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Abu Usama
19-07-2004, 07:30 PM
Salam,

just wanted to know what people thought about the MCB, and especially thier letter which they sent to 300 mosques recently which told us to co-operate fully with the police when we suspect that our Muslim brothers might be upto no-good. Also, is there any justification for Muslims to form a branch within the structure of the kafir government?

wasalam

GenN
20-07-2004, 07:38 AM
Assalma laykum

they went too far.

They were setup to be able to provide some sort of voice for the muslims in uk to be able to make life easier in uk for muslims. However over the years they have completly forgotten what islamic politics is and their political thought has seperated with that of islam and has become a mish mash of some islmic principles with kuffar politcal pricnciples. Their defeated mentality keep making them utter ridiculous things like "islamic democarcy" when democracy is totally incompatible with Islam. So basically they are fast losing thier islamic principles and thought and fast becoming more and more integrated into the west in their thoughts and way of life, and are desparetly trying to makes islam look as if is comaptible with western way of life i.e defeated mentality (that islam is defeatd and the west is right so we hve to make islam look as if it is compatible with west)

Shaykhs-Pir Sahib
20-07-2004, 08:36 AM
as salamu alaykum

out of interest, do you believe they commit apostasy, GenN?

do you also agree with the title 'Mushrik Council of Britain' given to it by certain corners of our ummah?

GenN
20-07-2004, 09:28 AM
as salamu alaykum

out of interest, do you believe they commit apostasy, GenN?

do you also agree with the title 'Mushrik Council of Britain' given to it by certain corners of our ummah?

no

and

no.

they are the ignorant council of britian.

Now out of interest do you belive they commit apostasy sheiks pir .

do you also agree with the title 'Mushrik Council of Britain' given to it by certain corners of our ummah?

Shaykhs-Pir Sahib
20-07-2004, 11:10 AM
as salamu alaykum

no and no.

but i believe they are far better than many other islamic groups in this country, even though i have my reservations regarding them, and they have made many mistakes.

Allah knows best

AbuZayd
20-07-2004, 06:31 PM
There was an interesting article about the MCB by the Murabitun shaykh - have you read it?

It was quite funny in parts.

786
20-07-2004, 07:29 PM
Lets not spend time criticising an organisation that is essentially trying to do its best. I think personally that the work they do and the position they hold has been quite beneficial to the muslims.

OK so they dont make the right decisions all the time but then who's perfect. They represent moderate islam and it is not a misguided and extremist islam. The press releases they issue are of interest and benefit to the Muslims in the UK.

We have to accept there will always be difference in opinion but their goals are respectable. And who said democracy is haram. Why then do we vote in this country? If we dont actively participate in this society then we may as well go to another country as we will very quickly be marginalised and cut down by the media and zionists who are indeed extremely active aginast islam.

GenN
21-07-2004, 07:46 AM
And who said democracy is haram. Why then do we vote in this country?

yup democrcy is haraam cos

democracy is : the law of the PEOPLE, for the people, BY the people.

Whereas Islam is : the law of ALLAH, to be implented by the Khalifa.

So democracy is the law which man makes from his own limited brain, Islamic Law is from Allah. Law in Islam from any other than Allah is Haraam. As for voting in this country it is to do with the principle of "lesser of 2 evils" and has nothing to do with democracy been permissable.

was salam bro

GenN
21-07-2004, 07:48 AM
There was an interesting article about the MCB by the Murabitun shaykh - have you read it?

It was quite funny in parts.


post it up akhi, i like the murabitun.

786
21-07-2004, 08:55 AM
If we simply blurt the slogan of 'khilafa is the answer' to the exclusion of the realities of where and how we live, then unfortunately we are going to be as much use to the Muslims as HT and Al-Muhajiroun - and we know that these oganisations have done far more damage to the uk muslims than good.

We need to work within the system here in the uk to bring about effective representation for the Muslims here and make our voices heard - just like the MCB is trying to do. A new law is under review about the incitement of religious hatred. This has come about because of the hard work of bodies like the MCB.

GenN
21-07-2004, 10:39 AM
If we simply blurt the slogan of 'khilafa is the answer' to the exclusion of the realities of where and how we live, then unfortunately we are going to be as much use to the Muslims as HT and Al-Muhajiroun - and we know that these oganisations have done far more damage to the uk muslims than good.

We need to work within the system here in the uk to bring about effective representation for the Muslims here and make our voices heard - just like the MCB is trying to do. A new law is under review about the incitement of religious hatred. This has come about because of the hard work of bodies like the MCB.


Ht and AMJ are at one end of the extreme.

and with MCB i said the voice is NOT the problem, we need the voice. The problem is the over integration and the "islamic democracy nonsense" from MCB members. This is the opposite end of the extreme of AMJ and HT. The middle path between these 2 extremes needs to be taken in working for the revival of the ummah wherever yuo are in the world.

Abu Usama
21-07-2004, 10:44 AM
Democracy

- it is not law of the people, rather it is rule of the people. In the west we have "representative democracy" rather than the true democracy, whereby we have representatives whom we vote for to rule us.

- i hope you see the difference between law and rule.

- However, it must be noted that the American concept of "democracy" means more than just this. It means secularism and consumerism and capitalism.

As for the MCB, I'm sure they do some good and I think that such organisations are necessary for the interests of the Muslims. But the defects are also great, such as some of the stances they hold.

GenN
21-07-2004, 10:53 AM
Democracy

- it is not law of the people, rather it is rule of the people. In the west we have "representative democracy" rather than the true democracy, whereby we have representatives whom we vote for to rule us.

- i hope you see the difference between law and rule.

- However, it must be noted that the American concept of "democracy" means more than just this. It means secularism and consumerism and capitalism.

As for the MCB, I'm sure they do some good and I think that such organisations are necessary for the interests of the Muslims. But the defects are also great, such as some of the stances they hold.

law/rule dosent really seem differnet to me. Anyway in the west who ever you vote for is going to be implemeting man made laws, and british consittuion is based on secularism and capitalism is it not???

Any party that cam intoexistence saying if you vote for and we get into power, we will rule by sharia, is probably not even allowed to stand for election, cos it not secularist or capitalist which itmust be. So democaracy in whatever form is not from Islam or comaptible with Islam. islam is Islam and kufr is kufr, they don't mix and match in these issues.

GenN
21-07-2004, 10:57 AM
Democracy


As for the MCB, I'm sure they do some good and I think that such organisations are necessary for the interests of the Muslims. But the defects are also great, such as some of the stances they hold.


almost every group and even sect has some good in it. For example Ht even have the good that they have raised more wareness of the khilafah. Even salafis have the good that they have raised interest in hadith froms scholars (see Sheikh Nuhs article at masud.co.uk)

the question is the overall stance, is it good or bad overall i.e does it have more good than evil or vice versa? And remeber this even though the group has 2 goods and only 1 bad, that does NOT mean that the overall stance is that they are good, cos it may be that the 1 bad is an extremely bad thing which outweighs the 2 good things.

was salam.