Yay Najd Qiya hay ?

[abuhidaya]

The Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said,
"O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Shaam. O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Messenger of Allaah, and our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said, "There (in Najd) will occur earthquakes, trials and tribulations, and from their appears the Horn of Satan."
Reported in al-Bukhaaree [Book of Trials, Chpt. 'The afflictions will come from the East' 9/166 no. 214 Eng. Trans]


Bani Tameem constitute the majority of the inhabitants of the Najd that is in Saudi Arabia. The hadeeth of Saheeh Bukhaaree reported by Abu Hurayra (RA): "I have loved the people of the tribe of Bani Tameem, ever since I heard three things the Messenger of Allaah , sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said about them. I heard him saying, 'these people (of the tribe of Bani Tameem) would stand firm against the Dajjaal.' When the Saddaqat from that tribe came, the Messenger of Allaah , sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said, "these are the Saddaqat (charitable gifts) of our folk." Aa'ishah had a slave girl from that tribe, and the Prophet , sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said to Aa'ishah, 'manumit her as she is a descendant of Ismaa'eel, alayhis salaam.'"

It is not strange that Bani Tameem would be the most severe against the Dajjaal, because the tools required to combat him are none but a correct and firm belief and proper beneficial knowledge. Alhumdolillaah many of the scholars of Saudi are from the most noble and skilled scholars on the face of this earth today, firmly upon the way of our noble Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam.

For Full article

http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php?id=161&category=19

[faqir]

PUNCTURING THE DEVIL’S DREAM ABOUT THE
HADITHS OF
NAJD AND TAMIM
[updated]

Kerim Fenari



For Full Article:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/najd.htm

[Azzam]

The najd in this hadith does not refer to the Najd province in Saudi.

But since we will in fact go in circles, I will try to get in touch with people the opposing side respects and not go to people they do not respect.

So then in the end people will not accuse me of copying and pasting articles and fatawa from people from such and such group as is done usually.

So I had in mind to ask Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah, whom I trust and a person that many people here according to what they claim atleast respect.

There are some other people that I may approach as well.

Right now everyone is busy with Hajj so please be patient.

I also advise in all fairness to get in touch with someone who is balanced in their approach to different groups such as Abdullah bin Bayyah otherwise we will just be spilling out things from who we like and so on.

[faqir]

The najd in this hadith does not refer to the Najd province in Saudi.



The Hadith of Najd: a correction


The land of Najd, which for two centuries has been the crucible of the Wahhabi doctrine, is the subject of a body of interesting hadiths and early narrations, which repay close analysis. Among the best-known of these hadiths is the relation of Imam al-Bukhari in which Ibn Umar said: ‘The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) mentioned: "O Allah, give us baraka in our Syria, O Allah, give us baraka in our Yemen." They said: "And in our Najd?" and he said: "O Allah, give us baraka in our Syria, O Allah, give us baraka in our Yemen." They said: "And in our Najd?" and I believe that he said the third time: "In that place are earthquakes, and seditions, and in that place shall rise the devil’s horn [qarn al-shaytan]."’

This hadith is clearly unpalatable to the Najdites themselves, some of whom to this day strive to persuade Muslims from more reputable districts that the hadith does not mean what it clearly says.

One device used by such apologists is to utilise a definition that includes Iraq in the frontiers of Najd.

By this manoeuvre, the Najdis draw the conclusion that the part of Najd, which is condemned so strongly in this hadith, is in fact Iraq, and that Najd proper is excluded.

Medieval Islamic geographers contest this inherently strange thesis (see for instance Ibn Khurradadhbih, al-Masalik wa’l-mamalik [Leiden, 1887], 125; Ibn Hawqal, Kitab Surat al-ard ,18); and limit the northern extent of Najd at Wadi al-Rumma, or to the deserts to the south of al-Mada’in.

There is no indication that the places in which the second wave of sedition arose, such as Kufa and Basra, were associated in the mind of the first Muslims with the term ‘Najd’. On the contrary, these places are in every case identified as lying within the land of Iraq.



The evasion of this early understanding of the term in order to exclude Najd, as usually understood, from the purport of the hadith of Najd, has required considerable ingenuity from pro-Najdi writers in the present day.

Some apologists attempt to conflate this hadith with a group of other hadiths which associate the ‘devil’s horn’ with ‘the East’, which is supposedly a generic reference to Iraq.

While it is true that some late-medieval commentaries also incline to this view, modern geographical knowledge clearly rules it out.

Even the briefest glimpse at a modern atlas will show that a straight line drawn to the east of al-Madina al-Munawwara does not pass anywhere near Iraq, but passes some distance to the south of Riyadh; that is to say, through the exact centre of Najd.

The hadiths which speak of ‘the East’ in this context hence support the view that Najd is indicated, not Iraq.



On occasion the pro-Najdi apologists also cite the etymological sense of the Arabic word najd, which means ‘high ground’.

Again, a brief consultation of an atlas resolves this matter decisively.

With the exception of present-day northern Iraq, which was not considered part of Iraq by any Muslim until the present century (it was called ‘al-Jazira’), Iraq is notably flat and low-lying, much of it even today being marshland, while the remainder, up to and well to the north of Baghdad, is flat, low desert or agricultural land.

Najd, by contrast, is mostly plateau, culminating in peaks such as Jabal Tayyi’ (1300 metres), in the Jabal Shammar range.

It is hard to see how the Arabs could have routinely applied a topographic term meaning ‘upland’ to the flat terrain of southern Iraq (the same territory which proved so suitable for tank warfare during the ‘Gulf War’, that notorious source of dispute between Riyadh’s ‘Cavaliers’ and ‘Roundheads’).



Confirmation of this identification is easily located in the hadith literature, which contains numerous references to Najd, all of which clearly denote Central Arabia.

To take a few examples out of many dozens: there is the hadith narrated by Abu Daud (Salat al-Safar, 15), which runs:

‘[B]We went out to Najd with Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) until we arrived at Dhat al-Riqa‘, where he met a group from Ghatafan [a Najdite tribe].’

In Tirmidhi (Hajj, 57), there is the record of an encounter between the Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) and a Najdi delegation which he received at Arafa (see also Ibn Maja, Manasik, 57).

In no such case does the Sunna indicate that Iraq was somehow included in the Prophetic definition of ‘Najd’.



Further evidence can be cited from the cluster of hadiths which identify the miqat points for pilgrims.

In a hadith narrated by Imam Nasa’i (Manasik al-Hajj, 22), ‘A’isha (r.a.) declared that ‘Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) established the miqat for the people of Madina at Dhu’l-Hulayfa, for the people of Syria and Egypt at al-Juhfa, for the people of Iraq at Dhat Irq, and for the people of Najd at Qarn, and for the Yemenis at Yalamlam.’

Imam Muslim (Hajj, 2) narrates a similar hadith: ‘for the people of Madina it is Dhu’l-Hulayfa - while on the other road it is al-Juhfa - for the people of Iraq it is Dhat Irq, for the people of Najd it is Qarn, and for the people of Yemen it is Yalamlam.’

These texts constitute unarguable proof that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) distinguished between Najd and Iraq, so much so that he appointed two separate miqat points for the inhabitants of each. For him, clearly, Najd did not include Iraq.



Read on at:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/najd.htm

[Azzam]

Well as I said, one side is going to spill this out and another will spill something else out.

It will go nowhere.

I have already mentioned what I will do, so in due course insha Allah. Remember getting someone from a balanced approach will lead to better understanding, not cheerleading each side's articles and so on...Otherwise I could have done the same thing.

[faqir]

Its okay Akhi, I don't need your clarification.

I have heard enough qualified shuyukh explain the truth of this hadith.

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/psalafis.htm

[Azzam]

When did I mentioned something about clarification?

Firstly, it was not mine, I could have added mine but I decided not to.

Secondly, it was I had planned from Abdullah bin Bayyah after asking him. The only reason why I did this was that people will get over names and maybe look at content. Because Abdullah bin Bayyah is respected by a wide variety of groups. So to create a balanced ground.

Thirdly, it was not for you, I never addressed you specifically, if I wanted to I would have. I thought since this a public forum you posted something about a topic and I would post something from another person about that topic to make it more dynamic and authentic.

Fourthly, look man if you have shuyukh you follow good for you. If you want to disrespect ulema such as Abdullah bin Bayyah but overriding his opinion, then go ahead. I would atleast if I respected someone atleast listen to what they say. I myself do not agree with Abdullah bin Bayyah on everything but it would make no sense to dismiss him because I have other shuyukh I follow.

Maybe mention the name of Abdullah bin Bayyah to these other shuyukh if they are arab and see what they say to you about him.

[faqir]

Are you dreaming up something here? Where have I disrespected Sh. Abdullah bin Bayyah? I said I did not need any clarification from him as I have heard this hadith used in reference to the Wahabi / Salafi sect by various other qualified shuyukh. And you talk about respect of the shaykh - maybe you don't realise what the pseudo-salafiyyah say about him!?!

[Azzam]

Are you dreaming up something here? Where have I disrespected Sh. Abdullah bin Bayyah? I said I did not need any clarification from him as I have heard this hadith used in reference to the Wahabi / Salafi sect by various other qualified shuyukh. And you talk about respect of the shaykh - maybe you don't realise what the pseudo-salafiyyah say about him!?!

I know the sheikh I have met him personally and have asked him various questions. I did not say directly that you disrespected him. Yet you said you did not need any clarification from him. I never said you needed a clarification from him, I was gonna bring what he says about this matter and so on.

I asked him about Muhammad ibn Abdil Wahhab and he said only positive things about him to me.

Please tell me what the "pseudo-salafiyyah" say about him. I would really like to know because he works with them daily in Saudi and teaches many of them there. If someone is mistaken about him I feel that I am obligated to clarify things to them about him.

[faqir]

Go speak to them on the various forums [or better yet, speak to them in person] and they will tell you - i am not the salafiyya spokesman.

Good night.

Wasalam.

[Azzam]

Go speak to them on the various forums [or better yet, speak to them in person] and they will tell you - i am not the salafiyya spokesman.

You said they said stuff about Abdullah bin Bayyah. Please let me know, I do not have time to flip flop around forums, I mostly just come here even though I disagree with a lot said here anyway.

Just tell me who said this as well be specific or direct me to an exact link since you have so much time.

The sheikh taught Salman Al Awdah and others among the salafiyyah.

I know the sheikh once said in a gathering that the some of the ulema in saudi disagree with the sheikh to his positions to the asharis and some other minute things but this is with the other scholars there.

The salafis living in the West mostly dont know the sheikh and since he did a collection with Hamza Yusuf translating many think he is sufi but he is not and so on...

[Azzam]

It is not strange that Bani Tameem would be the most severe against the Dajjaal, because the tools required to combat him are none but a correct and firm belief and proper beneficial knowledge. Alhumdolillaah many of the scholars of Saudi are from the most noble and skilled scholars on the face of this earth today, firmly upon the way of our noble Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam.

For Full article

http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php?id=161&category=19

There is one hadith of an army battlion coming from the east (Khurasan) you will have a son of banu Tameem leading it. From this we can see that the arabs from the Najd specifically from the tribe of Tameem in Saudi are in this region unless the hadith is referring to someone who has changed his ethnicity and language but originally is from the banu tameem clan. Allah knows best.

[Yasin786]

Abdul Wahab Najdi caused more controversy in the Islamic state then almost anyone alive. Why are the Muslims segregated and destroyed as an Ummah now? If Abdul Wahab Nadji was so great then why after he spread fitnah is the Ummah not stronger? How come when Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jillani (R.A) passed away the Ummah was so strong, and Baghdad was a beacon of light through out the whole of the world with Science, Philosphy etc etc. Does Allah not bless whom he wills and curse whom he wills? It is obvious he did nothing but cause fitnah, defamed the names of those who studied for years to perfect the Sunnah of Prophet (s.a.w), and break the last link of "United" in this Ummah, it is very hard to understand it any other way for me, but the Uleyma then were refuting his face off, and the Uleyma now are doing the same. Any Uleyma or anyone accepting him to be any kind of light for this Ummah needs to take a clear look around you and your Islam and how broken it is next to the time of greater scholars like all 4 of the great Imans, plus all the Awliyah, look at that time and how unsegregated it was, now this Ummah has trouble deciding what day Eid is and we have all the technology in the world, back then everyone chose a date and it usually was not aruged over atleast to my knowledge. And in my opinion, Abdul Wahab Nadji started all of it. [clip] There is a whole Chapter in Bukhari about believing your trusting Muslim Brother, but i am to tired to dig it up, i will post the chapters tommarow, but there is one Hadith where the Sahaba tell Prophet that he had prayed 5 rakat fard and not 4, and he listened to them. What if he did pray 4, wouldnt what he was doing be Bida'h? Only according tot he Salafi's. May Allah keep us away from arrogence and make sure we know we know nothing compared to real learned scholars of Islam.

[Abul Hasan]

I know the sheikh I have met him personally and have asked him various questions. I did not say directly that you disrespected him. Yet you said you did not need any clarification from him. I never said you needed a clarification from him, I was gonna bring what he says about this matter and so on.

I asked him about Muhammad ibn Abdil Wahhab and he said only positive things about him to me.

Please tell me what the "pseudo-salafiyyah" say about him. I would really like to know because he works with them daily in Saudi and teaches many of them there. If someone is mistaken about him I feel that I am obligated to clarify things to them about him.

:salam:

This is the same Shaykh Abdullah ibn Bayya who we witnessed last July in East London Masjid, London - answer that he affirms the validity of Tawassul and he related to the audience how he quoted the Hadith of the blind man to Bin Baz (who rejects Tawassul) - and the latter remained silent! Fact is: Most pseudo-Salafiyya deny the validity of Tawassul, many call it shirk, and oppose the Imam they claim to respect in aqeeda: Ibn Hanbal (ra) - who affirmed Tawassul's validity...