Big Business, "Muslim Rap"

[haqq]

Big Business, "Muslim Rap"

When the pagan Makkan army was marching to Badr in 2 A.H., it included not only fighting men, weapons, camels, and horses, but also the means of inciting the fighters: singing-girls and musical instruments. At every rest stop along the way these cheerleaders plied their craft, spitting venom against the Muslims and promising their favors in the most enticing ways to those who would destroy them.

The army had been summoned to protect their trade caravan. When they learnt that the caravan had escaped and some of them wanted to turn back, Abu Jahl insisted on continuing: "No, I will not return to Makkah, until we have refreshed ourselves at Badr, and spent three days in feasting, drinking wine, and listening to the singing and playing of the singing-girls."

In the end, the unequal war in Badr did not turn out to be the picnic he had imagined. Abu Jahl was slain, as were many other prominent leaders of Makkah. The decisive victory at Badr by the ragtag Muslim army remains a constant source of inspiration and education. It changed the course of history, for if Muslims had been defeated, the magnificent Islamic civilization would not have seen the light of day and the jahilyah society would have continued uninterrupted.

At Badr Muslims drastically lacked the weapons of war. But it was the absence of a particular weapon of war that symbolizes the moral edge that gave them the victory. Unlike their adversaries the Muslim army did not include bands of singing-girls and musical instruments!

There is no doubt that such bands could and did stir up emotions. At Uhud, the chant of the singing girls was: "Move forward and we will embrace you. Turn back and we will abandon you." In countless pagan wars before and since, the promise has been the same. It works for the lowly beasts seeking the sensual pleasures of this world, fanning the fires of their basest emotions and bringing out the animal from within them. No wonder battlefields have historically showcased the worst of human behavior and character.

Islam came to rid the humanity of such decay. It produced soldiers who fought to establish justice and morality and sought nothing but the pleasure of Allah. Their weapons were piety, sincerity, fear of Allah, an unshakable commitment to right the wrong, and an unwavering willingness to sacrifice even their lives for it. Quite naturally it removed the filth of singing girls and musical instruments from its side of the war zone.

There were also other uses of music that Islam abolished in its revolutionary remaking of society.

While in other religions music and singing have been an integral part of worship, Islam's acts of worship do not require or permit music. What about the argument that "sacred music" can bring one to a state of ecstasy and union with God? Well, salat brings one closer to Allah. (There are historical accounts of earlier Muslims some of whom reached such a state of absorption that they could not feel even physical pain of surgery during salat.) It is very significant that this closeness is achieved without any "sacred" music.

Music has also been a means of indoctrination and glorification. Trumpets were blown to announce the arrival of His Majesty and to make people bow to his pomp and glory. If this had been a legitimate use, then the person most deserving of this honor would have been no one other than the Prophet . But to a world used to the courts of monarchs with musicians always ready to glorify them, he introduced a drastically different court. No pomp, no musicians, no music.

Historically music has also been associated with magic and superstitions. When faced with disasters or epidemics, pagan people resorted to dance and music to get rid of the evil spirits. The legend of the Pied Piper, popular in the West for centuries, attests to the belief in the magical powers of music. In Arabia singing girls called dajina (from dajana meaning cloudiness) sang to conjure rain when clouds gathered. Islam instead taught its followers to turn to Allah in salatul istasqa to pray for rain.

And of course music has also been used as a distraction and mindless entertainment. This is what Nadr ibn Harith did to keep people from paying attention to the Qur'an. He bought a singing girl and used her to "win the hearts and minds" of anyone who appeared to be leaning to Islam. He was condemned in Surah Luqman (31:6).

Islam did permit some singing and use of a simple instrument like duf (a small one-sided drum) for weddings or Eid celebrations. It permitted rajaz singing for jihad. These were exceptions to the general rule. Thus if we draw a graph of music activity in the Muslim world against time, we will find it to be at its lowest during the time of the Prophet and the Khulafa Rashidoon. Its subsequent rise during the Umayyad and Abbasid Khilafah was a result of external influences: Sassanid in Baghdad and the Byzantine in Damascus. The graph went down after the fall of Baghdad and remained low for centuries. Its latest rise came under the influence of the imperial West and began with the conquest of Egypt by Napoleon where Khadieve Ismail (ruled 1863-1876), dedicated to Europeanizing Egypt, built the first opera house in Cairo. Throughout the Muslim world the colonial rulers used gramophone and then radio to spread music far and wide. Then came the television and a plethora of other gadgets, which have made it impossible to find a music-free space anywhere. Today music playing on cell phones even invades the sanctity of the most sacred of all places --- the house of Allah. What is more, many Muslims are convinced they are serving Allah as they try to spread Islam through music. I was struck the other day by stumbling on the following entry on BBC's website: "Muslim rap is big business with annual sales in excess of $1.8bn in America alone." [6 May 2004].
To gain an insight into the colonial project, we can turn to Henry G. Farmer (1882-1965), the author of many books on Arabian music and the dean of the music-in-Islam-crusade. Here is one bit of "wisdom" from him: Islamic censure of listening to music was manufactured by the theologians of the Abbasid era who were jealous of the inordinate attention paid to music and musicians!

Those who are not convinced by this "scholarly" explanation need to do something to end the delusion and stop the profane noise.

By Khalid Baig
Posted: 16 Safar 1424, 27 March 2005
Albalagh (http://albalagh.net/food_for_thought/0080.shtml)

[abdul518ca]

:)

Most Muslims are apathetic towards giving Da'wah to non-Muslims, but the very few that do try to give Da'wah, always seem to use the ways of the Kuffar to spread Islam. Islam is Haq, Kufr is Baatil. The ways of Haq are only compatiable with the Haq, the ways of Baatil are compatible only with Baatil. There isn't the slightest correlation between the ways of Haq and Baatil. The Ways of Baatil might give THEM success, but will always result in failure for us Muslims. This can be proven just by simply looking at the amount of people who receive guidance through these raps, etc.

[Saleel]

:salam:

:jazak: - excellent article.

Someone once compared dawah through music to a plate with tasty rice on it mixed with mouldy gone-off chicken. There may be some good in it, but the corruption ultimately spoils the entire plate.

:salam:

[Sadiq]

:)

Most Muslims are apathetic towards giving Da'wah to non-Muslims, but the very few that do try to give Da'wah, always seem to use the ways of the Kuffar to spread Islam. Islam is Haq, Kufr is Baatil. The ways of Haq are only compatiable with the Haq, the ways of Baatil are compatible only with Baatil. There isn't the slightest correlation between the ways of Haq and Baatil. The Ways of Baatil might give THEM success, but will always result in failure for us Muslims. This can be proven just by simply looking at the amount of people who receive guidance through these raps, etc.

Interesting point.

A great article by a great author.

But, your points, i wish to create some discussion, if i may... Your points seem to be quite "black and white"... what about forums, the internet, leaflets, websites, they are known to be the ways of our "counterparts".. yet have been useful in spreading islam?

I am not giving a fatwa nor suggesting something allowed to be not allowed, nor something not allowed to be allowed, just wish to engage others to this interesting disccusion about rap...

many who agree to it, regard it as a "tablet" which will help them, for they need that tablet, as many are addicted to rap, please do not wash away this point of view, lightly.... whilst others tend to see it as totally wrong and see it a way to leading more bad....

interesting...

[Saleel]

:salam:

Sadiq, I think the point was utilising something which has generally been considered haraam to propogate Islam. There is Ijma that musical instruments are haraam... whereas the Ulema consider the Internet permissible (under certain conditions).

So we're comparing using a haraam to propogate Islam and using a permissible to propogate Islam... That is quite black and white I think.

:salam:

[Sadiq]

Brother saleel, whom i love for the sake of Allah...

I understand your point clearly. What i mean is, when we say "rap"... the default meaning is not allowed, what about the ones that do not contain music.

Such as Native Deen, and others... they are raps also, but not your "fully" music ones... or the new brother Shaheed, who does rap, but its called beatbox, if i am correct...

I am not saying lets use "ugly" things to promote "pure" things... that is totally wrong and also something that will not work, Allah is pure, and Loves pure things..

What i am saying is, use this tool, "rap".. isnt it just a number of words which rhyme, and appeal to us, the youth?...

As they say, we should always provide alternatives... there is no point telling a kid, dont do that, if you dont bring something else for him to do... you replace something with something else....

interesting...

{is there any grey?}

[Sadiq]

Please give your thoughts, fellow members....

what about any rappers here?

[Hypermodestmuslima]

:salam:

:jazak: - excellent article.

Someone once compared dawah through music to a plate with tasty rice on it mixed with mouldy gone-off chicken. There may be some good in it, but the corruption ultimately spoils the entire plate.

:salam:
Mouldy chicken makes u sick physcially...music is a physical (believe it or not) and spiritual ailment...

[ahsanirfan]

Mouldy chicken makes u sick physcially...music is a physical (believe it or not) and spiritual ailment...

heavy metal music causes mental diseases, anger, multiple personality disorder etc etc

dont know about the other types

[faqir]

There is Ijma that musical instruments are haraam...

:salam:

Bro, has there really ever been ijma' on this? What about the daff, for example? And don't the Shafi'i's allow a different type of drum as well [can't remember the details]? Furthermore, even if you meant excluding the daff I am still not sure if there was ijma' on this issue because had this been the case then why would some Ulema of the past have ruled to the contrary?

[Omar HH]

:salam:

Bro, has there really ever been ijma' on this? What about the daff, for example? And don't the Shafi'i's allow a different type of drum as well [can't remember the details]? Furthermore, even if you meant excluding the daff I am still not sure if there was ijma' on this issue because had this been the case then why would some Ulema of the past have ruled to the contrary?

Let's not get into this debate again.

Shaykh Ibn 'Ajiba stated there is no ijma' on musical instruments.

The views of the Deobandis may differ but personally I would avoid musical instruments.

For a reference of Shaykh Ibn 'Ajiba's statements:
Commentary of line 202 al-Mabahith al-Asliyyah

Also Imam Muhammamad ibn Ahmad Mayyarah said there was no Ijmaa' and he wrote what is considered the most reliable commentary on al-Murshid al-Muin.

Also Imam al-Jazuli.

Just make your life easier and avoid musical instruments.

[Saleel]

:salam:

:salam:

Bro, has there really ever been ijma' on this? What about the daff, for example? And don't the Shafi'i's allow a different type of drum as well [can't remember the details]? Furthermore, even if you meant excluding the daff I am still not sure if there was ijma' on this issue because had this been the case then why would some Ulema of the past have ruled to the contrary?
Bro faqir, today unfortunately many of the anasheed utilised for Islamic dawah are solely just for entertainment purposes... and there is Ijma against this.

Have a re-read of Mufti Muhammad's "Music and Singing - A Detailed Article" :insh:.

:salam:

[abdushakur]

just a point...
i think u'll find that in fiqhi terminology 'ijmaa' does not literally mean a 'total consensus of ALL ulama'....i believe it is moreso an 'overwhelming agreement of most major ulama'....and even that is something which cant really be ignored.

i hope a scholar can clarify/correct this...



------------

another point...
try not to single out 'rap' as being the music genre of the worst kind.
in fact 'rap' lyrics (im talking decent, beneficial lyrics here) without beats are probably the nearest thing most urban youths these days will get to poetry...which is part of the sunnah.

id much rather listen to muslim 'rap' without music than muslim 'pop' without music bcos the latter attracts the muslim teenage groupies whilst the former does not.

btw, i generally liked the original article posted at the top of the thread.

[Saleel]

:salam:

just a point...
i think u'll find that in fiqhi terminology 'ijmaa' does not literally mean a 'total consensus of ALL ulama'....i believe it is moreso an 'overwhelming agreement of most major ulama'....and even that is something which cant really be ignored.

i hope a scholar can clarify/correct this...
I asked Shaykh Faraz this once, and he said that not every scholar's opinion counts when dealing with Ijma. Rather, Ijma is the agreement of all the mujtahids of an age...

Wallahu Alam.

:salam:

[abdushakur]

sorted ;)

[Omar HH]

:salam:

I asked Shaykh Faraz this once, and he said that not every scholar's opinion counts when dealing with Ijma. Rather, Ijma is the agreement of all the mujtahids of an age...

Wallahu Alam.

:salam:

Yeah thats what I read as well:


> Could you please explain the position of Ijma' in the Maliki school? I have heard
> from Shafi'i sources that Ijma' is the consensus of all of the Mujtahid's of a
> particular time. How is it possible to know of all the Mujtahid's of a particular
> time? I'm not sure if there were mujtahid Imams in China, but prior to modern
> communication, it would seem difficult to get all the info.

As you note, it is impractical to say that Ijma' included each and every scholar.
There are detailed discussions of this elsewhere. However if you are looking
for one work that gathers together the agreed upon Ijma` opinions in
our din, please refer to Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdasi's al-Mughni or Ibn Juzayy
al-Kalbi's al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah.

Ijma` may be taken from the preponderance of the scholars at a particular
time (e.g., 95%).

We believe that the Malikis mostly use Imja` for referring to the Ijma` of the
people of Madinah. Since this is easily definable as: the consensus of the
scholars who lived or taught in Madinah in the first two to three centuries
of Islam (thus, the Companions, the tabi`in and the tabi` al-tabi`in are
included).

Imam Malik has said: The consensus of all of the scholars of Madinah is
a [strong] argument [and proof].

[As a side note, after the third century of Islam up until our day, many
would-be scholars claim Ijma` on subjects on which Ijma` is probably not
provable. They do this to re-enforce their opinion or the opinion of their
teachers. Ibn Qudamah's book mentioned above is probably the best one
that sorts things out.]

References:
[UF: volume 1: page 488: line(s) 6-7: {Imja`, Ijma` in the time of the Mujtahid Imams}]
[UF: volume 1: page 505: line(s) 9-12: {Ijma`, Ijma` Ahl al-Madinah}] - guidinghelper.com

[Hypermodestmuslima]

Music tends to raise the blood pressure of a person...as such long term affects of music is pretty bad...but thats of course referring to fast paced music...which doesn't restrict itself just to heavy metal music.

I have a friend of mind slightly more versed in this...and the harmful physical effects of music. Perhaps she may be able to enlighten us if she comes across this thread insha'allah.

[Omar HH]

I wonder if there is disagreement that there is ijmaa' in this issue... i.e. listening to musical instruments for entertainment purposes. Maybe this is the relied upon opinion of Eastern scholars but Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ahmad Mayyarah says in his Sharh of al-Murshid al-Muin:

"Now if [the player] has taken up musical instruments as a profession or is constantly returning to them,
there is no difference in the Maliki school that it is unlawful.... and there is disagreement about the person who plays musical
instruments not as a profession and only once in a while. Some Maliki scholars say that it is still unlawful while others say it
is mubah...."

"However, some Maliki scholars have said that it is permissible to listen to musical instruments."

[DT: volume 1: page 451: line(s) 19: {explanation of verse(s) 295-300, after first quoted stanza of poetry}}

And Shaykh Abu Qanit al-Hassani narrates the strictest opinion in the Guiding Helper, i.e. it is not allowed even to over hear musical instruments in any way except the one sided daff. Hence, from my understanding, even if driving down the street and over hearing another person's radio it would be sinful.

But in the Notes of Sources he explains this dispensation narrated by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ahmad Mayyarah's as such:

b) The common man may actively listen to instrumental music but may not himself play wind, percussion, string, or horned
instruments. [For example in this dispensation, he may play a musical CD/tape but may not play a piano keyboard.]

So this is what confuses me about the matter. Except he has noted ijmaa' that it is unlawful to listen to a non-mahram woman sing in a seductive tone and the ijmaa' (at least within the Maliki school) that it is unlawful to take up musical instruments as an occupation or habitual excercise.

He has learned 13 madhabs, so I will insha Allah ask for clarification.

But again the Guiding Helper's narrated opinion and the popular opinion in the Maliki school is that it is unlawful to even overhear musical instruments (other than the one sided duff).

[Omar HH]

Music tends to raise the blood pressure of a person...as such long term affects of music is pretty bad...but thats of course referring to fast paced music...which doesn't restrict itself just to heavy metal music.

I have a friend of mind slightly more versed in this...and the harmful physical effects of music. Perhaps she may be able to enlighten us if she comes across this thread insha'allah.

Yeah just listen to nasheed, it's not that hard.

[Omar HH]

However, those
that find difficulty with that opinion may follow opinion (b) above [that is our recommendation]. Our recommendation for them is that
they however try their best to minimize the amount of time listening to such music and search for more productive or internally
meditative exercises to engaged in. - pg. 749 Notes and Sources of the Guiding Helper

I don't think this can refer to anything other than listening to music for entertainment purposes seeing it's context.

Allahu 'Alam,

Just avoid music.

[Hypermodestmuslima]

Yeah just listen to nasheed, it's not that hard.
Its really sad...that...n/m...well whatever's happening now...I mean so many beautiful nasheeds without instruments...why do you need the instruments...

To the Nasheed artists out there, Masha'allah your nasheeds are beautiful VOICE ALONE...YOU DON"T NEED A GUITAR OR A KEYBOARD OR WHATEVER ELSE YOU WANNA PUT IN THERE...

We've already got a Muslim boy band...what are we going to have next...a Muslim punk rock band...(INSHA"ALLAH THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!)...

[haqq]

:salam:

Let us first define 'rap'.

I don't think that there is disagreement that 'rap' music (non-muslim)majority of the times echos profanity, fornication, drugs, violence, gangs and etc.

However, 'rap' is a style of rhyming that new generation finds itself attracted to. Why? It is because of the influence the media has over the Muslims.

Muslims want something that is 'cool' in their own eyes, as well as in the eyes of 'others'. Who are the 'others' and who defines 'cool'? Well, the others are mainly non-muslim and they love 'rap'.

Basically, muslims are in an inferiority complex. They want to eat like the non-muslims. They want to dress like the non-muslims. and NOW they want to 'rap' like the non-muslims.

If these are not signs of an inferiority complex, then what is?

I ask you, who are we trying to impress? I hope only Allah. And Allah is Pure and only accepts what is pure.

:salam:

[Hypermodestmuslima]

:salam:

Let us first define 'rap'.

I don't think that there is disagreement that 'rap' music (non-muslim)majority of the times echos profanity, fornication, drugs, violence, gangs and etc.

However, 'rap' is a style of rhyming that new generation finds itself attracted to. Why? It is because of the influence the media has over the Muslims.

Muslims want something that is 'cool' in their own eyes, as well as in the eyes of 'others'. Who are the 'others' and who defines 'cool'? Well, the others are mainly non-muslim and they love 'rap'.

Basically, muslims are in an inferiority complex. They want to eat like the non-muslims. They want to dress like the non-muslims. and NOW they want to 'rap' like the non-muslims.

If these are not signs of an inferiority complex, then what is?

I ask you, who are we trying to impress? I hope only Allah. And Allah is Pure and only accepts what is pure.

:salam:

True...

[salman]

Mouldy chicken makes u sick physcially...music is a physical (believe it or not) and spiritual ailment...

The Ottomans actually used it for medical purposes - but note that these were very isolated events in specific circumstances and do not serve as evidence of the permissibilty of Music, although it may serve to prove that there is no Ijma on this matter - which there is not.

Lastly, in regards to brother Haqqs comment,. if we had "rap" with no music and no profanity would that be halal or haram? It is known that people who were raised here all their lives or whove had generations of family may well respond better to these "rhymes" then to other means. Like our Br. Sadiq said, fiqh isnt merely black and white, we have to learn to identify the grey that is inbetween.

Wasalam

[haqq]

:salam:


Lastly, in regards to brother Haqqs comment,. if we had "rap" with no music and no profanity would that be halal or haram? It is known that people who were raised here all their lives or whove had generations of family may well respond better to these "rhymes" then to other means. Like our Br. Sadiq said, fiqh isnt merely black and white, we have to learn to identify the grey that is inbetween.

Wasalam

The concern here isn't about 'halaal haraam'. I am not one to give a ruling.

Forget fiqh for a moment.

Dawah is not through 'rap'! We are soo hung up with dawah that we'll imitate the kuffaar to give them or the youth dawah. Dawah is being a living example of our Nabi :saw: . Not through some 'rap'. We should not compromise our deen in the name of dawah.

:salam:

[Isa]

Well this issue is 50/50 because all rap is not bad. Hip Hop these days is disgusting because they talk about Haram. I myself grew up with rap and use to rap and now I write poetry like spoken word. Forget this 50 cent garbage all this nonsense and how people are hyped about 8 mile. We've been doing this poetry thing for 1400 years back. The Sahabha would write beautiful poetry and sometimes they would compete with eachother but not in the form of arrogance. Rap can be done without a beat it's unique actually other types of music basically needs Instruments to make it music. Hip Hop is good as long as it's positive and has a message and not be used in form of arrogance.

Let us not forget Music in general is just a pass time.

[Omar HH]

We Muslims had rap before the Americans ever dreamt about it.

What is a Qasida without music other than a rap?

Well an acapella, but no...

Seriously,

A Qasida which isn't sung is a rap.

[VeiledOne]

Interesting discussion.

I think poetry is lovely. Rhymes are nice also.
However, rap is just different. Rap has always bothered me as an individual. It is just soo disturbing. I mean no offense to anyone, but just the way it's read and "performed" is kind of scary. It seems violent and obnoxious. (sorry, just my views)
I've heard some muslims raps and they are read and "performed" in this manner. It wasn't very pleasing.

If people just read the poetry in a normal way without acting it out and screaming, I think it would be much better!

I grew up in a city that is a home of all raps. I know what raps are and when I hear of muslims imitating these same styles at muslim conventions(ISNA), it's just disturbing.

[Sunni_Student786]

Anyone who claims that there is no difference between "rap" and "poetry" is someone who is either not intimately familiar with at least one of the two aforementioned art forms, is using a VERY liberal definition for both terms, or is wishfully thinking. The way that you can tell the difference between the two is to listen to them and you'll notice a definite difference. Few, save for some of those new age types would call rap "poetry". And even if it could fall under the umbrella english term of "poetry", it certainly would not fall under the umbrella of the Arabic term known as "Sha'ir", which is commonly translated as "poetry", which is what the Sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them all) participated in.

Furthermore, even if we were to supposed that "rap" was a type of "Sha'ir" and no musical instruments were used while producing such music, I would find its use for dawah offensive because of the fact that we are adopting an "art form" from the kufaar because we are trying to gain their approval and/or to show our similarities to them. Why should we strive to impress the kufaar by adopting aspects of their culture, be it art forms, methods of organization and education, etc. which were developed in an environment, or were the product of a tradition, that was anything but Islamic?

Do you think that the fist pumping, jumping up and down, "in ya face", aggressive for the sake of being aggressive, antics that are hallmakrs of rap and heavy metal music are consistent with the adab and akhlaaq of a Muslim? Even if there are no musical instruments or profanity in the songs, thus making it seem that, to the letter, such "art forms" are "merely permitted", is the means through which the "positive" contents of message is being delivered consistent with the "spirit" of the Akhlaaq and Adab that Islam seeks to inculcate in one? Too often people only look at things from a legalistic fiqh perspective without also trying to examine what spirit it is that these fiqhi rules are trying to inculcate in us.

If you are still not convinced of the undesirability, if not the prohbition, of the use of such "art forms" for adawah, ask yourself these questions, "How often are these 'nasheeds', 'raps', etc. listened to by people for the sake of entertainment as opposed to spiritual upliftment? How often do you see those whose external actions and adab, since we cannot look into people's hearts, listening to such things?" The answer to the first, from my experience, is that most people listen to them for the sake of entertainment and the answer to the second question is that there a few such people who listen to these things. Should this not be an indication of something?

In many ways, we are simply taking things from the Kufaar and giving them an Islamic veneer. Look at the use of the Bandanas saying "La ilaha illa allah" by youth at these conventions in place of banadanas used by inner city youth who try to act like gangsters, or the way that some blair the quran through large sound systems in their cars in much the way that the kufaar blair rap or heavy metal music. What will be next, making beer from the water of Zamzam and billing it as "Islamic Spirits" because it is made from blessed water?

May Allah disgust us with the culture and ways of the kufaar and make us ennoble our lives and those of others by implementing the Sunnah of our Rasul (peace be upon him) and that which is consistent with his way of life and those of his Sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them). Amin.

[Mossy]

:salam:

Bro faqir, today unfortunately many of the anasheed utilised for Islamic dawah are solely just for entertainment purposes... and there is Ijma against this.

Have a re-read of Mufti Muhammad's "Music and Singing - A Detailed Article" :insh:.

:salam:


I asked Shaykh Faraz this once, and he said that not every scholar's opinion counts when dealing with Ijma. Rather, Ijma is the agreement of all the mujtahids of an age...

Wallahu Alam

That isn't what Mufti Muhammad stated, to quote from the article:


a) Musical instruments that are exclusively designed for entertainment and dancing, and create charm, pleasure and bliss on their own (even without the singing), such as the drum, violin, guitar, fiddle, flute, lute, mandolin, harmonium, piano, string, etc are all impermissible and unlawful (haram) to use.

[b]There is a consensus of the whole Ummah on this. [b]Since the first century, the Companions (sahaba), their followers (tabi’in), jurists (fuqaha) and the scholars have been generally unanimous on this ruling.

To be fair, he didn't use the word ijma once in that piece.

[abdushakur]

some nice comments above.

the perception of rap is a bad one, and rightfully so, bcos in the main, rap is a form of articulation that is not really poetic but more forceful and direct.
not as subtle as most forms of poetry.

i suppose i prefer to use the term 'rhyme' bcos it doesnt have the commercial, kafir connotations that 'rap' has.

someone mentioned above about 'spoken word'.
with its concious lyrics this is something which can be crudely described as 'urban poetry' or even a form of 'rap'.
this 'spoken word'/'rap with concious lyrics' i think is similar to the phenomenon of qawwali in the indo-pak subcontinent.
both 'artforms' originated amongst kuffar but were adapted by muslims and put to some use.
there are actually forms of 'rap' on SF by both bros and sisters which i find pleasant to read.[the threads are out there!]

btw, i only like qawwali if its doen without instruments! the same for other artforms.

and qawwali/rap/spoken word/rhymes/nasheeds etc etc are only small drops in the ocean of contemplation....they help to relax the mind and to make a person think differently or ponder for a while - if the words are written WELL.

true dawa is akhlaq with the accompaniment of beautifully coherent words.

[Sadiq]

Interesting points...

I quote from sidi masuds blog, i read few days back.... in regards to a this new art/groups;

"I thought about this and came to the conclusion, so what? Aren't the musical styles of Indo-Pak na'ats based on old Hindu surrs and raags, qawwalis on pre-Islamic Persian music, qasidahs on pre-Islamic signing? I don't think we should object to 786 based on their singning style..."

I have seen many making comments about, the picture people get from rap. I am not stating i am a big fan of it or anything, i love shaykh diya and his drum and base (lol).... I am just trying to give a the other side of the coin....

If i am not mistaken, Imam Ghazzali gave certain conditions for a thing to be allowed, in regards to entertainment, which music fell into.

The point i am coming from is, there are many who this appeals to, now we are not those that close doors, we rather open "other" doors..... for example, many humans have this urge to fight, now if they were to become christians, they cannot, as christianity does not have a section to cater for that, islam, in the other hand has a area were fighting is allowed and also encourages, ie. jihad. those who are more into deep, spirtuality, christianity doesnt offer that, nor does judaism.. we have tasawwuf...

Islam caters for all, within bounds.

Rap as seen as "bad"... is not a valid point to put this thing down. Its like saying, the schools in the UK are bringing out bad students, whats the point of being a teacher? We should take our "way" and spread it in different areas of life.... and rap {without music} should be a way?

Interesting points....

[abdushakur]

the reason i think some ppl dont like '786' is bcos they are like a 'muslim version' of boyzone/westlife/n-sync/some next 'boy'band...
and they unfortunately attract screaming female teenagers.
and theyve got a silly, inappropriate bandname.

if they grew sunnah beards, stood rather still and sang with less 'paaaassion'....i think views would change.

[i just relate...ive never seen these dudes perform...just read about their ISNA performances]

[ahsanirfan]

the reason i think some ppl dont like '786' is bcos they are like a 'muslim version' of boyzone/westlife/n-sync/some next 'boy'band...
and they unfortunately attract screaming female teenagers.
and theyve got a silly, inappropriate bandname.

if they grew sunnah beards, stood rather still and sang with less 'paaaassion'....i think views would change.

[i just relate...ive never seen these dudes perform...just read about their ISNA performances]

they cud be better by becoming a little more traditional .... in any case.... they're a good thing for little kids...

[salman]

:salam:



The concern here isn't about 'halaal haraam'. I am not one to give a ruling.

Forget fiqh for a moment.

Dawah is not through 'rap'! We are soo hung up with dawah that we'll imitate the kuffaar to give them or the youth dawah. Dawah is being a living example of our Nabi :saw: . Not through some 'rap'. We should not compromise our deen in the name of dawah.

:salam:

Salamu Alaikum

I think this is very much a Fiqhi issue - because it is only through a things hala"ness" that we are allowed to do it and through its haram"ness" that we are not.

If "rap" without profanity and music were Halal, then one cannot be condemned for using it, especially if it is coupled with praise for Allah, His Messenger and the Religion.

Note that I personally dislike rap, but Fiqh is not about personal dislikes. If you dont like it, dont listen to it.


I would find its use for dawah offensive because of the fact that we are adopting an "art form" from the kufaar because we are trying to gain their approval and/or to show our similarities to them.

I would completely disagree witht his because we use alot of other things that may be portrayed as "kufar art form" which is now a worn out word being thrown here and there.

The context varies, as i mentioned before, that it may very well be more efficient to use "rap" to get a few muslims into the religion who have spent their whole lives in the west. We cannot compare ourselves with them - that would be illogical. However, I do not say "rap" is the best form of Dawa - far from it - but condemning it and those who use it is unfair.

Secondly, "rap" is very much "poetry" in a different form and a different tone. This is fairly easy to recognize. Its just a cultural expresion of praise.

Wasalam

[Sadiq]

Interesting points from brother salman.

I think, people are getting two things mixed up; music and rap.

Both of these do mix and match sometimes or that is the case with western art, but what about if you seperate them.

As its been mentionshed, rap is mere words which rhyme, and it may be direct, it may be strong, but its a way of getting ones message, whatever that is.

Music is not allowed, we agree, what about rap {without music}?

Another thing i find interesting is how people seem to use "examples" of modern rap to brush it off, you cannot judge the whole of islam based on the actions of one man? you cannot say all black people are thiefs, can you?

you cannot generlise to specify, not specify to generilze- as a saying goes.

You may not like art, but what about those who like it?... shouldnt there be something to cater for them.... similar is with rap, i know some from the "hood"... and they listen to nothing but rap, now in order to get them some "good"... shouldnt "islamic" rap be given a go.

Native deen have very nice lyrics...

"One billion strong, all year long,
Prayers to Allah even in Hong Kong
Can never be wrong if we read the Qur'an
Cause it's never been changed since day one."

How is that bad?...hmmm

interesting.... if all drug dealers drive ford, it means, we are all drug dealers, or those who want to drive fords, wish to be drug dealers, or all ford drivers are drug dealers....

preception and failure to cater for is something i need to look at first then others...

[VeiledOne]

Even rap without music if its "performed" in an aggressive manner (shouting and with movements) can leave a negative effect on the listeners. [Not that I attend such sessions or watch such "performances", but I've come to know about them.] Not many ppl might realize this, but some people get affected to the extent that they might come out of that session speaking like that. (I've personally seen this happen) Ahhhh.. I'm not exactly sure how healthy that would be if sisters and even brothers begin to speak like that on a daily basis. I don't know, but it seems a bit rude.

However, the people who used to listen to nonmuslim rap with all that profanity and now listen to muslim rap with good lyics, I have to give it to them. :thumbsup:

[alibaba]

interesting.... if all drug dealers drive ford, it means, we are all drug dealers, or those who want to drive fords, wish to be drug dealers, or all ford drivers are drug dealers....

a bit off topic but..

F.O.R.D

Fast Only Rolling Downhill


heheheheh.....

[Kareem]

:salam: rap doesnt have to be aggresive and whatnot. thats what you see on tv, theres alot of stuff that tottaly diffrent, non commercial. a more sophisticated form of rap, wich actually is alot like poetry. not that this is halal, still uses instruments. but if you take out the instruments it can be a powerfull way of giving dawah to the youn'uns.

btw, wasn't poetry the main artform with the kuffar in the time of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa salam? but the muslims still used poetry.

why not do the same with rap but clean it up?

[umrah2004]

Assalamualykum,
This is for brother haqq. There are many nasheed reciters these days, who would you advise us to listen to.
Jazakhallah

[haqq]

Assalamualykum,
This is for brother haqq. There are many nasheed reciters these days, who would you advise us to listen to.
Jazakhallah

:salam:

I very rarely listen to nasheeds and those I do listen to are recited by a Mufti, which I doubt you would be able to find on the net or stores as it was recorded in private. So I wouldn't be able to recommend anyone in particular.

However, you may decide for yourself based on the following criteria:

1) Nasheed does not contain any kind of music (including duff).
2) Nasheed is not a imiation of any non-muslim or haraam songs.
3) Nasheed is not read/performed in a style of the kuffaar (i.e. Rap)
4) Nasheed content is respectable and not degrading or offensive.
5) Nasheed does not assign any attributes of Allah to Rasulullah :saw:

I would use the above as a guide when selecting the nasheeds.

:salam:

[umrah2004]

:salam:

5) Nasheed does not assign any attributes of Allah to Rasulullah :saw:

I would use the above as a guide when selecting the nasheeds.

:salam:

Assalamualykum,
Brother can you please elaberate.
Jazakhallah

[muhammadnur]

As Salaam Alaikum,

Rap with out music is talking in ryhmes, so I don't see how the question of halaal or haraam enter, that's obviously permissible.
As to the question should it be used as a method of dawah. Definitely, alhamdulillah it was a primary means that me and several of my friends embraced Islam. Though we had to go through some strange movements to get to Islam because there were no actual Muslim rappers but only pseudo muslims so most of us were pseudo muslims ourselves before we were guided to Islam.
Now, the other problem is hip hop\rap without any music may not appeal to non muslims that listen to hip hop even those who are looking for an alternative to the hip hop that's currently produced (ie gansta, sex, drug). Except the people on the spoken word set, which is growing. Because of course most spoken word artists don't use music for with their poems.
So as far as art form, more Muslims may want to approach it from the spoken word angle.
Because a "good beat" is an important part of "hip hop culture".
Now are beat machine produced sounds haraam? and what about drums? If they are allowed there can be quite a bit done with that which would appeal to conscious hip hop listeners. And of course the lyrics have to be good with nice flow.
Anyway... religious hip hop never made much ground it was more social justice rap with a sprinkle of religious thought. Which naturally would have a wider appeal and honestly is quite effective.

Muhammad-Nur

[Asif Imran]

Salaamz sister,

You are right if it means that its within the boundary of Shariah.

Wa Salam.