How do the Deobandis explain meeting the Prophet?

[Rifai]

:bism:
:salam:

Our belief is that some of the Sufiyah have been blessed with the vision of the Prophet :saw: in both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical, in an awaken state.
Since Deobandis seem to reject the concept of Rasulallah :saw: being able to present himself at different places, how would the Saints of the Deobandi school explain these encounters?

I do not want this thread to become a Hathir wa Nathir thread. Rather I want to see how the beliefs of the Deobandis relate to that of me and many of the Sufiyah of Arab lands. Neither do I want anyone to reply with the intention of "debating", "refuting", or any similar ideas.

wassalam

[Abu Suliman]

:bism:
:salam:

Our belief is that some of the Sufiyah have been blessed with the vision of the Prophet :saw: in both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical, in an awaken state.
Since Deobandis seem to reject the concept of Rasulallah :saw: being able to present himself at different places, how would the Saints of the Deobandi school explain these encounters?

I do not want this thread to become a Hathir wa Nathir thread. Rather I want to see how the beliefs of the Deobandis relate to that of me and many of the Sufiyah of Arab lands. Neither do I want anyone to reply with the intention of "debating", "refuting", or any similar ideas.
wassalam


some of the deobandi ulema have also been blessed with the vision of Rasulullah :saw: in the state of wakefullness among them are Hazrat Moulana Hussain Ahmad Madni(rah) Hazrat Moulana Qasim Nontawi(rah) and also few others.

[Saad]

Assalam o alaykum,

Please see here (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=390287&postcount=286), here (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=390639&postcount=298), and here (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=365666&postcount=53).

[Ali al-Hanafi]

:salam:

My Hadhrat always says that whenever anyone has a vision of Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him), be it in reality or in a dream, it's not that Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) comes to the person so that the person may see him. Rather, it's the person who sees Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Barzakh from where Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) is, just like on TV. Thus, the question of Hadir Nadhir isn't even relevant here according to my Hadhrat.

In addition, many who claim to have been in the presence of Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) often don't have beards, live a Haraam lifestyles, receive a Haraam income, etc and they think Rasulullah's (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) visited them? What a joke.

[Rifai]

Sidi Saad,
:salam:
:jazak:

What is the basis of sidi Qastalani's statements regarding the Likeness that Allah:taala: Creates? And if you meet the Prophet:saw: or Awliya:anhum:, and it's not mere seeing, but also speaking, communicating, teaching, learning, touching etc. Are you saying none of this is the Prophet :saw: or Awliya :anhum: but a Likeness which Allah :taala: Creates? According to what extent are the Prophets and Awliya active and participating? I'm afraid the posts did not give much clarification.

May Allah bless you

[Saad]

Assalam o alaykum,

Plese re-read the quote of Mujaddid.

Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf-i-Sani (may Allah have mercy on him) writes in a maktub regarding khawariq to Mirza Ihsan al-Din Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him):


واوليائے كه صاحب علم و كشف اند جائز است كه بعضے از خوارق جود اطلاع پيدا نه كنند بلكه صور مثاليه ايشاں رادرامكنه متعه ظاہر سازند ودرمسافت بعيده كارہائے عجيبه وغريبه آن صور بظهور رآند كه صاحب آن صوررا از آنہا اصلا اطلاع يست

"And at times, it happens that people report a certain miracle (karamah) from a certain wali when he himself is not aware at all of this karamah. And those awliya that are from people of knowledge and kashf, it is possible that they are not aware of their own khawariq (karamaat); and their likeness (misali surats — an appearance of their figures) appear in far away places and perform strange things which these [awliya] have no knowledge of.”

And then Mujaddid explains this by giving an example:

“Hadhrat Makhdum Qibla (may Allah have mercy on him) mentioned [to me] that a certain buzurg used to say that how strange it is that people from all around visit and some [among them] say we saw you in Makkah during the Hajj season and we performed Hajj with you and some [among them] say that we saw you in Baghdad and they claim to be friends of mine when I have not even left my house nor have I seen these people before. What a great accusation they put against me!”

[Maktubat, vol.I # 216]

So from the above quote it is clear that seeing an individual in multiple places falls under the category of miracles and miracle is an act of Allah and doesn't fall under the qudrah of humans.

Beside it is not only the view of Mujaddid Alf-i-Sani and 'Allamah Qastallani but of jamhur of Ahl al-Sunnah. Similar was mentioned by Imam Ghazali, Shaykh Abd al-Haq Muhaddith Dahlawi, 'Allamah ibn Munir [Sharih of Bukhari], Shaykh Abu Tahir Quzwayni, Shaykh Muhammad Shadhili al-Maghribi, 'Allamah Sha'rani, Shaykh Muhammad bin Sayyid Darwaish [studenf of 'Allamah ibn Abidin], Hakim al-Ummah Mawlana Thanwi, 'Allamah Sayyid Ahmad Raf'ai, Mullah Ali Qari (may Allah have mercy on him them), etc.

[Rifai]

:salam:
Sidi,

I have read and understood it to the best of my ability. And i don't see why there was a need to read it again. While it is true that sometimes these Awliya might not be aware of these things, it's also known that at times the Awliya do know and are well aware of what takes place. I thought this issue was quite clear and therefore decided not to mention in. So i don't see how it being classed as a miracle has anything to do with it. You have gone into this thread with the attitude of either a debator or lecturer, both which i find contrary to the very spirit of this thread.

:salam:

[Ahmad_shakeel]

Assalam o alaykum,

Plese re-read the quote of Mujaddid.

Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf-i-Sani (may Allah have mercy on him) writes in a maktub regarding khawariq to Mirza Ihsan al-Din Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him):


واوليائے كه صاحب علم و كشف اند جائز است كه بعضے از خوارق جود اطلاع پيدا نه كنند بلكه صور مثاليه ايشاں رادرامكنه متعه ظاہر سازند ودرمسافت بعيده كارہائے عجيبه وغريبه آن صور بظهور رآند كه صاحب آن صوررا از آنہا اصلا اطلاع يست

"And at times, it happens that people report a certain miracle (karamah) from a certain wali when he himself is not aware at all of this karamah. And those awliya that are from people of knowledge and kashf, it is possible that they are not aware of their own khawariq (karamaat); and their likeness (misali surats — an appearance of their figures) appear in far away places and perform strange things which these [awliya] have no knowledge of.”

And then Mujaddid explains this by giving an example:

“Hadhrat Makhdum Qibla (may Allah have mercy on him) mentioned [to me] that a certain buzurg used to say that how strange it is that people from all around visit and some [among them] say we saw you in Makkah during the Hajj season and we performed Hajj with you and some [among them] say that we saw you in Baghdad and they claim to be friends of mine when I have not even left my house nor have I seen these people before. What a great accusation they put against me!”

[Maktubat, vol.I # 216]

So from the above quote it is clear that seeing an individual in multiple places falls under the category of miracles and miracle is an act of Allah and doesn't fall under the qudrah of humans.

Beside it is not only the view of Mujaddid Alf-i-Sani and 'Allamah Qastallani but of jamhur of Ahl al-Sunnah. Similar was mentioned by Imam Ghazali, Shaykh Abd al-Haq Muhaddith Dahlawi, 'Allamah ibn Munir [Sharih of Bukhari], Shaykh Abu Tahir Quzwayni, Shaykh Muhammad Shadhili al-Maghribi, 'Allamah Sha'rani, Shaykh Muhammad bin Sayyid Darwaish [studenf of 'Allamah ibn Abidin], Hakim al-Ummah Mawlana Thanwi, 'Allamah Sayyid Ahmad Raf'ai (may Allah have mercy on him them), etc.

mashAllah

its heart warming to know that every single aqida of ulama ahle sunat deoband is proved from majority of scholars. all their aqidas are according to quran and sunnat

sar bakaf sar buland
deoband deoband

[Mubid al-Majus]

:salam:
Sidi,

I have read and understood it to the best of my ability. And i don't see why there was a need to read it again. While it is true that sometimes these Awliya might not be aware of these things, it's also known that at times the Awliya do know and are well aware of what takes place. I thought this issue was quite clear and therefore decided not to mention in. So i don't see how it being classed as a miracle has anything to do with it. You have gone into this thread with the attitude of either a debator or lecturer, both which i find contrary to the very spirit of this thread.

:salam:

I seriously think that is a baseless claim and very judgemental. The brother simply linked a few posts and then mentioned a few quotes and opinions.

[المفكّر]

:salam:

My Hadhrat always says that whenever anyone has a vision of Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him), be it in reality or in a dream, it's not that Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) comes to the person so that the person may see him. Rather, it's the person who sees Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Barzakh from where Rasulullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) is, just like on TV. Thus, the question of Hadir Nadhir isn't even relevant here according to my Hadhrat.

:ws:

A very close friend of mine who is a scholar from Dar Ul Uloom Bury told me the exact same thing when I asked him a similar question. And frankly, the beliefs of the Barelvi brothers about the Messenger of Allah :saw: being omnipresent and having complete knowledge of the unseen may seem like exalting the Prophet :saw: to the layman, but on closer inspection in light of the Qur'an, Hadith and the Seerah is actually insulting to the magnificent character of the Messenger of Allah :saw:.