Are salaafis out the fold of Islam?

[Harris Ibn Qureshi]

Asalaam Alaikum


Iam a new member on these boards and i would really appreciate it if someone can answer my questions jazakallah khair...

I have a few questions to ask..

1) IS their a scholar who monitors these boards to prevent misinfo to be given out?

2) Are Salafis out the fold of islam? Mufti Embrahim Desai has conflicting fatwaas on salaafis. He says in one fatwaa their out the fold of islam and in another one he says they are in the fold of islam?

3) What is Mufti Taqi usmani's position on Salaafis?

4) What is Muft muhammed Ibn Adam position on Salaafis?

5) I read in sunnipath.com that sheikh ibn Tamiyah is out the fold of islam, Mufti Ebrahim desai said he was a great scholar in the fold of islam, but had some beleifs contrary to the schoalrs of his time, but was able to beleif in what he did because he was a scholar himself.. Does anyone know the position of Mufti Taqi usmanii and Mufti muhammed ibn adam toward Sheikh Tamiya.?

6) Why do Sunnipath.com have probs with Sheikh Ibn Tamiya? Does anyone know?

[Haamilul Qur'aan]

:salam:



1) IS their a scholar who monitors these boards to prevent misinfo to be given out?

:alhamd: the 'Ulema of sunniforum are:

Maulana Ziad (of eat-halal.com. (http://www.eat-halal.com))

Mufti Yusuf Mullan (of the Shariah Program (http://www.shariahprogram.ca/) )

Maulana Nazim Mangera (of Sunnipath (http://www.sunnipath.com))

Maulana Zain (student of Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam)

...and we also have contact with Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam.

:salam:

[abdul518ca]

Where did you read on SunniPath that Ibn Taymiya is out of the fold of Islam? He was one of the greatest Hanbali Mujtahids ever.

Mufti Adam doesn't think too highly of Salafis, writes 'semi-refutation'. Like doesn't use no harsh language, but speaks against their beliefs and actions.

Mufti Taqi is not very anti-Salafi, but he has written books on their false beliefs. Like "The Legal Status of Following a Madhab" is probably the best book written by a cotemporary scholar.

*By saying 'anti-', you are talking about someone like Hisham Kabbani who just JUMPS at the Salafis. But Mufti Adam, Mufti Taqi use easy language, etc.

[abdul518ca]

I think you meant 'out of the fold of the Ahl-e-Sunnah', rather than 'out of the fold of Islam' becuase Mufti Ebrahim has never said Salafis are not Muslims. In one Fatwa, he says 'there beliefs are consistent to that of the Ahl-e-Sunnah', while in another Fatwa he says their beliefs are 'contrary to the Ahl-e-Sunnah'. So yeah, there's a conflict; someone should e-mail him about it.

[abdul518ca]

If you go through the other Fatwas on ask-imam.com, you can see that Mufti Ebrahim Desai is against the Salafis. For example, in no. 11912 he tells a person to go to Hanafi Mosque so as the avoid the influence of the Salafis.

"...Salafis are Muslims but they are misled in not making Taqleed (following) of one particular Imaam in Fiqh. Some of their Aqaaid and beliefs are questionable..."

[Azudud Dawlah]

I don't think Salafis are out of the fold of Islam I just became a Muslim
thanks to the help of my brother who has been a Salafi for five years he has also helped my three other brothers to become Muslims. I was the last brother to become a Muslim.

My famliy is Christian all my brothers was Christian now we are all Muslims. All the Salafis I know and I know alot of them are good Muslims and in my view are in the fold of Islam.

I am still not sure if I am going to be a Salafi I do go to a Salafi Masjid but thats because all my brother are Salafis. I don't think my Brothers would be very happy if I did not go the Masjid with them.

[Harris Ibn Qureshi]

Asalaam Alaikum

Jazakallah khair for ur answers..

Yeah i meant Ahl-e-Sunnah, but i was under the impression that ahl-e-sunnah are sunnis who follow the true islam. Whoever follows ahl-e-sunnah are true muslims.

Do your or anyone have any online resources to Mufti embrahim desai, Muft Ibn Adam, Muft Taqi usman or sh Nuh books on Salaafis?

Sh Nuh has said that Sheikh Ibn Tamiya is out of the fold of Ahl-e-Sunnah, but like i said before, this basically means islam (correct me if i am wrong)..

Also i have heard the Abu Yusuf Riyadh ul-haq is salaafi, but i could swear he follows the deoband school of thought.. Anyone know about Shaikh abu Yusuf Riyadh ul-haq??

[eat-halal guy]

Also i have heard the Abu Yusuf Riyadh ul-haq is salaafi, but i could swear he follows the deoband school of thought.. Anyone know about Shaikh abu Yusuf Riyadh ul-haq??


:salam:

Met him, spoke to him; he's come to my house; came to our madrasa to take our final exam in 1997. He's not a salafi.

In fact, his book "The Salah of a Believer in the Quran and Sunnah" proves the Hanafi method of Salat. He actually wrote it on the recommendation of my Maulana (I believe).

He is a graduate of Darul Uloom Al-Arabiya Al-Islamiya, Bury, UK (a purely Hanafi madrasa).

[Harris Ibn Qureshi]

Eat-halal guy, I am from Montreal,Quebec and I want to know if their are any schools that teach islam part-time or for the summer.. I went to your website and i see ur headquarters is in Toronto. Does your institution offer any islamic courses for the summer etc?

[eat-halal guy]

Eat-halal guy, I am from Montreal,Quebec and I want to know if their are any schools that teach islam part-time or for the summer.. I went to your website and i see ur headquarters is in Toronto. Does your institution offer any islamic courses for the summer etc?


Cool. I can give you more info :insh: ; just join the brothers group (click on User CP > Miscellaneous > Group Memberships and apply for membership to brother's section) and there, I'll give you all my contact info there and we can discuss it....or just start another thread in General Islam, if you want.

I'd rather not answer here as it'd take the dicussion off track.

:jazak:. Hope to hear from you soon.

[Abu Usama]

Sh Nuh has said that Sheikh Ibn Tamiya is out of the fold of Ahl-e-Sunnah, but like i said before, this basically means islam (correct me if i am wrong)..

You're wrong.

[Yusuf]

You're wrong.

Yeh, I remember Shaykh Nuh saying something like, "Ibn Taymiyyah had anthropormorphic beliefs. Now, I wouldnt call those with such beliefs kafir, but just plain stupid."-to the nearest meaning. :)

[GenN]

Assalmu alaykum,

Mufti Ibrahim desai does NOT have conflicting views. You only need to look at the time stamp of his fataawa and you'll realise. He used to think that they were ahlul sunnah (hence his old fatawaa) but if you look at all the recent answers he has given, he states they are out of the fold of Ahlul sunnah. Hence it is not "conflicting views" but a change of view, which he probably had after looking more deeper into their beliefs, that they are not ahlul sunnah.

[GenN]

and by the way for furtehr info on the salafis, you will want to visit the forums at 222.htspub.com. they've got tons of detailed answers on salafis.

[Azzam]

Assalam Alaikum Ya Harris and whoever is concerned,

I havent been here in a while and I will come less as I am very busy. However, if you ask a certain people something then they will give you an answer from their perspective.

This is the problem. So ask them ask others as well. Ask salafis themselves.

I do not recommend that hanbali site as some of the information was wrong especially about the Mujahideen.

It is the habit of certain people to call others anthropomorphists because they do not follow the same aqeedah school as them.

For instance, on the hanbali site the brother there mentions the names of known salafi scholars and says they are okay and then attacks others. Even though they have the same Aqeedah. Therefore, I want to and I have asked before,

What does this owner of that site know exactly and how does he know Sheikh Hamoud bin Al Uqla, Sheikh Omar Abdur Rahmaan, Sheikh Ibn Jibreen, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Ibraheem, Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah, Sheikh Abdur Rahman As Sadi etc... and some others.

anyway if you need anything to know then let me know.

[Mossy]

Sheikh bin Bayyah has "salafi" aqeedah?

[Azzam]

Sheikh bin Bayyah has "salafi" aqeedah?

I know brothers close to him. He himself stated that he follows what many would term "Hanbali Aqeedah" even though in originality he studied the Ashari Aqeedah as most of the Mauritanians are of this aqeedah. He has read the works of Ibn Taymiyyah and other scholars and appreciates them to the degree that he would never accuse Ibn Taymiyyah of anthropomorphism.

Whatever you need to know I will ask and find out about him. He is not salafi, I think he was part of the ikhwan movement though.

[abdul518ca]

Salafis are very much our brothers, but they just don't thave the 'traditional' approach like we do. We shouldn't *hate* them, our approach should be to *not love them so much*.

Alot of people have become Muslim or pracitising Muslims through their works. But almost all those who do become Salafis at the start, after a little while, become Traditionalists.

I was a Salafi before also, then a brother told me to change, and that brother was ALSO an ex-Salafi.

Regarding Ibn Taymiya, almost everyone calls him 'Imam Ibn Taymiya'. In the Albani: Unveiled aricles, the author refers to him as "Imam Taqi-ud-Din Ibn Taymiya". Mufti Adam, on Daruliftaa.org refers to him as 'Imam Ibn Taymiya'. Mufti Ebrahim Desai calls him 'Hafidh Taqi-ud-Din Ibn Taymiya'.

I do not think we should be calling Ibn Taymiya as out of the fold of the Ahl-e-Sunnah.

[Harris Ibn Qureshi]

Asalaam alaikum

Sheikh of Hadith Ibn Tamiyah was a great scholar and no one can dispute that. However, my question was regarding why does sufis such as Sh Nuh keller say his beleifs were anthropomorphism?

And i agree we shouldn't hate on Salafees cause they have the same Aqeeda as us (correct me if iam wrong), however they differ on the matter of the Kalam.... But the Salaafis we should stay way from are the Tafirist...

[GenN]

I do not think we should be calling Ibn Taymiya as out of the fold of the Ahl-e-Sunnah.

NO we should not in my view also. I think he was a scholar of ahlul sunnah.

So this then begs the question that if Ibn Taymiyah is classified as ahlul sunnah, then why are salafis of today not classified as ahlul sunnah by the majority of ahlul sunnah?

Well first of all we know that claims are nothing without actual substance. The salafis may claim to follow ibn taymiyah, and whilst they undoubtdly do in many issues, they also reject much of his techings such as for example his teachings on tasawuf.


Anyway the best way I have seen it explained is along the lines of

"ibn taymiyah is from amongst the ahlul sunnah becaseu he had a few mistakes, and diverged in a few issues with the jamhoor, however this would not take him out of the fold of ahlul sunnah. however the salafiyah is based upon those mistakes of his"

So by basing themselves on his mistakes (which has made them take those mistakes a step further) they have left the folds of ahlul sunnah. And as far as I am aware most of the ahlul sunnah (wheteher from pakistan, mid east and africa, whatever the madhab) have classified them as out of the fold of ahlul sunnah. Th only notable ulema that still are keeping them within the fold of ahlul sunnah are those of deoband (although they are fast changing opinion and classifing them out of ahlul sunnah also, and a prime example can be seen in Mufti Ibrahim desai).

and Allah knows best.

[Abdur_Rahman]

The muslims who call to the dawah of the salaf have issues (from what I know) is in regards to fiqh (and yes possibly some horror stories of adab)

Allahu alim, I've me some salafi who say that some of the sufi's are out the fold of islam too, so therefore from each others's point of view everyone for some reason or another is out of the fold of islam, if you don't concur to their calling.

Allahu alim

[GenN]

Asalaam alaikum

cause they have the same Aqeeda as us (correct me if iam wrong)

the aqeedah Is different in quite a number of issues. This is why many of the scholars do not classify them as ahlul sunnah. if the aqeedah was the same, there would be no problem (and they would still be ahlul sunnah), as taqleed is only a side issue.

and Allah knows best.

[Abdur_Rahman]

Salafis are very much our brothers, but they just don't thave the 'traditional' approach like we do. We shouldn't *hate* them, our approach should be to *not love them so much*.

Isn't that like a oxymoron, they're your brothers in deen but don't show any love towards them? (or a lack of a better statement~~ not to love them so much?)

[Harris Ibn Qureshi]

Anyone have a link that compares the aqeeda of the salaafis and the hanafis or the followers of the 4 madhabs???

[Abdur_Rahman]

Anyone have a link that compares the aqeeda of the salaafis and the hanafis or the followers of the 4 madhabs???
Now from which side of the argument are you looking for?
From here?

OneGroupofSalafiyahAqidah (http://www.******************.com/sps/sp.cfm?secID=AQD&loadpage=displaysection.cfm)

or

Munajiid (http://www.*************/)

or

LivingIslam (http://www.abc.se/~m9783/)

Take your pick :)

[Azzam]

We follow the aqeedah of the upright ulema and the ulema of the Mujahideen not the aqeedah of these salafi claimers at spubs. May Allah guide them and destroy their corruption and love for ahlus saud.

Go online and if you know arabic it will help to see the Aqeedah of the ulema such as Sheikh Hamoud bin Uqla, Sheikh Naasir Ulwan, Sheikh Abu Muhammad Al Maqdisi and others.

As I said earlier some people like to attack salafis as anthropomorphists yet they respect Ahmad bin Hanbal. Those that claim that the salafis are anthropomorphists must call Ibn Taymiyyah and Ahmad bin Hanbal the same because they follow them.

This is what I heard from the ulema, those that say otherwise divide Ibn Taymiyyah away from the Aqeedah from Ahmad bin Hanbal but then others label salafis away from the aqeedah of Ibn Taymiyyah.

The principle is and I am telling you now. Is to leave the attributes of Allah as they are and to believe in them without asking how. There is no tashbeeh here. So if I am an anthropomorphist then please show me.

[Abdur_Rahman]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24988&postcount=13

:salam: I brought this up earlier about agendas

[Azzam]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24988&postcount=13

:salam: I brought this up earlier about agendas


I agree with you about people and their agenda.

People just like to attack and so on.

That is why once in the presence of the blessed sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah, someone asked him when the salafi/sufi feud will end.

He answered: "When they want to end it."

[faqir]

We follow the aqeedah of the upright ulema and the ulema of the Mujahideen not the aqeedah of these salafi claimers at spubs. May Allah guide them and destroy their corruption and love for ahlus saud.

Go online and if you know arabic it will help to see the Aqeedah of the ulema such as Sheikh Hamoud bin Uqla, Sheikh Naasir Ulwan, Sheikh Abu Muhammad Al Maqdisi and others.

As I said earlier some people like to attack salafis as anthropomorphists yet they respect Ahmad bin Hanbal. Those that claim that the salafis are anthropomorphists must call Ibn Taymiyyah and Ahmad bin Hanbal the same because they follow them.

This is what I heard from the ulema, those that say otherwise divide Ibn Taymiyyah away from the Aqeedah from Ahmad bin Hanbal but then others label salafis away from the aqeedah of Ibn Taymiyyah.

The principle is and I am telling you now. Is to leave the attributes of Allah as they are and to believe in them without asking how. There is no tashbeeh here. So if I am an anthropomorphist then please show me.



Akhi, there is some essential reading for you here:


http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/masudq5.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/littlk.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ibntaymiyya.htm

[abdul518ca]

By saying 'we should not love them so much', I meant that we shouldn't be so open to them. Just say Salam to them, ask about health etc, don't go about asking them how to pray or say 'brother, do you know how to calculate Zakat?'. I'm against the practise of speaking openly against them, just take him to the side and tell him about the Ahl-e-Sunnah, just like a brother did to me. He told me about the ways of the Ahl-e-Sunnah, and after 2-3 weeks I left the Salafi cult.

By saying that Ibn Taymiya was out of the fold of the Ahl-e-Sunnah, no good will be done to us, so why debate about him?

Secondly, I don't think he erred in anything other than his Aqeedah. For example, he spoke very highly of Sufis. The Salafis ignore him in this issue. He said MAWLID IS PERMISSABLE, and it's even Mustahabb. The Salafis ignore him in this issue. He said that Taraweeh is 20 raka'at. The Salafis ignore him in this issue. There are many many more issues.

Mufti Adam, talking about the issue of Tawassul, said that "Imam Ibn Taymiya, despite having such great knowledge, chose to have an opinion different from the consesus of the Ummah". He did not say he was wrong, but just said his opinion was different from most scholar's.

[Abdur_Rahman]

Akhi, there is some essential reading for you here:


http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/masudq5.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/littlk.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ibntaymiyya.htm
:salam:

As I stated other muslims will give you various 'opinions' about certain people, likewise it'll be the same for an alim to refute these claims about others, just like you would easily ignore an alim who would say something wrong about sufism. Therefore everyone has sometype of arrogance in them akhi.


By saying 'we should not love them so much', I meant that we shouldn't be so open to them. Just say Salam to them, ask about health etc, don't go about asking them how to pray or say 'brother, do you know how to calculate Zakat?'. I'm against the practise of speaking openly against them, just take him to the side and tell him about the Ahl-e-Sunnah, just like a brother did to me. He told me about the ways of the Ahl-e-Sunnah, and after 2-3 weeks I left the Salafi cult.
:alhamd: I've met a brother who adhered to the maliki fiqh, and he was approached by a brother who thought he knew what he was talking about? And therefore the argument ended ugly, however I took the time out to still talk to the brother after their debate, and he was still very cordial towards me and some other brothers who didn't treat him differently, my appraoch is that he is still my brother in faith, but we just have different understanding when it comes to certain aspects in deen. It's truly sad a pathetic that we as muslims lack the character but increasing in arrogance. :( We as muslims have a long way to go, in order to truly better ourselves.

By saying that Ibn Taymiya was out of the fold of the Ahl-e-Sunnah, no good will be done to us, so why debate about him?
Exactly it's very hard for some people to let it go and move on with life, make dua for him to receive Mercy from Allah, I don't think we can do that can we?
:rolleyes:

Secondly, I don't think he erred in anything other than his Aqeedah. For example, he spoke very highly of Sufis. The Salafis ignore him in this issue. He said MAWLID IS PERMISSABLE, and it's even Mustahabb. The Salafis ignore him in this issue. That is true, as I stated earlier about agendas and such, and also how he Ibn taymiyah (rahimallah) possibly changed his stance on issues too. In the book Al-Ubudiyah he mentioned about some of the Sufi Ulema.
Secondly I've met other muslims who speak bad about him and will quote a fatawa from him to support their claim about sufism (see the picture :rolleyes: )


He said that Taraweeh is 20 raka'at. The Salafis ignore him in this issue. There are many many more issues. O.K. he has his opinion based upon a certain evidence, some say 8 rakat from Aisha (radiallahu anha) :alhamd: I'm follow that opinion from the hadith, but now if someone wants to refer to the 20 rakat from Umar (radiallahu anh), that is on them.
:subh: people can't we move on, why are the muslims still arguing about issues of taraweeh?

Mufti Adam, talking about the issue of Tawassul, said that "Imam Ibn Taymiya, despite having such great knowledge, chose to have an opinion different from the consesus of the Ummah". He did not say he was wrong, but just said his opinion was different from most scholar's.
Allahu Akbar

Can't we just take that approach?

[Azzam]

Akhi, there is some essential reading for you here:


http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/masudq5.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/littlk.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ibntaymiyya.htm

I do not follow [addition: Shaikh] Nuh keller. My good friend was his neighbour in Jordan.

Anyway, since I do not follow what [addition: Shaikh] Nuh Keller I do not care for the links, because people can say what they I like I do not care.

The Kuffar say many things, I do not care and others as well.

Now here is what I believe.

I believe in Allah's attributes as they are. With NO likeness to creation in any form or shape or significance or extent. NOTHING we do not make a likeness for Allah in any way.

Allah is free from this. Anyone who claims this must go into my heart and pull it out and show where I would believe in this and show where others do as well. Otherwise, and this is serious you are accusing people of such and the consequences of wrong accusations is serious.

We do not go into the attributes to explain them away. We leave them as Imam Malik said to not ask about the "how".

All of the brothers who follow the salafi manhaj believe in this. I have not come across ONE brother from any type of salafi who says that Allah's hand is like ours and etc...

There are people who are anthropomorphists and their anthropomorphists is done openly, they do not hide it. Speak to them about it. Yet people accuse others especially when they say they do not do this and go on and on about it, without any knowledge.

However, some stupid salafis when they go around speaking to people may not be able to explain this clearly for some reason, or since many are converts do not follow know.

This is because when the attributes are left alone, the first thought in the head that comes is something similar to a human, because that is what our brain knows. Whatever, we dont know our brain tries to comprehend it to what it can. So hand means hand like ours in our brain. This is what happens to some people when they think about it too much without knowledge.

The same goes for heaven or hell. We try to comprehend it with something our mind is used to. But it is something that is incapable of comprehending at this stage of our life.

But this is not to be followed, rather rejected by our belief that such cannot happen to Allah. Some of the people who went into the meanings wanted to remove this default feeling, that is why they did.

BUT we say Allah is free from such horror to ascribe a body to Him. Be he glorified. Nothing is like him or comparable to him.

Yet some people make it their business to accuse others, and leave those who actually claim and proud to be anthropomorphists. There are people who are not salafi who actually proudly claim and believe that Allah has a hand like ours and a face etc....

Language also plays an important part in this. It is unfair to quote things about people without first learning about the context of those rulings.

I could do the same thing and go around quoting famous sufis whose sayings appear like shirk. Yet you will right away tell me "No, that is not what they meant." Why are one group of people exempt from criticism on this base and others accused.

About Taraweeh

There are people who say that taraweeh is 11 rakaats with witr included.

Rather the common number is 23 with witr as stated by the great ulema. I never followed the 11 rakaat rule, neither do many people I know. Some do though, so let them.

about Albani's book

Sheikh Albani made a famous book about salah. Not every salafi believes in this book, rather see Sheikh At Tuwayjiri's refutation of this book (not all of it) but parts of it that Albani may Allah have mercy on him may have erred on.

Other issues of Albani and hadith this is true, he made mistakes in hadith, the man is a human not an angel. I would hope he makes mistakes.

about adab

Seriously people should reconsider themselves. Yes some salafis have issues with this but so does everyone.

I have encountered jamatis when there have been disagreements swear with "F-words" and ofcourse the barelwis in India doing takfir on the deobandis and giving them death threats.

Even once an elder told him Tahir ul Qadri said something along the lines "Anyone who claims meelad is wrong, is an adulterer and his or her children are haram beings."

This problem goes around many groups not just one group. I can mention many stories of barelwis and this attitude.

[Abdur_Rahman]

I do not follow [addition: Shaikh] Nuh keller. My good friend was his neighbour in Jordan.

Anyway, since I do not follow what [addition: Shaikh] Nuh Keller I do not care for the links, because people can say what they I like I do not care.

The Kuffar say many things, I do not care and others as well.

Now here is what I believe.

I believe in Allah's attributes as they are. With NO likeness to creation in any form or shape or significance or extent. NOTHING we do not make a likeness for Allah in any way.

Allah is free from this. Anyone who claims this must go into my heart and pull it out and show where I would believe in this and show where others do as well. Otherwise, and this is serious you are accusing people of such and the consequences of wrong accusations is serious.

We do not go into the attributes to explain them away. We leave them as Imam Malik said to not ask about the "how".

All of the brothers who follow the salafi manhaj believe in this. I have not come across ONE brother from any type of salafi who says that Allah's hand is like ours and etc...

There are people who are anthropomorphists and their anthropomorphists is done openly, they do not hide it. Speak to them about it. Yet people accuse others especially when they say they do not do this and go on and on about it, without any knowledge.

However, some stupid salafis when they go around speaking to people may not be able to explain this clearly for some reason, or since many are converts do not follow know.

This is because when the attributes are left alone, the first thought in the head that comes is something similar to a human, because that is what our brain knows. Whatever, we dont know our brain tries to comprehend it to what it can. So hand means hand like ours in our brain. This is what happens to some people when they think about it too much without knowledge.

The same goes for heaven or hell. We try to comprehend it with something our mind is used to. But it is something that is incapable of comprehending at this stage of our life.

But this is not to be followed, rather rejected by our belief that such cannot happen to Allah. Some of the people who went into the meanings wanted to remove this default feeling, that is why they did.

BUT we say Allah is free from such horror to ascribe a body to Him. Be he glorified. Nothing is like him or comparable to him.

Yet some people make it their business to accuse others, and leave those who actually claim and proud to be anthropomorphists. There are people who are not salafi who actually proudly claim and believe that Allah has a hand like ours and a face etc....

Language also plays an important part in this. It is unfair to quote things about people without first learning about the context of those rulings.

I could do the same thing and go around quoting famous sufis whose sayings appear like shirk. Yet you will right away tell me "No, that is not what they meant." Why are one group of people exempt from criticism on this base and others accused.

About Taraweeh

There are people who say that taraweeh is 11 rakaats with witr included.

Rather the common number is 23 with witr as stated by the great ulema. I never followed the 11 rakaat rule, neither do many people I know. Some do though, so let them.

about Albani's book

Sheikh Albani made a famous book about salah. Not every salafi believes in this book, rather see Sheikh At Tuwayjiri's refutation of this book (not all of it) but parts of it that Albani may Allah have mercy on him may have erred on.

Other issues of Albani and hadith this is true, he made mistakes in hadith, the man is a human not an angel. I would hope he makes mistakes.

about adab

Seriously people should reconsider themselves. Yes some salafis have issues with this but so does everyone.

I have encountered jamatis when there have been disagreements swear with "F-words" and ofcourse the barelwis in India doing takfir on the deobandis and giving them death threats.

Even once an elder told him Tahir ul Qadri said something along the lines "Anyone who claims meelad is wrong, is an adulterer and his or her children are haram beings."

This problem goes around many groups not just one group. I can mention many stories of barelwis and this attitude.
:jazak:

I'm glad some people are open-minded and not being closed minded and thinking it's just the salafi who are the source of trouble :) I've met some (younger muslims who call to the dawah of salafiyah) who really lack the understanding of the deen and don't take the time and learn more (and just quote from mere websites the 'whole' time), this comes being overzealous in their approach to try and give dawah, but they seem to forget to learn the basics first and foremost. It takes time and patience ;)

[eat-halal guy]

:salam:

Forgive me for going off-topic, but I think we need to make clear that not all Salafis are evil as they seem to be portrayed. I know nice salafis - sure, we may have disagreements, but we treat each other with respect. In fact, the salafi masjid here (a big one) let us, and actually helped us, collect donations for our madrasa on the 27th night some years back.

Even the Saudi educational mission went through the curriculum (as Hanafi as it could get) and issued a letter of recommendation.

My point: I think everything needs to be kept in perspective and has to be balanced.

My cousin in Pakistan went to a Wahhabi madrasa and did Alima course. Sure, we disagree on some matters, but at the same time, we both have the utmost of respect for the 4 imams and all other scholars.

[faqir]

I do not follow [addition: Shaikh] Nuh keller. My good friend was his neighbour in Jordan.

Anyway, since I do not follow what [addition: Shaikh] Nuh Keller I do not care for the links, because people can say what they I like I do not care.

The Kuffar say many things, I do not care and others as well.




Yeah, sounds pretty open minded to me.
:confused:

[Abdur_Rahman]

:salam:

Forgive me for going off-topic, but I think we need to make clear that not all Salafis are evil as they seem to be portrayed. I know nice salafis - sure, we may have disagreements, but we treat each other with respect. In fact, the salafi masjid here (a big one) let us, and actually helped us, collect donations for our madrasa on the 27th night some years back.

Even the Saudi educational mission went through the curriculum (as Hanafi as it could get) and issued a letter of recommendation.

My point: I think everything needs to be kept in perspective and has to be balanced.

My cousin in Pakistan went to a Wahhabi madrasa and did Alima course. Sure, we disagree on some matters, but at the same time, we both have the utmost of respect for the 4 imams and all other scholars.
:salam:

:jazak:

I wished it was said earlier and then over 3 pages of back and forth chatter would've ceased :)


Yeah, sounds pretty open minded to me.
:confused:
Leave it alone, bro why beat a dead horse
:rolleyes:
if the brother doesn't accept from him, :mash: I'm sure you don't accept that much from Ibn Abdul-Wahab correct. :cheesygri

[faqir]

Never stopped me reading what he had to say [and accepting it in the first instance only to realise later that what he had to say on certain issues was incorrect].

[Abdur_Rahman]

Never stopped me reading what he had to say [and accepting it in the first instance only to realise later that what he had to say on certain issues was incorrect].
Silence is golden, it's better to go that route, if the mistake was made move one and make dua for him :)

[Abdur_Rahman]

:jazak:

[abdul518ca]

I do not agree with Sheikh Nuh Keller[db] on *some* issues, but he is still absolutely amazing. :p

[Azzam]

Never stopped me reading what he had to say [and accepting it in the first instance only to realise later that what he had to say on certain issues was incorrect].

I have read that same information probably more than you.

I read what [addition: Shaikh] Nuh keller said right after 9/11 attacks, how he mentioned that wahhabiya extremism is to blame and that some wahhabis in the states are against it but it exists.

I have read the articles of Abdal Hakim Murad. I have read and heard articles and translations of Hamza Yusuf.

I have read inside out of the masud khan site and the sunnah.org site etc....

I have read the q and a of [addition: Shaikh] Nuh Keller, about how he said that it is a bidah to give the repeated takbirs when they can be heard anyway through the microphone at the haram. And his opinion of ibn Kathir from another question.

How he and his wife studied with Shuayb Arnaut and so on.

I think his view is that women should wear niqaab and so on.

Brother I heard his tape on bidah like 4 times.

I have listened to his tape on 4 madhaahib and following one by him and Hamza Yusuf like 1 and half times.

I have heard Hamza Yusuf's tapes and mentioning about how the whitehouse will be taken over from hadith and other things from him.

I have heard all of these people. I know about Zaid Shakir before he joined Zaytuna. I listen to some tapes of him, when he mentioned that Fadhaail Amal has daef hadith I forgot the title of that set. Also when he gave a lecture and he asked all the nOn Muslims to stand and mentioned something to him.

After this and a lot more and speaking to people who are into this sort of Islam, I am quite familiar with the works of these people.

So when I said I do not follow him its after all this and more. Not just looking at a name and rejecting it.

To think about it I have heard the "tapes" of these people more than people like bilal philips. I still have not heard one tape of bilal philips just excerpts.

I do not listen to many tapes that is, but people (sufi minded) when we discussed these matters would just bring me tapes and so on. Otherwise I do not really listen to tapes.

I have only listened to one tape of Anwar Awlaki for 10 minutes and his Prophet series for like 30 minutes of one tape.

I can add more to this, this is what is appearing to my head after like 6 to 7 years of stuff. I just mentioned some of this to remove the impression that I blindly turn away from people.

addition: No need for instigation due to a word or lack of adab :)

[salman]

Salamu Alaikum

Ya Azzam, you talk about Adab, have the Adab to address the Ulema the way they should be addressed. By Allah, they are more worthier and greater in the sight of Allah then me and you. It does not matter what you have read, for a reader with a closed heart cannot grasp anything. Nor can a reader without yearning change himself, if it was not like this then many would be on the path we are on.

Fear Allah Sidi, and take this as advice.

Wasalam

[Azzam]

Salamu Alaikum

Ya Azzam, you talk about Adab, have the Adab to address the Ulema the way they should be addressed. By Allah, they are more worthier and greater in the sight of Allah then me and you. It does not matter what you have read, for a reader with a closed heart cannot grasp anything. Nor can a reader without yearning change himself, if it was not like this then many would be on the path we are on.

Fear Allah Sidi, and take this as advice.

Wasalam

I will take your advice. It must go all ways unless we use the principle that we respect only those we follow.

By mentioning the tapes I did not intend to let people know my expertise only that since people accused me of jumping the gun on certain people.

If you believe you are the on the haqq then good for you.

[salman]

I will take your advice. It must go all ways unless we use the principle that we respect only those we follow.

By mentioning the tapes I did not intend to let people know my expertise only that since people accused me of jumping the gun on certain people.

If you believe you are the on the haqq then good for you.

Salamu Alaikum


if it was not like this then many would be on the path we are on

You are Hanafi and i am Hanafi, both from ahly Sunnah - Alhamdulilah - but let us respect others from the ahly Sunnah especially the ulema and address them the proper way.

Wasalam

[Azzam]

Salamu Alaikum



You are Hanafi and i am Hanafi, both from ahly Sunnah - Alhamdulilah - but let us respect others from the ahly Sunnah especially the ulema and address them the proper way.

Wasalam

As I mentioned before, it never really occured to me that I must add sheikh before. I do have my feelings to certain people. I do not intend to insult anyone but those are my feelings.

I did not use sheikh for everyone. I just used it for Sheikh Albani because he passed away. And most cases for Abdullah bin Bayyah because he is an alim of a different calibre than most people.

I have said Sheikh Albani's name without sheikh many times as well.

I did not see it an issue but if it is bothering someone then thats fine. Advice taken.

[muminah]

I have read that same information probably more than you.

I read what [addition: Shaikh] Nuh keller said right after 9/11 attacks, how he mentioned that wahhabiya extremism is to blame and that some wahhabis in the states are against it but it exists.

I have read the articles of Abdal Hakim Murad. I have read and heard articles and translations of Hamza Yusuf.

I have read inside out of the masud khan site and the sunnah.org site etc....

I have read the q and a of [addition: Shaikh] Nuh Keller, about how he said that it is a bidah to give the repeated takbirs when they can be heard anyway through the microphone at the haram. And his opinion of ibn Kathir from another question.

How he and his wife studied with Shuayb Arnaut and so on.

I think his view is that women should wear niqaab and so on.

Brother I heard his tape on bidah like 4 times.

I have listened to his tape on 4 madhaahib and following one by him and Hamza Yusuf like 1 and half times.

I have heard Hamza Yusuf's tapes and mentioning about how the whitehouse will be taken over from hadith and other things from him.

I have heard all of these people. I know about Zaid Shakir before he joined Zaytuna. I listen to some tapes of him, when he mentioned that Fadhaail Amal has daef hadith I forgot the title of that set. Also when he gave a lecture and he asked all the nOn Muslims to stand and mentioned something to him.

After this and a lot more and speaking to people who are into this sort of Islam, I am quite familiar with the works of these people.

So when I said I do not follow him its after all this and more. Not just looking at a name and rejecting it.

To think about it I have heard the "tapes" of these people more than people like bilal philips. I still have not heard one tape of bilal philips just excerpts.

I do not listen to many tapes that is, but people (sufi minded) when we discussed these matters would just bring me tapes and so on. Otherwise I do not really listen to tapes.

I have only listened to one tape of Anwar Awlaki for 10 minutes and his Prophet series for like 30 minutes of one tape.

I can add more to this, this is what is appearing to my head after like 6 to 7 years of stuff. I just mentioned some of this to remove the impression that I blindly turn away from people.

addition: No need for instigation due to a word or lack of adab :)

interesting maa shaa Allaah