Smilie Ruling from AskImam

[shatibi]

http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=9016456ed766d5857a9c0cab045d1e99

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh

There are numerous authentic narrations that prove the impermissibility of pictures of animate objects. In fact, due to the vast amount of Ahadith, scholars mention that it has reached the level of tawatur ma’nawi. Furthermore, the Ahadith in this regard are mutlaq (general).

Based on above, our illustrious Fuqaha have ruled that ALL types of pictures are haraam; irrespective whether they are small or big. Thus, one should refrain from using all type smilies.

As for a colon and parenthesis, it does not fall under the same category of tasweer. Hence, a person may opt for this as an alternative to express his emotions.



حاشية ابن عابدين - (ج 1 / ص 647 دار الفكر للطباعة والنشر)

قلت لكن مراد الخلاصة اللبس المصرح به في المتون بدليل قوله في الخلاصة بعد ما مر أما إذا كان في يده وهو يصلي لا يكره وكلام النووي في فعل التصوير ولا يلزم من حرمته حرمة الصلاة فيه بدليل أن التصوير يحرم ولو كانت الصورة صغيرة كالتي على الدرهم أو كانت في اليد أو مستترة أو مهانة مع أن الصلاة بذلك لا تحرم بل ولا تكره لأن علة حرمة التصوير المضاهاة لخلق الله تعالى وهي موجودة في كل ما ذكره



حاشية ابن عابدين - (ج 1 / ص 648 دار الفكر للطباعة والنشر.)

قوله ( أو مقطوعة الرأس ) أي سواء كان من الأصل أو كان لها رأس ومحي وسواء كان القطع بخيط خيط على جميع الرأس حتى لم يبق له أثر أو يطليه بمغرة أو بنحته أو بغسله لأنها لا تعبد بدون الرأس عادة وأما قطع الرأس عن الجسد بخيط مع بقاء الرأس على حاله فلا ينفي الكراهة لأن من الطيور ما هو مطوق فلا يتحقق القطع بذلك وقيد بالرأس لأنه لا اعتبار بإزالة الحاجبين أو العينين لأنها تعبد بدونها وكذا لا اعتبار بقطع اليدين



فيض الباري شرح صحيح البخاري - (ج 2 / ص 133)

وله: (أو تصاوير) عطف على المعنى. كما في «المغني»، أن العطف قد يكون على اللفظ، وقد يكون على المعنى، وقد يكون على التوهم.

واعلم أن هناك ثلاث مسائل: الأولى: فعل التصوير، وهو حرامٌ، صغيرًا كان أو كبيرًا.)

والثانية: حكم التصاوير في الصلاة. وحاصل ما في المتون: أن لا بأس بالمُمتَهن والصغيرة جدًا، بحيث لا تبدو للناظر وإلا كرهت.

والثالثة: لُبْس الثوب المصور.

وراجع التفصيل من «الفتح» لابن الهُمَام من مكروهات الصلاة، و «الموطأ» لمحمد بن الحسن.



امداد الاخكام- (ج 1 / ص 372 دار العلوم كراچي)



And Allah knows best

Wassalam

Ml. Ismail Moosa,
Student Darul Iftaa

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah

[Peacenik]

Salaam, Brother.

Therefore, isn't the onus on the Moderators (to 'rid of' the smilies) ?

[bugmenot]

:salam:
I recall a fatwa speaking about less than a thumb size picture being allowed...

[Peacenik]

:salam:
I recall a fatwa speaking about less than a thumb size picture being allowed...

Walaikum-a-Salaam

I would have thought the decision to prohibit 'smilies', would be regardless of the size of the image ?

[marco100]

Interesting topic. I'm sure the scholars here did their research on this before allowing smilies.

[mujahid7ia]

:salam:
I recall a fatwa speaking about less than a thumb size picture being allowed...

I also remember this one, and for some reason I also remember it coming from askimam (or maybe when it was islam.tc)

[source1984]

Whaaat? Smilies? Really?

this guy is harmless --> :cry:

[andy8118]

:Salam:

Sorry to be blunt, but didn't anyone actually read the fatwa?


http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=9016456ed766d5857a9c0cab045d1e99

As for a colon and parenthesis, it does not fall under the same category of tasweer. Hence, a person may opt for this as an alternative to express his emotions.


:ws:

[shatibi]

:salam:

Sorry to be blunt, but didn't anyone actually read the fatwa?



:ws:

:ws:

What do you mean?

According to the fatwa, smilies like : frown: are not allowed but those like: ) are.

:salam:

[shaimaa]

:Salam:

Sorry to be blunt, but didn't anyone actually read the fatwa?



:ws:

Yes but, most programmes or forum boards, when you type in the actual colon and parenthesis it converts it to a smiley face. Unless there is a feature that prevents it from converting it of course.

[andy8118]

Sorry i should have elaborated. The fact is i only enter a ":" then a ")" If i do this with my fone, what comes out is exactly that. If i write is out that's what comes out. So if you "draw" the picture then i can see the hurmat. but not the fact that a software produces an outcome of its own without my effort in doing so. Maybe people will try and come in with "you know what it will push out" but fact is, i didn't draw anything.

And abiding by the final word of the fatwa i used "a colon and parenthesis".

:ws:

[Bint_Mas'ud]

I was thinking about this recently! JazakAllah for sharing this with us. This forum actually has an option to disable smilies, so they could be left as colons and parentheses.

I'm glad we can use colons and parentheses because otherwise it's very easy to sound rude when communicating via internet or text-messaging. Smilies just make everything friendlier =)

[Intrepid]

Sorry i should have elaborated. The fact is i only enter a ":" then a ")" If i do this with my fone, what comes out is exactly that. If i write is out that's what comes out. So if you "draw" the picture then i can see the hurmat. but not the fact that a software produces an outcome of its own without my effort in doing so. Maybe people will try and come in with "you know what it will push out" but fact is, i didn't draw anything.

And abiding by the final word of the fatwa i used "a colon and parenthesis".

:ws:

Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but by your supposition taking a photo would be permissible? as technically your not drawing anything but clicking a button. If so, then I'd have to disagree as I've read many ahadith on the ills of pictures without mentioning anything about the process in which they were produced.

[andy8118]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but by your supposition taking a photo would be permissible? as technically your not drawing anything but clicking a button. If so, then I'd have to disagree as I've read many ahadith on the ills of pictures without mentioning anything about the process in which they were produced.

:salam:

Congrats on you hadith reading. First of all there is a difference of opinion regarding photos vs pictures that are drawn. That in itself is sufficient to quell the discussion.

So in light of the evidence differentiating between drawn-pictures and digital images, i stad by the said fatwa and use "a colon and parenthesis" (even if i hardly ever anyway.

:ws:

[Abd'al-Malik]

:salam:

Just a thought, but wouldn't Mufti Taqi saheb's fatwa on digitial images also include these anitmated smiliies?

[Intrepid]

:salam:

Congrats on you hadith reading. First of all there is a difference of opinion regarding photos vs pictures that are drawn. That in itself is sufficient to quell the discussion.

So in light of the evidence differentiating between drawn-pictures and digital images, i stad by the said fatwa and use "a colon and parenthesis" (even if i hardly ever anyway.

:ws:

I know it may suprise you that I can read and that Allah has given me my own intellect, but this is not a topic that I have merely derived from reading hadith alone. I know there is a difference of opinion and have read up on the subject matter but it still baffles me as to why there is. Anyways as far as the deobandi school of thought is concerned there is no difference of opinion its pretty much unanimous, whether digital or drawn, pictures are haraam. That includes the fatwa of Mufti Taqi Usmani, as Abd'al-Malik has stated.

[andy8118]

:salam:

Just a thought, but wouldn't Mufti Taqi saheb's fatwa on digitial images also include these anitmated smiliies?

Agreed...


The images appearing on live programs or recorded programs on television are not the pictures in the strict sense envisaged in the Ahadith of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, unless they are printed in a durable form on paper or on any other object....http://www.albalagh.net/qa/video_chips.shtml

I realise its more related to TVs and streaming images, however if you read it again, you'll see stills must also be inferred for them to be able to be converted as "printed in a durable form on paper or on any other object" as obviously moving images aren't done so.

And once again there is a valid scholarly difference of opinion going both ways on even the abovementioned.

:ws:

[Nawawi619]

I know it may suprise you that I can read and that Allah has given me my own intellect, but this is not a topic that I have merely derived from reading hadith alone. I know there is a difference of opinion and have read up on the subject matter but it still baffles me as to why there is. Anyways as far as the deobandi school of thought is concerned there is no difference of opinion its pretty much unanimous, whether digital or drawn, pictures are haraam. That includes the fatwa of Mufti Taqi Usmani, as Abd'al-Malik has stated.

As Salamu Alaykum


I think Sidi Andy has a point. There is a valid difference of opinion on the issues not only wiithin the four madhahib but amongst scholars in general. As you know the Deoband is not a school of thought but a (lack of a better term) "sub-group" of the Hanafi school.

Regardless of whether ikhtilaf on the issue "baffles" you or not, one should respect the differences of opinion of qualified scholars on the subject. It also may show that maybe all of us are not at the level of these scholars to understand why there is valid differences of opinion on the topic, and that if we want to really get down to the nitty gritty of why ulama have differed on this, one should specialize in the sacred sciences.

Until then, we should submit to the fact that there is differences and that with that being said, it cannot be considered a munkar to one who takes a opposing position than yours. If one holds to this fatwa and takes precaution to this issue, more power to him and success is with Allah. But for one to shove such position down others throats stating that it is the only way to see such issues than that is extreme partisanship to one's madhhab or minhaj.

We dont really need to get into the countless statement of classical ulama who have warned against overzealous attachment to a particular madhhab or minhaj to the point where one considers there way the only way. We also dont need to get into the countless of statements from classical ulama who have said to respect valid differences of opinions.

Islamic Sacred Law is not as rigid and narrow as some think it is.

Bayhaqi also relates in al-Madkhal and Zarkashi in the Tadhkira:

Al-Layth ibn Sa`d said on the authority of Yahya ibn Sa`id: "The people of knowledge are the people of flexibility (tawsi`a). Those who give fatwas never cease to differ, and so this one permits something while that one forbids it, without one finding fault with the other when he knows of his position."

Wa Llahu Alim

[Intrepid]

As Salamu Alaykum

As you know the Deoband is not a school of thought but a (lack of a better term) "sub-group" of the Hanafi school.

Wa Llahu Alim

Don't really want to get into a question of semantics, but agreed. Anyways I'm all for difference of opinion and respect anyone's view as along as they substantiate it with proof, even if it sits uncomfortably with me. But like I said according to deobandi Ulemah its pretty much unanimous & if you proclaim to follow this "sub-group" then I suggest you stick with their ruling and not pick and chose from other madhabs as to your nafz. Like I said I have no problems with people who take picture what they do is entirely their free will as long as it doesn't impinge my personal beliefs.

By the way if a paint a picture of a photo of an inanimate object would that make it permissible?

[andy8118]

...if you proclaim to follow this "sub-group" then I suggest you stick with their ruling and not pick and chose from other madhabs as to your nafz....
... By the way if a paint a picture of a photo of an inanimate object would that make it permissible?

I don't know who that's directed at but no nafs or whatever. As you can see we're Shafi :alhamd: and as for your/our sub-group my utmost respect goes to the Deobandi school, and as you can see i quoted from Mufti Taqi's fatwa.

And no to your second question - you are painting not 'capturing a shadow' etc.

:ws:

[Abd'al-Malik]

By the way if a paint a picture of a photo of an inanimate object would that make it permissible?

:salam:

Isn't it unanimous that pictures/photos of inanimate objects is fine? This is the first I've heard of someone questioning inanimate objects.

[shatibi]

:salam:

Regardless of whether Mufti Taqi Sahib says it is ok or not, the fact remains that a very large number of ulama would deem it impermissible. And that alone should be reason enough for one to stop using smilies, right?


:salam:

Isn't it unanimous that pictures/photos of inanimate objects is fine? This is the first I've heard of someone questioning inanimate objects.

Smilies are animate, they're just like drawing a face, except that these are yellow. In fact, these are more like animate objects, b/c they cry and roll their eyes, etc. just like humans. They aren't like drawing a tree.

:ws:

[Intrepid]

I don't know who that's directed at but no nafs or whatever. As you can see we're Shafi :alhamd: and as for your/our sub-group my utmost respect goes to the Deobandi school, and as you can see i quoted from Mufti Taqi's fatwa.

And no to your second question - you are painting not 'capturing a shadow' etc.

:ws:

Salaam bro I have the utmost respect for all four madhabs and if your scholars permit it then there is nothing wrong with that.

[shatibi]

:salam:

Which members here don't use smilies?

:ws:

[dhameera]

:salam:

Which members here don't use smilies?

:ws:

I don't, and I never have.

[confusedmuslim]

I don't, and I never have.

same here

[Intrepid]

:salam:

Which members here don't use smilies?

:ws:

neither do I besides even if I could, I wouldn't they're way to cheesy.

[dhameera]

neither do I besides even if I could, I wouldn't they're way to cheesy.

Lol@ being too cheesy, that's the primary reason why I don't use the smilies...reminds me of highschool kids trying to be "cool."

[Refunded]

i had always thought that although we might not be able to condemn someone for an act because their IS a difference of opinion regarding the act, we should also strive to avoid doing that act because there is obvious doubt over the act as evidenced by the scholars differing over the permissibility.

I had thought that regardless of whether or not scholars did differ on issues we should try and obstain from that which is doubtful and try to partake and enjoin that which there is most agreement on.

In a fatwa on sunnipath about the permissibility of clapping, sheikh faraz rabban says that in his view its permissible but scholars have differed over it so as such there is doubt and its best to avoid it.

wallahu ta3ala a3lam

[TripolySunni]

I will not ask why u people waste ur time with such nonesensical topics like this one while ur brothers and sisters are being Tortured, Raped and thier corpses mutilated. But many Illogical Fatwas are being released lately (Mickey Mouse, Breast Feeding Co-workers...), anyways We generally use them NOT as decorations or Objects of Worship and prayers BUt we use them as a means of communications (Although not nessessary in most cases) to show and convey certain emotions or reactions to things we read or reply to. I think we should only use them when nessessary only to help as a means of communication and not Stack our Texts with them from top to bottom like some of us do for fun.

[shatibi]

:salam:


i had always thought that although we might not be able to condemn someone for an act because their IS a difference of opinion regarding the act

No one is condemning anyone here. All we are discussing is that whether or not we should use similes or not. Mufti Ibrahim Desai says no, some others here say yes...


I will not ask why u people waste ur time with such nonesensical topics like this one while ur brothers and sisters are being Tortured, Raped and thier corpses mutilated. But many Illogical Fatwas are being released lately (Mickey Mouse, Breast Feeding Co-workers...), anyways We generally use them NOT as decorations or Objects of Worship and prayers BUt we use them as a means of communications (Although not nessessary in most cases) to show and convey certain emotions or reactions to things we read or reply to. I think we should only use them when nessessary only to help as a means of communication and not Stack our Texts with them from top to bottom like some of us do for fun.

This isn't a waste of time (though plenty of discussions here are a waste of time). This is a big issue since almost everyone uses smilies daily, while Mufti Ibrahim Desai has said: Our illustrious Fuqaha have ruled that ALL types of pictures are haraam; irrespective whether they are small or big. Thus, one should refrain from using all type smilies. And the fatwa is not illogical, despite how much you want disagree with it. It comes from a major Mufti of our times. And the fatwa is not about using smilies as decoration. In fact, it is mentioned that:
As for a colon and parenthesis, it does not fall under the same category of tasweer. Hence, a person may opt for this as an alternative to express his emotions.

It is surprising to see how Sunniforumers unanimously brushed off Mufti Ibrahim's fatwa without any discussion!

:ws:

[Abbe]

Our illustrious Fuqaha have ruled that ALL types of pictures are haraam; irrespective whether they are small or big. Thus, one should refrain from using all type smilies.
Salamu aleykum
I didn't read the whole thread, but did some of the scholars really say that smilies where haram, or were you assuming that because there is a general prohibition against taswir?

If there isn't a specific fatwa against smilies maybe someone could send a question to askimam.

[Intrepid]

:salam:


I will not ask why u people waste ur time with such nonesensical topics like this one while ur brothers and sisters are being Tortured, Raped and thier corpses mutilated. But many Illogical Fatwas are being released lately (Mickey Mouse, Breast Feeding Co-workers...), anyways We generally use them NOT as decorations or Objects of Worship and prayers BUt we use them as a means of communications (Although not nessessary in most cases) to show and convey certain emotions or reactions to things we read or reply to. I think we should only use them when nessessary only to help as a means of communication and not Stack our Texts with them from top to bottom like some of us do for fun.

This isn't a waste of time (though plenty of discussions here are a waste of time). This is a big issue since almost everyone uses smilies daily, while Mufti Ibrahim Desai has said: Our illustrious Fuqaha have ruled that ALL types of pictures are haraam; irrespective whether they are small or big. Thus, one should refrain from using all type smilies. And the fatwa is not illogical, despite how much you want disagree with it. It comes from a major Mufti of our times.

:ws:

Totally agree, this fatwah is far from irrelevant even though numerous conversations in here are.

[shatibi]

Salamu aleykum
I didn't read the whole thread, but did some of the scholars really say that smilies where haram, or were you assuming that because there is a general prohibition against taswir?

If there isn't a specific fatwa against smilies maybe someone could send a question to askimam.

http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=9016456ed766d5857a9c0cab045d1e99

[ma3nawiyya]

Bismillâh.
As-Salâmu 3alaykum wa ra7matullâhi.

Generally talking, what about this kind of images ?

http://www.geocities.com/P_piffet/ChatNoirCouche.jpg

http://www.mandellia.fr/upload_miniature/lion_ssz_00095_2.jpg

We know what is represented but as we can't see the face (eyes, mouth & so on...), is it ok with this ?

Barak Allâhu fikum.

Wa-s-Salâmu 3alaykum wa ra7matullâhi.

[shatibi]

Bismillâh.
As-Salâmu 3alaykum wa ra7matullâhi.

Generally talking, what about this kind of images ?

http://www.geocities.com/P_piffet/ChatNoirCouche.jpg

http://www.mandellia.fr/upload_miniature/lion_ssz_00095_2.jpg

We know what is represented but as we can't see the face (eyes, mouth & so on...), is it ok with this ?

Barak Allâhu fikum.

Wa-s-Salâmu 3alaykum wa ra7matullâhi.

:salam:

I think these are ok but it should be confirmed..

EDIT: See this from Darul Iftaa Deoband:

http://darulifta-deoband.org/viewfatwa.jsp?ID=2398

[shatibi]

:salam:

Other fataawa on pictures (though not specifically smilies):

AskImam:
http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=9be77e84852c1b689ee9732add2f2d07

Darul Iftaa Deoband:
http://darulifta-deoband.org/viewfatwa.jsp?ID=7322

MuftiSays:
http://muftisays.com/qa.php?viewpage=viewQA&highlight=%20picture&question=802

Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam:
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=9334&CATE=15

Wallahu a'lam