Tahira Halal Foods in UK

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Halal frozen Kabab & Meat products from Tahira are appearing up and down the country in UK in many Muslim & Non-Muslim establishments (including ASDA etc.).

Spoke to Maulana Adam Kapadia (http://www.halalmc.co.uk/)of HMC last night and asked him about Tahira Foods (http://www.tahira.com/index.htm) and he said:

Tahira Foods worked with HMC in the beginning but they found our requirements for Halal foods to be intrusive and therefore pulled out therefore HMC is unable to comment on their products.

[Ibn_Harith]

Where is Tahira based and doesn't the meat come from somewhere in Europe?

[marco100]

They are HFA and therefore NOT halal guys.

HMC won't comment on them but Tahira are affiliated with HFA who are NOT halal.

[Abbe]

They are HFA and therefore NOT halal guys.

HMC won't comment on them but Tahira are affiliated with HFA who are NOT halal.

Salamu aleykum
Are you sure tat the meat from Tahira is not halal?

I found this on there homepage:

The slaughtering is done in the presence of a Muslim.
In the presence???

[marco100]

Tahira is affiliated with HFA and HFA's requirements for "halal" are:

Mechanical slaughter- allowed
Stunning - Allowed
Bismillah said personally (i.e by MUSLIM) at time of slaughter - not necessary
Inspector on site - No
Outlets checked regularly - No

I've been given this info by HMC who collected this info as part of their fact finding missions.

So when they say HMC were too intrusive, do you see why? lol

Tahira is affiliated with HFA which is NOT HALAL. The shocking thing is they "guarantee" halal. This is playing games with our deen brothers and sisters and we not anyone else, WE have sat by and ate what they gave us.

I'm putting something together soon inshallah so the muslim public mainly the youth gets the information because the elders are so lost in he hope of finding cheap chickens they'll believe anything Uncle Butcher tells them.

[Abbe]

Salamu aleykum



Mechanical slaughter- allowed
For chickens only, right?


Stunning - Allowed
Are the animals still alive after stunning, ande before slaughtering?


Bismillah said personally (i.e by MUSLIM) at time of slaughter - not necessary
At least in the shafi'i madh-hab the basmala is not a condition.

[alfatiha]

At least in the shafi'i madh-hab the basmala is not a condition.


:salam:
As far as I know, it is a condition... can you shed a light on this? :jazak:

[Sister Khadijah]

Are the animals still alive after stunning, ande before slaughtering?




I'm confused -I'm not sure of your question's significance - if they are alive - then the animal would not be in a calm state for slaughter and if they aren't then they would not have been killed by slaughter....

I've seen Kosher slaughter - and they can slaughter an animal without getting it distressed, without needing stunning, and in one swipe of a very sharp knife (sharp enuff to cut a hair with, and no knicks in that knife - lest that the animal doesn't die on first cut)...

[marco100]

I'm confused -I'm not sure of your question's significance - if they are alive - then the animal would not be in a calm state for slaughter and if they aren't then they would not have been killed by slaughter....

I've seen Kosher slaughter - and they can slaughter an animal without getting it distressed, without needing stunning, and in one swipe of a very sharp knife (sharp enuff to cut a hair with, and no knicks in that knife - least that animal doesn't die on first cut)...

I have a lot of respect for the way Jewish folk make sure their meat is kosher. Everything is correct down to a T. Contrast with the Ummah of Muhammad saw who couldn't give two hoots where their meat comes from. When we don't care what goes in our tummies is it any wonder this Ummah is in the state it's in with fitnah's left right and centre??

[xs11ax]

I have a lot of respect for the way Jewish folk make sure their meat is kosher. Everything is correct down to a T. Contrast with the Ummah of Muhammad saw who couldn't give two hoots where their meat comes from. When we don't care what goes in our tummies is it any wonder this Ummah is in the state it's in with fitnah's left right and centre??

well said.

[Abbe]

:salam:
As far as I know, it is a condition... can you shed a light on this? :jazak:

Salamu aleykum

Its recommended, but not a condition, and the animal will be halal even if the basmala was left out intentionally.

In the Tuhfa Ibn Hajar wrote:

وَإِنَّمَا كُرِهَ تَعَمُّدُ تَرْكِ التَّسْمِيَةِ ، وَلَمْ يَحْرُمْ ؛ لِأَنَّهُ تَعَالَى أَبَاحَ ذَبَائِحَ الْكِتَابِيِّينَ ، وَهُمْ لَا يُسَمُّونَ غَالِبًا ، وَقَدْ أَمَرَ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِيمَا شُكَّ أَنَّ ذَابِحَهُ سَمَّى أَمْ لَا بِأَكْلِهِ فَلَوْ كَانَتْ التَّسْمِيَةُ شَرْطًا لَمَا حَلَّ عِنْدَ الشَّكِّ ، وَالْمُرَادُ بِمَا لَمْ يُذْكَرْ اسْمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ فِي الْآيَةِ مَا ذُكِرَ عَلَيْهِ اسْمُ الصَّنَمِ بِدَلِيلِ { وَإِنَّهُ لَفِسْقٌ } ؛ إذْ الْإِجْمَاعُ مُنْعَقِدٌ عَلَى أَنَّ مَنْ أَكَلَ ذَبِيحَةَ مُسْلِمٍ لَمْ يُسْمَ عَلَيْهَا لَيْسَ بِفَاسِقٍ فَلَا فَرْقَ بَيْنَ جَعْلِ الْوَاوِ لِلْحَالِ ، وَلِغَيْرِهِ


I'm confused -I'm not sure of your question's significance - if they are alive - then the animal would not be in a calm state for slaughter and if they aren't then they would not have been killed by slaughter....
If the animal dies because of the stunning it will not be halal, but if its still alive it will be halal (at least in the shafii school).

Im not talking about what is optimal, im just talking about halal or not. The original post was saying its not halal, and im trying to find out if he really means that the meat is not halal or if he means that Tahira omits a lot of recommended acts (im not saying they are unimportant).

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Marco100,

Quote: " have a lot of respect for the way Jewish folk make sure their meat is kosher. Everything is correct down to a T. Contrast with the Ummah of Muhammad saw who couldn't give two hoots where their meat comes from. When we don't care what goes in our tummies is it any wonder this Ummah is in the state it's in with fitnah's left right and centre??"

The Kosher meat is slaughtered by a special Rabbi called Sashet, no one can slaughter. If he is slaughtering 10 cows, he will say the prayer on the first cow and the last cow. He will not say any prayer on cow No. 2 to No. 9.

Kosher meat is not consider Halal because of the above practice. I spent many years with Rabbis in US food industry for Kosher certification of different food companies where I use to work. I was coordinator for Kosher certification for Nabisco's Oreo, Chips AHoy brownies and Snack Well cake products.


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group
www.muslimconsumergroup.com


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed

[Sister Khadijah]

It would be interesting to know the answer to Abbe's question with regards the basmala....especially given the idea that Kosher meat is not halal because of the practice stated by Rasheedahmed, given that the animal is still slaughtered in a better manner than what we see at the moment - ie minimal distress/quick/at the jugular.

About stunning, I'm trying to recall on BBC's kill it cook it eat it, programme (to view on Youtube, need to sign in)...I think the animal was stunned b4 being shot, but I don't wish to say this without proper visual proof...which they showed on that prog....yes, I believe therefore they may be alive still on stunning..

I just happened upon this link

http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/stunning.php

and this...>?? http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/fatwa-stunning.php

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Marco100,

Quote: " have a lot of respect for the way Jewish folk make sure their meat is kosher. Everything is correct down to a T. Contrast with the Ummah of Muhammad saw who couldn't give two hoots where their meat comes from. When we don't care what goes in our tummies is it any wonder this Ummah is in the state it's in with fitnah's left right and centre??"

The Kosher meat is slaughtered by a special Rabbi called Sashet, no one can slaughter. If he is slaughtering 10 cows, he will say the prayer on the first cow and the last cow. He will not say any prayer on cow No. 2 to No. 9.

Kosher meat is not consider Halal because of the above practice. I spent many years with Rabbis in US food industry for Kosher certification of different food companies where I use to work. I was coordinator for Kosher certification for Nabisco's Oreo, Chips AHoy brownies and Snack Well cake products.


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group
www.muslimconsumergroup.com




Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
W_Salam,

Absolutely Correct!

Jewish Rabbis don't pray on every single slaughter and sometimes they actually bless the place and surrounding and not every single animal like we Muslims are supposed to do , therefore to think that KOSHER meat is Halal is delusional.

But I agree with Br Marco Marco100 comments about the Ummah being in a right mess over this.

[Sister Khadijah]

Surely no God's name being mentioned over slaughtered meat (eg Jewish slaughtered) and then saying bismillah before you eat it - if you found yourself in such a situation - than a hindu God or some other God's name being said over it is better or allowed...it's a question...just wondering about it......

And kosher meat being halal being a delusional thought - perhaps in this circumstance it is...but I mean what about the people of the Book and all that...

*sorry if that sounded confusing...thinking too much*

[marco100]

I'm not saying kosher meat is halal guys! I'm saying I have respect how a lot of them carry out kosher slaughter as it should be done. At least they have a rabbi there!

[Hamza81]

Asalaam wr wb hope all the brothers and sisters are making the best of every second in this most blessed month of ramadhan!
This issue of stunned and non stunned meat is one that confuses the average muslim from day to day life. Whether we should buy meat from the local halal fried chicken or khans butchers or not?

The fact is brothers and sisters that the islamic zabha method states that an animal MUST NOT DIE before it is slaughtered otherwise it will be deemed as haram!

When chickens in particular are stunned by electric shock then NO ONE CAN GUARANTEE THAT THEY ARE NOT DEAD PRIOR SLAUGHTER! You will find many muslim companys giving you their guarantees and promises that when they stun their chickens that they make sure they're not dead prior slaughter and that their employees that carry out the zabha make sure of this! ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

When your slaughtering thousands of chickens everyday and you do zabha like a robot do u think that they will thoroughly check every single chicken to make sure they're not dead before they're slaughtered? CERTAINLY NOT!

Just for purposes of profit these muslims companies adopt stunning methods so that they're chickens stop flapping around prior slaughter and consequantly they make the zabha haram by adopting such cruel, inhumane and very unislamic methods! Dont let these so called muslim companies try and fool you into thinking that stunning is halal when it clearly isnt! Ive spoken to companies like HFA many times who DON'T DO ANY CHECKS whatsoever on any muslim company! so how can they say that any company are adopting halal zabha mehtods? Are they just dreaming it? what is the purpose of HFA? just to sit there and give the halal stamp to any muslim company that they come by? because they certainly don't check them in anyway!

Companies like Nandos who offer so called "halal chicken" are fooling many of us into thinking that their chickens are actually halal! RUBBISH! their chickens come from "FREEMANS of Gloucester" which are the biggest provider of "so called halal chickens" in this country! There chickens are ALL STUNNED and even they admit that they can't guarantee that any chicken is alive prior slaughter!

Islam teaches us to keep away from that which is doubtful otherwise we will fall into haram! so we should keep well away from any chickens that are stunned prior to slaughter!

My brothers and sisters this is all a test for us! Allah wants to see whether we will fall into that which is doubtful or will we keep away from it because of the fear of allah and we should not be fooled by these companies who through shaythan are trying to decieve us just for their own profit!

There are still many muslim companies who do abide by the islamic zabha criterea and we should try and research into whatever butcher, takeaway that we go to or are thinking of going to just to make sure that they don't use stunned meat!

Because if we put haram into our bodys then we are risking our dua's and deeds not being accepted! and if we make full effort and are determined to make sure we eat non stunned chicken then this will be great reward for us and will make allah so happy that his slaves are so concerned with consuming halal and making him happy!

May allah help us all put halal into our body's and keep away from anything that is doubtful or haram for us! ameen

[marco100]

HFA is NOT halal.

[Saj]

Asalamalaikum,

I would be grateful if someone could post the details of those muslim companies who do abide by the islamic zabha criterea.

We could then contact them to see which local butcher, takeaway etc use truly Halal meat.

Jazakallah

[ENIGMA]

I have a one or two issues with HMC but overall, they are doing wonderfull job of tying to put our butchers,shops etc under pressure and making sure we are eating HALAL meat and chickens.

Just the other day, a local shop was having a sale on chickens and muslims went mental. Just a sign to say Halal but no verification or anything. and people just dont care. money talks,apparently.

I know a guy that goes to the local farm every thursday, and personally slaughters about 10 chickens for himself and his family. No stunning,nowt. Just puts the chicken in a cage like contraption, with the neck sticking out, and Bismillah!!!

So obviously that not HMC but it's still Halal.

[marco100]

I have a one or two issues with HMC but overall, they are doing wonderfull job of tying to put our butchers,shops etc under pressure and making sure we are eating HALAL meat and chickens.

Just the other day, a local shop was having a sale on chickens and muslims went mental. Just a sign to say Halal but no verification or anything. and people just dont care. money talks,apparently.

I know a guy that goes to the local farm every thursday, and personally slaughters about 10 chickens for himself and his family. No stunning,nowt. Just puts the chicken in a cage like contraption, with the neck sticking out, and Bismillah!!!

So obviously that not HMC but it's still Halal.

lack of education is a big issue. also, i've given up on elders as they are money hungry. we're focussing more on youngsters, as thats the future inshallah. pray for hmc brothers and sisters.

[ENIGMA]

lack of education is a big issue. also, i've given up on elders as they are money hungry. we're focussing more on youngsters, as thats the future inshallah. pray for hmc brothers and sisters.

The youngsters do want change but the old uncle gees have a vice like grip in our communities. And they prepare their family members to carry on their duties. It depresses me some of the stuff that happens in our community and the respect given to dodgy operators due to money. Money has been aquired by 100% haram means yet no one gives a hoot. Monies haram I say. Dont care, just want the biggest masjid in our town is the reply.

Its like an haram or wrong practice has been happenign for the past 50 years and when the young guys see the error and try to change things, they get threatened or get told, 'dont rock the boat'.

May Allah help you in your efforts with regards to HMC!!!

[bint abdul hameed]

Asalamu Alaikum, Just if you would like to know, Crescent meat is halal, and i'm hundred percent sure because my mom talked to Mualana Nawal-ur-Rahman sahab rahimahullah!, and then he recommended it, I know you can find it in Atlanta, and Florida, I think you should find it all over USA.

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum

I think the Crescent food do not have the capacity to supply to whole USA. But I am not sure. Majority of Halal meat stores in Chicago area carry Cresent chicken including three Brown's Chicken stores. I did the investigation of coating on Brown's Chicken at Hoffman Estate, IL store and find the coating is Halal. But there are some Halal meat restauarant in Chicago which used machine cut chickens. In many part of USA, machine cut chicken sold as Zabiha. But many ulema and Muslim do not considered them as Zabiha.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group
www.muslimconsumergroup.com

[Crystal_sword]

Old thread i know, but i was wondering, i saw on the "Tahira Foods" packaging that it is Halal according to the "World Islamic foundation".

Now i want to know is it Halal according to "HFA" or "World Islamic Foundation".

Can someone provide some information the "World Islamic Foundation"??

Jazakallah Kair

[Hamza81]

Old thread i know, but i was wondering, i saw on the "Tahira Foods" packaging that it is Halal according to the "World Islamic foundation".

Now i want to know is it Halal according to "HFA" or "World Islamic Foundation".

Can someone provide some information the "World Islamic Foundation"??

Jazakallah Kair

Asalaam wr wb, NEVER trust HFA whatever you do! They do NOT send ANY meat inspectors to ANY of the places they brand as being halal! Its always best in this country the UK to trust HMC because they send out inspectors all the time to ALL the places they certify! Best NOT to trust these other organisations as HMC is the ONLY trust worthy one with the backing of Scholars and ulema of Islam!

Look at the website for yourself:

http://www.halalmc.co.uk/

Jazakallah Allah hafiz

[Hamza81]

I e mailed Tahira foods recently:

My message: Asalaam wr wb i just wanted to ask do you use stunned meat? Animal that has been stunned before slaughter to prevent it from moving around too much before slaughter? Jazakallah


Their reply:

Wa alaikum assalam All Tahira products containing lamb or beef come from non-stunned animals. Chicken products on the other hand come from chicken which paa in a bain marie where they are slightly electrocuted before being slaughtered. An inspector is on hand to ensure that the animal is not dead. Salaam Tahira Foods Limited

My reply to their e mail:

But of course it is not always 100% that every single chicken is fully alive prior to zabah? Be honest please!

Their reply again:

Assalamu aleikum

This is our method however as you know only God (SWT) is all knowing infallible and there is no way anyone can make a statement that mistakes may not happen because they do and they will. As they say "Homo erratum" i.e. to err is human.

"We do our best and leave to God the rest."

Salaam

Tahira Foods Limited

Then my reply again:

Of course and thats why it is best to keep away from ANY method of stunning but of course companies do it because it quickens the process of zabah which leads to profit maximisation to the detriment of the true method of zabah which states that NO animal must die prior to zabah! May Allah help us all and guide us to the truth jazakallah for your help! Allah hafiz

There reply finally

Indeed we agree. However please be assured that it is NOT our request to have the bird stunned. There are simply no slaughterhouses willing to offer hand slaughtered birds in an industrial quantity and on a constant and professional basis. If there were believe me we would have opted for that. Furthermore this is complicated by the fact that some of our value added products utilise only a portion of a slaughtered chicken and no slaughterhouse would entertain hand slaughtering unless we were to commit to take up all the portions. As a company we have neither the capability nor internal knowledge how to deal with the excess portions left unused.

Walhamdulillah this is not the case where lamb and beef are concerned. Allah knws best.

Salaam

Tahira Foods Limited

It is clear that thier lamb and beef is fine but please avoid their chicken as we don't know if its dead prior to slaughter or not! So it is best avoided! Jazakallah

[Crystal_sword]

So what's the verdict of their lamb and chicken.

Are they halal?

Just wondering because they may be mixed with their chicken supplies...

[Hamza81]

So what's the verdict of their lamb and chicken.

Are they halal?

Just wondering because they may be mixed with their chicken supplies...

They're lamb and beef are halal!

And Allah knows best

[Intrepid]

I have a lot of respect for the way Jewish folk make sure their meat is kosher. Everything is correct down to a T. Contrast with the Ummah of Muhammad saw who couldn't give two hoots where their meat comes from. When we don't care what goes in our tummies is it any wonder this Ummah is in the state it's in with fitnah's left right and centre??

Ironic how we can trust something that says Kosher on it (meaning it would have met all their Jewish criteria for Zabiha), but we can trust something that says Halaal on it.

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum

Kosher meat is not Halal because it did not meet the criteria for Ahlektab slaughtered meat. The reason is that they do not announce the prayer on each animals only first and the last animal. Those animals between first and last for example if 10 cows have to be slaughter on same day, Sachet(Rabbi who slaughter animals) says prayer on first animal and the 10th but not on 2-9.

For Zabiha meat you to investigate to see if they follow all sharia rules, if they do then consume their slaughtered zabiha meat otherwise not.


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[AnotherMuslim]

on their website www.tahira.com Tahira foods say their food is checked by the World Islamic Foundation. However apart from their site i cannot find any information about this organisation online. I have checked other Halal certification authorities in other countries too but found nothing. Nor have i heard of anyone lese using this organisation to certify their products are halal.
This puts alot of doubt in my mind about the authenticity of their claim.
I have emailed tahira and asked them to provide contact information for the World Islamic Foundation. If they reply i will put a post here.
As consumers we MUST be given open information about any claim to selling halal food.
If we accept without question any tom,**** or harry can say it is halal and we will gladly squander our hard earned cash and our deen and eat anything.
Help yourselves and the Ummah go check their website and also email them asking them for more info. Then if you are still doubtful best is to avoid their products.

[Hamza81]

on their website www.tahira.com Tahira foods say their food is checked by the World Islamic Foundation. However apart from their site i cannot find any information about this organisation online. I have checked other Halal certification authorities in other countries too but found nothing. Nor have i heard of anyone lese using this organisation to certify their products are halal.
This puts alot of doubt in my mind about the authenticity of their claim.
I have emailed tahira and asked them to provide contact information for the World Islamic Foundation. If they reply i will put a post here.
As consumers we MUST be given open information about any claim to selling halal food.
If we accept without question any tom,**** or harry can say it is halal and we will gladly squander our hard earned cash and our deen and eat anything.
Help yourselves and the Ummah go check their website and also email them asking them for more info. Then if you are still doubtful best is to avoid their products.

Asalaamu Alaikum, that is why it is best to stick to HMC meat products because at least that way one is sure that what one is consuming is properly halaal. You can't trust Muslim organisations nowadays because a lot of them just don't care and it is a very sad state of affairs to say the least.

We should always contact the supplier of any butcher and restaurant we eat from to check that the chicken is not stunned as most places used stunned chicken.

[Idil_]

Tahira products are the most digusting stuff ive ever eaten...very plasticy I think they use maybe 20% meat content and they bulk it up with the usual garbage.Having said that, there should also be another more important reason not to eat them, I remember watching a documentary on bbc about meat factories and they showed how tahira had PORK in it ...anyone else remember the programme I'm on about..it was quite some time ago and I can't remember the title!

[rasheedahmed]

" Hamza 81

Asalaamu Alaikum, that is why it is best to stick to HMC meat products because at least that way one is sure that what one is consuming is properly halaal. You can't trust Muslim organisations nowadays because a lot of them just don't care and it is a very sad state of affairs to say the least.

We should always contact the supplier of any butcher and restaurant we eat from to check that the chicken is not stunned as most places used stunned chicken."

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Hamza 81,

It is true that majority of Muslim Organizations can not be trusted but their are exceptions such as HMC in UK. MCG do not Halal certify any non meat products made with alcohol containg flavors. We are not involve in Halal meat certification. We provide our criteria for Halal status of a food product on our website and many Muslim organizations do not provide their criteria on their website so Muslim consumers are in dark about their recommendation.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA/Canada
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[AnotherMuslim]

Asalaamu Alaikum, that is why it is best to stick to HMC meat products because at least that way one is sure that what one is consuming is properly halaal. You can't trust Muslim organisations nowadays because a lot of them just don't care and it is a very sad state of affairs to say the least.

We should always contact the supplier of any butcher and restaurant we eat from to check that the chicken is not stunned as most places used stunned chicken.

Yes you are right brother. I still haven't received any reply from tahira foods to my email, i will post it here if i do. Unfortuneately alot Muslims believe that if it says Halal on the tin thats what you get.:frown:

[AbuMohammed]

http://www.muftisays.com/forums/people-s-say/7029/asda-tesco-morrisons-sainsbury-s-etc.html

Summary:

1. Tahira use Mechanical Slaughter for Chicken which is NOT permissible in Shariah see here: http://daruliftaa.net/General-Islamic/machineslaughter.html

2. Tahira also stun chickens...

[AbuMohammed]

Tahira have replied to my emails and can be seen in the Muftisays link above.

Jazakallahu khair.