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Hamood
16-10-2008, 01:29 PM
assalamu 'alaykum,

This fatwa (signed by three giant scholars of modern times: Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Abdurrauf Sakkharwi and Mufti Mahmud Ashraf Usmani) was posted in a separate thread, the title of which is rather distasteful in my worthless opinion, hence I am re-posting it here as a new thread.

wassalam

The Urdu:

http://www.ashrafiya.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/page_062.jpg

The translation (unofficial):


Image taken from http://www.ashrafiya.com/

An on the on-the-fly translation for those who do not know Urdu:


Question:

On August 20, 2008 a fatwa appeared in several newspapers including the Jang newspaper declaring the prevalent Islamic banking system as impermissible, what do the scholars ('ulama) say in regards to it?

(Muhammad Ilyas Kachi)

Answer:

The fatwa declaring Islamic banking impermissible, which was published in several newspapers, does not mention proofs (dala'il) nor has a separate writing containing proofs appeared. In addition to this, even though the responsible individuals from Jamia Darul 'Ulum Karachi have requested those proofs upon which the fatwa was based and [subsequently] issued, they (i.e., the proofs) have not been provided to them. According to our knowledge, those who have given the fatwa of impermissibility have also not inquired about the full and detailed way from responsible individuals at Islamic banks and their existing Shari'a advisors.

For this reason, at present, Jamia Darul 'Ulum Karachi remains firm upon its previous fatwa. It is permissible to perform financial transactions with banks which are not based on interest that are working under the supervision of authentic scholars while keeping with the principles of the Shari'a. The profit earned from such transactions is halal (lawful) and it is not interest or [I]haram (unlawful).

And Allah Most High knows best.

[The Eminent Muftis]

Mufti Taqi Usmani
Mufti Afzal Ali Rabbani
Mufti Abdurrauf Sakkharwi
Mufti Mahmud Ashraf Usmani
Mufti Muhammad Abdul Mannan

[Signed 14th (and 15th) of Ramadan, 1429 AH corresponding to September 14, 2008]

QuestforthePath
16-10-2008, 01:48 PM
:jazak: brother Hamood for posting it separately as a lot of folks might not be following that thread.

SunniWaqas
16-10-2008, 02:57 PM
:salam:

Another Fatwa has been made available. This was posted in the other thread but I am posting it here as well:

http://www.darsequran.com/articles/urdu/art_htmls/islamibanking.php

The questioner has asked some really valid questions. An English translation of this one too would be highly useful for the non-Urdu speaking people here.

Wassalaam

QuestforthePath
17-10-2008, 04:12 AM
:salam:
:jazak: brother SunniWaqas for pointing out this link. It really answered a lot of my questions (a lot of details are still hidden though).
Indeed the questions asked are very valid and I couldn't agree more that a translation will help the non-Urdu speaking people.
:alhamd: I have done a translation of the fatwa.

Disclaimer: Its a completely unofficial and amateur translation so please read at your own risk.
I would request the learned brothers/sisters here to please correct any mistakes.

Answer to a question regarding Islamic Banking
Question: Mufti sahib, in todayís newspaper (August 29, 2008) there is a fatwa by a number of eminent scholars that states that the current Islamic banking implemented in the country is unallowed. And the names of the scholars endorsing the fatwa has been given but I didnít see the name of Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani. In my knowledge it is because of Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmaniís efforts and hard work that there is a light of Islamic banking in the darkness and hopelessness of riba for muslims around the world. And the ummah got the facility of Islamic banking instead of the riba system and riba (on which Allah has declared war) implemented by non-muslims and enemies of Islam. But now this fatwa has created difficulty for the public to judge who is right and who is wrong. The ummah is specially uneducated about the Islamic rulings regarding the economic system. Therefore a few questions for you with the expectation that your answers will not only benefit me but the whole muslim ummah and the muslim ummah will properly understand the solution to these issues.

1) Did the eminent muftis participating in the meeting (the muftis who gave the fatwa) ask Maulana Muhammad Taqi Usmani about his opinion on the Islamic banking system currently established in the country?
2) What is Maulana Muhammad Taqi Usmaniís opinion regarding this fatwa?
3) There are countless publications by Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani, that are commonly available regarding Islamic banking in which he has convinced for the first time that it is possible to implement Islamic banking in the current era. And after that we saw that with his consultation Islamic banking started and also banks from various countries established the Islamic banking system. Did the muftis present in this conference research the explanations and details of establishing Islamic banking according to Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmaniís literature?
4) Is the information in these books (Mufti Taqi Usmaniís literature on Islamic banking system) incorrect? Or the Islamic banking system was not able to be established according to the rules and regulations in these books?
5) a) Should the people conclude that it is impossible to establish Islamic banking in the current era b) Or the eminent muftis present in the meeting proposed an alternate solution?
6) In the current era, it is almost impossible for everyone to avoid the banks e.g. the salary comes in your bank account, business transactions have to go through the banking system, and even bill payment is done through the banks. After the implementation of Islamic banking these transactions were taking place through Islamic banks but what should people do after this fatwa?
7) In the current law and order situation, with thefts and robberies being so common, is it advisable to keep your money at home?
8) In my opinion the most important issue in this context is that not only has Allah cursed and declared war against riba but Allah also declared war against those people who look down upon His pious people. A large number of people who are unaware of Islamic rulings commonly complain ďif there is disagreement amongst ulema about everything in the deen then what is right?Ē This will give them yet another chance to complain. Now as there is disagreement and disunity because of this fatwa amongst the ulema, the same will happen amongst their followers. The Aalims and Muftis wonít disrespect each other because of their knowledge, but the common people wonít stay away from this due to their lack of knowledge. And doing so they will make themselves worthy of Allahís curse. What is the solution to this?
9) Is it not possible that the ulema present at the meeting, and Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani sahib inform each other of their opinions and decide unanimously. And if this (the current Islamic banking system) is in fact not right then propose an alternate solution that can be implemented.
10) What is correct Islamic banking or Islamic economic system? How and where can we get this information? And how can we inform the general public?
I understand that asking so many questions is against the rules of getting a fatwa, but due to the sensitivity of this issue I am asking them. Because not only I but all muslims are asking these questions. It is my wish that I get the virtue of this deed and Allah accepts me in the jihad against riba. It is my sincere request that without disregarding any of my questions let the ummah take benefit from your answers. May Allah give you JazayKhair. (Muhammad Abid, Clifton Karachi)
Answer
Your letter was received. May Allah accept your religious fervor, Ameen. Brief answers to your questions are as follows:
1) No. These respected people did not invite Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani to participate in their meetings. In our knowledge Mufti Taqi Usmani was invited to only one meeting and a document against him was read to him, but when Mufti Taqi saheb requested to explain his opinion he was not given the permission to do so and immediately the meeting was ended with a dua.
2) The opinion of Hazrat Mufti Taqi Usmani saheb and DaruIftaa of Jamia Darululoom Karachi is the same as in the attached fatwa, that was released on 14th Ramadan 1429H.
3) We donít have any knowledge of this
4) This can only be answered by the people who issued the aforementioned fatwa.
5) a) The establishment of Islamic banking is possible without a doubt. And not only is it being implemented practically all over the world, there is full effort in taking care of the practical issues and/or potential issues in establishing it. In this regard the suggestions of muftis and ulema are most welcome.
b) The respected people who consider this Islamic banking system as unallowed have written some details in the start of their very brief document, the summar y of which is that there is no need to propose an alternative to the currently established system
6) The truth is that a muslim should follow any aalim whose fatwa he trusts and sincerely believes that the aalim is capable of giving an authentic fatwa which is not based on ignorance or self interest.
7) It is a personís legal right to protect his halal wealth. If it is not possible to protect it at home then it is permissible to keep it in riba-free banks. And if there are no riba-free banks in some place then it is permissible to keep the money in current accounts of commercial banks.
8) Not only the ulema but common people and especially religious people should take all steps to respect each other despite the differences in opinion. It is a fard on every muslim to abstain from disrespecting each other and disagreement for the sake of disagreement. In this sensitive time when the kufr is attacking Islam and is striving to destroy every rising muslim power, it is essential to keep differences to ourselves and to keep the muslims united.
9) In our knowledge Hazrat Maulana Taqi Usmani saheb not only asked these ulema for a joint meeting both verbally and in written, he repeatedly requested them. But his suggestion was not accepted.
10) Alhamdulillah the publications of authentic Islamic scholars on Islamic banking and Islamic economic system are easily available. In case of need DarulIftaa can be inquired about the names of these books.
And Allah Most High knows best.

[The Eminent Muftis]

Mufti Rafi Usmani
Mufti Abdurrauf Sakkharwi
Mufti Mahmud Ashraf Usmani
Mufti Muhammad Abdul Mannan


The Urdu version can be found at this link (http://www.darsequran.com/articles/urdu/art_htmls/islamibanking.php)


:ws:

mospike
17-10-2008, 06:21 AM
The Majlisul Ulama of PE jumped the gun and there entire October paper is full of praise for the so called 'retraction' by Mufti Taqi, this thread proves mufti Taqi is still standing with his previous view and so other the other eminent Mufti's on the list

sohailidress
28-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Asalm-o-Alik

As per my opinion this is only the fighting between two groups People (ulma) who are givning fatwa against Islamic Banking might they are not able to get money how the group of particular ulma is getting.

Please keep in mind Mufti Taqi Usmani start his banking carrier as adviser of Saudi Bank and now running his own bank. How could he be against "Islamic" Banking?

I am having car on bank (regular bank) finance and do realize I am paying interest (sood or ribah). It is much better than I had finance from "Islamic" banking and would think this is Islamic. Until you would not realize that you are doing wrong how could you be safe?

I would say please avoid by major sins which we are aware and all common Ulma are agreed.

Khoda wand ya tara sadah dil panday kidhar jain
kah darwadhi bhe eyaree aur sultani bhye eyaree

If I am on mistaken May Allah give me Hidyath

ENIGMA
28-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Mufti Taqi Sahib running his own bank?

first ive heard of it.

gabriel
28-07-2009, 08:40 PM
Mufti Taqi Sahib running his own bank?

first ive heard of it.

Same here! any details? would love to put some of my money into that.

omar2006
28-07-2009, 09:03 PM
http://www.ashrafiya.com/2008/12/02/islamic-banking-2/

links to a lecture in which the respected Mufti saheb defends his position.

SunniWaqas
28-07-2009, 10:10 PM
Asalm-o-Alik

As per my opinion this is only the fighting between two groups People (ulma) who are givning fatwa against Islamic Banking might they are not able to get money how the group of particular ulma is getting.

Please keep in mind Mufti Taqi Usmani start his banking carrier as adviser of Saudi Bank and now running his own bank. How could he be against "Islamic" Banking?

I am having car on bank (regular bank) finance and do realize I am paying interest (sood or ribah). It is much better than I had finance from "Islamic" banking and would think this is Islamic. Until you would not realize that you are doing wrong how could you be safe?

I would say please avoid by major sins which we are aware and all common Ulma are agreed.

Khoda wand ya tara sadah dil panday kidhar jain
kah darwadhi bhe eyaree aur sultani bhye eyaree

If I am on mistaken May Allah give me Hidyath

Walaikum Assalam,

I'm sorry brother but what you're doing is *not* better than a person who has a car or a house through Islamic financing. The reason is that buying a car or house, for example, from a regular bank is definitely Haram without any difference of opinion at all amongst the authentic scholars of Islam.

On the other hand, when it comes to Islamic financing, there definitely are 'Ulama who support it and have declared it permissible. Amongst others, the eminent Muftis named in this thread, are included in this list. At best, it could be said there's a valid difference of opinion on this issue in which case you follow whoever you trust more of the two.

Anyways, that's about it from me on this thread :)

Wassalaam

Ma'ruf
28-07-2009, 11:01 PM
In law school we had a lecturer who always mentioned the "fish test". Meaning, whatever particular case we were studying, we should "smell" it in the way that we would a fish to see if it was rotten or not. The first impression was usually correct.

So take a whiff of this whole enteprise. People are going to put money in a bank and make profit without risk - what does that smell like? People are going to take loans (or sorry, engage in a series of contracts), in which they will eventually pay more than the principal - what does that smell like?

Islamic banking is not going to save anyone from riba... it will merely ensure that people in Muslim societies will become indebted to banks in the same way as everyone else. It really doesn't matter how you rig up the contract or what jargon is employed. What is the purpose of the bank? It is to make money out of money. Banks are successful because they have injected themselves into every transaction in society. Practically all businesses rely on usurious loans from the moment of their creation. This means that the price of all goods and services contains the cost of the riba. Something like a third or more of the price of goods and services is to pay for riba. The banks have essentially put themselves in a position where they skim off the top of every transaction in society. Naturally, everyone else suffers.

And once the riba is institutionalised, it's virtually impossible to fight. Imagine I start a business, and another person starts a competing business in the same sector at the same time. I have saved money for years, whereas my rival mostly relies on cheap credit from the bank. Well, who is going to be more successful? I am limited by reality. My limited capital restricts my ability to produce. My rival, on the other hand, has not only his capital but loans from the bank. So who is going to be able to offer lower prices? Who will be able to expand production and buy better advertising? How can I compete against him in the short term? Naturally, I can't. I will go out of business long before he does. But after that happens, he still has the problem of riba. His prices will have to include the interest on his loans. In effect, he does not own his own business; he is managing it on behalf of the bank. Now take a step back from this little example and realise that this is what has happened throughout the entirety of society. Have the advocates of "islamic banking" any awareness or comment on this?

Why on earth are people so excited about Islamic banking? We should be looking for a society without banks, not dressing up a wolf in a sheep skin and patting ourselves on the back.

Ma'ruf
28-07-2009, 11:12 PM
7) It is a personís legal right to protect his halal wealth. If it is not possible to protect it at home then it is permissible to keep it in riba-free banks. And if there are no riba-free banks in some place then it is permissible to keep the money in current accounts of commercial banks.

This doesn't make sense. The risk of theft is not a justification for riba! In any case, the value of one's wealth in fiat currency is not protected at all. In fact, it is constantly losing value via inflation. That does not validate riba, either. Why doesn't the Mufti point out that there are perfectly good, halal, uncontroversial ways to store value, ie commodities? I don't understand why people should be advised to deposit their money with usurious institutions when they can avoid the whole mess by putting some silver or gold in a secure vault. It is not difficult. This is deeply disturbing...

Abu_Bilal
29-07-2009, 04:48 AM
Asalm-o-Alik

Please keep in mind Mufti Taqi Usmani start his banking carrier as adviser of Saudi Bank and now running his own bank. How could he be against "Islamic" Banking?

Walikum-us-salam.

What a BIG LIE and BIG accusation on a true saint?

Mufti Taqi Usmani has NO personal bank. He is advisor to three banks in Pakistan namely Meezan Bank, Bank Islami and Khaybar Bank. He only reviews the instructions given by the shariah board. He does not has even a personal account in any of these banks.

People like you should bring some evidence when you accuse. Otherwise HOLD your tongue.

Astaghfirullah, it is shocking to read some posts over here man.