The last words of Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi...?

[Majlis Raipuri]

Do u know the last words or sayings (wasiat) of ahmad raza khan barelwi?

[Saad]

Assalam o alaykum,

This is his last will called Wasaya Sharif that was written 2 hours and 17 minutes before his death.

http://www.defendersofislam.com/TPL/Read_Or_Listen.asp?txtSer=WAS&Type=RAZ&Submit=Search

One can't help but smile as what a joke it is.

[caravan of martyrs]

salaaam

saad i be very grateful if u could translate into english what raza khan said in his final will

[ImaanSeeker]

salaaam

saad i be very grateful if u could translate into english what raza khan said in his final will

me too

:jazak:

[abuhajira]

:salam:

there seems to be some pages missing..

:ws:

[True Life]

:salam:

What's the purpose of finding out the last words of someone we all agree about, that he's not worth to be followed? We all should be much more concerned about what OUR last words will be...

[Jawad_ Khan]

:salam:

What's the purpose of finding out the last words of someone we all agree about, that he's not worth to be followed? We all should be much more concerned about what OUR last words will be...


:thumbsup:


.

[Ahmad_shakeel]

salaaam

saad i be very grateful if u could translate into english what raza khan said in his final will

ya i say this shd b translated

to show that ahmad raza came up with a new religion

any br. who is not interested, shdnt even be posting here to begin wiht

why stop others?

no 1 is askin for translation so it shd b folowed but to expose

[taalib_e_ilm]

Assalamualykum

When I was in Gujarat, India in 2000; outside the masjid's entrance door, I saw a paper taped. This was on few masaajid. The paper talked about a dream that son of Ahmed Raza Khan had. In the dream, ARK was all beaten and burned and told his son to make taubah and leave Razakhaniat and come into Ahle-e-Sunnat was Jamaat. Also mentioned that Ulama-e-Deoband are on Haqq and those Ulama-e-Deoband that have passed away are enjoying in the grave and he himself is being punished. He also said, he's very afraid that he will not get intercession of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wassalam) due to his teaching of biddah.

This paper on the door of Masjid was in Urdu and since I didn’t know Urdu at that time, so someone translated to me in English. There was a lot on the paper but I cannot recollect much. Anyone know more about this? If yes, please share.

[Abu Suliman]

Assalamualykum

When I was in Gujarat, India in 2000; outside the masjid's entrance door, I saw a paper taped. This was on few masaajid. The paper talked about a dream that son of Ahmed Raza Khan had. In the dream, ARK was all beaten and burned and told his son to make taubah and leave Razakhaniat and come into Ahle-e-Sunnat was Jamaat. Also mentioned that Ulama-e-Deoband are on Haqq and those Ulama-e-Deoband that have passed away are enjoying in the grave and he himself is being punished. He also said, he's very afraid that he will not get intercession of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wassalam) due to his teaching of biddah.

This paper on the door of Masjid was in Urdu and since I didn’t know Urdu at that time, so someone translated to me in English. There was a lot on the paper but I cannot recollect much. Anyone know more about this? If yes, please share.

Was this on deobandi Masjids?

[Ameer H]

cmon man its abit obvious in my opinion that is not true
well not obvious
but if it was i think there would be No Barelvis at all

[abulayl]

The paper talked about a dream that son of Ahmed Raza Khan had. .
WHo is the son of ahmad radha khan saab?

[taalib_e_ilm]

Was this on deobandi Masjids?

Masjids normally dont have anything written outside. Berelwi Masjid, Deobandi Masjid, etc. Yes, the Masjid we were in allowed the work of Tabligh. That doesnt mean that Masjid is Deobandi or every musalli is Deobandi.

[taalib_e_ilm]

WHo is the son of ahmad radha khan saab?

I have no info of who or how many sons do Ahmed Radha Khan has.

[taalib_e_ilm]

cmon man its abit obvious in my opinion that is not true
well not obvious
but if it was i think there would be No Barelvis at all

If there's a great population following certain belief doesnt mean they are on Haqq. There are more Christians then Muslims on this world. Does that make them on Haqq. No.

[Abu Suliman]

cmon man its abit obvious in my opinion that is not true
well not obvious
but if it was i think there would be No Barelvis at all

Allah knows best if it is true or not but if it was do you think that brelwies will admit that Imam Ahmed Raza was wrong and spreaded bidah?
may be you can you also ask on the brelevi forum you visit when the brelwies mention Prophet's name they say Hazrat Muhammad :saw: and also with the Sahabah(ra) and other great muslim's they use Hazrat but for Imam Ahmed Raza they use Ala Hazrat which means the most high Hazrat to me that is disrespectfull they do not call the Prophet Ala Hazrat is that not more respect for the Imam not the Prophet:saw:?

[Ameer H]

If we did not respect the Prophet peace be upon him more nauzubillah why would we read naats praising him? why would we send durood and salaat o slaam? Am not sure why the name is given as Ala Hazrat but our respect for the Prophet peace be upon him is much more. and also not getting in to a debate or owt but ny1 seen the vid about the dream of Ashraf ali thanvi's student how can we be sure that is not true?

[abuhajira]

If we did not respect the Prophet peace be upon him more nauzubillah why would we read naats praising him?


:salam:

Since you yourself have brough this aspect, I would like to make this point clear. Perhaps you will listen, perhaps you wont. My aim is to mention it inshAllah.

Love for Rasulullah :saw: is NOT in singing naats. Whoever told you that, then the gospels were written in blind love of Eesa a.s, they still wont save the christians for the attrocities they brought in their religion.

True Love of Rasulullah :saw: is in following 110% in what sunnahs, and commandments Rasulullah :saw: brought and refrain from all that which he prohibited. That will show the love and respect for Rasulullah :saw:

No doubts Naats are one of the ways of showing love, but this is like nafl salah. It wont help least bit if the faraidh are not fulfilled.


why would we send durood and salaat o slaam?


The Salaat and Salam sent in 11 out of 12 Masajid around my house was "Salallahu Alayka Ya Rasulullah.. Wassallama Alayka Yaa Habeeb Allah.."

Can you provide me the source where does this durud come from? I have not found it yet. Almost every barelvi in my community ONLY knows 3 duroods.. One is the above, and the other is durood e ibrahimi, which most of them think cannot be read outside Salah.. And the thirst one is Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam, but that many of them make makhsus to whenever the name is taken.

No doubt there are many many barelwi shuyukh who recites 1000's of durood daily, but the ones they have established among the awaam (i.e Salallahu alayka ....) is not masnoon.

Then there is another Salat wa Salam, Assalatu Wassalamu.. I havent found that one as well.

And then how can we forget the poetry "Mustapha Jaan e Rahmat peh laakhon salam", which is carried out in most masajid religiously. The muadhin literally tries to catch the kids to make them stand for this "salaami".. and glares are given for those who do not attent, some masajid are lenient and they dont glare, they simply done see those musalli who refuse to join this salami as either "gustakh e rasool" or in other even more linient places "not religious enough".. All these aspects are such that I dont see any ghulu in many other places, not even among arab people who hold similar views..

P.S I have no comments about the dreams of either side, I also do not agree is putting up wisaya of Ml. Khan Saheb without posting all the pages. But thats just me trying to see is impartially.

:ws:

[Saad]

Assalamualykum

When I was in Gujarat, India in 2000; outside the masjid's entrance door, I saw a paper taped. This was on few masaajid. The paper talked about a dream that son of Ahmed Raza Khan had. In the dream, ARK was all beaten and burned and told his son to make taubah and leave Razakhaniat and come into Ahle-e-Sunnat was Jamaat. Also mentioned that Ulama-e-Deoband are on Haqq and those Ulama-e-Deoband that have passed away are enjoying in the grave and he himself is being punished. He also said, he's very afraid that he will not get intercession of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wassalam) due to his teaching of biddah.

Assalam o alaykum,

Are you referring to this? It says that a murid of Ahmad Rada, Sufi Muhammad Ali Qadri, had this dream and was published from Bareily.


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/khanbaba21/dream-raza-0.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/khanbaba21/dream-raza-1.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/khanbaba21/dream-raza-2.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/khanbaba21/dream-raza-3.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/khanbaba21/dream-raza-4.jpg

[NeednoName]

WHo is the son of ahmad radha khan saab?

Assalaam'aaleykum!

Don't have any info about his son, but you can watch his grandson in action in the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHMczwaTGsU

My oh My! He's damn funny.

[Saad]

me too

:jazak:

Assalam o alaykum,

Few points mentioned in Wasaya Sharif:


"Hold fast to my faith and doctrine which is apparent from my books. Hold fast to it and remain honest to it, for it is the most significant duty among the duties."

"After my death if possible present (sura) Fatiha to me twice or thrice in a week and offer the following dishes: ICED RICE PUDDING, EVEN IF IT IS MADE FROM THE MILK OF THE BUFFALO, BIRYANI RICE DISH OF THE BUKHARAN TYPE, KABABS, KOFTA, TABAQ, CREAM, BEANS, SAMOSA, APPLE JUICE, POMEGRANATE JUICE, A BOTTLE OF WATER AND ICED MILK. IF IT IS POSSIBLE, YOU MAY PRESENT THIS OFFERING EVERYDAY, EVEN A DISH OF THEM - OTHERWISE AS YOU LIKE."

This is atleast 12 different type of dishes that Ahmad Rada Khan Barelwi mentioned few hours before his death.

[taalib_e_ilm]

Assalam o alaykum,

Are you referring to this? It says that a murid of Ahmad Rada, Sufi Muhammad Ali Qadri, had this dream and was published from Bareily.



walikumsalam,

No. This is different. It might have been same and summarized to make it short.

[Nomadic]

I particularly do not care much of this berlevi and Deobandi debate.. To me what concerns me the most is the scholarship and usul. None has the monopoly over faith but what distiguishes one from other is their adherence to Shari principle and usul and if difference do occure sticking to the Jumhur of the past scholars of Sunni orthodoxy.. Emotive response is simply a result of unable to provide detailed thorugh and scholastic answer..
A" knows best

[Ahmad_shakeel]

one from other is their adherence to Shari principle and usul and if difference do occure sticking to the Jumhur of the past scholars of Sunni orthodoxy..
A" knows best

ok nice

lets start with wid of ahmad raza and 12 dishes
does this kind of isal sawab has any basis in hanafi fiqha?

bring me quotes from hanafi books that they talkd about this kind of isal sawab
or any scholar in history of islam did this kind of last will

[caravan of martyrs]

lol typical no wonder why breawlis always turn out in number to da masajids when food is offered. brother saad maybe you have heard this. raza khan student also made simular requests after his death but also added sweet dish adn said although iv requested sweet dish and raza hasnt this does not mean i have a higher status than him.

[muslim786]

lol typical no wonder why breawlis always turn out in number to da masajids when food is offered. brother saad maybe you have heard this. raza khan student also made simular requests after his death but also added sweet dish adn said although iv requested sweet dish and raza hasnt this does not mean i have a higher status than him.

:salam:

Whats the point in posting these things? Which the other group will either deny or explain or show a different version of? Also you see salafis and barelvis digging up stuff about the the Ulama e Deoband, which when read at face value seems shocking, clearly these things are either taken out of context or blatant mistranslations or fabrications etc.

One would do better to try to explain and prove or disprove the ideas and beliefs which may be held by the different groups rather than bringing personalities into it. Trust me on this disparaging of personalities especially dead ones is not something that is good for your soul, trust me on this brother.

Even if the following extract is accurate (verbatim) how does it prove that Maulana Raza Khan (rah) started a new religion, this just another example of people seeing what they want to see:



"Hold fast to my faith and doctrine which is apparent from my books. Hold fast to it and remain honest to it, for it is the most significant duty among the duties."


As far as I am aware, his faith was Islam and his docrtine was that of Ahle Sunnah Wal Jammah.


i should give you mutala i brealwiat as a xmas present sure you would be intrigued
No, thanks. I can probably get a signed copy from the author himself, if I wanted it. Its actually quite funny seeing this book being soo greatly promoted by people here, where in all the years I have known and gone to the Islamic Academy this book must have been only mentioned a handful of times, and that too not from the Ulama there but fellow students and worshippers. Clearly most people have better things to spend their time on.

:ws:

[caravan of martyrs]

muslim786 what i wrote is written by brealwi scholars regarding the main student of raza khan. why do u always seem to pop up when brealwis are being discussed. you dont call for unity or anything when salafis are being bashed or ulema like abu hamza abu qatadah imam awlaki shaikh faisal etc but when raza khan is being refuted you are on to it like a flash. i dont know if ur just playin devil advocate or just really oblivious to the reality of raza khan and his group. go to ynabi and see for yourself their openly propergate their kufr beleives and justify it. they are offshoot of shia. i should give you mutala i brealwiat as a xmas present sure you would be intrigued

[muslim786]

muslim786 what i wrote is written by brealwi scholars regarding the main student of raza khan. why do u always seem to pop up when brealwis are being discussed. you dont call for unity or anything when salafis are being bashed or ulema like abu hamza abu qatadah imam awlaki shaikh faisal etc but when raza khan is being refuted you are on to it like a flash. i dont know if ur just playin devil advocate or just really oblivious to the reality of raza khan and his group. go to ynabi and see for yourself their openly propergate their kufr beleives and justify it. they are offshoot of shia. i should give you mutala i brealwiat as a xmas present sure you would be intrigued

:salam:

I must agree with you that site Yanabi appears to be more shia than it is sunni, I am 100% with you on that one, a lot of Barelvis I have come across also agree to that. It seems like some sort of new age splinter group.

As for Salafis, I do think there should be unity with some of them where unity can be achieved. I used to be negative towards them, but have stopped being so negative, as I mentioned above being rude and abusive to others especially dead people is not good for ones well being. You will find no solace in it, and it will just bring you anguish.

I have spent time with and have a lot of direct experience with Barelvis and Deobandis, and the ulama I follow have emmense knowledge in this area, and yet they have little problem with either group.

I also know and am friends with very religious practising brothers who would identify themselves as Barelvi, so naturally I will be concerned when someone questions their muslimness as it were. Also in particular when they say one thing to me and I hear another thing here, I will naturally be concerned.

:ws:

[ImaanSeeker]

Assalam o alaykum,

Few points mentioned in Wasaya Sharif:



This is atleast 12 different type of dishes that Ahmad Rada Khan Barelwi mentioned few hours before his death.

Wa Alaykum Assalaam,

Jazakallah Khayr Bro.

I don't have enough knowledge to make any comment other than...wow and more wow.

[realseeker1]

:salam:

What's the purpose of finding out the last words of someone we all agree about, that he's not worth to be followed? We all should be much more concerned about what OUR last words will be...

Thanx for giving proper guidance and provoiding the right vision, no doubt every one should be more concerned about his end..... jazakallah.

[Ahmad_shakeel]

ahmad raza khan started a new religion tht has nothing to do with islam
his religion is known from his books in his words
and islam is from quran and sunnat

was there any scholar greater dan mawlana husain ahmad madani in last 100 years? no!

his stance on ahmad raza

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52565

[Awais88]

Brother Saad/ Shakeel, is it possible for this wasaya to be translated into english ?

Atleast that biryani part!

He spent his whole life eating.

[amar_labedi]

:salam:

I must agree with you that site Yanabi appears to be more shia than it is sunni, I am 100% with you on that one, a lot of Barelvis I have come across also agree to that. It seems like some sort of new age splinter group.

As for Salafis, I do think there should be unity with some of them where unity can be achieved. I used to be negative towards them, but have stopped being so negative, as I mentioned above being rude and abusive to others especially dead people is not good for ones well being. You will find no solace in it, and it will just bring you anguish.

I have spent time with and have a lot of direct experience with Barelvis and Deobandis, and the ulama I follow have emmense knowledge in this area, and yet they have little problem with either group.

I also know and am friends with very religious practising brothers who would identify themselves as Barelvi, so naturally I will be concerned when someone questions their muslimness as it were. Also in particular when they say one thing to me and I hear another thing here, I will naturally be concerned.

:ws:


Assalamalikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu


Thanks for sharing

May allah forgive us our sins and guide us to the straight path...

[Colonel_Hardstone]

http://www.defendersofislam.com/TPL/Read_Or_Listen.asp?txtser=WAS&Type=RAZ&PageIndex=2

The following will was prepared 2 hours and 17 minutes before the death of Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA), here is the an excerpt from it:

...Relatives are requested (if easily done) to provide the following two or three times weekly in Fatiha:

1) Milk Ice and buffalo milk (if possible)
2) Chicken Biryani
3) Chicken Pilau
4) Shami Kebab (even if its goat meat)
5) Parathay and Balai (Malai)
6) Urd Daal (dry and separated) with ginger and other condiments
7) Meat filled Kachorian
8) Apple water
9) Pomegranate Water
10) Soda water
11) Milk Ice (Note: Since it was mentioned twice Maulana was informed that he had already asked for it so he replied, “Write it again as Insha’Allah my Lord will first give me ice” and this is what happened i.e. a man during the burial brought Milk Ice without notice!

If one of these items can be done daily it would be OK, otherwise do what is suitable and it shouldn’t be done simply because I am saying it!...

[hope1]

Assalamu aliakum,

I don't know what to make of this thread. My question is what is the significance of asking food to be prepared? Is it to feed the poor for isale sawaab? Also is it wrong to ask fatiha to be recited for isale sawaab? Is there anything wrong is asking specific dishes to be prepared? I don't know I am really asking.

[marco100]

Assalamu aliakum,

I don't know what to make of this thread. My question is what is the significance of asking food to be prepared? Is it to feed the poor for isale sawaab? Also is it wrong to ask fatiha to be recited for isale sawaab? Is there anything wrong is asking specific dishes to be prepared? I don't know I am really asking.

:salam:

well they do say that your last few hours or minutes are decided by how you spent your life. Like the stories of some individuals who on the deathbed said nothing but the price of goods they sold as this is all they cared about during their lifetime. If this is true, then asking people to cook lavish food on certain days is maybe an indication of the habits of Maulana Saheb (ra).

It's scarey when you think about it.

Allah knows best.

[mansoormj]

Assalamu alikum,

I don't know what to make of this thread. My question is what is the significance of asking food to be prepared? Is it to feed the poor for isale sawaab? Also is it wrong to ask fatiha to be recited for isale sawaab? Is there anything wrong is asking specific dishes to be prepared? I don't know I am really asking.

Walekum salaam Bro,
Please research for

What is Bidah ?
Some examples during life of Sahaba
Ulama's stand on bidah in light of hadees

[katana]

Did the practises of khatums (4th,12th etc..) begin during the time of rida khan or before?

[Majlis Raipuri]

well they do say that your last few hours or minutes are decided by how you spent your life. Like the stories of some individuals who on the deathbed said nothing but the price of goods they sold as this is all they cared about during their lifetime. If this is true, then asking people to cook lavish food on certain days is maybe an indication of the habits of Maulana Saheb (ra).

It's scarey when you think about it.

Allah knows best.

Thats what i mean.a well known saying is
ALL IS WELL THAT ENDS WELL
its not his personal matter, he is known as IMAM,MUJADAD of a specific sect so one should know his last words.
if u can read urdu

[Majlis Raipuri]

here is the photostat from the real booklet wasaya sharif
its in urdu, due to the shortage of time the english translation is not ready yet, may be some one can.

title(published in Aagra ,india )

[Majlis Raipuri]

page 8 , 9

[Majlis Raipuri]

page 10

[Ahmad_shakeel]

he said in his last will that hamid raza, my son, should call azan 7 times at my grave

even hiz janaza was not free from bidats

he supported bidats till he was laid in the grave

and after him his followrs carried on his legacy of bidatss

Even sunnipath considers calling azan as grave as a reprehensible innovation

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=703&CATE=115

[seeker_ikb]

Is there any possibility of British support behind Ahmad Raza Khan ?

I mean, the Briitsh is a cunning nation and they need to discredit the Deoband movement in some ways.

[Ahmad_shakeel]

Is there any possibility of British support behind Ahmad Raza Khan ?

I mean, the Briitsh is a cunning nation and they need to discredit the Deoband movement in some ways.

see

Ahmed Raza Khan Beralwi and the British

http://www.4shared.com/file/165018991/609237c/Ahmad_Raza_Khan_Barelwi_and_th.html

[muhammadkaramahmed]

And saying "even Sunnipath" is absurd, Mr. Malang/Ahmed_shakeel because Faraz Rabbani has known Deobandi-slants.

His teachers include:
1) Molvi Mahmud Ashraf `Uthmani
2) Molvi Taqi `Uthmani

Faraz Rabbani is respected by Hafiz Tahir Anwar, a Deobandi leader from California

[Abu_Bilal]

I LOVE "Wasaya Shareef". :cheesygri :lol: :p

It is the best comedy novel out there in the market. :D

[abuhajira]

And saying "even Sunnipath" is absurd, Mr. Malang/Ahmed_shakeel because Faraz Rabbani has known Deobandi-slants.

His teachers include:
1) Molvi Mahmud Ashraf `Uthmani
2) Molvi Taqi `Uthmani

Faraz Rabbani is respected by Hafiz Tahir Anwar, a Deobandi leader from California

:salam:

I know of both Sh. Faraz Rabbani and Imam Tahir Anwar Saheb. The former did not entirely study under the respected teachers (but yes he did). He is from Shaami Ulama. While Imam Tahir Anwar Saheb whom I respect Alhamdulillah, although farigh from Deobandi Madrasah, has many actions which require clarifications from himself (since I do not know him personally). Being in a multi cultural environment it is entirely possible to broaden an relax the restrictions to increase the reach to the awaam.

The deobandi views are clearly outlined in Al Muhannad Alal Mufannad and other books alike, and from Ulama like Mufti Nawalur Rahman Saheb, Maulana Abdulla Kabotravi, Maulana Qasim Ingar db etc (Since you are talking of US & Canada)

Its funny that you brothers jump to bring in Sheikh Ghumari and GF Haddad etc etc but when it suits you simply shrug away sunnipath to be absurd!? SubhanAllah.

:ws:

[katana]

Why do they call ridah khan "ala hazarat"? What does that mean by the way

[suleimanibnsalim]

Actually according to a person of the Brelvi background, you have misquoted. I do not know Urdu but I trust that their translation is correct since this one sounds absurd:


K. Don’t give anything of to the rich if you do my fatiHah(1). Give it only to the poor. And that too with esteem, respect and consideration. Do not ill-treat the poor. Nothing should be done in opposition to the sunnah.

L. If it is possible by my relatives (2), let them send some of these things (to the poor) twice or thrice a week when my fatiHa is done:

Ice cream, chicken biryaani, gravy with chicken, kabaabs of goat meat, bread, pancakes, (paraatha etc,) feerini, pheris with spice, kachuris with stuffed meat, apple juice, pomegranate juice, soft drinks, ice cream.. (3)

If possible send one of these once a week, or as you may find it suitable. But remember, it should be by your own wish and convenience.

Do not deem it to be an obligation just because i have recommended it. (4)

[Ahmad_shakeel]

Actually according to a person of the Brelvi background, you have misquoted. I do not know Urdu but I trust that their translation is correct since this one sounds absurd:

can you tell us which part was mistranslateD?

can u read english?


...Relatives are requested (if easily done) to provide the following two or three times weekly in Fatiha:

1) Milk Ice and buffalo milk (if possible)
2) Chicken Biryani
3) Chicken Pilau
4) Shami Kebab (even if its goat meat)
5) Parathay and Balai (Malai)
6) Urd Daal (dry and separated) with ginger and other condiments
7) Meat filled Kachorian
8) Apple water
9) Pomegranate Water
10) Soda water
11) Milk Ice (Note: Since it was mentioned twice Maulana was informed that he had already asked for it so he replied, “Write it again as Insha’Allah my Lord will first give me ice” and this is what happened i.e. a man during the burial brought Milk Ice without notice!

If one of these items can be done daily it would be OK, otherwise do what is suitable and it shouldn’t be done simply because I am saying it!...

so beralwis are not deying that their ala hazrat remembed 12 types of his fav. dishes at his death bed..

[Cue_Jay]

Allah knows best if it is true or not but if it was do you think that brelwies will admit that Imam Ahmed Raza was wrong and spreaded bidah?
may be you can you also ask on the brelevi forum you visit when the brelwies mention Prophet's name they say Hazrat Muhammad :saw: and also with the Sahabah(ra) and other great muslim's they use Hazrat but for Imam Ahmed Raza they use Ala Hazrat which means the most high Hazrat to me that is disrespectfull they do not call the Prophet Ala Hazrat is that not more respect for the Imam not the Prophet:saw:?

When alot of people talk about Sayiddina Abu Bakr (ra) they use the title "Siddique Aazam" This applies to both deobandis and brailvis. Is this title disrespectful to Sayyiddina Ibraheem (as) because in Holy Quran Allah (swt) says "waz kur fil kitaabi Ibraheema innahu kaana siddiqan nabiyyah .

[caravan of martyrs]

When alot of people talk about Sayiddina Abu Bakr (ra) they use the title "Siddique Aazam" This applies to both deobandis and brailvis. Is this title disrespectful to Sayyiddina Ibraheem (as) because in Holy Quran Allah (swt) says "waz kur fil kitaabi Ibraheema innahu kaana siddiqan nabiyyah .

Allah (swt) uses this term for many ambiya. also ibrahim (as) has many greater names and virtues. calling abu bakr (ra) sideeq i akbar doe not make him greater than ibrahim (as). he is khalil ullah.. what greater title can one get

[Cue_Jay]

Allah (swt) uses this term for many ambiya. also ibrahim (as) has many greater names and virtues. calling abu bakr (ra) sideeq i akbar doe not make him greater than ibrahim (as). he is khalil ullah.. what greater title can one get


Sorry brother I meant to say "Siddeq e Akbar" not "Sideeq e Aazam". Yes your right. Sayyiddina Ibraheem (as) has many greater titles. So does Rasoolallah have a greater title than "hazrat?" If so, how would it be disrespectful to address Ahmed Raza (ra) as "ala Hazrat".

Waslaam.

[AbuFatimah]

is he asking for food to be brought to his grave every day? To what benefit?

Aren't people literally starving in pakistan?

[Awais88]

Actually according to a person of the Brelvi background, you have misquoted. I do not know Urdu but I trust that their translation is correct since this one sounds absurd:


A Brelvi told me that we have not posted page 18 where in it says that Ahmed Raza Khan said these things should be distributed among the poor.

Brother Ahmad Shakeel ,can you please scan and translate that page ?

[Saad]

A Brelvi told me that we have not posted page 18 where in it says that Ahmed Raza Khan said these things should be distributed among the poor.?

Assalam o alaykum,

In point 11 he talks about giving it to the poor and in point 12 he doesn't say anything about the poor. Deceptive Barelwis has added "to the poor" in brackets. 11 & 12 are two seperate points.

Point 12 deals with 12 dishes and there is no mention of these being presented to the poor. I wonder why halwa was not listed among these dishes?

Here is Barelwi translation and you can see 'to the poor' is in brackets.


If it is possible by my relatives (2), let them send some of these things (to the poor) twice or thrice a week when my fatiHa is done:

Ice cream, chicken biryaani, gravy with chicken, kabaabs of goat meat, bread, pancakes, (paraatha etc,) feerini, pheris with spice, kachuris with stuffed meat, apple juice, pomegranate juice, soft drinks, ice cream..

'To the poor' is not included in Urdu and it was added by Barelwis to save face.

Ahmad Rada mentioned milk ice twice so this is what Barelwis added in the footnote:


"Note: Since it was mentioned twice Mawlana was informed that he had already asked for it so he replied, “Write it again as Insha’Allah my Lord will first give me ice” and this is what happened i.e. a man during the burial brought Milk Ice without notice!"

Now we ask Barelwis what happened to that milk ice that was brought to his funeral. It has been 90 years but there is no answer as what happned to this milk ice. Was that milk ice burried with Ahmad Rada Khan?

Since according to Ahmad Rada, 'my Lord will first give me ice."

[muslim786]

Assalam o alaykum,

In point 11 he talks about giving it to the poor and in point 12 he doesn't say anything about the poor. Deceptive Barelwis has added "to the poor" in brackets. 11 & 12 are two seperate points.

Point 12 deals with 12 dishes and there is no mention of these being presented to the poor. I wonder why halwa was not listed among these dishes?

Here is Barelwi translation and you can see 'to the poor' is in brackets.



'To the poor' is not included in Urdu and it was added by Barelwis to save face.

Ahmad Rada mentioned milk ice twice so this is what Barelwis added in the footnote:



Now we ask Barelwis what happened to that milk ice that was brought to his funeral. It has been 90 years but there is no answer as what happned to this milk ice. Was that milk ice burried with Ahmad Rada Khan?

Since according to Ahmad Rada, 'my Lord will first give me ice."

:salam:

Ahmed Shakil here is another example of what I mean. Anyone reading the last will of Maulana Raza Khan (rah) can tell who that food was meant for and that it was not mandotary. My father and Shaykh sahib have solid grasp of Urdu. They have come across this book before and have not come to the same conclusions some here have. They are far from being Barelvi. Also anyone knows that isale sawab food is given to the poor, it goes without saying.

The fact is when it comes to barelvis ALL deobandis including the greatest of their scholars are biased due to their affiliations. This causes them to be blinded. The same can well be said for the other group, ie Barelvis.

One would not go to a catholic to find out about the beliefs of a protestant, and vice versa.

:ws:

[Ahmad_shakeel]

:salam:

Ahmed Shakil here is another example of what I mean. Anyone reading the last will of Maulana Raza Khan (rah) can tell who that food was meant for and that it was not mandotary. My father and Shaykh sahib have solid grasp of Urdu. They have come across this book before and have not come to the same conclusions some here have. They are far from being Barelvi.

:ws:

u are doin a perfect job of being a spkeperson of beralwis online...
everyone knows u only show up here to defend ur 'inocent' beralwis

u deserve a medal for that from beralviss
:cheesygri

i think ur realy biased and mazjub in love of barelawis and ahmad raza

u cal ur self fair? lol

im stil waitin for other challege i gave u in other thread
prove it wrong...or u have no realiablity..

[muslim786]

u are doin a perfect job of being a spkeperson of beralwis online...
everyone knows u only show up here to defend ur 'inocent' beralwis

u deserve a medal for that from beralviss
:cheesygri

i think ur realy biased and mazjub in love of barelawis and ahmad raza

u cal ur self fair? lol

im stil waitin for other challege i gave u in other thread
prove it wrong...or u have no realiablity..

:salam:

Can you ask Maulana Abul Hajira or any mod for my email, I would like to speak to you offline. What my affiliations and background are will become a lot clearer to you then. I never said I was fair, but try my best to be. All I am saying is learning the beliefs of a group from the opposing group is not wise. Its like learning about christianity from a Jew.

I generally have no problems with Deobandis having studied under the guidance of no other than Allamah Khalid Mahmood and directly from his affiliates such as Maulana Hafiz Aslam Rashidi at Islamic Academy, back in the early 90s. My parents sent me there knowing full well what type of mosque that was. At the same time I wouldn't say we agree with everything the deobandis hold views upon, there are many things we disagree upon. That doesn't mean there cannot be respect.

I have defended deobandis many times in real life, I am not really active(i.e don't post) on any other forum but this and occasionally on Marifah. I have many real life deobandi friends too, most of whom are not as rude or full of hate as some on here. So don't talk to me about being fair.

Deobandis are not being attacked here, so there is nothing from me to defend here in that regard.

:ws:

[abulayl]

So does Rasoolallah have a greater title than "hazrat?" If so, how would it be disrespectful to address Ahmed Raza (ra) as "ala Hazrat".

Waslaam.Generally arabs dont use the title hazrat but sayyiduna a lot more than hazrat.

We call prophets(aw) with Normal Hazrat
We call sahaba(rd) with Normal Hazrat
But barelwis call their shikh as Ala = highest Hazrat. So you cann see Highest position of hazrats(ala hazrat is ala than other normal hazrat)

[Cue_Jay]

Generally arabs dont use the title hazrat but sayyiduna a lot more than hazrat.

We call prophets(aw) with Normal Hazrat
We call sahaba(rd) with Normal Hazrat
But barelwis call their shikh as Ala = highest Hazrat. So you cann see Highest position of hazrats(ala hazrat is ala than other normal hazrat)

But in the same way Allah (swt) calls Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) Sideeq anabiyyah in the holy quran and we call Sayyiddina Abu Bakr as Sideeq e Akbar, meaning the greatest Sideeq. So does this mean Abu Bakr is a greater sideeq than a prophet? Please answer.

Wasalaam.

[abulayl]

But in the same way Allah (swt) calls Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) Sideeq anabiyyah in the holy quran and we call Sayyiddina Abu Bakr as Sideeq e Akbar, meaning the greatest Sideeq. So does this mean Abu Bakr is a greater sideeq than a prophet? Please answer.

Wasalaam.
The title siddique isnt used by everyone. But the title Hadhrat is used before every respected sheikh(prophet,sahaba,tabii,salaf and current scholar). The word "Ala" makes the hadhrat higher than other hadhrat.

we dont say siddique prophet mohammad or siddique sahaba. we mention "hadhrat" after every respected persos name. When you used the "Ala-highest" , is actuelly superlative form of "high" which means highest hadhrat than all other hadhrat.

If he would have got title like "Ala-sher", we could have understood, cause we dont call everyone "sher". But we call every respected sheikh(prophet, sahaba, tabii,salaf and current scholar) as hadhrat.

The title was given by Allah isnt used after every peoples name, But hadhrat is. So the word "ala" makes the title"hadhrat" higher than everyone. Every person who has littl eknowledge about any langauge grammatic, will understand this.

[Majlis Raipuri]

But in the same way Allah (swt) calls Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) Sideeq anabiyyah in the holy quran and we call Sayyiddina Abu Bakr as Sideeq e Akbar, meaning the greatest Sideeq. So does this mean Abu Bakr is a greater sideeq than a prophet? Please answer.

Wasalaam.

I think,
comparing a sahabi with a prophet is not appropriate because prophets were not the umma of Hazrat Muhammad Rasul allh صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم ,this matter is about the muhammadi umma i.e we are discussing titles given within this umma.wallahu alam.
every title is related to a specific incident i.e why that tiltle is given to someone.
so what is the incident or story behind this "Ala Hazrat" tilte.
by the way why they stress to say and write ahmad raza IMAM?

[Cue_Jay]

The title siddique isnt used by everyone. But the title Hadhrat is used before every respected sheikh(prophet,sahaba,tabii,salaf and current scholar). The word "Ala" makes the hadhrat higher than other hadhrat.

we dont say siddique prophet mohammad or siddique sahaba. we mention "hadhrat" after every respected persos name. When you used the "Ala-highest" , is actuelly superlative form of "high" which means highest hadhrat than all other hadhrat.

If he would have got title like "Ala-sher", we could have understood, cause we dont call everyone "sher". But we call every respected sheikh(prophet, sahaba, tabii,salaf and current scholar) as hadhrat.

The title was given by Allah isnt used after every peoples name, But hadhrat is. So the word "ala" makes the title"hadhrat" higher than everyone. Every person who has littl eknowledge about any langauge grammatic, will understand this.
Brother streetwalker,

Lets make this simple for everyone.

We have different CLASSES of people in the deen with regards to status right? For example we have the Mursaleen, Amnbiya, Sidiqeen, Shuhuda, Saaliheen etc.

Lets us take a class from the above. Lets take Siddiqeen. We know that Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) and Sayyiddina Abu Bakr (r.a) belong in this category. But of course this is just one of the ranks of Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) his highest rank being that of Khalillullah.
Anyway, my question to you dear brother is which of these two Siddeqs is greater? Is it Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) or Sayyiddina Abu Bakr (r.a)? Of course your answer will be Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s) due to his highest status of Prophethood. This means he is higher than Sayyiddina Abu Bakr (r.a) in EVERY respect. Right? Despite knowing this, why do we still call Sayyiddina Abu Bakr (r.a) As-Siddiqe Akbar? Meaning THE GREATEST SIDDIQ. Surely he is not a greater Sideeq than Sayyiddina Ibraheem (a.s).

The answer to this lies in the fact that amongst his CLASS of people, Sayyiddina Abu Bakr (r.a) is the greatest Siddeeq and he can match no Prophet (a.s).

And in the same manner, Imam Ahmad Rida Khan(r.a) is the greatest hazrat in HIS class of people and can match no Prophet (a.s)


Wasalaam.

[Cue_Jay]

I think,
comparing a sahabi with a prophet is not appropriate because prophets were not the umma of Hazrat Muhammad Rasul allh صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم ,this matter is about the muhammadi umma i.e we are discussing titles given within this umma.wallahu alam.
every title is related to a specific incident i.e why that tiltle is given to someone.so what is the incident or story behind this "Ala Hazrat" tilte.
by the way why they stress to say and write ahmad raza IMAM?

Salaam brother

When you're filling out an application and you get to the part where it says "TITLE", I suppose you normally tick the "MR" section. So what was the incident that was related to this title? What gave you the title of MR so and so?

Also, please can you provide evidence for the part highlighted in red?

[muslim786]

The title siddique isnt used by everyone. But the title Hadhrat is used before every respected sheikh(prophet,sahaba,tabii,salaf and current scholar). The word "Ala" makes the hadhrat higher than other hadhrat.

we dont say siddique prophet mohammad or siddique sahaba. we mention "hadhrat" after every respected persos name. When you used the "Ala-highest" , is actuelly superlative form of "high" which means highest hadhrat than all other hadhrat.

If he would have got title like "Ala-sher", we could have understood, cause we dont call everyone "sher". But we call every respected sheikh(prophet, sahaba, tabii,salaf and current scholar) as hadhrat.

The title was given by Allah isnt used after every peoples name, But hadhrat is. So the word "ala" makes the title"hadhrat" higher than everyone. Every person who has littl eknowledge about any langauge grammatic, will understand this.

:salam:

Brother you know that the Barelvis don't think of Imam Ahmed Raza Khan (rah) is higher in status than the Prophet's SAWAS, Sahabas (RA) or even other great Walis such as Ala Hazrat Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani (rah). So why do you try to mislead others into thinking that Barelvis have such a belief?

:ws:

[abulayl]

:salam:

Brother you know that the Barelvis don't think of Imam Ahmed Raza Khan (rah) is higher in status than the Prophet's SAWAS, Sahabas (RA) or even other great Walis such as Ala Hazrat Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani (rah). So why do you try to mislead others into thinking that Barelvis have such a belief?

:ws:
:salam: was saying what ala hadhrat means and does it fits with their aqeedah or not. But as you say, their aqeedah doesnt suits to the meaning of the title. so he also doesnt desrves to be called ala hadhrat. And giving the title "Ala" whomever they want, makes it laughble and shows ignorance about the meaning of "ala"