Salafis finally admits Tarawih is 20 rakaats

[nuaym]

What was the number of rak’ahs in Taraweeh prayer at the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allaah be pleased with him)?

What is narrated from ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) is that he ordered that Taraweeh prayer should be twenty rak’ahs. Is that saheeh or da’eef? Or is there no basis for it?.


Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The report that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab ordered that Taraweeh prayer should be twenty rak’ahs came from four of the Taabi’een. These are their reports:

1 – It was narrated that Saa’ib ibn Yazeed said: ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) gathered the people together in Ramadaan to be led by Ubayy ibn Ka’b and Tameem al-Daari in praying twenty-one rak’ahs, and they used to recite hundreds of verses, and they dispersed before dawn broke.

A number of narrators narrated it from al-Saa’ib, some of whom mentioned twenty rak’ahs or twenty-one or twenty-three. They were:

Muhammad ibn Yoosuf, the son of the sister of al-Saa’ib, from al-Saa’ib, as was narrated by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in al-Musannaf (4/260) from the report of Dawood ibn Qays and others.

Yazeed ibn Khusayfah. This was narrated by Ibn al-Majd in al-Musnad (1/413), and via him by al-Bayhaqi in al-Sunan (2/496).

Al-Haarith ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi Dhubaab. This was narrated by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in al-Musannaf (4/261).

These reports are saheeh reports narrated by trustworthy narrators from al-Saa’ib ibn Yazeed. They mention twenty rak’ahs at the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). The extra amount mentioned – twenty-one or twenty-three, refers to Taraweeh plus Witr.

2 – It was narrated that Yazeed ibn Rumaan said: At the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab the people used to pray twenty-three rak’ahs of qiyaam in Ramadaan.

This was narrated from him by Maalik in al-Muwatta’ (1/115). Al-Nawawi said in al-Majmoo’ (4/33: It is mursal, because Yazeed ibn Rumaan did not live at the same time as ‘Umar. End quote.

3 – It was narrated from Yahya ibn Sa’eed al-Qattaan that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) ordered a man to lead them in twenty rak’ahs of prayer. This was narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah in al-Musannaaf (2/163) from Wakee’ from Maalik. But Yahya ibn Sa’eed did not live at the same time as ‘Umar.

4 – It was narrated that ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Rafee’ said: Ubayy ibn Ka’b used to lead the people in praying twenty rak’ahs during Ramadaan in Madeenah, and he would pray Witr with three rak’ahs.

This was narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah in al-Musannaf (2/163).

From all these reports it is clear that twenty rak’ahs was the way that Taraweeh was usually done at the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). A matter such as Taraweeh prayer is something that is well known among all people, and is transmitted from one generation to another. The report of Yazeed ibn Rumaan and Yahya al-Qattaan is to be taken into account even if they did not live at the same time as ‘Umar, because undoubtedly they learned it from a number of people who had been alive at the time of ‘Umar, and this is something that does not need and isnaad, rather all the people of Madeenah are its isnaad.

Imam al-Tirmidhi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Sunan (3/169):

Most of the scholars are of the view that what is narrated from ‘Umar, ‘Ali and other companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is twenty rak’ahs. This is the view of al-Thawri, Ibn al-Mubaarak and al-Shaafa’i.

Al-Shaafa’i said: This is what I learned in our land, in Makkah they pray twenty rak’ahs.

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Istidhkaar (2/69):

Twenty rak’ahs was narrated from ‘Ali, Shateer ibn Shakl, Ibn Abi Mulaykah, al-Haarith al-Hamadaani and Abu’l-Bakhtari. It is the view of the majority of scholars and it is the view of the Kufis, the Shaafa’is and most of the fuqaha’. It was narrated in saheeh reports from Ubayy ibn Ka’b, and there was no difference of opinion among the Sahaabah. ‘Ata’ said: I grew up at a time when the people prayed twenty-three rak’ahs including Witr.

See that in Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (2/163).

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (23/112):

It is proven that Ubayy ibn Ka’b used to lead the people in praying twenty rak’ahs in qiyaam in Ramadaan, and he used to pray Witr with three rak’ahs. Many scholars think that this is the Sunnah, because he established that among the Muhaajireen and Ansaar and no one objected to that. Others regarded it as mustahabb to pray thirty-nine rak’ahs, based on the fact that this was the practice of the people of Madeenah in the past. End quote.

With regard to what it says in the report of Imam Maalik, Yahya al-Qattaan and others from Muhammad ibn Yoosuf from al-Saa’ib ibn Yazeed in al-Muwatta’ (1/115) and in Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (2/162) “eleven rak’ahs” – this is to be understood as referring to what was done at first, then it was reduced after that, then ‘Umar increased the number to twenty to make the recitation in qiyaam easier for the people.

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Istidhkaar (2/68):

It may be understood as meaning that at first qiyaam at the time of ‘Umar was eleven rak’ahs, then he reduced the length of qiyaam for them and made it twenty-one rak’ahs, to make the recitation lighter for them and so that they would bow and prostrate more. But it seems most likely to me that the report about eleven rak’ahs is a mistake. And Allaah knows best. End quote.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (23/113):

When Ubayy ibn Ka’b led them in praying qiyaam in a single congregation, he could not make them stand for too long, so he increased the number of rak’ahs to make up for the long standing. So they doubled the number of rak’ahs. He used to pray eleven or thirteen rak’ahs of qiyaam al-layl, then it seems that after that the people of Madeenah found it difficult to stand for so long during the recitation, so they increased the number of rak’ahs until it reached thirty-nine. End quote.

Secondly:

Night prayers are broad in scope, and there is no set number. Whoever wants to pray eleven rak’ahs may do so, and whoever wants to pray more or less than that may do so. The same applies to Taraweeh prayers in Ramadaan.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (23/113):

One group said that it is proven in al-Saheeh from ‘Aa’ishah that the Prophet did not pray more than thirteen rak’ahs in Ramadaan or at any other time, and some people were uncertain about this report, because they thought that it contradicted the saheeh hadeeth and because of the practice of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs and the actions of the Muslims.

But the correct view is that all of that is good, as was stated by Imam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him). There is no set number of rak’ahs for qiyaam during Ramadaan, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not set a number. End quote.

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (11/322):

It is proven that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) told the one whom he appointed among the Sahaabah to pray eleven rak’ahs, and it is proven that they prayed twenty-three rak’ahs based on his command. This indicates that the matter is broad in scope and that the matter was flexible according to the Sahaabah. That is also indicated by the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The night prayers are two by two.” End quote.

See also the answer to question no. 9036 and 38021.

And Allaah knows best.

http://www.*************/en/ref/82152

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the increasing number of sensible Fatwaas coming out of Shaykh Salih Al-Munajjid's site, I wonder if the Ummah should sue the Saudees for wasting 3 decades of Ummah time for stupid Fatwaas which led to in-fighting & bickering...

I mean why couldn't they come up these sorts of Fatwaas in the 70's & 80's?

Or is it because the Americans have turned the screw on the Saudees?

I wonder about the change of heart.

[Talib84]

As i said before, its sad to see the salafis I know have no respect for Sheikh Salih Munajjid and accuse him of all kinds of things

[mospike]

every day we are awakening to the revival of the true Sunnah a movement is happening where Inshallah all in fighting will end Ameen

[bugmenot]

:salam:

I think the fatwa more says 'Yes taraweeh was 20 raka'at in hazrat 'Umar (:anhu:)'s era and this is not a bid'a ' rather than 'it is compulsory that taraweeh is to be prayed 20 raka'at'.
So IMO this fatwa is a reply to those who follow Al albany (:rahim:) position that praying 20 is a bid'a and would never listen to others.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

:salam:

I think the fatwa more says 'Yes taraweeh was 20 raka'at in hazrat 'Umar (:anhu:)'s era and this is not a bid'a ' rather than 'it is compulsory that taraweeh is to be prayed 20 raka'at'.
So IMO this fatwa is a reply to those who follow Al albany (:rahim:) position that praying 20 is a bid'a and would never listen to others.

W-Salam,

Thats a start and an improvement over 20 Rakaat is an innovation (fortunately most Salafees don't ascribe to this view).

[Ali al-Hanafi]

:salam:

I was watching the live Taraweeh broadcast from Masjid al-Haram yesterday on the Islam Channel and one of the Imams who lead the Taraweeh was praying with his hands below the navel! I don't know his name but he was the one in the black shawl. I'll try to find the video.

[Ali al-Hanafi]

:salam:

Ok, I've found one video with the Imam in it but he's not leading the prayer. He's standing behind the Imam, the last person on the right of the screen at around 1 min 8 secs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFRy1KoAVw&feature=related

When I find the video of him leading, you'll be able to see more clearly that he prays with his hands below the navel :insh: or wait until 1 min 48 in the video and you'll see it more clearly.

[Abu_Bilal]

:salam:

Ok, I've found one video with the Imam in it but he's not leading the prayer. He's standing behind the Imam, the last person on the right of the screen at around 1 min 8 secs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFRy1KoAVw&feature=related

When I find the video of him leading, you'll be able to see more clearly that he prays with his hands below the navel :insh: or wait until 1 min 48 in the video and you'll see it more clearly.

Walikum-us-salam.

I couldn't see the video on your link.

However, that shiekh also does "rafa-yadeen", so i guess he is not hanafi. I saw it the other night, when he went into rukuh.

[mosa707]

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the increasing number of sensible Fatwaas coming out of Shaykh Salih Al-Munajjid's site, I wonder if the Ummah should sue the Saudees for wasting 3 decades of Ummah time for stupid Fatwaas which led to in-fighting & bickering...

I mean why couldn't they come up these sorts of Fatwaas in the 70's & 80's?

Or is it because the Americans have turned the screw on the Saudees?

I wonder about the change of heart.

Wa alaikum salam,

The damage has been done. Even non salafi mosques have started praying 8 rakaat

[syed bin muhammed]

salaam

off topic,, if one prays 8 insted of 20 is ones salah accepted,, being one from the 4 schools of fiq

[abuhajira]

:salam:

the sunnah muakkada is to perform 20 rakat. if you perfoem only 8 then your sunnah of taraweeh is not complete, you will be liable for it and moreover void of barakah of it as well.

:ws:

[ENIGMA]

I heard that Nabi :saw: prayed taraweeh and then also left it to inform the ummah that the act is not obligatory. Much like ishraq,chast etc, to perform it is very rewarding but one can also leave it.

dont shoot me!!!!! just relaying what i heard.

I :alhamd: pray the full 20 so take it easy.

Is the ruling of all 20 across all schools or do the other schools differ in it being sunnah muak khda and the number of rakaahs?

view from the other 3 schools apart from hanafi would be greatly appreciated.

[abulayl]

its a shame that they claim to follow the salaf, but they dont pray taraweeh like salaf prayed!

prophet (sw) said to follow his sunnah and sunnah of his khulafay rashidin.
let us assume prophet(sw) prayed 8 rakah. ok its his sunnah. but what is about the 2nd part of the hadihts? where is the sunnah of khulafay rashidin?

we ahle sunnah waal jamah full fill the sunnah of prophet mohammad(sw) and also the sunnah of khulayfay rashidin.

now dont tell me, if anybody pray 20 rakah he didn´t fullfill sunnah of prophet mohammad(sw).

if any body cliam this then i gotta to go KG school again and learn 123.

cause after 8 , 20 comes,. nobody can pray 20 rakah without praying 8 rakah!.

or is there any system to salafis that according to their minority opinion 20 comes first and then 8 ! (which they could even held the right opinion!)

[bugmenot]

:salam:

Salaf also used to pray more than 20 raka't taraweeh, like 39

[Ali al-Hanafi]

I heard that Nabi :saw: prayed taraweeh and then also left it to inform the ummah that the act is not obligatory. Much like ishraq,chast etc, to perform it is very rewarding but one can also leave it.

dont shoot me!!!!! just relaying what i heard.



:salam:

Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) never left Taraweeh but did leave praying it in congregation. This merely indicates that it is not wajib to pray it in congregation, but does not mean that it is not Sunnah Mu'akkadah like the Hanafi Maddhab has ruled.

Also, many Salafis claim that 8 Raka'ats is Sunnah and that 20 Raka'ats is a bid'ah of Hazrat Umar (Allah be pleased with him) NAUDHUBILLAH!!!! Yet, they all pray the Taraweeh behind one Imam and this is something that was initiated by Hazrat Umar (Allah be pleased with him) and wasn't the practice at the time of Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him). This is nothing but a clear contradiction and I would like to hear the Salafi response to it.

[abulayl]

:salam:

Salaf also used to pray more than 20 raka't taraweeh, like 39

alhamdulillah, and my question was about the practise of khulafay rashidin.

[saud_o1]

:salam:

Ok, I've found one video with the Imam in it but he's not leading the prayer. He's standing behind the Imam, the last person on the right of the screen at around 1 min 8 secs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFRy1KoAVw&feature=related

When I find the video of him leading, you'll be able to see more clearly that he prays with his hands below the navel :insh: or wait until 1 min 48 in the video and you'll see it more clearly.

:ws: bro

I know the Imam you're talking about. His name is Adil al kalbani . While i was doing tawaf last friday instead of praying taraweeh :( (time issue) I saw the same Imam holding his hand below his navel. I was just as surprised as you were. I thought they're actually letting a hanafi pray! lol ! So i slowed my paces because he was about to go into ruku (instincts :D) to see if he raises his hands and he did. This probably means he's following the original hanbali opinion of placing the hands.

:salam:

[Abu_Bilal]

:ws: bro

I know the Imam you're talking about. His name is Adil al kalbani . While i was doing tawaf last friday instead of praying taraweeh :( (time issue) I saw the same Imam holding his hand below his navel. I was just as surprised as you were. I thought they're actually letting a hanafi pray! lol ! So i slowed my paces because he was about to go into ruku (instincts :D) to see if he raises his hands and he did. This probably means he's following the original hanbali opinion of placing the hands.

:salam:

Assalam Alaikum.

You are so blessed to be doing umrah in ramadhan. I wish i could do that too :cry:

I have heard that Adil al Kalbani is actually the imam of masjid-e-nabawi.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2780030

[Abu_Bilal]

In fact i found this ..

"There is a new imam in Al-Haram and he is Sheikh Adil Kalbani, and the reason why he is leading now in Makkah because he is highly respected in Saudi and because he memorized the whole Qur'an in just 3 months."

If this is true, then wow!

[Colonel_Hardstone]

:ws: bro

I know the Imam you're talking about. His name is Adil al kalbani . While i was doing tawaf last friday instead of praying taraweeh :( (time issue) I saw the same Imam holding his hand below his navel. I was just as surprised as you were. I thought they're actually letting a hanafi pray! lol ! So i slowed my paces because he was about to go into ruku (instincts :D) to see if he raises his hands and he did. This probably means he's following the original hanbali opinion of placing the hands.

:salam:



Shaykh adil al kalbani

Adil ibn saalim ibn saeed al kalbani was born in Riyadh in 1378 AH on the 25th of Ramadan on a Friday. He is married and has 5 sons and two daughters.

His teachers

His first teacher was shaykh hasan ibn gaanim algaanim, *and this was while he (the shaykh) was the one responsible for the department of knowledge propogation, fataawa, proselytising and guidance.* He studied from him “the three principles”, “the removal of doubt”, and some of sahih Bukhari, sahih at Tirmidhi and tafsir ibn kathir.

He also studied with shaykh Dr Mustafa Muslim. The teacher at Imam university, in the college of principles of the religion, in the tafsir baydawee. *haashee zaadah*. He studied with him the faraidh (compulsory things). And then departed to sharakah.

He studied with shaykh abul rahman ibn jibrin. *akhir tadmariyah*, he studied the two middle things small and big with the shaykh, as well as the book of monotheism form sahih Bukhari as well as a large portion of the book of belief from sahih muslim.

He studied quran with shaykh ahmad Mustafa, and he got an ijazah of hafs form aasim from shaatabis line. Shaykh Muhammed ibn nahban Egyptian also gave him an ijazah to recite aasim from the shaatabi line. Shaykh Muhammed abu rawash also gave him an ijazah of hafs from the line of fil. And this is a *good chain with the lack of munfasil*

Also he got an ijazah from shaykh Muhammed abdul hameed to recite kaaloon from nafi from the line of shaatabi.and he studied “al baqarah” from shaykha umm saad with the recitation of abi umar al basree by the transmission of dawree and sawsee.

And shaykh ismail ansaari also gave him an ijaazaah in a very famous hadith with a *strong/high* chain of narration, and it is the hadith that the ones who are merciful, the merciful (allah) will be merciful on them, and have mercy to the people of the earth, and the one who is in the heavens will have mercy on you. And this was the first hadith he heard from him. May allahs mercy be upon him. (One of Mufti Taqi Usmani's favourite Hadeeth)

And the duaa is for safety and peace, and to strive *to become* of the people of Quran. * he has have conveyed what he has learnt* and he wished to *mention a hadith that discusses the names and reward of the one who reads quran.

And we hope Allah will place this on the scale of our deeds, and enter us into the hadith “the best of you is the one who learns quran and then teaches it” and in some narrations, “the highest of rank among you is the one who learns quran and teaches it.”

There follows a long list of ijazahs gained by the shaykh.


فضيلة الشيخ / خلف بن متعب الرقاص . مدرس . وإمام وخطيب جامع أرطاوي الرقاص .
2. أمين بن عبدالحميد أبو دعمة . { عاصم } . مدرس في حلقة التحفيظ في جامع الملك خالد .
3. المهندس . جمال بن محمد العبدالله . { عاصم } .
4. وائل بن حسين صنبع . {عاصم } . مدرس .
5. أمين بن سليمان . مدرس حلقة تحفيظ .
6. فضيلة الشيخ / عبدالله الشبانات . القاضي بجدة .
7. محمد بن حسين صنبع . طالب بجامعة الملك سعود .
8. وليد الغامدي . صيدلي .
9. الرائد / حامد المطيري . { عاصم } . بوزارة الداخلية .
10. يحيى دائلي . { عاصم } . مدرس .
11. أحمد عاصم . { عاصم } وحفص من الطيبة .
12. عبدالعزيز الريس { عاصم } . مدرس وإمام في القصيم .
13. عبدالرحمن السعود . موظف في هيئة الأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر .
14. د. عصمت . أستاذ الفيزياء في جامعة الملك سعود .
15. ناصح البقمي . عاصم . موظف في وزارة الخارجية .
16. د. عمرو جمال . طبيب .

[saud_o1]

:salam:

MashaAllah. Shukran wa JazaKAllah khair

[Theta100]

who said salafis believe you cannot follow a madhab? im a shafi'i and a salafi.....aqeeda and fiqh, totally different things.......imam ibn baz rahemaho allah answers fatwas according to hanbali fiqh, he said so in his "masooat al fatawa le ibn baz"

I live in an area where salafis and sufis/asharis are living side by side....i dont hear these arguments except on forums.........Shouldnt we be thinking about death? about how much we done in our short lives? how much sunnah we do? than "diss" other people? My salafi sheikh would go crazy if he heard me say asharis going to hell or something....

[Colonel_Hardstone]

who said salafis believe you cannot follow a madhab? im a shafi'i and a salafi.....aqeeda and fiqh, totally different things.......imam ibn baz rahemaho allah answers fatwas according to hanbali fiqh, he said so in his "masooat al fatawa le ibn baz"

I live in an area where salafis and sufis/asharis are living side by side....i dont hear these arguments except on forums.........Shouldnt we be thinking about death? about how much we done in our short lives? how much sunnah we do? than "diss" other people? My salafi sheikh would go crazy if he heard me say asharis going to hell or something....

Asslamo Allaikum,

You are a Shaf'ae & a Salafi??? that makes you deficient in knowledge and someone who has fallen for Salafi propaganda.

Because Imams like Ibnul Hajr Asqalani (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) were Shaf'aes and Asharess, and so were others like Imam Baihaqi (RA) & others...so unless you consider yourself better then them...

There has been a long line of Shaf'ae Fuqaha & Masters of Hadeeth who were Asharees, just ask a person knowledgeable in Shaf'ae Fiqh and not a Salafi who likes to spin history to their whims and desires.

[Theta100]

Asslamo Allaikum,

You are a Shaf'ae & a Salafi??? that makes you deficient in knowledge and someone who has fallen for Salafi propaganda.

Because Imams like Ibnul Hajr Asqalani (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) were Shaf'aes and Asharess, and so were others like Imam Baihaqi (RA) & others...so unless you consider yourself better then them...

There has been a long line of Shaf'ae Fuqaha & Masters of Hadeeth who were Asharees, just ask a person knowledgeable in Shaf'ae Fiqh and not a Salafi who likes to spin history to their whims and desires.

I follow the salafi aqeeda in regards to attributes of allah, like where is allah..etc

I try my best to avoid bid'a .....

but when i come to pray i pray acording to the shafi'i madhab....

so now what?

[Ansari]

There are not many Salafi's who call 20 rak'aat Tarawih an innovation, but there are many who still think that 8 rak'aat were performed by our Nabi sallallahu alayhi wasallam, but still are of the opinion that 20 rak'aat were performed by the Sahaba.

Apparently this is also the opinion Ibn al-Humam in his fath al-qadir and some others. (I am not discussiing what should be performed)

Can anyone sum up the names of those scholars who viewed that 20 rak'aat Tarawih was also performed by the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam? Which scholars of Hadith etc.?

[abulayl]

Can anyone sum up the names of those scholars who viewed that 20 rak'aat Tarawih was also performed by the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam? Which scholars of Hadith etc.?

what i have personaly seen by the articles, those dont talk a lot about 20 rakah praying by prophet mohammad(sw) but umar(rd) prayed 20 rakah, and then they brings the proof of other schoalrs opinion and practice of sahaba and ijma. And there are 2-3 hadiths about prophet(sw) prayed 20 rakah, which some muhaddith think, is weak.

But if weak hadiths from prophet mohammad(sw) and strong practise from sahaba is present, what is the rules about it?

[abulayl]

I follow the salafi aqeeda in regards to attributes of allah, like where is allah..etc

I try my best to avoid bid'a .....

but when i come to pray i pray acording to the shafi'i madhab....

so now what?

According to salafis if anybody has problem with aqeedah , why he will practise or learn fiqh from them? and thats why whenever people become salafi they also change their madhab, cause according to them whose aqeedah is not upon right one, his fiqh hasn´t any value!

If the faqih and muhaddithin´s interpratations which we are follow, their aqeedah is wrong why would you learn fiqh from them? If imam nabawi(rh), ibn hajar(rh) aqeedah is not sound aqeedah then why u will reading the fiqh book which is written by them?

just asking how this things work!

[saud_o1]

In fact i found this ..

"There is a new imam in Al-Haram and he is Sheikh Adil Kalbani, and the reason why he is leading now in Makkah because he is highly respected in Saudi and because he memorized the whole Qur'an in just 3 months."

If this is true, then wow!

:salam:

Indeed.

[Musleemah]

Asslamo Allaikum,

You are a Shaf'ae & a Salafi??? that makes you deficient in knowledge and someone who has fallen for Salafi propaganda.

Because Imams like Ibnul Hajr Asqalani (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) were Shaf'aes and Asharess, and so were others like Imam Baihaqi (RA) & others...so unless you consider yourself better then them...

There has been a long line of Shaf'ae Fuqaha & Masters of Hadeeth who were Asharees, just ask a person knowledgeable in Shaf'ae Fiqh and not a Salafi who likes to spin history to their whims and desires.

wa alaykum assalam

There are many Salafi shafi'is especially in the Arab world, you find it strange because it is not common in the west, but is common in the Arab world.

My tafsir teacher who studied in al Azhar university is Salafi in aqeedah, and shafi'i in fiqh.

The Arabic multaqa of ahl hadeeth (a forum for salafi shaikhs and students of knowledge who speak Arabic, and are from different Arab countries and non Arab countries) have a good number of shafi'i members. One of the shafi'i shaikhs there is doing a project, to make a shafi'i encyclopedia (mawsu'a) or something like that and he asked shafi'i members to help him in making it.


As for Shafi'i scholars of the past, there were many who were athari/salafi in aqeedah, they weren't all Ashari, someone compiled a list of their names in another forum, I don't have it with me right now, but I will mention a few whom I can remember right now, ones who I reserached their aqeedah from their books and found it generally to be the same as that of salafis today, at least in the issue of Allah's attributes, and some also on the issue of iman, I have not researched other matters of aqeedah yet.

- Imam at Tabari [310 H.] (some believe he was shafi'i and others believed he was independant mujtahid)
- al Hafidh Ibn Khuazimah rahimahu Allah (311 H.)
- Darqutni (385 H.)
- al Lalkai (418 H.)
- Abu al Mudhaffar as-Sam'ani (during 400s H.)
- al Baghawi (during 500s H.)
- al Mizzi (742 H.)
- Adh Dhahabi (700s H.)

Most were scholars of hadith (muhaditheen).

[Musleemah]

According to salafis if anybody has problem with aqeedah , why he will practise or learn fiqh from them? and thats why whenever people become salafi they also change their madhab, cause according to them whose aqeedah is not upon right one, his fiqh hasn´t any value!

If the faqih and muhaddithin´s interpratations which we are follow, their aqeedah is wrong why would you learn fiqh from them? If imam nabawi(rh), ibn hajar(rh) aqeedah is not sound aqeedah then why u will reading the fiqh book which is written by them?

just asking how this things work!

when one becomes salafi in aqeedah he does not have to change his fiqh madhhab, especially if your a student of knowledge.
But many laymen do change, and stop following a specific madhhab because of the opinion that laymen make taqlid of the shaikh they seek fatwa from, not a specific madhhab.
Also, in regards to some madhhabs (i.e. Hanafi), most of their shaikhs today are not Salafi in aqeedah, so one would worry that they might get affected by the muftis aqeedah. This is in regards to laymen who can't distinguish between right and wrong.
But for students of knowledge who have good and firm knowledge of aqeedah, then it would be no problem, insha Allah.


I am a Salafi, and I can study the Hanafi fiqh instead of the Hanbali if I wanted to, but I didn't because the dominant madhhab where I live is Hanbali.

[Kas1m]

Alhamdulillah this year I read all 20 rakahs everyday except one day. May Allah forgive me

[al_Zayn]

when one becomes salafi in aqeedah he does not have to change his fiqh madhhab, especially if your a student of knowledge.
But many laymen do change, and stop following a specific madhhab because of the opinion that laymen make taqlid of the shaikh they seek fatwa from, not a specific madhhab.
Also, in regards to some madhhabs (i.e. Hanafi), most of their shaikhs today are not Salafi in aqeedah, so one would worry that they might get affected by the muftis aqeedah. This is in regards to laymen who can't distinguish between right and wrong.
But for students of knowledge who have good and firm knowledge of aqeedah, then it would be no problem, insha Allah.


I am a Salafi, and I can study the Hanafi fiqh instead of the Hanbali if I wanted to, but I didn't because the dominant madhhab where I live is Hanbali.

Having the name 'Salafi' doesn't mean you have the right `Aqeedah, moreover having the most pious titles doesn't qualify you with a 'right aqeedah' card, then that would mean the Quranist who call themselves Ahlul Quran, Shi`as calling themselves Ahlul Bayt, the Qadiyanis calling themselves Ahmadiyyah etc would also make them qualify for this entitlment.

Majority of the Hanafi Muftis today have the Salafi `Aeedah, the actual `Aqeedah of the Salaf, not the one conjured up in the name of the Salaf i.e. Present day Ghayr Muqallid inclined `Aqeedah.

Infact this is the case since they teach in their Madaris, in their normal Maktabs, in their Masjids etc the basic belief in what you need to know and what is obligatory to know About Allah, his Angels, his Messengers, his Kitaabs etc....nothing more nothing less.

It is at odds with your statment that the Hanafi Ulama have not the Salafi `Aqeedah.

It is something that needs substantiating by you.

:ws: