samrqandi
28-05-2005, 06:18 PM
assalaamu^alaikum
I wanted to ask the user abu taymiya since he is a claiment of tafweed, that’s why did he translated the word saaq as shin since that’s clear cut tashbeeh and only the mushabiha i.e. the so-called salafiyyah of today translate it like that. Such people include abu rumaysah, khalil harris and other mubtadi innovators.
Now abu taymiya would you like to shed light on this matter [--]:
Now as for your translation that saaq means shin in English, I would like to ask: what does shin mean in the English language?
Just to help you on this matter, I will give you the main two definitions of word shin in the English language:
1. a. The front part of the leg below the knee and above the ankle.
b. The shinbone.
2. The lower foreleg in beef cattle. Used of cuts of meat.
Now my simple question (and please don’t side line the issue that somebody else has used the same translation): what definition are you taking since it’s extremely limited?
To further continue if you was a man of tafweed then you would stop at the Arabic word saaq and say Allah knows best. But that’s never been the case of the mushabiha. The great Hanafiyy linguist and scholar of hadith, Imam Murtada az-Zabidiyy, in his book, Ithafus-Sadatil-Muttaqin: …"Your saying, 'we take it by its literal meaning and it is incomprehensible' is contradictory in itself. If you take by its literal meaning, then 'as-saq' in Suratal-Qalam,ayah 42, is a 'shin' which is a part made up of flesh, bones, muscle, and nerves. If you take by that the literal meaning, then you have committed blasphemy, and if you deny it, then how do you claim to take by the literal meaning?"
b) The correct saying as pointed out by Ibn Taymiyyah and others from the Salaf, including Abu Sa'eed al-Khudree who say that this aayah is an aayah relating to Allaah's Attributes. The proof for this is the hadeeth of Abu Sa'eed al-Khudree - may Allaah be pleased with him - where the 'saaq' is also mentioned, except that here it is clearly shown to be an Attribute of Allaah - (fayakshifu an saaqihi) - "so Allaah will uncover His Shin". So it is possible that this hadeeth did not reach Ibn Abbaas - just as the ruling that the grandmothers inherit did not reach Abu Bakr - may Allaah be pleased with him - and so on, and if it had reached him then he would have explained the aayah according to it.
would just like to make a point clear why is it, that if ibn taymiya says something then that is the correct point. As far as it goes many of the ulema of the salaf didn’t take saaq to mean shin. As for those who claim: that no they are using a linguistical ta’weel then that is what the ashari’s do as well. As for that anaylsis then thats not what i opt for.
Imam At-Tabari said, “A group of the Sahaabah, Taabi’oon, and the scholars of ta’weel have said: ‘He will reveal a severe matter.’”
يقول تعالى ذكره { يَوْمَ يُكْشَفُ عَنْ ساقٍ } قال جماعة من الصحابة والتابعين من أهل التأويل: يبدو عن أمر شديد
I am not going to re-iterate the same thing since what I have said in the other thread is clear. Hence if people take the word saaq to mean an attribute of Allah, then would that mean, that those who state that it is a day of severity are denying the attribute of Allah?
I will have other comments for you insha-allah [that’s if I be around] since you seem to be the aqeeda expert!
I wanted to ask the user abu taymiya since he is a claiment of tafweed, that’s why did he translated the word saaq as shin since that’s clear cut tashbeeh and only the mushabiha i.e. the so-called salafiyyah of today translate it like that. Such people include abu rumaysah, khalil harris and other mubtadi innovators.
Now abu taymiya would you like to shed light on this matter [--]:
Now as for your translation that saaq means shin in English, I would like to ask: what does shin mean in the English language?
Just to help you on this matter, I will give you the main two definitions of word shin in the English language:
1. a. The front part of the leg below the knee and above the ankle.
b. The shinbone.
2. The lower foreleg in beef cattle. Used of cuts of meat.
Now my simple question (and please don’t side line the issue that somebody else has used the same translation): what definition are you taking since it’s extremely limited?
To further continue if you was a man of tafweed then you would stop at the Arabic word saaq and say Allah knows best. But that’s never been the case of the mushabiha. The great Hanafiyy linguist and scholar of hadith, Imam Murtada az-Zabidiyy, in his book, Ithafus-Sadatil-Muttaqin: …"Your saying, 'we take it by its literal meaning and it is incomprehensible' is contradictory in itself. If you take by its literal meaning, then 'as-saq' in Suratal-Qalam,ayah 42, is a 'shin' which is a part made up of flesh, bones, muscle, and nerves. If you take by that the literal meaning, then you have committed blasphemy, and if you deny it, then how do you claim to take by the literal meaning?"
b) The correct saying as pointed out by Ibn Taymiyyah and others from the Salaf, including Abu Sa'eed al-Khudree who say that this aayah is an aayah relating to Allaah's Attributes. The proof for this is the hadeeth of Abu Sa'eed al-Khudree - may Allaah be pleased with him - where the 'saaq' is also mentioned, except that here it is clearly shown to be an Attribute of Allaah - (fayakshifu an saaqihi) - "so Allaah will uncover His Shin". So it is possible that this hadeeth did not reach Ibn Abbaas - just as the ruling that the grandmothers inherit did not reach Abu Bakr - may Allaah be pleased with him - and so on, and if it had reached him then he would have explained the aayah according to it.
would just like to make a point clear why is it, that if ibn taymiya says something then that is the correct point. As far as it goes many of the ulema of the salaf didn’t take saaq to mean shin. As for those who claim: that no they are using a linguistical ta’weel then that is what the ashari’s do as well. As for that anaylsis then thats not what i opt for.
Imam At-Tabari said, “A group of the Sahaabah, Taabi’oon, and the scholars of ta’weel have said: ‘He will reveal a severe matter.’”
يقول تعالى ذكره { يَوْمَ يُكْشَفُ عَنْ ساقٍ } قال جماعة من الصحابة والتابعين من أهل التأويل: يبدو عن أمر شديد
I am not going to re-iterate the same thing since what I have said in the other thread is clear. Hence if people take the word saaq to mean an attribute of Allah, then would that mean, that those who state that it is a day of severity are denying the attribute of Allah?
I will have other comments for you insha-allah [that’s if I be around] since you seem to be the aqeeda expert!