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Xaxerian
15-02-2005, 09:24 AM
Tolerance In Islam
By Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall

One of the commonest charges brought against Islam historically, and as a religion, by Western writers is that it is intolerant. This is turning the tables with a vengeance when one remembers various facts: One remembers that not a Muslim is left alive in Spain or Sicily or Apulia. One remembers that not a Muslim was left alive and not a mosque left standing in Greece after the great rebellion in l821. One remembers how the Muslims of the Balkan peninsula, once the majority, have been systematically reduced with the approval of the whole of Europe, how the Christian under Muslim rule have in recent times been urged on to rebel and massacre the Muslims, and how reprisals by the latter have been condemned as quite uncalled for.

In Spain under the Umayyads and in Baghdad under the Abbasid Khalifas, Christians and Jews, equally with Muslims, were admitted to the Schools and universities - not only that, but were boarded and lodged in hostels at the cost of the state. When the Moors were driven out of Spain, the Christian conquerors held a terrific persecution of the Jews. Those who were fortunate enough to escape fled, some of them to Morocco and many hundreds to the Turkish empire, where their descendants still live in separate communities, and still speak among themselves an antiquated form of Spanish. The Muslim empire was a refuge for all those who fled from persecution by the Inquisition.

The Western Christians, till the arrival of the Encyclopaedists in the eighteenth century, did not know and did not Care to know, what the Muslim believed, nor did the Western Christian seek to know the views of Eastern Christians with regard to them. The Christian Church was already split in two, and in the end, it came to such a pass that the Eastern Christians, as Gibbon shows, preferred Muslim rule, which allowed them to practice their own form of religion and adhere to their peculiar dogmas, to the rule of fellow Christians who would have made them Roman Catholics or wiped them out.

The Western Christians called the Muslims pagans, paynims, even idolaters - there are plenty of books in which they are described as worshiping an idol called Mahomet or Mahound, and in the accounts of the conquest of Granada there are even descriptions of the monstrous idols which they were alleged to worship - whereas the Muslims knew what Christianity was, and in what respects it differed from Islam. If Europe had known as much of Islam, as Muslims knew of Christendom, in those days, those mad, adventurous, occasionally chivalrous and heroic, but utterly fanatical outbreak known as the Crusades could not have taken place, for they were based on a complete misapprehension. I quote a learned French author:

"Every poet in Christendom considered a Mohammedan to be an infidel, and an idolater, and his gods to be three; mentioned in order, they were: Mahomet or Mahound or Mohammad, Opolane and the third Termogond. It was said that when in Spain the Christians overpowered the Mohammadans and drove them as far as the gates of the city of Saragossa, the Mohammadans went back and broke their idols.

"A Christian poet of the period says that Opolane the "god" of the Mohammadans, which was kept there in a den was awfully belabored and abused by the Mohammadans, who, binding it hand and foot, crucified it on a pillar, trampled it under their feet and broke it to pieces by beating it with sticks; that their second god Mahound they threw in a pit and caused to be torn to pieces by pigs and dogs, and that never were gods so ignominiously treated; but that afterwards the Mohammadans repented of their sins, and once more reinstated their gods for the accustomed worship, and that when the Emperor Charles entered the city of Saragossa he had every mosque in the city searched and had "Muhammad" and all their Gods broken with iron hammers."

That was the kind of "history" on which the populace in Western Europe used to be fed. Those were the ideas which inspired the rank and file of the crusader in their attacks on the most civilized peoples of those days. Christendom regarded the outside world as damned eternally, and Islam did not. There were good and tender-hearted men in Christendom who thought it sad that any people should be damned eternally, and wished to save them by the only way they knew - conversion to the Christian faith.

It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant; and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance and other evidences of the highest culture. Therefore the difference evident in that anecdote is not of manners only but of religion. Of old, tolerance had existed here and there in the world, among enlightened individuals; but those individuals had always been against the prevalent religion. Tolerance was regarded of un-religious, if not irreligious. Before the coming of Islam it had never been preached as an essential part of religion.

For the Muslims, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are but three forms of one religion, which, in its original purity, was the religion of Abraham: Al-Islam, that perfect Self-Surrender to the Will of God, which is the basis of Theocracy. The Jews, in their religion, after Moses, limited God's mercy to their chosen nation and thought of His kingdom as the dominion of their race.

Even Christ himself, as several of his sayings show, declared that he was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and seemed to regard his mission as to the Hebrews only; and it was only after a special vision vouchsafed to St. Peter that his followers in after days considered themselves authorized to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. The Christians limited God's mercy to those who believed certain dogmas. Every one who failed to hold the dogmas was an outcast or a miscreant, to be persecuted for his or her soul's good. In Islam only is manifest the real nature of the Kingdom of God.

The two verses (2:255-256) of the Qur'an are supplementary. Where there is that realization of the majesty and dominion of Allah (SWT), there is no compulsion in religion. Men choose their path - allegiance or opposition - and it is sufficient punishment for those who oppose that they draw further and further away from the light of truth.

What Muslims do not generally consider is that this law applies to our own community just as much as to the folk outside, the laws of Allah being universal; and that intolerance of Muslims for other men's opinions and beliefs is evidence that they themselves have, at the moment, forgotten the vision of the majesty and mercy of Allah which the Qur'an presents to them.

In the Qur'an I find two meanings (of a Kafir), which become one the moment that we try to realize the divine standpoint. The Kafir in the first place, is not the follower of any religion. He is the opponent of Allah's benevolent will and purpose for mankind - therefore the disbeliever in the truth of all religions, the disbeliever in all Scriptures as of divine revelation, the disbeliever to the point of active opposition in all the Prophets (pbut) whom the Muslims are bidden to regard, without distinction, as messengers of Allah.

The Qur'an repeatedly claims to be the confirmation of the truth of all religions. The former Scriptures had become obscure, the former Prophets appeared mythical, so extravagant were the legends which were told concerning them, so that people doubted whether there was any truth in the old Scriptures, whether such people as the Prophets had ever really existed. Here - says the Qur'an - is a Scripture whereof there is no doubt: here is a Prophet actually living among you and preaching to you. If it were not for this book and this Prophet, men might be excused for saying that Allah's guidance to mankind was all a fable. This book and this Prophet, therefore, confirm the truth of all that was revealed before them, and those who disbelieve in them to the point of opposing the existence of a Prophet and a revelation are really opposed to the idea of Allah's guidance - which is the truth of all revealed religions. Our Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself said that the term Kafir was not to be applied to anyone who said "Salam" (peace) to the Muslims. The Kafirs, in the terms of the Qur'an, are the conscious evil-doers of any race of creed or community.

I have made a long digression but it seemed to me necessary, for I find much confusion of ideas even among Muslims on this subject, owing to defective study of the Qur'an and the Prophet's life. Many Muslims seem to forget that our Prophet had allies among the idolaters even after Islam had triumphed in Arabia, and that he "fulfilled his treaty with them perfectly until the term thereof." The righteous conduct of the Muslims, not the sword, must be held responsible for the conversion of those idolaters, since they embraced Islam before the expiration of their treaty.

So much for the idolaters of Arabia, who had no real beliefs to oppose the teaching of Islam, but only superstition. They invoked their local deities for help in war and put their faith only in brute force. In this they were, to begin with, enormously superior to the Muslims. When the Muslims nevertheless won, they were dismayed; and all their arguments based on the superior power of their deities were for ever silenced. Their conversion followed naturally. It was only a question of time with the most obstinate of them.

It was otherwise with the people who had a respectable religion of their own - the People of the Scripture - as the Qur'an calls them - i.e, the people who had received the revelation of some former Prophet: the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians were those with whom the Muslims came at once in contact. To these our Prophet's attitude was all of kindness. The Charter which he granted to the Christian monks of Sinai is extant. If you read it you will see that it breathes not only goodwill but actual love. He gave to the Jews of Medina, so long as they were faithful to him, precisely the same treatment as to the Muslims. He never was aggressive against any man or class of men; he never penalized any man, or made war on any people, on the ground of belief but only on the ground of conduct.

The story of his reception of Christian and Zoroastrian visitors is on record. There is not a trace of religious intolerance in all this. And it should be remembered - Muslims are rather apt to forget it, and it is of great importance to our outlook - that our Prophet did not ask the people of the Scripture to become his followers. He asked them only to accept the Kingdom of Allah, to abolish priesthood and restore their own religions to their original purity. The question which, in effect, he put to everyone was this: "Are you for the Kingdom of God which includes all of us, or are you for your own community against the rest of mankind?" The one is obviously the way of peace and human progress, the other the way of strife, oppression and calamity. But the rulers of the world, to whom he sent his message, most of them treated it as the message of either an insolent upstart or a mad fanatic. His envoys were insulted cruelly, and even slain. One cannot help wondering what reception that same embassy would meet with from the rulers of mankind today, when all the thinking portion of mankind accept the Prophet's premises, have thrown off the trammels of priestcraft, and harbor some idea of human brotherhood.

But though the Christians and Jews and Zoroastrians refused his message, and their rulers heaped most cruel insults on his envoys, our Prophet never lost his benevolent attitudes towards them as religious communities; as witness the Charter to the monks of Sinai already mentioned. And though the Muslims of later days have fallen far short of the Holy Prophet's tolerance, and have sometimes shown arrogance towards men of other faiths, they have always given special treatment to the Jews and Christians. Indeed the Laws for their special treatment form part of the Shari'ah.

In Egypt the Copts were on terms of closest friendship with the Muslims in the first centuries of the Muslim conquest, and they are on terms at closest friendship with the Muslims at the present day. In Syria the various Christian communities lived on terms of closest friendship with the Muslims in the first centuries of the Muslim conquest, and they are on terms of closest friendship with the Muslims at the present day, openly preferring Muslim domination to a foreign yoke.

There were always flourishing Jewish communities in the Muslim realm, notably in Spain, North Africa, Syria, Iraq and later on in Turkey. Jews fled from Christian persecution to Muslim countries for refuge. Whole communities of them voluntarily embraced Islam following a revered rabbi whom they regarded as the promised Messiah but many more remained as Jews, and they were never persecuted as in Christendom. The Turkish Jews are one with the Turkish Muslims today. And it is noteworthy that the Arabic-speaking Jews of Palestine - the old immigrants from Spain and Poland - are one with the Muslims and Christians in opposition to the transformation of Palestine into a national home for the Jews.

To turn to the Christians, the story of the triumphal entry of the Khalifah Umar ibn al-Khattab into Jerusalem has been often told, but I shall tell it once again, for it illustrates the proper Muslim attitude towards the People of the Scripture....The Christian officials urged him to spread his carpet in the Church (of the Holy Sepulchre) itself, but he refused saying that some of the ignorant Muslims after him might claim the Church and convert it into a mosque because he had once prayed there. He had his carpet carried to the top of the steps outside the church, to the spot where the Mosque of Umar now stands - the real Mosque of Umar, for the splendid Qubbet-us-Sakhrah, which tourists call the Mosque of Umar, is not a Mosque at all, but the temple of Jerusalem; a shrine within the precincts of the Masjid-al-Aqsa, which is the second of the Holy Places of Islam.

From that day to this; the Church of the Holy Sepulchre has always been a Christian place of worship, the only things the Muslims did in the way of interference with the Christian's liberty of conscience in respect of it was to see that every sect of Christians had access to it, and that it was not monopolized by one sect to the exclusion of others. The same is true of the Church of the Nativity of Bethlehem, and of other buildings of special sanctity.

Under the Khulafa-ur-Rashidin and the Umayyads, the true Islamic attitude was maintained, and it continued to a much later period under the Umayyad rule in Spain. In those days it was no uncommon thing for Muslims and Christian to use the same places of worship. I could point to a dozen buildings in Syria which tradition says were thus conjointly used; and I have seen at Lud (Lydda), in the plain of Sharon, a Church of St. George and a mosque under the same roof with only a partition wall between. The partition wall did not exist in early days. The words of the Khalifah Umar proved true in other cases; not only half the church at Lydda, but the whole church in other places was claimed by ignorant Muslims of a later day on the mere ground that the early Muslims had prayed there. But there was absolute liberty of conscience for the Christians; they kept their most important Churches and built new ones; though by a later edict their church bells were taken from them because their din annoyed the Muslims, it was said; only the big bell of the Holy Sepulchre remaining. They used to call to prayer by beating a naqus, a wooden gong, the same instrument which the Prophet Noah (pbuh) is said to have used to summon the chosen few into his ark.

It was not the Christians of Syria who desired the Crusades , nor did the Crusades care a jot for them, or their sentiments, regarding them as heretics and interlopers. The latter word sounds strange in this connection, but there is a reason for its use.

The great Abbasid Khalifah Harun ar-Rashid had, God knows why, once sent the keys of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre among other presents to the Frankish Emperor, Charlemagne. Historically, it was a wrong to the Christians of Syria, who did not belong to the Western Church, and asked for no protection other than the Muslim government. Politically, it was a mistake and proved the source of endless after trouble to the Muslim Empire. The keys sent, it is true, were only duplicate keys. The Church was in daily use. It was not locked up till such time as Charlemagne, Emperor of the West, chose to lock it. The present of the keys was intended only as a compliment, as one would say: "You and your people can have free access to the Church which is the center of your faith, your goal of pilgrimage, whenever you may come to visit it." But the Frankish Christians took the present seriously in after times regarding it as the title to a freehold, and looking on the Christians of the country as mere interlopers, as I said before, as well as heretics.

That compliment from king to king was the foundation of all the extravagant claims of France in later centuries. Indirectly it was the foundation of Russia's even more extortionate claims, for Russia claimed to protect the Eastern Church against the encroachment of Roman Catholics; and it was the cause of nearly all the ill feeling which ever existed between the Muslims and their Christians Dhimmis.

When the Crusaders took Jerusalem they massacred the Eastern Christians with the Muslims indiscriminately, and while they ruled in Palestine the Eastern Christians, such of them as did not accompany the retreating Muslim army, were deprived of all the privileges which Islam secured to them and were treated as a sort of outcasters. Many of them became Roman Catholics in order to secure a higher status; but after the re-conquest, when the emigrants returned, the followers of the Eastern church were found again to be in large majority over those who owed obedience to the Pope of Rome. The old order was reestablished and all the Dhimmis once again enjoyed their privileges in accordance with the Sacred Law (of Islam).

But the effect of those fanatical inroads had been somewhat to embitter Muslim sentiments, and to ting them with an intellectual contempt for the Christian generally; which was bad for Muslims and for Christians both; since it made the former arrogant and oppressive to the latter socially, and the intellectual contempt, surviving the intellectual superiority, blinded the Muslims to the scientific advance of the West till too late.

The arrogance hardened into custom, and when Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt occupied Syria in the third decade of the nineteenth century, a deputation of the Muslims of Damascus waited on him with a complaint that under his rule the Christians were beginning to ride on horseback. Ibrahim Pasha pretended to be greatly shocked at the news, and asked leave to think for a whole night on so disturbing an announcement. Next morning, he informed the deputation that since it was, of course, a shame for Christians to ride as high as Muslims, he gave permission to all Muslims thenceforth to ride on camels. That was probably the first time that the Muslims of Damascus had ever been brought face to face with the absurdity of their pretentions.

By the beginning of the Eighteenth century AD, the Christians had, by custom, been made subject to certain social disabilities, but these were never, at the worst, so cruel or so galling as those to which the Roman Catholic nobility of France at the same period subjected their own Roman Catholic peasantry, or as those which Protestants imposed on Roman Catholics in Ireland; and they weighed only on the wealthy portion of the community. The poor Muslims and poor Christians were on an equality, and were still good friends and neighbors.

The Muslims never interfered with the religion of the subject Christians. (e.g., The Treaty of Orihuela, Spain, 713.) There was never anything like the Inquisition or the fires of Smithfield. Nor did they interfere in the internal affairs of their communities. Thus a number of small Christian sects, called by the larger sects heretical, which would inevitably have been exterminated if left to the tender mercies of the larger sects whose power prevailed in Christendom, were protected and preserved until today by the power of Islam.

Innumerable monasteries, with a wealth of treasure of which the worth has been calculated at not less than a hundred millions sterling, enjoyed the benefit of the Holy Prophet's Charter to the monks of Sinai and were religiously respected by the Muslims. The various sects of Christians were represented in the Council of the Empire by their patriarchs, on the provincial and district council by their bishops, in the village council by their priests, whose word was always taken without question on things which were the sole concern of their community.

With regard to the respect for monasteries, I have a curious instance of my own remembrance. In the year 1905 the Arabic congregation of the Greek Orthodox Church in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, or Church of the Resurrection as it is locally called, rebelled against the tyranny of the Monks of the adjoining convent of St. George. The convent was extremely rich, and a large part of its revenues was derived from lands which had been made over to it by the ancestors of the Arab congregation for security at a time when property was insecure; relying on the well known Muslim reverence for religious foundations. The income was to be paid to the depositors and their descendants, after deducting something for the convent.

No income had been paid to anybody by the Monks for more than a century, and the congregation now demanded that at least a part of that ill-gotten wealth should be spent on education of the community. The Patriarch sided with the congregation, but was captured by the Monks, who kept him prisoner. The congregation tried to storm the convent, and the amiable monk poured vitriol down upon the faces of the congregation. The congregation appealed to the Turkish government, which secured the release of the Patriarch and some concessions for the congregation, but could not make the monks disgorge any part of their wealth because of the immunities secured to Monasteries by the Sacred Law (of Islam). What made the congregation the more bitter was the fact that certain Christians who, in old days, had made their property over to the Masjid al-Aqsa - the great mosque of Jerusalem - for security, were receiving income yearly from it even then.

Here is another incident from my own memory. A sub-prior of the Monastery of St. George purloined a handful from the enormous treasure of the Holy Sepulchre - a handful worth some forty thousand pounds - and tried to get away with it to Europe. He was caught at Jaffa by the Turkish customs officers and brought back to Jerusalem. The poor man fell on his face before the Mutasarrif imploring him with tears to have him tried by Turkish Law. The answer was: "We have no jurisdiction over monasteries," and the poor groveling wretch was handed over to the tender mercies of his fellow monks.

But the very evidence of their toleration, the concessions given to the subject people of another faith, were used against them in the end by their political opponents just as the concessions granted in their day of strength to foreigners came to be used against them in their day of weakness, as capitulations.

I can give you one curious instance of a capitulation, typical of several others. Three hundred years ago, the Franciscan friars were the only Western European missionaries to be found in the Muslim Empire. There was a terrible epidemic of plague, and those Franciscans worked devotedly, tending the sick and helping to bury the dead of all communities. In gratitude for this great service, the Turkish government decreed that all property of the Franciscans should be free of customs duty for ever. In the Firman (Edict) the actual words used were "Frankish missionaries" and at later time, when there were hundreds of missionaries from the West, most of them of other sects than the Roman Catholic, they all claimed that privilege and were allowed it by the Turkish government because the terms of the original Firman included them. Not only that, but they claimed that concession as a right, as if it had been won for them by force of arms or international treaty instead of being, as it was, a free gift of the Sultan; and called upon their consuls and ambassadors to support them strongly if it was at all infringed.

The Christians were allowed to keep their own languages and customs, to start their own schools and to be visited by missionaries to their own faith from Christendom. Thus they formed patches of nationalism in a great mass of internationalism or universal brotherhood; for as I have already said the tolerance within the body of Islam was, and is, something without parallel in history; class and race and color ceasing altogether to be barriers.

In countries where nationality and language were the same in Syria, Egypt and Mesopotamia there was no clash of ideals, but in Turkey, where the Christians spoke quite different languages from the Muslims, the ideals were also different. So long as the nationalism was un-aggressive, all went well; and it remained un-aggressive - that is to say, the subject Christians were content with their position - so long as the Muslim Empire remained better governed, more enlightened and more prosperous than Christian countries. And that may be said to have been the case, in all human essentials, up to the beginning of the seventeenth century.

Then for a period of about eighty years the Turkish Empire was badly governed; and the Christians suffered not from Islamic Institutions but from the decay or neglect of Islamic Institutions. Still it took Russia more than a century of ceaseless secret propaganda work to stir ups spirit of aggressive nationalism in the subject Christians, and then only by appealing to their religious fanaticism.

After the eighty years of bad government came the era of conscious reform, when the Muslim government turned its attention to the improvement of the status of all the peoples under it. But then it was too late to win back the Serbs, the Greeks, the Bulgars and the Romans. The poison of the Russian religious-political propaganda had done its work, and the prestige of Russian victories over the Turks had excited in the worst elements among the Christians of the Greek Church, the hope of an early opportunity to slaughter and despoil the Muslims, strengthening the desire to do so which had been instilled in them by Russian secret envoys, priests and monks.

I do not wish to dwell upon this period of history, though it is to me the best known of all, for it is too recent and might rouse too strong a feeling in my audience. I will only remind you that in the Greek War of Independence in 1811, three hundred thousand Muslims - men and women and children - the whole Muslim population of the Morea without exception, as well as many thousands in the northern parts of Greece - were wiped out in circumstances of the most atrocious cruelty; that in European histories we seldom find the slightest mention of that massacre, though we hear much of the reprisals which the Turks took afterwards; that before every massacre of Christians by Muslims of which you read, there was a more wholesale massacre or attempted massacre of Muslims by Christians; that those Christians were old friends and neighbors of the Muslims - the Armenians were the favorites of the Turks till fifty years ago - and that most of them were really happy under Turkish rule, as has been shown again and again by their tendency to return to it after so called liberation.

It was the Christians outside the Muslim Empire who systematically and continually fed their religious fanaticism: it was their priests who told them that to slaughter Muslims was a meritorious act. I doubt if anything so wicked can be found in history as that plot for the destruction of Turkey. When I say "wicked," I mean inimical to human progress and therefore against Allah's guidance and His purpose for mankind. For it has made religious tolerance appear a weakness in the eyes of all the worldlings, because the multitudes of Christians who lived peacefully in Turkey are made to seem the cause of Turkey's martyrdom and downfall; while on the other hand the method of persecution and extermination which has always prevailed in Christendom is made to seem comparatively strong and wise.

[The remaining portion of the article is included in the next post, due to space constraints in the current one.]

Xaxerian
15-02-2005, 09:26 AM
[The remaining portion of the above article is continued below]

Thus religious tolerance is made to seem a fault, politically. But it is not really so. The victims of injustice are always less to be pitied in reality than the perpetrators of injustice.

From the expulsion of the Moriscos dates the degradation and decline of Spain: San Fernando was really wiser and more patriotic in his tolerance to conquered Seville, Murcia and Toledo than was the later king who, under the guise of Holy warfare, captured Grenada and let the Inquisition work its will upon the Muslims and the Jews. And the modern Balkan States and Greece are born under a curse. It may even prove that the degradation and decline of European civilization will be dated from the day when so-called civilized statesmen agreed to the inhuman policy of Czarist Russia and gave their sanction to the crude fanaticism of the Russian Church.

There is no doubt but that, in the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people. Let no Muslim, when looking on the ruin of the Muslim realm which was compassed through the agency of those very peoples whom the Muslims had tolerated and protected through the centuries when Western Europe thought it a religious duty to exterminate or forcibly convert all peoples of another faith than theirs - let no Muslim, seeing this, imagine that toleration is a weakness in Islam. It is the greatest strength of Islam because it is the attitude of truth.

Allah (SWT) is not the God of the Jews or the Christians or the Muslims only, any more than the sun shines or the rain falls for Jews or Christians or Muslims only.

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall was an Englishman, an orientalist, and a Muslim who translated the meaning of the Holy Qur'an. His translation was first published in 1930 and he was supported in this effort by His Highness, the Nizam of Hyderabad (the ruler of Deccan, in the South), India. Pickthall traveled extensively to several Muslim countries, including Syria, Palestine, Turkey, Egypt, Arabia and India. He spent several years in India and had interacted with the Muslims of India.

Omar HH
15-02-2005, 07:44 PM
There are darkspots in our history as there are darkspots on Jewish history and darkspots on Catholic history and Protestant history and the list goes on.

God-willing I will clarify some things (in a non-modernist and non-Wahhabi perspective) at a later point today.

The actions of certain Muslims throughout history, as undoubtebly been not the ideal, to say the least.

Pro-History
15-02-2005, 07:48 PM
True, Ohossino.

For there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. --Kohelet (Ecclesiastes) 7:20

Respectfully,
History

Omar HH
15-02-2005, 08:03 PM
First of all, in our legal tradition at least:




1. Salman (Allah be pleased with him) told Abu'd Darda' (Allah be pleased with him), "Give everyone who has a right over you their right. "The Prophet, when he heard this, said, "Salman spoke the truth." [Bukhari 1832, Tirmidhi 2337]

2. Anyone one deals with gets rights over us: our family (close and extended), neighbors (Muslim and non-Muslim), friends, acquaintances, co-workers, people one has commercial dealings with, customers...

Each of these are owed general rights (such as dealing with them with good character, wanting the best for them, giving them sincere advice, not cheating them, etc.) and particular rights depending on the nature of the relationship and its legal weight (e.g. the rights owed one's spouse are very different from those owed to an acquaintance).

3. The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said, "None of you [truly] believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." [Bukhari 12, Muslim 64, and others, from Anas (Allah be pleased with him)]

The scholars mention that

(a) This refers to the perfection of belief, not its essential reality.

(b) The brotherhood mentioned in this hadiths is at many levels (each with its appropriate degree of love), one who which is the "brotherhood of humanity" in which one must love for all humans what one loves for oneself of faith, and, fair & upright dealings, and good treatment.

The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) was sent as a mercy to all creation, not just Muslims… - Sunnipath.com

And


Rights of the Neighbour

1. Deal with him in a nice and friendly manner .

2. Protect the honour of his wife and children .

3. Occasionally you should send gifts to his house . Especially if he is poor.In such a case you should definitely send some food to him .

4. Do not cause him any harm . Do not quarrel with him over trivial matters .

Rights of the Travelling Companion

1. Just as a person has a neighbour at home, he also has a neighbour when travelling. That is, a travelling companion with whom you embark on a journey or coincidentally joins you during the course of the journey . The rights of such a person are similar to those of a neighbour.

2. His rights can be summed up as follows: give preference to his comfort over your own comfort . Some people display a lot of selfishness with regard to other travellers when travelling by train or other modes of public transportation . This is a very evil habit .

Rights of the Weak and Old

Those people who are in need, such as orphans, widows, the weak, the poor, the sick, the cripple, travellers, beggars, etc. have additional rights . They are:

1. You should help them financially .
2 . You should undertake their tasks with your own hands and legs .
3 . You should console and comfort them .
4 . You should not refuse to fulfil their needs and wants .

Rights of Human beings

1. Do not cause financial or physical harm to innocent people .
2 . Do not argue with anyone without any valid Shar'î reason .

3. If you find someone in problem, in poverty, or sick, help him, feed him, treat his sickness .
4 . When meting out punishment, do not transgress the limits in the different methods of punishment that have been laid down in the Sharî‘ah. - Heavenly Ornaments by Imam Ashraf Ali al-Tahanawi (Quoted in Sunnipath.com)

So anyways, thats our legal tradition on the matter. Yes, I do admit there were opinions in the history of the cannons Islamic law, valid opinions, which included things such as "non-Muslims must walk on the side of road" etc. and there have been that share of opinions in every religion's legal tradition (even every country's, for example look at the United States and slavery etc.).

For those opinions you can read "The Relliance of the Traveler" by Ibn Naqib al-Misri, translated by Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

May Allah (SWT) give us all that is good from us, and protect us from all harm.

In a later post, again, I will discuss the historio-practical aspect.

Muawiyah
15-02-2005, 08:51 PM
Islamically speaking, there can be no equality between Muslim and non-Muslim citizens in an Islamic state because there IS no equality. The one who choses to reject the truth is inferior.

Is the one who believes like the one who is a transgressor? They are not similar. (as-Sajdah ayah 18)

Contrast this with Judaism, where a Jew is the son of a Jewish mother, and superior to all gentiles (who are no more than animals), not because of what he chooses to believe in, but merely because of his ancestry, even though he may reject the existence of God!

As for claims of oppression of Jews, here's a relevant extract from "The Dispersion of Egyptian Jewry" by Joel Beinin

The Neo-Lachrymose Conception of Jewish-Arab history

Bat-Ye or (Daughter of the Nile, pseudonym of Giselle Littman) is an
Egyptian Jew living in Switzerland since 1956 and a leading exponent of
what Mark Cohen has termed the neo-lachrymose conception of Jewish-Arab
history: a gloomy representation of Jewish life in the lands of Islam
that emphasizes the continuity of oppression and persecution from the
time of Muhammad until the demise of most Arab Jewish communities in the
aftermath of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Bat Ye or was one of the
earliest authors to adopt this perspective as a comprehensive
understanding of the history of the Jews of Egypt, which she first
presented in a short book, /Les juifs en Egypte: Aperçu sur 3000 ans
d'histoire./ An expanded Hebrew version of the book was published in
1974 by Ma ariv Library and the World Jewish Congress on the initiative
of the [Israeli] Ministry of Education and Culture with the
participation of the Department for Sephardic Communities of the World
Zionist Organization. The imprimatur of major institutions of the state
of Israel, the Zionist movement, world Jewry, and the publishing house
of a mass circulation newspaper signified the consecration of Bat-Ye
or's neo-lachrymose perspective as the normative Zionist interpretation
of the history of Jews in Egypt.

Prior to 1948, leading individuals and institutions of the Jewish
community, including those who considered themselves Zionists, proudly
embraced a more positive view of the long history of the Jews in Egypt.
The neo-lachrymose historical perspective of Bat-Ye or and others was
expounded as a conscious challenge to this earlier self-image. Drawing
its authority from Bat-Ye or's claim to authenticity as an Egyptian Jew,
this historical vision has won broad acceptance among both scholars and
the general public in Israel and the West. The prominence and
credibility of the neo-lachrymose view of Egyptian Jewish history were
enabled, at least in part, by the near silence observed by Egyptian Jews
about their lives in Egypt from 1948 until the late 1970s.

Building his argument around the role of Bat-Ye or, Mark Cohen argues
that the neo-lachrymose thesis was generated by popular works published
by Jews living outside Israel. But Cohen minimizes and homogenizes two
distinctly Israeli sources of the neo-lachrymose perspective: Zionist
concern to counter the claims of the resurgent Palestinian nationalist
movement after 1967 and the desire of Middle Eastern Jews to redress the
discrimination and mistreatment they suffered as new immigrants in
Israel during the 1950s and 1960s.

Palestinian Arab claims of dispossession by Israel, relegated to the
bottom of the international agenda since the mid-1950s, began to receive
considerable international attention once again after the 1967 war. The
neo-lachrymose interpretation of Jewish Arab history distracted
attention from Palestinian claims by constructing a narrative focusing
on the eternal suffering of Jews under Muslim rule. Some adherents of
this approach suggested that even if it were true that the Palestinian
Arabs had been dispossessed, a roughly equivalent number of Middle
Eastern Jews had fled their homes and lost their property. Consequently,
the Palestinians had no valid claim against Israel.

Middle Eastern Jews living in Israel (commonly agglomerated as Mizrahim,
or Orientals, sing. Mizrahi) generally shared the objective of
reinforcing the Zionist case against the Arab world, but they also had
their own agenda. A narrative emphasizing the unrelenting suffering of
Jews in the Arab world established the claim of these Jews to a status
in Israeli society comparable to the Ashkenazi survivers of the mass
murder of European Jewry. Affirming their victimization in the Arab
world allowed Mizrahim to distance themselves from any Arab cultural
attachments, which are widely regarded in Israel as symptoms of
backwardness. Sometimes the transformation of attitudes toward the Arab
world was quite self-consciously understood as the price of admission to
Israeli society. For example, at a demonstration protesting a racist
assault on Palestinian Arabs living in the Ramat Amidar neighborhood of
Ramat Gan (colloquially known as Ramat Baghdad because of its high
concentration of Iraqi Jews), one woman spontaneously remarked to me, In
Baghdad we got along fine with the Arabs. But here we have to fight them.

The neo-lachrymose interpretation of Jewish Arab history also allowed
Mizrahim to claim a role as active members of the Zionist movement and
thereby assert their full participation in the mainstream of Jewish
national history as presented in the Zionist narrative. Until the 1970s,
the dominant school in Israeli and Jewish history portrayed Zionism as
the achievement of Ashkenazi Jewry. Minimal participation in the Zionist
movement was considered yet another expression of the backwardness of
Mizrahim. But if Mizrahim had their own long history of diasporic
oppression, this could logically be linked to a claim to have
independently arrived at the Zionist solution to the Jewish problem.
Asserting that Zionism was not merely a narrative about the crisis of
European Jews and its resolution and that there had also been an
independent Middle Eastern Zionist movement provided Mizrahim in Israel
with a lever to reverse the negative evaluations of their history and
culture that predominated during the years of MAPAI (Israeli Workers'
Party, subsequently the Labor Party) rule and buttressed their claims to
equal status with Ashkenazim.

Another important Israeli source for the neo-lachrymose perspective was
the work of Yehoshafat Harkabi. Shortly after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war,
he published a book arguing that the Arabs completely rejected any
negotiated resolution to the conflict with Israel (in fact, they
rejected resolutions on terms acceptable to the activist current in
Israeli politicomilitary thinking promoted by Israel's first prime
minister, David Ben-Gurion). Although Harkabi addressed only
Arab-Israeli relations since 1948, his cataloging of instances of Arab
anti-Semitism and his insistence that the Arabs viewed the conflict as a
fundamental clash of destinies that allowed for no compromise encouraged
his audience to believe that a conflict so intense must have deep
historical roots. Although this was not his primary purpose, Harkabi's
work inclined Israelis and others to imagine the intense conflict over
Palestine as one more instance of Arab and Muslim enmity toward Jews.

The broad political and cultural context for the translation and
subsidization of Bat-Ye or's work by the Israeli government in 1974 is
the emergence of a new school of Israeli historical writing that
integrates the previously marginalized history of Middle Eastern Jews
into the Israeli national narrative. The two central themes of that
narrative are the relentless oppression and suffering of Jews in the
diaspora and the modern secular redemption of Jews by Zionism. When
Israeli public culture began to consider accepting Mizrahim as something
other than primitives who should assimilate to Ashkenazi and /tzabar/
(native Israeli) norms, the neo-lachrymose conception of Jewish Arab
history provided a readily acceptable basis for acknowledging the
history and culture of Middle Eastern Jews as a permanent, though not
fully equal, element of Israeli society.
________________________________

As for the expulsion of jews from Arab lands, that has a lot to do with Israeli terrorist operations using local jews, such as the Operation Susannah (http://www.allaboutpalestine.com/The_Lavon_Affair.html).

Omar HH
15-02-2005, 09:48 PM
Islamically speaking, there can be no equality between Muslim and non-Muslim citizens in an Islamic state because there IS no equality. The one who choses to reject the truth is inferior.

Is the one who believes like the one who is a transgressor? They are not similar. (as-Sajdah ayah 18)

It must be put in it's proper context. Muslims and non-Muslim citizens are not equivilant. Meaning they are not treated the exact same under all laws.

Jews and Christians are allowed to consume alcohol, not preform the Muslim prayers, not fast, eat pork, not serve in the army, etc.

Yet Muslims could face punishment if found drinking alcohol, not performing the Muslim prayers, not fasting, eating pork, and dodging the army.

The verse of the Qur'an quoted above refers to the Day of Judgement, as explained in Tafsir ibn Kathir,


Allah tells us that in His justice and generosity, on the Day of Judgement He will not judge those who believed in His signs and followed His Messengers, in the same way as He will judge those who rebelled, disobeyed Him and rejected the Messengers sent by Allah to them. This is like the Ayat:

[أَمْ حَسِبَ الَّذِينَ اجْتَرَحُواْ السَّيِّئَـتِ أَن نَّجْعَلَهُمْ كَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَـتِ سَوَآءً مَّحْيَـهُمْ وَمَمَـتُهُمْ سَآءَ مَا يَحْكُمُونَ ]

(Or do those who earn evil deeds think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe and do righteous good deeds, in their present life and after their death Worst is the judgement that they make.) (45:21),

[أَمْ نَجْعَلُ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَـتِ كَالْمُفْسِدِينَ فِى الاٌّرْضِ أَمْ نَجْعَلُ الْمُتَّقِينَ كَالْفُجَّارِ ]

(Shall We treat those who believe and do righteous good deeds as corruptors on earth Or shall We treat those who have Taqwa as the wicked) (38:28)

[لاَ يَسْتَوِى أَصْحَـبُ النَّارِ وَأَصْحَـبُ الْجَنَّةِ]

(Not equal are the dwellers of the Fire and the dwellers of the Paradise...) (59:20). Allah says:

[أَفَمَن كَانَ مُؤْمِناً كَمَن كَانَ فَاسِقاً لاَّ يَسْتَوُونَ ]

(Is then he who is a believer like him who is a rebellious Not equal are they. ) i.e., before Allah on the Day of Resurrection. `Ata' bin Yasar, As-Suddi and others mentioned that this was revealed concerning `Ali bin Abi Talib and `Uqbah bin Abi Mu`it. Hence Allah has judged between them when He said:

[أَمَّا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَـتِ]

(As for those who believe and do righteous good deeds,) meaning, their hearts believed in the signs of Allah, and they did as the signs of Allah dictate, i.e. righteous good deeds.

[فَلَهُمْ جَنَّـتُ الْمَأْوَى]

(for them are Gardens of Abode) i.e., in which there are dwellings and houses and lofty apartments.

[نُزُلاً]

(as an entertainment) means, something to welcome and honor a guest,

[بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَوَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فَسَقُواْ]

(for what they used to do. And as for those who rebel,) means, those who disobeyed Allah, their dwelling place will be the Fire, and every time they want to escape from it, they will be thrown back in...

Muawiyah
15-02-2005, 10:04 PM
Yet again, accusations without basis in fact.

This is something well known, search google for: Israel Shamir gentile animals


your denial of the "unfortunate" interactions between Muslims and Jews in MUslim lands in the past is akin to Holocaust denial.

That might work on westerners but people in Karachi cannot be emotionally blackmailed by shouting "Holocaust denial". In my POV it is really ungrateful for the jews to deny the fact that they found protection under Islamic governments after being driven out from Christian ones.

Omar HH
15-02-2005, 10:44 PM
While you do not deny your Islamic belief that non-Muslims are inferior and can never be treated as equals (which is an ethical failing both per G-d's Teachings per Torah I know as a Jew-- and by the common ethics, justice and morality of today, at least in democratic nations)

"Never be treated as equals" needs to be put in it's proper context. Can men and women be treated the same way in everything exactly under the law? No because different things apply to men that apply to women. If Jews and Christians were treated exactly the same way under the law of a Muslim state, Jews would complain when they were imprisoned for not praying Muslim prayers, or for not fasting Ramadan!

As for the so-called belief that non-Muslims are inferior, Shaykh Faraz Rabbani says"




The scholars mention that there are two things:

1. The person themselves;

2. Their actions.

The rulings of the Shariah relate to human actions (outward and inward, such as disbelief). As such, our love, hate, respect and dislike relate to actions. There are many verses and hadiths that indicate this meaning.

As for the person themselves, they are the creation of Allah…

In the end it is Allah (SWT) who will judge our actions on the Day of Judgement.

May God grant you all that is good, and prevent you from all harm.

Pro-History
18-02-2005, 02:09 AM
Dear Ohosinno
Thank you for your post.

"Never be treated as equals" needs to be put in it's proper context. Can men and women be treated the same way in everything exactly under the law? No because different things apply to men that apply to women. If Jews and Christians were treated exactly the same way under the law of a Muslim state, Jews would complain when they were imprisoned for not praying Muslim prayers, or for not fasting Ramadan!
Non sequitor.
The issue is equality between Muslims and non-Muslims in regard to freedom of religion (to profess and practice equally without fear), of speech, of occupation, of governmental representation, of education, of travel, of home ownership, of equality in civil testimony, of equal judgement for the same fault and equal reward for the same achievement--and forbidding of humiliation or oppression in dress, speech, living.
This has not, historically, been possible for non-Muslims under Muslim rule, due to a falsely perceived superiority based on assumed entitlement by professing Muslim faith and not on righteous action (which no single religion can claim sole property--at least per Jewish teaching which emphasizes deed over professed belief).

Respectfully,
History

P.S. Ohossino, contrary to your assertion when you asked me to post here, I am not seeing any differencein the nature of the Muslim posters here than at ummah.com.

Omar HH
18-02-2005, 02:35 AM
Muawiyah.
You write:

You again speak in ignorance.
There is no such teaching in Hebrew Scripture.
Provide the Scriptural reference, please.

Contrast, however, with the Quran which refers to Jews as apes (7:166) and teach children that Jews are "pigs and monkeys" (5:59-60)? And a Hadith that states it is permissable to kill Jews.
http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/display.asp?Lang=eng&ID=1660
http://www.ourjerusalem.com/arabpress/story/arabpress20040921.html
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html

Respectfully,
History

You know your own scriptures better than we do obviously. I would be grateful for you to dispel any misconceptions.

As for the Qur'an saying Jews are "apes, pigs and monkeys" this is definetly taken totally out context and extremely unfair to the Qur'an. But I thank you for asking us about them because only through asking are misconceptions dispelled. Unfortunately some Wahhabi Muslims use these verses in very anti-Semetic sermons. The true explanation is as follows:

As for the Qur'an verse 7:166 it says:

YUSUFALI: When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
PICKTHAL: So when they took pride in that which they had been forbidden, We said unto them: Be ye apes despised and loathed!
SHAKIR: Therefore when they revoltingly persisted in what they had been forbidden, We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.

The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir explains:
Those Who breached the Sabbath were turned into Monkeys, but Those Who prohibited Their Actions were saved

Allah said that the people of this village were divided into three groups, a group that committed the prohibition, catching fish on the Sabbath, as we described in the Tafsir of Surat Al-Baqarah. Another group prohibited them from transgression and avoided them. A third group neither prohibited them, nor participated in their action. The third group said to the preachers,

[لِمَ تَعِظُونَ قَوْمًا اللَّهُ مُهْلِكُهُمْ أَوْ مُعَذِّبُهُمْ عَذَاباً شَدِيدًا]

("Why do you preach to a people whom Allah is about to destroy or to punish with a severe torment''). They said, `why do you forbid these people from evil, when you know that they are destroyed and have earned Allah's punishment' Therefore, they said, there is no benefit in forbidding them. The preachers replied,

[مَعْذِرَةً إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ]

("In order to be free from guilt before your Lord (Allah),'') `for we were commanded to enjoin righteousness and forbid evil,' r

[وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَّقُونَ]

("and perhaps they may fear Allah'') for on account of our advice, they might stop this evil and repent to Allah. Certainly, if they repent to Allah, Allah will accept their repentance and grant them His mercy.' Allah said,

[فَلَمَّا نَسُواْ مَا ذُكِّرُواْ بِهِ]

(So when they forgot the reminder that had been given to them, ) when the evil doers refused the advice,

[أَنجَيْنَا الَّذِينَ يَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ السُّوءِ وَأَخَذْنَا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ]

(We rescued those who forbade evil, but We seized who did wrong,) who committed the transgression,

[بِعَذَابٍ بَئِيسٍ]

(with a severe torment). Allah stated that those who enjoined good were saved, while those who committed the transgression were destroyed, but He did not mention the end of those who were passive (the third group), for the compensation is comparable to the deed. This type did not do what would warrant praise, nor commit wrong so that they are admonished. `Ikrimah said, "Ibn `Abbas said about the Ayah: `I do not know whether or not the people were saved who said;

[لِمَ تَعِظُونَ قَوْمًا اللَّهُ مُهْلِكُهُمْ]

("Why do you preach to a people whom Allah is about to destroy...'') So I continued discussing it with him until I convinced him that they were. Then he gave me [the gift of] a garment.'' Allah said,

[وَأَخَذْنَا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ بِعَذَابٍ بَئِيسٍ]

(and We seized those who did wrong with a Ba'is torment) indicating that those who remained were saved. As for `Ba'is', it means `severe', according to Mujahid, or `painful', according to Qatadah. These meanings are synonymous, and Allah knows best. Allah said next,

[خَـسِئِينَ]

(despised), humiliated, disgraced and rejected.

[وَإِذْ تَأَذَّنَ رَبُّكَ لَيَبْعَثَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَـمَةِ مَن يَسُومُهُمْ سُوءَ الْعَذَابِ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَسَرِيعُ الْعِقَابِ وَإِنَّهُ لَغَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ ]

This explains that it was not ALL Jews who were turned into monkeys. It is refering to a specific punishment of God upon disobedient Jews of that time. It would definetly be distortion of the verse to say that the Qur'an says that all non-Muslims, or that all Jews are monkeys.

And for 5:59-60, the verse says

005.060
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
PICKTHAL: Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.
SHAKIR: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.

This again is refering to a specific punishment for a specific people. Just as you believe God punished the people at Noah's time with the flood, we believe God punished some very disobedient Jews for their sins. Tafsir ibn Kathir says:

he People of the Scriptures Deserve the Worst Torment on the Day of Resurrection

Allah said next,

[قُلْ هَلْ أُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِشَرٍّ مِّن ذلِكَ مَثُوبَةً عِندَ اللَّهِ]

(Say: "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah") The Ayah commands the Prophet to say: Shall I inform you about a worse people with Allah on the Day of Resurrection than what you think of us They are you, with these characteristics,

[مَن لَّعَنَهُ اللَّهُ]

(those who incurred the curse of Allah) were expelled from His mercy,

[وَغَضِبَ عَلَيْهِ]

(and who incurred His wrath) and anger, after which He will never be pleased with them,

[وَجَعَلَ مِنْهُمُ الْقِرَدَةَ وَالْخَنَازِيرَ]

(those of whom He transformed into monkeys and swine,) as we mentioned in Surat Al-Baqarah (2) and as we will mention in Surat Al-A`raf (7). Sufyan Ath-Thawri narrated that Ibn Mas`ud said, "Allah's Messenger was asked if the current monkeys and swine were those whom Allah transformed. He said,

«إنَّ اللهَ لَمْ يُهْلِكْ قَوْمًا، أَوْ لَمْ يَمْسَخْ قَوْمًا فَيَجْعَلَ لَهُمْ نَسْلًا وَلَا عَقِبًا، وَإِنَّ الْقِرَدَةَ وَالْخَنَازِيرَ كَانَتْ قَبْلَ ذلِك»

(Allah never destroyed a people by transforming them and making offspring or descendants for them. The monkeys and swine existed before that.)'' This was also recorded by Muslim. Allah said,

[وَعَبَدَ الطَّـغُوتَ]

(Those who worshipped Taghut...) and served them, becoming their servants. The meaning of this Ayah is: you, O People of the Scriptures, who mock our religion, which consists of Allah's Tawhid, and singling Him out in worship without others, how can you mock us while these are your characteristics This is why Allah said,

[أُوْلَـئِكَ شَرٌّ مَّكَاناً]

(such are worse in rank...) than what you -- People of the Scriptures -- think of us Muslims,

[وَأَضَلُّ عَن سَوَآءِ السَّبِيلِ]

(and far more astray from the straight path.) `More' in the Ayah does not mean that the other party is `less' astray, but it means that the People of the Scriptures are far astray. In another Ayah, Allah said,

[أَصْحَـبُ الْجَنَّةِ يَوْمَئِذٍ خَيْرٌ مُّسْتَقَرّاً وَأَحْسَنُ مَقِيلاً ]

(The dwellers of Paradise will, on that Day, have the best abode, and have the fairest of places for repose.)

And as for the hadith which you are speaking of:
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Last Hour will not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims will kill them until the Jews will hide themselves behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the Gharqad tree will not say this, for it is the tree of the Jews.

We believe that this is true. We do not HATE Jews and we are not anti-Semites. This hadith is a prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) dealing with the end of times. We believe that a huge war will break out between the Muslims and the Jews in the very last of days after Prophet Jesus (AS) and the Anti-Christ will have already appeared. We believe that it is the will of God for this to happen and that it will happen because our Prophet (SAWS) told us so.

As for those sermons you linked to, I am very glad you linked to them so I can point out what Wahhabism is (by the way go read "The Two Faces of Islam" by Stephen Schwartz, I think me might be a Jew but I am not sure, it's about global Wahhabism).

Ok with the sermons:

"The Muslim remembers, how the Jews corrupted the land...
Oh Muslims! The Jews are Jews. Their character and custom are the corruption and destruction of this land. We keep warning you: the Jews are a cancer that spreads inside the body of the Islamic and Arab nation.... They invest in the East Asian countries, which were destroyed [by the Tsunami] because of the Jewish and American corruption and destruction."

First of all, Traditional Sunni Islam does not recognize the Jews as corruptful, decieving people with bad character. Actually, in Traditional Sunni Islam the rule is "one must think well of everyone, believer or disbeliever, and if they see them doing something wrong must make up excuses in their mind to avoid having sinful suspicion about them." Second of all the statement on the Tsunami really dumbfounds me because he assumes somehow that he knows God's wisdom behind his will. God knows best why he sent the Tsunami but I don't think the Qur'an says it's because of "Jews and Americans in East Asia." Horrifying, disgusting, hateful, and sickening Wahhabi propaganda.

Next sermon quote,
Sheik Ibrahim Madiras Friday sermon, PA TV Sept. 10, 2004:
"The Prophet said: the Resurrection will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews, rejoice [in it], rejoice in Allahs Victory. The Muslims will kill the Jews, and he will hide
The Prophet said: the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!. Why is there this malice? Because there are none who love the Jews on the face of the earth: not man, not rock, and not tree everything hates them. They destroy everything they destroy the trees and destroy the houses. Everything wants vengeance on the Jews, on these pigs on the face of the earth, and the day of our victory, Allah willing, will come."

This is extremely anti-Semetic and hateful Wahhabi insanity. I apologize to you on behalf of Muslims for this ridiculous sermon. This is TOTALLY not the Traditional Sunni belief!!!! I will give a reward to anyone who finds any Traditional Islamic text or exegisis of Qur'an or whatever that says "Everything in the entire world hates Jews." Again the meaning of the hadith is a prophecy of future events. The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said that nobody truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself. We are urged to love all of creation what we love for ourselves, and to seek the good in them in their lives. Wahhabism's doctrine is to HATE anyone who is a non-Wahhabi Muslim basically. Go ask them, they are not ashamed to tell you. They hate us Traditional Sunni Muslims as well and some have even called us "pagans" for following a school of legal jurispudence.

"Tens of times in recent years they have taught the Hadith (Islamic tradition attributed to Mohammed) demanding Muslims kill Jews, is a current obligation, in order to bring “the Hour” - the Resurrection. Two examples:
[Dr Hassan Khader, founder Al Quds Encyclopedia, PA TV July 13, 2003] and Dr. Ibrahim Maadi, PA TV Apr. 12, 2002]"

This is a total misunderstanding of the hadith. The hadith does not mean that Muslims have to start killing Jews right now to speed up the Day of Judgement. Actually, thats totally in contradiction to Islamic doctrine which teaches that only Allah (SWT) alone knows the Hour and it's already established, nothing can speed it up or slow it down.

" Jews must be killed and butchered. Everywhere you meet Jews, kill them. It is forbidden to have mercy on a Jew. - All this and more expressed by a senior PA religious leader.
Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Sharia (Islamic Law) Rulings Council, Rector of Advanced Studies, Islamic Univ.
[PA TV, Oct. 13, 2000]."

This is another EXTREMIST Wahhabi saying. It's forbidden to have mercy upon a Jew? This is a joke. A disgusting stupid thing to say. There is a hadith that says Allah (SWT) will be merciful to you if you are merciful to others. Muslims are commanded to love for everyone what they love for themselves. EVEN WHEN AT WAR WITH AN ENEMY, you still have to pray for them and not praying for them in a jealousy as said by Imam Nawawi.

In conclusion,
Palestinian television is an extremist tool of extremist propaganda. Many of it's speakers are either Wahhabis or Wahhabi influenced ingnorants (at least it appears like it)!

If you are still not convinced, and would like more direct statements of Traditional Sunni scholars disproving the following notions then notify me:
a) Forbidden to respect Jews
b) Obligation to kill Jews
c) Belief that Jews are bad corrupt people

May God give you all that is good, and keep you away from all that is bad.

Omar HH
18-02-2005, 02:50 AM
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Christianity_Loving.html

On Judaism and love/hate, for Mu'awiyah.

Is this a good resource?

SunniMuslimah
18-02-2005, 09:33 AM
I made a site about Islamic Tolerance, u may like to visit:

http://itolerance.4t.com/

Pro-History
18-02-2005, 05:21 PM
Dear Ohossino,
Thank you for your post.

As for the Qur'an saying Jews are "apes, pigs and monkeys" this is definetly taken totally out context and extremely unfair to the Qur'an.
I suspect you are correct in this (which is my point), though it is true some will choose to interpret such verses for hateful and violent purposes (per links I posted).

Nowhere in Hebrew Scripture (Torah/Tanakh) are Gentiles referred to as animals. The teaching in Torah is that all human beings are siblings, all descended from the same to primal parents, Adam and Chava (Eve), who were created by Hashem (G-d/Allah).
Hebrew Scripture also teaches equality in law, and the Jew is not to be unjustly favored over the non-Jew, the rich should not be favored over the poor, etc.
"One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you." --Shemot (Ex.) 12:49

What M is ignorantly refering to is writing, taken out of context as you similarly identify with the Quranic verses I posted, in the commentary on Torah called the Talmud and often posted on anti-Jewish hate sites.
For more on Anti-Jewish, anti-Talmud hate practices and responses:
http://www.therefinersfire.org/truth_about_talmud.htm
Though I am loathe to share this based on the tone of M and some other posters here who may with evil intent seek to continue to demonize Jews by spreading the misinformation and lies that these sites seek to correct.

Respectfully,
History

P.S. I shall be away until after February 27th.

Pro-History
18-02-2005, 05:24 PM
Dear Ohossino,
Thank you for your post.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...ity_Loving.html

On Judaism and love/hate, for Mu'awiyah.

Is this a good resource?

Yes.

Dear SunniMuslimah,
Thank you for the invitation.

Respectfully,
History

Omar HH
18-02-2005, 05:27 PM
What M is ignorantly refering to is writing, taken out of context as you similarly identify with the Quranic verses I posted, in the commentary on Torah called the Talmud and often posted on anti-Jewish hate sites.
For more on Anti-Jewish, anti-Talmud hate practices and responses:
http://www.therefinersfire.org/truth_about_talmud.htm
Though I am loathe to share this based on the tone of M and some other posters here who may with evil intent seek to continue to demonize Jews by spreading the misinformation and lies that these sites seek to correct.


Yes, I have seen these quotes from the Talmud too. I have seen them on some extremist anti-Jewish websites. It appears that many Arab nationalists, Pan-Arabists, and anti-Semites quote these like none other. The unfortunate thing is that people are not critical readers and accept things at face value. The onus of proof is on the accusor as the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) stated. So we would grateful for the dispelling of these notions in a traditional Jewish perspective.

I have also heard the misconception that Talmuds are secretly hidden away from non-Jews so that they will not let them know what they contain. Is this in any way true?

Thank you,
May God give you all that is good, and prevent you from all harm.

Omar HH
18-02-2005, 05:44 PM
It is important to remember to read the many Talmud volumes in CONTEXT - taking into consideration that these things were said fifteen hundred years ago and were seen through the eyes of certain rabbis of the time who were discussing their thoughts about God, life and living.

Yes, thank you for that website it clears alot up and I hope all Muslims on this board will check it out.

The same thing applies to the Muslim scriptures, they must be taken in context. The error of the Wahhabis and Modernists is that they take scriptures out of context. The Wahhabis apply verses dealing with one thing to another thing, such as verses about disbelievers to apply to believers. The Modernists slip and slide through translations to make Islam into THEIR vision and to comply with modern society as much as possible.

True Traditional Sunni Islam takes the verses into context. The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said that it was forbidden to interpret the Qur'an according to personal opinion. Nowadays people aren't even interpreting the Qur'an, but the ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE QUR'AN! The Tafsir (exegisis) of the Qur'an by such commentators as Ibn Kathir, Tabari, Ibn Abbas, al-Qurtubi, and others form the true Sunni tradition.

Unfortunately now these valuable gems are being replaced by the footnotes in the English translation of the Qur'an, the Salafist-influenced exegises by Mawdudi and Sayyd Qutb, and others.

For a traditionalist Sunni commentary in English there is (for purchase):
http://www.al-rashad.com/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=154&osCsid=d11f4223fbe15a58edf6a0438677fe91
http://www.al-rashad.com/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=424&osCsid=d11f4223fbe15a58edf6a0438677fe91
http://www.al-rashad.com/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=148&osCsid=d11f4223fbe15a58edf6a0438677fe91

And online:
http://videosrv.sunnah.org/naqshb/msh-tafsir.htm
http://www.madrasaprogram.org/tafsir.htm
http://www.tafsir.com (Warning: Do not click on any links to other non-Tafsir parts of the page. This is a tafsir agreed upon by both Wahhabis and Sunnis alike as valid.)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/tafsir.html

Pro-History
18-02-2005, 08:00 PM
Dear Ohosinno,
Thank you for your post.

I have also heard the misconception that Talmuds are secretly hidden away from non-Jews so that they will not let them know what they contain. Is this in any way true?
No. Of course not.
You can even buy volumes on amazon.com. >smile<
But Talmud is not meant to be "read" but "studied" (Talmud = "Study"), usually in a group and under a Talmudic scholar.
It is easy for the unintiated and unlearned to become confused and go astray in Talmud, which is why a Talmud teacher is essential, per Jewish teaching.
There are many many volumes in the Talmud (of which my favorite is the Pirke Avot, Sayngs of the Fathers), and those who study one page per day (Daf Yomi) require 7 years to complete the entire Talmud!
But if you care to glean some of the key points of Talmud in far less time (>smile<), I'd recommend:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805210326/qid=1108760085/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-3751590-6481464?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

To see an overview of a page of Talmud:
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/TalmudPage.html

Talmud even discussed on "The Simpsons" >smile<
http://www.dovberger.com/noah/simpsons.html

Thus, Ohosinno, I do not think we can say the Talmud is "hidden away."

Respectfully,
History

P.S. Good Shabbos. Have a blessed week. I'll be back after the 27th.

Pro-History
01-03-2005, 02:27 PM
P.S. Ohossino, I admit I do not find the following comforting and even contradictory:

We believe that this is true. We do not HATE Jews and we are not anti-Semites. This hadith is a prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) dealing with the end of times. We believe that a huge war will break out between the Muslims and the Jews in the very last of days after Prophet Jesus (AS) and the Anti-Christ will have already appeared. We believe that it is the will of God for this to happen and that it will happen because our Prophet (SAWS) told us so.
...
This is a total misunderstanding of the hadith. The hadith does not mean that Muslims have to start killing Jews right now to speed up the Day of Judgement. Actually, thats totally in contradiction to Islamic doctrine which teaches that only Allah (SWT) alone knows the Hour and it's already established, nothing can speed it up or slow it down.
The inference is that you share the belief, as a Muslim, that someday it will be appropriate "to start killing Jews."
That belief provides the fodder for much of the antisemitism you object to--and makes it difficult to accept your position as just: i.e. it is wrong to kill Jews today, but tomorrow it will be not only o.k. but required. >sigh<
Makes it difficult to establish trust, you see.

As an aside, there are also apocalyptic writings in Hebrew Scripture, and "the Nations" do not fare well and a few (Egypt, Babylon, Assyria,...) are mentioned by name--though not any particular people or any particular religious adherents. The New Testament (and Christianity) puts much stock in Armageddon where the Jews are completely eradicated. I suspect Moslem apocalyptic writings were strongly influenced by these Jewish and Christian prophecies--though I find it disquieting that Muslim writings adopt the position of "the Nations" and the anti-Jew antagonism of the New Testament.
In Judaism, end-times prophecies are given little authority (similar to afterlife speculations), for neither can be proved or rationalized. What is given authority and acknowledged as G-d's Word are what is true and evident, G-d's ethical teachings for human behavior.
Thus, in Judaism, we do not have the paradox of given equal authority to Teachings of love for one's fellow and equality and justice and compassion and mercy to all with prophecies that promote (intentionally or unintentionally) hatred and violence against "the other."
One reason I find Judaism the correct faith for me.
Your opinions may very. >smile<

Respectfully,
History

ilm_seeker
01-03-2005, 03:11 PM
P.S. Ohossino, I admit I do not find the following comforting and even contradictory:

The inference is that you share the belief, as a Muslim, that someday it will be appropriate "to start killing Jews."
That belief provides the fodder for much of the antisemitism you object to--and makes it difficult to accept your position as just: i.e. it is wrong to kill Jews today, but tomorrow it will be not only o.k. but required. >sigh<
Makes it difficult to establish trust, you see.

As an aside, there are also apocalyptic writings in Hebrew Scripture, and "the Nations" do not fare well and a few (Egypt, Babylon, Assyria,...) are mentioned by name--though not any particular people or any particular religious adherents. The New Testament (and Christianity) puts much stock in Armageddon where the Jews are completely eradicated. I suspect Moslem apocalyptic writings were strongly influenced by these Jewish and Christian prophecies--though I find it disquieting that Muslim writings adopt the position of "the Nations" and the anti-Jew antagonism of the New Testament.
In Judaism, end-times prophecies are given little authority (similar to afterlife speculations), for neither can be proved or rationalized. What is given authority and acknowledged as G-d's Word are what is true and evident, G-d's ethical teachings for human behavior.
Thus, in Judaism, we do not have the paradox of given equal authority to Teachings of love for one's fellow and equality and justice and compassion and mercy to all with prophecies that promote (intentionally or unintentionally) hatred and violence against "the other."
One reason I find Judaism the correct faith for me.
Your opinions may very. >smile<

Respectfully,
History
Hello there,

I was just wandering what "sect" of Judaism you belong to? I believe there are Orthadox and Reformist Jews with perhaps various shades in between them.

Pro-History
01-03-2005, 04:26 PM
Dear ilm seeker,
Thank you for your post.

The major Jewish denominations (at least those the Jewish majority recognize) are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist.
And there a number of smaller "sects".

Compared to Christianity, and possibly Islam, imho, there is little major difference between the major Jewish denominations, because Judaism does not have a catechism or set doctrine. There are shared core beliefs (G-d, Torah/Law, peoplehood), shared cultural heritage, and shared purpose under G-d.

Thus, asking a Jew what "sect" he/she belongs to has relatively less importance.

For example, in my case, I follow many Orthodox traditions (my wife is Orthodox and she has relatives who are even Chasids), but my childhood affiliation was Conservative with a Reconstructionist Rabbi, and I attend Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform services depending on what is available and who I am visiting and am welcomed and feel at home in all.

At its essence, Judaism is nondenominational, imho.

Respectfully,
History

Omar HH
02-03-2005, 02:34 AM
i.e. it is wrong to kill Jews today, but tomorrow it will be not only o.k. but required. >sigh<
Makes it difficult to establish trust, you see.


No, it is not "wrong to kill Jews today, but required tomorrow".

Human life is inviolable except in just cause. It is a just cause to kill in times of warfare (as long as this amount does not exceed the amount killed on your side). In Islam we are told that a war will break out between the Muslims and Jews (which we have many indications of happening), and during this time the Muslims will fight the Jews and will be aided by God for victory. Any killing in the process (which is better to be minimized) is a consequence of war.

God allows us to defend ourselves in times of war.

May God grant you all that is good and prevent you from all harm.

Pro-History
02-03-2005, 03:07 PM
Dear Ohossino,
Thank you for your post.

Human life is inviolable except in just cause.
What "just cause"?
In Judaism, I believe, there is no "just cause" for taking a human life--only regret when it is necessary when no other option suffices to keep one human being from harming another.
Life is sacred--perhaps more in Jewish philosophy than others since we place so little emphasis comparatively on the "afterlife."
So perhaps a discussion of the Muslim versus Jewish philosophy on "What is 'just cause" in taking a human life?" would be a good topic for discussion.


It is a just cause to kill in times of warfare (as long as this amount does not exceed the amount killed on your side).
I disagree.
In Judaism (Talmud) it is stated: He who saves one life is like one who saves the entire world. (Sanhedrin 4:5)
For if Adam had been killed, there would be no humanity.
Killing one person, even in warfare, kills all his/her potential descendents.
And a similar saying is found in Islam.
Life is invaluable.
There is no "just cause" for taking a life, only regret.


In Islam we are told that a war will break out between the Muslims and Jews (which we have many indications of happening), and during this time the Muslims will fight the Jews and will be aided by God for victory.
What are these "indications"?
Do you think the Muslim "end-times" are incipient?


God allows us to defend ourselves in times of war.
G-d tells the Jews the same thing.


May God grant you all that is good and prevent you from all harm.
And you.

Respectfully,
History

Xaxerian
02-03-2005, 05:01 PM
I don't understand how a supporter of the rogue state of Israel can be tolerated within a Muslim forum. This is discriminatory to the suffering people of Palestine, who suffer and are tortured everyday due to the mongrels of the rogue state of Israel. Alas, when has the cause of the Palestinians have ever been a prime hope? Nay, never, in these times of fitnah and calamity.

Saleel
02-03-2005, 05:12 PM
:salam:

I don't understand how a supporter of the rogue state of Israel can be tolerated within a Muslim forum. This is discriminatory to the suffering people of Palestine, who suffer and are tortured everyday due to the mongrels of the rogue state of Israel. Alas, when has the cause of the Palestinians have ever been a prime hope? Nay, never, in these times of fitnah and calamity.
Tahsin, every non-muslim is a potential Muslim. Nabi-Kareem SAW taught us to maintain the best of manners with non-muslims.

As long as Pro-History maintains a nice tone and does not attack Islam, we should be accomodating :insh:.

:salam:

Xaxerian
02-03-2005, 05:21 PM
But, alas, this man History is a supporter of the rogue state of Israel - which is waging war against Muslims and have been torturing and murdering millions of their Palestinians for over 80 years. Recognizing and accomodating a man who supports such a belief is discriminatory to the millions of suffering and dead Palestinians - is it not our duty to keep them in mind whatever we do? Will we position Zionists ahead of our own brothers and sisters?

The Prophet, sallahu walayhi wasallam, dealt firmly with those who created mischief and pillage amidst the Land. And no matter what your philosophy states, Israel and its supporters are an integral part of that category. We should not even speak with such people; astaghfirullah.

The paralyzed face of Shaykh Ahmad Yassin comes to mind when I think of the atrocities committed by the rogue state of Israel, and I cry, I cry, and I cry, brothers and sisters, - while the stormclouds overhead monotonously agree with me. This barbarian History actually denounced and condemned the half-blind Shaykh Yassin vehemently - even upon the news of his tragic death - this is why I hate mongrels such as him and the rogue beliefs of Zionism.

May Allah, Glorified and Exalted be He, reward and bless the noble soul of Shaykh Yassin, and destroy all those who support, recognize and live by the rogue state of Israel. Ameen.

Pro-History
02-03-2005, 07:18 PM
I do not know if this is an appropriate thread to discuss politics, especially politics we may disagree on.
Nor do I believe it fruitful to (yet again) respond to Xaxerian/Tahsin's exagerations and rhetoric.
He is young, impetuous, and passionate for which I can forgive his rash black versus white world-view. I saw the world likewise long, very long ago--until I matured and learned (1) there are many perspectives which may differ but have their respective validity, and (2) I was not always right. >smile<
While it is always easy to find what divides us as people, I believe it is our purpose (and responsibility) under G-d/Allah to see what we share and what unites us.
But if the members of suniforum.com prefer I do not post here, I will move on.

Respectfully,
History

P.S. Dear Saleel. Thank you for your post:

every non-muslim is a potential Muslim.
As a Jew, I understand that in the final matter it does not matter whether one is Jew, Muslim, Christian or etc., for G-d knows us as true believers by how we act not by our professed religion/faith.
I see everyone as an equally beloved "child" of G-d, Blessed be His Name; and we all possess the potential to live righteously under Him.

Goldi
02-03-2005, 07:20 PM
Don't be silly. post away.

Omar HH
02-03-2005, 09:01 PM
I do not know if this is an appropriate thread to discuss politics, especially politics we may disagree on.
Nor do I believe it fruitful to (yet again) respond to Xaxerian/Tahsin's exagerations and rhetoric.
He is young, impetuous, and passionate for which I can forgive his rash black versus white world-view. I saw the world likewise long, very long ago--until I matured and learned (1) there are many perspectives which may differ but have their respective validity, and (2) I was not always right. >smile<
While it is always easy to find what divides us as people, I believe it is our purpose (and responsibility) under G-d/Allah to see what we share and what unites us.
But if the members of suniforum.com prefer I do not post here, I will move on.

Respectfully,
History

P.S. Dear Saleel. Thank you for your post:

As a Jew, I understand that in the final matter it does not matter whether one is Jew, Muslim, Christian or etc., for G-d knows us as true believers by how we act not by our professed religion/faith.
I see everyone as an equally beloved "child" of G-d, Blessed be His Name; and we all possess the potential to live righteously under Him.

Yes you are being extremely respectful.

Also I would not like you to believe that we Muslims on this board are TRYING to convert you. Muslims do not TRY to convert anyone, and we have no missionary movement. The word in Islam for spreading the faith is "Da'wah" which means "invitation" and not "converting people." We believe that we are only responsible for conveying our message and it is up to the listener to decide.

As for the state of Israel, let's leave politics out of this, final word.

Pro-History
02-03-2005, 09:20 PM
Goldi and Ohossino,
Thank you for your posts.

As for the state of Israel, let's leave politics out of this, final word.
Very well.


We believe that we are only responsible for conveying our message and it is up to the listener to decide.
But how does Islam (and Muslims) view/judge one who listens to the Islamic "message" but finds Judaism or Christianity (etc) a better message for him or her?
In Judaism, I can continue to recognize the Muslim and Christian as equal to any Jew in their chosen Path to G-d, who is near to us all:

THe Lord is near to all who call upon Him; to all who call upon Him in truth--Tehillim (Psalms) 145:18.
Again (and I apologize for being repetitive), it is how you live your life righteously that ultimately matters.

Respectfully,
History

Omar HH
03-03-2005, 01:11 AM
But how does Islam (and Muslims) view/judge one who listens to the Islamic "message" but finds Judaism or Christianity (etc) a better message for him or her?
In Judaism, I can continue to recognize the Muslim and Christian as equal to any Jew in their chosen Path to G-d, who is near to us all:
.
Again (and I apologize for being repetitive), it is how you live your life righteously that ultimately matters.

Respectfully,
History

This gets into fairly complex Islamic epistemology. Basically:

Islam views belief as a choice. When one gets the full undistorted view of Islam and CHOSES not to follow it then it is for many reasons (which are set forth in the Qur'an):
a) Blind following of forefathers.
b) Unwillingness to follow Islamic law.
c) Addiction to the life of this world.
d) Arrogance.
e) Unwillingness to accept change.
f) Wanting to follow their desires over the truth.

If one views the message of Islam as "rationally impossible" through reason, and truly does not have either enough knowledge or distorted knowledge to see it as a "rational possibility" to be true, then one recieves divine amnesty in the hereafter (if he is a conceptual monotheist... i.e. when asked "Who created the heavens and the earth" he says "Allah (or God)" )according to one view.

But if one views the religion of Islam as "rationally possible" not probable but possible, yet REJECTS this message, then if one dies on this belief he will be in the fire.

The message of Islam is not one of religion. Islam means submission. Those who refuse to submit to their Lord are punished. The submission is a continuation of the previous messages. In reality in the Islamic world view, we don't consider "religion" per-say. There is only one Way and that is the Way of Submission (Din al-Islam). God sent divine revelation to humanity and also gave them human reason. All souls testified before birth in submission. Also human reason alone can prove the existence of a creator, but without the assistance of divine revelation will never come up with what God wants it to submit to (in the view of the Asharis - one of the 3 schools of Muslim theology). So when the divine message to submit comes to one, one has already testified to it pre-birth and one's reason already sees it as rationally possible (if he recieves the sufficient and undistorted message). This drives some people to accept the message of submission. This happened with the Torah, Injeel, Pslams and all previous truly divine texts. Then God sent his FINAL messenger (pbuh) to ALL of humanity, Muhammad (SAWS). Those people who did not hear his message are not accountable for not accepting it ("We do not punish until we send a messenger") if they had time to think and had intelligence they would be responsible to be conceptual monotheists (they would answer "God" to who created the heavens and earth) according to one Ashari view, and they would not even be responsible for knowing God's existence according to another.

Now, some people who recieve the message and realize it's rational possibility but REJECT it... they are REJECTING the Way of Submission. And those who reject the Way of Submission to God will have to meet God in that state on the Day of Judgement.

We also believe that whoever goes to God and SINCERELY to the bottom of his heart asks him for the truth and guidance (even if it is not what he is following) God does not leave his request unanswered. This is not to say that God is REQUIRED to fufill it (God is not required to do anything).

May God grant you all that is good and prevent you from all harm.

If I made a mistake, insha Allah brother Saleel or Salman can correct me.

Look at the thread "Traditional Islamic Epistemology" under In-Depth Islam for more information.