Natural flavors in the food: are they halal?

[verdana]

:salam:

Probably this topic already discussed but I can't find any satisfactory answer.

Natural flavors can contain some amount of alcohol.. Today pretty much most of baked food products have natural flavors.

It is easy to verify if the food contains any animal by-products, however, for alcohol it is not such an easy job. Two days ago I called this company (http://www.naturevalley.com/Products.aspx#aCrunchyBar) to see if they have any alcohol inside their products saying that I am allergic to alcohol. After some research they called me few hours ago and told me that all of their products have traces of alcohol that are caused by break-down of barley.. as for the animal ingredients there is none.

So this "traces of alcohol" raised my concerns.

My question is, is it halal to consume foods that have natural flavor ingredients or some traces of alcohol?

Also, isn't vinegar obtained from wine and in the end have some content of alcohol? But it is halal.

:jazak:

[woeuntothee]

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1448

'khamr' is alcohol derived from dates or grapes.

[verdana]

:jazak:

The problem is you don't know whether it is synthetic alcohol or not.

[insufficient]

I read somewhere that even pure grape juice etc. contains trace amounts of alcohol.. will search for the source :insh:

[alfatiha]

:ws: When they say breaking down barley is it due to fermentation and not directly added? e.g. they don't pour beer, wine, etc, but ferment the barley with yeasts that generate alcohol.
When you make bread, the yeast also generate alcohol due to fermentation.

[verdana]

:ws: When they say breaking down barley is it due to fermentation and not directly added? e.g. they don't pour beer, wine, etc, but ferment the barley with yeasts that generate alcohol.

That's what they said: no external addition is done and that they can't prevent barley from producing that alcohol.

[alfatiha]

That's what they said: no external addition is done and that they can't prevent barley from producing that alcohol.

That might have different rulings than if wine is directly added. I don't know the rulings, but it might have been the same with the bread, perhaps? unless their intention is to make alcohol from the barley?

[verdana]

unless their intention is to make alcohol from the barley?

How their intention would make the ruling different considering the fact that their food does not intoxicate?

[alfatiha]

How their intention would make the ruling different considering the fact that their food does not intoxicate?

:ws: from Shafi'i point of view, it depends what substance that it started from, if I'm not mistaken. Making vinegar from halal raw, solid materials is ok even though in the middle of the production/fermentation, alcohol is generated (which is in the case of ALL vinegar). If the production is to make wine/beer and vinegar from that wine/beer as a side product, then the intention is different. That vinegar making is started from something haram instead of halal materials. Hanafi point of view is perhaps different.

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum

One request before giving my response about mentioning the name of country such as USA or UK, it will be helpful to others too because I can say only about USA. First of all the food company's consumer department employed non technical people and they provided some general information such as ingredients statement, source of ingredients and some other things. Sometimes if they do not find the answers on their computer screen, they try to put their own two cents. The good example is " all of their products have traces of alcohol that are caused by break-down of barley.. as for the animal ingredients there is none". The animal ingredient part is ok but the rest is his or her own two cents and lack of technical training and technical background. So do not pay attention to breakdown of barley.

In USA/Canada, FDA of both countries has Code of Federal Regulations about the definition of both natural and artificial flavors and other regulations.

Natural or Artificial flavor has two components, one is flavoring component and other is non flavoring component or solvent or carrier. No flavor company reveals composition of flavoring component because it is a trade secret and not mentioned in flavor specification. But they reveal the name of non flavoring component or solvent or carrier in flavor specification which could be alcohol(Haram solvent) or Propylene Glycol(Halal solvent), vegetable oil, water, maltodextrin in dry flavors etc. This non flavoring component is called Processing Aid Ingredient or Hidden Ingredient of a flavor and FDA do not require it to be mentioned under ingredients statement. Writing Natural or Artificial flavor in the ingredients statement will satisfy the FDA law. Under 2% of the formula of a food product or ingredient can be remained hidden in any food product or ingredient such as lubricant used on cookie band oven to prevent cookies stick to oven band. But you never see it is mentioned under ingredients statement.

Flavor specification of flavors used in company's food products is available to only QA, R & D, Technical service department but not to consumer department, this is the reason, she or he said the weird answer.

Muslim Consumer Group educates Muslims in USA/Canada to ask this question about alcohol in flavor of any food product to a food company's consumer department:

" Is alcohol used as a solvent or carrier in natural or artificial flavor of this food product? since alcohol is a hidden ingredient of flavor if used. This information is available in the specification of flavor. Flavor specification is available at your QA department, could you please ask them to find out. Since we cannot consume alcohol based on our religious dietary requirements"

If you do not ask above question and just ask do you have alcohol in the food product, they will look at the ingredients list and tell you, no alcohol is present in this food product which is a wrong answer.

The flavor of a food product substance is the combined sensation of taste and odor. Natural Flavor must made from natural sources or substrate, artificial flavor is not obtained from natural substrate or from chemicals is defined as Artificial flavor.

I have discussed a lot about alcohol in foods on this forum, MCG Hanafi Ulema do not consider any food product as Halal if alcohol from any source is used as a solvent or carrier in flavors or as an ingredients no matter if it evaporates and remained in very minimum amount. They said that it is Haram because it is a intoxicant. Khamer is a Najus if obtained from grape or date and when it falls on your cloth, you cannot pray without washing it. But Khamer from other than grape and date is not Najus but still it intoxicant because it has quality to make a person intoxicant. Other Hanafi Ulema may have different opinions.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum

This is a example of Muslim Consumer Group's education drive for Halal foods for Muslim consumers in USA/Canada especially for presence or absence of alcohol in flavors.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:30:06 -0300
From: compliments@sobeys.com
To: peace@.com
Subject: RE: SR0000000244488 From: sobeys@gmail.com Compliments.ca - Customer Inquiry

Sent: 7/5/2010 10:30:06 AM

Good day Ms. Sandy,

Thank you again for your inquiry.

We have received confirmation from our Quality Assurance department that no alcohol and no animal ingredients other than the milk (which comes from cows) is present in the Chocolate Pudding.

Please feel free to contact us again should you have any further questions or comments.

Regards,

Carmen

Previous E-mail
From:sobeys@.com
To: compliments@sobeys.com
CC:
Received:04/07/2010 6:52:50 PM

CUSTOMER INQUIRY
Customer Name: sandy
Customer Email: peace@.com
Customer Phone:
Message:

I have 2 questions about your Compliment Pudding-Chocolate, 4 X 99G

1.Is there any animal derived ingredients in it
2.Is alcohol used as a solvent in flavors, alcohol is a hidden ingredient in flavors, this knowledge is available from the specification of flavors by your suppliers, only QA or Technical service department is accessible to the specification not the customer service. So please find out from your QA or Technical service department whether alcohol a hidden ingredient in flavor is used or not as a solvent.


Carmen Leustean
Customer Care
1680 Tech Avenue, Unit #1
Mississauga, ON
L4W 5S9
Toll Free: 1-866-672-0061
compliments@sobeys.com

[PouringRain]

I have discussed a lot about alcohol in foods on this forum, MCG Hanafi Ulema do not consider any food product as Halal if alcohol from any source is used as a solvent or carrier in flavors or as an ingredients no matter if it evaporates and remained in very minimum amount. They said that it is Haram because it is a intoxicant.


Pardon me if this is a stupid question that was already answered in your post and I missed it...

Does this mean that yeast breads would be haram, because of the alcohol produced in the cooking process, even though most (all ?) is completely evaporated?

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum PouringRain sister,

Quote: " Pardon me if this is a stupid question that was already answered in your post and I missed it...

Does this mean that yeast breads would be haram, because of the alcohol produced in the cooking process, even though most (all ?) is completely evaporated? "

I was talking about man added alcohol in flavors when there is Halal alternate is avialble for flavorist.

Alcohol is present in all ripe fruits and vegetable similarly yeast is a live organizm in bread until baking, yeast enzymes Invertase, Maltase and Zymase leach out of yeast cells during fermentation process and act on sucrose(sugar), Maltose and Dextrin of flour carbohydrate and added sugar to produce CO2, alcohol and other fermentation organic flavoring compounds. So production of alcohol in bread baking, in ripe fruits and vegetable is due to nature. It is Halal to consume fruits, vegetable, naan, breads since 1400 years ago for Muslims. The question is about man added alcohol not alcohol produced by nature.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[huzu]

Wine Completely changes before it becomes vinegar

[PouringRain]

Thank you for replying to me rasheedahmed. For some reason I never saw your reply until the thread was brought back up tonight, otherwise I would have thanked you earlier. My apologies.

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Huzu,

Wine will not convert 100% to wine vinegar because the Acetobacter bacteria only works on alcohol of wine to convert it to Acetic Acid and water. Wine content about 12-14% alcohol and bacteria unable to convert all alcohol of wine so there is a left over of wine in wine vinegar. But in regular vinegar, dilute alcohol is used as raw material to convert it to Acetic Acid and water. So the left over amount of dilute alcohol is zero to minimum. Not all part of wine is converted such as flavoring compounds, aroma compounds and color pigments if it is a red wine because Acetobacter bacteria has no ability to work on these compounds. There is a Sahee Muslim hadith about not consuming wine vinegar but it is allowed in Hanafi mazhab. I think current Muftisaheban should look into scientific facts about converting wine to a wine vinegar.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[rasheedahmed]

QUESTION TO ASK OR WRITE ABOUT ALCOHOL IN FLAVOR OF A FOOD PRODUCT

Assalam O Alaikum

We request Muslim consumers to use the following phrase when asking or writing the question to consumer department of a food company about presence or absence of alcohol in the flavor of a food product.

" is alcohol used as a solvent in flavor; alcohol is a hidden ingredient of flavor, it will not appear in the ingredients statement. The knowledge of presence or absence of alcohol in flavor is only known to QA or Technical service department that has access to the specification of flavors, not the customer service. In the specification of flavor, the flavor supplier supposed to write the name of solvent or carrier used in a flavor by law. So please request them to find out from QA or Technical service department whether alcohol a hidden ingredient in flavor is used as a solvent in the flavor".

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[abdullahnana]

QUESTION TO ASK OR WRITE ABOUT ALCOHOL IN FLAVOR OF A FOOD PRODUCT

Assalam O Alaikum

We request Muslim consumers to use the following phrase when asking or writing the question to consumer department of a food company about presence or absence of alcohol in the flavor of a food product.

" is alcohol used as a solvent in flavor; alcohol is a hidden ingredient of flavor, it will not appear in the ingredients statement. The knowledge of presence or absence of alcohol in flavor is only known to QA or Technical service department that has access to the specification of flavors, not the customer service. In the specification of flavor, the flavor supplier supposed to write the name of solvent or carrier used in a flavor by law. So please request them to find out from QA or Technical service department whether alcohol a hidden ingredient in flavor is used as a solvent in the flavor".

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

Assalamu Alaykum

This issue has been discussed before on numerous occasions on this forum. Syed Rasheeduddin is entitled to his view. However, many of the Senior Muftis of this centure including Mufti Nizamuddin, Mufti Shafi, Maulana Thanwi, Mufti Ebrahim Desai, Mufti Sacha, and others have issued a ruling that it is permissible to consume minute quantities of alcohol which is not derived from dates or grapes and cannot intoxicate the individual. I have compiled a detailed fatwa on this topic which is over 15 pages which has been referred to on this forum before.

Keep in mind that it is almost impossible to determine if alcohol is found in every product which contains artificial flavors or natural flavors. If one is advocating the view that such alcohol is impermissible to consume, then they must research every product to determine if alcohol is present in the artificial flavors. It is a terrible injustice to the community to simply categorize products as halal if no alcohol is found in the artificial flavors. For God's sake, determine if there is alcohol in the artificial flavors and let the Muslim community know if it is halal or haram. Creating a third category has created a tremendous amount of confusion amongst the Muslim masses.

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum Mufti Nana,

It was pleasure to meet you at our booth at ISNA Convention and thanks for buying Halal food book "A Comprehensive List of Halal Food Products in US Supermarkets" eight edition.

Mufti Nizamuddin, Mufti Shafi, Maulana Thanwi, Mufti Ebrahim Desai, Mufti Sacha has the right to interpret the Hanafi Fiqah but there are many Hanafi Mufti Saheban such as:

Mufti Mohammed Hafeezur Rahman Khan of Chicago Muslim Sunni Society, Chicago, IL (773-275-7130)
•Mufti Syed Ahmedul Quadri of Islamic Academy of Dallas, TX (972-423-2626)

•Mufti Khalil Ahmed of Jamia Nizamia, Hyderabad, India(Phone 01191-9849071327, jamianizamia@yahoo.com) who has different view on alcohol and consider it Haram if even a drop of it added to foods.

As I wrote before that there is no difference in physical, chemical and intoxication of Ethyl alcohol made from any source because it has same chemical formula.

What about the famous hadith "Every intoxicant is Haram" and "Small portion is Haram and Large portion of intoxicant is Haram"

How could a common Muslim like me without fiqah education consider the status of those ahadith. Do we have to follow their fatwa against above hadith.

Many Muslims in western countries are consuming foods without alcohol including me. Those ulema has to promote Taqwa among Muslims not to consumed alcohol containing food products. Our forefathers never eat alcohol containing food products in old India why we have to do so.

My efforts of teaching about eating food products without alcohol alhumdulillah gained so much that the food companies are looking to avoid using alcohol in flavors due to so many calls from Muslim consumers both in USA and Canada.

I request those ulema to stop promoting use of alcohol from other than grape and date in food products.

For your information all the skin care products with perfumes are made from alcohol obtained from grape because there is no kosher certified skin care products in USA.

" Keep in mind that it is almost impossible to determine if alcohol is found in every product which contains artificial flavors or natural flavors. If one is advocating the view that such alcohol is impermissible to consume, then they must research every product to determine if alcohol is present in the artificial flavors. It is a terrible injustice to the community to simply categorize products as halal if no alcohol is found in the artificial flavors. For God's sake, determine if there is alcohol in the artificial flavors and let the Muslim community know if it is halal or haram. Creating a third category has created a tremendous amount of confusion amongst the Muslim masses."

What do you mean " Keep in mind that it is almost impossible to determine if alcohol is found in every product which contains artificial flavors or natural flavors". You already have my Halal food book and please go to our website and see so many flavors are made without alcohol. When I developed 4 nutrition bars for MLO Products Fairfield, CA in 2003 I asked flavor supplier not to use alcohol in flavor and they did it. I formulated those Halal nutrition bars. This shows you have no expereience in food industry and I am working in US food i ndustry since December 1973. I have developed a Orchard Nut for Starbuck in 2006 which even do not have flavor and it is a Halal products. Beside I developed 10 new products for Kraft Foods and 3 for Nabisco for supermarkets.

If you go to News section of our websites, you find information about absence of alcohol either in natural or artificial flavor provided by many Muslim consumers who got the e-mails from food company that they do not use alcohol in flavor.

Title No alcohol in flavor of Gorton
Event Date Thu Jun 18 12:20:43 CDT 2009
Type News
Description NO ALCOHOL IN FLAVORS OF GORTON FISH PRODUCTS IN US & CANADA

Gorton food Inc. has informed MCG on phone that all the flavors used in coating seasonings of Gorton and Blue water(in Canada) brnad of frozen fish products with kosher symbol on them are not made with alcohol. It tooks two months to investigate our question. They are trying to get this information in writing. Inshallah we will change the status of frozen fish products of Gorton and Blue water brands with kosher symbol researched in 2008 and 2009.

No Alcohol in flavor of Britania
Event Date Sat Apr 03 18:07:19 CDT 2010
Type News
Description NO ALCOHOL IN FLAVORS OF BRITANNIA BISCUITS IN INDIA

MCG has received a e-mail from Britannia India that they do not use alcohol as a solvent or carrier in all their flavors for all their products and also they do not use alcohol containing ingredients.

Dear Sir,



While we know that alcohol (ethyl alcohol) can be used as a carrier for

flavours, kindly be informed that none of the flavours

used by Britannia contains alcohol as a carrier. None of the other

ingredients contain alcohol in them.

Hence, I replied that Britannia products are free of alcohol.



Thanking you,

Yours truly

Dr.S.Lalitha

Manager, R&D - Nutrition & Lab,

R&D Centre, Britannia

Tel: 044 3021 6075

Fax: 044 2625 8563

Title No Alcohol in Veg-All Vegetabl
Event Date Wed Jun 24 19:31:19 CDT 2009
Type News
Description VEG-ALL ORIGINAL CANNED MIXED VEGETABLE IS HALAL
Allen Canning Company wrote that the Onion Flavoring used as an ingredient in Veg All Original Canned Mixed Vegetable do not contain alcohol as a solvent. It is a onion extract without alcohol not as flavor. It is similar termed used for Natural Flavoring which is a Oleoresin of black pepper or extract of black pepper with acetone.

SUPER VALUE CANNED STEWED TOMATOES ITALIAN STYLE IS ALSO HALAL

Red Gold Canning Company a co packer for Super Value canned vegetables has informed MCG that the natural flavor do not contain alcohol as a solvent in Super Value Canned Stewed Tomatoes Italian Style.

Title No Alcohol in Cones of Baskin Robbins
Event Date Tue May 05 11:34:39 CDT 2009
Type News
Description No alcohol is used as a solvent in Vanilla and artificial flavor of Cake cones, Sugar Cones and Waffle Cones in Baskin Robbins Ice Cream stores in USA/Canada according to Baskin Robbins Company. So All three cones at Baskin Robbins stores are Halal.

Honey Nut Cheerios Cereal
Event Date Fri Jan 16 19:36:51 CST 2009
Type News
Description HONEY NUT CHEERIOS CEREAL IS STILL HALAL

Recently General Mills has added Natural Almond Flavor to Heney Nut Cheerios cereal. MCG has contacted the General Mills regarding the solvent in Natural Almond Flavor. Alcohol is not used as a solvent in Natural Almond Flavor according to the company. So Honey Nut Cheerios cereal is still a Halal cereal.

Title NO ALCOHOL IN COTTAGE CHEESE
Event Date Fri Nov 02 20:47:19 CDT 2007
Type News
Description Dean Foods has informed MCG after checking with their QA department that no alcohol is used as a solvent in natural and artificial flavor in their Cottage cheese products.

COMPLIMENTS PHYLLO PASTRY SHEETS ARE A HALAL PRODUCT
According to an e-mail from Sobeys reference number SR0000000249627 received by a Canadian Muslim consumer that Compliments Phyllo Pastry Sheets are made without animal derived ingredients and alcohol.

HORLICKS MADE IN INDIA IS A HALAL PRODUCT
According to an e-mail from Smithkline Consumer Healthcare Ltd with Reference No.: 54021853208 sent to a Muslim consumer that there is no animal derived ingredients except milk solids and no alcohol used as a solvent in flavor in Horlicks made in India.
Horlicks also has a vegetarin green dot symbol on the bottle. Horlics is sold in Indian Pakistani stores throughout USA and Canada.

LOACKER'S CRISPY WAFERS FILLED WITH VANILLA CREAM IS A HALAL PRODUCT
Italian brand Loacker's Crispy Wafers filled with Vanilla Cream is a Halal products because it is both Halal and Kosher certified with their symbols on the package. The vanilla Cream is made with Bourbon Pods( plant Beans) not with Vanilla flavors with alcohol extraction. This is the first Halal Vanilla Wafers in both USA and Canada. All other brands are made with Vanilla Flavors. It is available at No Frills supermarkets in Toronto

No alcohol is used in the flavor of Compliments Cream Cheese Flavored Frosting according to Sobey's e-mail received by a Canadian Muslim consumer. Compliments brands are avaialble at Price Chopper supermarkets in Toronto.

CHAPMAN'S HALAL ICE CREAM PRODUCTS
A Muslim consumer from Canada has provided the e-mail from Chapman about some of their ice cream products which are made with alcohol free flavors.
Following is list of Chapman's Halal Ice Cream Products:
Chapman's Premium 2 Litre: Black Cherry, Hokey Pokey.
Novelties: Super Lolly Assorted 12 pack, Super Lolly Banana 12 pack, Super Lolly Orange 12 pack.
No Sugar Added 1 Litre: Black Cherry.
Chapman's Original 2 Litre: Orange Pineapple, Tiger Tail
Chapman's Original 4 litre: Tiger Tail
Sorbets 2 Litre: Raspberry, Orange, Rainbow
Frozen Yogurt 2 Litre: Strawberry, Mixed Berry, Mandarin Orange

FIRST HALAL CAKE MIXES WITHOUT FLAVOR
Betty Crocker has introduced new Gluten Free Devil’s Food Cake Mix and new Gluten Free Yellow Cake Mix for both USA and Canada. These are the first Halal cake mixes without any flavor. These products are kosher certified and meet the Halal requirements. These cake mixes are made in Canada.

Aero

Alcohol: Vanilla flavour used in Aeros contains no ethyl alcohol.

Vanillin does not come
into contact with alcohol during its production


Animal source: No animal sourced materials are used in the manufacture of the
raw materials except for milk

Crunch:
Alcohol: The flavour source contains no alcohol, and there is no alcohol in any of the other ingredients.


Animal source: No animal sourced materials are used in the manufacture
of the raw materials except for milk.

This information was provided by our sister in Canada

You should not confuse Muslims about what we are doing, without food science education, food industry experience you can not give a say about alcohol in flavor. You can see yourself that a ntural or a artificial flavor can be made without alcohol. Now what do you say about those e-mails and information. You even do not know who has the knowledge of absence and presence of alcohol in flavor in a food company.

It is my humble advice to those honorable muftisaheban to look hard what is going on in US food industry and do not make fatwa without consultation of experienced Muslims food scientists. It also shows hollow knowledge about modern food products in western countries. It is due to not consulting with food scientists.

Is histroy repeating itself, according to many articles, a fitna among Muslims was developed after Hajrat Abu Hanifa, Muslims were abusing his fatwa, by drinking intoxicants then his students came to disperse fitna according many articles. So my request is to you not to give up and encourage Muslims to avoid eating alcohol conatining food products.

You have to provide in detail to Muslims about why alcohol from grape, date is Haram and why alcohol from other than garpe or date is Halal. Is it because in those days no Quamer was made from those listed in ahadith.

Alcohol was discovered in the last days of Hajrat abu Hanifa, so all ahidith about intoxication was either about fermented juice or wine. How could those ulema saying about alcohol from grape and date is Haram when there was no specific hadith mentioning the name of alcohol. Intoxicants were mentioned. Please explained to us because you told us that you have published 15 pages fatwa on it.

Again Mufti Nana your going to such a area which you have no education, no experience in food industry and your judgement can not be accepted because you are not expert in food technology.

You did a terrible mistake by suggesting Muslims to consume Cheetos and Doritos and then you received lot of complaints then you pullout your fatwa. Food sciene, food production is not a cup of tea for you. But I suggest you to concentrate on Zabiha slaughtering in USA and please also consult with Dr. Iqbal Ahmed of Muslim Veterinari Association because he has 30 years of USDA animal slaughtering experience.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[meelash]

I have discussed a lot about alcohol in foods on this forum, MCG Hanafi Ulema do not consider any food product as Halal if alcohol from any source is used as a solvent or carrier in flavors or as an ingredients no matter if it evaporates and remained in very minimum amount. They said that it is Haram because it is a intoxicant. Khamer is a Najus if obtained from grape or date and when it falls on your cloth, you cannot pray without washing it. But Khamer from other than grape and date is not Najus but still it intoxicant because it has quality to make a person intoxicant. Other Hanafi Ulema may have different opinions.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products USA
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

السلام عليكم،

Brother Rasheeduddin, could you please give the names of the MCG Hanafi 'Ulema.

Also, to all parties involved please stick strictly to the topic, and do not bring up other past discussions on other topics, etc.. I know there is a lot of history, but if we always bring up past history, we guarantee that their is no benefit in further discussion.

[meelash]

Assalamu Alaykum

This issue has been discussed before on numerous occasions on this forum. Syed Rasheeduddin is entitled to his view. However, many of the Senior Muftis of this centure including Mufti Nizamuddin, Mufti Shafi, Maulana Thanwi, Mufti Ebrahim Desai, Mufti Sacha, and others have issued a ruling that it is permissible to consume minute quantities of alcohol which is not derived from dates or grapes and cannot intoxicate the individual. I have compiled a detailed fatwa on this topic which is over 15 pages which has been referred to on this forum before.

Keep in mind that it is almost impossible to determine if alcohol is found in every product which contains artificial flavors or natural flavors. If one is advocating the view that such alcohol is impermissible to consume, then they must research every product to determine if alcohol is present in the artificial flavors. It is a terrible injustice to the community to simply categorize products as halal if no alcohol is found in the artificial flavors. For God's sake, determine if there is alcohol in the artificial flavors and let the Muslim community know if it is halal or haram. Creating a third category has created a tremendous amount of confusion amongst the Muslim masses.

السلام عليكم،

Mufti saheb, if you have the link readily available for that fatwa, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll go looking for it tomorrow.
Also, it appears to me that Maulana Thanvi's discussion of alcohol and intoxicants in Bahishti Zewar is other than you've mentioned. Perhaps I am understanding it incorrectly? :insh: I will paste it here tomorrow for reference.

I've been meaning to as this question for a while, since seeing the other long thread on non-khamr alcohol, so :alhamd: that I noticed this thread.

[meelash]

Here it is:

INTOXICANTS
1. All alcoholic drinks are haraam and impure. The same rule applies to toddy (a drink that is
made by adding hot water and sugar to whisky, rum, or brandy). It is not permissible to consume
these alcoholic drinks even as a source of medication. In fact, it is not even permissible to apply
medicines that contain alcohol.
2. Apart from alcohol, it is permissible to consume all other intoxicants on the condition that they
are consumed only for medication. Furthermore, only that amount will be permissible which does
not intoxicate the person. If a person consumes an amount that intoxicates him, it will become
haraam upon him. It is also permissible to apply medicines that contain such intoxicants. Such
intoxicants are: opium, nutmeg, saffron, etc.
3. It is permissible to consume toddy and alcohol that has turned into vinegar.
4. Some women give opium to their children in an effort to stop them crying and putting them off
to sleep. This is haraam.

Even if we take rule 1 to only refer to alcohol from grapes and dates (which is not explicitly mentioned), rule 2 is forbidding any other intoxicant for anything besides medication. So wouldn't that make the ruling on these natural flavors also haram?

(actually I just realized now for the first time, it mentions there nutmeg and saffron, both things used in our cooking. Yikes!)

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Meelash,

I already publsihed their names of our Hanafi Muftisaheban in my previous thread to Mufti Nana Saheb, but here again:

Mufti Mohammed Hafeezur Rahman Khan of Chicago Muslim Sunni Society, Chicago, IL (773-275-7130)
•Mufti Syed Ahmedul Quadri of Islamic Academy of Dallas, TX (972-423-2626)

•Mufti Khalil Ahmed of Jamia Nizamia, Hyderabad, India(Phone 01191-9849071327, jamianizamia@yahoo.com)

Mufti Mohsin Mecci of Chicago Muslim Sunni Society, Chicago, IL(773-801-9101)

All the muftisahban are educated in India in various Hanafi Fiqa Schools and hold Mufti degree.

Title FATWA ON ALCOHOL
Event Date Thu Sep 24 10:47:38 CDT 2009
Type Alert
Description FATWA FROM DARUL IFTA JAMIA NIZAMIA HYDERABAD, INDIA ON ALCOHOL

Jamia Nizamia has issued the following Fatwa on Alcohol:

Although there is difference of opinion among ulema about alcohol being consider as wine but according to "Mufti Ba Qhool" (saying of Mufti) anything which causes intoxication in large or small quantity is consider as Haram. So use of alcohol is prohibited .( I cannot copy and paste the Fatwa from Jamia Nizamia Hyderabad, India in Urdu, please go to www.muslimconsumergroup.com then Alert section look for Event Date Thu Sep 24 10:47:38 CDT 2009 to read the Urdu version).


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Aalikum Mufti Nana,

Quote: Keep in mind that it is almost impossible to determine if alcohol is found in every product which contains artificial flavors or natural flavors. If one is advocating the view that such alcohol is impermissible to consume, then they must research every product to determine if alcohol is present in the artificial flavors. It is a terrible injustice to the community to simply categorize products as halal if no alcohol is found in the artificial flavors. For God's sake, determine if there is alcohol in the artificial flavors and let the Muslim community know if it is halal or haram. Creating a third category has created a tremendous amount of confusion amongst the Muslim masses. end of quote.

MCG started educationg Muslims since 1995 to call food companies and ask whether alcohol was used as a solvent in flavor. Only food companies and flavor supplier has this knowledge nobody have this knowledge. MCG do not have resources to inquire thousand of food products mentioned in Halal food book and on our website about whether alcohol was used in flavor. If Muslim consumers call the food companies then it will go to consumer database to provide listing to food scientists, QA, technicaql service personel to improve their products to eiliminate alcohol in flavors for example. Few companies in past not to provide this information to consumers but things are changing, they are providing alcohol information. They do not give important if only MCG is calling. As a Mufti saheb you should not know that prayers, dua are not accepted by Allah for forty days if we consumed Haram food products. So all Muslims has to struggle to find Halal foods in western countries. As I mentioned many US Muslim consumers are asking the question about alcohol in flavor and they are forwarding e-mails from food companies to MCG so that we can inform other Muslims that some food products are not amde with alcohol containing flavors. It is sad to see Muftisaheban do not bring the important of Halal foods and Halal earning to Muslims. Because of lack of education about Halal foods and Halal earning many Muslims are becaming franchise where pork and alcohol are sold. You already know the news of some Muslims smashing the liquor stores owned by Muslims in Oakland, CA.

It is not difficult for Muslims to find out the presence of alcohol in flavors because they have access to 800 numbers, many Muslims including me started consuming those food products where alcohol is not used in flavor. Even Indian Britania company is not using alcohol in flavor. Britania biscuits are available at all Indian Pakistani stores. Let all Muftisaheban join with MCG to teach Muslims not to consume food products made with alcohol containing flavors rather than providing short cuts and adicting Muslims with alcohol containing food products based on disputed fiqah of one mazhab.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[hitech]

Is there any good chemical way to find effect of alchohal? Any article?

[rasheedahmed]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. hitech,

http://chemcases.com/alcohol/alc-07.htm Alcohol Chemistry and You
http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=121327 physiological effect of alcohol on human body
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm Alcohol's damaging effect on the brain


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group For Food Products
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com