Salafis vs. non-Salafi la-Madhabis: Which are more numerous?

[Sunni_Student786]

As salaamu alaykum.

From your experiences, particularly in North America, which group of "Wahhabis"/"La Madhabis" would you say are more numerous, the Salafis or the ones who don't necessary use the term "Salaf" as a buzz word and who may say that it is "OK" to follow a madhab, but will almost never say that it is obligatory, such as Jamal Badawi?

Wa'salaam.

[Hypermodestmuslima]

Dunno...but a lot of good speakers are like jamal badawi...they've got motivating speeches which move around enjoining good and forbidding evil (in general things like don't lie, etc. etc. )

[quran_alone]

As salaamu alaykum.

From your experiences, particularly in North America, which group of "Wahhabis"/"La Madhabis" would you say are more numerous, the Salafis or the ones who don't necessary use the term "Salaf" as a buzz word and who may say that it is "OK" to follow a madhab, but will almost never say that it is obligatory, such as Jamal Badawi?

Wa'salaam.


I think by far the clerics follow the madhabs, the salafs generally follow the hanbal thought, but the clerics who say you don't have to follow a madhab are extremely rare. They may say that you don't need to follow a specific madhab, that is you can follow anyone you want on various issue and not just one.

But very few will say you do not need to follow any madhab.

Most clerics today are fundementalist who recognize only these four madhabs. Remember its the madhabs where they get their fiqh, the moderate ones like Qaradawi take from any one, usually the most lenient on that specific issue and take another on another specific issue. Some like the pakistani usually follow one madhab always,abu haneefa, the saudi salafist follow hanbal.

[muslim786]

I think by far the clerics follow the madhabs, the salafs generally follow the hanbal thought, but the clerics who say you don't have to follow a madhab are extremely rare. They may say that you don't need to follow a specific madhab, that is you can follow anyone you want on various issue and not just one.

But very few will say you do not need to follow any madhab.

Most clerics today are fundementalist who recognize only these four madhabs. Remember its the madhabs where they get their fiqh, the moderate ones like Qaradawi take from any one, usually the most lenient on that specific issue and take another on another specific issue. Some like the pakistani usually follow one madhab always,abu haneefa, the saudi salafist follow hanbal.
Please in future learn something about the issue at hand before making a comment on the issue.
The main difference between the salafi aka wahabis and the orthodox muslims, is that of aqeedah. Although the salafis were born from within the hanbali madhab as their former masters such Ibn Tamiyya and abdul wahab najdi were hanabalis, the current day salafis DO NOT even stick to the hanabali madhab although they may take a lot from it, also even if they were 100% hanabali in fiqh, as for example abdul wahab najdi appears to be, and the late shaykh bin baz was initially, it is their aqeedah primarily that differentiates them from orthodox muslims.
Also your extreme hatred towards pakistanis is disgusting. You seem to gage them as intolerant people. They have amongst them some of the nicest people you could meet anywhere.
For you to gage a better understanding of what a madhab is and why othodox muslims follow a madhab I direct you to the following articles, both of which have been written by non-pakistanis, in fact both western reverts, may Allah SWT shower them with the choicest of blessings.

http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000083.aspx
http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000164.aspx

Additionally you should also read shaykh hamzu yusuf translation of Hazrat Shaykh Murabat al Haaj's fatwa on the madhabs.

http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000165.aspx

[Omar HH]

I think really the Salafis are very little.

I might be wrong.

I think that the true "Wahhabis" may have tons of books in your local mosque, tons of magazines, tons of other media outlets and websites, but that they are really a minority.

What i've seen is la-Madhabi people who have aqeedah of Ahlul Sunnah but just get their religion from "fatwas."

These la-Mahdabi people usually do reject Tassawuf because they really know nothing about it. They also reject tawassul (some of them) and sometimes Mawlid.

But I don't really think they are Salafis.

I think at first we all way over-estimated the number of Salafis - I may be wrong - but in reality it's just la-madhabis.

[Muawiyah]

most of the muslim organizations in west seem to be Ikhwani or Jamaati types

[ahsanirfan]

most of the muslim organizations in west seem to be Ikhwani or Jamaati types

that's right.. the MSAs were founded by the Ikhwaanis....

[Omar HH]

Everything is Ikhwani in this country when you think about it. Wow I just realized that.

[Yaseen]

Salaam

I have to agree with Brother muawiyah that there are a lot of jamaati organisations around which I wasn't aware of before.

Wasalaam

[muslim786]

Salaam

I have to agree with Brother muawiyah that there are a lot of jamaati organisations around which I wasn't aware of before.

Wasalaam
Indeed, here in the UK they seem to be running the show, their influence is very great. Yeah a lot Isocs aka MSA are under their strong influence.
It only seems to be, on the whole, the older generation clinging to the orthodox Islam.

[Sunni_Student786]

Could you guys be elaborate a bit on what you mean by the statement that most organizations in the West are "Ikhwani", as Ikhwani ideology has many forms and sub-branches. Could someone identify some of the distinguishing characteristics of the "Ikhwani-types", both in terms of organizations and individuals, in the West who are most prominent?

[Omar HH]

Not like Sayyid Qutb Ikhwani.

Hasan al-Banna and Yusuf al-Qaradawi Ikhwanis.

www.islamonline.net

There you will get what we mean.

Jazakallahu Khayrun

[quran_alone]

Could you guys be elaborate a bit on what you mean by the statement that most organizations in the West are "Ikhwani", as Ikhwani ideology has many forms and sub-branches. Could someone identify some of the distinguishing characteristics of the "Ikhwani-types", both in terms of organizations and individuals, in the West who are most prominent?


Well i mean most of the muslim parties who are popular in the muslim world are groups like the ikhwan. Moderate fundementalist muslims who believe in an islamic state but will follow probably the most lenient opinions of the 4 Imaams on various issue. They will look at what was the most lenient of the four on a ny specific issue and then follow that. Although there are other groups, but remember the prominent clerics believe in that, like qaradawi.

They are now debating the issue of islam and democracy as the clerics can not say they are against democracy so qaradawi now is calling for an islamic democracy. Many people say there is nothing called an islamic democracy, but he said there is and so do the ikhwan.