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Ansari
25-10-2004, 02:58 PM
:salam:

I have noticed it myself that most scholars just often mention 1 opinion and have all sorts of tricks and tools to back their claims up. I'm wondering if there are any books (English is preferred) that sort out all valid opinions (including minority positions) of authentic scholars on 1 subject?


I would be grateful if u could answer this also. many
> layman and some scholars of the hanafi school have said that
> shaving the beard is haram in the malaki school and growing
> the beard is fard, to a fistful.The 2 books from an indo/pak
> scholar and a salafi book mentin quotes from malaki scholars
> and books. Which i will produce below:

This scholar is probably just trying to back up his arguments
and claims. Many scholars state things like "this is agreed
upon by all four schools" as an instructive tool.

The real meaning of this is that "major scholars in all
four schools have stated this".

If you really want to know what is agreed upon by all
major scholars of our din you should refer to
Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdasi's book "Al-Mughni".

Anyone with deep knowledge of Jurisprudence knows that
differences of opinion exist within each school of knowledge.
And the way these differences are resolved is by coming up
with a "popular" and "trusted" opinion which is taught
to the masses and calling the other opinions
"minority" opinions which also have validity within the
school.

We would recommend books such as Bidayah al-Mujtahid
wa Niyahah al-Muqtasid (Averroes) and al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah
(Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi) for people interested in learning how many
valid opinions issued by authentic scholars in our din can exist
for any one subject.

http://www.guidinghelper.com/qna/clothes.html

talib al-habib
25-10-2004, 03:27 PM
salams

yes there are various of comparative fiqh, but none of note in English except for Bidayat al-Mujtahid as far as I am aware. Remember, though, that the very title of this book is an indicator as to who should be studying it, 'the beginnings of an independent jurist' - ie: one capable of weighing up every opinion and seeking out the strongest. This is a tremendously high level of ijtihad and something that no schoalr of present times has claimed to be able to do. As for us, we really should be perusing, 'bidayat al-muqallid' if such a book exists!

In the hanafi school, there are various encyclopaedic references that explore all (or most of) the opinions in the madhab, but they tend to be quite out of reach of most of us, eg: Radd al-Muhtar, Fatawa Hindiyya and the Mabsut (earlier). One of these that should be mentioned, precisely because most people are unaware of it, is Fatawa Radawiyya of Imam Ahmad Rada Khan, which is a tremendously detailed work of comparative fiqh, predominantly hanafi, but incorporating the opinions of other schools as well. It's currently published up to volume 27, with no end in sight...

Also, remember that most scholars give one opinion whilst knowing several, because (1) its less confusing for people (2) there is less temptation to following the easiest or most appealing ruling, and (3) they feel that that one is correct. For example, you won't in a hurry get a Deobandi/Barelwi scholar saying that, 'Musical instruments are haram and extremely sinful no matte what the circumstance or instrument. It is a major sin; but you know what? Abd al-Ghani an-Nablusi stated that they are permissible in his work on this subject.' It kind of clouds the message they're trying to send out. It's only once you get into a teacher-pupil relationship and start studying that they will open up all these issues to you.

was salam

Mossy
25-10-2004, 04:58 PM
Well, they just said "for people interested in learning how many valid opinion issued by authentic scholars in our din can exist for any one subject", not for understanding and weighing up yourself :)


This is a tremendously high level of ijtihad and something that no schoalr of present times has claimed to be able to do.

Um.. Weighing up differing opinions is something a large number of scholars have claimed to be able to do. It isn't a primer for those who wish to be mujtahid mutlaqs.

Abul Hasan
26-10-2004, 08:33 AM
:salam:

I have noticed it myself that most scholars just often mention 1 opinion and have all sorts of tricks and tools to back their claims up. I'm wondering if there are any books (English is preferred) that sort out all valid opinions (including minority positions) of authentic scholars on 1 subject?


:salam:

This book should help Insha'allah:

Fiqh of the 4 Madhhabs in English (http://www.fonsvitae.com/fourschoolsfiqh.html)

It is soon due for release and is quite a reliable work from the last Islamic century from an Azhari Shaykh.

Wassalam

Sadiq
26-10-2004, 01:41 PM
A good recommendation.

I heard, Prof. Dr. Wahbah al-Zuhayli, wrote a similar book in nature or was it another shaykh from that part of the world?...

I cant remember properly...

Sadiq
26-10-2004, 02:17 PM
By the way....

That is the reason, why for some reason, i have fallen in love with Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam of DarulIftaa.com

The way he explains issues are not based on 'tricks'. His style of writing and his research is something i found to be unique. Some may say, his fatawas, answers are long in length, but they are worth it. His had the best of 2 worlds as many ulama have said (sub cont, syria).

But as the brother mentionshed, we need learn "simple" fiqh, for us "simple" people. When we study with shaykhs, they will "open" gates to those oceans that are for those who can swim....

'Abd al-Mustafa
26-10-2004, 02:47 PM
assalamu alakum brother Talib alhabib,


I am aware of the works of the Mujaddid of the Sub Continent, I have found them exactly as you describe one his works

may Imam Ahmed Rida Khan raziallahu anhu be a means to reach Him subhana wataala, an intercessor on the day of atonement

your brother in Islam,

'Abd al-Mustafa

from Kunduz (Northern Afghanistan)

Aqdas
26-10-2004, 03:27 PM
Assalamu 'Alaikum

I too have read some of Imam Ahmad Rida's books. They are brilliant. I have also seen some of his fatawa and they are full of Fiqhi brilliance. May Allah shower his grave with abundant rahmah.

Wassalam

saq333
27-10-2004, 04:52 AM
:salam:

I have noticed it myself that most scholars just often mention 1 opinion and have all sorts of tricks and tools to back their claims up. I'm wondering if there are any books (English is preferred) that sort out all valid opinions (including minority positions) of authentic scholars on 1 subject?


Salaam bro,

check out Ibn Rushd's "Distinguished Jurist's Primer";
though it has an emphasis on the Maliki school, it compares and contrasts the opinions Hanafi, Shaifi'i and Maliki schools on almost, if not all subjects.

Saqib

haqq
27-10-2004, 02:55 PM
Assalaamualaikum,

Check out "The Hedayah" translated by Charles Hamilton (i think). It's a really fat thick book. It was translated about 100 or more years ago. The intro from Charles is kufr but the actual content is the same as "al-Hedayah", the Hanafi Fiqh book. I asked some scholars about the content, if it's the same as the original arabic book and he said "as far as he has compared yes but he has not compared all the content since it's too much". Although, it's a Hanafi Fiqh book, it has the positions of the other 3 Schools of Law. I am sure you all know that almost all hanafi scholars refer to al-Hedayah on fiqh matters.

I don't know where it might be available but some how I stumbled upon it at an old book store with dust piled over it. The font is very very small. One might need a magnifying glass to read. But an excellent piece of collection to have.

Was-salaam,
Haqq

Saleel
27-10-2004, 04:09 PM
:salam:

Assalaamualaikum,

Check out "The Hedayah" translated by Charles Hamilton (i think)... [snip]
Haqq
Hmm, I have it... the English is quite poor by today's standards, and it's quite difficult to read generally.

But nonetheless, it's available from Azhar Academy (http://www.azharacademy.com/) (out of stock) or Kitaabun (http://www.kitaabun.com) (slightly more expensive).

:salam:

Ansari
29-10-2004, 11:23 AM
Salaam bro,

check out Ibn Rushd's "Distinguished Jurist's Primer";
though it has an emphasis on the Maliki school, it compares and contrasts the opinions Hanafi, Shaifi'i and Maliki schools on almost, if not all subjects.

Saqib

wa alaikum salaam,

Wasnt ibn rushd a philosopher (besides his maliki background)? I have always heard negative things on philosophical issues. I know its got nothing to with the book itself, but what are the opinions about ibn rushd on this subject?

saq333
30-10-2004, 06:57 AM
wa alaikum salaam,

Wasnt ibn rushd a philosopher (besides his maliki background)? I have always heard negative things on philosophical issues. I know its got nothing to with the book itself, but what are the opinions about ibn rushd on this subject?

Wsalaam Bro,

I was VERY surprised when I got this book. It was actually reccomended to me by a Maliki brother. Up until then, I did know Ibn Rushd to be a scholar, but knew him much more as a philosopher.

Currently, I may go as far as to say, its the best comprehensive Fiqh book I have. "Reliance" may be written better, and more organized, but the "Primer" is probably more comprehensive and intense.
"Bidayat al-Mujtahid wa Nihayat al-Muqtasid" is the book's real name, and it was actually written for Qadis/Jurists--to compare and contrast the opinions of the various schools. (So I guess its pretty arrogant for me to have it in my library and think its written for me).

Nevertheless, if I havent said it enough: Highly recommended

just incase someone is reading this post without the previous ones, the books title is: "The Distinguished Jurist's Primer" by Ibn Rushd, Translated by Professor Imran Ahsan Khan Nyazee

Salaam
saqib

Mossy
30-10-2004, 07:12 AM
wa alaikum salaam,

Wasnt ibn rushd a philosopher (besides his maliki background)? I have always heard negative things on philosophical issues. I know its got nothing to with the book itself, but what are the opinions about ibn rushd on this subject?

About as much of a philosopher as Imam al Ghazali.. The tahafut of the tahafut is a fun fun book, which happens to have the best title. Ever.

Here's an interesting excerpt from the Guiding Helper webbysite:


Appendix:
=======

Now, you may be wondering what a "popular" (mash-hur) opinion
in the Maliki school is. Here is a brief explanation:

a) Imam Malik himself wrote no detailed fiqh book except of
course the Muwatta' as knowledge back then was conveyed
verbally and not using written methods.
b) Imam Malik had many students (some more qualified than
others). These students had differing levels of
understanding of Imam Malik's statements. Thus, they often
expressed legal rulings that differed from each other. However,
the Maliki scholars, by consensus, chose `Abd al-Rahman
ibn Qasim (the freed African slave who was a dedicated student
of Imam Malik) as the most reliable of his students.
c) `Abd al-Rahman's views about Imam Malik's fiqh were accurately
(without a doubt) transcribed by his student Sahnun in the
al-Mudawwanah al-Kubrah (a four volume work that contains
verbal statements of Imam Malik and `Abd al-Rahman ibn Qasim's
understanding of them).
d) Now you are ready to understand that the first-level source for a
popular opinion in the Maliki school is al-Mudawwanah al-Kubra.
e) However, some statements in the Mudawwanah are not very clear
as the high-level fiqh vocabulary of the Jurists had not
developed by then. For example, Imam Malik saying "It doesn't
please me" doesn't really tell us whether an act is makruh
or unlawful.
f) Thus, the top Maliki scholar that has ever lived (in our opinion)
went about the task of rectifying the loose-ends of the Mudawwanah
900 years ago. This man's name was Ibn Rushd (again please do
not confuse him with the philosopher Averroes). He wrote a detailed
commentary on the points mentioned in the Mudawwanah which he
called Muqaddimat Ibn Rushd. He also wrote many other books
such as his poetry book for children also called Muqqadimat that
expressed his understanding of the most trusted opinions in the
Maliki school.
g) Now you are ready to understand that the second-level refined
source for a popular opinion in the Maliki school is Ibn Rushd's
writings.
h) Now Ibn Rushd did not arbitrarily choose one of various plausible
opinions and call it mash-hur. Rather, he did extensive research
on each point including conformity/disagreement with what previous
big Maliki scholars had said and also what the primary texts state.
e) Thus in conclusion, a popular opinion in the Maliki school is an
opinion that Ibn Rushd has expressed in his writings (for old issues)
or is an opinion that conforms to the guidelines set down by Rushd
for reaching legal opinions (for new issues) in the Maliki school.

The above can serve as a general introduction to those that wish to
understand what a popular opinion is. Most popular opinions for the
Maliki school are explicitly stated along with competing
opinions in Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi's al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah.

One important note here are:

(1) Many people confuse Ibn Rushd al-Kabir with Ibn Rushd
al-Saghir (who also wrote many fiqh books like Bidayah
al-Mujtahid); so, be careful when you hear "Ibn Rushd says this;
so, this must be popular." Also, please note that in
Ibn Rushd's al-Kabir's works he often notes multiple opinions
(only one of which is marked or known to be popular in the
school or none of which is marked or known to be popular
(the latter may occur in certain rare cases in other
than his Muqaddimat)). Thus, also be careful when you hear
"Ibn Rushd al-Kabir said this; thus, this must be popular".
Rather, Ibn Rushd al-Kabir taught his students which one
was which and Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi (a student of Ibn Rushd
al-Saghir (who incidentally was the biological grandson
of Ibn Rushd al-Kabir) finally wrote these down in an
excellently organized and brief form in his book
al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah.

Thus, the way to learn what a popular opinion in the school
for the young scholar is to refer to Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi's
book al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah. The way you know that an
opinion is popular is that it says "`ala l-mash-hur" or
it is the first ruling given and then it says "wa qeela"
which means "wa qeela fi l-madh-hab al-maaliki aydan
ghayra l-awwal" (and also it is said in the Maliki school).

Also, when Ibn Juzayy al Kalbi says "ittifaqan", that means
"as agreed upon in the Maliki school". Also when he says,
"ijma'an", it means "as agreed upon by all major scholars
of the din". Thus, opinions listed with these two words
should also be treated as popular.

Please note here of all of the Maliki fiqh books that have
been written, the previous teachers of Qarawayeen (e.g,
a few hundred years ago) specifically chose Ibn Juzayy
al-Kalbi's book as the most concise and reliable compilation
of the common popular and minority opinions in the
Maliki school. For this reason, it is a mandatory text to
this day for all young scholars.

However due to Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi's extremely terse
style (and his omission of certain minor rulings, e.g.,
'sadl fi s-salah'), it is recommended that the young
scholar also have access to longer more detailed works
(such as the various shuruh of the Mukhtasar Khalil)
or also have access to a qualified Maliki scholar.

[Another important note here is that the word "popular"
(Mash-hur) is not synonymous with "dominant". And the
word "minority" to label an opinion does not necessarily
inidicate that a majority of past and present scholars
did not hold this opinion. Rather, it is very possible
that a popular opinion has been the view of less than a
majority of the past and present Maliki scholars.

Thus, the basic difference between a popular opinion and
a minority opinion has less to do with the number of
scholars who have held that opinion than it has to do with
the strength of the evidences for the opinion. The strength
of the evidences for popular opinions is generally stronger
than those of minority opinions.]

Yusuf
01-11-2004, 05:41 AM
Hmm, wheres bro Mossy? I smell the sweet fragance of a locked thread emanating from my words as its gone right off topic. Keep it open mods if you feel it a healthy debate. :)

haqq
01-11-2004, 04:53 PM
Mods - Please close this thread. This is not a healthy.

Mossy
02-11-2004, 05:36 PM
Hmm, wheres bro Mossy? I smell the sweet fragance of a locked thread emanating from my words as its gone right off topic. Keep it open mods if you feel it a healthy debate. :)

That "debate" wasn't healthy. It wasn't even a debate really..

Relevant posts have been relocated.

Ansari
15-11-2004, 05:55 PM
Have you ever heard that the beard is only sunnah?


Another valid opinion in the Maliki School is that keeping
a beard is not wajib at all - but is a sunnah. Thus, you will see
that many contemporary and qualified (and pious) imams and
scholars in Morocco do not have a beard at all.

I also think that this is the opinion of some turkish hanafi's because i found them sometimes 'liberal'. They also think that its ok for a man to wear a silver necklace. I wonder who have stated such things.

haqq
15-11-2004, 07:21 PM
Assalaamualaikum:


Have you ever heard that the beard is only sunnah?


Another valid opinion in the Maliki School is that keeping
a beard is not wajib at all - but is a sunnah. Thus, you will see
that many contemporary and qualified (and pious) imams and
scholars in Morocco do not have a beard at all.

I also think that this is the opinion of some turkish hanafi's because i found them sometimes 'liberal'. They also think that its ok for a man to wear a silver necklace. I wonder who have stated such things.

hmm... Don't know if that's a valid difference of opinion within the maliki math-hab. Here is what we know about the Maliki fiqh regarding the beard:

Shekh Ahmad Nafarawi Maliki in the commentary of Imam Abu Zayed's booklet states, "to shave the beard is without doubt haraam according to all Imams." It is also mention in "Tamheed" which is a commentary of "Muatta" (Sunnan Imam Malik (R.A.)) that to shave the beard is HARAAM and among males the only ones to resort to this practice (of shaving) are the HERMAPHRODITES (persons who possess both male and female features and characteristics).

From Darulislam.info (http://www.darulislam.info/article77.html)

Ansari
18-11-2004, 01:27 PM
Here's an interesting excerpt from the Guiding Helper webbysite

(1) Many people confuse Ibn Rushd al-Kabir with Ibn Rushd
al-Saghir (who also wrote many fiqh books like Bidayah
al-Mujtahid); so, be careful when you hear "Ibn Rushd says this;
so, this must be popular." Also, please note that in
Ibn Rushd's al-Kabir's works he often notes multiple opinions
(only one of which is marked or known to be popular in the
school or none of which is marked or known to be popular
(the latter may occur in certain rare cases in other
than his Muqaddimat)).

Well it was averroes the philosopher who wrote 'Bidayat al-Mujtahid wa Nihayat al-Muqtasid' right?

Well i guess the answer is yes: http://www.bysiness.co.uk/excerpts/excerptbidayapreface.htm

But then again, who is averroes of these two people: Ibn Rushd al-Kabir and Ibn Rushd al-Saghir

saq333
19-11-2004, 05:13 AM
Assalamualikum,

I could look this up in a Fiqh book right now, but im too lazy.

Ive always heard from people that a Goatee is the beard of Malki Fiqh?
It doesnt sound like that is correct, but Allahualim, some brothers say that.

can anyone verify?


Salaam
Saqib

Mossy
19-11-2004, 06:04 AM
Assalamualikum,

I could look this up in a Fiqh book right now, but im too lazy.

Ive always heard from people that a Goatee is the beard of Malki Fiqh?
It doesnt sound like that is correct, but Allahualim, some brothers say that.

can anyone verify?


Salaam
Saqib

The hair that makes up the beard is defined by the Maliki scholars to be that which is attached to the bone that holds the teeth - in this case this effectively means jawbone. The general prohibition is against shaving it, you can trim it as you wish. There is also a position that some scholars take that you can shave it as they do not consider it a wajib, but a mandub..

Omar HH
14-02-2006, 02:56 AM
wa alaikum salaam,

Wasnt ibn rushd a philosopher (besides his maliki background)? I have always heard negative things on philosophical issues. I know its got nothing to with the book itself, but what are the opinions about ibn rushd on this subject?

Ibn Rushd al-Saghir the author of Bidiyat al-Mujtahid wa Nihayat al-Muqtasid was a Maliki scholar and also a Philosopher. Avoid his philophy but Bidiyat al-Mujtahid is a phenomenal work which is GREAT. I have it in both English and Arabic.

Ibn Rushd al-Saghir was the teacher of Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi who wrote another phenomenal book of comparative fiqh called al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah which contains all of the mashhur in the Maliki school then compares this to other Maliki opinions as well as the opinions of other madhahib.

Ibn Rushd al-Kabir by the way was the grandfather of Ibn Rushd al-Saghir and not a philosopher but one of the greatest Maliki scholars of all time who wrote Muqaddimat Ibn Rushd which gathers the mashhur in the Maliki school in a commentary on al-Mudawwana al-Kubra of Sahnun which records the opinions of his teacher `Abdul Rahman ibn Qassim the best student of Imam Malik (radi Allahu `Anhu) who took them from `Amal Ahlul Madina.

Wassalam.

SirZubair
06-06-2006, 09:06 AM
Insha'allah i would love to contribute to this thread,but i wont do so until the end of next year,once i've completed my Diploma in islamic science.Its best to keep quiet when one doesnt have enough knowledge :)

Wa'salaam.

ozgurislam
06-06-2006, 05:40 PM
A good recommendation.

I heard, Prof. Dr. Wahbah al-Zuhayli, wrote a similar book in nature or was it another shaykh from that part of the world?...

I cant remember properly...

Yes Prof Dr. Wahbah al Zuhayli has a book on the fiqh of 4 madhabs, the title is: el-Fikqu'l-Islami ve Edilletuh

This book is fully into Turkish translated in 10 volumes ( the title has been changed into : Islami Fikhi Ansiklopedesi which means Encyclopedy of Islamic Fiqh)


Its a mashallah work by the Syrian alim.


Was salaam