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AbuZayd
18-07-2004, 10:35 AM
Shaykh Rashid Ahmad Gangohi's Stance on the Najdis

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After reading your fatawa on the Salafis could you please answer the following question?

Was Maulana Rashid Ahmed Ghangohi a Wahabbi and what are your views on him? As he issued the following fatwa:


Question: Who are the Wahabis and what was the belief of Abdul Wahab al-Najdi? What was his madhab and what type of person was he? What is the difference in belief between the people of Najd and Sunni Hanafi?

Answer: The followers of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab are called "Wahabis" and they had good (umdah) beliefs and their school of thought was Hanbali. Although his attitude was very extravagant (shidatt) he and his followers were good people. But, yes, those who exceeded the limits were overcome by roguishness (fassad). And their basic belief are all united, the difference they have is in actions is (like that) of Shafi'i, Hanafi, Maaliki and Hanbali.




Question # q-18272411
Date Posted: 30/06/2004


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In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Shaykh Mawlana Rashid Ahmad al-Gangohi (Allah have mercy on him) was a great scholar of recent times in the Indian Subcontinent. He was a Muhaddith (scholar of Hadith), faqih (jurist), Mufassir (exegete), Sufi and a follower of the Hanafi School of Sunni Islamic law and the Matrudi Aqidah. He was an avid follower of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and immensely engrossed in his love (Allah bless him & give him peace).

He spent all his life studying, teaching and benefiting thousands of thirsty students of sacred knowledge. There was no one like him in his time in piety, knowledge, chastity and being steadfast on religion.

His teachers include Shaykh Mamluk al-Ali al-Nanotwi, Mufti Sadr al-Din al-Dehlawi, Shaykh Abd al-Ghani al-Dehlawi and others (Allah have mercy on them all). He took allegiance (bay’a) with the great Shaykh of Tasawwuf, Haji Imdad Allah al-Makki in the Chishtiyya spiritual order.

In the latter years of his life, he began teaching all the six books of Hadith (kutub al-Sittah) himself in one year with chains of transmission (isnad) going back to their authors. When he lost his eyesight, he stopped teaching and concentrated more on spiritually reforming his disciples (murids) in a manner that adhered to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah.

He students number many, who themselves went on to become great scholars of their time. Scholars such as: Shaykh Khalil Ahmad al-Saharanfuri (author of the renowned commentary of Sunan Abu Dawud in 20 volumes, Bazl al-Majhud), Shaykh al-Hind Mahmud Hasan, Shaykh Abd al-Rahim Raifuri, Shaykh Yahya al-Kandahlawi, Imam Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri (Allah have mercy on them all) and many others were privileged to have studied by him.

His works include: Imdad al-Suluk, Tasfiyat al-Qulub (both in the science of Tasawwuf), Zubdat al-Manasic (rules pertaining to the ritual of Hajj), Sabil al-Rashad and Hidayat al-Shi’a (in refutation of Shi’as). His Fatawa were collected and compiled in a book known as Fatawa Rashidiyya, regarding which you have also asked.

He passed away to the mercy of Allah on Friday after the Jumu’ah Adhan in 1323 A.H. May Allah Almighty sanctify his secret and shower him with mercy and His pleasure, Ameen. (See: al-I’lam bi man fi tarikh al-hind min al-A’lam, 3/1229, Dar Ibn Hazm, Beirut print)

The above clearly demonstrates that Shaykh Rashid Ahmad al-Gangohi was a great scholar of traditional Sunni Islam, follower of the Matrudi Aqidah and the Hanafi School of Islamic law. He was in no way a follower of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi and was not in any way from those who reject the four Schools of Sunni Islamic law and condone Taqlid.

As far as what you have quoted from his Fatawa regarding Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi, it is true indeed. He answers two questions with regards to him. Below is the translation of each of the two questions and their answers:

“Question: What kind of a person was (Muhammad ibn) Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi?”

“Answer: People call Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab a Wahhabi. He was a good person, and I have heard that he was a follower of the Hanbali School of Islamic law and acted upon the Hadith. He used to prevent people from Shirk and innovation (bid’a), but he was harsh (shadid) in his attitude.”

“Question: Who are the Wahhabis and what was the belief of Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi? What was his Madhhab and what type of person was he? What is the difference in belief between the people of Najd and Sunni Hanafis?”

“Answer: The followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab are called Wahhabis. They had good (umdah) beliefs and their school of thought was Hanbali. However, they were very stringent in their attitude but he and his followers were good people. But, yes, those who exceeded the limits were overcome by wrongness (fasad). And basic beliefs of everyone are united. The difference they have in actions is (like that) of Hanafi, Shafi’i, Maliki and Hanbali.” (Fatawa Rashidiyya, P. 241-242)

The above is what the respected Shaykh wrote about Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi and his followers. However, one must understand the background of the Shaykh’s statements.

The great Faqih of recent times in the Indian Subcontinent, Shaykh Mufti Mahmud al-Hasan al-Gangohi (Allah have mercy on him) who passed away in 1994 A.D, the grand Mufti of India whose Fatawa are gathered and compiled in 17 volumes discusses the reason behind Shaykh Rashid Ahmad (Allah have mercy on him) mentioning this in his Fatawa.

Note that, these two scholars are two different people and not related to one another, though they both have the same last name, namely Gangohi, which is an attribution to a village known as Gangoh in India. Shaykh Rashid Ahmad (Allah have mercy on him) was the great grand-teacher of the more recent Mufti Mahmud al-Hasan (Allah have mercy on him), hence the latter holds the former in great regard and respect. This humble writer was also privileged to have received Ijazah in Hadith from Mufti Mahmud al-Hasan al-Gangohi.

Nevertheless, Mufti Mahmud al-Hasan al-Gangohi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his Fatawa that, Shaykh Rashid Ahmad (Allah have mercy on him) was initially unaware of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi’s position, because al-Najdi was initially known in the Subcontinent as a reformer of Sunnah, and the one who strived greatly in rejecting Bid’a and establishing the Sunnah. As such, the respected Shaykh also said what he had heard, for a Muslim should always hold good opinions about other Muslims until it is proven otherwise.

Thereafter, the respected Shaykh’s mentor and teacher sent him the copy of Radd al-Muhtar wherein Allama Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) clearly refuted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. Allama Ibn Abidin states:

“…As it has occurred in our times with the followers of Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi, who appeared from Najd and imposed their control over the two sacred Harams. They used to attribute themselves to the Hanbali School but they believed that only they were Muslims and that who ever opposed their beliefs were polytheists (mushrik), thus they considered the killing of those who were from the Ahl al-Sunnah and their scholars to be legitimate, until Allah Most High destroyed their might and power.” (Radd al-Muhtar, 3/339-340, chapter regarding the followers of Abd al-Wahhab, the Khawarij of our times)

Mufti Mahmud al-Hasan states that had Shaykh Rashid Ahmad read what Allama Ibn Abidin stated in his Radd al-Muhtar regarding the Wahhabis, he would surely not have stated what he had in his Fatawa.

He states that this does not in any way demean the status and rank of Shaykh Mawlana Rashid Ahmad al-Gangohi, for he had said what he had heard. He did not have knowledge of the unseen, thus he cannot be blamed. Allama Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) was geographically closer to Najd, thus he was aware at first hand of what Shaykh Rashid Ahmad, who was living in India, was unaware of. (See: Fatawa Mahmudiyya, 13/411-412)

I would like to add here that this is clearly the case when we look at Shaykh Rashid Ahmad’s first Fatwa wherein he states “I have heard that he was a follower of the Hanbali School…..” stipulating that his information was purely based on what he had heard. This was not a matter of Fiqh or Shariah as such in which he needed to investigate, and anyway, a Muslim should always have good opinion (husn al-Zann) about fellow Muslims until the contrary is proven.

Moreover, the students of Shaykh Rashid Ahmad al-Gangohi (Allah have mercy on them all) clearly refuted the ideologies and actions of the Najdis. Shaykh Khalil Ahmad al-Saharanfuri (Allah have mercy on him), a student of the Shaykh, stated in his renowned al-Muhannad ala al-Mufannad that he and his teachers hold the same view as Allama Ibn Abidin regarding Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi and his followers. This was agreed upon and signed by almost all of the major scholars of the Indian subcontinent.

Finally before parting, I would like to say that I dislike the idea of dwelling over people’s personalities. Unfortunately, many of us are involved in debating about those who have passed away to the mercy of Allah; hence we have become negligent with actions (a’mal) and preparing one’s self for the hereafter. We will not be asked on the day of Judgment as to what opinion we held about such and such person, but what we will be questioned regarding is our own actions.

“That was a people that have passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and you of what you do! Of their actions there is no question in your case.” (Surah al-Baqarah, V. 134)

Therefore, do not dwell too much into personalities and names; rather, exceed them to conduct and deeds. Unfortunately, many Muslims argue and debate about these petty issues and leave the important aspects of Deen. Today, Muslims are being attacked in all fields by the enemies of Islam, yet here we are busy fighting amongst ourselves. Thus, we need to leave these issues to one side and concentrate on the things that unite us. May Allah Almighty bless this Ummah with unity, Ameen.

I was reluctant to answer this question and write on this subject, for there were far more important questions that needed answering. However, due to this question being posed repeatedly, I had no choice but to compile an answer. But we must remember that this is not something we need to dwell into, thus the matter is closed here, and I will not be answering any more questions on this topic.

And Allah Knows best



Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK



http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.asp?txt_QuestionID=q-18272411

taalibah
18-07-2004, 08:23 PM
interesting...
What about mawlana Manzur Nu'maani rahimahullah 's book?
Has anyone read it, any comments?

Muawiyah
19-07-2004, 10:05 PM
Oh yes in the book of Maulana Manzoor Ahmad Nu'maani Rahimahullah it is written exactly the other way around, that the Ulama of Deoband first thought that Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Abdul Wahhaab was a baby-eater (so to speak) and later they learned that he wasn't a wrong man.

Italiyya
20-07-2004, 04:54 PM
Shaykh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab was a great man, this Shaykh supported that it is necessary return to the origin of the Islam, to the pure Qura'an and Sunnah against Bi'dah(Innovation).
As Salamu 'aleikum wa rahmatu llah wa barakatu

Strive4Allah
20-07-2004, 05:18 PM
Yep rad molana manzur nomanis buk he was a man!man its wicked his kitaab

muminah
20-07-2004, 07:01 PM
Sheikh-ul-islaam Husaain Ahmed Madni (rahimahullah) in his fatawaa 1st wrote not in favour of wahaabis but later he did rujo'oo and gave a fatwaa in their favour !!!!

salman
20-07-2004, 07:15 PM
Sallamu Alaikum

Shaikhul Islam Al Hanafi Al Maturidi, the pillar of Hanafi Fiqh whose book is the most imprtant Fiqh book in the Sub continent, Allamah Ibn Abidin wrote against the Wahabis and maintained his position. Shaikh Khalil, the great Shaikh, buried in Al Baqi, teacher of Maulana Zakariyya, Khalifa of Maulana Ashraf wrote against them and maintained the view. Shaikhul Hadith Muhammad Sufi Sarwar, Khalifa of Mufti Muhammad Hasan (founder of jamia ashrafia and khalifa of Maulana Ashraf) wrote against them. Shaikh Hussain Abdus Sattar doesnot support them nor does Mufti Abdur Rahman nor does Mufti Muhammad Adam nor do their teachers and so forth. Even Mufti Desai made it clear the position of us in regards to the Wahabis.

taalibah
21-07-2004, 06:45 AM
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I would like to know the position of the original deobandi ulema regarding shaykh ul Islam imaam Muhammad ibn Abd ul-wahhab rahimahullah. It seems to me that there was some difference of opinion. Can someone explain maybe from mawlana Manzur Nu'maani's book or wherever which ulema the two parties consisted of and what their dalaail were. (I don't particularly want to know about the opinions of deobandi tullab ul-ilm / ulema today as their opinion does not really count as an overall deobandi opinion, wAllahu a'lam)

æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå

Muawiyah
21-07-2004, 01:46 PM
There are no "parties", in fact this is not a deeni problem at all, it is a historical controversy, it all depends on whether or not Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhaab considered everyone other than his own group to be a kaafir or not.

AbuZayd
21-07-2004, 03:18 PM
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=11949


Question :can you please explain who are Wahabies (is this a sect),
are they also Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah






The Wahabis, who call themselves Salafis, are a group who had
appeared in the last few centuries and hold beliefs contrary to the
Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah.

They try to pull the wool over our eyes by affiliating themselves
with the Salaf (Sahabah and Tabi'en) but in effect their beliefs and
practices are completely in contradictory with those of the Salaf.

The Wahabis are in essence Mujassimah (anthropomorphists-Those who
attribute
a body to Allah Ta'ala).

They attribute a hand, leg, face etc to Allah Ta'ala, while the
illustrious Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah hold fast to the
belief that Allah knows best the meaning of these words.

Similar is the case with all the sifat (qualities) etc in the Quran
ie. the Wahabis take them on there apparent meaning , claiming that
interpreting the Quran is not permissible, while we say that Allah
knows best what it means or at times we interpret it in a suitable
manner.


-The Wahabis reject the permissibility of using a deceased person as
a intermediary in dua, while we hold that it is permissible.

-The Wahabis reject the Ambiyaa being alive in their graves

- The Wahabis hold that Allah is really resting on His throne in the
sky, while we hold that this is from the Mutashabihaat.(Those unclear
statements hose meaning is only known to Allah).

- The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah disagree with the
destruction of numerous blessed historical landmarks by the Wahabis.

-The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah hold that taqleed of one
mazhab is necessary, while the Wahabis generally do not adhere to a
mazhab and claim that following one imam blindly is Bidah and shirk.




-There are dozens of other differences.




The Wahabis are vehement opponents of the Asharis and Maaturidis, who
constitute the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and are two groups whose
beliefs are correct. They also vehemently oppose tawassuf.



It is necessary for us to be on our guard against them as they are
very active propagators of their Baatil and false beliefs.



and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best


Mufti Ebrahim Desai

faqir
19-08-2004, 07:38 PM
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=11949


Question :can you please explain who are Wahabies (is this a sect),
are they also Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah






The Wahabis, who call themselves Salafis, are a group who had
appeared in the last few centuries and hold beliefs contrary to the
Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah.

They try to pull the wool over our eyes by affiliating themselves
with the Salaf (Sahabah and Tabi'en) but in effect their beliefs and
practices are completely in contradictory with those of the Salaf.

The Wahabis are in essence Mujassimah (anthropomorphists-Those who
attribute
a body to Allah Ta'ala).

They attribute a hand, leg, face etc to Allah Ta'ala, while the
illustrious Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah hold fast to the
belief that Allah knows best the meaning of these words.

Similar is the case with all the sifat (qualities) etc in the Quran
ie. the Wahabis take them on there apparent meaning , claiming that
interpreting the Quran is not permissible, while we say that Allah
knows best what it means or at times we interpret it in a suitable
manner.


-The Wahabis reject the permissibility of using a deceased person as
a intermediary in dua, while we hold that it is permissible.

-The Wahabis reject the Ambiyaa being alive in their graves

- The Wahabis hold that Allah is really resting on His throne in the
sky, while we hold that this is from the Mutashabihaat.(Those unclear
statements hose meaning is only known to Allah).

- The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah disagree with the
destruction of numerous blessed historical landmarks by the Wahabis.

-The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah hold that taqleed of one
mazhab is necessary, while the Wahabis generally do not adhere to a
mazhab and claim that following one imam blindly is Bidah and shirk.




-There are dozens of other differences.




The Wahabis are vehement opponents of the Asharis and Maaturidis, who
constitute the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and are two groups whose
beliefs are correct. They also vehemently oppose tawassuf.



It is necessary for us to be on our guard against them as they are
very active propagators of their Baatil and false beliefs.



and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best


Mufti Ebrahim Desai

:salam:

I think the latest advice from Mufti Ebrahim Desai on the Salafis makes the Deobandi stance pretty clear.

Abul Hasan
19-08-2004, 08:03 PM
Sheikh-ul-islaam Husaain Ahmed Madni (rahimahullah) in his fatawaa 1st wrote not in favour of wahaabis but later he did rujo'oo and gave a fatwaa in their favour !!!!


Please prove it, because he endorsed the book al Muhannad - which attacks the likes of ibn Abdal Wahhab, and he also attacked them in his Shihab al Thaqib.

Muawiyah
19-08-2004, 08:32 PM
Maulana Manzoor Ahmad Nu'maani rahimahullah has reported with reference to an announcement in the daily Zamindar, Lahore of 17th May 1925 that Shaikh ul Islaam Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madni made rujoo' from his earlier stance on the Wahabies and said that his previous views were based on heresay and in reality their khilaaf from the ahl us sunnah was not that great.

btw everyone I remember br. Abul Hasan from way back from the "muslim message board" on boardhost, and he really kick ghayr muqallid's donkey.

Muawiyah
19-08-2004, 09:00 PM
I was searching for the Shaykh Bulhead mentioned in some of the other posts and I found this interesting link:

فرية إنكار كرامات الأولياء (http://saaid.net/monawein/sh/10.htm)

Abul Hasan
19-08-2004, 10:01 PM
Maulana Manzoor Ahmad Nu'maani rahimahullah has reported with reference to an announcement in the daily Zamindar, Lahore of 17th May 1925 that Shaikh ul Islaam Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madni made rujoo' from his earlier stance on the Wahabies and said that his previous views were based on heresay and in reality their khilaaf from the ahl us sunnah was not that great.

btw everyone I remember br. Abul Hasan from way back from the "muslim message board" on boardhost, and he really kick ghayr muqallid's donkey.


:salam:

Akhi al Kareem Muawiyah, do you have that announcement to verify it? I have a book on the life of Sayyid Hussain Ahmad known as Cherag-e-Muhammad by Shaykh Zahid al-Hussaini. This book mentions that he was anti-Wahhabi and he never changed his view, as well as the fact that he compiled al Shihab al Thaqib in radd of Barelwi's and what he thought of ibn Abdal Wahhab.

This latter book is still being re-printed and no where does it state that he made Ruju of his stance on Ibn Abdal Wahhab. I personally know one of his students who is now over 100 years of age, alhamdulillah, and he never told me that his Shaykh made Ruju. Anyway, best thing to do is ask Sayyid Hussain's surviving sons who usually visit England around this time of the year (like: Asad, Arshad or Asghar, all three I have met).

At the end of the day what counts is the Haqq that the Wahhabiyya/Pseudo-Salafiyya are not Sunni in aqeeda who lack adaB and true Ilm with sahih Asanid back to the Salaf in the main.

And, yes akhi - I did used to post on Yusuf Adam al Miskeens site back in 2000-2001 - and i was also banned! Yusuf was exposed as a liar by his own ilk at salafitalk.net!! He was also accused of fraud on his own forum - which he naturally deleted quick smart! Talking about Fraud, these Wahhabi's also recently accused someone called Yasir as-Salafi from England - in his alleged defraudment of one of their main Shaykhs in Pakistan: Zubayr Ali Za'ie (a fanatical anti-Hanafi)! I saw the so called proof they brought against Yasir - and it was very weak indeed! Looks like Zubayr has been exposed. The likes of spubs.com - also hate Zubayr Ali!

Recently i Exposed that misquoter behind the muslimcreed forum (Abul Layth) - on where the hands should be placed in Salah! He took down my radd on him in the end - and also admitted finally that there is no Sahih evidence to place the hands upon the chest. I was also banned from ********* - for refuting another Wahhabi: Abu Alqama....

ANY WAY, WAHHABIYYA ARE CRUMBLNG SLOWLY INTO MANY FACTIONS - AT THE END OF THIS MONTH THERE ARE 3 DIFFERENT WAHHABI CONFERENCES BY 3 DIFFERENT FACTIONS IN 3 DIFFRENT TOWNS (B'ham, Leicester and Luton). What a LAUGH.....
Take care

Wassalam

Abul Hasan
19-08-2004, 10:11 PM
ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÉå

I would like to know the position of the original deobandi ulema regarding shaykh ul Islam imaam Muhammad ibn Abd ul-wahhab rahimahullah. It seems to me that there was some difference of opinion. Can someone explain maybe from mawlana Manzur Nu'maani's book or wherever which ulema the two parties consisted of and what their dalaail were. (I don't particularly want to know about the opinions of deobandi tullab ul-ilm / ulema today as their opinion does not really count as an overall deobandi opinion, wAllahu a'lam)

æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå

Salamu alikum,

Ibn Abdal Wahhab is no Shaykh al Islam and the view of Imam Muhammad Amin ibn Abidin in his Hashiyya to Durr al Mukhtar is the strongst position on Ibn Abdal Wahhab and his ilk. See al-Muhannad alal Mufannad by Khakil Ahmad al Sahranfuri for the official Deobandi view on Ibn Abdal Wahhab Posted in anotther thread by myself).

Muawiyah
19-08-2004, 10:31 PM
I don't have the announcement from 1925 but what Hadhrat Madni rahimahullah said in ash-shihaab was a bit OTT wasn't it? So I don't think it's unlikely that he toned it down later.

GenN
20-08-2004, 10:24 AM
Assalmu alykum,

when did you refut abul layth abul hasan?

I went to that board a couple of years ago, and they indeed do not like giving us fare access. They stopped my personal messaeg access, and people started openly abusing me and calling me names and the mods kept letting them do it. As for abu layth was the main person i debated with for the short period i was there until with all my PM access toped, and open abuse thrown at me i thought it better to leave, even though we half way through the debate.

the main thing being debated about was taraweeh rakah been 8 or 20 rakakah and i will never forget when i gave him some evidence (cant remeber what it was) and he said to me "GenN, i would hunt you down and rip your tongue for lying about Umar (peace be upon him)". That just vexed me soooo much.

Abu Usama
20-08-2004, 10:32 AM
an intersting, bur not altogether accurae, and outdated, read (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=gangohi+fatwas&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=98fk4p%24eto%241%40samba.rahul.net&rnum=1)

anti-bid'ah
20-08-2004, 01:44 PM
[QUOTE=salman]. Shaikh Khalil, the great Shaikh, buried in Al Baqi, teacher of Maulana Zakariyya, Khalifa of Maulana Ashraf wrote against them and maintained the view.

he was khalifa of faqeehul ummah mawlaanaa rasheed ahmad gangohee

Abul Hasan
20-08-2004, 04:01 PM
Assalmu alykum,

when did you refut abul layth abul hasan?

I went to that board a couple of years ago, and they indeed do not like giving us fare access. They stopped my personal messaeg access, and people started openly abusing me and calling me names and the mods kept letting them do it. As for abu layth was the main person i debated with for the short period i was there until with all my PM access toped, and open abuse thrown at me i thought it better to leave, even though we half way through the debate.

the main thing being debated about was taraweeh rakah been 8 or 20 rakakah and i will never forget when i gave him some evidence (cant remeber what it was) and he said to me "GenN, i would hunt you down and rip your tongue for lying about Umar (peace be upon him)". That just vexed me soooo much.

:salam:

First of all akhi you seem to be referring to a board from 2 years ago. Was it the one called (clear)misguideance.com? Because i am referring to Abul Layth's site: Muslimcreed (launched around March this year). I was on it in late May/June this year. I don't post there any more - though i am not banned yet!

Most of those people on that forum are full of arrogance, hatred, abuse and are Takfiri/pseudo-Salafi/pseudo-Jihadi types. They can't disprove that Taraweeh is 20 Rak'ats Insh'allah. The issue of Taraweeh has been dealt with already in al-Albani Unveiled (2 articles that they haven't been able to refute in some 10 years - see them at masud.co.uk). As far as I am aware none of them has studied Hadith with true Ulama. Leave them to bark in their cyber kennels... I feel at home here....

Wassalam

GenN
20-08-2004, 09:44 PM
:salam:


Most of those people on that forum are full of arrogance, hatred, abuse and
Wassalam

Assalmualykum,

I agree about most of them there are like that. But no i was not referring to clearguidance, although i used to debate on Cg also i was actaully debating with abu layth on muslim creed a couple of years back. muslim creed has been aropund for ages, but ir might have gone down, and then brought back up recently hence why you think it only started this year. back then Abu Layth was moderatro but cant remeber if he owned the site back then.

But yeah its not worth going to that board, the only brother i have respect for there is brother Muwaiwyah but he is differnt to the muwawiyah we have here.

was salaam.

salman
23-12-2004, 06:26 AM
[QUOTE=salman]. Shaikh Khalil, the great Shaikh, buried in Al Baqi, teacher of Maulana Zakariyya, Khalifa of Maulana Ashraf wrote against them and maintained the view.

he was khalifa of faqeehul ummah mawlaanaa rasheed ahmad gangohee

Yes, typo..sorry

muminah
23-12-2004, 11:39 AM
Please prove it, because he endorsed the book al Muhannad - which attacks the likes of ibn Abdal Wahhab, and he also attacked them in his Shihab al Thaqib.

sorry i havent been active on this forum:

Shaykh Al-Islaam Moulana Husain Ahmad Madani rahimahullah at first wrote in his book ''Al-shihaab Athaaqib" against Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab Rahimahullah, BUT afterwards he did ruj'oo from his previous statement and wrote in several newspapers that he had changed his view and that his previous statement was NOT based on their writings, and after seeing the truth he obviously changed his mind and he further stated that they ARE from the Ahlu-sunnah wal-jammah. For more refrence see pg. 177-178; 'Fatawaa Shyakh-ul-Islaam' (in Urdu) published by Maktaba-deeniyyah deoband.

Usman
24-12-2004, 04:26 AM
I talked to Mufti Zarwali Khan Sahib once. He holds the point that Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab was a Mutashaddid(extremist) person.

Then I went to Jamia Farooqia , Karachi. They hold the view that he was a nice person, and very Muttaqi. Although his "Taqwa" was that he waged wars upon Shirk and Bid'ah.

Then I asked Mufti Ebrahim Desai sahib, he called him Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab. You can find it on his website www.ask-imam.com .

and blah blah blah.

What the point is, that there is a difference of opinion among Deobandis even, regarding the character of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab. However, both the parties agree that he was extra-strict upon several things. As many remember, that Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (Rahimahullah) , alongwith Maulana Syyed Suleman Nadvi(Rahimahullah) , when they were called to visit Saudia in the H1 of 1900s , they made several corrections to their practices. For example, the Saudis beleived that no place is mutabarrik, which was corrected, etc etc.

Therefore,overall thinking is that, Shaykh Muhammad(Rahimahullah) was good in intentions, but his actions taken, cannot be completely supported.

eh?
wasSalaam,
Usman

abdullatif
24-12-2004, 04:37 AM
Bismillah
as sallamu alaikum

Lets us all be very very careful from falling to the traps of those who say the follow Qur'an and sunnah. For following a madhhab is following qur'an and sunnah. All one has to do is research the orgin of the salafis and ask the learned ones about them. For Allah ta'ala says "ask those people of remebrance if you do not know" 16:43

faqir
16-01-2005, 04:54 PM
Asalamu alaykum,

It appears as though some pseudo salafiyya have made it their life's work to seek approval for Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab from the statements of some of the Deobandi shuyukh when to be honest it is irrelevant what they thought of him as they were not in the area concerned when he was alive. Furthermore, those Hanafis who sit here defending him and his followers today should see what they [the followers of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab] think of the Maturidi Creed and the Hanafi madhab or specifically the Deobandis by visiting their websites and reading their awful literature eg. ahya.

If you really want to see an example of the position of some of the Orthodox Ulema on Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab you can see what Allama Ibn Abidin RH states [as mentioned by Akhi Salman] in his marginal notes on the book [Hashiya Radd al-Muhtar `ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar 3:309], said:

"The name of Khawarij is applied to those who part ways with Muslims and declare them disbelievers, as took place in our time with the followers of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab who came out of Najd and attacked the Two Noble Sanctuaries. They described themselves as belonging to the Hanbali creed, but it was their belief that only they were Muslims and whoever was against their belief was an idolater, so they justified the killing of Ahl al-Sunna and their ulama until Almighty Allah deprived them of their ascendancy.'



In any case, all this is pointless. It does not take a genius to open up Ibn Abdul Wahhab's books and see his clear error in various issues! So, what so and so says or does not say about him becomes irrelevant.....

"Whoever determines the truth from people alone will remain lost in the plains of bewilderment. Rather, know the truth, and you will know its people."

[Ghazali, Ihya `Ulum al-Din, 'The Book of Knowledge']


Wasalam.