Various scandalous and corrupt beliefs of Twelver Shias

[TripolySunni]

Allah Humma Sale Ala Muhammad p.b.u.h wa Ala Ale Muhammad p.b.u.t.

Very beautfiul MashAllah . Understanding it for a Nasibi is impossible which is not something new. It is something like Abu Jahal l.a is trying to understand the split moon miracle of Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. It is like asking some to understand that thing which for him out of space so definitely he will get shocked, but for those who know Haq , Read Quran and follow Muhammad p.b.u.h and His blessed and Ulil Amr Ahle Bait not from the people but from very himself p.b.u.h, and know how much Allah s.w.t love this House will say only one thing and that is Allah Humma Sale Ala Muhammad p.b.u.h wa Ala Ale Muhammad p.b.u.t

Yes those who know Haq and read Lots of Quran know that 'Ali (ra) had a hobby of talking to skulls...err LOL.

(You see what i'm talking about people? it's a Madhab of Watermelons and pumpkin pies).

[bugmenot]

:ws:



The Imam replied: When he prayed al-Dhuhr he saw a skull laying on the ground so he (as) spoke to it and said: O skull, which lands do you come from?

The Skull answered him saying: I am fulan ibn fulan the king of the lands of aal fulan.

Ameer al-Mumineen (as) said: Tell me your story and tell me about your days.

So the skull started narrating its story and describing the good and the bad of its era and Ameer al-Mumineen was busy talking to this skull until the sun set, he talked to it with the language of the bible so that the Arabs wouldn't understand their conversation and when he was done talking to this skull he addressed the sun and said: "Come Back" So the Sun said: "I will Not Come Back" so he made Du'a to Allah and Allah sent 70,000 Angels with 70,000 steel chains and they tied them around the sun's neck and dragged her on her face until it returned to its bright white colour and after 'Ali (as) finished praying the sun fell back down like a star.

Yeah nice storytale. May be you could deduce some more stories from what the skull taught you.

[Sword of Haq]

[QUOTE=Sword of Haq;638787]


^^^^^^^

"when you know the narrators for this specific version at this moment are deemed unreliable".............. i have seen this hadith refuted before because it was unreliable. i cannot find it again neither locate it, so i am asking on this forum for the details.... make sense?
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not at all. All i see is contradiction to your own very 1st statement. Anyways tc i will pray for you to find it this time not written by ink which disappears and become difficult to find again.

[Sword of Haq]

Yes those who know Haq and read Lots of Quran know that 'Ali (ra) had a hobby of talking to skulls...err LOL.

(You see what i'm talking about people? it's a Madhab of Watermelons and pumpkin pies).

I feel so sorry for you. You are working hard infront of those people who already believe in what you believe :). You dont need to spend so much time in proving shia muslim's "madhab of Watermelons and pumpkin pies, they already believe this. They believe in this, their father did , their grandfather and so on. It is wise for you to go to shia forum and try to prove all this there. For me i have some similar words for you what our holy Prophet p.b.u.h told your fore fathers (if you are arab) and those are

If you put sun in my right hand and moon on my left, i will not take religion from the killers of grandson of Holy Prophet p.b.u.h

:) Thank You

[Sword of Haq]

:ws:




Yeah nice storytale. May be you could deduce some more stories from what the skull taught you.

Mr Senior member, i was never going to join this forum but few sunni friends of mine forced me to have a look. I was telling them " man that place will be full of fabrication and lies" but they insisted me and i said ok but only on 1 condition that whenever i browse that forum you guys will always be present next to me. Anyways i come to the point....you know your very this comment Mr Senior member made all 8 of my friends jump in their seats and they acknowledged that yes this forum is full of fabrication and Alhumdulliah now they have accepted my request to join what is Haq. You know why they accepted and believed in me because the post upon which u replied what not my original post but from a sunni friend of yours...but you presented it as if it was my original post.

JazakAllah and ya no offence :)

[TripolySunni]

I feel so sorry for you. You are working hard infront of those people who already believe in what you believe :). You dont need to spend so much time in proving shia muslim's "madhab of Watermelons and pumpkin pies, they already believe this. They believe in this, their father did , their grandfather and so on. It is wise for you to go to shia forum and try to prove all this there. For me i have some similar words for you what our holy Prophet p.b.u.h told your fore fathers (if you are arab) and those are

If you put sun in my right hand and moon on my left, i will not take religion from the killers of grandson of Holy Prophet p.b.u.h

:) Thank You

This narration in red is a baseless fabrication by consensus of scholars of Hadith.

[TripolySunni]

Mr Senior member, i was never going to join this forum but few sunni friends of mine forced me to have a look. I was telling them " man that place will be full of fabrication and lies" but they insisted me and i said ok but only on 1 condition that whenever i browse that forum you guys will always be present next to me. Anyways i come to the point....you know your very this comment Mr Senior member made all 8 of my friends jump in their seats and they acknowledged that yes this forum is full of fabrication and Alhumdulliah now they have accepted my request to join what is Haq. You know why they accepted and believed in me because the post upon which u replied what not my original post but from a sunni friend of yours...but you presented it as if it was my original post.

JazakAllah and ya no offence :)

If you're here to tell us your life story, please open another thread because no one is interested, this thread is academic if you notice.

[Sword of Haq]

[QUOTE=TripolySunni;636579]
Who is the true coward!?




السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته


The Shia will accuse 'Umar ibn al-Khattab (ra) of being a coward and running away from the battle of Hunain without providing evidence, they base their silly accusation on a narration of Bukhari that doesn't really serve their purpose at all as you will read:
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Very long note, my sunni friends agreed upon this being a copy paste and not something of your own. They just asked me to stick to the heading WHO IS COWARD and its relation to Umer Bin Khattab.

I dont know which hadith is authentic which is not, what is this what is that bla bla bla ....but lets see a dialogue between one father and his son. Father's name is Umar Bin Khattab and son's name is Abdullah bin Umar.

Father: I pray to Allah to die as Shaheed.

Son: Dad, you rarely participate in the battles, then how you expect this to happen?

explanation of the writer of this dialogue : But Allah heard Umar bin khattab's prayers and gave him death as a shaheed.

:)

[Sword of Haq]

If you're here to tell us your life story, please open another thread because no one is interested, this thread is academic if you notice.

Which school of academic has in its syllabus where the teachers use LOLs and hahas !!!!!? Have you ever seen any teacher of yours in a class room expressing such behavior!!!!? And why you are bothered with this comment!!!? it was not even to your post!!!!!!!! r u one of those who poke into other people's matter??? this is a very bad habit. Get rid of it soon. :)

[Sword of Haq]

This narration in red is a baseless fabrication by consensus of scholars of Hadith.

Baseless or not baseless....well if its baseless then it means i have a right to say these are my own words even then message is not if these words are right or wrong...i hope you got it what i meant to say...anyways my purpose is done and i dont need to be here anymore. My friends are satisfied already. :) best of luck in proving shias watermelon and pumpkin. :)

[TripolySunni]

Baseless or not baseless....well if its baseless then it means i have a right to say these are my own words even then message is not if these words are right or wrong...i hope you got it what i meant to say...anyways my purpose is done and i dont need to be here anymore. My friends are satisfied already. :) best of luck in proving shias watermelon and pumpkin. :)

Finally you're leaving, great, please make sure to congratulate your Eight Sunni Friends who just converted to Twelverism, bye bye.

[Sword of Haq]

Before i leave, one message for you, answers to such replies you will not find to copy and paste. So dont be sad about it. I will pray Allah to keep you as u r i hope u do the same for me.


Bye

[TripolySunni]

NOTE: for those who are not familiar with what Twelver Shi'ites are all about, This guy above ^ he was using what we call "Taqiyyah", this is because lying to other Muslims is Halal according to them so he doesn't mind lying to us and firing a couple of Tomahawk missiles while he claims he's got EIGHT SUNNI FRIENDS sitting right next to him and that they all converted to Shiism after reading this thread ^_^

May Allah keep us on a steady path.

[Sword of Haq]

NOTE: for those who are not familiar with what Twelver Shi'ites are all about, This guy above ^ he was using what we call "Taqiyyah", this is because lying to other Muslims is Halal according to them so he doesn't mind lying to us and firing a couple of Tomahawk missiles while he claims he's got EIGHT SUNNI FRIENDS sitting right next to him and that they all converted to Shiism after reading this thread ^_^

May Allah keep us on a steady path.

In the name of Allah the most merciful.

I read your comment over notification in my mail inbox. As i said my purpose on this forum was done and 8 of my school friends (5 sunnis and 3 wahabi) agreed with me. Unfortunately all 8 of them are not here at this moment but 2 are present and the following lines one of them is going to type and not me.

"Salaam to all of my sunni brothers. Alhumdullilah and i am on the path of Allah, Rasool s.a.w and his rightly guided caliphs. My friend Sword of Haq never said earlier that all 8 of his friends converted to shia Islam. What he said was all 8 of us agreed that this forum is full of lie and fabrications. Please beware of these hypocrites jews among us who promote hate in muslim ummah with their false propaganda. Please dont become blind and read carefully what is being said. JazakAllah".

[Sword of Haq]

Finally you're leaving, great, please make sure to congratulate your Eight Sunni Friends who just converted to Twelverism, bye bye.

friendly teaser...........you must be very happy innit!!? have a chilled glass of water...and keep on proving shias whatever you like infront of i wonder who!!! :)

Masalaama

[Sword of Haq]

NOTE: for those who are not familiar with what Twelver Shi'ites are all about, This guy above ^ he was using what we call "Taqiyyah", this is because lying to other Muslims is Halal according to them so he doesn't mind lying to us and firing a couple of Tomahawk missiles while he claims he's got EIGHT SUNNI FRIENDS sitting right next to him and that they all converted to Shiism after reading this thread ^_^

May Allah keep us on a steady path.

and brother Sword's original text was this , have a look

Originally Posted by Sword of Haq
Mr Senior member, i was never going to join this forum but few sunni friends of mine forced me to have a look. I was telling them " man that place will be full of fabrication and lies" but they insisted me and i said ok but only on 1 condition that whenever i browse that forum you guys will always be present next to me. Anyways i come to the point....you know your very this comment Mr Senior member made all 8 of my friends jump in their seats and they acknowledged that yes this forum is full of fabrication and Alhumdulliah now they have accepted my request to join what is Haq. You know why they accepted and believed in me because the post upon which u replied what not my original post but from a sunni friend of yours...but you presented it as if it was my original post.

JazakAllah and ya no offence

and if you translate they have joined Haq as they joined shiaism , then thank you very much. I love you :) I love you and I love you for considering Haq as shiaism :)

[muslim011]

Finally you're leaving, great, please make sure to congratulate your Eight Sunni Friends who just converted to Twelverism, bye bye.

:salam:
Brother Tripolysunni you seem to have many enemies amongst the tyre-headed type.
May ALLAH keep You safe.
I have benefited from your research alot and many others would have :insh:

:ws:

[TripolySunni]

:salam:
Brother Tripolysunni you seem to have many enemies amongst the tyre-headed type.
May ALLAH keep You safe.
I have benefited from your research alot and many others would have :insh:

:ws:

He's still lying btw Haha! I swear this is just getting too ridiculous, it's 5 Sunnies and 3 Wahhabies LOL, OMG This is too much! All of his friends make the same grammatical mistakes LMAO!

Sword of Hack and his 8 Friends (5 sunnies 3 Wahhabies) all have consensus this forum is full of lies and fabrications, Oh well I guess we're gonna have to shut this forum down now ;)

(His friends are probably jumping in their seats now, Oi! Wear safety belts guys!)

[Sword of Haq]

He's still lying btw Haha! I swear this is just getting too ridiculous, it's 5 Sunnies and 3 Wahhabies LOL, OMG This is too much! All of his friends make the same grammatical mistakes LMAO!

Sword of Hack and his 8 Friends (5 sunnies 3 Wahhabies) all have consensus this forum is full of lies and fabrications, Oh well I guess we're gonna have to shut this forum down now ;)

(His friends are probably jumping in their seats now, Oi! Wear safety belts guys!)



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:) I shall not say anything bad about you as you really made my day by translating HAQ as twelver shias.
About same grammatical mistakes , wow you are very genius, again i appreciate the talent you have. Bravo. But little explanation, don't you think all 8 of them and 9th me belong to same school where english is not first language can have little bit of similarity ?? I saw grammatical mistakes even in your copy paste material!!! but is this English classroom??



bold letters in your statement gave me another believe about you and that is in sunni schools their students and teachers use in their academical and educational discussions such gestures and then they blame it one Prophet p.b.u.h by calling them follower of Sunnah.

Astagfrullah.
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Originally Posted by TripolySunni
If you're here to tell us your life story, please open another thread because no one is interested, this thread is academic if you notice.
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Thanks for the seat belt advice, it is must in decent and educated world for safety but i wonder why it is something to tease about :) take care my love

[TripolySunni]

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:) I shall not say anything bad about you as you really made my day by translating HAQ as twelver shias.
About same grammatical mistakes , wow you are very genius, again i appreciate the talent you have. Bravo. But little explanation, don't you think all 8 of them and 9th me belong to same school where english is not first language can have little bit of similarity ?? I saw grammatical mistakes even in your copy paste material!!! but is this English classroom??

bold letters in your statement gave me another believe about you and that is in sunni schools their students and teachers use in their academical and educational discussions such gestures and then they blame it one Prophet p.b.u.h by calling them follower of Sunnah.

Astagfrullah.

Thanks for the seat belt advice, it is must in decent and educated world for safety but i wonder why it is something to tease about :) take care my love

Hey are any of your friends sitting next to you right now? I don't care whether they are the 5 sunnies or the 3 Wahhabies I want to ask them a quick question first one being "What their Madhab is".

[Sword of Haq]

He's still lying btw Haha! I swear this is just getting too ridiculous, it's 5 Sunnies and 3 Wahhabies LOL, OMG This is too much! All of his friends make the same grammatical mistakes LMAO!

Sword of Hack and his 8 Friends (5 sunnies 3 Wahhabies) all have consensus this forum is full of lies and fabrications, Oh well I guess we're gonna have to shut this forum down now ;)

(His friends are probably jumping in their seats now, Oi! Wear safety belts guys!)

As i am in love with you therefore i give you one friendly advice before saying final goodbye. Am i a Shia Imam!!!! so stop wasting your time proving me wrong and keep it up with watermelon and pumpkin business :)

[TripolySunni]

As i am in love with you therefore i give you one friendly advice before saying final goodbye. I am Shia Imam so stop wasting your time proving me wrong and keep it up with watermelon and pumpkin business :)

What You're the Mahdi!? Omg!

So Where are those friends I want to question them if you don't mind.

[amr123]

As i am in love with you therefore i give you one friendly advice before saying final goodbye. I am Shia Imam so stop wasting your time proving me wrong and keep it up with watermelon and pumpkin business :)

So you want to start pumpkin business too?

[Sword of Haq]

Hey are any of your friends sitting next to you right now? I don't care whether they are the 5 sunnies or the 3 Wahhabies I want to ask them a quick question first one being "What their Madhab is".

No not at the moment, otherwise i was never gonna be on the forum. I am just spending my late night hours reading your different posts. But just send me reminder day after 2morrow, i will log in back here when any of them is present.

Anything for you my love :)

[Sword of Haq]

What You're the Mahdi!? Omg!

So Where are those friends I want to question them if you don't mind.

my love i cudnt put in the !!!!! or i should i have typed it as Am i a shia Imam. :)

[Sword of Haq]

So you want to start pumpkin business too?

Another believe i am taking from this forum after reading this.

Sunnis when they see any person alone they attack by following the animal's way of attacking i.e not 1 on 1 but more than 1 on 1 and then they say we are following Sunnah

Astagfrullah :)

[amr123]

Blah Blah Blah



????


Blah Blah Blah



?????



Blah Blah Blah


Zzzzzzzz....

[TripolySunni]

????




?????




Zzzzzzzz....

I know he doesn't make any sense LOL, but we can't debate him he's the awaited Shia Imam he will smite us with his sword of Haq ^_^

Ya Potato sack Madad!

[Sword of Haq]

I know he doesn't make any sense LOL, but we can't debate him he's the awaited Shia Imam he will smite us with his sword of Haq ^_^

Ya Potato sack Madad!........

Another believe i am taking from this forum. As shia muslims says Ya Ali a.s Madad , the sunnis they ask help from Potato Sack and then they say we are following sunnah :)
Astagfrullah :)

[Sword of Haq]

I know he doesn't make any sense LOL, but we can't debate him he's the awaited Shia Imam he will smite us with his sword of Haq ^_^

Ya Potato sack Madad!

OMG grammatical mistake by english professor

[Sword of Haq]

Are you 1 of those 8 friends of mine and just playing hide n seek :)

[Sword of Haq]

Btw my love i would like to ask you one thing. Can i open thread on this forum with similar title but about Salafi/Wahabis!!!!? Is it allowed?

[Sword of Haq]

how ignorant can one be

can the moderators and sunni brother plesae forgive me for what i am about to show this rawaafid. this is from shia chat webstite (MADE AND CONTROLLED BY SHIA) regarding umar (ra)

umar was a homosexual, thieving, coward, alcoholic, tyrant murdering liar innovator enemy of bibi paak (sa)

but apart from that, top bloke

http://www.*************/forum/index.php?/topic/234982009-hazrat-umar-ra

many more comments like that can be read on there by SHIA. so dont come here telling us shia dont curse sahaba. as for the wives i am too ashmed to even paste what they say regarding aisha (ra) and hafsa (ra)

Problem is debates cannot be done over internet forums. Voice chat debates are still acceptable but these kind of forums are not proper. Reason is both parties have excess to vast number of websites and one person vs one person is like 1000000 scholars vs 10000000 scholars . It is something like Batman fighting with Spider man. I gave resemblance to super heroes because where 1 scholar spends his whole life in research contrarily here even a kid is more powerful than 10000 scholars because everything is just a click away. So these super heroes never end up anywhere. :)

[Sword of Haq]

regarding the Harun PBUh from Moses PBUH:

Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5915:

This hadith has been narrated. on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camel. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left him behind in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'All said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We have been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.


Please elaborate as to how exactly do these fadhail/virtues of Sayyiduna Ali indicate that he was the unquestionable successor to the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم?


I just love the way the Shiites try so desperately to spin this account in their favor. Here are a couple of things that are wrong with your logic:

1. Harun عليه السلام was given the mantle of custodian and caretaker of the Bani Israel until the eventual return of Musa عليه السلام from the Mount Toor. And it was in this capacity that the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم referred to Hadhrat Ali as akin to Harun عليه السلام, for he too was charged with the responsibility of looking after those left behind until the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم returned from his expedition to Tabuk. Furthermore, Harun عليه السلام never assumed the absolute authority of successor to rule in the absence of Musa عليه السلام, and was in fact that is why he didn't intervene when the Bani Isra'il started their worship of the golden calf -

(Moses) said: "O Aaron! what kept thee back, when thou sawest them going wrong? From following me? Didst thou then disobey my order? (Aaron) replied: "O son of my mother! Seize (me) not by my beard nor by (the hair of) my head! Truly I feared lest thou shouldst say, 'Thou has caused a division among the children of Israel, and thou didst not respect my word!'" (20:92-94)

2. Shiites also fail to take into consideration that Hadhrat Ali was made the caretaker of the Ummah not only in the absence of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم, but also in the absence of Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar رضي الله عنهم. This shows that the narration in question has no relevance to the Shiite claim of the caliphate rightfully belonging to Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه over Siddiqe-Akbar.

3. If the appointment of one as leader of the people by the Messenger of Allah was sufficient enough proof for the position of Caliphate, then why do Shiites ignore that Hadhrat Abu Bakr Siddiq رضي الله عنه was nominated as Ameer-ul-Hajj by the Messenger of Allah ? And even when Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه was sent as a minister to make the formal announcement in Makkah and was asked by Siddiqe-Akbar "امبرٌ ام مأمور " (Are you sent as Amir or Ma'mur/follower) to which Hadhrat Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه replied "بل مأمور" (Indeed, as a follower). What answer do Shiites have to the fact that at the time of Hijrah, the Messenger of Allah appointed Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه to stay in his place to return the possessions of the people of Makkah, but it was Hadhrat Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه who Allah decreed to accompany the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم. Why has no Shiite ever been able to explain why did the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم appointed Hadhrat Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه as the Imam to lead the prayers on his musalla and not Hadhrat Ali?

4. If you are using verses from the Qur'an to state the similarities between Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه and Harun عليه السلام in spite of clear differences between the two. First of all, Harun عليه السلام died during the lifetime of Musa عليه السلام so he was never a successor. Secondly, on one hand you say Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه did not fight for his right for the Caliphate because of fear that it would create a division within the Ummah, but you on the other hand are doing the exact opposite. Interestingly enough, you are also making the veiled implication that (معاذ الله) Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه was too weak or too timid to fight for what he believed was his Divine Right that you are doing it for him now in spite of his reputation for fearlessness and being called 'Haidere-Karraar'.

Allah huma Sale Ala Muhammad p.b.u.h wa Ala Ale Muhammad p.b.u.h. My love it is really nice to hear fadail of Imam Ali a.s from your typing. :) SubhanAllah

[Sword of Haq]

Hey are any of your friends sitting next to you right now? I don't care whether they are the 5 sunnies or the 3 Wahhabies I want to ask them a quick question first one being "What their Madhab is".

btw one of them labelled you kafir...i dont know why but he said Shafii went crazy towards last day of his life and started his own religion. Is this true!!!?

[TripolySunni]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته


The Wali al-Faqih of the Shia known as Grand Ayatullah al-Khaminaee says that the saying: "Ali is not God but is no less than a God" is not Shirk.

http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/13/39/41/05/uouo_u15.jpg



س 330: هناك فرقة تسمى (علي اللهية) ويقولون أن عليا عليه السلام ليس إلها ولكنه ليس بأقل من الإله فما هو حكم هؤلاء؟
ج: إذا كانوا غير قائلين بشريك لله الواحد المنان المتعال، فليس حكمهم كحكم المشرك.
اجوبة الاستفتاءات - الخامنئي - الجزء الأول العبادات - دار النبأ للنشر والتوزيع - ص 99

The book "Ajwibat al-Istiftaat" vol-1 page 99:

Question 325: There is a group called " 'Ali Ilahiyyah " and they say that 'Ali PBUH is not God but is no less than a God, so what is their ruling ?

Answer: If they do not say that Allah has a partner then their ruling is not that of Mushriks.

- end -

[muslim011]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNkhrnj9JN4&feature=related

[Sword of Haq]

[QUOTE=TripolySunni;474298]السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

I honestly had no Idea You guys would like this so much, but Since you do, I'll just throw this one in for The Twelvers who might just be passing by so that they can be sure that this Twelver Religion is very lenient when it comes to SEX and very strict when it comes to worship and Friday prayers and praying in congregation ect...

Ayatullah Muhamad Sadiq Al Husseini al Roohani:


س: هل يجوز الزواج من عدة نساء زواج متعة في آن واحد و ان اقوم بمعاشرتهن في نفس الوقت؟

ج: باسمه جلّت اسمائه
يجوز الزواج من عدة نساء، و يجوز معاشرتهن في نفس الوقت.

Question: Is it possible to marry multiple women at the same time as Mutah Marriage and that I sleep with all of them at the same time?

Answer: Bism allah al rahman al Raheem,
It is permissible to marry several women and to sleep with all of them at the same time.

-end-

Link:
http://www.imamrohani.com/fatwa-ar/viewtopic.php?p=4948&sid=5ecbf26064605f2fea943159c7e2a571

Link:
http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/FATWA_SEX.jpg

NEW OFFER!!! order two Fatwas from the Dude with the Dark hat and get a third Fatwa FREE!

Al Salam Aleykum,[/QUOT
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Thank you so much my love, you are so helpful. R u from Qom ?

[Sword of Haq]

Answer: If they do not say that Allah has a partner then their ruling is not that of Mushriks.

- end -[/QUOTE]

MashAllah what a deep and precise answer.

[TripolySunni]

Shia Hadith contradicts their belief about Fatima's (as) exaltation from encountering menstrual blood


The Shia say that Fatima (as) is so divine that she does not discharge blood as a result of child-birth or menstruation. Here is a SAHIH Shia Hadith from al-Kafi 4/136 that in which their infallible directly contradicts this belief and destroys it:




بَابُ صَوْمِ الْحَائِضِ وَالْمُسْتَحَاضَةِ

أَبُو عَلِيٍّ الْأَشْعَرِيُّ عَنْمُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مَهْزِيَارَ قَالَ كَتَبْتُإِلَيْهِ ( عليه السلام ) امْرَأَةٌ طَهُرَتْ مِنْ حَيْضِهَا أَوْمِنْ دَمِ نِفَاسِهَا فِي أَوَّلِ يَوْمٍ مِنْ شَهْرِ رَمَضَانَ ثُمَّاسْتَحَاضَتْ فَصَلَّتْ وَصَامَتْ شَهْرَ رَمَضَانَ كُلَّهُ مِنْ غَيْرِ أَنْتَعْمَلَ مَا تَعْمَلُ الْمُسْتَحَاضَةُ مِنَ الْغُسْلِ لِكُلِّ صَلَاتَيْنِفَهَلْ يَجُوزُ صَوْمُهَا وَ صَلَاتُهَا أَمْ لَا فَكَتَبَ ( عليه السلام ) تَقْضِي صَوْمَهَا وَ لَا تَقْضِي صَلَاتَهَا إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله ) كَانَ يَأْمُرُ فَاطِمَةَ صَلَوَاتُاللَّهِ عَلَيْهَا وَ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ مِنْ نِسَائِهِ بِذَلِكَ

Abu 'Ali al-Asha'ari from Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from 'Ali ibn Mehzayar: I wrote to him(Imam) may peace be upon him: A woman was purified from her Haydh(bleeding in Menstruation) on the first day of the month of Ramadhan then she had Istihadah(False Menstruation) and she fasted and prayed during the entire month of Ramadhan without doing Ghusl(purifying her body) before every prayer so are her prayers and her fasting accepted? He peace be upon him wrote back: She must repeat her Siyam(Fasting) but not her Salat(prayer), the Prophet SAWS used to order Fatima peace be upon her and the believing women to do this.

Al-Majlisi says SAHIH in Miraat al-'Uqool 16/340.

و السلام عليكم

[Sword of Haq]

My love full of knowledge and a light of Ahle Sunnah you are helping me alot in becoming what i never thought of. I have few questions, help me please. So far you have presented soooo many scandalous and corrupt beliefs and many people read them and understood them. Now it is time to help people understand so things about a Madhab to which you are inviting . My first question is :

It is an established fact that all things are recognised by their name, even Allah (swt) first taught names to the father of Mankind Adam (as). Your sect also has names such as Sunni, Ahl' ul Sunnah or Ahl'ul Sunnah wa al Jamaah. Direct us towards any such verse of the Qur'an wherein any of these names have been indicated.

[TripolySunni]

Did the Shia believe in the infallibility of their Imams?

The renowned Shia scholar of Hadith al-Shaheed al-Thani answers in his book "Haqaeq al-Iman" pages 150-152:




حقائق الإيمان - الشهيد الثاني - ص 150 - 151
فهل يعتبر في تحقق الإيمان أم يكفي اعتقاد إمامتهم ووجوب طاعتهم في الجملة ؟ فيه الوجهان السابقان في النبوة . ويمكن ترجيح الأول ، بأن الذي دل على ثبوت إمامتهم دل على جميع ما ذكرناه خصوصا العصمة ، لثبوتها بالعقل والنقل . وليس بعيدا الاكتفاء بالأخير ، علي ما يظهر من حال رواتهم ومعاصريهم من شيعتهم في أحاديثهم عليهم السلام ، فإن كثيرا منهم ما كانوا يعتقدون عصمتهم لخفائها عليهم ، بل كانوا يعتقدون أنهم علماء أبرار ، يعرف ذلك من تتبع سيرهم وأحاديثهم وفي كتاب أبي عمرو الكشي ( 1 ) رحمه الله جملة مطلعة على ذلك ، مع أن المعلوم من سيرتهم عليهم السلام مع هؤلاء أنهم كانوا حاكمين بإيمانهم بل عدالتهم . وهل يكفي في كل شخص اعتقاد إمامة من مضى منهم عليهم السلام إلى إمام زمانه وإن لم يعتقد إمامة الأئمة الباقين الذين وجدوا وانتهت الإمامة إليهم بعد انقراضه الظاهر ذلك ، وفي كثير من كتب الأحاديث والرجال ما يشعر بذلك ، فليطلب منهما . والدليل إنما يدل على وجوب اعتقاد إمامة ( 2 ) الاثنا عشر بالنظر إلى من تأخر زمانه عن تمام عددهم عليهم السلام ، فليتأمل ، كيف ؟ ! وقد كانوا في كل زمان مخفيين مشردين منزوين ملتزمين للتقية في أكثر أو قاتهم ، لا يستطيعون إخبار خواصهم بإمامتهم فضلا عن غيرهم ، يشهد بذلك كتب الرجال والأحاديث أيضا ، وحينئذ فلا بد من الاكتفاء بما ذكرناه ،والالزام خروج أكثر شيعتهم عن الإيمان ، وهو باطل


The renowned Shia scholar of Hadith al-Shaheed al-Thani says in his book "Haqaeq al-Iman" pages 150-152:

"What is apparent from the condition of their Shia who lived in their time and narrated from them the Ahadeeth may peace be upon them, that MANY OF THEM did not believe in their infallibility because it was hidden from them but they used to believe that the Imams were pious obedient scholars, anyone who follows their stories and narrations knows this"

after a few lines he says:

"How!? they were hidden and isolated at all times and they practised taqiyyah most of the time, so they couldn't tell even their closest followers about their Imamah let alone the others, the books of Rijal and the Ahadeeth are proof of this"


Shia scholar al-Mamaqani says in his book "Tanqeeh al-Maqal" volume 6 page 340:



قال المامقاني في كتابه ( تنقيح المقال ) 6 / 340 : لكن قول ابن الغضائري يوهم قبول روايته تارة ، ولا يبعد أنّهم كانوا يقبلون رواياته الخالية من الغلوّ ويتركون ما كان فيه غلوّ. وحيث إنّ الغلوّ عند القدماء ينسب إلى الرجل بأدنى شيء ، بل أكثر ما نعتقده الآن في أهل البيت عليهم السلام كانوا يومئذ يسمّونه غلوّاً . أ.هــ


"Our predecessors used to ascribe Ghulu to the smallest things, in fact the majority of the things we believe in today regarding Ahlul-Bayt peace be upon them used to be called Ghulu by our predecessors."


http://upload.traidnt.net/upfiles/yuO38894.jpg

[TripolySunni]

My love full of knowledge and a light of Ahle Sunnah you are helping me alot in becoming what i never thought of. I have few questions, help me please. So far you have presented soooo many scandalous and corrupt beliefs and many people read them and understood them. Now it is time to help people understand so things about a Madhab to which you are inviting . My first question is :

It is an established fact that all things are recognised by their name, even Allah (swt) first taught names to the father of Mankind Adam (as). Your sect also has names such as Sunni, Ahl' ul Sunnah or Ahl'ul Sunnah wa al Jamaah. Direct us towards any such verse of the Qur'an wherein any of these names have been indicated.

Out of Topic, Open another thread.

[Sword of Haq]

Shia Hadith contradicts their belief about Fatima's (as) exaltation from encountering menstrual blood


The Shia say that Fatima (as) is so divine that she does not discharge blood as a result of child-birth or menstruation. Here is a SAHIH Shia Hadith from al-Kafi 4/136 that in which their infallible directly contradicts this belief and destroys it:



Abu 'Ali al-Asha'ari from Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from 'Ali ibn Mehzayar: I wrote to him(Imam) may peace be upon him: A woman was purified from her Haydh(bleeding in Menstruation) on the first day of the month of Ramadhan then she had Istihadah(False Menstruation) and she fasted and prayed during the entire month of Ramadhan without doing Ghusl(purifying her body) before every prayer so are her prayers and her fasting accepted? He peace be upon him wrote back: She must repeat her Siyam(Fasting) but not her Salat(prayer), the Prophet SAWS used to order Fatima peace be upon her and the believing women to do this.

Al-Majlisi says SAHIH in Miraat al-'Uqool 16/340.

و السلام عليكم

Thank you my love for showing me the contradiction of this hadith to shia belief. From now on i will reject this hadith which is contradicting . Thanks again

[Sword of Haq]

Out of Topic, Open another thread.

Come on my love don't be like those cruel fathers who beat their children and then shout dont cry :)
If i want to learn what i am going to eat , you are pushing me away !!!!!

[TripolySunni]

Thank you my love for showing me the contradiction of this hadith to shia belief. From now on i will reject this hadith which is contradicting . Thanks again

But the Hadith is SAHIH so you're contradicting the words of your own Imam which makes you a Kaffir.

[Sword of Haq]

Did the Shia believe in the infallibility of their Imams?

The renowned Shia scholar of Hadith al-Shaheed al-Thani answers in his book "Haqaeq al-Iman" pages 150-152:




The renowned Shia scholar of Hadith al-Shaheed al-Thani says in his book "Haqaeq al-Iman" pages 150-152:

"What is apparent from the condition of their Shia who lived in their time and narrated from them the Ahadeeth may peace be upon them, that MANY OF THEM did not believe in their infallibility because it was hidden from them but they used to believe that the Imams were pious obedient scholars, anyone who follows their stories and narrations knows this"

after a few lines he says:

"How!? they were hidden and isolated at all times and they practised taqiyyah most of the time, so they couldn't tell even their closest followers about their Imamah let alone the others, the books of Rijal and the Ahadeeth are proof of this"


Shia scholar al-Mamaqani says in his book "Tanqeeh al-Maqal" volume 6 page 340:



"Our predecessors used to ascribe Ghulu to the smallest things, in fact the majority of the things we believe in today regarding Ahlul-Bayt peace be upon them used to be called Ghulu by our predecessors."


http://upload.traidnt.net/upfiles/yuO38894.jpg

looooooooooooool http://gift2shias.com/category/exposing-shia-lies/ why dont you just type the link instead of copy pasting!!!!

[Sword of Haq]

But the Hadith is SAHIH so you're contradicting the words of your own Imam which makes you a Kaffir.

Mr copy paster , my love, my sweet heart , you take shia hadiths from anti shia sites, then being sunni you label them sahih hadith.....should i laugh on your ignorance ??? but keep it up i am enjoying this pumpkin business :)

[TripolySunni]

looooooooooooool http://gift2shias.com/category/exposing-shia-lies/ why dont you just type the link instead of copy pasting!!!!

The article was posted on Gift2Shias on July 18, 2011 at 9:36 pm:
http://gift2shias.com/2011/07/18/did-the-shia-believe-in-the-infallibility-of-their-imams/

But it was posted here by me on 09 July 2011 - 02:54 AM.
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=14258

So the gift2Shias took it from me as they posted it nine days after I did.

[Sword of Haq]

But the Hadith is SAHIH so you're contradicting the words of your own Imam which makes you a Kaffir.

and my love copy paster why u failed to copy paste all !!! should i paste the rest ?? ok my love i help u have a look

Sh. Saduq also narrated this report in his books:

From Man La Yahdarhu Al-Faqeeh:

وروي عن علي بن مهزيار قال: كتبت إليه عليه السلام ” امرأة طهرت
من حيضها أو دم نفاسها في أول يوم من شهر رمضان ثم استحاضت فصلت وصامت شهر رمضان كله من غير أن تعمل ما تعمله المستحاضة من الغسل لكل صلاتين هل يجوز صومها وصلاتها أم لا؟ فكتب عليه السلام: تقضي صومها ولا تقضي صلاتها لان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله كان يأمر المؤمنات من نسائه بذلك “).
From Ilal Al-Shara’ii:

أبى رحمه الله قال حدثنا سعدبن عبدالله قال حدثنا احمدبن ادريس عن محمدبن احمد عن محمدبن عبدالجبار عن علي بن مهزيار قال: كنت اليه امرأة طهرت من حيضها او من دم نفاسها في اول يوم من شهر رمضان ثم استحاضت فصلت وصامت شهررمضان كله من غيرأن تعمل كما تعمله المستحاضة من الغسل لكل صلاتين هل يجوز صومها وصلاتها ام لا؟ فكتب تقضي صومهاولا تقضى صلاتهالان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله كان يأمر المؤمنات من نسائه بذلك.
As you can see in both of reports from books of Saduq, name of Fatima was simply removed. Because obviously it contradicts to beliefs of some shias that Fatima (r.a) didn’t have menstruation.

[TripolySunni]

Mr copy paster , my love, my sweet heart , you take shia hadiths from anti shia sites, then being sunni you label them sahih hadith.....should i laugh on your ignorance ??? but keep it up i am enjoying this pumpkin business :)

Not my problem if you don't believe me, I sited the sources accurately and you're a Kaffir if you reject a Sahih Hadith by your Imams.

[TripolySunni]

and my love copy paster why u failed to copy paste all !!! should i paste the rest ?? ok my love i help u have a look

Sh. Saduq also narrated this report in his books:

From Man La Yahdarhu Al-Faqeeh:

وروي عن علي بن مهزيار قال: كتبت إليه عليه السلام ” امرأة طهرت
من حيضها أو دم نفاسها في أول يوم من شهر رمضان ثم استحاضت فصلت وصامت شهر رمضان كله من غير أن تعمل ما تعمله المستحاضة من الغسل لكل صلاتين هل يجوز صومها وصلاتها أم لا؟ فكتب عليه السلام: تقضي صومها ولا تقضي صلاتها لان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله كان يأمر المؤمنات من نسائه بذلك “).
From Ilal Al-Shara’ii:

أبى رحمه الله قال حدثنا سعدبن عبدالله قال حدثنا احمدبن ادريس عن محمدبن احمد عن محمدبن عبدالجبار عن علي بن مهزيار قال: كنت اليه امرأة طهرت من حيضها او من دم نفاسها في اول يوم من شهر رمضان ثم استحاضت فصلت وصامت شهررمضان كله من غيرأن تعمل كما تعمله المستحاضة من الغسل لكل صلاتين هل يجوز صومها وصلاتها ام لا؟ فكتب تقضي صومهاولا تقضى صلاتهالان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله كان يأمر المؤمنات من نسائه بذلك.
As you can see in both of reports from books of Saduq, name of Fatima was simply removed. Because obviously it contradicts to beliefs of some shias that Fatima (r.a) didn’t have menstruation.

LOL so your lying Scholar al-Saduq removed the words Fatima from the narration which is originally found in al-Kafi because it disagrees with his beliefs? That is Tahreef.

You are a sect which follows its desires and not the proofs from the Ahadith.

[Sword of Haq]

But the Hadith is SAHIH so you're contradicting the words of your own Imam which makes you a Kaffir.

As you know sooo much about shias , can u type the name of those 4 books which they take it as bit sahih????

[TripolySunni]

As you know sooo much about shias , can u type the name of those 4 books which they take it as bit sahih????

al-Kafi by Kulayni, al-Tahtheeb & al-Istibsar both by al-Tusi, al-Faqih by al-Saduq.

[Sword of Haq]

LOL so your lying Scholar al-Saduq removed the words Fatima from the narration which is originally found in al-Kafi because it disagrees with his beliefs? That is Tahreef.

You are a sect which follows its desires and not the proofs from the Ahadith.

Al-Majlisi Miraat al-'Uqool VS Man La Yureed by Saduq. Which" according to u kafirs" consider among most sahih !!!!?

[TripolySunni]

Al-Majlisi Miraat al-'Uqool VS Man La Yureed by Saduq. Which" according to u kafirs" consider among most sahih !!!!?

There is no book called "Man la Yureed" it's called "Man La Yahduruhu al-Faqih". And both books have different functions, ALSO the narration is not in Miraat al-'Uqool it's in al-Kafi.

[Sword of Haq]

al-Kafi by Kulayni, al-Tahtheeb & al-Istibsar both by al-Tusi, al-Faqih by al-Saduq.

right complete names as you do when you cite any hadith from them. Dont play word games my love :)

A-Kitab al-Kafi of Kulayni (divided into Usul al-Kafi, Furu al-Kafi and Rawdat al-Kafi)
B- Man la Yahdhuruhu'l Faqih of Shaikh Saduq
C-Tahdhib al-Ahkam by Abu Ja'far al-Tusi
D- Al-Istibsar by Abu Ja'far al-Tusi

[Sword of Haq]

There is no book called "Man la Yureed" it's called "Man La Yahduruhu al-Faqih". And both books have different functions, ALSO the narration is not in Miraat al-'Uqool it's in al-Kafi.

Originally Posted by TripolySunni
Shia Hadith contradicts their belief about Fatima's (as) exaltation from encountering menstrual blood



The Shia say that Fatima (as) is so divine that she does not discharge blood as a result of child-birth or menstruation. Here is a SAHIH Shia Hadith from al-Kafi 4/136 that in which their infallible directly contradicts this belief and destroys it:



Abu 'Ali al-Asha'ari from Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from 'Ali ibn Mehzayar: I wrote to him(Imam) may peace be upon him: A woman was purified from her Haydh(bleeding in Menstruation) on the first day of the month of Ramadhan then she had Istihadah(False Menstruation) and she fasted and prayed during the entire month of Ramadhan without doing Ghusl(purifying her body) before every prayer so are her prayers and her fasting accepted? He peace be upon him wrote back: She must repeat her Siyam(Fasting) but not her Salat(prayer), the Prophet SAWS used to order Fatima peace be upon her and the believing women to do this.

Al-Majlisi says SAHIH in Miraat al-'Uqool 16/340.

i feel like dying, i feel like crying ...do you my love :)

[TripolySunni]

al-Miraat is a book written by the famous Shia scholar of Hadith and author of Bihar al-Anwar and al-Rijal called al-Majlisi in order to grade the narrations of al-Kafi according to the Shia science of Hadith.

al-Faqih is written by Ibn Babaweih al-Qummi, it's a book of Fiqh and Halal and Haram and the book is Isnadless so it contains no Asaneed and everything in it must be checked for authenticity.

you cannot compare the two books.

[Sword of Haq]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni
Shia Hadith contradicts their belief about Fatima's (as) exaltation from encountering menstrual blood



The Shia say that Fatima (as) is so divine that she does not discharge blood as a result of child-birth or menstruation. Here is a SAHIH Shia Hadith from al-Kafi 4/136 that in which their infallible directly contradicts this belief and destroys it:



Abu 'Ali al-Asha'ari from Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from 'Ali ibn Mehzayar: I wrote to him(Imam) may peace be upon him: A woman was purified from her Haydh(bleeding in Menstruation) on the first day of the month of Ramadhan then she had Istihadah(False Menstruation) and she fasted and prayed during the entire month of Ramadhan without doing Ghusl(purifying her body) before every prayer so are her prayers and her fasting accepted? He peace be upon him wrote back: She must repeat her Siyam(Fasting) but not her Salat(prayer), the Prophet SAWS used to order Fatima peace be upon her and the believing women to do this.

Al-Majlisi says SAHIH in Miraat al-'Uqool 16/340.

i feel like dying, i feel like crying ...do you my love :)

Also can you enlighten us with what shias say about hadiths present in Al Kafi??

[Sword of Haq]

There is no book called "Man la Yureed" it's called "Man La Yahduruhu al-Faqih". And both books have different functions, ALSO the narration is not in Miraat al-'Uqool it's in al-Kafi.

I thought you are the most smart so thought you will pick it up...sheikh saduq came up with really long name for his book

[Sword of Haq]

Al-Majlisi Miraat al-'Uqool VS Man La Yureed by Saduq. Which" according to u kafirs" consider among most sahih !!!!?

so after getting the proper spellings ...can u answer ./?

[TripolySunni]

Also can you enlighten us with what shias say about hadiths present in Al Kafi??

Akhbaris say everything in it is SAHIH like al-Hurr al-'Amili and other scholars from the Akhbari school.

Usooli Shias like al-Majlisi say that the narrations need to be checked for authenticity and this is why he wrote the book al-Miraat to grade thee narrations as Sahih, Hasan and Da'eef.

[TripolySunni]

so after getting the proper spellings ...can u answer ./?

refer to post #1059 for your answer, the question in itself is wrong.

[Sword of Haq]

LOL so your lying Scholar al-Saduq removed the words Fatima from the narration which is originally found in al-Kafi because it disagrees with his beliefs? That is Tahreef.

You are a sect which follows its desires and not the proofs from the Ahadith.

Quran: "Certainly We revealed the Reminder and certainly We shall preserve it." (The Holy Qur'an 15: 9)

So shias follow their desires and not the verse of quran!!! which says only Quran is authentic my love :)
Whats up?

[Sword of Haq]

Akhbaris say everything in it is SAHIH like al-Hurr al-'Amili and other scholars from the Akhbari school.

Usooli Shias like al-Majlisi say that the narrations need to be checked for authenticity and this is why he wrote the book al-Miraat to grade thee narrations as Sahih, Hasan and Da'eef.

Quran: "Certainly We revealed the Reminder and certainly We shall preserve it." (The Holy Qur'an 15: 9)


who to follow !!!!? Akhbaris or Quran? tell me my love what is logic?

[Sword of Haq]

al-Miraat is a book written by the famous Shia scholar of Hadith and author of Bihar al-Anwar and al-Rijal called al-Majlisi in order to grade the narrations of al-Kafi according to the Shia science of Hadith.

al-Faqih is written by Ibn Babaweih al-Qummi, it's a book of Fiqh and Halal and Haram and the book is Isnadless so it contains no Asaneed and everything in it must be checked for authenticity.

you cannot compare the two books.

As far i heard and checked recently Shias believe in 12 imams ...this majlisi is 13th???? is it my love?

[UmHasan]

Please take a day to calm down and come back tommorrow with a clearer mind and clearer argument. This diagram, courtesy of Brother Hussain, is a valuable guideline:


http://picupload.org/i/12a59f88e743.jpg

[TripolySunni]

Please take a day to calm down and come back tommorrow with a clearer mind and clearer argument. This diagram, courtesy of Brother Hussain, is a valuable guideline:


http://picupload.org/i/12a59f88e743.jpg

Dear Respected Sister I've got no time to waste on an individual who speaks like this:

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/Shia.jpg

And if he calls me "My Love" One more time I'll insult him and his religion HARSHLY! ( Yes we Lebanese are like that).

[Sword of Haq]

Dear Respected Sister I've got no time to waste on an individual who speaks like this:

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/Shia.jpg

And if he calls me "My Love" One more time I'll insult him and his religion HARSHLY! ( Yes we Lebanese are like that).

LOL my love my Sheikh ul Copy Paste of course you cannot talk or debate or answer what i say as you wont find things which i ask or say on other web pages so you can paste down the reply. My love nice to know you are Lebanese. Kindly read what your hanafi sister gave u to read. Its good and colorful very systematic diagram

[Sword of Haq]

Salam Aleykum, How can I help and Why me specifically ?

LOL because you are the best sheikh ul copy paste

[suleimanibnsalim]

Why don't you read the diagram yourself, sword? All you do is accuse brother Tripoly of copy and pasting (the gift-2-shia site takes it from br. Tripoly) -- it's called ad hominem; again, please read the diagram. If you refuse to take heed, expect a ban.

[Sword of Haq]

[QUOTE=TripolySunni;618775]السلام عليكم

Sorry I do not understand this Arabic text fully so that I may translate it





LOL because i am sheikh ul Copy Paste

[Sword of Haq]

Why don't you read the diagram yourself, sword? All you do is accuse brother Tripoly of copy and pasting (the gift-2-shia site takes it from br. Tripoly) -- it's called ad hominem; again, please read the diagram. If you refuse to take heed, expect a ban.

I know many users when they create their account on any forum they dont bother to read policy stuff and just mark it as they read unlike me. I did not find under those rules anywhere written that user will be banned over this. And who you are threatening !!! me ...ban from what !!!? Hajj visa???

I am acussing your brother!!! infact i am in love with him for stating soooo many fadails of Imam Ali a.s

[suleimanibnsalim]

...ban you for trolling -- because that's what you're doing...

brother Tripoly, don't waste your time with him.

[Sword of Haq]

You hit the nail on the spot, I have LOADS of Shia narrations that show that their Imams do not move a muscle during Salat no matter what happened (Even in matters of life and death).

@Wellwisher, this is a reminder for you that the article has been updated:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?73376-The-difference-between-the-Shia-Imams-and-the-Prophets

================================================== =================
Bhukari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 293:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

The Prophet went out to affect a reconciliation between the tribes of Bani 'Amr bin 'Auf and the time of the prayer became due; Bilal went to Abu Bakr and said, "The Prophet is detained. Will you lead the people in the prayer?" Abu Bakr replied, "Yes, if you wish." So Bilal pronounced the Iqama and Abu Bakr led the prayer. In the meantime the Prophet came crossing the rows (of the praying people) till he stood in the first row and the people started clapping. Abu Bakr never looked hither and thither during the prayer but when the people clapped too much, he looked back and saw the Prophet in the (first) row. The Prophet waved him to remain at his place, but Abu Bakr raised both his hands and sent praises to Allah and then retreated and the Prophet went forward and led the prayer.

wow calpping is allowed giving zakat is not wow just wow.

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 295:
Narrated Abu Huraira :

The Prophet said, "The saying 'Sub Han Allah' is for men and clapping is for women." (If something happens in the prayer, the men can invite the attention of the Imam by saying "Sub Han Allah". And women, by clapping their hands).

wow just wow

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 297:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

While Abu Bakr was leading the people in the morning prayer on a Monday, the Prophet came towards them suddenly having lifted the curtain of 'Aisha's house, and looked at them as they were standing in rows and smiled. Abu Bakr tried to come back thinking that Allah's Apostle wanted to come out for the prayer. The attention of the Muslims was diverted from the prayer because they were delighted to see the Prophet. The Prophet waved his hand to them to complete their prayer, then he went back into the room and let down the curtain. The Prophet expired on that very day.

wow just wow wonder if those muslims were not facing kaba but Aisha's room ...wow

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 302:
Narrated Al-Azraq bin Qais:

We were at Al-Ahwaz fighting the AlHaruriya (tribe). While I was at the bank of a river a man was praying and the reins of his animal were in his hands and the animal was struggling and he was following the animal. (Shu'ba, a sub-narrator, said that man was Abu Barza al-Aslaml). A man from the Khawarij said, "O Allah! Be harsh to this sheik." And when the sheik (Abu Barza) finished his prayer, he said, "I heard your remark. No doubt, I participated with Allah's Apostle in six or seven or eight holy battles and saw his leniency, and no doubt, I would rather retain my animal than let it return to its stable, as it would cause me much trouble. "

wow just wow

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 312:
Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith:

I offered the 'Asr prayer with the Prophet and after finishing the prayer with Taslim he got up quickly and went to some of his wives and then came out. He noticed the signs of astonishment on the faces of the people caused by his speed. He then said, "I remembered while I was in my prayer that a piece of gold was Lying in my house and I disliked that it should remain with us throughout the night, and so I have ordered it to be distributed."

when you will try to find an answer to back up your this hadith , you will definitely find the answers for the questions you asked above

[Sword of Haq]

...ban you for trolling -- because that's what you're doing...

brother Tripoly, don't waste your time with him.

before banning please define trolling according to your madhab :) so i take care about it

[Sword of Haq]

...ban you for trolling -- because that's what you're doing...

brother Tripoly, don't waste your time with him.

And believe me he is not wasting time, he is sheikh ul copy paste...answers with him are just click away

[Sword of Haq]

السلام عليكم

I've updated the thread on Ibn al-Sawdaa 'Abdullah ibn Sabaa by some valuable information here:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?1308-Who-was-Abdullah-ibn-Saba&p=623081#post623081

valuable information haha family history !!!!?

[UmHasan]

Kindly read what your hanafi sister gave u to read. Its good and colorful very systematic diagram

The diagram was actually advice for you and not the respected brother who you were insulting.

[faizol]

:salam: to all,

I failed to see any solid counter arguments to all the points raised by brother TripoliSunni. What I see is just a childish reply.

Sword of haq, if you really are serious in clearing any 'misunderstanding of shia', then please do so in a respectable manner, not in a childish way as you're currently doing.

I failed to see any intelligent counter points being presented by you. If this is just your childish game, then you're wasting your time and everybody's time here, and you failed to clear any 'misunderstanding of shia'.

The forum is open enough for you to post any points that could back up your claim, so use this opportunity to do so. Otherwise, you'll be known, sadly, as just another trolling shia.

Seriously, if you really want to do what you claimed you wanted to do, with all due respect, please do so. Many people are waiting for you to do as exactly as you claimed in the first place so that we all can read and and perhaps re-evaluate this so-called 'misunderstanding'.

[Aydin Zaman]

[QUOTE=Aydin Zaman;639560]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
not at all. All i see is contradiction to your own very 1st statement. Anyways tc i will pray for you to find it this time not written by ink which disappears and become difficult to find again.


thanks for your help

I found it.

Abdul Ghafar bin Al-Qassim Abu Maryam in that chain is rafidi liar.

[Aydin Zaman]

Salaam,

I have a quick question about shias' arguments for fadak.

shias bring up the argument that Abu Bakr RA asked for witnesses. answering ansar states sources like Tafseer al-Kabeer, Vol. 10, page 506 and Insan al-Ayun fi Seerah al-Halbeeyah, Vol. 3, page 487 & 488.

This can't be true. Abu Bekr RA told Fatimah RA that Prophets do not leave inheritance.

does anyone know the verdict of these hadith and why would Abu Bakr RA call for witnesses if it is known that prophets do not leave anything except nafaqa?

[TripolySunni]

================================================== =================
Bhukari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 293:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

The Prophet went out to affect a reconciliation between the tribes of Bani 'Amr bin 'Auf and the time of the prayer became due; Bilal went to Abu Bakr and said, "The Prophet is detained. Will you lead the people in the prayer?" Abu Bakr replied, "Yes, if you wish." So Bilal pronounced the Iqama and Abu Bakr led the prayer. In the meantime the Prophet came crossing the rows (of the praying people) till he stood in the first row and the people started clapping. Abu Bakr never looked hither and thither during the prayer but when the people clapped too much, he looked back and saw the Prophet in the (first) row. The Prophet waved him to remain at his place, but Abu Bakr raised both his hands and sent praises to Allah and then retreated and the Prophet went forward and led the prayer.

wow calpping is allowed giving zakat is not wow just wow.

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 295:
Narrated Abu Huraira :

The Prophet said, "The saying 'Sub Han Allah' is for men and clapping is for women." (If something happens in the prayer, the men can invite the attention of the Imam by saying "Sub Han Allah". And women, by clapping their hands).

wow just wow

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 297:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

While Abu Bakr was leading the people in the morning prayer on a Monday, the Prophet came towards them suddenly having lifted the curtain of 'Aisha's house, and looked at them as they were standing in rows and smiled. Abu Bakr tried to come back thinking that Allah's Apostle wanted to come out for the prayer. The attention of the Muslims was diverted from the prayer because they were delighted to see the Prophet. The Prophet waved his hand to them to complete their prayer, then he went back into the room and let down the curtain. The Prophet expired on that very day.

wow just wow wonder if those muslims were not facing kaba but Aisha's room ...wow

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 302:
Narrated Al-Azraq bin Qais:

We were at Al-Ahwaz fighting the AlHaruriya (tribe). While I was at the bank of a river a man was praying and the reins of his animal were in his hands and the animal was struggling and he was following the animal. (Shu'ba, a sub-narrator, said that man was Abu Barza al-Aslaml). A man from the Khawarij said, "O Allah! Be harsh to this sheik." And when the sheik (Abu Barza) finished his prayer, he said, "I heard your remark. No doubt, I participated with Allah's Apostle in six or seven or eight holy battles and saw his leniency, and no doubt, I would rather retain my animal than let it return to its stable, as it would cause me much trouble. "

wow just wow

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 312:
Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith:

I offered the 'Asr prayer with the Prophet and after finishing the prayer with Taslim he got up quickly and went to some of his wives and then came out. He noticed the signs of astonishment on the faces of the people caused by his speed. He then said, "I remembered while I was in my prayer that a piece of gold was Lying in my house and I disliked that it should remain with us throughout the night, and so I have ordered it to be distributed."

when you will try to find an answer to back up your this hadith , you will definitely find the answers for the questions you asked above



إن الحمد لله نحمده و نستعينه و نستغفره و نعوذ بالله من شرور أنفسنا و من سيئات أعمالنا, من يهده الله فلا مضل له و من يضلل فلن تجد له وليا مرشدا

1- Regarding the Hadith of clapping, The time of the obligatory prayer came and the Prophet SAWS was absent in an affair so obviously the companions (ra) would select the next best man to stand as their Imam so they picked Abu Bakr (ra) this time and as they prayed the Prophet SAWS returned and he started praying in the first row behind Abu Bakr (ra) so the companions (raa) found this to be unacceptable as the Prophet SAWS should always be the Imam thus they started to clap to alert the Imam that something was wrong however Abu Bakr (ra) was focused on the prayer that he never looked back but they kept clapping and when he turned back he saw the Prophet SAWS praying behind him so he quickly stepped back and pointed with his hand so that the prophet SAWS would take his place as an Imam and he did.
When the prayer was finished the prophet SAWS asked Abu bakr (ra) why he did not continue as the Imam and Abu Bakr (ra) said: "Ibn abu Quhafa would never stand as the Imam of the Messenger of Allah peace and blessings be upon him".
Then the Prophet SAWS turned to face the Muslims and said to them: "Why the clapping? It is only for women to clap during the prayer as for Men if they have any urgent needs during the prayer Then they can say Subhan-Allah."

and here is the full text of the Hadith in Arabic from Musnad abu Ya'ala al-Mousili:



مسند أبي يعلى الموصلي » تَابِعْ : مُسْنَدُ جَابِرٍ
رقم الحديث: 2142
(حديث مرفوع) حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو إِسْحَاقَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْهَرَوِيُّ ، حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ عُلَيَّةَ ، حَدَّثَنَا الْحَجَّاجُ بْنُ أَبِي عُثْمَانَ ، عَنْ أَبِي الزُّبَيْرِ ، عَنْ جَابِرٍ : انْطَلَقَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِيُصْلِحَ بَيْنَ بَنِي عَمْرِو بْنِ عَوْفٍ مِنَ الأَنْصَارِ ، قَالَ : وَحَضَرَتِ الصَّلاةُ ، فَقَالَ بِلالٌ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ : أَأُؤَذِّنُ فَتُصَلِّيَ بِالنَّاسِ ؟ . قَالَ : نَعَمْ ، فَأَقَامَ بِلالٌ ، فَتَقَدَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ فَصَلَّى بِالنَّاسِ ، وَجَاءَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ، فَجَعَلُوا يُصَفِّقُونَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ ، وَكَانَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ لا يَكَادُ يَلْتَفِتُ إِذَا كَانَ فِي الصَّلاةِ ، فَلَمَّا صَفَّقُوا الْتَفَتَ ، فَرَأَى رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ، فَتَأَخَّرَ ، فَأَوْمَأَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ بِيَدِهِ إِلَيْهِ أَنْ يُصَلِّي فَأَبَى ، فَتَقَدَّمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَصَلَّى ، فَلَمَّا قَضَى صَلاتَهُ ، قَالَ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ : " مَا مَنَعَكَ أَنْ تُصَلِّيَ ؟ " . قَالَ : مَا كَانَ لابْنِ أَبِي قُحَافَةَ أَنْ يَؤُمَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ . فَأَقْبَلَ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ ، فَقَالَ : " مَا بَالُ التَّصْفِيقِ ، إِنَّمَا التَّصْفِيقُ فِي الصَّلاةِ لِلنِّسَاءِ ، فَإِذَا كَانَ لأَحَدِكُمْ حَاجَةٌ فَلْيُسَبِّحْ " .


2- As for the Hadith of 'Aisha's (as) curtain, this is when the Prophet SAWS was in his final sickness and he was dying so he was resting in 'Aisha's (as) room as he requested. He already had appointed Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (ra) to lead the Muslims in prayer in his place. So when he opened that curtain and looked at them from the room ('Aisha's house is right next to the mosque) they spotted him and were all delighted that the Prophet SAWS was doing much better and they even hoped that he would come out and stand as their Imam like it was in the old days and Abu Bakr (ra) stepped backwards as if to invite the Prophet SAWS to be the Imam, however the reality of the matter is that he was not capable of standing any more and he waved with his hand so that they could continue their prayer regularly.

3- The Hadith of the Khawarij(al-Haruriyyah). The Man was in a strange land(al-Ahwaz) and he had his horse/donkey with him. There was no place to tie the animal so he feared that the animal might escape and leave him alone, so he held on to the rails and when he saw it leave he pulled it back and took a small step to return to his prayer as mentioned in another version of the Hadith without even changing the direction of his Qiblah:

فمضت الدابة في قبلته ، فانطلق فأخذها ، ثم رجع القهقرى

In another version of the Hadith narrated by Hamad he says:

ووقع في رواية حماد : " فقال : إن منزلي متراخ فلو صليت وتركته لم آت أهلي إلى الليل "
"My home is very far away and I fear that if I left it(Animal) I would never be able to reach it(Home) by night."

This is why the scholars of Fiqh allow such matter in difficult situations.

4-The Last narration I see absolutely nothing wrong with it, he just went in a hurry to distribute the Sadaqah although I see a mistake in the translation, the Arabic Hadith doesn't mention "throughout the night" I don't know where they got it from, in Arabic it only says "فكرهت أن يحبسني" Which means "I fear that it would keep me" and the scholars explained this phrase differently but the most likely explanation is that he feared that it would keep him from concentrating in the prayer so this is why when he was done praying he quickly went to get it.

[TripolySunni]

@ Aydin Zaman,

Don't worry I'll answer your question soon, I've just been too occupied.

[TripolySunni]

A Few words from the famous Shia who recently became an ex-Shia "lotfilms".


May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon you all.

I heard a rumour a while back that a popular Shia had left Shi'ism and adopted the path of the Quran and the Authentic Sunnah, I had met this man in the past on "Shiachat" where he calls himself "lotfilms" and he appeared to be an unbiased and knowledgeable Shia who was diving deeply into Shi'ism and researching his Madhab.

You can see his posts on random Shiachat threads like this one:

www.shi@ch@t.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234969582-the-elements-of-islamic-metaphysics/

(replace "@" with "a")

Just today Allah had blessed me as I was able to come into contact with this brother on another forum through one of his friends "Lord Botta" from Shiachat, and I asked him to write us an article on how he was guided, he seemed pretty reluctant but he was generous enough to share these words:

I don't really want to write such a detailed article because i still have a lot to learn and i don't want to say something that is incorrect as a result of my ignorance, just like how i used to say many incorrect things and i seek Allah(swt)'s forgiveness for the incorrect things i said without knowledge. i remember a good advice from Shaykh al-Albani where he says that if a student of knowledge wants to write something, he should wait X number of years and spend that time studying (i can't remember if he said 10 years, 20 years, or 30 years)

But briefly, Allah(swt) revealed the Quran as a Furqan so everything should be compared to it and the Quran has to be placed first and foremost. And alhamdulillah my Shuyukh's advice to me to spend a lot of my time to focus on the Quran has allowed me to distinguish between a lot of truth a falsehood.
Like sometimes a brother on this forum and i have discussions on hadiths and he'll bring up a hadith and say that it is weak because such and such narrator is weak. So sometimes i'll tell him "Brother, there's no need to get into 'ilm al-rijal for this hadith. Allah(swt) very clearly says such and such in this verse" and it's the same conclusion as the brother's.

So then the question remains, what is the best source for the Sunnah other than the Quran? Allah(swt) praises the Muhajireen and the Ansar many times in the Quran and even authentic Shia hadiths confirm that they were amazingly pious people, for example:


حدثنا أحمد بن زياد بن جعفر الهمداني رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا علي ابن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن أبيه، عن محمد بن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: كان أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله اثني عشر ألفا ثمانية آلاف من المدينة، و ألفان من مكة، وألفان من الطلقاء، ولم ير فيهم قدري ولا مرجي ولا حروري ولا معتزلي، ولا صحاب رأي، كانوا يبكون الليل والنهار ويقولون: اقبض أرواحنا من قبل أن نأكل خبز الخمير.

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m012/09/no0999.html


narrated ahmed ibn ziad al-hamadani narrated ali ibn ibrahim ibn hashim narrated his father from ibn abi umair from hishem ibn salem from abi abdilleh he said:

the companions of rasool allah (saww) were twelve thousand : eight thousand in madina and two thousand in Mecca and two thousand from "tulaqa"(those who became muslim in "fath" mecca . there was no "qadari" or "morj'i" or "huroori" or "mutazili" or "people of opinion" (opinion against nass he means ) among them . they used to cry day and night and say: oh allah take our souls in a pure state

Or this beautiful descriptions of the true Sahaba(ra) in Nahj al-Balagha:


I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind.

http://www.nahjulbalagha.org/SermonDetail.php?Sermon=96

But when we go into details, i find that the best of these(ra) to get my religion from is Ali and the family of the Prophet(pbuh) in general. This is because they would always know what is the naasikh and what is the mansookh or what was the context in which the Prophet(pbuh) said such and such hadith etc.
Like for example, you'll see several examples where 'Aisha corrects some of the Sahaba here and there when they misunderstood a hadith.
Like some thought that it was haram for women to visit graves based on a hadith of the Prophet(pbuh), but then she explained that that was abrogated and that it's allowed for women to visit graves. (Shaykh al-Albani has a fantastic discussion of the grave issue in particular in his "Ahkaam al-Janaa'iz")

Or when a person banned the Mut'ah of Hajj, Ali(as) firmly stood up for this and strongly told this Caliph, "I will not leave the tradition of the Prophet on the saying of somebody."

So not only do i find his(pbuh) family to be the most knowledge, but they also stood firm for the Sunnah. Also i've found there to be a lot less contradictions when we stick to their hadiths, so i still read the hadiths narrated by the other Companions because there's a lot to be learned there.


So i prefer to get my Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh) channeled through his(pbuh) family(as) as much as i can.
So now the question is, where is the best source for the hadiths of Ahl al-Bayt? Lately i've had a lot of shakk(Doubt) in regards to Shia books and Shia 'ilm al-rijal (it's a long subject and i dont really want to go into too much details) so i've been getting most of my hadiths of Ahl al-Bayt through Sunni sources and frankly there's way more of their hadihs in Sunni sources than most Sunnis or Shias realize. Maybe even enough to construct a whole madhab out of it.

So that's where i am so far, though the differences are perhaps very subtle.


- end -

source: http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=14579&st=20



و الصلاة و السلام على سيدنا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

[TripolySunni]

Salaam,

I have a quick question about shias' arguments for fadak.

shias bring up the argument that Abu Bakr RA asked for witnesses. answering ansar states sources like Tafseer al-Kabeer, Vol. 10, page 506 and Insan al-Ayun fi Seerah al-Halbeeyah, Vol. 3, page 487 & 488.

This can't be true. Abu Bekr RA told Fatimah RA that Prophets do not leave inheritance.

does anyone know the verdict of these hadith and why would Abu Bakr RA call for witnesses if it is known that prophets do not leave anything except nafaqa?

السلام عليكم

Dear brother the Shia probably quoted a Hadith from al-Tafseer al-Kabir by ibn Katheer which says that when the verse "وآتِ ذا القربى حقه" (Give to the near of kin, the needy and the destitute traveler their rights and do not squander) [17:26] when this was revealed the Prophet SAWS gave Fadak to Fatima (ra) BUT the shia did not quote the commentary because Ibn Katheer weakens it by saying that he doesn't know anybody who narrated this from al-Fudayl ibn Marzuk except Abu yahya al-Tamimi & Hamid ibn Humad bin abi al-Khawar, then he says that this is impossible because this Aya is "Makkiyah" meaning it was revealed in Mecca and Fadak as we know was opened with Khaybar on the 7th year of Hijrah so it doesn't work.

He continued then by saying that the narration was fabricated by the Rafidhah hehe...

I don't know any Sahih Hadith which says that Abu Bakr (ra) asked her for witnesses.

[AbuBakr786]

Whoever posted in this thread is obviously mentally challenged, slandering or spreading false rumors about the SHIA will guarantee a spot in HELL. I swear whoever posted this topic has the mental capacity of my pet goldfish. How can you slander against the Prophet's family? The Prophet himself did mutah! The caliphs forbade it simply because they didnt like it. WTF is that? It says in Authentic SUNNI sources that the Prophet did mutah!

[TripolySunni]

Whoever posted in this thread is obviously mentally challenged, slandering or spreading false rumors about the SHIA will guarantee a spot in HELL. I swear whoever posted this topic has the mental capacity of my pet goldfish. How can you slander against the Prophet's family? The Prophet himself did mutah! The caliphs forbade it simply because they didnt like it. WTF is that? It says in Authentic SUNNI sources that the Prophet did mutah!

LOL I see you're in the Ramadhan spirit my undercover Shia friend "Abu Bakr". please don't accuse the Prophet SAWS of Mut'ah you shias have already accused him and his Ahlul-Bayt (as) of many corrupt sayings.


PS: Thanks for bumping the thread now many people can read it.

[AbuBakr786]

LOL I see you're in the Ramadhan spirit my undercover Shia friend "Abu Bakr". please don't accuse the Prophet SAWS of Mut'ah you shias have already accused him and his Ahlul-Bayt (as) of many corrupt sayings.

Its a fact, The Prophet PBUH did Mutah, The Prophet PBUH never folded his hands in prayer. You know whats ironic? It says in your books that the caliphs forbade Mutah themselves. Yet you seem to disagree. Do you disagree with the Quran as well? Seems like it. I have a list of Authentic Hadith I can show you buddy.

[TripolySunni]

Its a fact, The Prophet PBUH did Mutah, The Prophet PBUH never folded his hands in prayer. You know whats ironic? It says in your books that the caliphs forbade Mutah themselves. Yet you seem to disagree. Do you disagree with the Quran as well? Seems like it. I have a list of Authentic Hadith I can show you buddy.

It's amazing how badly you guys wanna do Mut'ah. I am too busy in ramadhan and sadly whatever you post I won't be able to read it until after 9 hours hehe..

[AbuBakr786]

It's amazing how badly you guys wanna do Mut'ah.

Wow, Have you heard of Misyaar before? Pretty similar buddy. Go look it up. Dont ever slander the concept of Mutah. I swear on my life, may Allah send me to Hell if i'm wrong, that the Prophet himself did it.

[Muntaqim Force]

Wow, Have you heard of Misyaar before? Pretty similar buddy. Go look it up. Dont ever slander the concept of Mutah. I swear on my life, may Allah send me to Hell if i'm wrong, that the Prophet himself did it.

Salaam

It is really strange that i received the notification of your comment when i am not even related to such threads. Though i advice you that please do not take anything as Sunni belief whatsoever Mr Tripoly says. His statements and very much out of educational discussions. As you can see below how credible and joy able for him is of converting some interet ID of shia chat but alas this Mr tripoly is not to be seen in the thread where the actual discussion of Sunnis convert to shias took place. He posted one comment and then disappear. Such people do not represent Islam but Fitna only.

JazakAllah

[wellwisher]

Wow, Have you heard of Misyaar before? Pretty similar buddy. Go look it up. Dont ever slander the concept of Mutah. I swear on my life, may Allah send me to Hell if i'm wrong, that the Prophet himself did it.

Well if it is then it has nothing to do with Ahlesunnah, because the correct conditions of misyar have a difference of chalk and cheese with muta, though ignorants might never want to accpet this, because they will have no leg to stand then. :)

[wellwisher]

Its a fact, The Prophet PBUH did Mutah, The Prophet PBUH never folded his hands in prayer. You know whats ironic? It says in your books that the caliphs forbade Mutah themselves. Yet you seem to disagree. Do you disagree with the Quran as well? Seems like it. I have a list of Authentic Hadith I can show you buddy.

We too have ahadees where Ahlebayt themselve said that Muta wa made haram by prophet(saw), and its even present in shia books.. go and read wasail us shia , buddy

[Muntaqim Force]

Now as i am dragged in this discussion somehow, i ask simple questions first from any brother ; What is Mutah? What was the necessity of it?

[wellwisher]

Now as i am dragged in this discussion somehow, i ask simple questions first from any brother ; What is Mutah? What was the necessity of it?

who dragged you? btw who doesnt even know the basics are never dragged into discussion, stay out

[Muntaqim Force]

who dragged you? btw who doesnt even know the basics are never dragged into discussion, stay out

Mr Wellwisher seriously i was not involved in this thread but i received an email notification of Mr Abu Baker replying to my post and when i followed the link i saw myself here between Mutah and Misyar. Can you enlighten me with basics, seems you have been practicing this 'muta' hell a lot so you have very keen experience in it. My questions were not something to push me out of this discussion but if this keeps you happy then go on, i am out of it.

And please tell me how i can prevent these notifications coming to my mail box related to this thread!!!?

JazakAllah

[wellwisher]

Mr Wellwisher seriously i was not involved in this thread but i received an email notification of Mr Abu Baker replying to my post and when i followed the link i saw myself here between Mutah and Misyar. Can you enlighten me with basics, seems you have been practicing this 'muta' hell a lot so you have very keen experience in it. My questions were not something to push me out of this discussion but if this keeps you happy then go on, i am out of it.

And please tell me how i can prevent these notifications coming to my mail box related to this thread!!!?

JazakAllah
well i wanted to but all the shias have turned hypocrites, because when i ask them to offer their daughters in the noble and virtues cause of muta, they answer back in a rude manner like umar ibn khattab(as) did regarding muta.

yeah but i can tell you what muta is, its temporary marriage.. which is haram in islam...

misyar is not temporary marriage , its permanent. And any marriage which is done with intention of divorce whether muta or misyar, they are haram.

[Muntaqim Force]

Yes of course we love them to...But we follow their teachings specifically and only the TRUE SUNNAH can be derived from them.

So why dont you follow their teachings if you love them so much??

Salaam

Brother , we respect the shia imams as well. Ofcourse they are the direct decedents of our Prophet s.a.w and there is no match with their knowledge. But you shia people do exaggerate their status and make them sound as if they are Allah. I am sorry regarding Mr tripoly's statements. Believe me they are not of what we Ahle Sunnah believes but are of wahabisim/Salafisim penetrated in us just like so many sects penetrated in jaffri school of thought. Please do not take his words as believes of Ahle Sunnah.

JazakAllah

[Muntaqim Force]

well i wanted to but all the shias have turned hypocrites, because when i ask them to offer their daughters in the noble and virtues cause of muta, they answer back like umar ibn khattab(as).

yeah but i can tell you what muta is, its temporary marriage.. which is haram in islam...

misyar is not temporary marriage , its permanent. And any marriage which is done with intention of divorce whether muta or misyar, they are haram.

HOW DARE YOU ABUSED OUR CALIPH LIKE THIS , CAN ANYONE BAN THIS PERSON FOR CALLING HAZRAT UMER R.A AN AS..............................please learn manners and then tell us your shiaism

[wellwisher]

HOW DARE YOU ABUSED OUR CALIPH LIKE THIS , CAN ANYONE BAN THIS PERSON FOR CALLING HAZRAT UMER R.A AN AS..............................please learn manners and then tell us your shiaism
lol....... you need to have some comprehension understanding skills to understand what i said, anyways i have elaborated it for people like you...

[Muntaqim Force]

lol....... you need to have some comprehension understanding skills to understand what i said, anyways i have elaborated it for people like you...

I m sooo sorry for all this. Actually ur id was making me confused. I came across many shi's using this id of Well Wisher. Even a shia friend of mine gave me one fictious book i guess 10 nights of peshawer to read and the shia guy in that book is named Well Wisher.

Sorry once again

[IbnShafiq]

Wow, Have you heard of Misyaar before? Pretty similar buddy. Go look it up. Dont ever slander the concept of Mutah. I swear on my life, may Allah send me to Hell if i'm wrong, that the Prophet himself did it.

Ameen

[TripolySunni]

Wow, Have you heard of Misyaar before? Pretty similar buddy. Go look it up. Dont ever slander the concept of Mutah. I swear on my life, may Allah send me to Hell if i'm wrong, that the Prophet himself did it.

Nope Misyar is nothing like it, try comparing the rules of Misyar and the rules of temporary Shia Mut'ah they are nothing alike.

[TripolySunni]

Salaam

It is really strange that i received the notification of your comment when i am not even related to such threads. Though i advice you that please do not take anything as Sunni belief whatsoever Mr Tripoly says. His statements and very much out of educational discussions. As you can see below how credible and joy able for him is of converting some interet ID of shia chat but alas this Mr tripoly is not to be seen in the thread where the actual discussion of Sunnis convert to shias took place. He posted one comment and then disappear. Such people do not represent Islam but Fitna only.

JazakAllah

I'd have a useful comment usually but i have no idea what you just said above, I doubt anyone understood anything you said but personally i get the feeling you're trying to attack me.

And Fitnah = Twelver Shia.

[TripolySunni]

Now as i am dragged in this discussion somehow, i ask simple questions first from any brother ; What is Mutah? What was the necessity of it?

LOL @ necessity,

If you had the least bit knowledge you'd know that Mutah was being practised even before Islam, what the Prophet SAWS did is that he banned it as he banned alcohol.

[TripolySunni]

Salaam

Brother , we respect the shia imams as well. Ofcourse they are the direct decedents of our Prophet s.a.w and there is no match with their knowledge. But you shia people do exaggerate their status and make them sound as if they are Allah. I am sorry regarding Mr tripoly's statements. Believe me they are not of what we Ahle Sunnah believes but are of wahabisim/Salafisim penetrated in us just like so many sects penetrated in jaffri school of thought. Please do not take his words as believes of Ahle Sunnah.

JazakAllah

I am just quoting Shia books son, unless their scholars are Wahhabi as well.

It's pretty interesting that you keep criticizing but in all honesty I've just read your posts in the couple of threads that you happened to participate in and NOT ONE of them was useful, you've kind of contributed nothing.

[mmb786]

please all you shias get out of this forum... dont cum and load and pollute sunni forum with all your wierd and dumb theories. i think i better go off this thread coz i have a feeling im gona start usin preety bad language!

[dr76]

who dragged you? btw who doesnt even know the basics are never dragged into discussion, stay out



:salam:

i couldnt help laughing :lol: some great ppl masha Allah.. saw another barelwi joker on other thread.. these guys r marked - ' Physicians Sample NOT for sale '.

duas..

wa assalam..

[TripolySunni]

I like how the Shia keep bumping this thread, honestly they're like sadists and masochists, don't you Shias know that if you bump this one you're doing your sect more harm than good? but since you did this I might as well destroy the infallibility of one of your Imams from your own books and through your own authentic Ahadith:

We question the infallibility of the Shia Imam from their own book al-Kafi Incha-Allah in this topic.

Infallibility of al-Hassan ibn 'Ali

First of all let us see how does Allah view the Man that divorces a lot of women:

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ غَيْرِ وَاحِدٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ مَا مِنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ مِمَّا أَحَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ أَبْغَضَ إِلَيْهِ مِنَ الطَّلَاقِ وَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُبْغِضُ الْمِطْلَاقَ الذَّوَّاقَ .


'Ali ibn Ibrahim from his Father from Ibn Abi 'Umayr from several people from al-Sadiq (as): There is not one permissible act which is more hateful to Allah than divorce and Allah HATES the man who divorces a lot.
source: al-Kafi 6/54.
al-Majlisi said: Hasan.

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ طَلْحَةَ بْنِ زَيْدٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبِي ( عليه السلام ) يَقُولُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ يُبْغِضُ كُلَّ مِطْلَاقٍ ذَوَّاقٍ.


Muhammad ibn Yahya from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Yahya from Talha ibn Zaid from al-Sadiq (as): I heard my father (as) say: Allah HATES every man who divorces a lot.
source: al-Kafi 6/55.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq.

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَدِيجَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ يُحِبُّ الْبَيْتَ الَّذِي فِيهِ الْعُرْسُ وَ يُبْغِضُ الْبَيْتَ الَّذِي فِيهِ الطَّلَاقُ وَ مَا مِنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ أَبْغَضَ إِلَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ مِنَ الطَّلَاقِ .

Muhammad ibn Yahya from Muhammad ibn al-Hussein from 'Abdul-Rahman ibn Muhammad from Abu Khadeejah from Abu 'Abdullah (as): Allah loves the Bayt(house) that has a wedding ceremony and hates the Bayt which has a divorce, there is Nothing more HATEFUL to Allah than divorce.
source: al-Kafi 6/54.
al-Majlisi said: They differed on it.

Now the main event:

حُمَيْدُ بْنُ زِيَادٍ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ سَمَاعَةَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ عَلِيّاً قَالَ وَ هُوَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ لَا تُزَوِّجُوا الْحَسَنَ فَإِنَّهُ رَجُلٌ مِطْلَاقٌ فَقَامَ رَجُلٌ مِنْ هَمْدَانَ فَقَالَ بَلَى وَ اللَّهِ لَنُزَوِّجَنَّهُ وَ هُوَ ابْنُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ ابْنُ أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ( عليه السلام ) فَإِنْ شَاءَ أَمْسَكَ وَ إِنْ شَاءَ طَلَّقَ .


Humayd ibn Ziad from al-Hassan bin Muhammad bin Sama'ah from Muhammad ibn Ziad ibn 'Isa from 'Abdullah ibn Sinan from al-Sadiq (as): 'Ali said while on the Mimbar: Do not wed your girls to al-Hassan because he is a Man that Divorces a Lot, then a man from Hamdan stood up and said: Yes by Allah we will grant him our girls because he is the son of Rassul Allah SAWS and the son of Ameer al-Mumineen (as) so if he wants he keeps them and if not he divorces.
source: al-Kafi 6/56.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq.

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ بَزِيعٍ عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ بَشِيرٍ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ أَبِي الْعَلَاءِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَ بْنَ عَلِيٍّ ( عليه السلام ) طَلَّقَ خَمْسِينَ امْرَأَةً فَقَامَ عَلِيٌّ ( عليه السلام ) بِالْكُوفَةِ فَقَالَ يَا مَعَاشِرَ أَهْلِ الْكُوفَةِ لَا تُنْكِحُوا الْحَسَنَ فَإِنَّهُ رَجُلٌ مِطْلَاقٌ فَقَامَ إِلَيْهِ رَجُلٌ فَقَالَ بَلَى وَ اللَّهِ لَنُنْكِحَنَّهُ فَإِنَّهُ ابْنُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ ابْنُ فَاطِمَةَ ( عليها السلام ) فَإِنْ أَعْجَبَتْهُ أَمْسَكَ وَ إِنْ كَرِهَ طَلَّقَ .


Some of our companions from Ahmad ibn Muhammad bin Ismael bin Bazi'i from Ja'afar bin Bashir from Yahya bin abi al-'Alaa from al-Sadiq (as): al-Hassan bin 'Ali (as) divorced fifty women so 'Ali went to al-Kufah and told the people in his sermon: O people of Kufah do not wed your daughters to al-Hassan because he is a man who divorces a lot, so a man stood and said: Yes by Allah we will grant him our girls because he is the son of Rassul Allah SAWS and the son of Fatimah (as) so if he likes he keeps them and if not he divorces.
source: al-Kafi 6/56.
al-Majlisi said: Majhool.

[Muntaqim Force]

I like how the Shia keep bumping this thread, honestly they're like sadists and masochists, don't you Shias know that if you bump this one you're doing your sect more harm than good? but since you did this I might as well destroy the infallibility of one of your Imams from your own books and through your own authentic Ahadith:

We question the infallibility of the Shia Imam from their own book al-Kafi Incha-Allah in this topic.

Infallibility of al-Hassan ibn 'Ali


First of all let us see how does Allah view the Man that divorces a lot of women:

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ غَيْرِ وَاحِدٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ مَا مِنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ مِمَّا أَحَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ أَبْغَضَ إِلَيْهِ مِنَ الطَّلَاقِ وَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُبْغِضُ الْمِطْلَاقَ الذَّوَّاقَ .


'Ali ibn Ibrahim from his Father from Ibn Abi 'Umayr from several people from al-Sadiq (as): There is not one permissible act which is more hateful to Allah than divorce and Allah HATES the man who divorces a lot.
source: al-Kafi 6/54.
al-Majlisi said: Hasan.

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ طَلْحَةَ بْنِ زَيْدٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبِي ( عليه السلام ) يَقُولُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ يُبْغِضُ كُلَّ مِطْلَاقٍ ذَوَّاقٍ.


Muhammad ibn Yahya from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Yahya from Talha ibn Zaid from al-Sadiq (as): I heard my father (as) say: Allah HATES every man who divorces a lot.
source: al-Kafi 6/55.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq.

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَدِيجَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ يُحِبُّ الْبَيْتَ الَّذِي فِيهِ الْعُرْسُ وَ يُبْغِضُ الْبَيْتَ الَّذِي فِيهِ الطَّلَاقُ وَ مَا مِنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ أَبْغَضَ إِلَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ مِنَ الطَّلَاقِ .

Muhammad ibn Yahya from Muhammad ibn al-Hussein from 'Abdul-Rahman ibn Muhammad from Abu Khadeejah from Abu 'Abdullah (as): Allah loves the Bayt(house) that has a wedding ceremony and hates the Bayt which has a divorce, there is Nothing more HATEFUL to Allah than divorce.
source: al-Kafi 6/54.
al-Majlisi said: They differed on it.

Now the main event:

حُمَيْدُ بْنُ زِيَادٍ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ سَمَاعَةَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ عَلِيّاً قَالَ وَ هُوَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ لَا تُزَوِّجُوا الْحَسَنَ فَإِنَّهُ رَجُلٌ مِطْلَاقٌ فَقَامَ رَجُلٌ مِنْ هَمْدَانَ فَقَالَ بَلَى وَ اللَّهِ لَنُزَوِّجَنَّهُ وَ هُوَ ابْنُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ ابْنُ أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ( عليه السلام ) فَإِنْ شَاءَ أَمْسَكَ وَ إِنْ شَاءَ طَلَّقَ .


Humayd ibn Ziad from al-Hassan bin Muhammad bin Sama'ah from Muhammad ibn Ziad ibn 'Isa from 'Abdullah ibn Sinan from al-Sadiq (as): 'Ali said while on the Mimbar: Do not wed your girls to al-Hassan because he is a Man that Divorces a Lot, then a man from Hamdan stood up and said: Yes by Allah we will grant him our girls because he is the son of Rassul Allah SAWS and the son of Ameer al-Mumineen (as) so if he wants he keeps them and if not he divorces.
source: al-Kafi 6/56.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq.

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ بَزِيعٍ عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ بَشِيرٍ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ أَبِي الْعَلَاءِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَ بْنَ عَلِيٍّ ( عليه السلام ) طَلَّقَ خَمْسِينَ امْرَأَةً فَقَامَ عَلِيٌّ ( عليه السلام ) بِالْكُوفَةِ فَقَالَ يَا مَعَاشِرَ أَهْلِ الْكُوفَةِ لَا تُنْكِحُوا الْحَسَنَ فَإِنَّهُ رَجُلٌ مِطْلَاقٌ فَقَامَ إِلَيْهِ رَجُلٌ فَقَالَ بَلَى وَ اللَّهِ لَنُنْكِحَنَّهُ فَإِنَّهُ ابْنُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ ابْنُ فَاطِمَةَ ( عليها السلام ) فَإِنْ أَعْجَبَتْهُ أَمْسَكَ وَ إِنْ كَرِهَ طَلَّقَ .


Some of our companions from Ahmad ibn Muhammad bin Ismael bin Bazi'i from Ja'afar bin Bashir from Yahya bin abi al-'Alaa from al-Sadiq (as): al-Hassan bin 'Ali (as) divorced fifty women so 'Ali went to al-Kufah and told the people in his sermon: O people of Kufah do not wed your daughters to al-Hassan because he is a man who divorces a lot, so a man stood and said: Yes by Allah we will grant him our girls because he is the son of Rassul Allah SAWS and the son of Fatimah (as) so if he likes he keeps them and if not he divorces.
source: al-Kafi 6/56.
al-Majlisi said: Majhool.



May Allah guide them but what their people say when are shown these facts!!!!?

[TripolySunni]

May Allah guide them but what their people say when are shown these facts!!!!?

I've heard that some of their scholars said it was a "Mu'udilah" which means in English "a Problem with no solution".

This is why they started attributing "taqqiyah" to their Imams and that's a really evil accusation but it's the only solution to save their sect since most of their Hadith contradict each-other, let me give you an example from their books.

The Shia narrations prove without the shadow of a doubt that the infallible Shia Imams are a source of misguidance to their own followers before anyone else, let's see why with our own eyes from al-Kafi.


أَحْمَدُ بْنُ إِدْرِيسَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ ثَعْلَبَةَ بْنِ مَيْمُونٍ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ بْنِ أَعْيَنَ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ سَأَلْتُهُ عَنْ مَسْأَلَةٍ فَأَجَابَنِي ثُمَّ جَاءَهُ رَجُلٌ فَسَأَلَهُ عَنْهَا فَأَجَابَهُ بِخِلَافِ مَا أَجَابَنِي ثُمَّ جَاءَ رَجُلٌ آخَرُ فَأَجَابَهُ بِخِلَافِ مَا أَجَابَنِي وَ أَجَابَ صَاحِبِي فَلَمَّا خَرَجَ الرَّجُلَانِ قُلْتُ يَا ابْنَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ رَجُلَانِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْعِرَاقِ مِنْ شِيعَتِكُمْ قَدِمَا يَسْأَلَانِ فَأَجَبْتَ كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا بِغَيْرِ مَا أَجَبْتَ بِهِ صَاحِبَهُ فَقَالَ يَا زُرَارَةُ إِنَّ هَذَا خَيْرٌ لَنَا وَ أَبْقَى لَنَا وَ لَكُمْ وَ لَوِ اجْتَمَعْتُمْ عَلَى أَمْرٍ وَاحِدٍ لَصَدَّقَكُمُ النَّاسُ عَلَيْنَا وَ لَكَانَ أَقَلَّ لِبَقَائِنَا وَ بَقَائِكُمْ قَالَ ثُمَّ قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) شِيعَتُكُمْ لَوْ حَمَلْتُمُوهُمْ عَلَى الْأَسِنَّةِ أَوْ عَلَى النَّارِ لَمَضَوْا وَ هُمْ يَخْرُجُونَ مِنْ عِنْدِكُمْ مُخْتَلِفِينَ قَالَ فَأَجَابَنِي بِمِثْلِ جَوَابِ أَبِيهِ .


Ahmad ibn Idris from Muhamad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from al-Hassan ibn 'Ali from Tha'alabah ibn Maymoun from Zurarah ibn A'ayun that he said: I asked Imam al-Baqir (as) a question so the Imam gave me the answer then another man came and asked the same question so the Imam gave him a different answer, then another one came and asked about it so the Imam gave him a completely different answer than both of us. when both men left I asked the Imam: "O son of Rassul Allah, two men from 'Iraq and from your Shia came to ask you but you gave each of them different answers." He replied: "O Zurarah, this is good for us so that we may remain safer because if you all agree on this then the people will believe in it and they would be guided to us but we will not remain for long."
Later I said to his son al-Sadiq (as): "Your Shia always walk away from you with different opinions and answers" so he gave me the same reply as his father.

source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq like the Sahih.
al-Behbudi said: Sahih.


عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي نَجْرَانَ عَنْ عَاصِمِ بْنِ حُمَيْدٍ عَنْ مَنْصُورِ بْنِ حَازِمٍ قَالَ قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) مَا بَالِي أَسْأَلُكَ عَنِ الْمَسْأَلَةِ فَتُجِيبُنِي فِيهَا بِالْجَوَابِ ثُمَّ يَجِيئُكَ غَيْرِي فَتُجِيبُهُ فِيهَا بِجَوَابٍ آخَرَ فَقَالَ إِنَّا نُجِيبُ النَّاسَ عَلَى الزِّيَادَةِ وَ النُّقْصَانِ قَالَ قُلْتُ فَأَخْبِرْنِي عَنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) صَدَقُوا عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) أَمْ كَذَبُوا قَالَ بَلْ صَدَقُوا قَالَ قُلْتُ فَمَا بَالُهُمُ اخْتَلَفُوا فَقَالَ أَ مَا تَعْلَمُ أَنَّ الرَّجُلَ كَانَ يَأْتِي رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) فَيَسْأَلُهُ عَنِ الْمَسْأَلَةِ فَيُجِيبُهُ فِيهَا بِالْجَوَابِ ثُمَّ يُجِيبُهُ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ مَا يَنْسَخُ ذَلِكَ الْجَوَابَ فَنَسَخَتِ الْأَحَادِيثُ بَعْضُهَا بَعْضاً .


'Ali ibn Ibrahim from his father from ibn abi Najran from 'Assim bin Humayd from Mansour ibn Hazim who said: I said to al-Sadiq (as): "What is the matter with you, I ask a question and you give me an answer then another man comes and asks it so you give him a completely different one?" The Imam replied: "we answer people in matters of addition and deletion." I said to him: "Then tell me about the companions of Rassul-Allah SAWS do they narrate truthful narrations or do they lie?" the Imam said: "They are truthful" I asked: "Why did they differ?" he replied: "Do you not know that a man used to come to Rassul-Allah SAWS and ask a question then he answers him but later he would answer to the same question differently because the Ahadith they abrogate each other."

source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Hasan.


^ as you can see from the two narrations above, the Shia make their Imams look like liars but I as a Sunni Muslim believe that the Imam NEVER did Taqqiyah once in their lives, they were honest pious scholars and they had loads of students and sheikhs who attended their lectures and Majalis, it's disgusting how they attribute Taqqiyah and misguidance to their own "infallible" Imams.

[Muntaqim Force]

I've heard that some of their scholars said it was a "Mu'udilah" which means in English "a Problem with no solution".

I read and heard totally different from their side.

This is why they started attributing "taqqiyah" to their Imams and that's a really evil accusation but it's the only solution to save their sect since most of their Hadith contradict each-other, let me give you an example from their books.

Even our books are full with hadiths contradicting each other!! so this is not a justified argumet even the definition of Taqqiyah could be one possibility if we were living at the time of Caliph Mansur!


The Shia narrations prove without the shadow of a doubt that the infallible Shia Imams are a source of misguidance to their own followers before anyone else, let's see why with our own eyes from al-Kafi.

Shia narrations be for them, i am interested about the reason why they still take this proven fact of the history that he married and divorced so much and divorcing too much is not something good but is a sin!!!! I am sure there must be huge list of other mistakes of these Infallible as this thread is huge but i have interest in the latest one.....

Ahmad ibn Idris from Muhamad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from al-Hassan ibn 'Ali from Tha'alabah ibn Maymoun from Zurarah ibn A'ayun that he said: I asked Imam al-Baqir (as) a question so the Imam gave me the answer then another man came and asked the same question so the Imam gave him a different answer, then another one came and asked about it so the Imam gave him a completely different answer than both of us. when both men left I asked the Imam: "O son of Rassul Allah, two men from 'Iraq and from your Shia came to ask you but you gave each of them different answers." He replied: "O Zurarah, this is good for us so that we may remain safer because if you all agree on this then the people will believe in it and they would be guided to us but we will not remain for long."
Later I said to his son al-Sadiq (as): "Your Shia always walk away from you with different opinions and answers" so he gave me the same reply as his father.

source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq like the Sahih.
al-Behbudi said: Sahih.



'Ali ibn Ibrahim from his father from ibn abi Najran from 'Assim bin Humayd from Mansour ibn Hazim who said: I said to al-Sadiq (as): "What is the matter with you, I ask a question and you give me an answer then another man comes and asks it so you give him a completely different one?" The Imam replied: "we answer people in matters of addition and deletion." I said to him: "Then tell me about the companions of Rassul-Allah SAWS do they narrate truthful narrations or do they lie?" the Imam said: "They are truthful" I asked: "Why did they differ?" he replied: "Do you not know that a man used to come to Rassul-Allah SAWS and ask a question then he answers him but later he would answer to the same question differently because the Ahadith they abrogate each other."

source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Hasan.


^ as you can see from the two narrations above, the Shia make their Imams look like liars but I as a Sunni Muslim believe that the Imam NEVER did Taqqiyah once in their lives, they were honest pious scholars and they had loads of students and sheikhs who attended their lectures and Majalis, it's disgusting how they attribute Taqqiyah and misguidance to their own "infallible" Imams.

About Thaqiyah i will ask later after discussing with some reliable shia soruce because its not i doubt what you are saying but i will see if it is part of their fiqh this thaqiyah , it must be explained by them as accepting this is totally crazy. But at the moment tell me how this divorcing too much of grandson of Prophet p.b.u.h is sin considered and still clinging on Purity of Imamat!!!??

[amr123]

Looool. 'reliable' shia source. Majority of them are ****. loooool.
Self contradictory phrase. :lol:

[Muntaqim Force]

Looool. 'reliable' shia source. Majority of them are ****. loooool.
Self contradictory phrase. :lol:

I meant by reliable from them because it is their faith which we are exposing, i dont see anything to loool about, but anyways i am interested in this story of Hassan r.a divorcing too much not from only shia perspective of Pure Imam, but how come any person especially one out of only two grandsons of Prophet s.a.w can divorce so much when it is not good!!!!? so what they want to show divorcing too much is good or Imam was doing sin or what we should believe!!!? He was doing sins? he was a womenizer?? grandson of our prophet in such character? or should we say those shia scholars are lying about that he used to divorce!!!!!? i am confused but will contact and read what they say if you can not provide me with that

JazakAllah

my my post is deleted last time??

[DefendingIslam]

I meant by reliable from them because it is their faith which we are exposing, i dont see anything to loool about, but anyways i am interested in this story of Hassan r.a divorcing too much not from only shia perspective of Pure Imam, but how come any person especially one out of only two grandsons of Prophet s.a.w can divorce so much when it is not good!!!!?

We have to see the difference between the Ahadith that are brought up and how they relate to the Fiqh of divorce. Also it should be noted that most of the Senior Sahabah had many wives and they used to marry and get divorced more often than what is common in our days, so the possibility should not be dismissed outright.

This specific matter was actually brought up a number of times before, and one of the Muftis in here (Mufti Kadodia) said that Hasan (RAA) did marry and divorce many women. He said there were reasons for this such as his being the grandson of the Prophet (SAW), and women wishing to be known as having married him even if later they would be divorced by him (RAA).

[Muntaqim Force]

We have to see the difference between the Ahadith that are brought up and how they relate to the Fiqh of divorce. Also it should be noted that most of the Senior Sahabah had many wives and they used to marry and get divorced more often than what is common in our days, so the possibility should not be dismissed outright.

This specific matter was actually brought up a number of times before, and one of the Muftis in here (Mufti Kadodia) said that Hasan (RAA) did marry and divorce many women. He said there were reasons for this such as his being the grandson of the Prophet (SAW), and women wishing to be known as having married him even if later they would be divorced by him (RAA).

So what the stance of a real muslim should be regarding this matter? Hassan r.a was right ? or Hasan r.a was wrong?

[DefendingIslam]

^

Since the rules of divorce allow for a man to divorce as many women as he marries, there is no blame on any person who does so, so it cannot be said that anyone who divorced did a 'wrong' thing or committed a 'sin'. Even the Hadith that mentions it as 'detestable' points to its permissibility, and generally in Islam, those actions that are permissible are not 'wrong' or 'sins'.

[Muntaqim Force]

^

Since the rules of divorce allow for a man to divorce as many women as he marries, there is no blame on any person who does so, so it cannot be said that anyone who divorced did a 'wrong' thing or committed a 'sin'. Even the Hadith that mentions it as 'detestable' points to its permissibility, and generally in Islam, those actions that are permissible are not 'wrong' or 'sins'.

JazakAllah so it means we can not refute the infallibility argument of rafdis of Hasan r.a over this divorce issue!!?

[TripolySunni]

JazakAllah so it means we can not refute the infallibility argument of rafdis of Hasan r.a over this divorce issue!!?

Don't waste time arguing in Ramadhan the narrations of the Shia are very clear.

Ja'afar says: Allah hates those who divorce a lot.
'Ali says: Don't wed your girls to al-Hassan he divorces a lot.

clear.

[Muntaqim Force]

Don't waste time arguing in Ramadhan the narrations of the Shia are very clear.

Ja'afar says: Allah hates those who divorce a lot.
'Ali says: Don't wed your girls to al-Hassan he divorces a lot.

clear.

Salaam
yes you are right about not wasting time in ramadan about it. InshAllah after ramadan.

[AbuFatimah]

brother tripoly, your expertise are needed:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?75903-The-12-shia-imams-in-sahih-muslim

[wellwisher]

brother tripoly, your expertise are needed:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?75903-The-12-shia-imams-in-sahih-muslim

Did the Prophet (saw) name the Twelve caliphs?

History proves that Prophet(saw) didn’t name the twelve Imams or caliphs( click here)

We would like to add other versions of this 12 Caliphs Hadith which clear up the confusion some people might have, that does the 12 caliphs hadith refers to shia imams in any way?
عن عبد الله بن عمر قال يكون في هذه الأمة اثنا عشر خليفة أبو بكر الصديق أصبتم اسمه عمر الفاروق قرن من حديد أصبتم اسمه و عثمان بن عفان ذو النورين أوتي كفلين من الأجر قتل مظلوما أصبتم اسمه
الراوي: عقبة بن أوس السدوسي المحدث: الألباني – المصدر: تخريج كتاب السنة – الصفحة أو الرقم: 1154
خلاصة حكم المحدث: إسناده صحيح
Uqbah bin Aws al Sadusi narrated: Ibn Umar RA said: In this nation there shall be twelve Caliphs, Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq, you got his name right, Omar Al-Farouq as an iron horn you got his name right, Othman who is Zhu Nourain (the one with two lights) has been given two portions of mercy for he was innocently killed, you got his name right.
source: Takhreej Kitab al Sunnah 1154 by Sheikh al Albani.
Hadith Grading: Chain SAHIH.

Comment: As you can see Ibn Umar RA probably narrated this right after Uthman RA died and it shows that they never knew these twelve caliphs by name and also he considered the first three from amongst the 12 mentioned in that Hadith.

Moreover, the hadith present in authentic sunni books speaks about 12 caliphs not Imams. And even Imams are not the same as Caliphs.

We find that often shias trying to argue that Khaliph and Imam is nothing but the same, but it is infact its false according to sunnis but even according to shias narrations.

عليا قال من لم يقل إني رابع الخلفاء فعليه لعنة الله ثم ذكر ع آدم و داود و موسى ع
Ali said: Whoever wouldn’t say that I am fourth caliph, upon him curse of Allah, then alaihi salam mentioned Adam, Dawud and Musa (alaihuma salam). [Siraat Al-Mustaqeen, by Ali bin yunus Alamili vol. 2, pg. 47] Online reference (click here)

So, basically ali(ra) refers to himself as fourth caliph after those 3 prophets.

Similar tradition is mentioned in Ibn Shahr Ashoob’s book called Manaaqib:

قال أمير المؤمنين عليه‏السلام من لم يقل إني رابع الخلفاء فعليه لعنة اللّه

And even explained by shia scholar that, how Hz ali(ra) was the fourth caliph.

سؤال 675 :
قال أمير المؤمنين عليه‏السلام من لم يقل إني رابع الخلفاء فعليه لعنة اللّه‏ فكيف يكون ذلك ، أجب على السؤال بدليل قرآني ؟ جواب : فقال الإمام الصادق عليه‏السلام : الخليفة الأول فهو آدم عليه‏السلام ، قوله : «وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً». الثاني داوود عليه‏السلام : «يَا دَاوُودُ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاكَ خَلِيفَةً فِي الاْءَرْضِ» . الثالث هارون عليه‏السلام خليفة موسى . الرابع علي عليه‏السلام خليفة محمّد صلى‏الله‏عليه‏و‏آله‏وسلم

(reference, click here)

Now from the shia ahadees and answers of shia scholars, we find that hz ali(ra) was the fourth caliph. But the point to ponder is that, hz Ibrahim(ra), hz Ismail(as) etc were not included in the list of Caliphs. Though they were Imams as the shias say. The only plausible answer to this is that the reason they were not called as Caliphs but as Imams is because they didn’t govern the state or Ummah, So the same applies to the 9 shias Imams since none of them govern the state or Ummah, though they might have been Imams. Thus the narration present in sunni ahadees of 12 caliphs in no way fits to shias Imams.
The Khaliphs to succeed prophet(Saw) surely were not the Shia Imam.

1. This can be easily verified by analyzing one of the authentic narration of prophet(saw), where he made a prophecy that the father’s name of the final caliph(i.e Mahdi) will be Abdullah.

Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: “The world will not come to an end until the Arabs are ruled by a man from my family whose name is the same as mine and whose father’s name is the same as my father’s.” (Sunan Abi Dawud, 11/370).

But we know that the name of father of 12th shia imam was Hassan Al askari . This leaves no doubt that the caliphs prophesized in authentic sunni traditions are in no way the Shia Imams.

2. Abubakar(ra) was going to be one of the twelve caliphs.

يكون خلفي اثنا عشر خليفة أبو بكر لا يلبث إلا قليلا.
الراوي: ابن عمر المحدث: محمد ابن عبد الوهاب – المصدر: الرد على الرافضة لابن عبدالوهاب – الصفحة أو الرقم: 9
خلاصة حكم المحدث: إسناده حسن

The Prophet said: “There will be twelve KHALIFAS after me, ABU BAKR’S will be not be but a short one.” (Grading: Isnad of the Hadith is HASSAN.)

Comment: This was a prophesy of Prophet(Saw), not a command.

http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/did-prophetsaw-appoint-ahlebayt-as-his-successors-to-succeed-after-his-death/


Did Prophet(Saw) really named the 12 shia Imams or was it a shia fabrication?

Well before we expose this absurd fabrication, we would like to expose some deceptions of shian e dajjal even on this matter. The shian e dajjal often label shia books as sunni books which contains some fabrications like the names of 12 shia imams in order to support their creed. These are the books of two scholars they often quote, both of these were shia books.

Shia scholars who are introduced as sunni scholars by shian e dajjal

1.Sulayman Ibn Muhammad Al-Qunduzi Al-Hanafi:

He is the author of Yanabi’ Al-Mawada. shia scholar Aga Buzurg Tehrani included his book “Al-Thareea” , which is an Encyclopedia on Shia books. He said [25/290] : “ Even though the Shiasm of the author is not known, but he is Gnostic, and the Book is considered to be one of the books of Shia” Refer this (link)

2. Ibrahim Ibn Muhammad Al-Juwaini (also called Al-Hamweeni):
He is the author of “Faraid Al-Simtayn” He has been included in the book “Ayan Al-Shia” , an Encyclodia of Shia prominent figures, by Al-Ameen Al-Amili. Aga Buzurgh Tehrani, in “Thayl Kashf Al-Dhunoon” p. 70, pointed out that the chief of the Mongols, Ghazan, embraced Islam through him and became a Shiite, and also his brother Shah Khudabanda who made his Shiasm apparent. Amongst the sheikhs that he was taught by, are Ibn Al-Muttahir Al-Hili and Khawaja Nusair Al-Din Al-Tusi. These are two prominent 12er figures. (refer this link)

Now as far as authentic sunni reports are concerned then they prove, shia doctrine to be incorrect , because according to authentic narrations from Prophet(Saw), he(saw) didn’t appoint any Imam or caliph.

Sahi muslim 4.661: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?” He said, “Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship.”

Comment: This narration proves that there were no divinely appointed Imams, otherwise Prophet(saw) would have commanded and warned that obey the ones who are divinely appointed by Allah, or would have said, obey the one to whom I made caliph. But prophet(saw) said obey the one “who will be given the pledge of allegiance first”. This proves that there was no divinely appointed leader after prophet(Saw).



Secondly, according to authentic narrations the name of the father of final caliph(i.e Mahdi) will be Abdullah.

Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: “The world will not come to an end until the Arabs are ruled by a man from my family whose name is the same as mine and whose father’s name is the same as my father’s.” (Sunan Abi Dawud, 11/370).

Note: We know that the name of prophet’s(saw) father was Abdullah, That’s why Prophet(saw) was called Muhammad ibn Abdullah. However the name of father of 12th shia imam was Hassan Al askari .

http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/part-3-shia-interpretation-of-hadith-thaqalayn-under-microscope/

[TripolySunni]

brother tripoly, your expertise are needed:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?75903-The-12-shia-imams-in-sahih-muslim

No need he's doing Taqqiyah, this is the month of Taqqiyah for them, when they do it they're rewards for lying will be doubled in the blessed month.

Take it as a general rule, whenever you see a guy with the username "Abu Bakr" or "'Umar" and he says he wants to convert to Shia then know that he's a liar, also the way he posed his topic and his questions and his story and all that nonsense sadly that's how low they can go.

It's been a week into Ramadhan and already we've had around 4 Taqqiyah users and funny thing is two of them were called Abu Bakr LOL! I mean just take a look at this other Abu Bakr who posted 3 days ago:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?75736-Can-someone-please-explain-this-Hadith

Check out this other taqqiyah user who posted yesterday, I just saw his post too bad the mods realised his evil ambitions and locked the thread, he says he's a Hanafi yet he posts the first three Ahadith from Sahih al-Bukhari and the last big one is a Shia Hadith from a Shia book called "Amali al-Saduq":
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?75885-The-way-Hazrat-Ali-(as)-prayed

[Taliban1]

:salam:

TirpolySunni Brother,

I always heard about the Majlis these Shias have where you can have sex with anyone you like.

Is it true?

[TripolySunni]

:salam:

TirpolySunni Brother,

I always heard about the Majlis these Shias have where you can have sex with anyone you like.

Is it true?

السلام عليكم

I wouldn't know, I can't accuse them of anything like this since I have no proof. I've heard they're legalising whore houses under the name of Mut'ah.

[Taliban1]

السلام عليكم

I wouldn't know, I can't accuse them of anything like this since I have no proof. I've heard they're legalising whore houses under the name of Mut'ah.

:ws:

The story about it is very popular in Pakistan. It's called Shaam e Ghareeba. Everyone gathers in a room and then the lights are switched off. Whoever you get hold of you do zina with them. Astaghfirullah!!!!

There's another story which is very popular is that a guy did zina with someone and put a ring on her finger. When he came home, he saw the finger on his mum's hand. He became so disgusted that he ran away from his house and became a muslim.

One of my Alim friend and Imam of our Masjid in Karachi, he said he saw the invitation letter of this majlis. They put the names of abu bakr :anhu: and Umar :anhu: outside the door on the floor and everyone has to step on them. Naoozubillah min Zalik.

These stories have reached Tawatur.. There must be some truth in it!

[TripolySunni]

:ws:

The story about it is very popular in Pakistan. It's called Shaam e Ghareeba. Everyone gathers in a room and then the lights are switched off. Whoever you get hold of you do zina with them. Astaghfirullah!!!!

There's another story which is very popular is that a guy did zina with someone and put a ring on her finger. When he came home, he saw the finger on his mum's hand. He became so disgusted that he ran away from his house and became a muslim.

One of my Alim friend and Imam of our Masjid in Karachi, he said he saw the invitation letter of this majlis. They put the names of abu bakr :anhu: and Umar :anhu: outside the door on the floor and everyone has to step on them. Naoozubillah min Zalik.

These stories have reached Tawatur.. There must be some truth in it!

I can guarantee you the story about Abu bakr (as) and 'Umar (as) are true, as for the Zinah party that's just disgusting.

[TripolySunni]

This anti-Twelver website will launch in 4 hours:

http://www.ansar.org/

[Haq Chaar Yaar]

:ws:

The story about it is very popular in Pakistan. It's called Shaam e Ghareeba. Everyone gathers in a room and then the lights are switched off. Whoever you get hold of you do zina with them. Astaghfirullah!!!!

There's another story which is very popular is that a guy did zina with someone and put a ring on her finger. When he came home, he saw the finger on his mum's hand. He became so disgusted that he ran away from his house and became a muslim.

One of my Alim friend and Imam of our Masjid in Karachi, he said he saw the invitation letter of this majlis. They put the names of abu bakr :anhu: and Umar :anhu: outside the door on the floor and everyone has to step on them. Naoozubillah min Zalik.

These stories have reached Tawatur.. There must be some truth in it!

:salam:

I have heard the above too...Would be interesting to find out if this is true or not....

May Allah :taala: give us all the taufeeq to defend the Khulaf-e-Rashdeen (RA), the companions of our beloved Nabi :saw: & the Ummu l-Mu’minin (RA)

[amr123]

This anti-Twelver website will launch in 4 hours:

http://www.ansar.org/

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[dr.ati]

:salam:

TirpolySunni Brother,

I always heard about the Majlis these Shias have where you can have sex with anyone you like.

Is it true?

http://www.islamiyat.tk/mazameen/Shiyat/DawatMutta.htm

[wellwisher]

Salaam
yes you are right about not wasting time in ramadan about it. InshAllah after ramadan.

hah, just confirmed through shia chat , when saw his statements on ayesha(as). this was another shiatu dajjal under taqaiyyah....

he must have burned out, by my response to his question that why dont i do mutah. lol

[Muntaqim Force]

hah, just confirmed through shia chat , when saw his statements on ayesha(as). this was another shiatu dajjal under taqaiyyah....

he must have burned out, by my response to his question that why dont i do mutah. lol

I wish you could understand the meaning of my Id.

[Muntaqim Force]

This anti-Twelver website will launch in 4 hours:

http://www.ansar.org/

What happened to it previously?

[wellwisher]

I wish you could understand the meaning of my Id.

why? does it mean undercover SHIA :P

[Muntaqim Force]

hah, just confirmed through shia chat , when saw his statements on ayesha(as). this was another shiatu dajjal under taqaiyyah....

he must have burned out, by my response to his question that why dont i do mutah. lol

Think when one "Well Wisher" can be a shia tul dajjal and one like you than why cant my id, and how come this is SUNNI forum and not WAHABI or SIPA e SAHABA forum, you people are same from Haq Chaar Yaar sipa e sahaba (terrorist outlawed in Pakistan) forum. What is going on here!!!?

[Muntaqim Force]

why? does it mean undercover SHIA :P

Force means bond in this ID and muntaqim comes from two friends in the way of truth. Anyways forget about it, it is Ramadan and i do not want to waste time in useless discussions. After Ramadan will ask Mr Tripoly from where i left.

[Muntaqim Force]

I can guarantee you the story about Abu bakr (as) and 'Umar (as) are true, as for the Zinah party that's just disgusting.

Ramadan and you are keeping yourself busy with such nasbi lies !!!! , this zinah party has no existence. And muslims are not living as in stone age, we know very well who promote such lies infront of Muslim brothers and their realities. I saw your ID on Haq Yaar Chaar forum too. That's not a sunni forum. Either respect ramadan or carry on with what you gonna earn you end.

JazaKAllah

[TripolySunni]

Ramadan and you are keeping yourself busy with such nasbi lies !!!! , this zinah party has no existence. And muslims are not living as in stone age, we know very well who promote such lies infront of Muslim brothers and their realities. I saw your ID on Haq Yaar Chaar forum too. That's not a sunni forum. Either respect ramadan or carry on with what you gonna earn you end.

JazaKAllah

Why are you so angry :)

I've seen your ID on Shiachat:

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/da698534.jpg

This was posted today by either you or another "Muntaqim Force". I also like this verse you posted on that thread:

Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allaah, but it is He Who deceives them (4:142).

[Muntaqim Force]

Why are you so angry :)

I've seen your ID on Shiachat:

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/da698534.jpg

This was posted today by either you or another "Muntaqim Force". I also like this verse you posted on that thread:

Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allaah, but it is He Who deceives them (4:142).

LOL , you think i would be writing articles with this ID and still try to disguise as something which i am not into sunni forum so they wont caught me!!!!? only a person has to be very lame to come up with this believe. I do not say that id you are showing from shia chat is some thing strange to me but it is not mine.

JazakAllah

[TripolySunni]

LOL , you think i would be writing articles with this ID and still try to disguise as something which i am not into sunni forum so they wont caught me!!!!? only a person has to be very lame to come up with this believe. I do not say that id you are showing from shia chat is some thing strange to me but it is not mine.

JazakAllah

So that ID is not yours? the one on Shiachat? I was just asking.

[Muntaqim Force]

Why are you so angry :)

I've seen your ID on Shiachat:

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/da698534.jpg

This was posted today by either you or another "Muntaqim Force". I also like this verse you posted on that thread:

Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allaah, but it is He Who deceives them (4:142).

I am angry that you are making me feel sorry for how my side is (this forum). You advised me earlier under Hasan r.a posts to refrain from such argues due to ramadan. I accepted and appreciated your stance but now you are coming up with zina party stories which i myself witnessed by go into couple of those gatherings and it is nothing like that at all.

[Muntaqim Force]

So that ID is not yours? the one on Shiachat? I was just asking.

Tell me are you salafi? wahabi? Because this is sunni forum, i do not need guidance from wahabi

[Muntaqim Force]

So that ID is not yours? the one on Shiachat? I was just asking.

will meet and answer after ramadan, this whole thread is strange and is under wahabi control.

[TripolySunni]

I am angry that you are making me feel sorry for how my side is (this forum). You advised me earlier under Hasan r.a posts to refrain from such argues due to ramadan. I accepted and appreciated your stance but now you are coming up with zina party stories which i myself witnessed by go into couple of those gatherings and it is nothing like that at all.

I am asking you, is that your ID on Shaichat or not? YES or NO.

As for the Zinah gathering I never said anything, it was brother "Taliban" who did and I told him I don't know. NOt my fault if you don't understand English.

[Muntaqim Force]

So that ID is not yours? the one on Shiachat? I was just asking.

well my statement is very clear

[TripolySunni]

well my statement is very clear

No not really I didn't understand anything you said, make it clearer.

[TripolySunni]

will meet and answer after ramadan, this whole thread is strange and is under wahabi control.

No not wahhabies, it's under Nazi, FreeMasons and Illuminati control. But you were close :p

[Muntaqim Force]

No not really I didn't understand anything you said, make it clearer.



I do not say that id you are showing from shia chat is some thing strange to me but it is not mine.


further discussion after ramadan and please verify your Madhab with me, are you following the wahabi creed under Shafi'i disguise?

[TripolySunni]

further discussion after ramadan and please verify your Madhab with me, are you following the wahabi creed under Shafi'i disguise?

Nope I am a Shafi'i, If you saw my prayer you'd know, but you haven't answered my question is that your ID on Shiachat or is it another guy disguised as you?

[UmHasan]

A simple and striaghtforward question to Muntaqim Force, as I do not have the time to go through all your posts: Are you Shia? Please answer yes or no before you write anything else.

[wellwisher]

further discussion after ramadan and please verify your Madhab with me, are you following the wahabi creed under Shafi'i disguise?

why didnt you put your madhab as shia? why it says none? Wallahi (you are a shia.)

And why did you pretend to be a sunni initially? was it taqiyyah?

[TripolySunni]

A simple and striaghtforward question to Muntaqim Force, as I do not have the time to go through all your posts: Are you Shia? Please answer yes or no before you write anything else.

I am so sorry for this sister LOL, it's funny though you gotta admit, how many of them has it been since the beginning of Ramadhan? 4-5?

[Taliban1]

further discussion after ramadan and please verify your Madhab with me, are you following the wahabi creed under Shafi'i disguise?

Muntaqim Force,

Sorry but none of your posts make any sense at all.

Please can you tell me if that Shaam e Ghareebah stories are true or not?

[TripolySunni]

Common Muntaqim may Allah put us and you on a straight path, is that your ID on ShiaCHat or someone else's?

[Muntaqim Force]

Nope I am a Shafi'i, If you saw my prayer you'd know, but you haven't answered my question is that your ID on Shiachat or is it another guy disguised as you?

I have answered it twice, its colleague, my reliable shia source.

But tell me, if you are shafii, then what are you doing over the outlawed terrorist organization's page!!!?

[TripolySunni]

I have answered it twice, its colleague, my reliable shia source.

But tell me, if you are shafii, then what are you doing over the outlawed terrorist organization's page!!!?

Does your Colleague Also Post on Sunni-Forum?

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/d31a5b0e.jpg

[Taliban1]

Common Muntaqim may Allah put us and you on a straight path, is that your ID on ShiaCHat or someone else's?

:)

[Taliban1]

Does your Colleague Also Post on Sunni-Forum?

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/d31a5b0e.jpg

Muntaqim Force,

We don't find it hard to swallow to follow Ahlul Bayt.

Can you please explain what you meant there?

[TripolySunni]

But tell me, if you are shafii, then what are you doing over the outlawed terrorist organization's page!!!?

Destroying your corrupt Madhab, ya Taqqiyah User.

[UmHasan]

Okay, party over for now. All off topic posts will be deleted in due course.

[TripolySunni]

Okay, party over for now. All off topic posts will be deleted in due course.

It's ok Sister, you can leave the Taqqiyah, after all it's not really off-topic "Various scandalous and corrupt beliefs of twelver Shia"

May Allah reward you all,

[Taliban1]

Man, shouldn't have banned the dude. He was exposing shiaism.

[Taliban1]

Why have these shias become so active in Ramadhan

[TripolySunni]

Why have these shias become so active in Ramadhan

Ramadhan is the month of Ibadaat and Siyam to the Muslims.

To the Shia it is the month of Taqqiyah.

[amr123]

:salam:

Ah ha, finally he got exposed. I guess we can expect more.

[brother19791]

as salaam alaikum

taken from : http://answersforshiafriend.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/twenty-famous-questions-of-the-shia-that-converted-the-sunni-scholar/

Twenty Famous Questions of the Shia that converted the Sunni Scholar!

Posted by answersforshiafriend on July 10, 2009

Personally I think one should be very very naive and hopeless to become a 12er Shia by hearing these questions. The funny thing is that except the question number 20, other questions have nothing to do with 12ers Shia. You can be a Zaidi, Esmayeelee and even a moderate Sunni and rise the same questions. Problem is that 12er Shia think by proving a fault on (say) Omar, you can prove that there are 12 infallible Imams and the 12th is now in occultation. If the story of the converse of that Sheikh is true I should say that I am happy he never faced one of the Christian missionaries (or have not seen their site where they have done all their efforts to bring doubts in the mind of Muslims) as by the same token he could become a Christian.

I see Shia repeating these questions and as no Sunni as far as I know bothers enough to give them answer it seems like Shia really believes that these are really something.
Here are my own responses to these questions. . I wrote these just out of my mind as I am (at the moment) not in a situation to give proper references. I am giving these very short replies and God knows that my only intention is to help you understand that things are not that easy that some people thought.

I am repeating the questions for the convenience of readers.

1. History testifies that when the Prophet (saaws) declared his Prophethood
(saaws), the Bani Hashim were to a boycott by the Quraysh1 . Hadhrath Abu
Talib (as) took the tribe to an area called Shib Abi Talib where they
remained for three years, suffering from immense hardship2 . Where were
Hadhrath Abu Bakr and Hadhrath Umar during that period? They were in Makkah
so why did they not help the Prophet (saaws)? If they were unable to join
the Prophet (saaws) at the Shib Abi Talib is there any evidence that they
provided any type of support (food etc), breaching the agreement that the
Quraysh boycott all food / business transactions with Bani Hashim?

Answer: Yes there is, read the history in works like Seerah Ibnu Hishaam etc. ,you will see that during the same period Aboobakr who was once a wealthy man ended up with almost no money because of his efforts to help Muslims. Omar was also very active during this period to support Islam. Refer to the records of that period in Sunni books of history. The question and any replies to it has nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

2. Hadhrath Fatima Zahra died 6 months after her father (saaws), Abu Bakr
died two and a half years later and Hadhrath Umar in 24 Hijri. Despite
their later deaths how is it that they attained burial sites next to the
Prophet (saaws) and not Hadhrath Fatima (as)? Did she request that she be
buried away from her father? If so, why? Or did the Muslims prevent her
burial? (see Sahih Bukhari Arabic – English Vol 5 hadith number 546).

Answer: No records even from Shia sources implies that people prevent Fatima’s burial near his father. Also there are no records that she had requested to be buried next to his father. Aboobakr and Omar had requested to be buried next to the prophet. That easy. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

3. Amongst the companions Hadhrath Abu Bakr is viewed as the most superior.

If this is indeed the case then why did the Prophet (saaws) not select him
to be his brother when he (saaws) divided the companions in to pairs on the
Day of Brotherhood? Rather, the Prophet (saaws) chose Hadhrath Ali (as)
saying “You are my brother in this world and the next”3, so on what basis
is Hadhrath Abu Bakr closer?

Answer: There are many records of the prophet praising Aboobakr and calling him his brother( see Sahih Bukhari, vol.5, virtures of Abu Bakr), of course Shia considers all of them to be fabricated!. The fact that he did not choose him as his brother when he divided the companions cannot reduce any thing from Aboobakr. He has his own rank and Ali has his own. Aboobakr was friend of the holy prophet from before his prophet hood until his passing away. This is a fact that even Shia sources confess to. It is also referred to in Quran, the verse of Qar . Also the Prophet choose him to be his fellow companion during migration and he was his partner in the cave. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

All companions had different distinctions. Ali (r) had the distinction of being selected as his brother along with many other distinctions, but Abu Bakr also had his share of distinctions…for instance

· He was a good friend and neighbor of Prophet Muhammad (saw) before the revelation of Quran to Muhammad saw.

· He was the first adult man and the first one outside the family of Prophet Muhammad saw to accept Islam.

· He had the unique distinction of being given the titles of ‘Siddiq’ and ‘Atiq’ by the Holy Prophet.

· Of all the companions, Rasool Allah (s) chose Abu Bakr as his companion for his journey to Madina for the Hijrat and he was his companion in Ghar e Sour about which the ayat of the Quran was also revealed.

· The Holy Prophet appointed Abu Bakr as the first “Amirul Hajj” in the history of Islam.

· Holy Prophet also appointed Abu Bakr as the Imam of Masjid e Nabawi to lead the prayers in his lifetime.

· In his last address at Masjid-i-Nabvi, the Holy Prophet ordered that all doors opening into the mosque should be closed except the door leading to the house of Abu Bakr.

· The Prophet said, “If I were to take a Khalil, I would have taken Abu Bakr, but he is my brother and my companion (in Islam).” Bukhari

How can anybody say and decide themselves that because Ali (r) was selected as his brother – therefore he is the best and the closest and superior than the rest while it is a fact that Holy Prophet also declared Abu Bakr as his brother and companion in Islam. Moreover if seen without bias and prejudice what can be more superior than being the Amirul Hajj and the Imam of Masjid e Nabawi and that too during the life time of Rasool Allah and selected by him!!?

4. The books of Ahlul Sunnah are replete with traditions narrated by
Hadhrath Aysha, Abu Hurraira and Abdullah Ibne Umar. Their narrations far
exceed those relayed Hadhrath Ali (as), Hadhrath Fatima (sa), Hadhrath
Hassan (as) and Hadhrath Hussain (as)? Why is this the case? When the
Prophet (saaws) declared “I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is it’s Gate”,
did Ali (as) benefit less from the company of the Prophet (saaws) than
these individuals?

Answer:The answer is very easy and it shows the ignorance of the designer of the question. Unlike the Shia ahadith, the vast majority of Sunni ahadith are those that the narration goes back to the prophet. It is obvious that Ayesha and Aboohorayrah were adults when they were with the prophet, while Hasanayn were kids. Ebne Omar was older than hasanayn at the time of the prophet so he had more chance as compared to them to narrate from the prophet. Apart from this, the political situations made Hasanayn engaged with many things. Ebne Omar was not like this. Also it’s up to the individuals whether they like to narrate something or not. As for Ali (RA), Omar (RA) and Aboobakr (RA) too have very low number of Ahadith. Does that mean that Bukhari didn’t like them?! Also Fatimatuz Zahra passed away only about three months after the passing away of the prophet, how many ahadith does one expect to be recorded from her in these critical three months? The question actually should be directed to Shia. How many ahadith does Shia have from Hasanayn? The question and any replies to it has nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ali (r) all passed away soon after the demise of our Holy Prophet. Where as Aisha, Abu Huraira and Ibn Umar lived a long life…they had a longer time to interact with the next generation (Tabaeen) and pass on their knowledge to them. They had the time and the opportunity to establish hadith classes and teach hadiths to others. That is why there are few traditions related from Abu Bakr, Usman and Ali (r) while Ayesha, Abu Huraira and ibn umar have more narrations from them.

If you look at Shia books, they mostly have hadiths which do not even have a chain of narrators leading up to Prophet Muhammad let alone being narrated by Ali or Fatima. They reject hadiths from Ayesha – the Umhatul Momineen as the wives are titled in the Quran .Their most authentic Hadith book called Al Kafi was written by Yaqoob al-Kulyanee around 300 years after the death of Ali (r)!! and also after the death of their 11 imams.

Where as Sunii Hadith collection started during the life time of Rasool Allah and the first manuscript of hadiths was by ibn Habban who was the student of Abu Huraira and sunni hadiths books have narrations from all the companions including Ali (r) and Fatima and others…..

5. If Hadhrath Ali (as) had no differences with the three Khalifa’s why did
he not participate in any battles that took place during their reigns,
particularly when Jihad against the Kaffir’s is deemed a major duty upon
the Muslim? If he did not view it as necessary at that time, then why did
he during his own Khilafath unsheath his sword and participate in the
battles of Jamal, Sifeen and Naharwan?

Answer: Many Sahabah remained in the city for other purposes, as they were perceived as unique sources of knowledge, do you have any evidence that they all gone except Ali? So would you say that they were all against Omar?! There is in the history that Hassan was participating in the attack on Tabarestan. Also we know that Salman (one of the best followers of Ali according to Shia) got the authority from Omar to rule Fars. In what basis would you say that giving consultancy and advice to Omar while being against him is fine (as Ali did) but participating in fighting with Koffar and Moshrekin (which Ali endorses in Nahjul Balagha) is not fine for Ali? Read Najhul Balagha and you see that Ali endorses the war. Refer to the 146th ceremony of Nahjul balagha (or one before or after, depending on the edition). It’s a pity that we try to attribute our own hostility and hatred to Ali to prove our points. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

It is a historical fact which the shia seem to ignore that Ali (r) was an active member of the Khilafat during the reign of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman and was in the Majlis e shora as he was expert in many fields and had a lot of knowledge. His opinion in court cases was sought which shows that he was busy in other matters and was not part of the army because his advice was needed more in the court then in the battle field.

Secondly, this is proof in itself that Ali (r) accepted the Khilafat of Abu Bakr and Umar and Usman (r) as he did not rise against them and ask for his right of khilafat. If he was wronged and injustice was done against him, he being so brave, would definitely have risen against him as he did against the Caliphate of Muawiyah.

So if he accepted the caliphate of abu bakr n umar n uthman and never rose to do jihad against them and ask for his right to caliphate then why can’t the shias accept their caliphate??? Do they want to imply that Ali (r) was a coward (naauzobillah) during their reign? How come he suddenly became brave and fought against muawiyah? Was he brave or was he a coward!!!???

It is a well known fact that he was one of the bravest soldiers who fought many battles during the life time of Rasool Allah. He never kept quit at any injustice and it is not at all possible that he kept quiet during the reign of Abu Bakr and Umar and Usman and did not wage any jihad against them.


6. If (as is the usual allegation) the Shi’as were responsible for killing
Imam Hussain (as) then why did the majority Ahl’ul Sunnah not come to his
aid? After all they were in the majority, there were millions of such
individuals, what was their postion at that time?

Answer:

Firstly there were no Shias or Sunnis at that time. All were Muslims. Read the history of Kerbala By Dr. Israr Ahmed to find out the truth about what exactly happened at Karbala from the following link.

Briefly stating Hasan (r) first of all he never expected this to happen and he never went to fight a war – as he went with very few men including his family with women and children. No one goes for Jihad with women and children!! He was traveling to Kufa on their invitations of support, not Jihad. So there is no question of other Muslims joining him for jihad as there really was no call for Jihad! and most of all at that time there was no media to inform others about what what happening as sending messages took time as journeys were on foot or camels or horses. Dont forget that the tragedy of kerbala happend in what is not Iraq and the Muslim mainland of Arabia was very very far off.The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

7. If Hadhrath Umar was correct when he denied the dying request of the
Prophet (saaws) on the premise that the `Qur’an is sufficient for us’
(Sahih Bukhari Vol 7 hadith number 573) what will be the reward for
accusing the Prophet (saaws) of speaking nonsense? (See Sahih al-Bukhari
Vol 5 number 716)

Answer:

Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 468

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:

When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was ‘Umar bin Al-Khatttab, the Prophet said, “Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray.” ‘Umar said, “The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Quran, so Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.” The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, “Come near so that Allah’s Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray,” while some of them said what ‘Umar said.

Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 716

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

Thursday! And how great that Thursday was! The ailment of Allah’s Apostle became worse (on Thursday) and he said, fetch me something so that I may write to you something after which you will never go astray.” The people (present there) differed in this matter, and it was not right to differ before a prophet. Some said, “What is wrong with him ? (Do you think ) he is delirious (seriously ill)? Ask him ( to understand his state ).” So they went to the Prophet and asked him again. The Prophet said, “Leave me, for my present state is better than what you call me for.” Then he ordered them to do three things. He said, “Turn the pagans out of the ‘Arabian Peninsula; respect and give gifts to the foreign delegations as you have seen me dealing with them.” (Said bin Jubair, the sub-narrator said that Ibn Abbas kept quiet as rewards the third order, or he said, “I forgot it.”)

Please read the Hadiths again, Umar (r) never accused Prophet (s) of speaking nonsense. Also, Umar (r) was not there alone, there were a number of Sahabas there and there was disagreement among them about this issue. Prophet (s) wanted to tell the people something which would prevent them from going astray. Quranis the Book of Allah and its sole aim is to guide mankind and prevent them from going astray that is why some sahabas, including Umar (r) did not want to bother the Prophet (s) in his illness with the task of getting something written down. It was due to their love and concern for the health of the messenger. Why do we have to see the event in such negative light!! It is only the biased and the deviated who would think such a thing and it is shameful to think that Prophet (s) was so helpless that because of Umar (r) he was unable to get his dying wish written down?!!

Shias claim that Umar r got in the way of writing down the wish and they also claim that Prophet (s) died in the arms of Ali (r) – why did he not get his dying wish written down then to his Ahle Bait? Where were the Ahle Bait when this event of the pen happened. This hadiths is narrated by ibn Abbas – the son of Abbas (r) –whom the Shias regard , so why did he not himself get the wish written down? This event happend on a Thursday and prophet (s) died on Monday , Prophet (s) lived for three days after this event and if he wanted he could have gotten his wish written down somehow!!

Shias also claim that in this event Prophet (s) wanted to give his will and select Ali (r) as the khaleefah, however they also claim that Ali (r) had been selected as the Khalifa at the Ghadir Khumm. – so why is this pen event so important.

So there is great discrepancy amongst the Shia version of facts!

Hadith clearly states that it was something for the Ummah which the prophet s wanted to get written down and not his will! [ The truth is he died in the house of Aisha (r) in her arms and he was buried in the room of Aisha (r)]

The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

8. Allah (swt) sent 124,000 Prophet’s to guide mankind. Is there any proof
that on the deaths of any one of these Prophet’s his companions failed to
attend his funeral preferring to participate in the selection of his
successor? If no such precedent exists then why did the Prophet (saaws)’s
companions follow this approach?

Answer: What the shias claim is false and Abu Bakr and Umar (r) went to saqifa and then returned back to take part in the funeral preparations.It was Abu Bakar who informed the other companions that Prophets are buried where they die and this RasulAllah should be buried in the room of Aisha where he died. The question is is there any evidence to proof that they were not part of the funeral preparations??!! and The question is: Is there any evidence that there were chain of non-prophet successors from a prophet, all being infallible, all being in the same generation? With no mention of their names in their holy books? Is there any evidence that one of them goes to occultation for centuries while still being in this world? The question and any replies to it has nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

9. Of the 124,000 Prophets’ that Allah (swt) sent, what evidence is there
that they left everything for their followers as Sadaqah (Charity)? If they
did then why did the Prophet (saaws)’s wives not give all their possessions
to the Islamic State? After all, Ahl’ul Sunnah consider the wives to be
Ahlulbayt. Sadaqah is haram on the Ahlulbayt, this being the case why did
they hold on to their possessions?

Answer: This is again a complete ignorance and the question is totally illogical. If Fatima allegedly had a share in the land of fadak then wouldn’t the wives have a share in it too//???!! Why do shias forget this thing!!.If Abu Bakr was unjust in not giving the share of fadak to Fatima r.. he also did not give it to his own daughter Ayesha!! He stated that Prophets do not leave any inheritance to be shared by the inheritors.You can read in Osoole Kafi the hadith were it says that prophets do not leave any heritage. Imam Khomeini in one of his books of Fiqh endorses the correctness of this hadith.

As for the wives of the prophet, you need to read the history to see how the prophet made each one of them a house of her own, it wasn’t a heriatge or a gift. Comparing Fadak (a land captured by Muslims) to the houses of the wives of the prophet is very funny. As for giving living money to the wives of the prophet, it is very natural thing. They could not be married again and they had no properties, many of them had no proper relatives to rely on. What do you expect them to do for living at that time if you were the Caliph? Begging?! It is narrated in a hadith (in Bukhari ) to the effect that some of the wives of the prophet went to Ayesha in the time of Omar to encourage her accompany them to Omar’s house to ask for heritage from the prophet, Ayesha rejected and said prophets do not leave any heritage, as the result they also changed their mindThe question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

10. We read in the Qur’an “And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his
recompense shall be hell, he shall abide therein and God’s wrath
(Ghazibullaho) shall be on him and his curse (lanato), and is prepared for
him a great torment” (Surah Nisa, v 93) History testifies that during the
battles of Sifeen and Jamal 70,800 Muslims lost their lives. What is the
position of the killers here? Is this verse not applicable to them? If
these individuals opposed the Khalifa of the time and were responsible for
spreading fitnah and murder, what will be their position on the Day of
Judgement?

Answer: It all depends on their intention. Al’Aamalo Bennyat. If their intention was to bring Fitnah among Muslims or to get their own personal benefit then they have done a sin (no matter if they were in Ali’s army or Muawiyah’s army). As for their position in the hereafter, we are not God to judge about it. Read letter 58 (or one before or after depending on the edition) of Najhul Balagha to see what does Imam Ali think about people of Siffin. Of course I do agree that the right was with Ali (RA) and not Ayesha (RA) or Moawiah. I do agree that Ali (RA) was oppressed in these incidents but I cannot judge about the intentions of every individual who was involved. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that 12ers Shia is the right version of Islam.

11. Allah (swt) tells us in the Qur’an “And of the people of Medina are
those who are bent on hypocrisy. You know them not, but we know them”. (The
Qur’an 9:101). The verse proves the existence of hypocrites during the
lifetime of the Prophet (saaws). After his (saaws)’s death where did they
go? Historians refer to the fact that two groups emerged following the
Prophet (saaws) Banu Hashim and their supporters, the State and their
supporters. Which side did the hypocrites join? The official Sunni version
is that there were no Shia, or if there were there were only 4, all of whom
they respect and undeniably believe will be in Paradise, while they believe
the nascent Sunni party to have formed the bulk of the Ummah.

Answer: This is very deceiving question. To say that the hypocrites were not among those 4 has nothing to prove against the Sahabah. Read Shia Tafasir to see what were the features of these hypocrites. Even the Shia tafasirs do not consider them among the popular sahabeh of the prophet. The Hypocrites mentioned in the Quran were Abdullah ibn Ubayy and his henchmen. Ibn Ubayy died during the lifetime of the Prophet and with that the hypocrites too eroded. Their features certainly are not of the features of great Sahabah like Omar ,Aboobakr , Talha and Zobayr. Read your own sources like Al-mizan and you will see. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shia is the right version of Islam.

12. Ahl’ul Sunnah have four principles of law the Qur’an, Sunnah, Ijtihad
and Qiyas. If one refers to the events of Saqifa, were any of these
principles applied?

Answer: A complete confusion. First what the author is TRYING to refer to are principles of Fiqh and not governing a society. And there are more to it like Ijma and also including Ijtihad in the list shows that the author knows nothing about sources of Fiqh in Shia or Sunni discipline. If you read the history of Islam you will see that the holy prophet established a very democratic society in which many of the decisions ( of course except those revealed by God) were made through consulting with experienced people. What happened in Saqifah was in fact an approach that was established by the holy prophet himself. In this way you might say it was based on Sunnah and ijtehad. On the other hand there are absolutely no clear evidence for the doctrine of having 12 Imams in Quran and Sunnat. So the same question applies to Ithna Ashari themselves. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shia is the right version of Islam.

13. If rejecting a Rightly Guided Khalifa is tantamount to apostasy, what
of those individuals who rebelled and fought the fourth rightly guided
Khalifa?

Answer: I don’t believe that rejecting a Khalifa is tantamount apostasy, however as Ali says in Najhul Balagha, letter 6, the rejecter has gone astray from the way of Muslims. Not all people who fought Ali actually rejected his Caliphate, many started the fight because they wanted to arrest the killers of Uthman (again refer to 58th letter in Nahjul Balagha or one before or after depending on the edition), The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shia is the right version of Islam.

14. It is a basic principle of rationality that if two parties have a
dispute both can be wrong, but both can not be right. Applying this to the
battles of Jamal and Sifeen, will both the murderers and the murdered be in
heaven, because both were right?

Answer: No dear, there is another possibility, both have a portions of right and wrong. As for Jamal and Sifeen, as I said it all goes back to the intentions of individuals. It is possible that some one with divine intention in Muawiyah’s army be considered as martyr and some one with wrong intentions in Ali’s army just wasted his life. By this however I do not mean to justify the Muawiyah’s act of fighting Ali. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shia is the right version of Islam.

15. The Prophet (saaws) had said “I swear by the one who controls my life
that this man (Ali) and his Shia shall secure deliverance on the day of
ressurection” . Do any hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws) had
guaranted paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their
followers?

Answer: No and there are also no ahadith to indicate the followers of Imam Sadiq have guaranteed the paradise. So what?! Zaideis are also the followers of Imam Ali, same for Ismailis but they consider you as misguided same as you consider them as misguided, are they all go to paradise according to Ithna Ashari Shia because they are followers of Ali? Does following Ali only means to be an Ithna Ashari? Are you 100% sure that Malik Ashtar had the same doctrine of Imamat as Ithna Asharis? Can we say that Sunnis are not followers of Ali only because they also respect and follow the other Sahabah? By the way, all the imams you talked about are imams in Fiqh not in Aqeedah. So your comparison is irrelative. Also the hadith (if accepted as authentic) does not imply that these are THE ONLY ones who go to paradise. Do you think there are no other ahadith that indicate the holy prophet promising heaven to any one other than Ali? Have you ever read the verse of Quran that talks in praise of Mohajerin and Ansar and encourages those who follow in their path (Tawbah :100)? Can an Ithna Ashari Shia consider himself as one of the people who this verse is talking about (one who follows the path of Sahabeh)? In another verse (Hashr :10) Allah says that people who are not among Mohajers and Ansar must pray to Him not to put any ill thought about those Sahabah in their hearts, have you ever prayed and requested this from Allah or are you practicing cursing Sahabah and spreading ill thoughts about them? Read the fist verses of the Sura of Momenoon to see in general who are the people who go to paradise, can you see any mentions of the followers of certain Imams there? The question and any replies to it has nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shia is the right version of Islam.

16. During her lifetime Hadhrath Aysha was a severe critic of Hadhrath
Uthman, to the point that she advocated his killing . How is it that
following his slaying she chose to rebel against Imam Ali (as) on the
premise that his killers should be apprehended? Why did she leave Makkah,
portray Hadhrath Uthman as a victim and mobilise oppostion from Basrah. Was
this decision based on her desire to defend Hadhrath Uthman or was it
motivated by her animosity towards Imam Ali (as)?

Answer: The narration that Ayesha was a severe critic of Uthman to such an extent that she stated: “Kill this Nathal because he became a Kaffir” is reported in Sunni works by a person called “Nasr ibn Muhazim”..This person was an extermist Shii and the scholars of rijaal have considered this person to be a liar and a fabricator. So this narration is simply inauthentic. Can you honestly claim that you know the motivation of your best friend that you have known and see all the time in your life when he/she wants to do anything? How can we talk about the motivation of a woman who was living 1400 years ago with all these conflicting pieces of records from history? Instead of casting doubt about her motivations, is it not closer to Taqwa if we respect her as the beloved wife of the prophet and as our mother (if we consider ourselves Momin). Is it not closer to cautious if we observe the verse in Sura of Noor who warns people of thinking ill about Ayesha. Is it not closer to Taqwa to observe the verse that says “avoid uncertain accusations, as most of them are sin”?

17. If failing to believe in Hadhrath Aysha is an act of Kufr what opinion
should we hold with regards to her killer?

Answer: Here the questioner tries to place the impression that Muawiyah killed Ayesha. By refering back to Tarikhul Islam, vol.2 by najeefabadi we found THAT THERE IS NO SUCH NARRATION THAT STATES MUAWIYA KILLED AYESHA. It only says that Ayesha died a natural death and was buried in Janntul Baqiyaah. Now here we can see the dishonesty of the apostate to Shiism as he fabricates lies and uses deception.The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shia is the right version of Islam.

18. It is commonly conveyed that the Sahaba were brave, generous,
knowledgeable and spent their time worshipping Allah (swt). If we want to
determine their bravery, then let us delve in to history, how many kaffir’s
did the prominent Sahaba Hadhrath Umar slay during the battles of Badr,
Uhud, Khunduq, Khayber and Hunain? How many polytheists did he kill during
his own Khilafath? If we wish to determine who is firm against the
unbelievers it cannot be that individual who refused to go the Kaffir’s
prior to the treaty of Hudaiybiya on the grounds that he had no friends and
instead suggested Hadhrath Uthman go on account of he relationship to the
Ummayah clan – against the obligation placed on him by a direct command of
the Holy Prophet.

Answer: How many did Salman or AbuDhar kill? How many did Miqdad or Ibn Abbas kill? Daft question! The designer of the question is very much affected by the dictatorship of his country. The prophet did not encourage people to shot up when he asked for something. He used to listen to the second opinions and many times he would accept it. I haven’t read the story that is referred to in the question but to me it makes a perfect sense. It was the Sunnah of the Arabs to support their relatives. The prophet himself used this Sunnah many times. The question and any replies to it have nothing to do with proving that Ithna Ashari Shiism is the right version of Islam.

19. The Saha Sittah have traditions in which the Prophet (saaws) foretold
the coming of twelve khalifa’s after him . Who are they? We assert that
these are the twelve Imams from the Ahlulbayt. Mulla Ali Qari whilst
setting out Hanafi aqeedah states that the 6th khalifa was Yazid ibn
Mu’awiya? Was the Prophet (saaws) really referring to such a man? When we
also have a hadith that states `He who dies without giving bayah to an Imam
dies the death of one belonging to the days of jahiliyya’ then it is
imperative that we identify and determine who these twelve khalifa’s are.

Answer: The hadith is Hadithe wahid (narrated only by one man), and the narrator was a kid when he was hearing it. No one can base all his religion in a hadithe wahed. Apart from this, the hadith does not put any obligation on Muslims. It is not ordering anything, it is reporting something. Also the hadith refers to these people as Amirs (few versions refer to them as Khalifs), non of the Shia Imams (except Ali and partially Hassan) became an Amir of Khalif. Moreover Imam Zainul Abideen refused to accept the post of Caliphate when the situation was very favourable. Even Bani Ummayah and the Syrians were ready to give him Baiaah but he simply refused. Likewise Imam Jaffar as Sadiq refused Caliphate in a scenario when the Alwis and Banu Abbas had uprooted Banu Ummayah and a large number of people were willing to give him Baiaah. Also it is only the Ithna Ashari who believe in the existence of the 12th Imam. According to other Muslims he never existed. Also there are many other ahadith that give different prophecies about the future of Muslims. One should look at them all and examine the narrators to be able to get a better picture. The hadith does not say that these Amirs themselves are very good Muslims, it says that in their time Islam has power and respect so I can see how Mulla Ali Qari looks at it.
As for the other hadith, you should read the ahadith of the same category to see the whole picture. The hadith as it is written above has not been considered as authentic by Sunnies, However there are ahadith that says who ever get apart from the community of Muslims (to the degree that he even does not know the leader of the society) will be dead like people of ignorant. This is nothing but the indication of importance of being socially & politically aware and active in Islam. This is very much in line with the 6th letter of Ali to Muawiyah in Najhul Balagha. It in no way indicates that there should always be a qualified Imam of time. It is clear that if there are no qualified Imams then the hadith will not be relevant to the situation any more. It says that if Muslims have a leader, you as an individual must recognize him; this is your political and social responsibility as a Muslim. So please see the correct version of hadith in its context to help yourself understanding it.

20. Can anyone change Allah (swt) laws? Then why did Hadhrath Umar
introduce Tarawih prayers in congregation, 4 takbirs for funeral prayers, 3
Talaq’s in one sitting and ban Mutah? What right did he have to substitute
Allah (swt)’s orders in favour of his own?

Answer: Imam Khomeini said in one of his speeches that walye faqih can even order muslims to stop reading prayer if he finds that reading the prayers could harm islam. It is amusing to see his followers are now accusing Omar.
As for Omar, he never initiated Tarawih. It was started at the time of the prophet and the prophet let muslims doing it for 3 nights. The only reason that he put a halt in it was (according to the same ahadith that shia uses) that he worried it might become an obligatory task and become difficult for muslims. At the time of Omar, Islam was well established and the prophet was gone so there was no danger of it becoming obligatory and people liked to read it in Jammaat. The whole reason of forbidding the act had gone and Muslims knew (according to the hadith) that the act by itself had no problem (otherwise the prophet would mention it. He never said why are you doing innovation). You can see the significance of what Omar did these days when all Muslims do tarawih in Macceh, you can even see the effect on Shia people who desperately and interestedly look at it from their TV or live.
The other issues are the issues of Fiqh and ijtehad. Ali for the first time assigned zakat for donkey in his time because he found that at those days people use to have donkeys (refer to Forooe Kafi, the section on zakat), so is this changing the law or what? . To me, Omar’s understanding of Islam was much better than Khomeini’s. Despite clear evidences from Sunnah, Khomeini declared chess to be halal, same for music. In what basis do you give a right of ijtehad to Khomeini who never lived with a prophet and refuse to give the same right to Omar who lived with the best of the prophets? By the way, Shia is the pioneer of changing the laws of God and bringing innovation to religion. Which one is more innovation? What is referred to in the question or the act of Qame Zani (biting your head with sword) in Ashoora, adding another shahadat to Azan, making golden thumbs for your Imams and making pilgrimages to them, etc.

And Allah knows best.


you can add something and give much better answers

Jazakallah Khair

[xs11ax]

afghunz and granturismo92 can also be found on the shia forum.

[Straightpath]

How is this Islam?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WlLLYQY6mY

[xs11ax]

How is this Islam?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WlLLYQY6mY

:salam:

sorry i dont understand......why have you posted a video of feeding time in the monkey enclosure of chester zoo?

[dr.ati]

:salam:

Brother Triploysunni , it would be really beneficial for people like me who don't have much idea of the Shia rijjal that you summarize the arguments which have been presented in the 34 posts of the debate going on between brother Farid and Walid or may be highlight the important points raised there. Which direction is the debate going to proceed now?

:jazak:

[TripolySunni]

:salam:

Brother Triploysunni , it would be really beneficial for people like me who don't have much idea of the Shia rijjal that you summarize the arguments which have been presented in the 34 posts of the debate going on between brother Farid and Walid or may be highlight the important points raised there. Which direction is the debate going to proceed now?

:jazak:

Salam Aleykum,

Brother Farid from Ahlul-Sunnah has already won the debate here:
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=14843

I heard one of the brothers will be writing a summary/review of the whole debate to make easier for everyone to understand.

جزاكم الله خير أخي

[A.Khalil]

Al Salam Aleykum Brother TripolySunni, out of sheer curiousity I wanted to check some Shia beliefs and whether what I had been informed of was actually true. I was aware originally that their beliefs had deviated from the mainstream but after reading this thread, it seems to me that their beliefs are on the same level of stupidity and idiocy as such false religions like Hinduism & Christianity. I've spent parts of the last week or so reading attentively the Shia material which you have kindly translated so that the common layman (like myself) is aware of their unorthodox and heretical beliefs. This has helped me to realise that the Shia cult is completely not partially outside the fold of Islam. I know for certain that the common Shia is unaware of what is written in their books just like the common Christian is ignorant to the text of the Bible. I will Inshallah be making them aware of what utter disbelief their books contain. As I'm sure you are aware, your efforts are not in vain, the fact that at least 5-6 Taqiyyah-lovers have tried to troll your thread proves that. By refuting their madness, you are upholding the dignity of the Prophet (pbuh), his sahabah (like Abu Bakr (RA) Umar (RA) Husayn (RA) & Ali (RA)) and his wives (RA) and May Allah (swt) reward you abundantly for your efforts. Allah Hafiz :)

[Straightpath]

Shia Sheikh and teacher in Qum, Ali Al Koorani, Iran explains the secret behind the Bermuda Triangle, and Al Mahdis knowledge of languages and accents ... (with english subtitles)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTdk4hCk4NE

[sunni-from-iraq]

Al Salam Aleykum Brother TripolySunni, out of sheer curiousity I wanted to check some Shia beliefs and whether what I had been informed of was actually true. I was aware originally that their beliefs had deviated from the mainstream but after reading this thread, it seems to me that their beliefs are on the same level of stupidity and idiocy as such false religions like Hinduism & Christianity. I've spent parts of the last week or so reading attentively the Shia material which you have kindly translated so that the common layman (like myself) is aware of their unorthodox and heretical beliefs. This has helped me to realise that the Shia cult is completely not partially outside the fold of Islam. I know for certain that the common Shia is unaware of what is written in their books just like the common Christian is ignorant to the text of the Bible. I will Inshallah be making them aware of what utter disbelief their books contain. As I'm sure you are aware, your efforts are not in vain, the fact that at least 5-6 Taqiyyah-lovers have tried to troll your thread proves that. By refuting their madness, you are upholding the dignity of the Prophet (pbuh), his sahabah (like Abu Bakr (RA) Umar (RA) Husayn (RA) & Ali (RA)) and his wives (RA) and May Allah (swt) reward you abundantly for your efforts. Allah Hafiz :)

i know every thing the shia sheik at a mosqe would say they would belive like some of them are saying gelitin is halal just because it goes through a proses but if it starts out as parts of a pig it still ends up part of a pig but crushed up ........... their love for the imams is stronger than their ove for Allah (swt)

[Straightpath]

Shia "sheikh" Rafeeq Al Moosawi threatens to turn the Hajj into a bloodbath. Unfortunatly no subtitles on this one, but it tells you a lot. How can a Muslim even think about that? I guess they care more for Hajj to Karbala.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADU83F9XrK0

[TripolySunni]

@A.Khalil

Salam Aleykum,
Don't bother too much with them, they are a stubborn bunch.

I haven't posted here for a while so here are some presents:


The Imams can change the religion

The Shia claim that their Imams are here to explain the religion and preserve the guidance which was revealed on the Prophet SAWS, this is what they tell us but does it stop here or do these Imams go further and act like 12 Prophets?

Quote



كتب الشيخ جعفر السبحاني في كتابه مفاهيم القران ج1 تحت عنوان: الشيعة وفكرة حق التشريع للأئمة


" نشر الكاتب إبراهيم السليمان الجهمان مقالا في مجلة «الدعوة» تحت عنوان «مزاعم طائفة الشيعة» جاء فيه بأكاذيب وافتراءات على هذه الطائفة هم برآء منها، ومما جاء فيه: أن الشيعة تزعم أن للأئمة حق التشريع والنسخ (أي نسخ الأحكام).
إن هذا إلا افتراء وكذب ألصقه بهم هذا الكاتب غير المكترث بما يقول "




Sheikh Ja'afar al-Subhani a famous Shia scholar defends his sect in the book "Mafaheem al-Qur'aan" volume 1 under the chapter "The shia and the idea that the Imams have the right of Tashri'i"

He says: "The writer Ibrahim Suleiman has published an article in a magazine called "al-Da'awah" under the title "Maza'im Taefat al-Shia" in which he collected lies and falsehood from which our sect is innocent, and from what he wrote is: "The Shia claim that their Imams have the right of Tashri'i and Naskh" This is nothing but lies from this irresponsible writer"

Let me try to explain the terms here so that you'd understand what that irresponsible writer was attributing to the Shia sect:

Tashri'i = Announcing new religious laws.
Naskh = Abrogating old religious laws.

The writer claimed that the Imams have the right to announce and establish new religious laws and to abrogate and cancel out old laws which are already established.

Now to see who is the irresponsible liar I will quote both al-Sistani and al-Khoei:

Quote

الرافد في علم الأصول - تقرير بحث السيستاني ، للسيد منير - ص 26

1 - النسخ : وتحدثنا فيه عن امكان صدور النسخ من قبل أهل البيت عليهم السلام للآية القرآنية والحديث النبوي والحديث المعصومي السابق ، وأقسام النسخ من النسخ التبليغي الذي يعني كون الناسخ مودعا عندهم عليهم السلام من قبل الرسول صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم لكنهم يقومون بتبليغه في وقته ، والنسخ التشريعي وهو عبارة عن صدور النسخ منهم ابتداءا وهذا يبتني على ثبوت حق التشريع لهم عليهم السلام كما كان ثابتا للرسول ، صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم وقد طرحنا هذا الموضوع أيضا ضمن بحث النسخ .


First of all Sistani answers in "al-Rafid fi 'Ilm al-Usool - taqrir bahs al-Sistani" by al-Sayyed Muneer page 26:

"Naskh: we talked in it about the possibility that Ahlul-Bayt (as) can abrogate the Qur'anic verse or the Prophetic Hadith or the Hadith of the previous infallible, the types of abrogation are al-Naskh al-Tablighee which means that the information of the abrogation has been given to them (as) by the Prophet SAWS but they announce it in its time, then there is al-Naskh al-Tashri'ee meaning that the abrogation can come from them initially based on the fact that they have the right of Tashri'i just like the Prophet SAWS had it and we discussed the topic also in the research of Naskh."

Now we read what al-Khoei has said about the infallible being able to abrogate/cancel the rulings of the Quran:

Quote

إن الحكم الثابت بالقرآن ينسخ بالسنة المتواترة ، أو بالاجماع القطعي الكاشف عن صدور النسخ عن المعصوم عليه السلام


"A Hukm (ruling) established in the Qur'aan can be abrogated by a successively and uninterruptedly transmitted hadeeth, or by a definition consensus that demonstrated the abrogation was based on the opinion that came from the infallibles."

Source: Al-Khoei, Al-Bayaan fee Tafseer Al-Qur'aan, pg. 192 or 286.

[TripolySunni]

Commentary on the narrations of the broken rib of Fatima (ra):
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=15006

[TripolySunni]

The Shia Imams ordered fasting on the day of 'Ashuraa


السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

May peace and blessings of Allah be upon you all,

Some cute Shi'tes claimed that the Ahadith in which the Prophet SAWS tells us to fast the tenth of Muharram "Ashura" is a fabrication by the Umayyads and they accuse Mu'awiyah (ra) of this (Although it's narrated by many others), what the cute Shi'ites didn't know is that these Ahadith are found in al-Bukhari and Muslim which were written many years after the Umayyad Caliphate fell, so there was no "political pressure" ... but enough about this, let's just quote it from their own books by their own narrators and from their own Imams:


علي بن الحسن بن فضال عن هارون بن مسلم عن مسعدة بن صدقة عن ابي عبد الله عن أبيه عليهما السلام ان عليا عليه السلام قال: صوموا العاشورا التاسع والعاشر فانه يكفر ذنوب سنة. كتاب تهذيب الاحكام ج4ص299


'Ali bin al-Hassan bin Faddal from Haroun bin Muslim from Masa'adah bin Sadaqah from Imam abu 'Abdullah from his Father that 'Ali (as) said: "Fast on 'Ashoora the ninth and tenth for it removes the sins of a whole year."
source: Tahtheeb al-Ahkam 4/299 & Wasael al-Shia 10/457.


وعنه عن يعقوب بن يزيد عن ابي همام عن ابي الحسن عليه السلام قال: صام رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله يوم عاشورا. كتاب تهذيب الاحكام ج4 ص299-300

Also from him, from Ya'aqoub bin Yazid, from abu Hamam, from Imam abu al-Hassan (as): "The messenger peace be upon him and his household fasted the day of 'Ashoora."
source: Tahtheeb al-Ahkam 4/299-300.


سعد بن عبد الله عن ابي جعفر عن جعفر بن محمد بن عبيدالله عن عبد الله بن ميمون القداح عن ابي جعفر عن أبيه عليهما السلام قال: صيام يوم عاشورا كفارة سنة. كتاب تهذيب الاحكام ج4ص300

Sa'ad bin 'Abdullah from abu Ja'afar from Ja'afar bin Muhammad bin 'Ubeidullah from 'Abdullah bin Maymoun al-Qidah from Imam abu Ja'afar from his father (as): "The fasting of 'Ashoora removes the sins of a year."
source: Tahtheeb al-Ahkam 4/300 & Wasael al-Shia 10/457.


وكيفما كان فالروايات الناهية غير نقية السند برمتها، بل هي ضعيفة بأجمعها، فليست لدينا رواية معتبرة يعتمد عليها ليحمل المعارض على التقية كما صنعه صاحب الحدائق. واما الروايات المتضمنة للامر واستحباب الصوم في هذا اليوم فكثيرة، مثل صحيحة القداح: " صيام يوم عاشوراء كفارة سنة " وموثقة مسعدة بن صدقة: " صوموا للعاشوراء التاسع والعاشر فانه يكفر ذنوب سنة " ، ونحوها غيرها، وهو مساعد للاعتبار نظرا إلى المواساة مع أهل بيت الوحي وما لا قوه في هذا اليوم العصيب من جوع وعطش وساير الآلام والمصائب العظام التي هي أعظم مما تدركه الافهام والاوهام. فالاقوى استحباب الصوم في هذا اليوم من حيث هو كما ذكره في الجواهر أخذا بهذه النصوص السليمة عن المعارض كما عرفت . كتاب الصوم للخوئي ج2 ص305

"The narrations that forbid this(Fasting) do not have proper Sanad, they are all weak, in fact we don't have any respectable narrations that we can rely on to prove that those that differ with them are Taqqiyah. As for the narrations that speak about fasting this day and that it is favourable to fast there are plenty of them, such as the SAHIH of al-Qidah: "Fasting the day of 'Ashoora removes the sins of a year." and the Muwaththaq of Masa'adah bin Sadaqah: "Fast 'Ashoora the ninth and the tenth for it removes the sins of an entire year." and others like them. This is acceptable taking into consideration the unimaginably great hunger and thirst and pain that Ahlul-Bayt had to go through on that hard day. So the strongest opinion would be that it is favoured to fast this day"
source: Kitab al-Sawm by al-Khoei 2/305.


محمد بن الحسن باسناده عن علي بن الحسن بن فضال، عن يعقوب بن يزيد، عن أبي همام، عن أبي الحسن عليه السلام قال: صام رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يوم عاشوراء. كتاب وسائل الشيعة ج10ص457

Muhammad bin al-Hassan with its Isnad from 'Ali bin al-Hassan bin Faddal from Ya'aqoub bin Yazid from abu Hamad from abu al-Hassan (as): "The Prophet SAWS fasted the day of 'Ashoora."
source: Wasael al-Shia 10/457.


علي بن الحسن عن محمد بن عبد الله بن زرارة عن احمد بن محمد بن ابي نصر عن ابان بن عثمان الاحمر عن كثير النوا عن ابي جعفر عليه السلام: قال لزقت السفينة يوم عاشورا على الجودي فامر نوح عليه السلام من معه من الجن والانس ان يصوموا ذلك اليوم وقال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: اتدرون ما هذا اليوم، هذا اليوم الذي تاب الله عزوجل فيه على آدم وحوا عليهما السلام، وهذا اليوم الذى فلق الله فيه البحر لبني اسرائيل فاغرق فرعون ومن معه، وهذا اليوم الذى غلب فيه موسى عليه السلام فرعون، وهذا اليوم الذى ولد فيه إبراهيم عليه السلام، وهذا اليوم الذى تاب الله فيه على قوم يونس عليه السلام، وهذا اليوم الذى ولد فيه عيسى ابن مريم عليه السلام، وهذا اليوم الذى يقوم فيه القائم عليه السلام. كتاب تهذيب الاحكام للطوسي ج4ص300

'Ali bin al-Hassan from Muhammad bin 'Abdullah bin Zurarah from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin abi Nasr from Abban bin 'Uthman al-Ahmar from Kathir al-Niwa from abu Ja'afar (as): "On the day of 'Ashura, Nuh (as) ordered all those with him on the ship, whether Jinn or Humans to Fast on this day, and abu Ja'afar (as) said: Do you know which day this is? this is the day which Allah forgave Adam and Eve (as), this is the day which Allah split the ocean for bani Israel and he drowned Pharaoh and his followers, this is the day when Musa (as) defeated Pharaoh, this is the day in which Ibrahim (as) was born, this is the day when Allah forgave Yunus (as), this is the day in which 'Isa ibn Mariam (as) was born, this is the day when al-Qaem(Mahdi) shall rise.
source: Tahtheeb al-Ahkam by al-Tusi 4/300.


وفيه: بإسناده إلى علي بن فضال، بإسناده عن أبي جعفر (عليه السلام)، قال: " استوت السفينة يوم عاشوراء على الجودي، فأمر نوح (عليه السلام) من معه من الجن والانس، أن يصوموا ذلك اليوم، وقال أبو جعفر (عليه السلام): أتدرون ماهذا اليوم ؟ هذا اليوم الذي تاب الله عز وجل فيه على آدم (عليه السلام) وحواء، وهذا اليوم الذي فلق الله فيه البحر لبني اسرائيل، فاغرق فرعون ومن معه، وهذا اليوم الذي غلب فيه موسى (عليه السلام) فرعون، وهذا اليوم الذي ولد فيه ابراهيم (عليه السلام)، وهذا اليوم الذي تاب الله فيه على قوم يونس (عليه السلام)، وهذا اليوم الذي ولد فيه عيسى بن مريم (عليه السلام)، وهذا اليوم [ الذي ] (1) يقوم فيه القائم (عليه السلام . كتاب مستدرك الوسائل للطبرسي ج7 ص524

And with its Isnad to 'Ali bin Faddal with his Isnad to abu Ja'afar (as): "On the day of 'Ashura, Nuh (as) ordered all those with him on the ship, whether Jinn or Humans to Fast on this day, and abu Ja'afar (as) said: Do you know which day this is? this is the day which Allah forgave Adam and Eve (as), this is the day which Allah split the ocean for bani Israel and he drowned Pharaoh and his followers, this is the day when Musa (as) defeated Pharaoh, this is the day in which Ibrahim (as) was born, this is the day when Allah forgave Yunus (as), this is the day in which 'Isa ibn Mariam (as) was born, this is the day when al-Qaem(Mahdi) shall rise.
source: Mustadrak al-Wasael by al-Tabrasi 7/524.


روى الصدوق : وفي عشر من المحرم وهو يوم عاشوراء أنزل الله توبة آدم - عليه السلام -، وفيه استوت (7) سفينة نوح - عليه السلام - على الجود ي (8)، وفيه عبر موسى - عليه السلام - البحر (9) وفيه ولد عيسى بن مريم - عليه السلام -، وفيه أخرج الله يونس - عليه السلام - من بطن الحوت، وفيه أخرج الله يوسف من بطن الجب (10)، وفيه تاب الله، على قوم يونس - عليه السلام -، وفيه قتل داود جالوت (11)، فمن صام ذلك اليوم غفر له ذنوب سبعين سنة وغفر له مكاتم (12) عمله (13). كتاب المقنع ص208

al-Saduq narrated: "On the tenth of Muharram and it is the day of 'Ashoora, Allah forgave Adam (as), and in it the arc of Nuh (as) floated, and in it Musa (as) crossed the sea, and in it 'Isa bin Mariam (as) was born, and in it Allah let Yunus (as) out from the belly of the whale, and in it Allah forgave the people of Yunus (as), and in it Dawood killed Jaloot, so he who fasts on this day Allah shall remove his sins from seventy years and will forgive him for all sins done in secret.
source: al-Muqni'i by al-Saduq page 208.


So now I ask the Shi'ites to apologise to Mu'awiyah (ra) since he was right and you were wrong and since he followed the Sunnah of the Prophet SAWS and you did not.




=========================================

:cheesygri

Link: Official Sistani Site (http://www.sistani.org/index.php?p=251364&id=48&pid=2282)

Fatwa Sistani:
1756. It is Makrooh to fast on 'Ashura (10th of Muharram). It is also Makrooh to fast on the day about which one is not sure whether it is the day of 'Arafa or Eid-ul-Azha.

[TripolySunni]

Location of Fatima's (ra) grave.

The Shia scholars like to lie and play with people's emotions by telling them that Ahlul-Bayt kept the location of Fatima's grave a secret, they don't seem to notice that in the Sahih Hadith in their own books their Imam casually exposes the location of her grave when he is asked:


ما رواه الشيخ الطوسي في التهذيب بِإِسْنَادِهِ الصحيح عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا الْحَسَنِ عليه السلام عَنْ قَبْرِ فَاطِمَةَ عليها السلام فَقَالَ دُفِنَتْ فِي بَيْتِهَا فَلَمَّا زَادَتْ بَنُو أُمَيَّةَ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ صَارَتْ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ

وسائل‏الشيعة ج : 14 ص : 368 ح 19406



al-Tusi narrated in al-Tahtheeb with its Sahih Isnad from Muhammad bin Ahmad bin Yahya from Ahmad bin Muhammad from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin abi Nasr: I asked Imam abu al-Hassan about the grave of Fatima so he said: "She was buried in her house and when Banu Ummayya exceeded the area of the mosque her grave became a part of the mosque i.e. Masjid al-Nabawi."

source: Wasael al-Shia 14/368 #19406

[A.Khalil]

Salam Aleykum Brother TripolySunni,

Thanks for your reply and additional information regarding these deviants. Indeed they seem to give their Imam Prophet-like duties and commands which only a Prophet would be allowed to do.

I have one question which concerns Naskh, as far as I'm aware our Sunni concept of Hazrat Isa (AS) is that he will abrogate the Quranic injuction of paying the Jizyah tax according to certain Hadiths in Sahih Muslim or Bukhari , which in Surah Al-Taubah is imposed on the People of the Book.

So my question is how can it be reconciled that the deen has been prefected yet the command of Jizyah will be abolished on the return of Hazrat Isa (AS)?

This has always been something that has puzzled me.

[TripolySunni]

Salam Aleykum Brother TripolySunni,

Thanks for your reply and additional information regarding these deviants. Indeed they seem to give their Imam Prophet-like duties and commands which only a Prophet would be allowed to do.

I have one question which concerns Naskh, as far as I'm aware our Sunni concept of Hazrat Isa (AS) is that he will abrogate the Quranic injuction of paying the Jizyah tax according to certain Hadiths in Sahih Muslim or Bukhari , which in Surah Al-Taubah is imposed on the People of the Book.

So my question is how can it be reconciled that the deen has been prefected yet the command of Jizyah will be abolished on the return of Hazrat Isa (AS)?

This has always been something that has puzzled me.

It is perfected for us in our time until the day of judgement, when 'Isa (ra) comes that is already one of the major signs of Kiyamah, so the world will end and whatever you do won't benefit you any more, also 'Isa (ra) is a Prophet and he can abrogate by the will of Allah.

[A.Khalil]

Okay, so just so I'm completely sure, Isa (AS) will return as a Prophet as well as a leader for the Ummah?

I've favourited your article of Fatima (RA)'s alleged broken rib incident and will read it all in good time. Subhanuallah, whenever I see a Sunni arguing it is backed up with early authentic referenced, whereas Shia have tendency to either use no references or very weak fabricated ones.

[TripolySunni]

Okay, so just so I'm completely sure, Isa (AS) will return as a Prophet as well as a leader for the Ummah?

I've favourited your article of Fatima (RA)'s alleged broken rib incident and will read it all in good time. Subhanuallah, whenever I see a Sunni arguing it is backed up with early authentic referenced, whereas Shia have tendency to either use no references or very weak fabricated ones.

Yep, the Mahdi and 'Isa PBUT will be sent to lead us and it's not strange if they order us to do something new.

[A.Khalil]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. One additional question.

A'isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Holy Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims). (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 2634) .

Is this Hadith Sahih? Or has has it been abrogated by which it's hukm (ruling) is still used but it's matn (text) is not included into the Quran. Also I'm more than sure there's a similar situation with a verse that was revealed concerning stoning (rajm) which's hukm is carried out but the actual text itself is not included into the Quran.

Any clarification would be helpful :)

[Straightpath]

Commentary on the narrations of the broken rib of Fatima (ra):
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=15006

They themselves explain it. Heres a Shia explanation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mJsyjZjcng

[Maddy1]

Ya ALLAH !! Guide us all !! Ameen !!

[sunni-from-iraq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZ7faPI6Hc


this is what they do in their mosqe ....... a mosqe is a place to worship alllah not to beat yourselfs and sing

[TripolySunni]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. One additional question.

A'isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Holy Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims). (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 2634) .

Is this Hadith Sahih? Or has has it been abrogated by which it's hukm (ruling) is still used but it's matn (text) is not included into the Quran. Also I'm more than sure there's a similar situation with a verse that was revealed concerning stoning (rajm) which's hukm is carried out but the actual text itself is not included into the Quran.

Any clarification would be helpful :)

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

As you stated there are various forms of Naskh(abrogation), in all it is three different types, abrogating Tilawah, abrogating Hukm and abrogating both as mentioned by Allah:

We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it [2:106]

And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse [16:101]

Allah eliminates what He wills or confirms, and with Him is the Mother of the Book [13:39]

And if We willed, We could surely do away with that which We revealed to you [17:86]

The Hadith you quoted is from the kind that the ruling and the recitation have been abrogated.

The Shia scholar al-Tusi confirms this:

قد نسخ التلاوة والحكم معاً مثل ماروى عن عائشة أنها قالت كان فيما أنزله الله عشر رضعات يحرمن ثم نسخن
التبيان جـ 1 ص 13 مقدمة المؤلف

"The recitation and the ruling have both been abrogated such as what is narrated from 'Aisha that Allah revealed ten clear sucklings make it unlawful then they were abrogated."

source: al-Tibyan 1/13 intro.

Salam Aleykum,

[islamicstudiescentre]

Please bro! We shia Muslims are not deviants.I can only ask God to make you respect and have compassion for people who do not see things your way.

[islamicstudiescentre]

Please bro! We shia Muslims are not deviants.I can only ask God to make you respect and have tolerance for people who do not see things your way.

[islamicstudiescentre]

Bro just because somebody does something that you do not like is not reason to disrespect them. Shias just understand islam differently. Whether you like it or not there will always be shias. Do you know that the enemies of islam want shias and sunnis to fight each other instead of preaching islam to the lost.please bro be tolerant,be respectful.

[amr123]

How did Ali (ra) Treat those who Curse Aisha(ra) - Kamal El-Mekki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aMDBdlu4c

[TripolySunni]

Bro just because somebody does something that you do not like is not reason to disrespect them. Shias just understand islam differently. Whether you like it or not there will always be shias. Do you know that the enemies of islam want shias and sunnis to fight each other instead of preaching islam to the lost.please bro be tolerant,be respectful.

Salam Aleykum,

Yes you're right, some of your scholars understand Islam differently, in fact let me show you how differently they understood it:

Allahumma Salli 'ala Sayyidina wa Habibina wa Qudwatina Muhammadin wa 'ala Alihi wa Sahbihi wa Sallim.

The subject is Tahreef al-Quran and we'll be quoting the book "Miraat al-Anwar wa Mishkat al-Asrar" by grand Ayatullah abu al-Hassan al-'Amili.

First of all let me explain two terms which will be mentioned:

Muhadditheen: Scholars of Hadith who research and compare the chains of transmission of various narrations, they know the condition of the narrators and can differentiate between what is authentic and what isn't.

Muhaqqiqeen: Are Mujtahid scholars who look at the texts and draw rulings and religious verdicts.

first let us introduce this scholar:




تلامذة المجلسي - السيد أحمد الحسينى - ص 12 - 13
المولى أبو الحسن الفتوني أبو الحسن بن محمد طاهر بن عبد الحميد بن موسى بن علي بن محمد بن معتوق ابن عبد الحميد النباطي العاملي ، الشريف الفتوني الغروي من أجلاء العلماء الأعاظم ، كما أن آباءه كانوا ذوي علم وفضل ، وقد وصف بالعالم العامل الفاضل الكامل المدقق العلامة أفقه المحدثين وأكمل الربانيين الشريف العدل ، رئيس المحدثين في زمانه وقدوة الفقهاء في أوانه . ولد بأصبهان نحو سنة 1070 ، وأكثر توطنه كان بالنجف الأشرف ، وفى اصبهان كان يسكن في محلة ( درب امام ) ولذا عرف ب* ( الامامي ) . له إجازة الحديث من العلامة المجلسي بتاريخ شعبان سنة 1096 وربيع الأول 1107 ، كما أنه قد أجيز أيضا من جماعة من العلماء الاعلام ، ومنهم الشيخ محمد ابن الحسن الحر العاملي والسيد نعمة الله الجزائري وخاله المير محمد صالح الخاتون آبادي . وقد أجاز كثيرا من العلماء ، منهم ابنه المولى أبو طالب الفتوني والشيخ أحمد ابن إسماعيل الجزائري والسيد نصر الله المدرس الحائري والشيخ عبد الله بن كرم الله الحويزي . قال العلامة النوري : وهذا الشيخ جليل القدر عظيم الشأن أفضل أهل عصره فيما أعلم . من تآليفه ( ضياء العالمين في بيان امامة المصطفين ) و ( الفوائد الغروية ) و ( مرآة الأنوار ومشكاة الاسرار ) و ( شريعة الشيعة ودلائل الشريعة ) و ( حقيقة مذهب الإمامية ) و ( تنزيه القميين ) و ( شرح الصحيفة السجادية ) و ( الفوائد المكية ) و ( نصائح الملوك ) . توفى بالنجف الأشرف سنة 1138 ( أو 1139 ) . ( الفيض القدسي ص 86 ، أعيان الشيعة 7 / 342 ، لؤلؤة البحرين ص 107 ، مستدرك الوسائل 3 / 385 ، الكواكب المنتثرة - مخطوط ) . أنتهى




In "Talamithat al-Majlisi" by Sayyed Ahmad al-Husseini pages 12 and 13 we read:

Al-Mawla abu al-Hassan al-Fatouni abu al-Hassan bin Muhammad Tahir bin 'Abdul-Hamid bin Musa bin 'Ali bin Muhammad bin Ma'atouq ibn 'Abdul-Hamid al-Nabaty al-'Amili, al-Shareef al-fatouni al-Gharawi from the virtuous great scholars, his fathers were men of knowledge and merit, he is described as the hard working scholar, the complete, the sharp observer, al-'Allamah the most knowledgeable in fiqh amongst the Muhadditheen and people of Hadith, the honourable and just, head of the Muhadditheen in his era and an example to the Fuqahaa of his time. born in Isbahan around 1070 A.H, spent most his time in Najaf al-Ashraf, received Ijazah in Hadith from al-'Allamah al-Majlisi in the month of Sha'aban 1096 A.H and Rabi'i al-Awwal 1107 A.H, he also received Ijazah from a group of the renowned scholars from them is Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Hassan al-Hurr al-'Amili and al-Sayyed Ni'imatullah al-Jazaeri and his uncle al-Mir Muhammad Saleh al-Khatoun Abadi. He in turn gave Ijazah to many scholars such as his son al-Mawla Abu Talib al-Fatouni, Sheikh Ahmad ibn Ismael al-Jazaeri, Sayyed Nasrallah al-Mudarris al-Haeree and Sheikh 'Abdullah bin Karamullah al-Huwayzi. al-'Allamah al-Noori said about him: This Sheikh is of great value and rank, the best of his era as far as I know. From his works "Bayan Imamat al-Mustafeen" "Fawaed al-Ghurawiyah" "Miraat al-Anwar wa Mishkaat al-Asrar" "Shariat al-Shia" "Haqiqat Madhab al-Imamiyah" "Tanzeeh al-Qummiyeen" "Sharh al-Saheefa al-Sajjadiyah" "Fawaed Makkiyah" "Nasaeh al-Mulouk". died in Najaf in 1138. ( al-Faydh al-Qudsi p86, A'ayan al-Shia 7/342, Lulu al-Bahrain p107, Mustadrak al-Wasael 3/385, al-Kawakib al-Muntathirah - manuscript).

- end -

And here are the scans from his book "Miraat al-Anwar":

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3999/85692845.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9004/87701486.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4969/37905272.jpg

Arabic text:



اعلم أن الذي يظهر من ثقة الإسلام محمد بن يعقوب الكليني طاب ثراه أنه كان يعتقد التحريف والنقصان في القرآن لأنه روى روايات كثيرة في هذا المعنى في كتاب الكافي الذي صرح في أوله بأنه كان يثق فيما رواه فيه ولم يتعرض لقدح فيها ولا ذكر معارض لها، وكذلك شيخه علي بن إبراهيم القمي ره فإن تفسيره مملوء منه وله غلو فيه . . . ولقد قال بهذا القول أيضاً ووافق القمي والكليني ره جماعة من أصحابنا المفسرين كالعياشي والنعماني وفرات بن إبراهيم وغيرهم، وهو مذهب أكثر محققي محدثي المتأخرين، وقول الشيخ الأجل أحمد بن أبي طالب الطبرسي كما ينادي به كتابه الاحتجاج وقد نصره شيخنا العلامة باقر علوم أهل البيت عليه السلام وخادم أخبارهم عليه السلام في كتابه بحار الأنوار، وبسط الكلام فيه ما لا مزيد عليه.وعندي في وضوح صحة ذا القول بعد تتبع الأخبار وتفحص الآثار بحيث يمكن الحكم بكونه من ضروريات مذهب التشيع وإنه من أكبر مفاسد غصب الخلافة فتدبر حتى تعلم توهم الصدوق ره في هذا المقام . أنتهى




Translation:

"You must know that what is apparent from Thiqat al-Islam Muhammad ibn Ya'aqoub al-Kulayni may Allah increase his richness is that he used to believe in the corruption of the Quran and the deletion from it because he narrated many narrations that show this in his book al-Kafi which he openly said at its beginning that he believes in everything he narrated in his book, he did not comment on or criticize any of the narrations nor did he mention anything which contradicts this matter, this is also done by his sheikh and teacher 'Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi may Allah have mercy on his soul who filled his book of Tafseer with these narrations and he practised Ghulu in this matter ... Also from those who used to say this and agree with al-Kulayni and al-Qummi may Allah have mercy on them are a group from our companions in the field of Tafseer such as al-'Ayyashi and al-Nu'umani and Furat bin Ibrahim and others, and this is known as the Madhab of the Majority of the late Muhaqiqee al-Muhadditheen, also the saying of the greatest of scholars Ahmad bin abi Talib al-Tabrasi as he continuously stated in his book al-Ihtijaj and from those who supported this saying was our sheikh al-'Allamah Baqir 'Uloum Ahlul-Bayt peace be upon him and their servant may peace be upon them in his book Bihar al-Anwar, He talked about the matter extensively and we could not add anything more to what he said. I have many proofs for the authenticity of this truthful saying after tracing and researching the narrations that enable us to rule that this matter is from the necessities of our Shia Madhab and it is the result of the big corruption which occurred as a result of usurping the caliphate, so observe with wisdom and you will know that al-Saduq only had illusions in this matter."

Source: Muqaddimat Tafseer al-Burhan, Miraat al-Anwar wa Mishkaat al-Asrar by Grand Ayatullah abu al-Hassan al-'Amili, printed in al-A'alami Beirut Lebanon, second introduction pages 83 and 84.

- end -

Comment:

Most of what Abu al-Hassan said is already known, he just repeated it so that those who deny can think twice before denying, from the benefits is that he clearly stated that the majority of the late Muhaqiqee al-Muhadditheen believed this matter and he was stating them by name until he got tired and just decided to say "The Majority believe this" but he did give a few examples such as:

1- al-Qummi
2- al-Kulayni.
3- al-'Ayyashi.
4- al-Nu'umani.
5- Furat bin Ibrahim.
6- al-Tabrasi.
7- al-Majlisi.

May Allah save us from the true face of this sect and save those who have been fooled by the slogans of the sect.

[DefendingIslam]

Salam Alaykum,

Concerning this last quote, I wonder how many Twelver Shias will accept this evidence, since it seems that al-Amili was an Akhbari, and modern-day Twelver Shias reject the conclusions of the Akhbaris out of hand and without even getting into a discussion about it. Perhaps a discussion on how the Akhbaris are still part of the Twelver Shia faith as far as the Usoolis are concerned is needed in conjunction with showing such quotes.

[TripolySunni]

Salam Alaykum,

Concerning this last quote, I wonder how many Twelver Shias will accept this evidence, since it seems that al-Amili was an Akhbari, and modern-day Twelver Shias reject the conclusions of the Akhbaris out of hand and without even getting into a discussion about it. Perhaps a discussion on how the Akhbaris are still part of the Twelver Shia faith as far as the Usoolis are concerned is needed in conjunction with showing such quotes.

Wa Aleykum el Salam,

And do you think Kulayni and Qummi and Majlisi are Usoolis or Akhbaris? :)

[DefendingIslam]

Wa Aleykum el Salam,

And do you think Kulayni and Qummi and Majlisi are Usoolis or Akhbari

I have seen modern-day Shias accusing Majlisi of being Akhbari-minded, though I did not get deep into the reason for this.

With respect to the others, the issue is that the modern-day Shias will reject the conclusions drawn by the Akhbari 'Aalims regarding the early scholars such as Kulayni or Qummi, so it is best that we get into the matter of how the saying of the Akhbaris regarding the corruption of the Qur'an was treated by the Usoolis as far as their being 'Twelver Shias' is concerned.

[islamicstudiescentre]

Assalamu alaikum bro,
Thank you for your reply.Any Muslim who believes that the Qur'an has been corrupted in any way has gone astray!All the ahadith supporting tahreef are false. My Mujtahid or Marja Ayatullah Khamenei and many other present day shia Ulama do not believe in tahreef. I can only ask God to show mercy on Ayatullah al-Amili.

[islamicstudiescentre]

I personally was not fooled by any slogans.After A CAREFUL,UNBIASED AND OPEN-MINDED study of hitorical events that took place immediately after the death of the Prophet i was convinced that Ali(as)should have been the leader of Muslims after him.A fool is person who denies the existence of God or thinks there are many Gods.

[TripolySunni]

I personally was not fooled by any slogans.After A CAREFUL,UNBIASED AND OPEN-MINDED study of hitorical events that took place immediately after the death of the Prophet i was convinced that Ali(as)should have been the leader of Muslims after him.A fool is person who denies the existence of God or thinks there are many Gods.

A couple of questions,

So after a careful, unbiased, open-minded study of the events AFTER the death of the Prophet SAWS you concluded that 'Ali (ra) should have been the Caliph? hmmm... In this case do you deny the "divine texts" which you Shia keep quoting? If there was a clear divine text as you Shia claim then why did you have to bother yourself with that long and careful and unbiased study of events AFTER the death of the Prophet SAWS to conclude this matter?

I'll tell you what I did, I did a careful, unbiased, open minded study of the events DURING the life of the Prophet SAWS and came to the conclusion that Abu Bakr (ra) should have been the Caliph but let's not talk about me, I am more interested in the careful, open-minded and unbiased study you did, so what books have you read and did you read them in Arabic or English?

[afgnmuslim]

Assalamu alaikum bro,
Thank you for your reply.Any Muslim who believes that the Qur'an has been corrupted in any way has gone astray!

Walaikum as-salaam,
Gone astray or has became kaffir? I remember watching a debate, more like a conversation, between Sheikh Dimashqiah and some Shia students (perhaps in some university in UK) and the Sheikh mentioned something interesting. He said that during his debates with Tijani and company on TV on Al-Mustakillah, he (Dimashqiah) and the other Sunni scholar brought these narrations from Shia sources. The two Shia scholars present at the debate on Al-Mustakillah denied these narrations and said that they were weak narrations, etc etc. So Sh. Dimashqiah and the other Sunni scholar begged (Sh. Dimashqiah said that he literally begged the two Shia scholars present) to pen a fatwa saying that anyone who believes in such things are kaffir but the Shias did not. They kept insisting that such people have deviated from the true path but are not kaffir.

And in this very thread, you will find fatwas by Sistani (if I am not mistaken) saying that anyone who believes in tahreef is misguided but not kaffir........makes you wonder why?!

If I doubt wilayah, I am a kaffir, according to Shias........if I deny the right of Hadhrat Ali (ra) as successor of Rasulullah (saw) and the other 11 imams, I am a kaffir........but if I believe in tahreef, I am misguided? REALLY?

[faizol]

I personally was not fooled by any slogans.After A CAREFUL,UNBIASED AND OPEN-MINDED study of hitorical events that took place immediately after the death of the Prophet i was convinced that Ali(as)should have been the leader of Muslims after him.A fool is person who denies the existence of God or thinks there are many Gods.

probably you should also list which historical events that you've CAREFULLY studied (would be better if it comes complete with references -books, lecture. etc).

Just a clarification, you say those who believe that the Quran is corrupted is misguided, right? Specifically, are those who believe so kuffr or not? It would be helpful if you can be precise and concise in your reply to alleviate any misunderstanding and to have a proper discussion.

[afgnmuslim]

A couple of questions,


Salaam akhi,
I have a question. A while ago, I was listening to a lecture and the presenter said, without any references, that when man is created - we all know man is created from dust - Allah (swt) makes man from the dust of the region where he is from. For example, I am Afghan so by his theory, I have some dust from Afghanistan in me. He also said that the same person's body is also made of dust of the place where he or she will be buried. In other words, every human contains dust from his or her birth and death place.

I am not sure if that is an authentic or valid belief, but if it is, then it almost hints that a person's birth and death place are pre-determined. Therefore, Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Omar (ra) were buried next to Prophet (saw) as per Allah's (swt) will and there were no "evil plots" to keep the Ahlul-Bait (ra) and Bibi Fatima (ra) away from the grave-side of Rasulullah (saw).

[TripolySunni]

Salaam akhi,
I have a question. A while ago, I was listening to a lecture and the presenter said, without any references, that when man is created - we all know man is created from dust - Allah (swt) makes man from the dust of the region where he is from. For example, I am Afghan so by his theory, I have some dust from Afghanistan in me. He also said that the same person's body is also made of dust of the place where he or she will be buried. In other words, every human contains dust from his or her birth and death place.

I am not sure if that is an authentic or valid belief, but if it is, then it almost hints that a person's birth and death place are pre-determined. Therefore, Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Omar (ra) were buried next to Prophet (saw) as per Allah's (swt) will and there were no "evil plots" to keep the Ahlul-Bait (ra) and Bibi Fatima (ra) away from the grave-side of Rasulullah (saw).

Salam Aleykum,

That is really interesting, I don't know what the source for this is, maybe it could be proven scientifically, for example your mother when she is pregnant with you, she breathes the air of Afghanistan and the dust of Afghanistan and she eats the fruits and vegetables from the soil of Afghanistan if you know what I mean, so yes it could be true.

[afgnmuslim]

Salam Aleykum,

That is really interesting, I don't know what the source for this is, maybe it could be proven scientifically, for example your mother when she is pregnant with you, she breathes the air of Afghanistan

I think I did not say it properly. I am not concerned about the birth part. From what I remember, and may Allah (swt) forgive me if I err, but it is the death AND burial place that I am hinting at. In other words, the brother said that you contain a little bit of the dust of the exact place of your burial. Your burial spot is pre-determined since you are partially made from the dust of that place.

Keeping that in mind, if Rasulullah (saw) had a little bit of the dust of his burial place in him, then Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) and Hadhrat Omar (ra) had the same dust in them since they are buried right next to the beloved of Allah. And if that theory is correct, then it gives us no reason to argue with Shias regarding who should have, and who should not have, been buried next to Rasulullah (saw).

[AlGhuraba]

are zaidis kafir too?

[TripolySunni]

are zaidis kafir too?

no they just have a couple of innovations.

[TripolySunni]

Bismillah,



CLEAR Fatwa by Grand Ayatullah Mirza Jawad al-Tabrizi about the corruption of the Quran

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/hanysal/Tabrizi1.jpg


Arabic Text:

1) هل خطبة البيان والخطبة التطنجية صحيحتان؟ وهل حديث الخيط الأصفر وحديث النورانية المرويان في «البحار» صحيحان؟ وقال رسول اللّه (صلى الله عليه وآله): «إني خلفت فيكم الثقلين؛ كتاب اللّه
وعترتي أهل بيتي، ما إن تمسكتم بهما لن تضلوا بعدي أبداً». ما هو الثقل الأكبر، كتاب اللّه أم العترة؟

بسمه تعالى؛ لم يثبت عندنا صحة نسبة الخطب المذكورة للإمام أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام)، والمراد من الثقل الأكبر هو واقع القرآن الكريم المحفوظ عند أهل البيت (عليهم السلام) وصدور بعض المؤمنين، فإن الأئمة (عليهم السلام) ضحوا بأنفسهم في سبيل حفظ الثقل الأكبر، وليس المراد من القرآن النسخ التي بأيدي الناس فهذه النسخ حاكيات عن القرآن المحفوظ عند أهله، واللّه العالم.



Question (1): Are the two Khutbas of al-Bayan and al-Tatanjiyah Sahih? Are the Hadiths of al-Khayt al-Asfar and al-Nooraniyah in Bihar al-Anwar Sahih? About the saying of Rassul Allah PBUH&HF: "I have left with you the two weighty things; the book of Allah and my Ahlul-Bayt, hold on to them and you will never be misguided." I ask what is the biggest of the two weighty things? the Quran or Ahlul-Bayt?


Answer by Grand Ayatullah Tabrizi: Bismillah, the sermons you mentioned are not authentic to Ameer al-Mumineen (as), what is meant by the biggest of the two weighty things is the truth of the Quran that is preserved with Ahlul-Bayt (as) and in the chests of some of the believers, the Imams (as) have sacrificed themselves in order to preserve the biggest of the two weighty things, when we say the Quran we do not mean the prints in the people's hands because these prints are no more than stories about the Quran which is preserved with its people, Allah knows best.

- end -

Link: Tabrizi's Official Site (http://tabrizi.org/ar/2009/08/aghaed-1-3/)

[ahmad12]

:salam:

Tripoly Sunni bro, could I please have your email? A friend of mine has been influenced by some random called Hassan Al Yamani and I need some help refuting this guy. If possible, would you allow me to pass your email onto him?

:jazak:

[TripolySunni]

:salam:

Tripoly Sunni bro, could I please have your email? A friend of mine has been influenced by some random called Hassan Al Yamani and I need some help refuting this guy. If possible, would you allow me to pass your email onto him?

:jazak:

This website is for refuting Shias:
http://islamic-forum.net/

Everything your friend needs can be found here, just register and ask and they will answer incha-Allah.

[ahmad12]

This website is for refuting Shias:
http://islamic-forum.net/

Everything your friend needs can be found here, just register and ask and they will answer incha-Allah.

:salam:

:jazak: bro, I'll get him to register

:jazak:

[suleimanibnsalim]

Brother Tripoly, you must have seen the debates between the jahil shi'i, 'Abd al-'Aal and Sh. 'Adnan. . . That 'Abd al-'Aal believed in Hasan al-Yamani who claims he is the representetive of the Mahdi, and can't recite the Qur'an propperly. 'Abd al-'Aal defended him, saying that it was a qira'ah of Ahl al-Bayt. Sh. 'Adnan asked for a single book detailing the rules of the qira'aat Ahl al-Bayt, and 'Abd al-'Aal was dumfounded!

was-salam

[TripolySunni]

Brother Tripoly, you must have seen the debates between the jahil shi'i, 'Abd al-'Aal and Sh. 'Adnan. . . That 'Abd al-'Aal believed in Hasan al-Yamani who claims he is the representetive of the Mahdi, and can't recite the Qur'an propperly. 'Abd al-'Aal defended him, saying that it was a qira'ah of Ahl al-Bayt. Sh. 'Adnan asked for a single book detailing the rules of the qira'aat Ahl al-Bayt, and 'Abd al-'Aal was dumfounded!

was-salam

Ah Yes ! Now I remember where I heard this Name, Ahmad al-Hasan al-Yamani is the foul beast who claims to be the representative of the Mahdi, If this is the case then let them know that we challenge Ahmad al-Hassan al-Yamani himself to a debate, all he has to do is come into contact with us and we'll arrange everything incha-Allah!

May Allah save us all from this magician.

[TripolySunni]

السلام عليكم

Check out this beautiful Hadith from the Musannaf:



اجتمعت أنا والعباس وفاطمة وزيد بن حارثة عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فسأل العباس رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : يا رسول الله ! كبر سني ، ورق عظمي ، وركبتني مؤنة فإن رأيت أن تأمرني بكذا وكذا وسقا من طعام فافعل ، قال : ففعل ذلك ، ثم قالت فاطمة رضي الله عنها : يا رسول الله ! أنا منك بالمنزل الذي قد علمت ، فإن رأيت أن تأمر لي كما أمرت لعمك فافعل ، قال : ففعل ذلك ، ثم قال زيد بن حارثة : يا رسول الله ! كنت أعطيتني أرضا أعيش فيها ثم قبضتها مني ، فإن رأيت أن تردها علي فافعل ، قال : ففعل ذلك ، قلت : أنا يا رسول الله ! إن رأيت أن توليني حقنا من الخمس في كتاب الله فأقسمه حياتك كي لا ينازعنيه أحد بعدك فافعل ، قال : ففعل ذاك ، ثم إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم التفت إلى العباس فقال : يا أبا الفضل ! ألا تسألني الذي سأله ابن أخيك ، فقال : يا رسول الله ! انتهت مسألتي إلى الذي سألتك ، قال : فولانيه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقسمته حياة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ثم ولانيه أبو بكر رضي الله عنه فقسمته حياة أبي بكر رضي الله عنه ، ثم ولانيه عمر رضي الله عنه فقسمته حياة عمر رضي الله عنه حتى كان آخر سنة من سني عمر رضي الله عنه أتاه مال كثير فعزل حقنا ثم أرسل إلي فقال : هذا مالكم فخذه فاقسمه حيث كنت تقسمه ، فقلت : يا أمير المؤمنين ! بنا عنه العام غنى وبالمسلمين إليه حاجة فرده عليهم تلك السنة


'Ali ibn abi Talib (ra) narrates: al-'Abbas, Fatima, Zaid and myself have all gathered in the prophet's SAWS house, al-'Abbas asked the Prophet SAWS: "O Prophet of Allah, I have become a man of old age and my bones and health have become weak, so if you can provide me with such and such and some food then do so." He SAWS said: "I will." then Fatima may Allah be pleased with her said: "O Prophet of Allah, you know of my relation to you, so if you see that you can provide me with the same things you provided your uncle then do so." and he did what she said, then Zaid ibn Harithah asked: "O Prophet of Allah, in the past you had given me a piece of land where I could live and then you took it away from me, so if you see that you can return it then do so." and he did, I ('Ali) said: "Me O prophet of Allah, if you see fit to make me in charge of our right from the Khums which is in the book of Allah so that I may divide it in your life and no one would dispute it with me after you." so he did, Then he SAWS turned towards al-'Abbas and said: "O abu al-Fadl, will you not ask of me the same thing as your nephew?" and he replied: "No O prophet of Allah, my need is only what I have asked." So the Prophet SAWS made me in charge of it and I divided it during his life and then Abu Bakr may Allah be pleased with him made me in charge of it during his days and I divided it during his life and after him 'Umar may Allah be pleased with him made me in charge of it and I divided it, then in the last year of his rule he obtained a great amount of wealth and he saved us our share and sent after me and told me: "This is your money so take it and divide it the way you used to." so I ('Ali) replied to him and said: "O chief of believers! we do not need such an amount this year and the Muslims are in need of this money so offer it to them for this year."


sources: Musnad Ahmad, Musannaf ibn abi Shaybah, Sunan al-Beihaqi.

Grading: SAHIH.

[amr123]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?78239-Wrong-offer-of-choice-in-madhhab-category&p=670276#post670276

[wellwisher]

Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed Imams were on the Creed of Ahlesunnah wal Jama’ah (http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/part-1the-imams-from-ahlebayt-whom-shia-consider-to-be-their-divinely-appointed-imams-were-on-the-creed-of-ahlesunnah-wal-jama%E2%80%99ah/)


Part 2: The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed Imams were on the Creed of Ahlesunnah wal Jama’ah. (http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/09/27/part-2-the-imams-from-ahlebayt-whom-shia-consider-to-be-their-divinely-appointed-imams-were-on-the-creed-of-ahlesunnah-wal-jama%E2%80%99ah/)

please share your views ikhwan

[suleimanibnsalim]

Brother Tripoly, one neo-zaydi was quoting adh-dhahabi saying:

قال الذهبي : " قال إبراهيم نفطويه في سنة أربع وثلاثين ومائتين أشخص المتوكل الفقهاء والمحدثين فكان فيهم مصعب بن عبدالله الزبيري وإسحاق بن أبي إسرائيل وابراهيم بن عبدالله الهروي وأبوبكر وعثمان أبناء أبي شيبة وكانا من الحفاظ فقسّمت بينهم الجوائز وأمرهم المتوكل أن يحدثوا بالأحاديث التي فيها الرد على المعتزلة والجهمية(1) " أهـ

(1) سير أعلام النبلاء : 11/125

and those narrators were quite profilic in our books. could you find an answer to this from one of the forums? shukran [something like weakening of the above narration etc]

[Seeker Of Tasawwuf]

The Hypocrisy of Shia Sheikh Al-Tijani :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C2pXltI3_8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6F8dEzMq30&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ePXc-pucs&feature=related

[TripolySunni]

More Shia Ahadith about women...


الكافي للكليني (329 هـ) الجزء 5

Al Kafi by Shaikh Kulaini (329 AH), Volume 5

- عن أبي عبدالله (ع)قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): إنما المرأة لعبة، من اتخذها فلا يضيعها. ج 5 ص 510

From abi Abdullah (as) who said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Indeed the woman is a toy/doll, so whoever takes them should not waste them." (Volume 5, Page 510)

عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: لا بأس أن ينام الرجل بين أمتين والحرتين، إنما نساؤكم بمنزلة اللعب. ج 5 ص 560

From Abi Abdullah (as) who said: "It is not problematic that the man sleeps between the slave girls and the free women, indeed your women are akin to the toys." (Volume 5, Page 560)

عن عبدالملك بن عمرو قال: سألت أبا عبدالله (ع)مايحل للرجل من المرأة وهي حائض؟ قال: كل شئ غير الفرج، قال: ثم قال: إنما المرأة لعبة الرجل.ج 5 ص 539

From Abd al Malik b. Amru who said: I asked aba Abdullah (as) what is halal (permissible/legal) for the man of the woman while she is menstruating? Imam (as) said: "Everything other than the Furuj (women's genitalia)." He (narrator) said: Then he [Imam (as)] said: "Indeed the woman is the man's toy." (Volume 5, Page 539)

وسائل الشيعة: ج20 ص167 ب86 ح25324

Wasail al Shia by Shaikh Hurr al Amili (ra), Volume 20, Page 167, Section 86, Hadith no. 25324

عن أبي عبدالله (ع)قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): إنما المرأة لعبة، من اتخذها فلا يضيعها

From abi Abdullah (as) who said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Indeed the woman is a toy/doll, so whoever takes them should not waste them."

وسائل الشيعة ج21 ص186 ـ ص206

Wasail al Shia by Shaikh Hurr al Amili (ra), Volume 21, Page 186-206 عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام (قال:

لا بأس أن ينام الرجل بين أمتين والحرتين، وإنما نساؤكم بمنزلة اللعب

From abi Abdullah (as) who said: "It is not problematic that the man sleeps between the slave girls and the free women, indeed your women are akin to the toys."

كتاب وسائل الشيعة ج 2 ص 321 ـ 340

Wasail al Shia by Shaikh Hurr al Amili (ra), Volume 2, Page 321-340

عن عبدالملك بن عمرو قال: سألت أبا عبدالله (ع)مايحل للرجل من المرأة وهي حائض؟ قال: كل شئ غير الفرج، قال: ثم قال: إنما المرأة لعبة الرجل

From Abd al Malik b. Amru who said: I asked aba Abdullah (as) what is halal (permissible/legal) for the man of the woman while she is menstruating? Imam (as) said: "Everything other than the furuj." He (narrator) said: Then he [Imam (as)] said: "Indeed the woman is the man's toy."

الحدائق الناضرة - المحقق البحراني - ج ٢٤ - الصفحة ٣٢٧

Hadaiq al Nadhirah by Shaikh Yusuf al Bahrani (ra), Volume 24, Page 328

رواه في الكافي عن غياث بن إبراهيم عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام (قال:
لا بأس أن ينام الرجل بين أمتين والحرتين، وإنما نساؤكم بمنزلة اللعب

It is narrated in al Kafi from Ghiyas b. Ibrahim from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "It is not problematic that the man sleeps between the slave girls and the free women, indeed your women are akin to the toys."

ذخيرة المعاد (ط.ق) - المحقق السبزواري - ج ١ ق ١ - الصفحة ٧٢

Dhakhirah al Mu'ad by Muhaqqiq Sabzwari, Volume 1, Page 72

عن عبدالملك بن عمرو قال: سألت أبا عبدالله (ع)مايحل للرجل من المرأة وهي حائض؟ قال: كل شئ غير الفرج، قال: ثم قال: إنما المرأة لعبة الرجل

From Abd al Malik b. Amru who said: I asked aba Abdullah (as) what is halal (permissible/legal) for the man of the woman while she is menstruating? Imam (as) said: "Everything other than the furuj." He (narrator) said: Then he [Imam (as)] said: "Indeed the woman is the man's toy."

[TripolySunni]

Brother Tripoly, one neo-zaydi was quoting adh-dhahabi saying:

قال الذهبي : " قال إبراهيم نفطويه في سنة أربع وثلاثين ومائتين أشخص المتوكل الفقهاء والمحدثين فكان فيهم مصعب بن عبدالله الزبيري وإسحاق بن أبي إسرائيل وابراهيم بن عبدالله الهروي وأبوبكر وعثمان أبناء أبي شيبة وكانا من الحفاظ فقسّمت بينهم الجوائز وأمرهم المتوكل أن يحدثوا بالأحاديث التي فيها الرد على المعتزلة والجهمية(1) " أهـ

(1) سير أعلام النبلاء : 11/125

and those narrators were quite profilic in our books. could you find an answer to this from one of the forums? shukran [something like weakening of the above narration etc]

Salam Aleykum,

What's wrong with the above? The govt supporting scholars is a bad thing? It isn't like the hadiths that they narrated exist before their times.

[TripolySunni]

More about women in Shi'ism... honestly the Shia women will hate me for posting so many of these narrations... but its better that they know them:

كتاب من لا يحضره الفقيه — الجزء الثالث
للشيخ الجليل الاقدم الصدوق أبى جعفر محمد بن على بن الحسين بن بابويه القمى
المتوفى سنة 381

Man la yahdhuruhul Faqih by Shaikh Sadooq (381 AH), Third Volume

4534 - وروى عبدالله بن سنان عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: (ألهموهن حب علي عليه السلام وذروهن بلهاء

4534 - And narrated Abdullah b. Sinan from Abi Abdullah(as) who said: "Inspire the women with love of Ali(as) (and) leave them idiotic."

4535 - وروى إسماعيل بن أبي زياد عن جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه عليهما السلام عن آبائه عليهم السلام قال: (قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله: لا تنزلوا نساء*كم الغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة، ولا تعلموهن سورة يوسف، وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور

4535 - And it's narrated from Isma'il b. Abi Ziyad from Ja'far b. Muhammad (as) from his (as) father (as) from his forefathers (as) who said: Rasool Allah (PBUH) said: "Do not let your women come down the room and do not teach them to write, and do not teach them surah al Yusuf, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."

الفروع من الكافي - الجزء الخامس
تأليف:
ثقة الاسلام ابي جعفر محمد بن يعقوب بن اسحاق الكليني الرازي رحمه الله
المتوفى سنة 328 / 329 ه*

Furu' al Kafi, Volume 5. Compiled by Thiqat al Islam Abi Ja'far Muhammad b. Ya'qoob b. Ishaq al Kulaini al Razi (ra) (328/329 AH)

باب في تأديب النساء

Section on disciplining the women.
(10223) - 1 - علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن النوفلي، عن السكوني، عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: لاتنزلوا النساء بالغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور.

(10223) 1- Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from al Nofali,from al Sakooni, from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "Do not let the women come down by the room and do not teach them to write, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."

(10224) - 2 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن عمه يعقوب بن سالم رفعه قال: قال أمير المؤمنين (ع): لا تعلموا نساء كم سورة يوسف ولا تقرؤوهن إياها فإن فيها الفتن وعلموهن سورة النور فإن فيها المواعظ.

(10224) 2- A group from our companions, from Sahlb. Ziad, from Ali b. Asbat from his uncle Ya'qoob b. Salim who lifted it (the chain of narration), he said: Ali (as) said: "Do not teach your women Surah al Yusuf and do not read it to them for indeed in it is the sedition, while teach them Surah al Noor for indeed in it is the preaching."

(10225) - 3 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن جعفر بن محمد الاشعري، عن ابن القداح عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: نهى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أن يركب سرج بفرج

(10225) 3- A group from our companions, from Sahl b. Ziad, from Ja'far b. Muhammad al ash'ari, from ibn al Qadah from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "The Prophet (pbuh) forbid that a saddle be mounted/ridden by a furuj."

(10226) - 4 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن أبي عبدالله، عن محمد بن علي، عن إسماعيل بن يسار، عن منصور بن يونس، عن إسرائيل، عن يونس، عن أبي إسحاق، عن الحارث الاعور قال: قال أمير المؤمنين (ع) لا تحملوا الفروج على السروج فتهيجوهن للفجور

(10226) 4- A group from our companions, from Ahmad b. abi Abdullah, from Muhammad b. Ali, from Ismail b. Yasar, from Mansoor b. Yunus, from Israel, from Yunus, from abi Ishaq, from al Harith al A'oor who said: Ali (as) said: "Do not carry/load the furooj upon a saddle for you will stimulate them to immorality."


كتاب وسائل الشيعة للحر العاملي (1104 هـ) الجزء20 صفحة176

Wasail al shia by Shaikh Hurr al Amili (ra), Volume 20, Page 176

92 ـ باب كراهة انزال النساء الغرف وتعليمهن الكتابة وسورة
يوسف ، واستحباب تعليمهن الغزل وسورة النور ، ووجوب
أمر الاهل بالمعروف ونهيهم عن المنكر

92- Section on dislike of women coming down the room and teaching them writing and surah al Yusuf, and desirability of teaching them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Nur, and the obligation of enjoining good and forbidding from evil to the household/family.

[ 25355 ] 1 ـ محمد بن يعقوب ، عن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن النوفلي ، عن السكوني ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : قال رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) : لا تنزلوا النساء الغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور .
ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن إسماعيل بن أبي زياد ، يعني السكوني ، مثله

[25355] 1: Muhammad b. Ya'qoob, from Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from al Nofali, from al Sakuni , from abi Abdullah who said: "Do not let the women come down the room and do not teach them to write, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."
And Shaikh Sadooq (ra) narrated it by his isnad (chains of narration) from Ismail b. abi Ziyad, i.e. al Sakuni, similar to it.

[ 25356 ] 2 ـ وعن عدة من أصحابنا ، عن سهل بن زياد ، عن علي بن اسباط ، عن عمه يعقوب بن سالم رفعه ، قال : قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) : لا تعلموا نساءكم سورة يوسف ولا تقرؤوهن اياها فإنّ فيها الفتن وعلّموهنّ سورة النور فانّ فيها المواعظ .

[25356] 2- A group from our companions, from Sahlb. Ziad, from Ali b. Asbat from his uncle Ya'qoob b. Salim who lifted it (the chain of narration), he said: Ali (as) said: "Do not teach your women Surah al Yusuf and do not read it to them for indeed in it is the sedition, while teach them Surah al Noor for indeed in it is the preaching."

[ 25357 ] 3 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن عبدالله بن سنان ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : ألهموهن حب علي ( عليه السلام ) وذروهن بلهاً

[25357] 3- Muhammad b. Ali b. al Hussain by his isnad (chains of narration) from Abdullah b. Sinan from Abi Abdullah(as) who said: "Inspire the women with love of Ali(as) (and) leave them idiotic."

[ 25358 ] 4 ـ قال : وسئل الصادق ( عليه السلام ) وعن قول الله عزّ وجلّ ( قوا انفسكم وأهليكم نارا ) كيف نقيهن ؟ قال : تأمروهن وتنهونهن قيل له : إنا نأمرهن وننهاهن فلا يقبلن ، فقال : إذا أمرتموهن ونهيتموهن فقد قضيتم ما عليكم

[25358] 4- He narrator) said: And he asked al Sadiq (as) about the saying of Allah (swt) (in Al Qur'an 66:6): "save yourselves and your families from a Fire", how do we save/protect them? He [Imam (as)] said: "Command them and forbid them." It was said to him [Imam (as)]: "We do command them and forbid them but they do not accept." So he (as) said: "When you commanded and forbid them then you have fulfilled what is upon you people."

Translator's note: In the Arabic text, the feminine form for "them" and "they"has been used, therefore the hadith is talking about women.

أقول : وتقدم ما يدل على ذلك في الامر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر وفي قراءة القرآن في غير الصلاة وفيما يكتسب به، ويأتي ما يدل عليه

I (i.e. Shaikh Hurr al Amili) say: "And there has preceded what proves upon that regarding the enjoining of good and forbidding from evil, and regarding recitation of al Qur'an outside the prayers and on what is acquired by it, there is to come what indicates upon it."

مستدرك الوسائل - الميرزا النوري - ج ١٤ - الصفحة ٢٥٩

Mustadrak al Wasail by Muhadith Noori, Volume 14, Page 259

٧٢ (باب كراهة إنزال النساء الغرف، وتعليمهن الكتابة
وسورة يوسف، واستحباب تعليمهن الغزل وسورة النور،
ووجوب أمر الأهلين بالمعروف ونهيهم عن المنكر

Section 82- Dislike of women coming down the room, teaching them writing and Surah al Yusuf, and the desirability of teaching them spinning and Surah al Noor, and the obligation of enjoining good to one's family and forbidding them from the evil.

١٦٦٤٧) ١ الجعفريات: أخبرنا عبد الله، أخبرنا محمد، حدثني موسى
قال: حدثنا أبي، عن أبيه، عن جده جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن جده
علي بن الحسين، عن أبيه، عن علي (عليهم السلام)، قال: " قال رسول
الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): لا تنزلوا النساء الغرف، ولا تعلموهن الكتابة،
وعلموهن الغزل وسورة النور

16647) 1- (From the book) al J'afriat: Informed us Abdullah, informed us Muhammad, told me Musa who said: Told me my father, from his father, from his grandfather Ja'far b. Muhammad, from his father, from his grandfather Ali b. al Hussain, from his father, from Ali (as) who said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Do not let the women come down the room and do not teach them writing, while teach them spinning and Surah al Noor."

٦٦٤٨) ٢ وبهذا الاسناد قال: " قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله
نعم شغل المرأة (المؤمنة) الغزل

6648) 2- And by this isnad (chains of narration) he said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Yes, pastime of the believing woman is spinning."

١٦٦٤٩) ٣ وبهذا الاسناد، عن علي (عليه السلام)، قال: " أتى النبي صلى الله عليه وآله رجل من الأنصار بابنة له، فقال: يا رسول الله، ان
زوجها فلان بن فلان الأنصاري، وإنه ضربها فأثر في وجهها، فقال رسول
الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): ليس ذلك لك، فأنزل الله عز وجل:
(الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله به بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا
من أموالهم) (١) أي قوامون على النساء في الأدب، فقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): أردت أمرا وأراد الله غيره ".
روي هذا الخبر وسابقه في الدعائم: مثله

16649) 3- And by this isnadd (chains of narration), from Ali (as) who said: "A man from the ansar (people of Medina) came to him (pbuh) with his daughter and said: O Prophet of Allah (swt), her husband is so and so and he struck her so it effected her face." So the Prophet (pbuh) said: "That is not for you, for Allah (swt) has revealed [Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women) (4:34)], that is, in charge of women in disciplining/chastising." Then the Prophet (pbuh) said: "I wanted something but Allah (swt) willed something else"

And this narration and the one previous to it are narrated in al Da'aim (Da'aim al Islam by Qadi Nu'man) likewise.

١٦٦٥٠) ٤ وبهذا الاسناد قال: " قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله):
اضربوا النساء على تعليم الخير " وفي نسخة الشهيد: " الخبز ".

16650) 4- And by this isnad (chains of narration) he said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Strike/hit the women to teach them the goodness."

(١٦٦٥١) ٥ القطب الراوندي في لب اللباب: عن النبي (صلى الله عليه
وآله)، أنه قال: لا تسكنوا نساءكم الغرف، وتعلموهن الكتابة،
واستعينوا عليهن بالعري، وأكثروا عليهن من قول: (لا) فإن (نعم)
يغريهن على المسألة

16651) 5- Al Qutub al Rawandi in Lub al Lubab: From the Prophet (pbuh) that he (pbuh) said: "Do not lodge your women in the room, and teach them writing, and seek support upon them with deprivation, and say often to them "No" for indeed "Yes" lures them to problems."

١٦٦٥٢) ٦ الشيخ ورام في تنبيه الخاطر: عن رسول الله (صلى الله عليه
وآله)، أنه قال: " عمل الأبرار من الرجال الخياطة، وعمل الأبرار من
النساء الغزل

16656) 6- Shaikh Waram in Tanbih al Khatir, from the Prophet (pbuh) that he said: "Occupation of the righteous among the men is sewing, and occupation of the righteous among the the women is sewing."

١٦٦٥٣) ٧ الآمدي في الغرر: عن أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام)، أنه
قال: " إن رأيت من نسائك ريبعة (فعاجل) (١) لهن النكير على الصغيروالكبير، وإياك أن تكرر العتب فإن ذلك يغري بالذنب، ويهون
العتب

16653) 7- Al-Amdi in al Ghurar (Ghurar al Hikam): From Ali (as) that he said: "Indeed I saw among your women doubt (so hasten) to forbid them from the lesser and major (sins), and beware of constant reproaching for indeed that lures them to sin, and tones down the reproaching.

[TripolySunni]

ROFL!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWdq32OBnpY

[abdulwahhab]

:salam:

You have made my day.

:jazak:

[TripolySunni]

:salam:

You have made my day.

:jazak:

That's the Lion (al-Karrar) Akhi! He has a Latmiyah with the rest of his fellows in the Zoo (I mean Husseinyah).

[TripolySunni]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


Back in the past when the word "Wahhabi" wasn't invented yet, the Rafidhah used to describe anyone that criticizes them or differs with them or anyone they donot like in general as a "Nasibi", this article was written by a brother he put in some hard work so I'll post it here although its best to read it from the original source as the formatting is better (link provided at bottom of page):


Enemies and Haters of Ahlelbayt according to Shias

The shias generally categorize Muslims in two categories:
1. Lovers of Ahlelbayt(Shias).
2. Nasibis: The ones who were/are the haters and enemies of Ahlebayt.

But ironically Shias label even Ahlesunnah as Nasibis, though its not something unfamiliar that Ahlesunnah never remained on the back seat when it came to loving Ahlelbayt. Even the Shias most of the time quote those scholars who were renowned for their love for Ahlelbayt because even after being tortured and even when their lives were at risk, they remained firm on their love for Ahlelbayt, like Imam Shafa’i(rah), etc, yet these people weren’t saved from the nonacademic, illogical and biased Shia accusation of being Nasibi.

And the fact is that not only many Sunnis but even many Shias are unaware of this fact that the complete Ahlesunnah falls under the category of Nasibis, in accordance to the traditions the Shias have from their Imams and from the definations stated by the Shia scholars.

The purpose of this article is educate muslims and others, So that they could judge themselves that what kind of false, illogical and ridiculous allegations are made against Ahlesunnah by Shias, because of being insecure and jealous from Ahlesunnah. Since Ahlesunnah is the only sect which is on the middle course and which loves the Ahlelbayt in the true manner without any involvement of exaggerations in it, So these principle of Ahlesunnah attracts a lot of truthseekers and new converts.

We are going to divide this article into four sections:

[I] The definition of Nasibi, who are Nasibis and status of a “Nasibi” according to Shias.

[II] Sunni `ulama labelled as Nasibis by Ithna’ `Asharis.

[III] The Non-Human Nasibis.

[IV] A true lover of Ali(ra) in the light of Shia narrations.

[I] The Definition of “Nasibi”, status of a “Nasibi” , ruling on “Nasibi” according to Shias and who are “Nasibis” according to Shia Imams.

Shia scholars have never been hesitant in providing details about the Nasibis. So Here are the views of some Shia scholars and Shia narrations(hadeeth) regarding Nasibis.

1. Al-Allama al-Hilli says in Nihayat al-Ahkam [1:274]:

والخوارج والغلاة والناصب ، وهو الذي يتظاهر بعداوة أهل البيت ( عليهم السلام ) أنجاس

“The Kharijis, Ghulat and the Nasibi, who is who demonstrates enmity for Ahl al-Bayt alayhim al-salam, are impure individuals.”

2. When al-Shahid al-Awwal mentions the dog and its “brothers” in his Alfiyya on fiqh, al-Muhaqqiq al-Karaki comments upon it in it — per his Rasa’il [3:215]:

قوله : وأخواه . أي : الخنزير ، والكافر بأنواعه حتى الخوارج ، والغلاة ، والنواصب ، والمجسمة بالحقية

“His saying: ‘Its brothers…’ meaning, the swine, and all types of kafirs, even the Kharijis, Ghulat, Nasibis and Mujassima in the true sense.”

3. Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi says in commentary of a narration in Mir’at al-`Uqul [24:211] where the word “Nasibi” was used for a man:

إن كان المراد بالناصب، المبغض المعاند لأهل البيت عليهم السلام كما هو الأظهر فهو كافر، ودمه هدر

“If by ‘Nasibi’ it was meant the hater and enemy of the Ahl al-Bayt `alayhim al-salam, which is most obvious, then he is a kafir and his blood is to be spilled unavailingly.”

4. Ni`matullah al-Jaza’iri says about a “Nasibi” in al-Anwar al-Nu`maniyya [2:306]:

الذي ورد في الأخبار أنه نجس وأنه شر من اليهودي والنصراني والمجوسي، وأنه كافر نجس بإجماع علماء الشيعة الإمامية رضوان الله عليهم ، فالذي ذهب إليه أكثر الأصحاب هو أن المراد به من نصب العداوة لآل بيت محمد (ص)

“What is reported is that he is worse than the Jew, Christian and the Magian; and he is an impure kafir by the unanimity of the scholars of Shi`a Imamiyya ridwanullahi `alayhim; and what the majority of scholars have opined is that what is meant by nasb [i.e., the trait that makes one Nasibi] is enmity for the progeny of Muhammad sallallahu `alayhi wasallam.”

5. “It was narrated from the Prophet(saw) that the sign of the Nawasib is favoring other than Ali over him (i.e. a Nasibi is anyone that favors anyone over Ali, be it Abu Bakr, Umar, or Uthman) … This can also be returned to the first, [meaning] that what is meant by favoring others over him are those who do it in a manner of firm belief and certainty, in such a way that the imitators and the weak are not included; [That is because] their (i.e. the imitators) favoring of others over him (i.e. Ali) was a result of their imitation of their scholars, fathers, and predecessors, and that they have no means of arriving at [such a conclusion] or even affirming [it with certainty by themselves].
This meaning (i.e. that Nasibi is anyone who favors anyone over Ali) is supported the Imams [‘Alaihim AlSalam] and their Khawas (close companions) have referred to Abu Hanifa and his likes as Nasibiis. Even though Abu Hanifa was not from among those who demonstrated animosity to Aal Al-Bayt [‘Alaihim Al Salam], rather he used to [love] visiting [and accompanying] them, and used to demonstrate [love,] care and affection towards them. Yes, he did go against their views [in cases], and used to say: Ali said [so-and-so], [and] I say [so-and-so] [So] with that, the view of Al-Sayid Al-Murtada and Ibn Idrees [… their souls] is strengthened, as well as the view of some of our contemporary scholars that all those that oppose us (Al-Mukhalifeen) are Najasah (Filth – unclean). That is based on using the terms Kufr and Shirk to describe them in the Book and the Sunnah, so that term would [also] encompass them when used, and because you have verified that most of them are Nawasib by that meaning.( Book: Anwar an-Nomaniyah. Vol 2, page 308, Author: Nematullah Jazairi.) [Scan page 1 ; page 2]

6. Ayatollah al-Sayyid Murtada al-`Askari says in Ma`alim al-Madrasatayn [1:81] that “Nasibi” according to them is:

كل من يبغض الأئمة من أهل البيت عليهم السلام

“Everyone who hates the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt.”

7. Grand Ayatollah al-Sayyid Bashir al-Najafi describes him in one of his answers as:

الناصبي هو الذي يظهر العداء لأحد المعصومين ابتداءً من الرسول الأعظم صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ، إلى الإمام المنتظر والزهراء عليهم السلام وأما السب فاجتنبه ، ويجوز لك أن تلعنه بينك وبين ربك ، وتلعن من لا يلعنه ، ولكن فليكن ذلك بينك وبين الله لتحظى بالأجر على البراءة من أعداء الله ورسوله وأعداء ذريته لعنهم الله

“Nasibi is he who makes (his) enmity for anyone of the infallibles obvious, starting from the greatest Messenger sallalahu `alayhi wasallam to the awaited Imam and al-Zahra’ `alayhim al-salam. As for insulting him, then take precaution; and it is permissible for you that you curse him between you and your Lord, and that you curse whoever doesn’t curse him, but that will be between you and Allah because you are receiving reward over disassociation from the enemies of Allah, His Messenger and the enemies of his projeny la`anahum allah.”

8. Shia sheikh Muhammad Hasan an-Najafi al-Jawhari in his book “Jawaher al-kalam” (vol 6, p 66) quoted other shia scholar saying:

“أن الناصب يطلق على خمسة أوجه: الخارجي القادح في علي (ع)، الثاني ما ينسب إلى أحدهم (عليهم السلام) ما يسقط العدالة، الثالث من ينكر فضيلتهم لو سمعها، الرابع من اعتقد فضيلة غير علي (ع)، الخامس من أنكر النص على علي (ع) بعد سماعه أو وصوله إليه بوجه يصدقه

The Nasibi title is designated(for a person) over five reasons: For a Khariji who criticizes Ali (as); Secondly for he who attributes something that invalidates uprightness (adala) to any of the Imams, Thirdly, for he who denies a virtue of theirs when he heard it; Fourthly, for one who believes in the superiority of someone other than Ali (over him); Fifthly, he who denied the report of explicit election of Ali after hearing it or its reaching to him in a manner that allows him to confirm it”.

9. Muhammad Tijani Samawi in his book “The Shi’ah are (the real) Ahl al-Sunnah” etitled 30 chapter “Enmity of “Ahl al-Sunnah” Towards Ahl al-Bayt Reveals their Identity”.

In the very begining of this chapter shia said: Any researcher stands dumbfounded when he collides with the reality about “Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jama`ah” and comes to know that they were the enemies of the pure Progeny of the Prophet, following those who fought Ahl al-Bayt and cursed them and spared no means to murder them and obliterate their legacy. This is why you find “Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jama`ah” placing the label of “reliable” on all traditionists if they are Kharijites or Nasibi followers of Uthman. They charge and accuse all the traditionists who are loyal to Ahl al-Bayt of being “weak.

10. Hussain ibn al-Shaikh Muhammad al-Usfoor ad-Drazi al-Bahrani in his book “Mahasin nafsaniya fi ajwibat masail horasaniya” (p157) said:

أنه ليس الناصب إلا عبارة عن التقديم على علي غيره

“As you have learned before term nasib doesn’t mean other thing than favour someone over Ali”

11. Shia scholar Husien Aal-‘Asfour states : “… Rather, their narrations [‘Alaihim Al-Salam] are in declaration that the Nasibi is he who is referred to as the Sunni”.

He then brings a narration to support what he is saying, and comments on it saying:

“And there is no disagreement that what is meant by the Nasibah in [that narration] are the People of Sunnah (Sunnis), who say that the Azhan was shown to Ubi ibn Kaa’b in a dream. So it became apparent for you that the dispute between those holding these three views [about the definition of the Nasibi] – i.e. those who said that it involves only favoring, carrying hatred to their Shi’ah as was adopted by Muhammad Amin in Al-Fawaed Al-Madaniya, and carrying animosity towards them ‘Alaihim Al-Salam, as is what is chosen by … is only a linguistic dispute, since it is clear how these [three views] are [attached and related] to each other”. (Book: “Al-Mahasen Al-Nafsaniyah fee Ajwebat Al-Masael Al-Khurasaniya”, p. 147) (Scan page)

12.
قال الصادق (ع) الناصب لنا أهل البيت لا يبالي صام أو صلى أو زنى أو سرق
إنه في النار

Imam al Sadiq(as) said: “The nasibi of ahlul bayt shouldn’t care about fasting or praying or doing zina(fornication) or stealing because he (will go) in the fire(of hell). (Thawabul a’amal wa aqabul aaa’mal)

13.
ومنها – ما رواه الشيخ في الصحيح عن حفص بن البختري عن أبي عبد الله ع قال : (خذ مال الناصب حيثما وجدته وادفع إلينا الخمس

And from them – what the shaikh narrated in (by) the saheeh/authentic (chain of narration) from Hafs b. al Bakhtari from abi Abdullah (as) who said: “Take wealth of the nasib wherever you find it and send to us the khums (fifth portion).” (Hadaiq al Nadhirah)

14.
روى الشيخ في التهذيب في الصحيح عن حفص بن البختري عن أبي عبد الله ع قال : ” خذ مال الناصب حيثما وجدته وادفع إلينا الخمس ” رواه بسند آخر عن معلى بن خنيس عن أبي عبد الله ع مثله

Narrated the shaikh (Shaikh Tusi) in al Tahdheeb in saheeh/authentic (chain of narration) from Hafs b. al Bakhtari from abi Abdullah (as) who said: “Take wealth of the nasib wherever you find it and send to us the khums (fifth portion).”, narrated by last sanad (chain of narration) Mu’alla b. Khunais from abi Abdullah (as) similar to it.( al Tahdheeb of Tusi)

15. Al Hadaiq al Nadhirah of Shaikh Yusuf al Bahrani (1186 AH) Volume 18 Page 156

وروى في العلل عن الصحيح عن داود بن فرقد قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله ع: ما تقول في قتل الناصب ؟ قال: حلال الدم ولكن اتقى عليك فإن قدرت أن تقلب عليه حائطا أو تغرقه في ماء لكي لا يشهد به عليك فافعل . قلت فما ترى في ماله ؟ قال: أتوه ما قدرت عليه

And it is narrated in al Illal from saheeh (chain of narration) from Dawood b. Farqad who said: I said to abi Abdullah (as): “What do you say about killing the nasib?” Imam (as) said: “The blood is halal but I fear upon you, so if you are able to bring down upon him a wall or drown him in water so that no one witnesses by it upon you then do so.” I said: “So what do you consider about his property?” Imam (as) said: “Destroy upon it what you are able to.”

16. Illal ul Sharai of Shaikh Sadooq (381 AH) Volume 2 Page 601

58 – أبي رحمه الله قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله عن أحمد بن محمد عن علي ابن الحكم عن سيف بن عميرة عن داود بن فرقد قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله ع ما تقول في قتل الناصب قال: حلال الدم لكني اتقي عليك فان قدرت أن تقلب عليه حائطا أو تغرقه في ماء لكيلا يشهد به عليك فافعل قلت: فما ترى في ماله قال توه ما قدرت عليه

58- My father (ra) said: Told us Sa’d b. Abdullah from Ahmad b. Muhammd from Ali ibn al Hakam from Saif b. Umairah from Dawood b. Farqad who said: I said to abi Abdullah (as): “What do you say about killing the nasib?” Imam (as) said: “The blood is halal but I fear upon you, so if you are able to bring down upon him a wall or drown him in water so that no one witnesses by it upon you then do so.” I said: “So what do you consider about his property?” Imam (as) said: “Destroy upon it what you are able to.”

[B]Who’s a nasibi?

1. Ma’ani al akhbaar by Shaikh Sadooq (ra)

(باب) * (معنى الناصب) *

Section (on the) (Meaning of the [term] nasibi)

حدثنا محمد بن على ماجيلويه – رضى الله عنه – قال: حدثني عمى محمد بن أبي القاسم، عن محمد بن على الكوفي، عن ابن فضال عن المعلى بن خنيس، قال: سمعت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام يقول: ليس الناصب من نصب لنا أهل البيت لانك لاتجد أحدا يقول: أنا ابغض محمدا وآل محمد، ولكن الناصب من نصب لكم وهو يعلم أنكم تتولونا أو تتبرؤون من أعدائنا، وقال عليه السلام: من أشبع عدوا لنا فقد قتل وليا لنا

Told us Muhammad b. Ali Majiluwaih (ra) who said: Told me my uncle Muhammad b. abi al Qasim, from Muhammad b. Ali al Kufi, from ibn Fudhaal from al Mu’alla b. Khunais, who said: I heard Aba Abdullah (as) saying: “The nasib is not one who has hatred for us ahlulbayt (as) for indeed you will not find anyone saying: I detest Muhammad (pbuh) and his (pbuh) pure family, but instead the nasib is one who has hatred for you people and he knows that you people love us (as) or hate those from our (as) enemies.” And [Imam (as)] said: “Whoever fed our enemy, then he has killed a friend of ours.”
2. Thawabul ‘amaal wa ‘aqaabul ‘amaal by Shaikh Sadooq (ra)
و بهذا الإسناد عن محمد بن أحمد عن إبراهيم بن إسحاق عن عبد الله بن حماد [عبد الله بن سنان] عن أبي عبد الله (ع) قال ليس الناصب من نصب لنا أهل البيت لأنك لم تجد رجلا يقول أنا الناصب [أبغض] محمدا و آل محمد و لكن الناصب من نصب لكم و هو يعلم أنكم تتوالونا و أنكم من شيعتنا

And from same chains from Muhammad b. Ahmad from Ibrahim b. Ishaq from ‘Abdullah b. Hammad['Abdullah b. Sinan] from Abi Abdullah(as) said: “The nasib is not one who has hatred for us ahlulbayt(as) for indeed you won’t find a man say I’m the hater (I detest/loathe) of Muhammad (PBUH) and the pure family of Muhammad(PBUH) but instead the nasib is the one who has hatred for you people and he knows that you people love us and that you people are among our shias.”

Comment: From these reports we can realize that the complete Ahlesunnah are Nasibis according to Shias, since no true sunni could avaoid hating the Shia, since they insult or curse Sahaba and mothers of belivers and call them hypocrites or misguided ones.

Summary: So according to esteemed Shia scholars, and the narrations of their Imams, a Nasibi is one who hates the progeny of Muhammad(saw) or WHO HATES THE SHIAS, who prefers anyone over Ali(ra) and many more. So from these principles without a Shadow of doubt the complete Ahlesunnah are Nasibis according to Shias, as some of the Shia scholars explicitly stated. Moreover we find that Nasibis according to Shias are kafir, impure [najis], worse than Jews, Christians and Magians; all their acts of worship are useless, they deserves curse [la`na] and resembles dogs and pigs, and their wealth can be taken and their blood should be spilled.

[II] The Sunni Scholars who were labeled as Nasibis by Shia Scholars.

The following is a list of some(from many) of highly respected Scholars of Ahlesunnah who have been labeled as Nasibis by Shia scholars.

(1) Imam Abu Hanifa

Nematullah Jazairi wrote in this book: This meaning (i.e. that Nasibi is anyone who favors anyone over Ali) is supported the Imams [‘Alaihim AlSalam] and their Khawas (close companions) have referred to Abu Hanifa and his likes as Nasibiis. Even though Abu Hanifa was not from among those who demonstrated animosity to Aal Al-Bayt [‘Alaihim Al Salam], rather he used to [love] visiting [and accompanying] them .( Book: Anwar an-Nomaniyah. Vol 2, page 308, Author: Nematullah Jazairi.)

(2) Imam al-Sha`bi

Grand Ayatollah Hasan al-Lawasani mentions him in Nur al-Afham [2:34] as:
وعامر الشعبي الناصبي المنحرف عن أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام
“…and `Amir al-Sha`bi, the Nasibi, perverted about Amir al-Mu’minin…”

(3) Imam Malik

Muhammad al-Tijani says in The Shi`a are Real Ahl al-Sunna (Arabic [103]):
ومما سبق نفهم بأن الإمام مالكا كان من النواصب
“From the above text we can understand that Imam Malik was a Nasibi…”

(4) Imam al-Shafi`i

al-Muhaqqiq al-Bahrani has written poetry against Imam al-Shafi`i. He starts it with:
كذبت في دعواك يا شافعي * فلعنة الله على الكاذب
“You lied in your claim, O Shafi`i! and the curse of Allah is upon the liar.”

After a couple of lines, he says:
فالشرع والتوحيد في معزل * عن معشر النصاب يا ناصبي
“Shari`a and tawhid is in a different place, from the group of Nasibis, O Nasibi!”

(5) Imam Ahmad

al-Kash-shi says about him — per al-Arba`in [652] by al-Shirazi:
هو من أولاد ذي الثدية ، جاهل ، شديد النصب
“He is from the offspring of Dhul Thudayya; an ignorant, extreme in nasb…”

(6) Imam Ibn Ma`in

Grand Ayatollah al-Mar`ashi says in Sharh Ihqaq al-Haq [7:398]:
وكذا الكلام في يحيى بن معين ، فإنه كان أمويا ناصبيا
“The same speech goes for Yahya ibn Ma`in, for he was an Umayyad Nasibi…”

(7) Imam Abu Dawud

Shaykh Baqir al-Mahmudi refers to him in the hashiya of Jawahir al-Matalib [151] as:
وهو عبد الله بن سليمان بن الأشعث الناصبي
“He is `Abdullah ibn Sulayman ibn al-Ash`at the Nasibi…”

(8) Imam Ibn Hibban

Ayatollah Taqi al-Tustari refers to his opinion in Qamus al-Rijal [9:283] as:
قول ابن حبان الناصبي
“…The saying of Ibn Hibban the Nasibi…”

Grand Ayatollah Muhsin al-Amin mentions it as:
قول ابن حبان الناصبي المعروف
“…Saying of the known Nasibi Ibn Hibban…”

(9) Imam al-Daraqutni

Ayatollah `Ali al-Namazi says about him in Mustadrakat [8:514]:
وكان ناصبيا
“He was a Nasibi.”

(10) Imam Abu Bakr al-Baqillani

Shaykh Muhsin al-Mu`allim counts him in his list of Nasibis in his book al-Nasb wa al-Nawasib [459], and then mentions reasons why he is supposedly a Nasibi.

(11) Abu Hayyan al-Tawhidi

Ayatollah al-Sayyid Murtada al-`Amili says in al-Sahih min Sirat al-Nabi [5:278]
ومن الأمور الطريفة هنا : أن أبا حيان التوحيدي – الناصبي المعروف – يروي
“Among the strange points here is that Abu Hayyan al-Tawhidi, the known Nasibi, narrates…”

(12) al-Khatib al-Baghdadi

Taqi al-Tustari says in the Qamus al-Rijal [9:390]:
ولا عبرة بقول الخطيب الناصبي
“… And no importance is to be given to the opinion of the Nasibi al-Khatib.”

And quotes him as [9:555]:
وفي تاريخ بغداد للخطيب الناصبي
“It is in Tarikh Baghdad by the Nasibi al-Khatib…”

(13) Imam al-Ghazali

al-Muqaddas al-Ardabili says — per Tara’if al-Maqal [1:122] — while mentioning the Imam’s alleged discussion with al-Sayyid al-Murtada ibn al-Da`i al-Hasani:
السيد المرتضى الذي جرت له المباحثة مع الغزالي الناصبي هو ابن الداعي الحسني
“The Sayyid Murtada, between whom and the Nasibi al-Ghazali the conversation took place, is Ibn al-Da`i al-Hasani.”

Sulayman al-Mahuzi says in al-Arba`in [379] when referring to al-Ghazali:
والعجب من هذا الناصب كيف
“…And it is astonishing how this Nasibi…”

(14) Imam Ibn al-Jawzi

Ayatollah Taqi al-Tustari mentions him in Qamus al-Rijal [11:599] as:
ابن الجوزي هو ” عبد الرحمن بن علي الناصبي “
“Ibn al-Jawzi: He is Abdul Rahman ibn `Ali, the Nasibi…”

(15) Imam al-Fakhr al-Razi

Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi mentions Imam al-Razi as a Nasibi in several of his works. In Bihar al-Anwar [35:384], he quotes him as:
وأفحش من ذلك ما ذكره الرازي الناصبي حيث قال
“And more indecent than that is what was mentioned by the Nasibi al-Razi when he said…”

Sulayman al-Mahuzi says in al-Arba`in [64] after quoting him:
العجب من قول هذا الناصب كيف
“The amazing thing from the saying of this Nasibi is that how…”

Nimatullah al-Jaza’iri also refers to him in Nur al-Barahin [2:228] as:
حتى أن الناصبي فخر الرازي ذكر في خاتمة كتاب المحصل
“…to the extent that the Nasibi Fakhr al-Razi mentioned in the end of the book al-Muhassal…”

After this, al-Jaza’iri quotes another thing and says:
وهذا الكلام صريح في كفر هذين الرجلين الرازي وابن جرير
“This expression is explicit in the kufr of these two men, al-Razi and (Sulayman) ibn Jarir…”

(16) Imam al-Dhahabi

al-Shahid al-Thalith Nurullah al-Shustri in his refutation of Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, refers to al-Dhahabi in al-Sawarim al-Muhriqa [198] as:
وأما ما نقله عن الذهبي الناصبي ذهب الله بنوره
“As for what he has copied from the Nasibi al-Dhahabi, may Allah take the nur away from him…”

Muhsin al-Amin says in A`yan al-Shi`a [3:294]:
ذكره الذهبي الناصبي في ميزانه
“He was mentioned by the Nasibi al-Dhahabi in his Mizan…”

And Ayatollah `Ali al-Korani quotes him in Ma`rifat Allah as:
قال الذهبي الناصبي في ميزان الإعتدال
“The Nasibi al-Dhahabi said in Mizan al-I`tidal…”

(17) Ibn Kathir

Ayatollah Muhiyy al-Din al-Mamaqani says in the hashiya of Tanqih al-Maqal [5:175]:
وفي البداية والنهاية للناصبي ابن كثير
“It is in al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya by the Nasibi Ibn Kathir…”

Shaykh Baqir al-Mahmudi says in his hashiya of Shawahid al-Tanzil [2:192]
كذا رواه الناصبي المحترف ابن كثير
“And it was reported similarly by the professional Nasibi Ibn Kathir…”

Shaykh Muhsin al-Mu`allim also labels him as a Nasibi in al-Nasb wa al-Nawasib [283]

(18) al-Iyji

al-Mahuzi says in al-Arba`in [284] about the author of al-Mawaqif, al-Iyji:
اعترض القاضي الناصب في المواقف
“The Nasibi Qadi objected in al-Mawaqif…”

He later says in the same book [289]:
أن القاضي المتعصب الناصب في المواقف أورد هذا الخبر
“…That the bigot Nasibi Qadi documented this report in al-Mawaqif…”

(19) Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani

Ayatollah Taqi al-Tustari says about a narrator in Qamus al-Rijal [9:286]:
وثقه ابن حجر الناصبي
“…He was declared trustworthy by the Nasibi Ibn Hajar…”

(20) Hafiz al-Suyuti

Sulayman al-Majuzi says in al-Arba`in [390], about al-Suyuti’s interpretation:
وعلى كل حال فتأويل هذا الناصب الجاهل
“In any case, the interpretation of this ignorant Nasibi…”

(21) Shaykh Ibn Hajar al-Haythami

Ni`matullah al-Jaza’iri says in Nur al-Barahin [2:158]:
ولما نظر ابن حجر الناصبي إلى أن هذا الخبر يستلزم
“When Ibn Hajar the Nasibi viewed that this report necessitates…”

al-Qadi Nurullah al-Shustari mentions him in al-Sawarim al-Muhriqa [268] as:
هذا الشيخ المتعصب الجامد الناصبي
“This prejudiced, arrogant and Nasibi Shaykh…”

al-Sayyid Hasan Aal al-Mujaddid al-Shirazi says in al-Nisal al-Khariqa — per Turathuna [50/239] — after quoting Ibn Hajar:
فهل يستجيز هذا الناصب أن يقول في كتابه
“So does this Nasibi ask for permission when he says in his book…”

The reason why Ibn Hajar got fame as a “Nasibi” among Shias, is because of his refutation of them known as al-Sawa`iq al-Muhriqa, even though he filled his book with countless virtues of Ahl al-Bayt which are oft-quoted by Shias. Muhsin al-Mu`allim counts him as a Nasibi in al-Nasb wa al-Nawasib [279] and Mirza `Ali Muhammad Khan even named his refutation of Ibn Hajar’s al-Sawa`iq: “al-Shuhub al-Thawaqib fi Tard al-Shaytan al-Nasib” (“The Shooting Stars in Repelling the Nasibi Devil”)!

(22) Shah Waliullah al-Dehlawi

Ayatollah `Ali al-Milani says in Nafahat al-Azhar [19:415] while mentioning Waliullah’s son `Abdul `Aziz:
قد شبه ( الدهلوي ) انشعاب السلاسل من أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام إلى الشعب المختلفة…خلافا لوالده صاحب قرة العينين ، وغيره من النواصب
“al-Dehlawi likened the branching of the silsilas of Amir al-Mu’minin `alayhis salam to to different branches… as opposed to his father, the author of Qurrat al-`Aynayn, and other Nasibis…”

(23) Shah `Abdul `Aziz al-Dehlawi

Mirza `Abdullah Efendi al-Isfahani refers to him in Riyad al-`Ulama as — per Khatimat al-Mustadrak [2:175] by al-Nuri:
عبد العزيز الناصبي الدهلوي ذكر في التحفة
“…The Nasibi`Abdul `Aziz mentioned in the Tuhfa…”

Ayatollah `Ali al-Milani mentions in Nafahat al-Azhar [4:271] that some of the top Ithna’ `Ashari scholars said in reply to Shah `Abdul `Aziz:
أما ما ذكره هذا الناصبي عن النواصب
“As for what was mentioned about the Nasibis by this Nasibi…”

(24) Abul Qasim an-Naysaburi

Zaynutdin Al-Amuli in his “as-Sirat al-Mustagim” ( 2/183) said:
و عد أبو القاسم الحسين بن حبيب و هو من شيوخ الناصبية في كتاب التنزيل
And added Abul Qasim al-Husayn ibn Hubayb and he was from shuyukh of nawasib in his book “at-Tanzil”.

(25) Mahmud Shukri al-Alusi

Shaykh al-Sayyid Baqir al-Hujja wrote a refutation of his attacks on Ithna’ `Ashari creed and named it: “al-Sahm al-Thaqib fi Radd Ma Laffaqahu al-Nasib” (“The Shooting Arrow in Refutation of What Was Fabricated by the Nasibi”)

Note: What list of Sunni scholars who were lebeled as Nasibis by Shia scholars is a result of short research, we are sure that if one attempts to research futher then a lot more names can be found, in fact, a whole booklet can be compiled showing how Sunni scholars have been labeled as “Nasibis” by Shia scholars.

Comment: This must be a good lesson for the ignorant ones from Ahlesunnah who take the word of Shias without proper iinvestigation that Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah and Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab Tamimi(who was from the lucky tribe of Banu tameem) were Nasibis. Because its not that Shias label only these two scholars as Nasibis, but they consider all the esteemed scholars of Ahlesunnah as Nasibis. So please protect yourselves from being fooled by the Shias who try to portray before you that these two scholars were Nasibis.

[B][III] The Non-Human Nasibis.

This section is funny but its not strange since shia books are filled with jokes, So enjoy reading these reports and do not forget to watch the videos.

(1) The Sun

The sun refuses to obey The Imam and rejects the Wilayah al-Takweeniyah that Allah bestowed upon the Imams according to the Twelvers, we read in ‘Ilal al-Sharae’e by al-Saduq volume 2 page 351:

حدثنا أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال حدثنا عبد الرحمن بن محمد الحسينيقال: حدثنا فرات بن إبراهيم الكوفي قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد الفزاري قالحدثنا محمد بن الحسين قال حدثنا محمد بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا أحمد بن نوح وأحمد ابنهلال عن محمد بن أبي عمير عن حنان قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله (ع) ما العلة فيترك أمير المؤمنين (ع) صلاة العصر وهو يجب له أن يجمع بين الظهر والعصرفأخرها ؟ قال: إنه لما صلى الظهر التفت إلى جمجمة ملقاة فكلمها أمير المؤمنين (ع)فقال أيتها الجمجمة من أين أنت؟ فقالت: أنا فلان ابن فلان ملك بلاد آل فلان قاللها أمير المؤمنين (ع) فقصي على الاخبار وما كنت وما كان عصرك؟ فأقبلتالجمجمة تقص من خبرها وما كان في عصرها من خير وشر فاشتغل بها حتى غابتالشمس فكلمها بثلاثة أحرف من الإنجيل لئلا يفقه العرب كلامها فلما فرغ من حكايةالجمجمة .قال للشمس : ارجعيقالت : لا أرجع وقد أفلتفدعا الله عز وجل فبعث إليها سبعين الف ملك بسبعين الف سلسلة حديد فجعلوها في رقبتها وسحبوها على وجههاحتى عادت بيضاء نقية حتى صلى أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام ثم هوت كهوى الكوكب .٢ – وحدثني بهذا الحديث ، الحسن بن محمد بن سيد الهاشمي عن فرات بنإبراهيم بن فرات الكوفي باسناده وألفاظه

1- Ahmad bin al-Hassan al-Qattan told us: ‘Abdul-Rahman ibn Muhammad al-Husseini said: Furat ibn Ibrahim al-Kufi said: Ja’afar ibn Muhammad al-Fizari said: Muhammad ibn al-Hussein said: Muhammad ibn Isma’il said: Ahmad ibn Nuh and Ahmad ibn Hilal both said that Muhammad ibn abi ‘Umair narrated from Hinan: I asked Imam Abu ‘Abdullah (as): Why did Ameer al-Mumineen (as) leave the prayer of ‘Asr while he could have joined al-Dhuhr and al-’Asr, why did he delay it?

The Imam replied: When he prayed al-Dhuhr he saw a skull laying on the ground so he (as) spoke to it and said: O skull, which lands do you come from? The Skull answered him saying: I am fulan ibn fulan the king of the lands of aal fulan. Ameer al-Mumineen (as) said: Tell me your story and tell me about your days.

So the skull started narrating its story and describing the good and the bad of its era and Ameer al-Mumineen was busy talking to this skull until the sun set, he talked to it with the language of the bible so that the Arabs wouldn’t understand their conversation and when he was done talking to this skull he(Ali) addressed the sun and said: “Come Back” So the Sun said: “I will Not Come Back” so he made Du’a to Allah and Allah sent 70,000 Angels with 70,000 steel chains and they tied them around the sun’s neck and dragged her on her face until it returned to its bright white colour and after ‘Ali (as) finished praying the sun fell back down like a star.

2- And al-Hassan bin Muhammad bin Sayyed al-Hashimi told me the same narration from Furat ibn Ibrahim bin Furat al-Kufi with its Isnad.

Comment: So as you can see Ameer al-Mumineen(ra) was too busy listening to the stories and tales of this random skull that he forgot to make the obligatory prayer and thus Allah had to drag the Nasibi disobedient Sun back up into the sky… Masha-Allah.

[IV] A true lover of Ali(ra) in the light of Shia narrations

1. Sheikh Sadooq (Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi) in his book Uyoon Akhbaar al-Ridha brought a report in which simply confirms that Iblis(satan) is one of Ali’s lovers and fans:

عن ابى بكر محمد بن احمد بن الحسين بن يوسف بن زريق البغدادي عن على بن محمد بن عيينة مولى الرشيد ، عن دارم بن قبيصة بن نهثل بن مجمع النهشلي الصنعانى بسر من رأى ، عن على بن موسى الرضا عليه السلام عن أبيه موسى بن جعفر عن ابيه ، عن آبائه ، عن على بن ابي طالب عليهم السلام قال : كنت جالسا عند الكعبة وإذا شيخ محدودب ، قد سقط حاجباه على عينيه من شدة الكبر ، وفى يده عكازة ، وعلى رأسه برنس احمر ، وعليه مدرعة من الشعر ، فدنا إلى النبي صلى الله عليه واله وسلم وهو مسند ظهره إلى الكعبة ، فقال : يا رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله وسلم ادع لى بالمغفرة فقال النبي صلى الله عليه واله وسلم : خاب سعيك يا شيخ وضل عملك ، فلما تولى الشيخ ، قال : يا أبا الحسن أتعرفه ؟ قلت اللهم لا . قال : ذلك اللعين ابليس . قال على عليه السلام : فعدوت خلفه حتى لحقته وصرعته إلى الارض وجلست على صدره ووضعت يدى في حلقه لأخنقه ، فقال لى : لا تفعل يا أبا الحسن فانى من المنظرين إلى يوم الوقت المعلوم ، ووالله يا على انى لاحبك ، وما ابغضك احد الا شركت أباه في امه ، فصار ولد الزنا ، فضحكت وخليت سبيله

“………..From Ali bin Musa al-Ridha, from his father Musa bin Ja’far, from his father, from his forefathers, from Ali bin Abi Talib saying: I once was sitting by the Ka’bah, behold I saw an old man with a bent back, his eye bras were falling over his eyes due to aging, holding a staff with his hand, a red hat topping his head, and wearing a woolen vest. He approached the Prophet [saw] while his back was liening against the Ka’bah, and said: O Messenger of Allah, pray for my forgiveness. The Messenger [saw] said: Your endeavor and deeds are in vain. When the old man left, he said: O Abul-Hasan, do you know who was he? I said: By Allah I don’t. He said: that was the cursed Iblis. Ali said: I then went after him, when I cought up with him, I threw him on the ground, sat over his chest, with my hand on his throat to choke him up. He said to me: O Abul-Hasan, do not do it, for I am given a chance till a certain known time. By Allah O Ali, I love you, (to the point) there’s no one hated you that I did not share with his dad his mother and made him a son of fornication. So I laughed and sat him free.”

2. Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, best known as al-Sadooq, author of the well know book (من لا يحضره السفيه) reported in his book “Ilal al-sharaa’ie” the following:

“… عن أبي هارون العبدي عن جابر بن عبد الله الأنصاري قال: كنا بمنى مع رسول الله إذ بصرنا برجل ساجد وراكع ومتضرع، فقلنا يا رسول الله ما أحسن صلاته، فقال (ص) هو الذي أخرج أباكم من الجنة. فمضى إليه علي (ع) غير مكترث فهزه هزة أدخل أضلاعه اليمنى في اليسرى، واليسرى في اليمنى، ثم قال: لأقتلنك إن شاء الله، فقال: لن تقدر على ذك إلى أجل معلوم من عند ربي. مالك تريد قتلي، فو الله ما أبغضك أحد إلا سبقت نطفتي إلى رحم أمه قبل نطفة أبيه، ولقد شاركت مبغضيك في الأموال والأولاد وهو قول الله عز وجل في محكم كتابه “وشاركهم في الأموال والأولاد”. قال النبي (ص): صدق يا علي لا يبغضك من قريش إلا سفاحي، ولا من الأنصار إلا يهودي، ولا من العرب إلا دعي، ولا من سائر الناس إلا شقي، ولا من النساء إلا سلقلقية وهي التي تحيض من دبرها، ثم أطرق مليا ثم رفع رأسه فقال: معاشر الأنصار، اعرضوا أولادكم على محبة علي فإن أجابوا فهم منكم وإن أبوا فليسوا منكم. قال جابر بن عبد الله: فكنا نعرض حب علي (ع) على أولادنا فمن أحب عليا علمنا أنه من أولادنا، ومن أبغض عليا انتفينا منه” [علل الشرائع 1/171: باب 120 الرواية 7]

From Abu Haroon al-Abdi, from Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansaari saying: While we were at Mina with the Messenger of Allah, behold we have seen a man prostrating, kneeling and in humility (praying to Allah). We consequently said: O Messenger of Allah, what a beautiful prayer he is performing. The Messenger [sallalahu alaihi wa ali] replied: It was him(Iblis) who caused your forefather to be out of paradise.

Ali then walked to him carelessly and shook him in a way it caused his right ribs to cross into his left ribs and his left ribs into his right ribs, and said: I’m going to kill you insha Allah.

(The man) Said: You cannot till the prescribed time of my Lord becomes due. Why would you want to kill me? By Allah no one hated you but my sperms reached his mother’s womb before his dad’s. (Furthermore) I’ve shared with your haters their wealth and children which is the (lieteral interpretation) of Allah Azza WaJal saying:
“mutually share with them wealth and children” (17:64)

The Messenger [sallalahu alaihi wa ali] said: O Ali, he has said the truth, whoever hates you among the Qura****es is but a bastar/d, and out of the Ansaar but a Jew, and out of the Arabs but a foundling, and out of the rest of the people but a culprit, and no woman but she be of those who menstruate from her anus.

He then kept silent for a while, then lifted up his head and said:O People of Ansaar, examin your kids on the quest of loving Ali, if they responded positively, (then) they are your kids, and if they refused, they are certainly not yours.

Jabir bin Abdullah said: We used to expose our kids to the love of Ali. Whomsoever among them loved him, we knew that he is (a legitimate) son of ours, and whomsoever refuses we disowned him. (Ilal al-Sharaa’ie, vol. 1, p. 171, ch. 120, narration # 7)

3. Iblees testifies to the attributes of Ali (as)

Hz Salman al Farsi (as) narrates, “Once a few munafiqeen (hypocrites) were speaking ill of Ameerul Momineen (as). As they were speaking, Iblees passed by them. When he heard them speaking badly against Ameerul Momineen (as), he stopped to listen. The munafiqeen asked him, “Who are you”? Iblees replied, “I am Ibne Marra”. The people asked him if he was listening to their discussion. Iblees said, “Curses be upon you! You are speaking ill of Ameerul Momineen(as), Ali (as) ibn Abi Talib (as) who is your Moula (master).” The munafiqeen replied, “What proof do you have the he is our Moula (master)”? Iblees replied, “O’ignorants! Are you unaware of the words of your own prophet? Whomsoever I am his Moula Ali (as) is his Moula and He (RasoolAllah saw) then prayed “O’My Lord! Be a friend to those who are friends with Ali (as). Be an enemy to those who are the enemies of Ali (as). Help those who help Ali (as). Leave those who leave Ali (as).” Upon hearing this the munafiqeen asked Iblees, “Are you also a Shia (follower) of Ali (as)”? Iblees replied, “I am not a Shia of Ali (as). However I love Him. But I am a ‘shareek’ (shareholder) in the wealth and offspring of those who hate Him.” Munafiqeen asked Iblees to tell them whatever knowledge he possessed regarding the attributes of Ali (as). Iblees said, “O’group of munafiq! I prayed to Allah more than 12,000 years while I was living amongst the jinns. When Allah destroyed the jinns, I complained to Allah of my loneliness. So Allah took me up into the heavens. I prayed to Allah for 12,000 years more while I was living in the heavens. I prayed to Allah in the gatherings with all of the other angels. Once while we were busy in the worship of Allah, a Noor passed in front of us. Upon seeing this Noor, all of the angels fell into sajdah and read the tasbeeh of saboo quddus. I was so surprised. I asked Allah “O’my Lord! Was this Noor that of a high ranking angel or of some messenger or prophet?” At that time, a voice from Allah came and said, “Neither is it the Noor of a high ranking angel nor that of any messenger or prophet”.This is the Noor of Ali (as) ibn Abi Talib (as). (Amali Sadooq page 284 hadith 6, Ilal Sharie page no. 143 hadith 9, Bihar ul Anwar ref Amali wa Ilal Sharie 39th Edition page 162 hadith 1)

Comment: Now, according to the Shi’ites, who love quote the sunni Hadith that “None loves Ali but a believer, and none hates Ali but a hypocrite”, then for them Iblis must be a Grand Believer.

Conclusion

We leave it up to the readers to decide judge that are the Shias correct in labeling Ahlesunnah in Nasibism? Even when Ahlesunnah preach that loving COMPLETE Ahlelbayt is necessary. And their books are filled with reports and statements regarding the virtues of Ahlelbayt.

However, we would like to thank the Shia scholars for not counting sunnis among the lovers of Ahlebayt, because since according to Shias and their hadeeth if Iblis(satan) stands in the row of lovers of Ahlebayt. Then we Ahlesunnah are more than happy to be excluded from that so called row of lovers of Ahlelbayt were Shias along with Iblis are present.

Article by Ibn Ahmed Alhindi ; courtesy of Gift2shias.com
Link:http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/enemies-and-haters-of-ahlelbayt-according-to-shias/

[TripolySunni]

Some Ahadith about 'Aisha (ra) and the other members of Ahlul-Bayt (ra):

Narrated Abu Maryam `Abdullah bin Ziyad Al−Aasadi: When Talha, AzZubair and `Aisha moved to Basra, `Ali sent `Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin `Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al−Hasan bin `Ali was at the top of the pulpit and `Ammar was below Al−Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard `Ammar saying, “`Aisha has moved to Al−Basra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her.

source: Sahih al-Bukhari.


أتيت عائشة أسألها عن المسح على الخفين : فقالت : عليك بابن أبي طالب فسله . فإنه كان يسافر مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم . فسألناه فقال : جعل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ثلاثة أيام ولياليهن للمسافر . ويوما وليلة للمقيم .

Shurayh bin Hanii said: I came to 'Aisha (ra) asking her about wiping on the Khufayn(socks) so she said: You have to seek 'Ali Ibn abi Talib and ask him for he used to travel a lot with the Prophet SAWS, 'Ali then said: "The Prophet SAWS allowed three days and three nights for the traveler and one day and one night for the resident."

source: Sahih Muslim.


عبد الرزاق عن الاوزاعي عن مكحول عمن سأل عائشة في كم تصلي المرأة من الثياب ؟ فقالت له : سل عليا ثم ارجع إلي فأخبرني بالذي يقول لك ، قال : فأتى عليا فسأله فقال : في الخمار والدرع السابغ ، فرجع إلى عائشة فأخبرها فقالت : صدق.

'Abdul-Razzaq from al-Awza'ee from Makhoul from he who asked 'Aisha (ra) about the clothes that a woman wears in prayer? she said: ask 'Ali then come back and tell me what he answers, so he went and asked him and 'Ali replied: "She can pray in a shift that reaches down and covers the top of her feet." then he returned and told 'Aisha and she said: He speaks truth.

source: Musannaf 'Abdul-Razzaq.


4739 - ( حدثنا ) أبو الحسن محمد بن احمد بن شبويه الرئيس الفقيه بمرو ثنا جعفر بن محمد بن الحارث النيسابوري بمرو ثنا على ابن مهران الرازي ثنا سلمة بن الفضل الابرش ثنا محمد بن اسحاق عن يحيى بن عباد بن عبد الله بن الزبير عن ابيه عن عائشة رضى الله عنها انها كانت إذا ذكرت فاطمة بنت النبي صلى الله عليه وآله قالت ما رأيت احدا كان اصدق لهجة منها الا ان يكون الذى ولدها * هذا حديث صحيح على شرط مسلم ولم يخرجاه.

'Abdullah ibn al-Zubair (ra) from his father (ra) that whenever 'Aisha (ra) mentioned Fatima (ra) the daughter of the prophet SAWS she would say: "I've never seen anyone more truthful than her except her father."

source: Mustadrak al-Hakim 3/160 and he said "Sahih on the condition of the two sheikhs."


ما رأيت أحدا كان أشبه سمتا وهديا ودلا برسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم من فاطمة ، كانت إذا دخلت عليه قام إليها فأخذ بيدها وقبلها وأجلسها في مجلسه ، وكان إذا دخل عليها قامت فأخذت بيده فقبلته وأجلسته في مجلسها

'Aisha (ra) said: "I've never seen anyone whose features and guidance resembled the Prophet SAWS more than Fatima, whenever she would enter on him he would go to her and grab her hand and kiss her and make her sit in his Majlis, whenever he would enter on her she would go to him and take him by the hand and kiss him and and make him sit in her majlis."

sources:
-ibn Muflih said SAHIH in al-Adab al-Shar'iyah 1/437.
-al-Albani said SAHIH in Sahih al-Tirmithy #3872.

[wellwisher]

Part 3: Defence of Ahlelbayt[wives of Prophet/mothers of believers] from the Religious Slanderers (http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/part-3-defence-of-ahlelbaytwives-of-prophetmothers-of-believers-from-the-religious-slanderers/)

[shakibbhat]

ROFL!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWdq32OBnpY
damn! What the hell is that?

[TripolySunni]

'Ali (ra) disobeys the Prophet SAWS again in Shia books:


اقول : وروى ابن بطريق أيضا في المستدرك من كتاب المغازي لمحمد بن إسحاق بإسناده قال : لما خرج رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله إلى غزاة تبوك خلف علي بن أبي طالب عليه السلام على أهله وأمره بالاقامة فيهم ، فأرجف المنافقون ( 3 ) وقالوا ، ما خلفه إلا استثقالا له و تخفيفا منه ، فلما قالوا ذلك أخذ علي بن أبي طالب عليه السلام سلاحه ثم خرج إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وهو نازل بالجرف ، فقال : يا رسول الله زعم المنافقون أنك إنما خلفتني تستثقلني وتخفف مني


I say: Ibn Batreeq narrated also in al-Mustadrak from Kitab al-Maghazee of Muhammad bin Ishaq with its Isnad: When the prophet SAWS left to the Ghazwah of Tabuk he left 'Ali as his Caliph(vicegerent) and ordered him to remain with them but the hypocrites in Madinah said: "He only left him as he'll slow him down and because he takes him lightly" so when 'Ali heard this taunt from the hypocrites, he could not control himself and put on the arms and started moving behind the army at some distance then he reached Rassul-Allah SAWS and told him: O Messenger of Allah, the hypocrites claimed that you only left me behind because you thought I'd slow you down and because you don't take me seriously”. (see Mufti Jafar Husayn “Biography of imam Ali ibn Abu Talib” chapter “Ghazwah of Tabuk” p 293).

[wellwisher]

Part 1: Defence of Ahlelbayt[wives of Prophet/mothers of believers] from the Religious Slanderers (http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/part-1-defence-of-ahlelbaytwives-of-prophetmothers-of-believers-from-the-religious-slanderers/)

Please share your views regarding the article brothers and sisters

[TripolySunni]

Although I don't understand his language, yet I understand his poisonous 'Aqeedah, he's cursing Abu Bakr (ra) and 'Umar (ra) isn't he? the "Jibt wal Taghoot"?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbEeDNk2xUE

[A.Khalil]

Brother TripolySunni, I was wondering if you could give me an accurate account of how Hazrat Hasan (ra) - The Prophet's (pbuh) grandson - died? I've heard some Rawafid try to say that Hazrat Muawiyah (RA) had order him to be posioned and got one of his wives to administer the posion in some meal that Hazrat Hasan (ra) was eating. I'm sure it's nonsense but just would like to see their claim being refuted.

P.S. Yes that Rawafid is cursing Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra). May he be disgraced for cursing such blessed companions!

[ahmad12]

:salam:

Shaykh Adnan traps a Shia in a debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JqZOIUfaqY

:jazak:

[TripolySunni]

Brother TripolySunni, I was wondering if you could give me an accurate account of how Hazrat Hasan (ra) - The Prophet's (pbuh) grandson - died? I've heard some Rawafid try to say that Hazrat Muawiyah (RA) had order him to be posioned and got one of his wives to administer the posion in some meal that Hazrat Hasan (ra) was eating. I'm sure it's nonsense but just would like to see their claim being refuted.

P.S. Yes that Rawafid is cursing Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra). May he be disgraced for cursing such blessed companions!

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته

No it was actually al-Husein (ra) who killed him! ..... but that will remain only an empty accusation unless it is backed by solid evidence, you understand what I'm saying? we cannot accuse anyone of MURDER unless we have a respectable trustworthy narration backed by evidence.

I ask is this Khabar logical? the answer is No, because if al-Hasan (ra) is alive that actually benefits Mu'awiyah (ra), since al-Hassan (ra) offered the caliphate to Mu'awiyah (ra) and al-Hasan is the prophet's SAWS grandson then if he keeps him alive he can boast and say "Look the grandson of Rassul-Allah offered me the Caliphate so no one can say my Khilafah is not legitimate" does it make sense? so killing al-Hasan (ra) after he offered him the position and obeyed him and gave him Baya'ah is an illogical thing and it does Mu'awiyah (ra) more harm than good.

Furthermore Mu'awiyah (ra) became Caliph in 41 Hijri while al-Hassan died I think in 51 Hijri, so if he had the intention of killing him he wouldn't wait 10 years and suddenly decide to do this at random.

Some even say "His wife killed him because Yazid told her that if she does so he will marry her, then after she killed him he never married her" there is no solid proof for this as well, just like the accusation before it, this is illogical, what kind of a stupid woman would leave the beloved son of Rassul-Allah SAWS and go for Yazid? al-Hassan had a much better status, much better reputation, better Akhlaq, he looked better ect... So this accusation doesn't make any sense that the wife of al-Hasan's(ra) companion would kill him.

My opinion: it is obvious who killed him, it is the exact same people who killed his father (ra), basically the Khawarij were a part of 'Ali's (ra) army and supporters, you can call them his Shia if you wish that would be accurate, then after 'Ali (ra) decided to make a peaceful arbitration with Mu'awiyah (ra) and they appointed the two judges, a part of 'Ali's (ra) army who were a bunch of filthy Takfeeris (also responsible for the death of 'Uthman) they refused to make peace with Mu'awiyah (ra) because as opposed to 'Ali (ra) they believed Mu'awiyah (ra) was a Kaffir, so how can you make arbitration with a Kaffir? so they rejected 'Ali (ra) and they assassinated him.

After the death of 'Ali (ra) his son al-Hasan (ra) was given the Caliphate although he hated this position, these same Khawarij joined his army in order to continue the fight against Mu'awiyah (ra) whom they hated with passion, soon though they realised that al-Hasan (ra) was no better than his father, even worse al-Hasan (ra) decided to end the entire Fitnah by making an agreement with Mu'awiyah (ra), he offered him the Khilafah as well. These Khwarij and their likes started calling al-Hasan (ra) names, they thought that he disgraced Islam and he disgraced them by what he did, sooner or later they managed to assassinate him.

[Younes]

As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

TripolySunni, did al-Hasan and Muawiyah (ra) go to war? If so, what was the reason behind the war? Why didn't Muawiayh (ra) let al-Hasan (ra) rule?

[A.Khalil]

Salam

I think the points you've raised seem more reasonable and for more conclusive than what the Rawafiid falsely claim. It's seems that Shia think every one of their 14 infalliables died a horrible death. They don't even have shame of excluding our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as they falsely claim that Aisha (ra) & Hafsa (ra) posioned him! This is no joke, I've seen a extremely nasty sheikh of theirs who I'd admit is pretty much blunt and honest about his horrible beliefs than most of them.

Also, you can tell the people that was supposed to be those who narrated from the Imams (ra) really didn't know them at all, how else can they explain that Hasan (ra) and all of Husayn (ra)'s descendants were all poisoned?! If my grandfather and father died of poisioning and I was living under a tyrannical government I'd assume I was next on the hitlist! Unfortunately these people lack the basic common sense to under such things.

[TripolySunni]

As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

TripolySunni, did al-Hasan and Muawiyah (ra) go to war? If so, what was the reason behind the war? Why didn't Muawiayh (ra) let al-Hasan (ra) rule?


‘Ali (ra) was assassinated and the situation was not yet resolved, Mu’awiyah (ra) and the people of Sham and Misr were still asking for Qasas from the killers of ‘Utman (ra), al-Hasan (ra) inherited the Khilafah in this critical and dangerous period. We know for a fact that the best course of action in such a Fitnah is to reconcile between the Muslims and end the Fitnah completely as Allah had ordered:

Surat al-Hujurat:

And if two factions among the believers should fight, then make settlement between the two. But if one of them oppresses the other, then fight against the one that oppresses until it returns to the ordinance of Allah. And if it returns, then make settlement between them in justice and act justly. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (9) The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy. (10)

So al-Hasan (ra) had to act in accordance with the Quran and he had to make a settlement between the Shia of ‘Uthman (ra) and the Shia of ‘Ali (ra), he had to fulfill the prophecy of Rassul-Allah SAWS who said:


سمعت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم على المنبر ، والحسن إلى جنبه ، ينظر إلى الناس مرة وإليه مرة ، ويقول : ابني هذا سيد ، ولعل الله أن يصلح به بين فئتين من المسلمين عظيمتين

Abu Bakrah bin Nufay’a bin al-Harith narrated: I heard the Prophet SAWS while on his Mimbar and al-Hasan was beside him, He SAWS would look at the people then he would look at al-Hasan, then he said: “This son of mine is a Sayyed, maybe Allah would reconcile through him two great groups of Muslims.”
Source: Sahih al-Bukhari.

Al-Hasan (ra) received his Bay’ah in Ramadhan 40 Hijri, the people have chosen their leader and he was not appointed by his father.


قيل لعلي ألا تستخلف قال ما استخلف رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فأستخلف عليكم وإن يرد الله تبارك وتعالى بالناس خيرا فسيجمعهم على خيرهم كما جمعهم بعد نبيهم على خيرهم

They said to Ali (ra): Will you not appoint a successor? He said: The Prophet PBUH did not appoint a successor so that I may do so, If Allah wishes that something good happens to you then he will make you all gather around the best (Man) amongst you just like he made them gather around the best Man (i.e Abu Bakr) after their prophet PBUH.
Narrator: Shaqeeq.
Source: al-Haythami in Majama'a al Zawa'ed.
Rank: All narrators are that of the SAHIH except Ismail bin Abi al Harith and he is Trustworthy.

So these people went to give al-Hasan (ra) their Baya’ah and this was his reply:


عَنْ رِيَاحِ بْنِ الْحَارِثِ قَالَ : قَامَ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ بَعْدَ وَفَاةِ عَلِي ، فَخَطَبَ النَّاسَ فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ ، ثُمَّ قَالَ : إِنَّ مَا هُوَ آتٍ قَرِيبٌ ، وَإِنَّ أَمْرَ اللهِ وَاقِعٌ وَإِنْ كَرِهَ النَّاسُ ، وَإِنِّي وَاللهِ مَا أُحِبُّ أَنْ إِلَيَّ مِنْ أَمْرِ أُمَّةِ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم مَا يَزِنُ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ مِنْ خَرْدَلٍ يُهْرَاقُ فِيهَا مِحْجَمَةٌ مِنْ دَمٍ مُنْذُ عَلِمْت مَا يَنْفَعُنِي مِمَّا يَضُرُّنِي ، فَالْحَقُوا بِمَطِيِّكُمْ .

Al-Hasan (ra) told the people after the death of ‘Ali (ra): “What is to come is near, the decree of Allah will pass even if the people hate it, by Allah I do not like to rule any part of the nation of Muhammad SAWS if a small drop of blood will be shed since I know what will benefit me and what will harm me, so follow your paths.”
Source: Fadhael al-Sahaba by Ibn Hanbal 2/773 #1364, Musannaf ibn abi Shaybah 15/94 #3851, Hadith SAHIH.

After al-Hasan (ra) prayed on his father then buried him in Kufa, the people started offering him their pledge of allegiance and they insisted on him just like they insisted on his father before him but he quickly placed his own condition on the people of ‘Iraq:


و الله ما إبايعكم إلا على ما أقول لكم: فقالوا: ما هو؟ قال: تسالمون من سالمت و تحاربون من حاربت

Al-Hasan (ra) said: By Allah I will not receive your Baya’ah unless you follow what I say, they said: what is it? He said: to make peace with whom I make peace and to fight whom I fight.
Source: al-tabaqat, researched by Dr. Muhammad al-Sulami 1/286-287.

We can see that from the moment al-Hasan (ra) agreed and received his Baya’ah he began paving the way for a peaceful resolution. It’s also good to mention that al-Hasan (ra) was against the Fitnah since the beginning, he had told his father before:


يا أبت دع هذا فإن فيه سفك دماء المسلمين و وقوع الاختلاف بينهم

“O dear father, leave this matter, it will spill the blood of the Muslims and cause division among them.”
Source: al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah 7/229-230 copied from al-Murtada for al-Nadwi pg198.

So al-Hasan (ra) always opposed fighting his Muslim brothers although he had the power to fight and he had control over Mecca and Madinah and he had a great army, Jubayr bin Nufayr says:


جبير بن نفير قال: قلت للحسن بن علي إن الناس يزعمون أنك تريد الخلافة. فقال: كانت جماجم العرب بيدي يسالمون من سالمت و يحاربون من حاربت، فتركتها ابتغاء وجه الله، ثم أبتزها بأتياس أهل الحجاز؟!
البلاذري في أنساب الأشراف (3/49)، و طبقات ابن سعد، الطبقة الخامسة (ص 258) بسند جيد

I told al-Hasan bin ‘Ali: “The people claim that you are running after the Caliphate.” Al-Hasan said: “The skulls of the ‘Arab were in my hands, they would make peace with whom I make peace and they would fight whom I fight, I left it all to seek the face of Allah.”

Source: al-Baladhuri in Ansab al-Ashraf 3/49, Tabaqat ibn Sa’ad, the fifth Tabaqah pg258 with a good Isnad.

Some people had sensed that al-Hasan (ra) would pursue a peaceful reconciliation so the trouble makers from al-Kufa tried to assassinate him during his prayer, he was stabbed but he survived it.

In the beginning al-Hasan (ra) showed that he was following in his father’s footsteps in this matter; he prepared an army to march to al-Sham, when Mu’awiyah (ra) heard this he also prepared his army and headed to al-‘Iraq, Mu’awiyah (ra) was badly wounded from a previous assassination attempt and as for al-Hasan (ra) there was another attempt on his life from his so called followers.

Then both parties started their negotiations in order to achieve peace and unite the nation as stated by these Ahadith:

Narrated Al-Hasan Al-Basri: By Allah, Al-hasan bin Ali led large battalions like mountains against muawiya. Amr bin Al-As said (to muawiya), "I surely see battalions which will not turn back before killing their opponents." muawiya who was really the best of the two men said to him, "O 'Amr! If these killed those and those killed these, who would be left for the jobs of the public, who would be left for their women, who would be left for their children?" Then muawiya sent two Quraishi men from the tribe of 'Abd-i-Shams called 'Abdur Rahman bin Sumura and Abdullah bin 'Amir bin Kuraiz to Al-hasan saying to them, "Go to this man (i.e. Al-hasan) and negotiate peace with him and talk and appeal to him." So, they went to Al-hasan and talked and appealed to him to accept peace. Al-hasan said, "We, the offspring of 'Abdul Muttalib, have got wealth and people have indulged in killing and corruption (and money only will appease them)." They said to Al-hasan, "muawiya offers you so and so, and appeals to you and entreats you to accept peace." Al-hasan said to them, "But who will be responsible for what you have said?" They said, "We will be responsible for it." So, what-ever Al-hasan asked of them they said, "We will be responsible for it." So, Al-hasan concluded a peace treaty with muawiya.
Source: Sahih al-Bukhari.

And this Hadith:

Narrated Al-Hasan Al-Basri: When Al-hasan bin 'Ali moved with army units against muawiya, 'Amr bin AL-As said to muawiya, "I see an army that will not retreat unless and until the opposing army retreats." muawiya said, "(If the Muslims are killed) who will look after their children?" 'Amr bin Al-As said: I (will look after them). On that, 'Abdullah bin 'Amir and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Samura said, "Let us meet Muawaiya and suggest peace."
Source: Sahih al-Bukhari.


جعل علي على مقدمة أهل العراق قيس بن سعد بن عبادة وكانوا أربعين ألفا بايعوه على الموت فقتل علي فبايعوا الحسن بن علي بالخلافة وكان لا يحب القتال ولكن كان يريد أن يشترط على معاوية لنفسه فعرف ان قيس بن سعد لا يطاوعه على الصلح فنزعه وأمر عبد الله بن عباس فاشترط لنفسه كما اشترط الحسن.[فتح الباري ج13/ص67-68] وقال الحافظ ابن حجر العسقلاني :أخرجه الطبري بسند صحيح.

‘Ali bin abi Talib appointed Qays ibn Sa’ad bin ‘Ubadah on the front to lead the army of ‘Iraq and they were forty thousand who gave him a pledge that they would obey until death, then ‘Ali died so they gave a Baya’ah to al-Hasan bin ‘Ali and he did not like fighting but he wanted to make a condition on Mu’awiyah for himself, he knew that Qays wouldn’t accept this reconciliation so he removed him and appointed ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas who also stated the same condition for himself as al-Hasan.
Source: Fath al-Bari 13/67-68 Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani said: In al-Tabari with a Sahih chain.


أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ بنُ بَكْرٍ[ثقة]، حَدَّثَنَا حَاتِمُ بنُ أَبِي صَغِيْرَةَ[ثقة]، عَنْ عَمْرِو بنِ دِيْنَارٍ[ثقة]:أَنَّ مُعَاوِيَةَ كَانَ يَعلَمُ أَنَّ الحَسَنَ أَكْرَهُ النَّاسِ لِلْفِتْنَةِ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ عَلِيٌّ بَعثَ إِلَى الحَسَنِ، فَأَصْلَحَ مَا بَينَهُ وَبَينَهُ سِرّاً، وَأَعْطَاهُ مُعَاوِيَةُ عَهداً إِنْ حَدَثَ بِهِ حَدَثٌ وَالحَسَنُ حَيٌّ لَيُسَمِّيَنَّهُ، وَلَيَجْعَلَنَّ الأَمْرَ إِلَيْهِ.فلما توثق من الحسن،قَالَ ابْنُ جَعْفَرٍ: وَاللهِ إِنِّيْ لَجَالِسٌ عِنْدَ الحَسَنِ، إِذْ أَخذْتُ لأَقُوْمَ، فَجَذَبَ بِثَوْبِي، وَقَالَ: اقعد يَا هنَاهُ اجلِسْ!
فَجلَسْتُ، فَقَالَ: إِنِّيْ قَدْ رَأَيْتُ رَأْياً، وَإِنِّي أُحبُّ أَنْ تُتَابِعَنِي عَلَيْهِ!
قُلْتُ: مَا هُوَ؟
قَالَ: قَدْ رَأَيْتُ أَنْ أَعمَدَ إِلَى المَدِيْنَةِ، فَأَنْزِلَهَا، وَأُخَلِّيَ بَيْنَ مُعَاوِيَةَ وَبَيْنَ هَذَا الحَدِيْثِ، فَقَدْ طَالتِ الفِتْنَةُ، وَسقطت فيها الدِّمَاءُ، وَقُطعَتِ فيها الأَرْحَامُ وَ قطعت السُّبُلُ، وَعُطِّلَتِ الفُرُوْجُ-يعني الثغور-،قَالَ ابْنُ جَعْفَرٍ: جَزَاكَ اللهُ خَيراً عَنْ أُمَّةِ مُحَمَّدٍ، فَأَنَا مَعَكَ على هذا الحديث.
فَقَالَ الحسن: ادْعُ لِي الحُسَيْنَ،فبعث الى حسين فأتاه، فَقَالَ: أَيْ أَخِي!اني قَدْ رَأَيْتُ رأيا واني أحب أن تتابعني عليه .قال:ما هو؟قال:فقص عليه الذي قال لابن جعفر،قَالَ الحسين: أُعِيذُكَ بِاللهِ أَنْ تُكذِّبَ عَلِيّاً في قبره، وَتُصَدِّقَ مُعَاوِيَةَ.
فَقَالَ الحَسَنُ: وَاللهِ مَا أَردْتُ أَمراً قَطُّ إِلاَّ خَالَفْتَنِي الى غيره، وَاللهِ لَقَدْ هَمَمْتُ أَنْ أَقذِفَكَ فِي بَيْتٍ، فَأُطَيِّنَهُ عَلَيْكَ، حَتَّى أَقْضِيَ أَمْرِي.
فَلَمَّا رَأَى الحُسَيْنُ غَضَبَهُ، قَالَ: أَنْتَ أَكْبَرُ وَلَدِ عَلِيٍّ، وَأَنْتَ خَلِيفَتُهُ، وَأَمْرُنَا لأَمْرِكَ تَبَعٌ،فافعل ما بدا لك.
فَقَامَ الحَسَنُ، فَقَالَ: أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ! إِنِّيْ كُنْتُ أَكْرَهُ النَّاسِ لأَوِّلِ هَذَا الحديث، وَأَنَا أَصلَحْتُ آخِرَهُ لذي حق أديت اليه حقه أحق به مني،أو حق جدت به لصلاح أمة محمد،إِنَّ اللهَ قَدْ وَلاَّكَ يَا مُعَاوِيَةُ هَذَا الحَدِيْثَ لِخيرٍ يَعْلَمُهُ عِنْدَكَ، أَوْ لِشَرٍّ يَعْلَمُهُ فِيكَ: {وَإِنْ أَدْرِي لَعَلَّهُ فِتْنَةٌ لَكُمْ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَى حِيْنٍ} [الأَنْبِيَاءُ: 111].ثُمَّ نَزَلَ.
طبقات ابن سعد[ج 6ص384-385] واسناده صحيح وعنه الذهبي في سير أعلام النبلاء (ج3 ص264-265) والمزي في تهذيب الكمال [ج6ص247] والطبراني في الكبير(ج 3ص26) و"أنساب الأشراف للبلاذري ج 1ص386" وتاريخ دمشق ج13 ص275.

‘Amro bin Deenar said: Mu’awiyah used to know that al-Hasan hated this Fitnah the most, so when ‘Ali died he sent a letter to al-Hasan and they reconciled and he made peace with him secretly, Mu’awiyah made an oath to al-Hasan that if anything should happen to him while al-Hasan is alive he would be the one to succeed him, they agreed on this. Ibn Ja’afar said: By Allah I was with al-Hasan once and I decided to go but he grabbed my clothes and told me:
“Sit down for a short time, I have reached an opinion and I would love it if you were to follow me in this.”
I said: “What is it?” He said: “I decided to return to al-Madinah and leave this to Mu’awiyah because this Fitnah has to end and it has taken long enough, much blood has been spilled, relations were cut and Jihad was stopped.” Ibn Ja’afar said: “Jazak-Allah Khayr! You have done the nation of Muhammad SAWS good and I will follow you in this.”

Al-Hasan said: “call my brother Husein for me.” So he came and he said to him: “My brother, I have seen an opinion and I would love for you to follow me in this.” And he repeated what he told Ibn Ja’afar but al-Husein said: “I seek refuge in Allah for you! You belie ‘Ali in his grave and believe Mu’awiyah!?”
Al-Hasan said: “By Allah I never wanted something unless you opposed me in it! I feel like leaving you in a house until I am done with this matter!” When al-Husein saw his brother’s anger he said: “You are the oldest of ‘Ali’s children, you are his successor, our affair is in your hands and we shall follow you, so do what seems right to you.”
Al-Hasan then announced it to the people and said: O people! I hated this matter since the beginning but I have fixed it and I do this for the nation of Muhammad, O Mu’awiyah! Allah has given you Wilayah(government) of this matter for the goodness he sees in you or for an evil he knows within you, (And I know not; perhaps it is a trial for you and enjoyment for a time.) [21:111].

Source: Tabaqat Ibn Sa’ad 6/384-385 with a Sahih chain.

And this Hadith:


عن أنس بن سيرين قال: قال الحسن بن علي يوم كلم معاوية ما بين جابرس وجابلق : رجل جده نبي غيري وإني رأيت أن أصلح بين أمة محمد صلى الله عليه و سلم وكنت أحقهم بذاك ألا إنا قد بايعنا معاوية ولا أدري لعله فتنة لكم ومتاع إلى حين

From Anas bin Sireen: al-Hasan bin ‘Ali said on the day he spoke to Mu’awiyah between Jabirs and Jabulq: I am the one whose grandfather is a Prophet and I made up my mind to unify the nation of Muhammad SAWS and I am the most worthy of doing this, we had given Mu’awiyah a pledge of allegiance and I do not know perhaps it is a trial for you and enjoyment for a time.

Source: Fadael al-Sahaba for Ahmad ibn Hanbal 2/769, Hadith Sahih.

In another Hadith:


-عن ابن سيرين أن الحسن بن علي رضي الله عنه قال : لو نظرتم ما بين جابرس إلى جابلق ما وجدتم رجلا جده نبي غيري وأخي وإني أرى أن تجتمعوا على معاوية { وإن أدري لعله فتنة لكم ومتاع إلى حين } .

Ibn Sireen: al-Hasan bin ‘Ali said: If you look between Jabirs and Jabulq you will never find one whose grandfather is a prophet except me and my brother, and I see that you must all be united around Mu’awiyah (I do not know perhaps it is a trial for you and enjoyment for a time).
Source: Musannaf ‘Abdul-Razzaq 11/452.


عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ أَبِي ثَابِتٍ ، قَالَ : أَتَيْتُ أَبَا وَائِلٍ فقال لي:اسْتَخْلَفَ النَّاسُ الْحَسَنَ بْنَ عَلِيٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا ، فَبَعَثَ الْحَسَنُ بِالْبَيْعَةِ إِلَى مُعَاوِيَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ، وَكَتَبَ بِذَلِكَ الْحَسَنُ إِلَى قَيْسِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا ، فَقَامَ قَيْسُ بْنُ سَعْدٍ فِي أَصْحَابِهِ ، فَقَالَ : يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ ، أَتَاكُمْ أَمْرَانِ ، لاَبُدَّ لَكُمْ مِنْ أَحَدِهِمَا : دُخُولٌ فِي فِتْنَةٍ ، أَوْ قَتْلٌ مَعَ غَيْرِ إِمَامٍ ، فَقَالَ النَّاسُ : مَا هَذَا ؟ فَقَالَ : الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ قَدْ أَعْطَى الْبَيْعَةَ مُعَاوِيَةَ ، فَرَجَعَ النَّاسُ ، فَبَايَعُوا مُعَاوِيَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لِمُعَاوِيَةَ هَمٌّ إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ بِالنَّهْرَوَانِ ، فَجَعَلُوا يَتَسَاقَطُونَ عَلَيْهِ فَيُبَايِعُونَهُ ، حَتَّى بَقِيَ مِنْهُمْ ثَلاَثُمِائَةٍ وَنَيِّفٍ ، وَهُمْ أَصْحَابُ النَّخِيلَةِ .المطالب العالية بزوائد المسانيد الثمانية للحافظ احمد بن علي بن حجر العسقلاني[52/5]،قال ابن حجر العسقلاني: هَذَا الْإِسْنَادُ صَحِيحٌ،وقال البوصيري:رواه إسحاق بن راهويه بسند صحيح[اتحاف الخيرة المهرة بزوائد المسانيد العشرة 17/8].

Habib bin abi Thabit said: I came to Abu Wael who told me: the people gave the pledge to al-Hasan bin ‘Ali may Allah be pleased with them, then al-Hasan sent his Baya’ah to Mu’awiyah may Allah be pleased with him, al-Hasan then wrote to Qays bin Sa’ad may Allah be pleased with them who then stood between his companions and said: “O people! You are given one of two choices, entering a Fitnah or death without an Imam.” The people said: “What is that?” He replied: “al-Hasan bin ‘Ali has given his allegiance to Mu’awiyah.” Then the people returned and gave the Baya’ah to Mu’awiyah may Allah be pleased with him and he was deeply concerned about the people of Nahrawan, many of those came to him to offer him the pledge and only about three hundred remained, they were the people of Nakhilah.

Source: al-Matalib al-‘Aliyah bi Zawaed al-Masaneed al-Thamaniyah 5/52 and Ibn Hajar said SAHIH, al-Bousayri said in Ithaf al-Kheerah al-Maharah bi Zawaed al-Masaneed al-‘Asharah 8/17 “narrated by Ishaq bin Rahaweih with a Sahih chain.”

And there are several other narrations but I will stop here as this point has been clarified and I will move on to another point.

Another attempt at al-Hasan’s (ra) life by his so called followers from ‘Iraq, this happened after he reconciled with Mu’awiyah (ra):


فنزل دون جسرها مما يلي ناحية الكوفة ، فخطب الناس فقال: إني أرجو أن أكون أنصح خلف لخلقه، وما أنا محتمل على أحد ضغينة ولا حقداً ولا مريدٌ به غائلة ولا سوءاً . ألا وإن ما تكرهون في الجماعة خير لكم مما تحبون في الفرقة ، ألا وإني ناظر لكم خيراً من نظركم لأنفسكم ، فلا تخالفوا أمري ، ولا تردوا عليَّ ، غفر الله لي ولكم . فنظر بعض الناس إلى بعض وقالوا: عزم والله على صلح معاوية وضعف وخار ، وشدوا على فسطاطه فدخلوه وانتزعوا مصلاهُ من تحته وانتهبوا ثيابه ! ثم شد عليه عبد الرحمن بن عبد الله بن أبي جعال الأزدي ، فنزع مطرفه عن عاتقه فبقى متقلداً سيفه(فدهش ثم رجع ذهنه) فركب فرسه وأطاف به الناس فبعضهم يعجِّزه ويضعِّفه ، وبعضهم ينحِّي أولئك عنه ويمنعهم منه !
وانطلق رجل من بني أسد بن خزيمة من بني نصر بن الهون بن الحارث بن ثعلبة بن دودان بن أسد ، ويقال له الجرَّاح بن سنان وكان يرى رأي الخوارج ، إلى مظلم ساباط فقعد فيه ينتظره ، فلما مرَّ الحسن به دنا من دابته فأخذ بلجامها ، ثم أخرج مغولاً كان معه وقال: أشركت يا حسن كما أشرك أبوك من قبل ! وطعنه بالمِغْوَل في أصل فخذه فشق في فخذه شقاً كاد يصل إلى العظم ، وضرب الحسن وجهه ثم اعتنقا وخرَّا إلى الأرض ووثب عبد كلام بن الحمل الطائي وبعضهم يقول عبد الله بن الحصل فنزع المغول من يد الجراح ، وأخذ ظبيان بن عمارة التميمي بأنفه فقطعه، وضرب بيده إلى قطعة آجرة فشدخ بها وجهه ورأسه حتى مات

Al-Hasan (ra) told the people in his sermon: “I wish that I could be the best of Allah’s creations at giving advice to his creations, I bear no hatred or malice towards anyone and I wish no one any harm. What you people hate about the Jama’ah(Unity) is actually much better than what you love about Firqah(division). I see what is best for you better than what you see is best for yourselves so do not disobey me and do not reject my sayings, may Allah forgive us all.”
The people looked at each other and said: “By Allah he has made up his mind to make peace with Mu’awiyah, he has become weak and feeble!” So they all jumped at him and stole his belongings and then ‘Abdul-Rahman bin ‘Abdullah bin abi Ja’al al-Azdi tore away his robe, he managed to keep his sword and he mounted his horse but they surrounded him, some were trying to pull him down and some were trying to protect him by pushing them away. Al-Jarrah bin Sinan who was a man who saw the opinion of the Khawarij took out a sickle and laid in ambush for al-Hasan so when he passed by him the man said: “You have committed Shirk(Polytheism) O Hasan just your father before you committed shirk!” He stabbed him with the sickle in his thigh and it almost penetrated the bone, al-Hasan hit him on the face and grabbed him so they both fell down, ‘Abd-Kalam bin al-Hamal al-Taee jumped on the man and took away his sickle and Thabiyan bin ‘Imarah al-Tamimi grabbed the man’s nose and cut it then killed him, al-Hasan was then carried to al-Madaen…”

Source: Ansab al-Ashraf by al-Baladhuri (manuscript) copied from Marwiyat Khilafat Mu’awiyah pg142.

And now I am tired, maybe if Allah wills it we'll continue later maybe I won't.

[sonsofsunnah]

Although I don't understand his language, yet I understand his poisonous 'Aqeedah, he's cursing Abu Bakr (ra) and 'Umar (ra) isn't he? the "Jibt wal Taghoot"?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbEeDNk2xUE

already translated into English, alhamdulillah:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMia714ohrk

[sonsofsunnah]

Some Shias with some brains seem to fed up with Rafidiwood:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKLUFGsB6Yo

[sonsofsunnah]

Some Ahadith about 'Aisha (ra) and the other members of Ahlul-Bayt (ra):

Narrated Abu Maryam `Abdullah bin Ziyad Al−Aasadi: When Talha, AzZubair and `Aisha moved to Basra, `Ali sent `Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin `Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al−Hasan bin `Ali was at the top of the pulpit and `Ammar was below Al−Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard `Ammar saying, “`Aisha has moved to Al−Basra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her.


salam alaikum akhi,

Can you give us the Sharh of this Hadith, especially the last part? There is a Muhadhara of this Shaytan Yasser Al-Habib, where he mentioned the Hadith above (though omitting the part that says Aaisha will be in Janna!!!) and say: Look, look! THIS is the reason why Allah married the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) to a Kafira like her [wal-3iyadhubillah!!!), and this is the reason why he did not divorced her in his lifetime (Rafidah believe that either Ali or Al-Hussein divorced her AFTER the demise of Rasulullah!!!). He goes on saying:

He had to marry her (he cites that Allah choses for every Prophet a close enemy!!!) and not to divorce her, for if he had divorce her then she would have lost her status as the wife of the Prophet and hence people could not be tested by her very existance and Fitnah. So by her being still the wife of the Messenger of Allah, people were tested by Allah i.e. : 'But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her.'

This is mentioned in 'Bakri' sources and Ammar himselfs says that people were tested i.e. whom would they follow ALLAH or Aisha! This is the simple answer to 'Wahhabis' when they ask why did the Messenger marry her and did not divorce her. For her never being the wife of the Messenger or being divorced would have never been able to launch an army and engage as a main figure in the Army so it was the Hikma of Allah to marry the Messenger with an Evil person so he can eventually test people if they would follow ALLAH O R Aisha!

___

this is what the shaitan basically says. Now what is the sharh and how to refute this? If Aaisha رضي الله عنها was there to reconcile only, then why did Ammar say: 'But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her.'???

[TripolySunni]

salam alaikum akhi,

Can you give us the Sharh of this Hadith, especially the last part? There is a Muhadhara of this Shaytan Yasser Al-Habib, where he mentioned the Hadith above (though omitting the part that says Aaisha will be in Janna!!!) and say: Look, look! THIS is the reason why Allah married the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) to a Kafira like her [wal-3iyadhubillah!!!), and this is the reason why he did not divorced her in his lifetime (Rafidah believe that either Ali or Al-Hussein divorced her AFTER the demise of Rasulullah!!!). He goes on saying:

He had to marry her (he cites that Allah choses for every Prophet a close enemy!!!) and not to divorce her, for if he had divorce her then she would have lost her status as the wife of the Prophet and hence people could not be tested by her very existance and Fitnah. So by her being still the wife of the Messenger of Allah, people were tested by Allah i.e. : 'But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her.'

This is mentioned in 'Bakri' sources and Ammar himselfs says that people were tested i.e. whom would they follow ALLAH or Aisha! This is the simple answer to 'Wahhabis' when they ask why did the Messenger marry her and did not divorce her. For her never being the wife of the Messenger or being divorced would have never been able to launch an army and engage as a main figure in the Army so it was the Hikma of Allah to marry the Messenger with an Evil person so he can eventually test people if they would follow ALLAH O R Aisha!

___

this is what the shaitan basically says. Now what is the sharh and how to refute this? If Aaisha رضي الله عنها was there to reconcile only, then why did Ammar say: 'But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her.'???

'Ali (ra) did not approve of what Talha (ra) and al-Zubair (ra) were doing so he sent his companions to try to get the people of Kufah to side with him, it was a really hard task and 'Ali sent several men but they all failed so finally he decided to send those two mentioned above and they succeeded in convincing the people of kufah to be by his side and not join 'Aisha's (as) group, So the words in the Hadith are what 'Ammar ibn Yasir told the Kufans, the situation was tricky since most Muslims wouldn't even dare disobey the mother of believers who had a lot of respect and value, 'Ammar (ra) began by praising 'Aisha (ra) and repeated the Prophetic narrations about her being in heaven ect... BUT 'Ammar also believed that the matter of Qasas was the responsibility of the official Caliph ('Ali) and he believed that the other army was wrong in waging their own war against the killers of 'Uthman (ra), since no one is infallible 'Ammar told the Muslims of Kufa that even though we love and respect 'Aisha yet she is wrong, so fight your emotions and be on the truthful side and do not follow the other army in what they do, this is a test from Allah whether you obey his command or you obey the mother of believers.

quite simple isn't it? as for yasser al-habib I really never pay much attention to his likes, he's a loser actually (probably a Mossad or CIA agent).

[sonsofsunnah]

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته

No it was actually al-Husein (ra) who killed him! ..... but that will remain only an empty accusation unless it is backed by solid evidence, you understand what I'm saying? we cannot accuse anyone of MURDER unless we have a respectable trustworthy narration backed by evidence.

I ask is this Khabar logical? the answer is No, because if al-Hasan (ra) is alive that actually benefits Mu'awiyah (ra), since al-Hassan (ra) offered the caliphate to Mu'awiyah (ra) and al-Hasan is the prophet's SAWS grandson then if he keeps him alive he can boast and say "Look the grandson of Rassul-Allah offered me the Caliphate so no one can say my Khilafah is not legitimate" does it make sense? so killing al-Hasan (ra) after he offered him the position and obeyed him and gave him Baya'ah is an illogical thing and it does Mu'awiyah (ra) more harm than good.

Furthermore Mu'awiyah (ra) became Caliph in 41 Hijri while al-Hassan died I think in 51 Hijri, so if he had the intention of killing him he wouldn't wait 10 years and suddenly decide to do this at random.

Some even say "His wife killed him because Yazid told her that if she does so he will marry her, then after she killed him he never married her" there is no solid proof for this as well, just like the accusation before it, this is illogical, what kind of a stupid woman would leave the beloved son of Rassul-Allah SAWS and go for Yazid? al-Hassan had a much better status, much better reputation, better Akhlaq, he looked better ect... So this accusation doesn't make any sense that the wife of al-Hasan's(ra) companion would kill him.

My opinion: it is obvious who killed him, it is the exact same people who killed his father (ra), basically the Khawarij were a part of 'Ali's (ra) army and supporters, you can call them his Shia if you wish that would be accurate, then after 'Ali (ra) decided to make a peaceful arbitration with Mu'awiyah (ra) and they appointed the two judges, a part of 'Ali's (ra) army who were a bunch of filthy Takfeeris (also responsible for the death of 'Uthman) they refused to make peace with Mu'awiyah (ra) because as opposed to 'Ali (ra) they believed Mu'awiyah (ra) was a Kaffir, so how can you make arbitration with a Kaffir? so they rejected 'Ali (ra) and they assassinated him.

After the death of 'Ali (ra) his son al-Hasan (ra) was given the Caliphate although he hated this position, these same Khawarij joined his army in order to continue the fight against Mu'awiyah (ra) whom they hated with passion, soon though they realised that al-Hasan (ra) was no better than his father, even worse al-Hasan (ra) decided to end the entire Fitnah by making an agreement with Mu'awiyah (ra), he offered him the Khilafah as well. These Khwarij and their likes started calling al-Hasan (ra) names, they thought that he disgraced Islam and he disgraced them by what he did, sooner or later they managed to assassinate him.


yet look at this Falastini, Adnan Ibrahim, the new shining star of some Sufis and Habashi Sufis:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-D0s9tykWA

Rafidah LOVE him! this is his channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/shaikhAdnanIbrahim

He rejects 3ala al sahaba, curses Mu3awiyah and many other Sahaba who fought Ali radhiyallahu 'anhum ajma'een.

[sonsofsunnah]

but what was the army of Aaisha radhiyallahu 'anha doing? If she wanted to reconcile, then she would have been of no threat to Ali and his Shia (Ammar) etc.

Maybe I missed something.

[TripolySunni]

LOOOL ^

Who the heck is that? honestly where do you get these guys, I've never heard of him. I think Yasser al-Habib has more credibility than this unknown fame seeker.

[TripolySunni]

but what was the army of Aaisha radhiyallahu 'anha doing? If she wanted to reconcile, then she would have been of no threat to Ali and his Shia (Ammar) etc.

Maybe I missed something.

Actually you didn't miss something, you missed everything ;)

Read the posts from this page onwards:
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=14588&st=60

[sonsofsunnah]

Malaysian gov. and Malaysian Muslims be aware!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QaN0YLhvl0

[TripolySunni]

السلام عليكم

Lectures about some of the Imams of Ahlul-Sunnah who are also from Alul-Bayt by Sheikh Muhammad Musa al-Shareef (who is also a pilot in the saudi airlines):
CLICK HERE (http://www.islamic-forum.net/uploads/post-5632-0-09721800-1320269199_thumb.jpg)

1- 'Ali ibn al-Husein Zain al-'Abideen (rah).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nMeEy-LqBts

2- Muhammad ibn 'Ali al-Baqir (rah).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eh0ETUS31PE

3- 'Ali ibn Musa al-Reda (rah).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lmlcNAjIRn8

More biographies can be found in the user's youtube channel.

Salam

[TripolySunni]

al-Salamu 'Aleykum,

A small list of narrations about 'Ali ibn abi Talib may Allah be pleased with him, that negate his infallibility.

The purpose:
1- to show that even if 'Ali (ra) is a great companion he still makes mistakes.
2- to refute the Shia who argue that Fatima (ra) was angry at Abu Bakr (ra) and use it as Takfeer.

============================================

1- Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
'Ali demanded the hand of the daughter of Abu Jahl. Fatima heard of this and went to Allah's Apostle saying, "Your people think that you do not become angry for the sake of your daughters as 'Ali is now going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. "On that Allah's Apostle got up and after his recitation of Tashah-hud. I heard him saying, "Then after! I married one of my daughters to Abu Al-'As bin Al-Rabi' (the husband of Zainab, the daughter of the Prophet ) before Islam and he proved truthful in whatever he said to me. No doubt, Fatima is a part of me, I hate to see her being troubled. By Allah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle and the daughter of Allah's Enemy cannot be the wives of one man." So 'Ali gave up that engagement.
'Al-Miswar further said: I heard the Prophet talking and he mentioned a son-in-law of his belonging to the tribe of Bani 'Abd-Shams. He highly praised him concerning that relationship and said (whenever) he spoke to me, he spoke the truth, and whenever he promised me, he fulfilled his promise."

Reference: Sahih al Al Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 76.

2- Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib:
One night Allah's Apostle came to me and Fatima, the daughter of the Prophet and asked, "Won't you pray (at night)?" I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Our souls are in the hands of Allah and if He wants us to get up He will make us get up." When I said that, he left us without saying anything and I heard that he was hitting his thigh and saying, "But man is more quarrelsome than anything."

(Bukhari Volume 2, Book 21, Number 227)

3- Narrated 'Ali: The Prophet gave me a silken dress as a gift, I wore it and went outside then I saw the signs of anger on his face so I cut it into pieces and distributed it among my women."

(Bukhari - Book #47, Hadith #784)
Narrator: 'Ali - source: Bukhari/Muslim/Ahmad - Grading: Sahih.

4- Narrated Sahl bin Sa'ad: Allah's Apostle went to Fatima's house but did not find 'Ali there. So he asked, "Where is your cousin?" She replied, "There was something between us and he got angry with me and went out. He did not sleep (mid-day nap) in the house." Allah's Apostle asked a person to look for him. That person came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He (Ali) is sleeping in the mosque." Allah's Apostle went there and 'Ali was lying. His upper body cover had fallen down to one side of his body and he was covered with dust. Allah's Apostle started cleaning the dust from him saying: "Get up! O Aba Turab. Get up! O Aba Turab (literally means: O father of dust).

Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 432.

5-



143597 - أمرني النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أن آتيه بطبق يكتب فيه ما لا تضل أمته من بعده قال : فخشيت أن تفوتني نفسه قال : قلت إني أحفظ وأعي قال : أوصي بالصلاة والزكاة وما ملكت أيمانكم الراوي: علي بن أبي طالب المحدث: أحمد شاكر - المصدر: مسند أحمد - الصفحة أو الرقم: 2/84
خلاصة الدرجة: إسناده حسن


Narrated 'Ali (ra): The Prophet SAWS ordered me to bring him a tablet so that he could write on it what his nation will never stray after, but I feared that while I go fetch it he could pass away, so I told him: "I will memorise and understand." He SAWS said: "My will is the Salat, the Zakat and that which your right hand posses."

Reference: Musnal Ahmad 2/84 - Graded "Hasan" by Ahmad Shakir.

6-



جاءت بنت هبيرة إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وفي يدها فتخ [ من ذهب ] [ أي خواتيم كبار ] ، فجعل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يضرب يدها [ بعصية معه يقول لها : أيسرك أن يجعل الله في يدك خواتيم من نار ؟ ! ] ، فأتت فاطمة تشكو إليها ، قال ثوبان : فدخل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم على فاطمة وأنا معه ؛ وقد أخذت من عنقها سلسلة من ذهب ، فقالت : هذا أهدى لي أبو حسن ( تعني زوجها عليا رضي الله عنه ) _ وفي يدها السلسلة _ فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : يا فاطمة ! أيسرك أن يقول الناس : فاطمة بنت محمد في يدها سلسلة من نار ؟ ! [ ثم عذمها عذما شديدا ] فخرج ولم يقعد فعمدت فاطمة إلى السلسلة فباعتها فاشترت بها نسمة ، فأعتقتها ، فبلغ ذلك النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، فقال : الحمد لله الذي نجى فاطمة من النار

Thawban (ra) the servant of the Prophet SAWS narrated: Bint Hubayr came to the Prophet SAWS and in her hands she wore big golden rings, so he hit her hand with a stick he had and said: "Would you be happy if Allah made in your hands rings of fire?" So she went to Fatima to complain to her, then the prophet SAWS entered on them while I was present and she was wearing a golden necklace, she said: "This was a gift from abu al-Hassan ('Ali)" while holding it in her hand. The Prophet SAWS said: "O Fatima, would you be happy if people said: Fatima the daughter of Muhammad is holding a necklace of fire?" Then he gave her a harsh lecture and left (the house) and did not sit down. Fatima would sell the necklace and free a slave, when it reached the Prophet SAWS he said: "Praise be to Allah who saved Fatima from the fire."

sources:
-al-Mustadrak 3/178 al-Hakim said: "Sahih on the condition of the two sheikhs".
- Adab al-Zifaf page 158 by al-Albani and he said: "Sahih Mawsoul".


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