What madhab to belong

[Adamu Adaji]

Assalamu Alaikum,

Though it is true that muslims stick to different madhabs, this is not really the best as we can all come together under one madhab which is the madhab chosen for us by Allah in the Qurán when He said,''Indeed in the messenger of Allah you find the best example''. This madhab is adhering to what has been establish as the sunnah of the prophet(saw).

I am glad that sunni forum permits that one may not choose among the madhab before registering as a member. Hence, the provision of 'none' among the options provided.

New muslims should not get worried that they do not have a madhab or do not know which one to belong to. As muslims, we all strive to follow the examples laid down by the prophet(saw) and any muslim blessed with knowledge will agree to this. So let's all be brothers and sisters under the sunnah. For we are not going to be divided to various madhab in Al-jannah(paradise). May Allah rewad us all with Al-jannan(paradise).

[sahih-baba]

salam
i disagree with you.
if muslims stick to 1 of the 4 madhhabs, that is step 1 towards unity.
step 2 is not being fanatic in that madhhab, that is, not allowing any other opinions for people...

for example, the hanafi madhhab says we must grow our beards to a fist length.
other madhhabs don't specify any length. so rather than saying to muslims, you must grow your beard fist length, i think it is better to say, you must not shave your beard.

madhhabs don't cause disunity, except if applied fanatically.

not following madhhabs causes disunity, because everyone can say something new.
for example, the thigh is not considered part of 'awrah!!!
all madhhabs say it is part of 'awrah but this has been said by someone who discourages madhhab!

wallahu a'lam wassalam

[Nasir B.]

I disagree also. The madhahib are necessary for understanding the Qur'an and Sunna; they can't be read simply at face value. Qur'an and Sunna vs. the madhahib is a false dichotomy anyway; the substance of the madhahib are Qur'an and Sunna, and to state otherwise is to imply that fiqh is arbitrary.

[Adamu Adaji]

Assalamu alaikum,

Why i view both replies as wonderful contribution, i'll like to put it through to my dear brothers that for one not to follow his madhab on a particular issue means that he is very convinced that the opinion of his madhab on the issue does not have very sound proof from the sunnah.

All madhab rely on two sources for their verdicts the Qurán & the sunnah. on issues they do not have information based on the limitations at that time then they used ijtihad. If we have same information as they do, then we are to follow their opinions because they are more knowledgeable. But in cases where we have authentic ahadith to disagree with their opinion, we have no choice than to follow what is in the sunnah of the prophet.

Though my brother discouraged being fanatical in a madhab, i guess this is a strong point to ponder on. If we accept verdicts based on convinction that it is closest or proven in the sunnah and not because it is the opinion in a particular madhab, then this will go a long way in re-directing us back to our model, the prophet (saw) and we will belong to no other madhab than the madhab of the prophet(saw).


We will also agree that the scholars of all madhabs would not have differed if they had all collected same ahadith or if all agreed that particular ahadith are weak and others are authentic.

If someone is saying that the thigh is not part of the awrah, let him simply tell us an instant were the prophet(saw) casually put on a short that doesn't cover up to his knee and walked the streets of Makkah or Medina. While people can air their various opinions, the onus is on us to demand for proofs. and such proofs should be tracable to authentic collections.


With due respect to all scholars of madhabs, none claimed to be all knowing or to have collected all the authentic ahadith. they did their best in collecting as much ahadith as possible but the limitations were there. we are quite fortunate to have so many information at our finger tips. you wont have to travel far to obtain all volumes of sahih Bukhari for instsnce. this was not possible then. one has to travel far just to collect a single hadith or to verify its authenticity. it was tedious and we musn't overlook the limitations of those days.

The imams never refused to follow the sunnah. the simply did ijtihad where they hadn't collected ahadith on issues.

[Nasir B.]

Wa 'alaykum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

You're oversimplifying the issue. Fiqh is not just a matter of finding sound ahadith; and a muhaddith is not the same as a faqih. They're two different sciences. You seem to suggest that differences between the fuqaha are based on their relative ignorance of the Sunna, and they would be unanimous on every point if they would only refer to Bukhari and Muslim. This is not correct. Fiqh is a system of methodological principles used to refine the understanding of primary sources. The question is not what is or is not revealed and our obligation to follow it, but how to interpret and implement revelation X, when transmitted in form Y, under circumstance Z. Also, we must not underestimate the significance of differences amongst the Companions, radhi Allahu 'anhum. If I had ibn 'Umar on one hand and ibn 'Abbas on the other, how much sense would it make to ascribe the differences between them to being ignorant of the Sunna? None whatsoever. The fact is, interpretive and methodological pluralism is the reality of our religion; and ignorance of a hadith is probably the last reason in this universe that one faqih would differ from another.

[sahih-baba]

salam, brother adamu,

the arguments about having easy access to collections of ahadith now unlike before are weak.

the man who said that the thigh is not 'awra lives in our time, a time of easy access to ahadith and yet he did not know the sahih ahadith saying that the thigh is 'awra, whereas the imams of fiqh in history knew all the important ahadith and were correct in their ijtihad that the thigh is 'awra.

ppl who claim to be doing some new ijtihad today -as if we need ijtihad on matters which are already settled- are clearly flawed their shortcomings are many!

perhaps we need ijtihad on modern issues, but i really can't understand why ppl are doing "ijtihad" on how we should pray, move our fingers in tashahhud etc

what a waste of time if ulema have agreed on points for centuries and then modern cowboys pop up and challenge them.

wassalam
______

[fnaeem]

read the difference of imams. adaji before coming back and posting more.
its available from whitethreadpress in US and if you are in Pak, gimme your mailing address and I will personally mail you a copy.

jazakAllah khair

[Adamu Adaji]

Assalamu alaikum,

Brother fnaeem, here is my E-mail.

adamsdaji1423@yahoo.com

[Adamu Adaji]

Assalamu alaikum Brother Sahih Baba,

Even if the man that says the thigh is not part of the awrah still lives, like i pointed out,people are free to air their opinions. what we are after is which opinion is backed up with proof. since we have our references, we quickly rush back to them to acertain whether such opinions are correct.

If for instance, one wants to use an authentic hadith that the prophet's(saw) thigh was exposed during a battle to prove that the thigh is not part of the awrah, then he has to consider the circumstance if all other times the prophet(saw) covered his thigh and the companions followed suit.

[Pr1nce]

The madhabs are, in reality, a mercy for the ummah

[seekeroftruth]

"Humilty is the outcome of knowledge" a saying of our Imam Ali.

I hope we reflect that in our 'learning and our teaching'. If that is not happening, then either what we are learning is not working, or how we are learning or even for what reason we are learning.

As many ulama echoe the saying of Imam Shafi 'The more we learn, we relazie the less we know'.

Welcome to the forum Adamu, i would highly suggest you do more research into this aspect, by using the search feature here and also by reading various sources that we have, as we have become 'instant internet' students.

Its such a sad fact, that some of us, say things without learning anything or even sitting with ulama, and we have this 'fake' pretence we know something or we reply with such confidence.

May Allah make us all students of the teachers, that link back to our teacher, ameen. May Allah make us learn what is beneficial and what will lead us further close to Him with humilty, ameen.

[Yahya]

what we are after is which opinion is backed up with proof. since we have our references, we quickly rush back to them to acertain whether such opinions are correct.

Mashaa' Allah. This is a beautiful statement. This is precisely why we have madhhabs. They ARE the opinions that are backed up with proof.



I have a question for you....

If you saw two hadiths that seem to contradict each other, what would you do?

For example, 21 different Sahaba narrated that the basmalah MUST be recited as part of al-Fatihah while in Salat. But Imam Muslim narrates from Anas bin Malik that Rasoolullah :saw: and Abu Bakr and Umar did not do that. And Imam al-Bukhari narrates from Anas bin Malik a slightly different wording that is somewhat ambiguous as to what he meant.

So, if you have 21 ahadith on one hand, and on the other hand you have one hadith that has two narrations that do not necessarily agree, how would you determine which is "correct?" How would you determine which opinion is "backed up by proof?"

[Assaalik]

Assalaamu 'alaikum

What he does is follow his hawa onto his lofty plateau that is situated above the fire only he doesn't realize that because he is blinded by his supreme capabilities in deciphering the mistakes of those he deems his peer.

Wa salam

[Nasir B.]

New muslims should not get worried that they do not have a madhab or do not know which one to belong to.This is a very important issue that born Muslims should keep in mind when dealing with new converts. I remember when I first became Muslim in college. One time, an Afghani brother, three Bosnian sisters, and myself were getting ready to pray in the MSA meeting room. As we were taking off our shoes, the brother looks back at the sisters and asks them, "How do you want to do this? Are you all Hanafi?". They replied affirmatively, said they would wait for us to finish, and left the room. I was stuck in the middle wondering to myself, "What's a Hanafi? Some kind of sect?" When I asked him about it he told me it didn't matter.

These types of episodes can be confusing for new Muslims, and makes us particularly susceptible to Salafi propaganda. You'll find that most African-American Muslims like myself fall somewhere between the W.D. Muhammad network of masajid and the "da'wat as-salafiyya". Neither one of them really recognize madhahib. Inadequate educational materials that represent mainstream tradition equals underexposure, and underexposure equals misunderstandings of fiqh positions that immigrant Muslims mostly take for granted and many times dogmatically impose on converts who don't know what's what. This is exactly where "The Da'wa" comes along with the mantra of "Qur'an and Sunna", and has converts who've been Muslim for a month or two going to the masjid and wondering why nobody's praying like the Prophet, salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam. The time is long overdue for some good introductory literature on what a madhhab is for the new convert audience.

[loveProphet]

:ws:

Instead of going in circles, brother Adamu can you see this link and read the articles there:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10524

:ws:

[MaiCarInMtl]

This is a very important issue that born Muslims should keep in mind when dealing with new converts. I remember when I first became Muslim in college. One time, an Afghani brother, three Bosnian sisters, and myself were getting ready to pray in the MSA meeting room. As we were taking off our shoes, the brother looks back at the sisters and asks them, "How do you want to do this? Are you all Hanafi?". They replied affirmatively, said they would wait for us to finish, and left the room. I was stuck in the middle wondering to myself, "What's a Hanafi? Some kind of sect?" When I asked him about it he told me it didn't matter.

These types of episodes can be confusing for new Muslims, and makes us particularly susceptible to Salafi propaganda. You'll find that most African-American Muslims like myself fall somewhere between the W.D. Muhammad network of masajid and the "da'wat as-salafiyya". Neither one of them really recognize madhahib. Inadequate educational materials that represent mainstream tradition equals underexposure, and underexposure equals misunderstandings of fiqh positions that immigrant Muslims mostly take for granted and many times dogmatically impose on converts who don't know what's what. This is exactly where "The Da'wa" comes along with the mantra of "Qur'an and Sunna", and has converts who've been Muslim for a month or two going to the masjid and wondering why nobody's praying like the Prophet, salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam. The time is long overdue for some good introductory literature on what a madhhab is for the new convert audience.
As someone doing some personal spiritual research into this religion, I only came across the concept of madh'hab about 2 monts ago (and I've been reading on various sites and in some books for 8-10 months now).

Is there a resource which points out the main differences and similarities between the different madh'habs? I'd very much like to know what the differences are (in teachings, prayers, etc).

Shukran for any info one might be able to provide.

[Jumile]

Is there a resource which points out the main differences and similarities between the different madh'habs? I'd very much like to know what the differences are (in teachings, prayers, etc).
You and me both. :confused:

I've been searching high and low for something like a comparison table, or short comparative blurb on both. But all I've found are lengthy texts telling me what this school is all about, or what that school is all about.

I think I understand why there's little comparative information... the majority of the Ummah are born into their madhab so, unless there's exceptional need to change, most stay within the same school of fiqh (especially for Arabic countries that seem to have a major and a minor school). And that's probably reinforced by their community, too - if you're born into it, the masjid you attend from childhood is probably the same madhab, and so on. What need for comparisons and easy-to-grok summaries?

So until some revert-conscious scholar or knowledgeable Muslim develops one, it seems that we're stuck with reams of articles and academic journals. :)

[MaiCarInMtl]

You and me both. :confused:

I've been searching high and low for something like a comparison table, or short comparative blurb on both. But all I've found are lengthy texts telling me what this school is all about, or what that school is all about.

I think I understand why there's little comparative information... the majority of the Ummah are born into their madhab so, unless there's exceptional need to change, most stay within the same school of fiqh (especially for Arabic countries that seem to have a major and a minor school). And that's probably reinforced by their community, too - if you're born into it, the masjid you attend from childhood is probably the same madhab, and so on. What need for comparisons and easy-to-grok summaries?

So until some revert-conscious scholar or knowledgeable Muslim develops one, it seems that we're stuck with reams of articles and academic journals. :)
That does make sense, but it is a bit frustrating and confusing for people who are starting off from square one information-wise. I'd ask more people I know questions, but I only know 1 muslim person (he's hanafi, so of course he'll be biased towards his madh'hab) and I am too shy to go to any of my 2 university MSAs, much less a mosque. LOL So I am limited to the internet for the moment (and it seems to not be too cooperative).

[Nasir B.]

As someone doing some personal spiritual research into this religion, I only came across the concept of madh'hab about 2 monts ago (and I've been reading on various sites and in some books for 8-10 months now).

Is there a resource which points out the main differences and similarities between the different madh'habs? I'd very much like to know what the differences are (in teachings, prayers, etc).

Shukran for any info one might be able to provide.I don't know of any English resources that break down the differences between madhahib, whether for laymen or scholars. On that note, most of the scholarly literature on Islam in English (or any other European language) is by Orientalists from a purely anthropological perspective. They're not concerned with practical matters, which is what fiqh is.

As far as the fundamental teachings (usul ad-din), then all Sunnis believe the same things (about God, prophethood, judgement). This is what really counts if you want to learn about Islam. Differences in prayer relate to things such as when to raise the hands, where to place the hands while standing, etc. The differences are relatively negligible, as they do not pertain to fundamental beliefs.


That does make sense, but it is a bit frustrating and confusing for people who are starting off from square one information-wise. I'd ask more people I know questions, but I only know 1 muslim person (he's hanafi, so of course he'll be biased towards his madh'hab) and I am too shy to go to any of my 2 university MSAs, much less a mosque. LOL So I am limited to the internet for the moment (and it seems to not be too cooperative).Like I mentioned in my previous post, most African American Muslims (at least those affiliated with W.D. Muhammad and those either committed to or influenced by "The Salafi Da'wa") are unfamiliar with madhahib (though this is beginning to change as more study abroad in places other than Saudi); and most immigrant Muslims take their madhhab for granted. In other words, you're not going to find anyone with more than a cursory knowledge of a madhhab besides their own. I hope that's not bad news!:lol:

Comparative fiqh is really the preserve of scholars and advanced students.

[MaiCarInMtl]

Salaam Nasir,

Thank you for the info (it's actually reassuring). I'll still keep my eyes and ears open to find out what the differences are, but I won't get too worried about them.

[treo-guy]

MaiCarInMtl and Jumile,

You should purchase and read the book The differences of the Imams by Hazrat Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandhalwi.

http://www.whitethreadpress.com/publications/differences_imams.htm

[Jumile]

You should purchase and read the book The differences of the Imams by Hazrat Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandhalwi.
Jazakallah khair, brother. I see that book is 136 pages - substantially less than some of the online texts I've seen on the topic. I'll definitely look into it.

What would be nice for reverts (such as myself) and "potential Muslims" is a summarised content of a few pages at most. Perhaps like a "Management Summary" overview of a complex technical document. Not that the deeper details aren't important, but rather the summary will allow an easier view into that in-depth text for newcomers, and provide instant understanding of key points.

Or perhaps I've been writing too many complex technical documents in my career, and have had too many managers evangelising the beauty of layman overviews. ;)

[MaiCarInMtl]

MaiCarInMtl and Jumile,

You should purchase and read the book The differences of the Imams by Hazrat Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandhalwi.

http://www.whitethreadpress.com/publications/differences_imams.htm
Salaam Treo-guy,

Thank you for the suggestion. I will check and see if the MSA at one of my universities has the book.

[Jumile]

You should purchase and read the book The differences of the Imams by Hazrat Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandhalwi.
For any UK readers, this book is listed at Amazon UK's Marketplace (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Differences-Imams-Muhammad-Zakariyya/dp/0972835822) (from £10.99) and from here (http://www.islamicgoodsdirect.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/2776) (£5.95).

[Nasir B.]

If you're willing to invest $53.90, there's an excellent 14 CD lecture series by Dr. 'Umar Faruq Abd-Allah titled The Principal Imams and Their Schools. He gives brief biographical sketches and an overview of methodological differences. But again, this series is more from a historical/anthropological perspective rather than actual jurisprudence, as Dr. 'Umar relies on some prominent Orientalists for much of the content. There's a short sample on the Nawawi Foundation website under the "Courses" section.

[Imperium]

as-Salamu Alaykum


I've been searching high and low for something like a comparison table, or short comparative blurb on both. But all I've found are lengthy texts telling me what this school is all about, or what that school is all about.


There's a book called The Mercy in the Difference of the Four Schools of Islamic Law (http://www.onlineislamicstore.com/b8982.html) by Qadi as-Safadi that's been translated by Aisha Bewley, which sounds like the kind of thing you are looking for. Although, it only gives the differences of opinion among each mahdhab and doesn't give the evidence or reason as to how those differences came about.

[abuhajira]

:salam:

I would recommend the book of Hazrat Maulana Zakariya as a starter, and then the book "The Four Imaams" by Abu Zahra.

There is so much in comparing the madhahib, that even not wanting to, one ends up with a volumnous work. In Arabic there is Kitab ul Foqh ala Mazahibil Arbi'a which is in 4 volumes and does a basic work of listing down difference of opinions..

For detailed, there is Fiqh ul Islamia Wa Adilla, which is a much bigger encyclopedia.

:ws:

[Imperium]

There's an excellent lecture, in 7 parts, on You Tube by Maulvi Muhammed Yusaf called Following a Madhab (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aqR7CV0CMB0&feature=PlayList&p=0B3ACDC3E9A911A2&index=6) that's definitely worth watching.

[Adamu Adaji]

Assalamu alaikum Bro Nasir B,

I received a prompt in my E-mail box on 4th of July that you posted a thread requesting to know the the similarities and differences in the teachings of the Imams. I was expecting the thread to be displayed before responding but it seems not to be coming. I guess its as a result of technical hitch. Allah knows best.

As regards the issue, there are alot of similarities between the teachings of the Imams and quite a few differences. Viewing it from a very broad perspective, we cannot help but agree that they were unanimous on major issues. Considering the five pillars of Islam for instance,

Iman (faith)
They all agree to the testimony of faith and all the wordings in it. We also do believe in this and as a matter of fact, this is what makes us muslims.

Sallah (worship)
They do not only agree to this but are also unanimous on the number of compulsory prayers in a day. They also agree to the qiyam (standing), Ruku (bowing), Sujud (prostrating), Jalsa (sitting) and Teslim (salutation).

Zakah
They all agree that Zakah should be given by wealthy.

Siyam (fasting)
None objects to the compulsory fast in the ninth month of the Islamic calender, that is Ramadan. The duration one should fast and also the taking of suhur and iftar are also agreed upon.

Hajj (pilgrimage)
They all agree on where to go for pilgrimage and its timing.

Please recall the hadith in which a man came to the Prophet (s.a.w) to make enquiries about religion and after being told about the pillars and he said, 'By Allah, I'll neither do less nor more.' To this the Prophet (s.a.w) said, 'If he is true to his words, he will enter paradise.'

The diferences set in when we go in-depth into issues and the Imams did their best in their ijtihad and in some cases an Imam may have more information on an issue than the other. They never claimed perfection but encouraged their followers to learn and seek more so as to know which of their opinion falls in line with any established fact from the Prophet (s.a.w) as is evident in this saying of Imam Malik. "Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it."

It is not possible to mention here all there is on this issue but your mind should be at rest that when one follows the truth from the Imams, one is sure to be on the path of the sunnah of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w).

[Adamu Adaji]

Assalamu alaikum,

I guess i was pretty lost somewhere. I didn't get to see all these other threads before posting. This explains why I was wondering where Bro. Nasir's thread was. Hope its understood.

[Nasir B.]

Assalamu alaikum Bro Nasir B,

I received a prompt in my E-mail box on 4th of July that you posted a thread requesting to know the the similarities and differences in the teachings of the Imams. I was expecting the thread to be displayed before responding but it seems not to be coming. I guess its as a result of technical hitch. Allah knows best.

As regards the issue, there are alot of similarities between the teachings of the Imams and quite a few differences. Viewing it from a very broad perspective, we cannot help but agree that they were unanimous on major issues. Considering the five pillars of Islam for instance,

Iman (faith)
They all agree to the testimony of faith and all the wordings in it. We also do believe in this and as a matter of fact, this is what makes us muslims.

Sallah (worship)
They do not only agree to this but are also unanimous on the number of compulsory prayers in a day. They also agree to the qiyam (standing), Ruku (bowing), Sujud (prostrating), Jalsa (sitting) and Teslim (salutation).

Zakah
They all agree that Zakah should be given by wealthy.

Siyam (fasting)
None objects to the compulsory fast in the ninth month of the Islamic calender, that is Ramadan. The duration one should fast and also the taking of suhur and iftar are also agreed upon.

Hajj (pilgrimage)
They all agree on where to go for pilgrimage and its timing.

Please recall the hadith in which a man came to the Prophet (s.a.w) to make enquiries about religion and after being told about the pillars and he said, 'By Allah, I'll neither do less nor more.' To this the Prophet (s.a.w) said, 'If he is true to his words, he will enter paradise.'

The diferences set in when we go in-depth into issues and the Imams did their best in their ijtihad and in some cases an Imam may have more information on an issue than the other. They never claimed perfection but encouraged their followers to learn and seek more so as to know which of their opinion falls in line with any established fact from the Prophet (s.a.w) as is evident in this saying of Imam Malik. "Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it."

It is not possible to mention here all there is on this issue but your mind should be at rest that when one follows the truth from the Imams, one is sure to be on the path of the sunnah of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w).

Wa 'alaykum as-salamu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

I appreciate the answer, but it was MaiCarInMtl that was asking, not me.:)