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pink_ninja
25-07-2008, 07:13 PM
assalamualaykum
what would you do when you see someone constantly doing a bad thing and when you tell them that you are doing wrong they get offended. how do you deal with these kind of people.
after offending them would you tlk 2 them or just stay out of the way.
should you feel guilty for offending them?
no i dont think we should feel guilty we r only doin amr bil marof.

Yahya
25-07-2008, 07:32 PM
Well, first, I would remind you that you are only entitled to order people with what's right or forbid them from what's wrong in two cases:
1- it is a matter of consensus.
2- you KNOW that he is following a particular school, and you KNOW that the act is forbidden according to that school.

Nowadays, it is common for people to mix and match between schools. So option 2 is less reliable than it once was. And in order to follow option 1, it would require an awful lot of knowledge on your part to know that NO mujtahids have EVER permitted such a thing.


So basically, if it's not case 1 or case 2 above, you have no right to tell him anything. But if you do have the right to tell him, and he doesn't accept, then I would recommend just staying out of the way, for fear that you may close his ears to you indefinitely.

But another option is to find someone else that he WOULD accept advise from, and ask that person to counsel him.

Isa al-Maliki
25-07-2008, 07:47 PM
Bismillah
As-salaamu 'alaikum,

Brother Yahya already explained the situation. I would just like to add one thing, Imam ash-Shafi'i (radiAllahu ta'aala anhu) once said that the one who corrects his brother in private have given him sincere advice and honoured him. While if he does it in public he has disgraced him and shamed him.

When you correct a brother or a sister, do so in a polite way. Because our egos find it harder to accept something if it's given to you in a harsh way.

Allahu Alam

Wa's-salaam

pink_ninja
25-07-2008, 07:50 PM
salams
it is not a mazhab thing. its about manners. someone constantly displaying bad manners. and when you tell them that this not from adab or akhlaq they dont like it.
if you tell them politely or harshly either way they get offended.

alfatiha
25-07-2008, 07:55 PM
salams
it is not a mazhab thing. its about manners. someone constantly displaying bad manners. and when you tell them that this not from adab or akhlaq they dont like it.
if you tell them politely or harshly either way they get offended.

:salam: in that case, the best possible way, in my humble opinion, is to act in very good manner in front of her, offer her help, smile a lot in front of her, talk nicely about her behind her back, and make dua so that she will change sometimes soon. Sometimes she acts that way not because she wants too, but nobody around her has ever displayed a good adab in front of her. Maybe all she needs is just a very good example of how good adab should be displayed.

Isa al-Maliki
25-07-2008, 07:57 PM
Either way, it's still the rules relating to forbidding the evil. Rules which you should respect and not transgress.

not known
25-07-2008, 07:58 PM
dont have time rightnow to explain, hope this may be useful


Effect of Forbidding from the evil

we Muslims today are following our nafs rather than islam, our iman is low and we aren’t able to follow the commands of Allah as we are ought to follow. In this situation is it right to forbid from evil or should we rather behave with wisdom to bring the point home that is following islam as we should.

It is true we should do nahi-anil-munkir but to whom, its for the person who has eman over Allah and easily accepts it. For example if there is a kafir, if we say drinking wine is haram, then do we think he will leave drinking wine, no. because he don’t have eman on Allah and so he will not be following it. Today muslims have eman but that which cant even make them to stand for prayer with which there’s no position in islam. Now if we start forbidding them from evil, can we think they will leave it, no. Because how can a person who cant follow important commandment of namaz leave other small things.

If we see the seerah of our prophet mohammed(s.a.s) we can see first prophet (s.a.s) raised sahaba on emaan, we can hardly find any command of forbidding things in the life of mecca except shirk which was main part of emaan. When once sahaba were upto the mark then Allah revealed verses which forbid things like wine, interest etc…


Even today there is lot of need to follow the same principle which prophet (s.a.s) has followed. Muslims today lack emaan and this is shown in their amaal(deeds). So we just cant forbid them from evil but rather call them towards good and talk in such a way that we make their emaan strong

I just wanted to show an example which took place very recently just a couple of days back.

A young boy went in jamath for 40 days, mashallah he left beard and was sitting in ta’lim reading all sunnahs and was trying to follow islam. May Allah forgive him because of some reason he trimmed his beard. One so called tablighi who always thinks nahi-anil-munkir is also our duty and its part of emaan (I am not denying it but should be used with wisdom) and he used to always tell people if you don’t read namaz then nothing will be accepted, if you don’t keep beard no one will think you’re a muslim etcc. Saw him that he has trimmed his beard. He said to that young boy ‘ arey, who are u ?, I cant recognize u. what happened to your beard. If u once start following a Sunnah and then leave it, Allah will get so much angry and your going in the path of Allah will be of no use’

His friend was sitting beside me, he said if u talk like that then no one will listen to you. This old man’s age is over, why don’t u retire him. On that I said, dear brother tabligh is not any organization to add or remove people its work of all muslims, but its true we should work with wisdom and that man shouldn’t have talked like that.

But the effect came out to be more worst than expected. The young man just turned off from there and went out of masjid. He has good relations with me and he has stopped even talking with me. Not even doing salam. And he is not sitting in ta’lim and just going off with same old friends and I fear may Allah forgive he may go back to his past life style. As we have seen many leaving even what they follow on forbidding some thing.

We know its not good for us to trim beard, but how can a man who always shaved it know its importance. It can be known only through emaan and its in the hand of Allah, we just cant force anyone to follow something, because its only the quality of Allah. What we can do is call people to raise their eman, after that if we present to them the forbidded things, they will surely accept it inshallah. Just our showing of quran and hadith will not work, because you need eman to follow it.

One may argue that we should do it for Allah, what happens if some one don’t want to follow. But aren’t we making him to go away from islam rather than bringing near, is it good for us

I remember a advise given by hazrathji to a jamath, he said to amir of jamath ‘ Don’t go and claim that your prophet, nor do claim that you are Allah’. The amir of jamath got astonished and said, if you doubt me then why are you sending me as amir. Then hazrathji said ‘ I mean don’t go and think that people should listen to what you say, because people will listen to only what prophets say. And don’t think that people should follow what you order, because only Allah can make them follow’

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29237&page=5

Yahya
25-07-2008, 08:34 PM
salams
it is not a mazhab thing. its about manners. someone constantly displaying bad manners. and when you tell them that this not from adab or akhlaq they dont like it.
if you tell them politely or harshly either way they get offended.

If they are not doing anything Haram, or failing to do something fard/wajib, then you have no right to "order what's right or forbid what's wrong." Merely doing something makrooh is not enough. He has a right to do makrooh things.

bugmenot
25-07-2008, 08:38 PM
He has a right to do makrooh things.
:salam:
Even if it's makrooh taHriman? Now that is a grave post of yours.

Isa al-Maliki
25-07-2008, 08:45 PM
Well, that is a Hanafi thing. And not everyone is a Hanafi.
Second, there might be ikhtilaaf as to if that is makrooh tahriman in the Hanafi madhab or not.

Husain
25-07-2008, 09:08 PM
assalamualaykum
what would you do when you see someone constantly doing a bad thing and when you tell them that you are doing wrong they get offended. how do you deal with these kind of people.
after offending them would you tlk 2 them or just stay out of the way.
should you feel guilty for offending them?
no i dont think we should feel guilty we r only doin amr bil marof.

:ws:

Sister, please don't pay attention to the doubts been created by some of those in this thread, that you have no right to advise this person.

While you called it Amr bil Ma'ruf, it isn't ordering the right, as "ordering" takes place when you are dealing with someone subservient to you.
That is when these conditions apply, ie. his doing someone that is incorrect in his madhab, without valid difference etc.

All you are doing is advising someone against doing a certain action. You have every right to advise him, even if he holds the act to be correct and permissible.
Yes, you should take the utmost care to advise him in a beautiful manner, that would be conducive to his accepting your advice.
Making dua before and after offering your advice, adds great power to it.

And Allah Ta'ala knows best

Springarden
27-07-2008, 02:24 AM
:salam:

MashaAllah maulana saheb your advices always put me at rest. For now can u futher advise on how to deal or what is the best way to deal with rebellious youngsters? Like one who knows right and wrong, used to do everything right but now doing everything wrong, advising properly nicely or not doesnt seem to hit it, because anger is just something that would topple him over everything else. one that is unapproachable.


:jazak: