Skeptics

[jinnzaman]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with someone who's adopted the philosophical school of thought known as 'skepticism' where they doubt not only the empirical proof for the existence of objects, but all rational thought as well?

Basically, how do you deal with someone whose adopted a semi-Cartesian outlook on life?

[faqir]

slap him

[jinnzaman]

isn't that what Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimahullah) did to an athiest? or was that a brick?

[faqir]

This line of argument originates from the Ancient Greeks, no?

Anyway Akhi, what would you say?

[Abdur_Rahman]

isn't that what Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimahullah) did to an athiest? or was that a brick?
Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimallah) slapped someone or used a brick on the guy.....I'm sure that left a mark ;)

[faqir]

I remember reading this on-line translation of something written by Descartes but I can't find it..... I'll have a look later, IA.

[faqir]

JinzaMan, I remember you said you would type up something you'd studied with your teacher regarding the rational proofs for the existence of Allah.

Have you done it yet? Wanna share? :)

[ahsanirfan]

oooo Descartes.. he was baaaaad.... "I think, therefore I am." BS

;)

[faqir]

One cannot conceive anything so strange and so implausible that it has not already been said by one philosopher or another.

Rene Descartes, 'Le Discours de la Methode,' 1637

[jinnzaman]

JinzaMan, I remember you said you would type up something you'd studied with your teacher regarding the rational proofs for the existence of Allah.

Have you done it yet? Wanna share? :)


Yes, I have a few rational proofs for the creator, but I did not learn them from a teacher, I studied them on my own.

The sources I used are the following:
1. Imam Juwayni's "Conclusive Proofs for the Principles of Beliefs"
2. Ibn Khaldun's "Muqaddimah"
3. Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Dr. Umar Abdullah's "Names and Attributes of Allah"
4. Taqiuddin Nabbhani's "System of Islam" (This is the founder of HT)
5. The Philosophy of the Kalam - I don't have all the sources.

Each of the texts above incorporate some basic proofs for the existence of Allah (swt). Of the 5 books, the most comprehensive is the 5th one 'The philosophy of the kalam" which gives something like a total of 10 proofs for the existence of the creator and includes the little-known "Atomic" proofs for the existence of the creator.

I don't have any ijazehs or anything like that, this is independent study. Write now, everything is in note form, so its extremely difficult to read, but I'm trying to break it down into a halaqa format and incorporating some stuff from Shaykh Nuh's "Pathos of Scientism" series as well as some texts off of Sunnipath.

I gotta finish reading this one other book and then I will dedicate my full efforts to this project.

***

Back to the original topic.

Dealing with agnostics/athiests isn't that hard, but when they have skepticism as their modus operandi, its extremely difficult to establish anything.

My suggestion is that when dealing with people from philosophy backgrounds is before you give them dawaah, first ask them how to establish a proof for anything before establishing how Islam is the Truth.

If they say empirical arguments, then one can use a certain brand of arguments known as cosmological arguments.

If one says rational arguments, then one can use a certain brand of arguments like the miraculous nature of the quran (Shaykh Ahmad Ali did a lecture on this).

[abeer_xyz]

In fact Descartes was not a skeptic. It was David Hume who was the greatest and the most honest skeptic in history of philosophy.

Skepticism is not that bad as it is sometimes seems to be. In fact, philosophically, religion is based on skepticism.

Skepticism says that our senses and our intellect do not have the ability to reach at the ultimate reality which exists on its own, matter or mind whatever it may be. I myself believe that philosophy can teach us this very simple and real teaching. The only rational conclusion for a philosopher is skepticism. And this is the logic for the need of a Prophet and Revelation.

We can not logically prove or disprove God’s existence or the reality of the afterlife. We can only make appeal to man and most of mankind has a tendency to accept it. This propensity has been imprinted in man’s mind and his psychological structure.

Yet if any one sticks to skepticism and denies to believe in God and denies to believe in the Prophet, we can ask him why he does do what he does in his life while he is not certain about anything and his future. We can ask him why he believes in the past and expects for the future.