) recited a Naath in the court of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam). The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) thereafter made a Du'a for him. This Du'a alone will show that we are from the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'at. The beautiful Du'a was that: "O Allah! Assist him (Hazrat Has'saan bin Thaabit) through Rooh Quds (Jibraeel Ameen)." (Bukhari Shareef)

11. Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Haq Muhaddith Delhwi (radi Allahu anhu) states: "There are certain Awliyah Allah, whom Allah has created only for the informing and guidance of his servants. People with needs turn towards them for help and they receive for that which they ask and they chant this song that, 'If you come towards Me with your body, then I shall come towards you with My soul'." (Tafseere Azeezi)

12. Sayyidi Jamal bin Abdullah bin Omar Makki (radi Allahu anhu), in his Fatawa states that he was questioned about those people who proclaim in times of difficulty, "Ya Rasoolullah, Ya Ali, Ya Sheikh Abdul Qaadir" as to these proclamations being permissible in Islam. The great scholar replied: "Yes, these proclamations are permissible. To call to them is permissible including using their names as Wasilas. This is permissible in the light of the Shari'ah. Such an act is desirable and approved. Only those individuals who are stubborn and arrogant would oppose or question this reality, and they certainly are unfortunate and deprived of the Barakaat (blessing) of the Awliya Allah."

13. Imaam Allama Khairudeen Ramli (radi Allahu anhu) wrote: "People who proclaim, Ya Sheikh Abdul Qaadir (are merely emulating) a call, what, therefore, is the reason for it, not to be permissible?" (Fatawa Khayria)

14. Hazrat Ghousul-Azam, Sheikh Abdul Qaadir Jilaani (radi Allahu anhu) said: "If anyone seeks my help in difficulty, I remove the difficulty and if anyone in danger calls me by my name, I save him from danger and if anyone seeks my Wasila (medium) to Allah the Almighty in need and necessity, these are fulfilled". (Bahyay-ul-Asran; Zubdat-ul-Asran)

15. Sayiddina Ghousul-Azam (radi Allahu anhu), states: "If a person in distress or hardships calls out to me, his hardship will be eradicated. If a person uses my name as his Wasila (medium) and pleads to Allah, his need will be fulfilled."

16. The great Saint describes a Salaah, which can be extremely beneficial. He states: "A person should perform two Rakaats of Salaah, in every Rakaat he should recite eleven times the Surah Fateha and, thereafter, Surah Ikhlaas eleven times. After completing the Salaah, he should recite the Durood and Salaam upon the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), then remembering me he should proceed eleven steps towards the direction of Baghdad invoking my name in every step, including mentioning his need and wish. In this manner (Allah willing) his need and wish will be granted."

17. The verses of the Holy Quran, the Ahadith and sayings of great Mufasireen that we have quoted here is proof enough that it is permissible to ask help from Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qaadir Jilani (radi allahu anhu). Undoubtedly, he is from those servants of Allah Ta'ala, who has been chosen to serve and help the Ummah

[ahsanirfan]

well, i guess the definition of mawlid differs for everyone..... for example, what brother abdullah mentions about the mawlid happening in pakistan.... i did not know... the definition of mawlid that i know of.. is what i see the arabs do... simply because i have lived with them for quite some time... and it is definitely not how brother abdallah described it.... to me a mawlid is simply a gathering of people where they send salawat onto the prophet... either by poetry.. or by using the examples he himself has given... and where ahadith are read in order to understand his superior character and learn from it.... and to me the date doesnt matter... as it doesnt matter to the arabs.... well i have known of a mawlid happening in ramadan too.. one could compare it to i guess a gathering of people making zikr of Allah... maybe the definition of mawlid differs from region to region.... and it may simply be that the mawlid of certain regions may not be in compliance with the shariah... wallahu alam... all i know is.... if gathering for zikr of allah is allowed.. then gathering for salawat of the prophet should also be allowed... and it is this kind of mawlid i refer to.... not something that may include bidat...wallahu alam

ma'as salam

p.s. - i have never lived in pakistan..even tho i am paki...therefore i wud never know how mawlid is celebrated there... i apologise ofr the confusion

[Mossy]

Meh. That's enough of that.