Dealing with our opponents with proper adab

[Rahmaniyyah]

can you please show me which deobandi on this forum has said "i hate brelvis" ?

:salam: Mawlana

1. I didn't claim anyone said "i hate brelvis". My claim was that their behaviour is implying a hatred. So it is unreasonable for your to ask me for evidence for something I did not claim. In any case the implication is valid otherwise we will not be able to prove half the things we do.

2. It is interesting to see how we are quick to assume a good opinion of our deobandi brothers but it is not the same with others. It just takes one to go onto any of these YouTube debates to see the clear hatred within both groups. It's not too difficult and it is a fact that it exists on both sides. Do you think all deobandis on this forum speak to Barelwis with good adab? We'll never change them like this and we'll be responsible - please read my post on being a cause of abuse against our Akabir. It's so funny how we cry about "how can they call our Akabir kuffar?" and then we ourselves fuel the cycle.

3. If you want to now start defending all deobandis on this forum, some quotes for you from this forum:


br seriosly why do you jump in every such thread when you have no idea what is being discused.

you come to some ones defense when you are not sure what blvs he had..

why dont you sit on the sidelines as a cheer-leader and watch..as things fold out..
it wud b apreciated

Note: The brother edited the above quote but that is not my point


u are doin a perfect job of being a spkeperson of beralwis online...
everyone knows u only show up here to defend ur 'inocent' beralwis

u deserve a medal for that from beralviss
:cheesygri

i think ur realy biased and mazjub in love of barelawis and ahmad raza

u cal ur self fair? lol


yh i agree we made our point. brealwis are copy cats and so unsuccesful they need to imitate their enemie to advance their agender. dont waste your time on them.

as for why brealwi claim to love rasooullah (saw) but not follow his sunnah. there is old english saying which fits perfectly for them. "a barking dog never bites"


lol typical no wonder why breawlis always turn out in number to da masajids when food is offered. brother saad maybe you have heard this. raza khan student also made simular requests after his death but also added sweet dish adn said although iv requested sweet dish and raza hasnt this does not mean i have a higher status than him.


well his article assumed the deobandi did make the allegations which the brealwis accused them of. the fact of the matter is there is nothing for the deoabndis to defend or clarify that druggy raza was hullucinating and cooked up stories about our akaabir. either shaikh nuh has to many brealwis around him or he due to not knowing urdu and being unable to read our books he couldnt get to the bottom of the case. however this is not to critisize him by any means he had good intentiosn and intented good.

Simple question for you Mawlana: Is the above Akhlaq befitting of "defenders of Ulama e haqq"? Yes or no? This is the way of the Akabir? It is time the 'Ulama addressed this. We easily find faults in others but when it comes to our own people we are blinded by our bias.

I think it was the sword of Rasulullah :saw: on which it was written and there is a verse in Quran similar:


"Stand for the truth even if it be against your self"

:ws:

[Rahmaniyyah]

:salam:

May Allah give us the tawfeeq to be more like our Akabir in akhlaq on top of aqaaid.

http://www.daralmahmood.org/rashid.html


Hadhrat Maulana’s Akhlaq:
Hadhrat Maulana used to be very tolerant. Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi was a contemporary of Hadhrat Maulana. In his writings, very often he would condemn Hadhrat Maulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi (Rahmatullahi Alayhi) with very rude and harsh words.

The friends and associates of Hadhrat Maulana were waiting for the order or instruction of Maulana to reply to Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan. They just waited an indication and they were prepared to give a detailed answer to Ahmad Raza Khan.

One can imagine that if he was put in the same situation where someone is attacking him, attacking his personality and his integrity as though he is the worst of creation. This was the expression of Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan’s about Hadhrat Maulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi (Rahmatullahi Alayhi) through his writings. Despite this, all Maulana would say is “Don’t respond.”

Normally, when a person condemns one, he has the fervor to show a point to that person. Thereafter he would take out all the time apply all his energies to give a word for word response to that person. But what is that for? It is only to cool the nafs down and to satiate the nafs.

Hadhrat Maulana’s approach was different. In spite of his hurt he said, “Don’t respond”. In fact he even said that by responding, you are wasting your time as well because Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan would not listen.

When one person is condemning another and he will not listen to the response, then what is the point in responding? The enemy will be even more cheerful. He will be doing all this to pierce the heart of the enemy and yet it doesn’t even prickle him.

If one only knew that all of his energies have been exerted to hurt his enemy and later he comes to know that it never even pierced him, he just took the paper and threw it in the dirt bin, how would one feel then? This is just the right thing to do and this is exactly what Hadhrat Maulana did.

He did not follow his nafs. He exercised restraint. This is a very good and beautiful example for us. At one stage, he mentioned when a person asked him permission to respond to Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan, “Instead of responding to Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan on my behalf and giving him answers, you rather sit in one corner and make zikr. That time that you will use making zikr of Almighty Allah will be more beneficial in relation to responding to Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan where you will not even benefit at all.” How appropriate an answer! How often do we abuse our time in things that do not benefit us?

Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan became ill with leprosy. Many people became happy and they felt that this was the azaab and punishment of Allah Ta’ala upon Ahmad Raza Khan for swearing at Maulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi (Rahmatullahi Alayhi). However, when Maulana heard that Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan became ill with leprosy, there were signs of sadness on his face.

One should sit back and think that if he were to hear bad news regarding his archenemy, how would he respond? Immediately he would think, very good very good. However, this was not the response of Hadhrat Maulana. Hadhrat Maulana showed signs of displeasure and disappointment on his face. He further mentioned to his friends and associates “When someone is in pain and difficulty, one shouldn’t get happy.” He even said, “Only Allah knows what our final hour and end will be.” What is the point of laughing at someone? Will one be certain that at the end he will laugh? What if his condition is worse than his enemies? It would be premature to laugh at someone even though one disagrees with that person.

[SeekerOfGuidance]

:salam:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=416029&postcount=56

A seeker complained about the Barelvi antagonism.

Shaykh Sayyid Abdush Shakoor Tirmizi* (may Allah have mercy on him) replied,

‘I make supplication (dua in this regards).

Be patient and maintain silence.

Make supplications yourself also.

Maintain complete silence by tongue and heart in this regards.

Advice your acquaintances to do the same.

Do not even discuss these controversial issues. The truth has already been established and disseminated. God-willing (inshaAllah) it is sufficient.

(Beware!) This is the era of calamities (fitna).’

Hayat e Tirmizi, page 134

* A senior khalifaof Shaykh al-Islam Mawlana Zafar Ahmad Usmani and Mufti Mohammad Shafi (may Allah have mercy on them)

[The_Light]

May Allah (Subhanahu WA Ta'alaa) free our hearts from pride and despising one another

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

We don't know for certain, only Allah Subhanahu WA Ta'alaa and Sayyidina Muhammad :saw: know best.

Stop attacking every other Muslim group or organization believing that only ourselves are on the haqq.”

Well known and sound Hadith.....

The Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad :saw: said:
"Al-Muslim man salama al-muslimoon min lisaanihi wa yaddihi wal muhaajiru man hajara maa naha-Allahu `anhu."

"The best of muslim believers is the one from whose tongue and hand muslims are secure; and the emigrate is the one who leaves what Allah has forbidden."

Narrated by Ahmad :rahma:

The Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad :saw: was asked: "Apostle of Allah! What is back- biting?" He replied:
"It is saying something about your brother which he would dislike." He was asked again: "Tell me how the matter stands if what I say about my brother is true?" He Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad :saw: replied:

"If what you say of him is true, you have slandered him [i.e. it is backbiting], and if what you say of him is not true, you have reviled him [i.e. it is calumny, a worse sin than backbiting]."

From Abu Dawud :rahma:, Kitab al-Adab (Book of Manners) no. 4856

The Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad :saw: also said:
"Whoever calls his [Muslim] brother 'kafir',
it becomes definitely true of one of the two."

Narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim :rahma:

scholar said

Meaning that if a Muslim calls his Muslim brother a disbeliever than surely one of them is a disbeliever and it is not his brother, "person B". Meaning that he (person A) is the disbeliever.

This Hadeeth has not been taken literally meaning that one enters the fold of Kufr by saying such a thing. But it certainly shows the severeness of such an act; an act that brings one to the brink of Kufr itself.

Similarly, we will hear that we are also not allowed to call a specific Kaafir by the term Kaafir. This is because we do not possess the knowledge on how he will attain death and neither do we know if he has accepted Islam within his heart. Who knows, before he dies he could become a Muslim, and Allah save us, we could reject faith. Therefore, if one cannot call someone who apparently is a Kaafir then how can we surely accuse a Muslim brother of such a grave sin and act?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1734

[The_Light]

May Allah (Subhanahu WA ta'alaa) free our hearts from pride and despising one another

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

Post based on sunnah (Hadith) was deleted

Note: Your posts were moved here and not deleted.

[Rahmaniyyah]

:salam:

I wonder how popular this thread will be given threads like the one below reach 7 pages and get locked within 24 hours

":mrgreen: Barelwi Brothers at their best at copying again" http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53167

[sudoku]

:salam:

Well even if it doesn't get popular, it's stuck so that everyone can see, and maybe think a little before posting :-)

[HaajiMahjubi]

Salaam,

It shows us really our problems and the level of ikhlas that we have. Muslims are being attacked right and left by the followers of Shaitan and what we prefer to spend time on is talking about this muslim or that muslim long after they have passed away (Allah have mercy on them all) and trying to cast doubts on whether or not they were muslim. What a said group of people we have become, what a ridiculous sight we must be to the non-muslim onlookers. I remember one Catholic priest in Canada was asked about trying to have a dialogue with Muslims and he said more or less that to try and have a dialogue or relationship with muslims was really a waste of time because no muslim agrees with the other, the muslim are extremely divided, and that trying to have some type of real relationship was almost impossible. I mean, this is how the kuffar see us and recognize us. Its as if we take some sick delight in trying to put the other person/group/understanding down. Rather, if we had iman, we would keep our mouths shut (unless we are scholars) and make du'a for the other people that Oh Allah, these are my brothers and my sisters, these are people who Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim bled for and wept for, Allah whatever wrong they have come into, take them out of it and save us from the same. We dont do that, we log into sunniforum, and just let our fingers fly,whatever comes into our heart we type it down, shameless people we are.

All I can say is that when I read the lives of our akabir, I can imagine that they would be ashamed and angered by the way we supposedly represent them. If we are on truth, all I can say is that the arrogant and 'we are better than you' attitude that we often display has turned MANY people away from our akabir and from the that truth that we supposedly are defending. Shame on us, I fear we will have ALOT to answer for on the Day of Judgement.

Just remember, if our claim is that we are acting thus sincerely to establish the truth, Allah knows what is in our hearts.

[True Life]

:salam:

I totally agree with everything above, especially brother Rahmaniyya's post. I feel very sorry and ashamed, that I was part of this childish mocking [to some extent]. May they and Allah forgive me for that.

[muslim786]

:salam:

May Allah SWT give unite us all, and give us the tawfiq to understand that as muslims we are not that different to many of the groups we claim to oppose.

:ws:

[Abu.Aliyah]

:mash: A very beneficial thread and great words of wisdom.

[Jawad_ Khan]

A very beneficial and timely thread.....

I just recently heard a wonderful saying from Hazrat Mufti Rafi Usmani Sahab Db.

would try to explain it in my words.

Hazrat said that "dont even discuss these matters when you are fully aware of the truth. Focus on yourself. Avoid such debates. Remember! when an alim debates, he debates for the purpose of islah. Even then, if his debate continues even after the objective of the debate has been achieved, then that becomes a fitnah for himself. It wont hurt the opponent, but it would certainly destroy himself"


Reading the marvelous "Aadaab e Ikhtilaaf(the manners of disagreement)" by Hazrat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi R.A would be extremely beneficial in this regard.

Plz be clear, here's not supportng the Ehle Baatil, but just emphasizing on the need to avoid needless debates which have no real purpose of islah. Baatil will remain Baatil.



.

[Alhaqq]

i wish our scholars would also deal with their opponent scholars with adab. and not publish incorrect and false info. to divide community.

[Abu.Aliyah]

"When someone criticizes or disagrees with you, a small ant of hatred and antagonism is born in your heart. If you do not squash that ant at once, it might grow into a snake, or even a dragon."
(Mathnavi - Mawlana Jalaluddin al-Rumi rahmatullah alayhi)

[Alhaqq]

:mash: A very beneficial thread and great words of wisdom.

I am so confused by debates and sutble undermining of one fiqh by another that I am lost!
A class mate of mine became muslim years ago at Lane tech school in Chicago. He was then grabbed by Turkish naqshbandis. Then, aa year later he was spending time with Hizbut tahreer and called sufis and tableghis kuffar. Then he was seen with MSA at loyola where he did his MA but went back to Christianity. I stopped seeing him after his conversion when i found him stuck in fiqh war. I met him years later when he told me all the arguments he heard and was part of between Deabandis, brailwees, tableeghis etc.

My question: I hear scholars talk about fiqh differences that they are nothing and we are one. then i hear scholars and read their books how they put down others.....where do young muslims go?

anyone?

[Rahmaniyyah]

I am so confused by debates and sutble undermining of one fiqh by another that I am lost!
A class mate of mine became muslim years ago at Lane tech school in Chicago. He was then grabbed by Turkish naqshbandis. Then, aa year later he was spending time with Hizbut tahreer and called sufis and tableghis kuffar. Then he was seen with MSA at loyola where he did his MA but went back to Christianity. I stopped seeing him after his conversion when i found him stuck in fiqh war. I met him years later when he told me all the arguments he heard and was part of between Deabandis, brailwees, tableeghis etc.

My question: I hear scholars talk about fiqh differences that they are nothing and we are one. then i hear scholars and read their books how they put down others.....where do young muslims go?

anyone?

:salam:

The differences will exist by necessity, there is much wisdom and mercy in them. The test is to unite despite the differences. I recall an incident in which Rasulullah :saw: forbade the slaying of a munafiq (hypocrite), the worst category of human creation possible, because it would appear that Muslims were fighting internally..

Young Muslims should take in the different views slowly with good manners, without becoming fanatic emotional supporters of every group they bump into. They should largely reserve judgement and observe until they are well aware of different opinions. Allah has given us intellect and a fitrah (nature) to distinguish between truth and falsehood. Every muslim should refrain from any form of "group mentality" - it is not about groups but about the objective truth. After all of this, there must remain differences and as I said this is where the test is.

:ws:

['Abdullaah]

My question: I hear scholars talk about fiqh differences that they are nothing and we are one. then i hear scholars and read their books how they put down others.....where do young muslims go?

anyone?

:salam:
I wonder the same.
There are too many double standards.
:salam:

[The Fake Shaykh]

Ibrahim ibn Abdur-Rahmaan al-Azri (Radhiallaahu Anhu) narrates that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'Straight and upright people will seek their knowledge (of Deen) from their pious predecessors. They (straight and upright people) will remove from knowledge, the distortion of the extremists, incorrect attribution of the false people, and incorrect interpretation of the ignorant ones.' (Mishkaat pg.36; Qadeemi)

In view of the above mentioned Hadith, it is the responsibility of the Ulama to preserve the pristine purity of Islam. The Arabic word used to describe that responsibility is 'yanfoon', which is derived from the Arabic root word of 'nafyun' which means to remove.

The practice of pointing out and removing faults is called criticism.

[The Fake Shaykh]

Hafiz ibn Hajar (RA) in his famous work, 'Nukhbatul Fikr Fee Mustalahi ahlil Asr' under the chapter of Jarah (criticism), outlines the rules and principles of criticism, which are extensively applied in determining the authority of a Hadith.

The Muhadditheen have criticized many narrators with the sole purpose of determining the authenticity of the Ahaadith. Criticizing them is certainly ethical in Islam and only conducive to preserving the pristine purity of Islam.

What if the Muhadditheen did not make Jarah of every narrator and criticize many who did not fulfill the criteria of being Aadil? What if every person goes against the directives of the Qur'aan and Hadith and criticize the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum)? What will be left of Islam?