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goli
20-01-2005, 11:50 PM
Muslim error
1) Muhammad once said: “Satan touches every son of Adam save Mary and her son” (Muhammad by lings page 26) This isn’t even a Christian teaching it is a roman catholic heresy. Mary was not perfect she was just a handmaid of God. How do Muslims explain this? Why did Muhammad preach Catholicism?

Catholic influences?

1) Muhammad’s wife was Khadijah was a faithful roman catholic. Her cousin Waraquah was also Roman Catholic. Waraquah a catholic once said verily, “Muhammad is the prophet f his people”. They were most likely both under the order of the Jesuit priests (explained below)

2) When Muhammad was nine he was also with his uncle on a caravan . A Roman catholic monk saw the boy and questioned him. He saw the mark on Muhammad’s back and claimed it was the seal of prophet hood.

3) In the 5th year of Muhammad’s mission persecution cam against his followers because they refused to worship in kaaba. Negus a Roman catholic king (of Abyssinia) accepted them because Muhammad’s view of the virgin Mary suited there beliefs.

Does anyone find it odd how Catholics are always hand in hand with the Muslims. And this is around the time that the protestants were rebelling against them was it not?

The Jesuits is a religious order who basically try to destroy religions from the inside. They believe that the Muslim and protestant religions are evil and the more damage they do in secret the faster they will get to heaven and less time in purgatory. They are very clever and often pose as good people of the religion. We know this from many confessed Jesuits who converted to Christianity. (particularly Alberto Rivera).

Silver Sparrow
21-01-2005, 12:09 AM
1) Muhammad once said: “Satan touches every son of Adam save Mary and her son” (Muhammad by lings page 26) This isn’t even a Christian teaching it is a roman catholic heresy. Mary was not perfect she was just a handmaid of God. How do Muslims explain this? Why did Muhammad preach Catholicism?
What? Maryam was a pious servant of Allah, one of the best women in history. We believe she IS the mother of jesus. Muhammad SAW never preached catholicism, he preached Islam. Same way jesus never preached trinity ;)

Azzam
21-01-2005, 12:19 AM
Please visit this thread http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3109

I had mentioned there that it might be more of an advantage to you to visit the site I mentioned in order to gain comprehensive research. In this site whether you achieve that or not depends on two things,

1. What your purpose is?
2. What are/is the abilities, capabilities, background knowledge and methods of delivery you are asking?

If you want to know more about Islam, I think this site and many others can help you as many brothers and sisters are blessed atleast on a minimal level with the basics.

If you want to know about Christianity from an Islamic perspective please see the other thread which I mentioned above. If you also want to view Islam from a totally Christian perspective than that is understandable, but the other site might be able to help you in that in a better way.

Omar HH
21-01-2005, 12:26 AM
I disagree with your comments about Jesuits. Our Prophet once said, "The onus of proof is on the accusor"

For all those who don't know, Protestants are basically Wahhabi Christians (anti-bid'ah, anti-tawassul, anti-Sound Scholarship). Some are more Wahhabi than others.

Anyways, greetings of love my friend Goliwag.

Khadija, Waraqah, and Bahira could not have been Roman Catholics. For the simple fact that Roman Catholics by the year 600 had already had an "official doctrine" on Jesus' human and divine natures as outlined in the Nicene Creed "Begotten not created and of the same essence as the father." This, in Muslim theology, is polytheistic or shirk. Shirk (as in Polytheism) is the no. 1 greatest sin and is unforgivable unless repented to before death. No Muslim would say that Khadija (May God be pleased with her) was a Polytheist.

Now what was Khadija, Waraqa, and Bahira? Well... thats a good question. If you are familiar with the doctrine of "Arianism" many parts of that (although not the entire thing) are what you would consider them. Goto the Qur'an's chapter called "Al-Kahf" or "The Cave" for a description of the Christianity we are speaking of.

Muslims are not missionaries nor angry debators. We will not debate you to try to convert you, nor for the sake of arguing, but for conveying our message.

abdul518ca
21-01-2005, 12:32 AM
Does anyone find it odd how Catholics are always hand in hand with the Muslims. And this is around the time that the protestants were rebelling against them was it not?

I think the Emperor of Constatinpole was a Catholic. I think the ones the who waged the Crusades were ALSO Catholics. :rolleyes:


2) When Muhammad was nine he was also with his uncle on a caravan . A Roman catholic monk saw the boy and questioned him. He saw the mark on Muhammad’s back and claimed it was the seal of prophet hood.

There's NO PROOF as to what the sect of this monk, Bahira, belonged to. If you say it was a Roman Catholic, BRING YOUR PROOF.

Besides, Muhamamd could neither read or write. There's no way he could've learned what he preached, except it be that he was taught by God.


1) Muhammad’s wife was Khadijah was a faithful roman catholic. Her cousin Waraquah was also Roman Catholic. Waraquah a catholic once said verily, “Muhammad is the prophet f his people”. They were most likely both under the order of the Jesuit priests (explained below)

Once again, BRING YOUR PROOF which shows that both of these 2 were Roman Catholics. No where does it say that Khadijah was even a Christian. As for Waraqah, the most we know about him is that he KNEW the BIBLES. So *most probably* he WAS a Christian, but there's no solid proof to show that he was a Christan.



1) Muhammad once said: “Satan touches every son of Adam save Mary and her son” (Muhammad by lings page 26) This isn’t even a Christian teaching it is a roman catholic heresy. Mary was not perfect she was just a handmaid of God. How do Muslims explain this? Why did Muhammad preach Catholicism?
You wordings sound like you don't consider Roman Catholics as inside the fold of Christianity, do you?

Islam isn't a totally new religion. It's the continuation of an earlier Message. Some of teachings are similar to those of the Christians, just like some of Christinaty's teachings are like Judaism.

Yusuf
21-01-2005, 01:48 AM
Shouldn't these silly threads be posted in the "non-muslims" forum?

Omar HH
21-01-2005, 02:00 AM
Muslims don't hate Protestants and love Catholics. Muslims love all mankind what they love for themselves.

It just happens that the Catholic Church was much more straightforward in establishing peaceful relations and dialouge:


3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth (5), who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honour Mary, His virgin mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, alms-giving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom. - "Declaration of the Church in Relation to non-Christian Religions"

It doesn't mean there is a conspiracy-alliance between Muslims and Catholics overthrowing Protestants. Muslims will work together peacefully with anyone that will help us in our common goal to seek the good for all. One of our scholars, Shaykh Faraz Rabbani said "The imperative of the believer is to seek the good."

Muslims have actually worked together many times in the past with Protestants, Mennanites, Quakers, Mormons, etc. Regardless of what you believe about the afterlife, you can deliver your message to us and we will either accept it or reject it while we do the same to you. We should work together to accomplish our worldy goals at least.

Religion does not spread through rational arguments and logic, in my opinion at least. Religion spreads through love through the vehicle of the heart. So therefore it is unlikely that anyone will be convinced by anything through online argumentation. But it is still a great thing to hear your message and give you the opportunity to hear ours.

Omar HH
21-01-2005, 02:04 AM
Oh yeah and I am talking about post-Vatican II Catholics (the official stance of the church) not the Traditionalist Catholics who still do their masses in Latin and disagree with Vatican II. Unfortunately Muslim dialouge with Traditionalist Catholics has been lacking, mostly because of geographical reasons, but insha Allah (God willing) we will be able to have dialouge with these people soon.

Of all the many Catholics I know, and all of the many STRONG Catholics I know, I have only met 2 traditionalist Catholics in my life.

goli
21-01-2005, 09:07 AM
well to start with these are a few views of christians I would proviode the link to the site but i think some might find it offensive so ill just put the basics in.

Muhammad- Islam's greatest "prophet". Because the Roman Catholic church wanted to rule from Jerusalem instead of Rome, the Vatican needed a military machine to kill the Jews and true Christianity. The Vatican chose the children of Ishmael (Arabs) to do this dirty work. Vatican spies chose Muhammad, a brilliant young man of the Quraysh tribe in Mecca, to be the leader. Khadijah, a beautiful Roman Catholic, was ordered to marry Muhammad. Khadijah's Catholic cousin, Waraquah, interpreted and influenced Muhammad's "visions", so when Muhammad declared that there was no god but Allah, and when he claimed himself to be the prophet of Allah, Islam spread like a fire.

The proof of this is in the catholic texts hidden away so far the only man to testify in public that hasent been asasinated (to my knowledge) is doctor alberto rivera a ex jesuite. (i hope the source didnt offend anyone)
Also christian will question the contrast of love in the koran to the bible for example...

The Koran says in Sura 5:33
The just retribution for those who fight GOD (Allah) and His messenger (Muhammad and/or muslims), and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.

The Bible says in Matthew 5:44
"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you."

I do however admire muslims for being very oreachy that takes courage

http://www.puritans.net/news/romemuslimleague2021203.htm this link also helps to explain the conspiracy of muslims working with roman catholics.

I have to fly now cause im on a shared computer be back with more asap...

al-Shami
21-01-2005, 10:19 AM
The Jesuits is a religious order who basically try to destroy religions from the inside. They believe that the Muslim and protestant religions are evil and the more damage they do in secret the faster they will get to heaven and less time in purgatory. They are very clever and often pose as good people of the religion. We know this from many confessed Jesuits who converted to Christianity. (particularly Alberto Rivera).

For a bit of balance, I would point out that Catholics believe that the Alberto Rivera allegations where fake.

Alberto Rivera’s False Anti-Catholic Story
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/pages/show_page.asp?228

In English history the Jesuits where demonized (Justly or unjustly) for lurking in the shadows, plotting the assassination of the protestant monarchy and replacing them with a catholic head, this seems to be a continuation of that.

I don’t know enough about Jesuits to feel strongly either way.

al-Shami
21-01-2005, 10:52 AM
The story about the monk comes from catholic sources, from medieval times, the same ones that say Muslims worship 3 gods, one of whom was torn apart by a pig.

Obviously none of that is accurate, Muslims are monotheists and believe in one God, who taught the same message to his prophets including Jesus (peace be upon him), Abraham (peace be upon him), Adam (peace be upon him), and Mohammad (peace be upon him).

It the same message, so if Christians see something they used to practice and used to be believed, for example (Jesus (peace be upon him) was a man, the story of the talking bird, Jesus (peace be upon him) didn’t die on the cross), all which are in non-canon gospels, which where widely read by Christians until the council of Nicea.

Bishop Eusebius who attended the council of Nicea discussed it in "History of the Church" (Book 3) where he refers to "spurious books" which include the Revelation to John among others that got canonised in a "deal" over some other books that were "disputed".

Christians would say today’s message they hold is the true message purified by the council to differentiate between Jews and Christians (E.g. Bible instructs people not to eat pork, but it applies to Jews only) and compiled with gospels and letters that are “god inspired” and all previous Christians books rejected by the council are spurious.

For Muslims it’s a reaffirmation that their belief that the teachings of Christianity have been changed overtime by Men.

In the end your position is a matter of faith.

Silver Sparrow
21-01-2005, 09:04 PM
The Bible says in Matthew 5:44
"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you."
I believe there is something similar in the ahadith. It is well known that Muhammad (SAW) showed mercy, for he was sent as:
"a mercy to all creatures",
even to those who fought against him.
Theres more about this in the letters I and a brother wrote in reply to an atheists accusations, see the thread 'muslims have near disdain for human life'.


Muhammad- Islam's greatest "prophet". Because the Roman Catholic church wanted to rule from Jerusalem instead of Rome, the Vatican needed a military machine to kill the Jews and true Christianity. The Vatican chose the children of Ishmael (Arabs) to do this dirty work. Vatican spies chose Muhammad, a brilliant young man of the Quraysh tribe in Mecca, to be the leader. Khadijah, a beautiful Roman Catholic, was ordered to marry Muhammad. Khadijah's Catholic cousin, Waraquah, interpreted and influenced Muhammad's "visions", so when Muhammad declared that there was no god but Allah, and when he claimed himself to be the prophet of Allah, Islam spread like a fire.
Absolute *BLEEP*! How can anyone fall for such pants?


<note from moderator: Please refrain from swearing on an islamic message board. There should be no short formed words of the swearing either. >

al-Shami
22-01-2005, 10:00 AM
Goliwog,

Here are the problems with your theory:

Waraquah only met the prophet twice, and died 3 years after their first meeting. The revelations went on for 23 years. If the Roman Catholic Pope wanted to get the Arabs to attack rival Christian sects, it would be far more logical to convert them to Roman Catholicism, which is historically what we see in Europe.

As for the claims that Islam was a Roman Catholic conspiracy to create a “military machine to kill the Jews and true Christianity”, this would not work. For the following reasons:

Muslims don’t differentiate between Christian sects. This can be seen in the rules on marriage.

See: http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00004017.aspx

If you follow Jesus peace be upon him, and the bible, then you are a Christian.

While historically Christian sectarianism has been a source of conflict in the west, leading to purges against heretical sects, this isn’t the case in the east.

For example, when Muslims captured Syria, they didn’t kill anyone; the inhabitant’s in-fact opened their gates and welcomed them as liberators for the Byzantine despot. No mass slaughters, no pogroms, contrast that with the chronicle of Fulcher of Chartres, on his capture of Jerusalem and the wading in blood up to his knees.

He had no mercy for Christians, Jews or Muslims; he clearly cared what sort of Christian you where.

Yet when the pope finally did capture the city and occupy it, he didn’t take the opportunity to rule from Jerusalem, which is what you suggest was his primary motivation.

In fact the popes’ primary motivation was a mixture of religious bigotry, plain greed, and a failed attempt to stop European Christian kings from slaughtering each other, by giving them a common foe.

If this was supposed to be a “military machine to kill Jews and true Christianity”, then it’s obviously failed entirely, with 10% of Egypt being Coptic Christian.

Lebanon is 30% Christian with 11 legally recognized Christian groups - 4 Orthodox Christian, 6 Catholic, and 1 Protestant.

Syria is 10% Christian has Roman Catholic, eastern orthodox, Armenian, Syrian churches, even Johanite Baptists who revere Marry Magdalene (the sacred feminine, demonised by Rome for so long). There is even a community of Aramaic speaking Christians in Syria at the oldest church in the world.

It’s Obvious that no where else in the world did such diversity in Christianity survive, except in the middle-east.

It is exactly because of Muslim indifference to Christian sectarianism which allowed theses sects to remain; you can contrast that with Christian’s sect’s treatment in Christendom, and make up your own mind, as to whether such theory is credible.

abdul518ca
22-01-2005, 06:08 PM
^Lol. Well said brother.

Let's see what else goliwog comes up with. :cheesygri

UmmZaid
22-01-2005, 09:07 PM
Goliwog should learn some Christian history before coming here. There was no such thing as the Roman Catholic church in the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). There was one church (Catholic meaning "universal") with smaller churches and heretical (to them) movements here and there. The "Great Schism" between the Eastern (Orthodox) and Western (Roman) church did not occur until 1054, more than 400 years after the *death* of the Prophet (peace be upon him). The "big, bad Vatican" wasn't in charge at the time of the Message of Islam's coming...

Furthermore, the split between the Roman church and the Protestant movements did not occur until the 1500s, not around the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) as you claim.

Further, the RCC did not formally teach or accept the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (which has to do with Mary, not Jesus) until December of 1854, a thousand plus years after the Prophet (peace be upon him) made the aforementioned statement about Jesus and Mary (peace be upon them).

So much for your anti Catholic and anti Muslim bigotry. Gross.

Silver Sparrow
22-01-2005, 10:31 PM
^ I love this sister!! :D

goli
22-01-2005, 11:33 PM
It the same message, so if Christians see something they used to practice and used to be believed, for example (Jesus (peace be upon him) was a man, the story of the talking bird, Jesus (peace be upon him) didn’t die on the cross), all which are in non-canon gospels, which where widely read by Christians until the council of Nicea.

These of Coarse these books were written by people who didnt believe jesus was God. (i forget the authors name) These books arent in the kjv But it is in the jehovahs witness bible as the believe jesus was a man that became God. It was not the christians that practiced this but the early religion that later seperated into jehovas witnesses and seven day adventists. Before he died the disciple luke read through many scriptures and sepearted the truethful from the phonies. The true christians used these.


Waraquah only met the prophet twice, and died 3 years after their first meeting. The revelations went on for 23 years. If the Roman Catholic Pope wanted to get the Arabs to attack rival Christian sects, it would be far more logical to convert them to Roman Catholicism, which is historically what we see in Europe.

If you look into the european history you will find that protestants and catholics fought tooth and nail and peace didnt come until the anglican church arrived which offered a cross between the two and king james established a bible to be all christians guide.


Goliwog should learn some Christian history before coming here.

You should learn how to spell my name :D lol just joking. well My christian history started somewhere in africa but I do no that all the true christians fled rome and hid from the catholics who would burn anyone who said mary wasnt like God. Have u heard the story of anabella? she was with child but the catholics murdered her simply because she said mary wasnt sinless (which was the catholic belief back then but not know) Because of this the christias went underground and socured the scripts for many years that is why there is little heard of the real followers of christ. I do know that we went underground for many years

abdul518ca
22-01-2005, 11:42 PM
These books arent in the kjv But it is in the jehovahs witness bible as the believe jesus was a man that became God
So the JW Bible isn't the true word of God, is it? :cheesygri

There are 124,000 manuscripts of the Bible present today, no 2 are the same. How are we supposed to know which is the true Bible manuscript?

RSV has verses which the KJV doesn't. :rolleyes: So is the RSV not from God either?

UTJAMS
23-01-2005, 12:49 AM
Asalaamo Aeikum;


Muslim error
1) Muhammad once said: “Satan touches every son of Adam save Mary and her son” (Muhammad by lings page 26) This isn’t even a Christian teaching it is a roman catholic heresy. Mary was not perfect she was just a handmaid of God. How do Muslims explain this? Why did Muhammad preach Catholicism?

Catholic influences?

Firstly,
What is your problem with the lady you call Mary, Maryam (MAGHP).
She did leave a great life, and as chosen by Allah to give birth and Mother a Prophet, the Prophet Isa (PBUH), the one you call Jesus.
She is no mere handmaid, she is a wonderfull pious lady, and brought up her son knowing all the time he was a prophet of Allah. She is an example of Motherhood, and I dislike your "she was just..." remark. Maryam (MAGHP) is one of the worlds greatest women, and no Protestant fringe group will dislodge her from the hearts of all Muslims.



1) Muhammad’s wife was Khadijah was a faithful roman catholic. Her cousin Waraquah was also Roman Catholic. Waraquah a catholic once said verily, “Muhammad is the prophet f his people”. They were most likely both under the order of the Jesuit priests (explained below)

Khadijah starved to death in exile, because she knew the truth, she knew Muhammad (SAW) was the Prophet of Allah and had been sent a message to recite that would never be alterted and last through the ages, He was the prophet as promised by Musa, Isa and the other prophets (PBUT).


2) When Muhammad was nine he was also with his uncle on a caravan . A Roman catholic monk saw the boy and questioned him. He saw the mark on Muhammad’s back and claimed it was the seal of prophet hood.

You do not know he was a Roman Catholic, but, whatever he was it turned out he was completely right.
Imagine that.


3) In the 5th year of Muhammad’s mission persecution cam against his followers because they refused to worship in kaaba. Negus a Roman catholic king (of Abyssinia) accepted them because Muhammad’s view of the virgin Mary suited there beliefs.

Muslims do not Worship 'Mary', or the one you call Jesus (PBUH), or Muhammad (SAW), or anyone other than Allah.
Allah alone deserves worship, and Allah deserves more Worship than asked of us.


Does anyone find it odd how Catholics are always hand in hand with the Muslims. And this is around the time that the protestants were rebelling against them was it not?
no, it wasn't!
'Protestantism' did not arrive on the scene for a few hundred years!
The great Schism hadn't even happened yet!



The Jesuits is a religious order who basically try to destroy religions from the inside. They believe that the Muslim and protestant religions are evil and the more damage they do in secret the faster they will get to heaven and less time in purgatory. They are very clever and often pose as good people of the religion. We know this from many confessed Jesuits who converted to Christianity. (particularly Alberto Rivera).

"Alberto Rivera, the alleged former Catholic priest, bishop, and anti-Catholic hero of Jack Chick comic strips, was exposed as a total fraud by non-Catholic (evangelical Protestant) Gary Metz, in two articles appearing in evangelical magazines"
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ343.HTM


Thank you for your time.

Wa Aleikum Mussalaam.

UTJAMS
23-01-2005, 01:12 AM
Assalaamo Aleikum,


These of Coarse these books were written by people who didnt believe jesus was God. (i forget the authors name) These books arent in the kjv But it is in the jehovahs witness bible as the believe jesus was a man that became God. It was not the christians that practiced this but the early religion that later seperated into jehovas witnesses and seven day adventists. Before he died the disciple luke read through many scriptures and sepearted the truethful from the phonies. The true christians used these.

The oldest form of Christianity is a Non-Catholic Group based in Egypt who has many many holy books, including one which tells of the man you call Jesus, the Prophet Isa (PBUH), telling of a Prophet called Muhammad (SAW) to come lafter him.

Coptic Christianity does not blindly follow the books of Paul/Saul.




If you look into the european history you will find that protestants and catholics fought tooth and nail and peace didnt come until the anglican church arrived which offered a cross between the two and king james established a bible to be all christians guide.

I'm sorry, thats just too funny!

Am I to gather that you are an Anglican?

Here was me living in an Island which has seen hundreds of Christians kill each other, when apparently, peace had come several Hundred years ago!
The Anglican bible is not the most used bible in the world, the catolic one is.

If the bible was the word of God.. why would there be so many different versions of it?

King James,
American Standard,
New American,
New International Version,
The Revised Standard Version,
The New Revised Standard Version!

When my grandmother, a christian, died, I was told that at the Church they were going to read a nice piece from the "book of Wisdom". I took my Aunts bible down from her attic and went looking for this book, it wasn't in her bible!
Apparently, Protestants have no Wisdom!
The Book of Wisdom is only in the Catholic and Coptic bibles!




You should learn how to spell my name :D lol just joking. well My christian history started somewhere in africa but I do no that all the true christians fled rome and hid from the catholics who would burn anyone who said mary wasnt like God. Have u heard the story of anabella? she was with child but the catholics murdered her simply because she said mary wasnt sinless (which was the catholic belief back then but not know) Because of this the christias went underground and socured the scripts for many years that is why there is little heard of the real followers of christ. I do know that we went underground for many years

Do seriously believe that Catholics, By far the largeest Christian are not actaully Christians?

I don't believe a lot of what the Shia say, But i would never say they are not Muslim.

The wahabbis may make Takfir on me, but I would never say they are not Muslim.

The Sufi's may do questionable things, and spin and dance and chant a lot, but to me they are still muslims, and my brothers and sisters.

Whyever do you dispise your fellow Christian brthren so much?

Wa Aleikum Mussalaam.

abeer_xyz
23-01-2005, 04:48 PM
Muhammad- Islam's greatest "prophet". Because the Roman Catholic church wanted to rule from Jerusalem instead of Rome, the Vatican needed a military machine to kill the Jews and true Christianity. The Vatican chose the children of Ishmael (Arabs) to do this dirty work. Vatican spies chose Muhammad, a brilliant young man of the Quraysh tribe in Mecca, to be the leader. Khadijah, a beautiful Roman Catholic, was ordered to marry Muhammad. Khadijah's Catholic cousin, Waraquah, interpreted and influenced Muhammad's "visions", so when Muhammad declared that there was no god but Allah, and when he claimed himself to be the prophet of Allah, Islam spread like a fire.So the brilliant young man made a peace treaty of union with the Jews at Medina in order to satisfy the need of the Catholics. Then the Koran criticized the Christian belief of trinity to realize the Catholic conspiracy. Did the Prophet turn to be a Frankenstein and attacked the creator?

Silver Sparrow
24-01-2005, 11:37 PM
why'd the posts get censored? :-\

goli
24-01-2005, 11:57 PM
When my grandmother, a christian, died, I was told that at the Church they were going to read a nice piece from the "book of Wisdom". I took my Aunts bible down from her attic and went looking for this book, it wasn't in her bible!
Apparently, Protestants have no Wisdom!
The Book of Wisdom is only in the Catholic and Coptic bibles!

Now thats funny the catholic bible has 7 extra books that were not in the origanla scripts I have done a debate on this ages ago check it out.
http://www.biblebash.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=201

Basically the book of wisdom was added to the origianal scripts


If the bible was the word of God.. why would there be so many different versions of it?

the one and only true bible was written in 1611 by kinj james it remained unchanged for 200 years until people translated it into modern english since then people have change the biblical scripts to suit there own beliefs but the Kjv is still the perferred and most accurate Bible around.


The oldest form of Christianity is a Non-Catholic Group based in Egypt who has many many holy books, including one which tells of the man you call Jesus, the Prophet Isa (PBUH), telling of a Prophet called Muhammad (SAW) to come lafter him.

Coptic Christianity does not blindly follow the books of Paul/Saul.

False
The earliest christians were at the time of the prophet enoch before noahs flood he prophesied the coming of christ in his book. Some ethipians still follw this religion.

Right now I think there is no convincing you about what is the truth because you have been brain washed with so many lies that it like throughing a cup of water on a bush fire

He that is unjust let him be unjust still, and he that is filthy let him be filthy still : and he that is righteous let him be rightoues still and he that is holy let him be holy still. Rev 22v11

You will see how right the christians are on the day of the rapture

For the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch angel and with the trump of Godand the dead in christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds , to meet the lord in the air and shall we ever be with the lord . 1 thess 4v16-17

So when you arent raptured You will realise that you have been left behind on that day God will give you a last chance to repent I pray to God that some of you will be saved May God be our judge....

abdul518ca
25-01-2005, 01:37 AM
the one and only true bible was written in 1611 by kinj james it remained unchanged for 200 years until people translated it into modern english since then people have change the biblical scripts to suit there own beliefs but the Kjv is still the perferred and most accurate Bible around.
So there was no such thing as a "true bible" before 1611? :cheesygri

Omar HH
25-01-2005, 01:58 AM
Assalaamo Aleikum,



The oldest form of Christianity is a Non-Catholic Group based in Egypt who has many many holy books, including one which tells of the man you call Jesus, the Prophet Isa (PBUH), telling of a Prophet called Muhammad (SAW) to come lafter him.

Coptic Christianity does not blindly follow the books of Paul/Saul.


Well I would disagree with that as well.

Really, if you look back at it, right after Jesus' death we have the very first Christians.


We must keep in mind that the first apostles were all Jews, and so were their first converts. For a time the Church remained completely Jewish, a sect within Israel of those who believed in the ressurection of Jesus and regarded him as the promised Messiah who was about to come again to definitively establish the reign of God.

Their new faith did not require them to break with the Temple or the LAw. In fact, the Acts of the Apostles emphasizes how faithful they were to daily prayer in the Temple.

P. 27 - A Concise History of the Catholic Church by Thomas Bokenkotter.

After this a huge debate comes between the "Jewish Christians" and the "Gentile Christians" about circumcision and eventually the position is that Jesus (SAWS) abrogated the law and that his ressurection was enough for the forgiveness of sin, which was the Pauline position.

If you want the FULL story, i'll be happy to type it out for you.

UmmZaid
25-01-2005, 04:39 PM
Goliwog:

You still don't have your Catholic learnin' straight. I'm not a fan of that church, but be opposed to them based on fact, not hysterical propaganda based on bigotry.

M: Isn't the adab of nasiha that it is given in private? If people I don't know from the other side of the world can manage to contact me in private, I'm sure you could. But thanks for the 70, I appreciate it.

mod: Brother mods are not encouraged to contact sisters in private to warn/remind them to adhere to the rules of SF... would have PMed it to you if had gotten to it... sorry.

Silver Sparrow
25-01-2005, 11:28 PM
the one and only true bible was written in 1611 by kinj james

James wrote the bible... of course!! it makes sense now! James was also God incarnate!! Now everything fits into place!

goli
10-02-2005, 10:54 AM
James wrote the bible... of course!! it makes sense now! James was also God incarnate!! Now everything fits into place!

Dont be silly lolKing james was a person that Put God first on his list and nothing more or less.


Well I would disagree with that as well.

Really, if you look back at it, right after Jesus' death we have the very first Christians.

true thats why some all it ce meaning christian error instead of A D.


So there was no such thing as a "true bible" before 1611?
thats like saying there was no correct quran before mahomad...

Muawiyah
10-02-2005, 06:44 PM
So there was no such thing as a "true bible" before 1611?
thats like saying there was no correct quran ...


but in terms of a scripture that is read by people, there was no Quran at all in this world before him. What you're saying is something entirely different. How can a correct bible be written 1611 years after the rapture of the Messiah, when its writer has neither met the Messiah and nor is he the apostolic successor of the Messiah? Weren't there any people before King james who put God first on their list?

Silver Sparrow
10-02-2005, 10:13 PM
Goliwog, have you had a sex change within the last 24 hours? Or am I seeing things?

"King james was a person that Put God first on his list and nothing more or less. "
Okay, I'm stumped.

goli
11-02-2005, 11:00 AM
well I think the first english translation was in 1011?? not sure but this was written in the english used at the time king james wrote the 1611 bible using the original manuscripts and the root meanings e.g he used ye which had died out by his time (ye being the plural for you in the bible) there are many more examples .... Luke was responsible for keeping the scripts I believe nemis said that by 1611 there were still 5000 copies of the original scripts still around that had been hidden for centuries.

and yes samirah I a man I was only told recently how to change it (i signed up incorrect by accident)

UTJAMS
11-02-2005, 08:32 PM
Salaam,

Why do you prpose God/Jesus (Isa, PBUH))/the Magic bird gave James, the two Mary's and the various other Desciples other Gospels, significantly different, and much much older from the KJV ?

How exactly do you suppose the libraries of Nag hamadi came about?