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celt islam
14-09-2008, 05:30 PM
The Collapse of the Monetarist Society

Part One

by Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi

In Sura Ta Ha (20:128) The Qur’an speaks clearly. Allah asks:



Are they not guided
by the many generations We have destroyed before them,
among whose dwelling places they walk about?
There are Signs in that for people of sound intellect.

What, firstly, is the venous system of the present world society? The life-blood which activates every organ, limb and sinew of human life on our planet is of course, money. Not real-wealth, not commodities, not minerals and certainly not oil and gas. The money system is not specie, it is neither coin, nor bonds, nor bank-notes. It is pure number. Yet the numbers have been assigned to things. It is the connectedness of number to things that sustains that system which finally is showing itself as unsustainable.


In order that this money system continue to function, it follows from this, the relational pattern of number to thing must be in place.


Now, right away, we discover the hidden protocol on which that relational connection, that necessary relational connection, is dependent for its existence.


At the binding core of the world money system is the human creature, for it is his acceptance of the dynamic which agrees that between thing and number is a link which in turn authorises or licenses the whole global string of activities which propel the movement of things by the mutually agreed instrument of a number sequence unlocking itself from thing to person and from person to thing.


Thus the whole sequence is itself dependent on the activating person. For the monetary system of the current society to function – an accepting individual is necessary.


Now, in order to gain the acquiescence of the person in the sequence of events we have indicated, that person has to have accepted that both the specifics and their activation are real and have meaning. It must, in short, make sense – be reasonable.


The person concerned can be motivated to participate in the money process in two possible modes:


1] He is convinced by verification that:

a) The numbers are real, that is, have value intrinsically, that is, in themselves, prior to the money-thing propulsion.

b) The thing is real, existent, present in a place.

c) That the activating current that ‘assigns’ connection from number to thing is real, makes sense, and has social confirmation.

2] He is compelled by the compulsion that obliges its acceptance:

a) Because of his prior role in the money-thing process which entraps him into going along with the method.

b) Because of an undifferentiated anxiety about both money and thing, as well as any possible linkage.

c) While knowing the sequence is false, he feels helpless to dismantle it.

d) He knows it is unreal and so false, and at the same time continues to practise it.


In the first case it is both known and demonstrable that the number has no intrinsic value and no existence except as abstract. It is also known that things exist in themselves. What cannot be proved is that the dynamic linking of number to thing is real in itself. It takes on existence by the evocation of it by a person who in turn must convince another that the pulsating link has an actual if unprovable reality. Therefore the whole sequence is determined by the convinced individual and by necessary extension a counterpart individual.


Nevertheless since the accepting individual cannot exist in reason, the individual, the activator of the system has to be in the second case: that means


a) compelled

b) in anxiety

c) nihilistic

d) psychotic.


Either one or all of the first three or the last, simply, or as a combination of the first three in crisis.


If man himself is the cause and the effect that energises the present disastrous world system, then man must be diagnosed, his sickness identified and his cure enacted.


In one of the most important medical schemas of our time there is a model of disease that is not reliant uniquely on specifying the viral agent itself, but rather proposes a more complex view that takes into account the social environment, the civic order and then the person as part of that total reality. In an epidemic event, the illness itself is seen not as a virus first, but as a diseased zone. The disease itself is defined as “miasma”. The polluted earth, the poisoned sea, the mineral depleted vegetables, the hormone-pumped meat, the disappearing species, the toxic air – all that is not merely the ambient setting of disease but the disease itself. Put simply, but differently from the accepted model, the sequence tuberculosis virus kills among the overcrowded poor, but penicillin cures it, is replaced by the view – industrial squalor flowers into a lung-destroying entity, which can be nursed on the mountain clinic. The viral view far from eliminating the illness has produced a now resistant super-bug, again without a cure.


The miasma of the current global disease has in it not only the imbalance of mass poverty and climactic disorder but a set of invented social mores that have smashed the model of man’s upbringing in a family nexus, abolishing marriage and casting the individual adrift without any intimate or civic ties. No family. No clan. No native land. No religion.


The miasma of the modern swamp called ‘the world community’ is made more obscure by two layers of patterning. The first is the structuralism of the whole social apparatus. Education is monitored by the State. Policing is outside the command of man, hidden by legal and government edicts. The structure of governance itself, being utterly divorced from the numbers-linked-thing system, which is the only empowered government that exists, is a kind of civic-centre theatre unable to dismantle the money-linked-thing monetarism of power.


The second is the imposed necessity of this individual man to accept that the money system a) is real and b) is actually working.


To prevent man from awakening before the system collapses, and before he can propose rescue, he finds himself re-defined as mass-man, and this is not just a communist phenomenon as in North Korea but it is essential to the new world system of democracy, and it manifests in Olympic Games, World Cup Sports Events, mass rock concerts and marathon runs.


The world miasma has seen and continues to see the extinction of specific species. In other words the genetic pattern of a species simply cannot survive the miasmic swamping which prevents that creature being precisely that creature. Only zoos are keeping alive some species just as the alpine sanatorium kept alive the dying tubercular patient. In the same way man is disappearing. Man, as understood by Aeschylus, Shakespeare and Ibsen may soon be gone.

http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/content/articles/Art082_13092008.html

Abdullah Abbas
14-09-2008, 07:09 PM
The Collapse of the Monetarist Society

Part One

by Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi

In Sura Ta Ha (20:128) The Qur’an speaks clearly. Allah asks:



Are they not guided
by the many generations We have destroyed before them,
among whose dwelling places they walk about?
There are Signs in that for people of sound intellect.

What, firstly, is the venous system of the present world society? The life-blood which activates every organ, limb and sinew of human life on our planet is of course, money. Not real-wealth, not commodities, not minerals and certainly not oil and gas. The money system is not specie, it is neither coin, nor bonds, nor bank-notes. It is pure number. Yet the numbers have been assigned to things. It is the connectedness of number to things that sustains that system which finally is showing itself as unsustainable.

.....
The world miasma has seen and continues to see the extinction of specific species. In other words the genetic pattern of a species simply cannot survive the miasmic swamping which prevents that creature being precisely that creature. Only zoos are keeping alive some species just as the alpine sanatorium kept alive the dying tubercular patient. In the same way man is disappearing. Man, as understood by Aeschylus, Shakespeare and Ibsen may soon be gone.

http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/content/articles/Art082_13092008.html


interesting article akhi , do you know a scholar called Imran Hosein he wrote a lot about this topic aswell

http://www.imranhosein.org/

http://www.1islam.net/img/productImages/Films%20(DVD)/Imran%20Hosein/Monetary%20System.jpg

Ma'ruf
15-09-2008, 08:48 AM
interesting article akhi , do you know a scholar called Imran Hosein he wrote a lot about this topic aswell

http://www.imranhosein.org/

http://www.1islam.net/img/productImages/Films%20(DVD)/Imran%20Hosein/Monetary%20System.jpg

I think it's Imran Hosein knows of Sheikh Abdalqadir and his work; his (Hosein's) old site, if I am not mistaken, displayed the image of the new Islamic gold dinar which has been restored to existence by Sheikh Abdalqadir's followers, at the Sheikh's instruction. Hamdella it's nice to think of our great minds co-operating with each other : )

Abdullah Abbas
15-09-2008, 11:16 AM
I think it's Imran Hosein knows of Sheikh Abdalqadir and his work; his (Hosein's) old site, if I am not mistaken, displayed the image of the new Islamic gold dinar which has been restored to existence by Sheikh Abdalqadir's followers, at the Sheikh's instruction. Hamdella it's nice to think of our great minds co-operating with each other : )

i heard maulana imran is connected to the murabitun not sure althrough , the old site is back up soon ,

laughinglion
15-09-2008, 11:23 PM
:salam:

Peace be upon you sidi `Abdullah,we hope your well.

I understand from my reading of this piece by our Shaykh, Allah bless and protect him and benefit us by him, that all who accept the present economic system, and our nourished by it, bear a degree of culpability for the present global disorder. I say this is understandable of the misguided, but for Muslims who have divine guidance and should stand out for justice....

with peace

TruthHood
15-09-2008, 11:38 PM
:salam:

I may not personally agree with some murabitun opinions (E.G Niqab Issue) but i have to applaud them for their work with economics. If you read up about freemasonic international bankers (Rockefeller, Rotshchild etc) you will understand how such an elite group can sway the world with their control on currency.
Imran Hosein book 'Jerusalam in the Qur'an' is excellent btw.

jinnzaman
16-09-2008, 01:06 AM
The banking system in the US wasn't set up by the freemasons, nor was its Constitution written by them.

Dhul-Qarnayn
16-09-2008, 03:19 AM
Who is this Shaykh? Anyone have more information, perhaps a bio?

andy8118
16-09-2008, 04:35 AM
:salam:

Abdal Qadir is the founder of the murabit movement. One of the other murabits can correct me here, but he started as Abdal Qadir As-sufi then Abdal Qadir ar-Murabit now back to As-sufi.

Imran Hosein, i thought was a barelwi? But that's from straight conjecture, no evidence or anything, just from what i remember hearing him say when he came to Aust.

:ws:

Dhul-Qarnayn
16-09-2008, 05:43 AM
:salam:

Abdal Qadir is the founder of the murabit movement. One of the other murabits can correct me here, but he started as Abdal Qadir As-sufi then Abdal Qadir ar-Murabit now back to As-sufi.

Imran Hosein, i thought was a barelwi? But that's from straight conjecture, no evidence or anything, just from what i remember hearing him say when he came to Aust.

:ws:What's the murabit movement?

anhero
16-09-2008, 08:31 AM
What's the murabit movement?

They are a minor sect that are more active on the internet than their size should allow.

They have deviant fiqh and their tariqat is baatil.

They are so small that if you speak to any scholars who don't waste time on the internet its most likely they will never have heard of these fellows.

Colonel_Hardstone
16-09-2008, 08:39 AM
:salam:

Abdal Qadir is the founder of the murabit movement. One of the other murabits can correct me here, but he started as Abdal Qadir As-sufi then Abdal Qadir ar-Murabit now back to As-sufi.

Imran Hosein, i thought was a barelwi? But that's from straight conjecture, no evidence or anything, just from what i remember hearing him say when he came to Aust.

:ws:

W-Salam,

There are plenty of thread about Shaykh Abdul-Qadir As-Sufi, please search Murabatoon (and/or various others spellings); I was particularly impressed with the group until I came to SF, read posts from Murabits & people like Abdus-Samad Clarke and when the views of this group contrary to Qur'aan & Sunnah were brought to my attention. There differences with Ahlus-Sunnah have been found to be far too numerous and clear to be ignored.

Maulana Imran Hossein was actually connected to Dr Israr Ahmed (Tanzeem Islami) until he parted company, I am not sure if Maulana was ever a Barelwee.

Ma'ruf
16-09-2008, 08:54 AM
They are a minor sect that are more active on the internet than their size should allow.

They have deviant fiqh and their tariqat is baatil.

They are so small that if you speak to any scholars who don't waste time on the internet its most likely they will never have heard of these fellows.

What a meanhearted reply, and what rubbish. I would leave it to the members of the movement to defend themselves, but this is just awful. And in Ramadan too!

To the best of my knowledge, they are a movement of people inspired by a very determined Shaykh to put fiqh into action in real life. Its members have translated numerous essential works into english (ash shifa, al Muwatta, and many others). They rebuilt the mosque of Granada in Spain after hundreds of years, and have founded schools. They established dawah in many countries, even Mexico, where they have established a community of mainly native mayan muslims. Sickened by the usury that dominates this world, they did not merely seek to islamicise capitalism (like islamic banking), but replace it altogether with halal transactions as were practised in the time of the Prophet - and to do so, they are starting with the removal of paper money, and the minting the gold dinar and silver dirham to the standard confirmed by Umar ibn al Khattab (you can check that out here: www.e-dinar.com).

The list could go and and on but these people are committed, friendly, welcoming, hard working, true to religion. Their practice of Islam does not limit itself to learning special dua' and making extra prayers - they are out there to establish the very structures of a Muslim society.

As for people not having heard of them - they have sat with the former prime minister of Turkey, Erkaban, and with Mahathir of Malaysia, and others too. I don't think your ungenerous comments will bother them too much.

celt islam
16-09-2008, 09:19 AM
What's the murabit movement?

The Murabitun

The Murabitun is a worldwide Islamic movement founded by Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi, with communities in around 20 different countries............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murabitun

Owen
16-09-2008, 10:54 AM
They are a minor sect that are more active on the internet than their size should allow.

They have deviant fiqh and their tariqat is baatil.

They are so small that if you speak to any scholars who don't waste time on the internet its most likely they will never have heard of these fellows.
Your posts are all like this. Are you a complete pessimist when it comes to other Muslims?

anhero
16-09-2008, 11:09 AM
Perhaps I am.

You would be too if you had travelled.




As for people not having heard of them - they have sat with the former prime minister of Turkey, Erkaban, and with Mahathir of Malaysia, and others too. I don't think your ungenerous comments will bother them too much.

Ah yes... Malaysia. I seem to remember the little murabitun failed 'experiment' they carried out on the Malaysian economy. Suffice it to say they were lucky not to have completely screwed up the economy. You will no doubt disagree, but Malaysia is still using paper money, not dinars.

/thread

laughinglion
16-09-2008, 11:18 AM
What's the murabit movement?

:salam:

The proof is in the people, so seek them out.

peaace

Ibn Nikolay
16-09-2008, 10:26 PM
May Allah Ta'ala protect our Shaykh Abdal-Qadir...

Dhul-Qarnayn
17-09-2008, 07:16 AM
They have deviant fiqh and their tariqat is baatil.How so, if you don't mind me asking? They aren't just Malikis?

And what went wrong with their attempts to institute the gold/silver dinars? And why do other Muslims oppose them for this?

celt islam
17-09-2008, 10:14 AM
How so, if you don't mind me asking? They aren't just Malikis?

And what went wrong with their attempts to institute the gold/silver dinars? And why do other Muslims oppose them for this?




Asalaamualaykum.

Interesting how the conversation and topic got hijacked yet again and during the holy month of Ramadhan, its a real shame people have to reduce themselves openly on the web, May ALLAH protect us from the evils of the web ameen.

Economy effects us all hence why usury comes with a huge command against its practice.

Abu Bakr ibn Abi Maryam reported that he heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say: "A time is certainly coming over mankind in which there will be nothing [left] which will be of use save a dinar and a dirham." (The Musnad of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal)

laughinglion
17-09-2008, 10:51 AM
How so, if you don't mind me asking? They aren't just Malikis?

And what went wrong with their attempts to institute the gold/silver dinars? And why do other Muslims oppose them for this?

:salam:

You are correct in pointing out that we are not just Malikis, but have members/fuqara of the Ahnaf and the Shafi`iyya.

Our fiqh is sound, if not among the soundest, but a little misunderstood by those who have a regressionist mindset, and reduce the revelation to a strictly historical event, whose Islam has not been manifest for a hundred plus years except in books.

Our tariqa, the Shadhdhili-Darqawi, again is among the soundest and most essential in these times. Again this will not be recognised by those who favour a prescriptive Islam and prefer hearsay to getting out and meeting people.

The gold/silver dinars/dirhams work is progressing despite the opposition of the Muslims who have such a deep psychological attachment and trust (Iman) in the present usurious system that any suggestion of change, seen as a threat to their comfortable secular 'existences', provokes hostile reaction dressed in some pseudo intellectual garb. Then there are those who cannot imagine a life other than what is before their eyes....

with peace

jinnzaman
17-09-2008, 10:56 PM
The problem with their attempts to institute the gold/silver dinar is two fold:

Firstly, the fuqaha of today and the past have stated the permissibility of using paper money based on the principle of necessity. While the utilization of bimetallic currency is praiseworthy as being a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) and the Sahabah (radhi allahu anhum), it doesn't necessarily follow that its absolutely incumbent upon the Ummah to follow. Thus, our Murabitun brethren differ in this ruling from the vasty majority of the fuqaha of our day and age. The important thing to note is that this is a matter of ijtehad since the current global economy is something that is absolutely different from the previous world-system of trade. In the previous system, Muslims also didn't rely solely on bimetallic currency, but used other mediums of exchange such as raw goods (slaves, pearls, other commodities). While it is true that paper money isn't technically backed by anything other then the good word of certain powerful governments, the same can be said of most commodities whose intrinsic value is derived from the labor used to extract or manufacture them or from futures speculation.

Secondly, I think the biggest problem with the Murabitun bimetallic currency is its failure to realize that the market today cannot sustain it. Their is simply not enough gold/silver in the world to enable the full functioning of the market. This isn't a theoretical problem, but a real one. I've seen some academics argue that one of the factors in the downfall of the Ottoman Empire was its shortage of gold/silver right when Europe had discovered the New World. The shortage of gold/silver affected the value of the Ottoman currency and in order to make up for this devaluation, they increased taxes. Since the Muslim world's economy was already crumbling due to the shortage of bullion, the increased enforcement of taxes lead to widespread political distrubances within the country that originally took the form of sectarian revolts, but culminated in Janissary and 'Ulema revolts (the former revolting because they had not been paid). These political disturbances arrested Ottoman expansion right when when Europe was expanding into the New World. The Ottomans were planning on sending expeditions into the New World to fight the Portuguese and were also planning an invasion of Spain to counter the Reconquista, but these political disturbances prevented them from doing so. By the time the Ottoman Empire had recovered, Europe was firmly entrenched in colonialism and was able to attain new revenue streams, enabling them to develop various industries, corresponding economic growth, and subsequent scientific and technological development. Thus, a decent argument can be made that one of the major contributing factors of the downfall of the Ottoman Empire was its economic system and one of the essential components of that system was its currency system which was simply not sustainable. If anyone is interested in this topic, I have a list of authors that you can check out. Off the top of my head, see the works of Pomeranz, Goldstone, and even Imam Zaid Shakir.

Finally, on an unrelated note, Murabitun has a tendency to engage in conspiracy theories, like a Jewish Freemason conspiracy and world bank systems, which is really just a load of hogwash. If you research the history of world banking, a lot of this is just dumb.

marco100
17-09-2008, 11:05 PM
World banking is not dumb, it makes sense. The fiat currency is a conspiracy of enormous magnitude, where money is made out of thin air as passed off as real! Have you lost your mind my good man?? :D

celt islam
17-09-2008, 11:38 PM
The problem with their attempts to institute the gold/silver dinar is two fold:

Firstly, the fuqaha of today and the past have stated the permissibility of using paper money based on the principle of necessity. While the utilization of bimetallic currency is praiseworthy as being a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) and the Sahabah (radhi allahu anhum), it doesn't necessarily follow that its absolutely incumbent upon the Ummah to follow. Thus, our Murabitun brethren differ in this ruling from the vasty majority of the fuqaha of our day and age. The important thing to note is that this is a matter of ijtehad since the current global economy is something that is absolutely different from the previous world-system of trade. In the previous system, Muslims also didn't rely solely on bimetallic currency, but used other mediums of exchange such as raw goods (slaves, pearls, other commodities). While it is true that paper money isn't technically backed by anything other then the good word of certain powerful governments, the same can be said of most commodities whose intrinsic value is derived from the labor used to extract or manufacture them or from futures speculation.

Secondly, I think the biggest problem with the Murabitun bimetallic currency is its failure to realize that the market today cannot sustain it. Their is simply not enough gold/silver in the world to enable the full functioning of the market. This isn't a theoretical problem, but a real one. I've seen some academics argue that one of the factors in the downfall of the Ottoman Empire was its shortage of gold/silver right when Europe had discovered the New World. The shortage of gold/silver affected the value of the Ottoman currency and in order to make up for this devaluation, they increased taxes. Since the Muslim world's economy was already crumbling due to the shortage of bullion, the increased enforcement of taxes lead to widespread political distrubances within the country that originally took the form of sectarian revolts, but culminated in Janissary and 'Ulema revolts (the former revolting because they had not been paid). These political disturbances arrested Ottoman expansion right when when Europe was expanding into the New World. The Ottomans were planning on sending expeditions into the New World to fight the Portuguese and were also planning an invasion of Spain to counter the Reconquista, but these political disturbances prevented them from doing so. By the time the Ottoman Empire had recovered, Europe was firmly entrenched in colonialism and was able to attain new revenue streams, enabling them to develop various industries, corresponding economic growth, and subsequent scientific and technological development. Thus, a decent argument can be made that one of the major contributing factors of the downfall of the Ottoman Empire was its economic system and one of the essential components of that system was its currency system which was simply not sustainable. If anyone is interested in this topic, I have a list of authors that you can check out. Off the top of my head, see the works of Pomeranz, Goldstone, and even Imam Zaid Shakir.

Finally, on an unrelated note, Murabitun has a tendency to engage in conspiracy theories, like a Jewish Freemason conspiracy and world bank systems, which is really just a load of hogwash. If you research the history of world banking, a lot of this is just dumb.


Asalaamualaykum.

If only it was just an issue of just Gold and Silver, the whole issue of Riba [ Usury] is much much more banking and interest being among them.

The ulama today differ so much among each other that i do beg the queston what and who's ulama?do you refer too? please remember and remind youself that not all muslims follow the same ulama , are you suggesting that one group of ulama is superior to another?hummm?

With Respect sidi i suggest you read the book Esoteric Deviation in Islam by Umar vadillio , it sure does give some interesting facts about the whole banking elites and their allies.

Email me on facebook you wil find me as Celt Islam, add me and i will gladly send you a pdf version of the book.

Ramadhaan Kareem, ma salaama

jinnzaman
18-09-2008, 06:27 AM
[/SIZE]


Asalaamualaykum.

If only it was just an issue of just Gold and Silver, the whole issue of Riba [ Usury] is much much more banking and interest being among them.

The ulama today differ so much among each other that i do beg the queston what and who's ulama?do you refer too? please remember and remind youself that not all muslims follow the same ulama , are you suggesting that one group of ulama is superior to another?hummm?

With Respect sidi i suggest you read the book Esoteric Deviation in Islam by Umar vadillio , it sure does give some interesting facts about the whole banking elites and their allies.

Email me on facebook you wil find me as Celt Islam, add me and i will gladly send you a pdf version of the book.

Ramadhaan Kareem, ma salaama

Wa alaikum assalam

Oh no, I totally agree with their prohibition on interest, but this is universally condemned with the exception of a few modernist scholars. However, I don't see the point of the stubbornness in adhering to a particular juristic opinion that other 'Ulema have issued fatwa on. Also, I don't see the point of the masonic conspiracy thing because masonry or judaism had little to do with the current banking system anymore than Islam is a conspiracy of terrorists. I don't understand why this sort of rubbish should enter into a historical narrative, let alone an economic program or jurisprudence. The system is corrupt because it conflicts with Islam. What does freemasonry have to do with anything?


Okey dokey. Btw, we're already friends on facebook. My handle is jinnzaman. Send me the book if you can, inshaAllah.

masalama

celt islam
18-09-2008, 09:35 AM
Wa alaikum assalam

Oh no, I totally agree with their prohibition on interest, but this is universally condemned with the exception of a few modernist scholars. However, I don't see the point of the stubbornness in adhering to a particular juristic opinion that other 'Ulema have issued fatwa on. Also, I don't see the point of the masonic conspiracy thing because masonry or judaism had little to do with the current banking system anymore than Islam is a conspiracy of terrorists. I don't understand why this sort of rubbish should enter into a historical narrative, let alone an economic program or jurisprudence. The system is corrupt because it conflicts with Islam. What does freemasonry have to do with anything?


Okey dokey. Btw, we're already friends on facebook. My handle is jinnzaman. Send me the book if you can, inshaAllah.

masalama


Asalaamualaykum Sidi.

This is why you need to read the book by Sidi Umar pasha because it throws some light on so called conspiracy theories and and rejects the notion of the conspiracy theory.

Plus i didnt even mention Freemasons , you did! lol, you see when you look as an outsider and dont have a real connection with anyone from the Murabitun you end up making the mistake that the murabitun are into all that Conspiracy theory jargon when in fact the Shaykh and the Murabitun totally reject conspiracy theories period.

Never the less the facts are clear , that a small group of people are in control of the worlds wealth all based on usury and blatent theift of people wealth.

Paper money is a darura but this darura like pork never becomes halal so to speak it ust becomes a necessity to eat it in order to survive .
We can only eat pork out of necessity it never becomes halal thats the whole point the murabitun is making, if one cannot find food except Pigs then we eat the pig according to necessity out of survival same with the use of paper money.

The whole world is now run on Riba and its our duty as muslims to make a change to this haram situation we are all in, by opening banks and calling them halal doesnt change the fact that banking itself is haraam, we all have to use banks and bank notes this is logic now but the fight against riba never stops, in fact ALLAH and his messenger have declared war on Usury and that is a sign for those who reflect on the whole topic.

We as muslims can change the system and ALLAH has given us the deen to do this, but i guess some people may think that the deen cannot be established until the Mahdi comes which is a total cop out and lets the bankers and politicans carry on controling the world with a lie.

Everything ALLAh has decreed halal can be established and the dinar wa dirham is the halal currency of the ummah and this can and will be done by those who are commited to the fight against the global usurious system.

And when the wizards came,

Moses said to them: Cast your cast.

And when they cast, Moses said:

That which you have brought is magic. Surely Allah will make it vain.

Surely Allah does not uphold the work of mischief makers.

And Allah will vindicate the Truth

by His words, however much the guilty are averse.

QUR'AN : Sura Yunus Ayats 80-82

IbnShafiq
18-09-2008, 09:47 AM
:salam: sidi Celt

I was just wondering how would you deal with the fact that there isnt much gold and silver left in the world? Also what are your thoughts about what brother Jinnzaman mentioned about the Ottoman fail from power? Are these topics discussed in the book that you mentioned?

:ws:

celt islam
18-09-2008, 10:02 AM
:salam: sidi Celt

I was just wondering how would you deal with the fact that there isnt much gold and silver left in the world? Also what are your thoughts about what brother Jinnzaman mentioned about the Ottoman fail from power? Are these topics discussed in the book that you mentioned?

:ws:

Asalaamualaykum.

Yes i hear what you are saying and this is the trick of kufr unfortunatly.

There is more than enough gold and silver to go around plus falus doesnt have to be gold or silver.

As for the ottomans well the book by Umar pasha explains its all in fine details on how the ottomans were destroyed .

Gold and silver is real money , paper and digital figures on a computer screen are nothing but a form of magic and a serious deviation from what ALLAh and his messenger [saw] have instructed us to do when dealing with halal trade.

I also suggest you read this artical by Umar pasha about paper money, it will shed light on a few things.

Paper Money: A Legal Judgment
by Umar Ibrahim Vadillo


http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/content/articles/Art029_04112004.html

IbnShafiq
18-09-2008, 10:07 AM
:ws:

:jazak:

for the quick reply. Is the there any way I can get a pdf of the book with using facebook.

celt islam
18-09-2008, 10:10 AM
:ws:

:jazak:

for the quick reply. Is the there any way I can get a pdf of the book with using facebook.

Asalaamualaykum.

Add me on facebook , look for Celt Islam and email me and i will send you a copy no problemos :thumbsup:

IbnShafiq
18-09-2008, 10:13 AM
Asalaamualaykum.

Add me on facebook , look for Celt Islam and email me and i will send you a copy no problemos :thumbsup:

sorry sidi i meant to type without using facebook:$

abuhajira
18-09-2008, 10:13 AM
:salam: celt..

You have been having a wonder ful time posting for last 5-6 days on the same old topics.. ..

Just a reminded.. As soon as the thread goes into "paper currency", "dinar/dirham debate". "muratibun debate"... or any other topic which has been extensively dealt before.. The thread will be closed.

It is discussed sufficiently .. and all these qiyaases of pigs and mahdi etc have been dealt at length.

Those new brothers who are new into it, please search and read the detailed conversations on the topic.

Since this thread HAS gone into that mode already.. It will be closed.

:ws: