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Encaphlon
11-08-2007, 11:28 PM
Salaam aleikum

Is there any ulama who critisised the narration chains in Bukhari and muslim?

I heard that al albany said that 10 % of the hadith in the books are weak,,

Wa asalaam

Mansy
12-08-2007, 05:19 PM
Assalamualiakum, from the classical scholars, Imam darqutni has criticised imam bukhari and muslim, for not keeping up to their standards that they have stipulated. Imam Darqutni's arguments were based on some obscure rulings. Imam Ibn Hajar made a lenghty refutation of the objections raised agains imam bukhari in the introduction to his fathul bari known as hadyus saari. Imam Nawawi defended imam muslim. Collectively it can be seen from these two scholars works that imam darqutni's criticisms are based on obscure nomenclature.

Sheikh Albani as far as i know criticised imam muslim for including the hadiths of Abu zubair an Jabir, by saying that abu zubair is a mudallis. All of sheikh al-bani's objections have been answered and refuted by sheikh sayyed mamduh.

As far as the rejectors of hadith are concerned then they are always attacking bukhari and muslim, whoever their polemics are not worth noticing.

hope that answers your question
and Allah knows best

The Deen
12-08-2007, 06:37 PM
Assalamu Alaykum,

All the hadeeths in these two books are authentic, which is why they are called the 'Saheeh'.

There may be other ahadeeth which are more authentic than some of those found in Bukhari and Muslim, eg Musnad e Ahmad may have a hadeeth which is more authntic than a hadeeth found in bukhari, but all the hadeeths in these two books are still authntic.

The above post answers all though in my opinion.

Encaphlon
12-08-2007, 08:47 PM
Wa asalamu aleikum

Barakallahu feek to both of you...

So the conclusion is that all the critisism has been refuted?
Isnt there just one ulama of the ahlul sunna who critisised some of the chain narrations?

The Deen
13-08-2007, 12:06 PM
Assalamu Alaykum,

Never heard of the like but my knowledge is limited so maybe someone else can asnwer insha'Allah.

Colonel_Hardstone
13-08-2007, 12:09 PM
Assalamualiakum, from the classical scholars, Imam darqutni has criticised imam bukhari and muslim, for not keeping up to their standards that they have stipulated. Imam Darqutni's arguments were based on some obscure rulings. Imam Ibn Hajar made a lenghty refutation of the objections raised agains imam bukhari in the introduction to his fathul bari known as hadyus saari. Imam Nawawi defended imam muslim. Collectively it can be seen from these two scholars works that imam darqutni's criticisms are based on obscure nomenclature.

Sheikh Albani as far as i know criticised imam muslim for including the hadiths of Abu zubair an Jabir, by saying that abu zubair is a mudallis. All of sheikh al-bani's objections have been answered and refuted by sheikh sayyed mamduh.

As far as the rejectors of hadith are concerned then they are always attacking bukhari and muslim, whoever their polemics are not worth noticing.

hope that answers your question
and Allah knows best

Asslamo Allaikum Maulana,

I was taught by my teacher that Imam Nawawi (RA) has brought alternative Isnaad for 161 Ahadeeth of Sahih Muslim which were criticised & they are listed in his commentary.

Yahya
13-08-2007, 04:16 PM
Assalamu Alaykum,

All the hadeeths in these two books are authentic, which is why they are called the 'Saheeh'.

wa'alaykumussalaam

This is not agreed upon. Imam ash-Shafi'i, for example, considered at least one hadith to be weak, and that hadith, with the same chain, later was included by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh.

For that matter, Imam Muslim, in the introduction to his book, mentions that upon completion of the book, he took it to several big scholars of Hadith to get their opinions, and that they said 4 of the ahadith in his book were not Saheeh (but he included them anyway).

Dhul-Fiqar
13-08-2007, 04:28 PM
wa'alaykumussalaam

This is not agreed upon. Imam ash-Shafi'i, for example, considered at least one hadith to be weak

:salam:

I don't get this. If a Hadith has been deemed to be "Sahih" then it means it has passed rigirous tests to have it's status. How then can then it be said that it's weak?

Would it not put into question all of Bukhari and Muslims hadiths if their method for validating the authenticity of a hadith is in question?

Colonel_Hardstone
13-08-2007, 05:10 PM
wa'alaykumussalaam

This is not agreed upon. Imam ash-Shafi'i, for example, considered at least one hadith to be weak, and that hadith, with the same chain, later was included by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh.

For that matter, Imam Muslim, in the introduction to his book, mentions that upon completion of the book, he took it to several big scholars of Hadith to get their opinions, and that they said 4 of the ahadith in his book were not Saheeh (but he included them anyway).


:salam:

I don't get this. If a Hadith has been deemed to be "Sahih" then it means it has passed rigirous tests to have it's status. How then can then it be said that it's weak?

Would it not put into question all of Bukhari and Muslims hadiths if their method for validating the authenticity of a hadith is in question?

Asslamo Allaikum,

Alternative Isnaad for ALL "disputed" Ahadeeth provided by Imam Nawawi (RA) in his commentary of Sahih Muslim so there is NOTHING disputed in it anymore.

See Sharh Muslim by Imam Nawawi (RA) for details.

P.S: Please note the usage of " ".

Dhul-Fiqar
13-08-2007, 05:22 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

Alternative Isnaad for ALL "disputed" Ahadeeth provided by Imam Nawawi (RA) in his commentary of Sahih Muslim so there is NOTHING disputed in it anymore.

See Sharh Muslim by Imam Nawawi (RA) for details.

P.S: Please note the usage of " ".


:salam:

So you are saying they are still Sahih but the same conclusion can be reached through an alternative Isnaad?

Jazak Allah khair for clarifying that

Yahya
13-08-2007, 05:53 PM
The issue isn't only the asnaad. A hadith might have a Saheeh sanad, but still be considered weak for other reasons, such as iDTiraab (it doesn't agree with other narrations of the same event).

Ultimately, this is an issue that is best left to the genuine scholars of Hadith. And it is not true that they all agree. However, you should not let their differences stimulate doubt in your minds. Their opinions are legitimate and supported by evidence.

The mujtahids in the various schools understand all of this (because you must have mastered Hadith in order to become a mujtahid), and they have taken it all into account when deriving their fiqh opinions. The same is true for the opinions in other fields (like Aqidah). If you just learn the proper judgment of your school, you are safe. If you want more knowledge/understanding, then you have to study. You will not reach understanding reading sites like this one. And SF is better than most that I've seen.

tilmeedh
13-08-2007, 06:11 PM
One example is the hadith in Sahih Muslim in which it states that the father of the Prophet [s] is in hellfire.
The vast majority of Sunni scholars do not believe this.
A version of the same hadith (outside Sahih Muslim) with a more authentic isnad does not have bit, in which the narrator is Mu'ammar and not Hammad. And Mu'ammar is more accurate than Hammad.

ws

eTeacher
13-08-2007, 06:36 PM
The following should be helpful:

Weak Hadiths in Sahih Al-Bukhari? by GF Haddad
http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/d/whb_e.pdf

Saad
13-08-2007, 07:11 PM
http://albalagh.net/qa/hadith_authenticity.shtml



As for the authentic books of ahadith, the list will never stop. However, some of these authentic books may contain ahadith whose reliability may vary from authentic to weak and so on. Hence, we will enlist those books regarding which the Ulama have stated that all or majority of their Ahadith are reliable and authentic and not undermined the other numerous authentic books of Ahadith.

Those books whose Ahaadith are all authentic: Sahih Bukhari, Adabul Mufrad (by Imaam Bukhari), Sahih Muslim, Muwatta Imaam Maalik, Sahih ibn Khuzaymah, Sahih ibn Hibbaan, al-Muntaqa by Imaam Jaaruwd, al-Mukhtaarah by Imaam Dhiyaa-ud-Deen Maqdisiy, Riyaadhul-saaliheen by Imaam Nawawiy, Fourty Ahaadith by Imaam Nawawiy, Hisn Haseen by Imaam Jazary, Part1 of Mishkaat al-Masaabeeh. Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mansy
14-08-2007, 12:48 AM
http://albalagh.net/qa/hadith_authenticity.shtml
Assalmualaikum, the statement from al-balagh website is too general, the reality of the matter is that all of these ulama have tried to include only sahih hadith in their collections, but only imam bukhari and imam muslim have been successful 100%, non of the others quiet stood up to their standards. Part 1 in every chapter of mishkat is sahih because they are taken from bukhari and muslim only.

and Allah knows best.

Saad
14-08-2007, 01:16 AM
Assalmualaikum, the statement from al-balagh website is too general, the reality of the matter is that all of these ulama have tried to include only sahih hadith in their collections, but only imam bukhari and imam muslim have been successful 100%, non of the others quiet stood up to their standards. Part 1 in every chapter of mishkat is sahih because they are taken from bukhari and muslim only.

and Allah knows best.

:salam:

What about Imam Malik? According to some scholars like Hazrat Shah Waliullah and Shah Abdul Aziz, Mawatta is more Shaheeh than Bukhari.

Mansy
14-08-2007, 01:30 AM
assalamulaikum, hadith criticism is a very idiosyncratic art and not an absolute science, therefore there are different judgment for the same hadith. One of the priniciples of hadith science is that a hadith is to be judged according to the strongest isnaad.

All the hadith found in the main part of these two books are authentic, and this is what it means by all the hadith in these two books are sahih.

hadiths that come in the footnotes or sidenotes are not necessarly sahih although most of the time they are.

wassalam

Mansy
14-08-2007, 01:33 AM
assalamualaikum, muwatta is seen as more sahih than bukhari by some scholars because the time gap between imam malik and the Prophet is shorter. However, between bukhari and Muwatta, bukhari is more sahih

wal ilm indallah