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Silver Sparrow
06-07-2005, 10:27 PM
This is another extract from the Happy Married Life khutbah:
(By Maulana Hakeem Muhammad Akhtar Saheb)

The translation of the next Hadith is:


"The most blessed Nikah is the one in which least expenses are occured" and is simple. Allāh has put barkat in simplicity, but nowadays the weddings have to be in halls and thousands of people are invited for meals. Food is served in buffet style, free intermingling of sexes, various types of food is served, music is blaring loudly, photos are taken with the bride being displayed on the stage, if possible then the whole wedding is also put on video etc etc.

About buffet style eating Allāh states in the Holy Qur'ān:
"They eat like animals."
This verse was for the kuffār. What a pity that the Muslims are now immitating the Western Kuffār. Whereas the true benefactor of the ummah announced it fourteen hundred years back, that do not eat & drink while standing. The muslims are openly going against this beloved teaching.

Another evil in these weddings is that video films are made of the wedding, certain bearded and so called pious people keep sitting and seeing all this happening. It is NOT permissible to even sit there, it is Wajib to go away from there immediately. Any gathering where Allāh is disobeyed, should be walked out on, even as far as removing the morsel that was in the mouth already. These are evil customs which people dare to call marriage of simplicity and blessings. Naoothu billahimin Thālik.

If a Walimah has to take place then it too should be done very simply. It is not Wajib to make Walimah inviting hundreds of people and keeping it in a hall. Invite a few needy people and feed them, the sunnah of Walimah will be achieved. Feed the walimah guests in your house, you won't need to hire a hall for which you have to pay hundreds. Rather save all this money and give it to your daughter or son who is marrying or keep it for yourself and use it in a good cause. Remember, even if thousands of people will attend the wedding or walimah, they will never be satisfied, they will have unending complaints, e.g. the food was too salty or too oily or the meat was not done properly or it was too strong, or the food was tasteless or burnt etc. etc. Therefore leave all this wastage and work with simplicity. A Sahābi got married in Medina and he did not even invite Rasulullah SallAllāhu Alayhi Wasallam to a walima feast. When Rasulullah SallAllāhu Alayhi Wasallam found out about this Sahābi's marriage, he did not show displeasure to this Sahābi that why why did he not invite him. Nowadays the family fights if they are not invited and say they will not invite to their functions and will not attend any other gathering in future. All this is ignorance. So a Nikah in which least expenses are occured, think it to be the most blessed.

Julaybib
23-07-2007, 07:53 AM
Salaams

Except when you tell people that you wish to get married in accordance with the sunnah.You are told what will people think

We have people hiring limousines and cars a few years ago somebody I know hired a helicopter for their wedding.

And a lot of the time after spending thousands they end up getting divorced with in a few months. Well at least they managed to keep their prestige in front of people.

Allah help us realise the Barakah in doing things in accordance with the sunnah.

May Allah reward you for starting this post with the gifts of Sabr and shukr ameen

sufireader
23-07-2007, 08:36 AM
Hi, aren't you meant to show how wealthy you are and not act miserly if you are rich? Isn't that a hadith?

Maybe one way of doing it is:

If you are wealthy, invite many guests. But spend only enough so that each guest can eat their fill, with hardly any food being left over.

Neyzen
23-07-2007, 08:41 AM
let alone wedding expenses, even engagements expenses are too high

undoubtly there will be many single people who cant get married cause of financial reasons

i guess convert sisters are not expecting much, yo brothers lets find a convert sister for marriage :lol: :lol:

:cheesygri :cheesygri :cheesygri

Julaybib
23-07-2007, 08:45 AM
Salaams

Why not spend the wealth in the way of Allah instead of earning prestige.

It is narrated that Abu Quhafa the father of Abu Bakr (ra)who was not yet a muslim ,
told his son.

" O my son I see you are spending your wealth in freeing weak slaves. Why dont you instead spend your wealth in winnning over powerful men who can help you and protect you?"

Abu Bakr (ra) replied:
" O father! I am doing what I am doing only for the sake of God."


Taken from Bilal Ibn Rabah author Muhammad Abdul Rauf.

The author also states several verses were revealed in connection with Abu Bakrs spending purely for the sake of Allah.

alfatiha
23-07-2007, 08:48 AM
:salam: It depends on where do you live. But I don't think it's possible in the west. There is a wedding with really huge number of guests coming but with little cost because they don't have this fancy elaborate wordrobe, tents, flowers, etc. Foods are cooked by family and neighbors and every body that come chip in either bring food (goat, chicken, egg, vegetable), help cooking, give money, build tents, etc. So when some other people get married in the community, the others will help the same way. The cycle goes on and on.

sufireader
23-07-2007, 08:54 AM
Salaams

Why not spend the wealth in the way of Allah instead of earning prestige.

It is narrated that Abu Quhafa the father of Abu Bakr (ra)who was not yet a muslim ,
told his son.

" O my son I see you are spending your wealth in freeing weak slaves. Why dont you instead spend your wealth in winnning over powerful menwho can help you and protect you?"

Abu Bakr (ra) replied:
" O father! I am doing what I am doing only for the sake of God."


Taken from Bilal Ibn Rabah author Muhammad Abdul Rauf.

The author also states several verses were revealed in connection with Abu Bakrs spending purely for the sake of Allah.

The idea of showing God's favour on you in the hadith that l was alluding to was to actually make it visible in your clothing.

So if wearing fine clothes is encouraged for wealthy people, then why not a big wedding?

Clothes with long sleeves etc. are frowned upon, no matter how fine they are. Similarly, maybe a wedding with excessive food is also wrong, no matter how many people are there. So maybe a wedding for a billionnaire that cost millions is ok, but if each guest wastes 1 Kg of chicken, then it is wrong.

Julaybib
23-07-2007, 08:56 AM
Salaams

Which country are you referring too, Brother Al Fatiha, in My part of Pakistan that has a very large community in England from it The average wedding is about
£ 8000. in the U.K. your looking at at least twice that.

And I heard in Shaykh Abdul Sattars lectures that in Chicago the Major hotels actually scout for businness amongst muslims cus they spend Thousands of Dollars on the weddings.

alfatiha
23-07-2007, 09:05 AM
Salaams

Which country are you referring too, Brother Al Fatiha, in My part of Pakistan that has a very large community in England from it The average wedding is about
£ 8000. in the U.K. your looking at at least twice that.

And I heard in Shaykh Abdul Sattars lectures that in Chicago the Major hotels actually scout for businness amongst muslims cus they spend Thousands of Dollars on the weddings.

:salam: I guess some Muslim community in villages everywhere do that, where helping each other is a norm. My experience was from SouthEast Asian community.

suhayl
23-07-2007, 12:22 PM
What is simple to one person maybe extravagant (sp?) to another and vice versa.

Not disputing the hadith in any way.

sufireader
23-07-2007, 12:27 PM
I think it's to do with wasting, not how much is spent. Like clothing, useless long sleeves are like useless amounts of food / other trappings used in weddings, maybe?

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 12:28 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

If you are a man, then take a stand…

1) Tell the Girls’ father that its either Sunnah-way or the highway

2) If you are dating someone and believe that you can live with this person forever then proceed to your nearest Mosque, perform the Nikah according to Sunnah…

ELSE

Break the relationship because its HARAM!

Music, dancing (mixed), free-mixing and all other derivatives are HARAM & there are no if's, ands or buts about it....

If you want Allah (SWT) to bless your Nikah then follow the Sunnah!

I assist a lot of Brothers & Sisters in their Nikah; so no it doesn’t take thousands & thousands and yes families and relatives do get angry initially; but you can choose to please Allah (SWT) and avoid debt or try to please people and get into debt (and they still won’t be happy!)

Muaz bin jabal
23-07-2007, 12:32 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

If you are a man, then take a stand…

1) Tell the Girls’ father that its either Sunnah-way or the highway

2) If you are dating someone and believe that you can live with this person forever then proceed to your nearest Mosque, perform the Nikah according to Sunnah…

ELSE

Break the relationship because its HARAM!

Music, dancing, free-mixing and all other derivatives are HARAM & there is no if's, ands or buts about it....

If you want Allah (SWT) to bless your Nikah then follow the Sunnah!

I assist a lot of Brothers & Sisters in their Nikah; so no it doesn’t take thousands & thousands and yes families and relatives do get angry initially; but you can choose to please Allah (SWT) and avoid debt or try to please people and get into debt (and they still won’t be happy!)
before i tell my future father in law, i got to tell my mom first(which i believe will be the hard part)

Julaybib
23-07-2007, 12:33 PM
Salaam's

You can make a stand against the prospective in laws how do you make a stand
against your own family. The idea of losing face in front of the wider family and being accused of being stingy, is very strong for our elders.

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 12:36 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

IF you don't want the Sunnah of Rausl-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) dragged through the mud in your Nikah, then Allah (SWT) will assist you & bless you.

IF your resolve is half-hearted then that’s what you will get…

YOU can take a stand because many before you have done so & continue to do so!

Polite & courteous firmness goes a long way.

If the Sister you are marrying thinks along similar lines, it makes it easier, Masha'Allah; which takes us to another point that you should watch who you are marrying anyways!

AllahIsGreat
23-07-2007, 01:04 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

If you are a man, then take a stand…

1) Tell the Girls’ father that its either Sunnah-way or the highway

2) If you are dating someone and believe that you can live with this person forever then proceed to your nearest Mosque, perform the Nikah according to Sunnah…

ELSE

Break the relationship because its HARAM!

Music, dancing (mixed), free-mixing and all other derivatives are HARAM & there are no if's, ands or buts about it....

If you want Allah (SWT) to bless your Nikah then follow the Sunnah!

I assist a lot of Brothers & Sisters in their Nikah; so no it doesn’t take thousands & thousands and yes families and relatives do get angry initially; but you can choose to please Allah (SWT) and avoid debt or try to please people and get into debt (and they still won’t be happy!)

JazakaAllahu Khairan, I couldn't say it better if i tried.

There was once this wedding that was recorded and obviously the tape circulated. There were these two male friends and one of them used to always bring out the tape and watch a particular woman in the middle of the night (wa iyaathu billah). Anyway, on one night similar to this, his friend joined him and naturally he said 'hey bring my tape, I wanna watch my queen'. So he asked his friend to sit with him. And the tape started rolling. All of a sudden,he was punched in the face and he held his face and looked at his friend astonished, 'why did you do that for'. His friend replied, 'how dare you look at my wife!!!!???' And he replied, 'How the hell would i know that she was your wife.It's not my fault that your wife left her home and put herself on display!'

SubhanaAllah. When I first got to know of this incident. I felt disgusted by it. I mean muslims have become so low. It's sad to see that we have forgotten the favour Allah has placed upon us by guiding us.

3:110. 'You [true believers in Islâmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islâm has forbidden), and you believe in Allâh. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fâsiqûn (disobedient to Allâh - and rebellious against Allâh's Command).'

sufireader
23-07-2007, 01:10 PM
I don't understand ... why was the guy that punched the other guy there in the first place? Why didn't he say right from the start, "i don't want to watch your tape". Seems like he only punched his friend because the lady was his wife.

Didn't someone once come to Umar and say that his friend said that his mother was attractive, can you punish him, and Umar told him to take his friend into the desert and beat his shadow. Or something like that? Why are people so ready to hit other people, l don't get it.

AllahIsGreat
23-07-2007, 01:16 PM
I don't understand ... why was the guy that punched the other guy there in the first place? Why didn't he say right from the start, "i don't want to watch your tape". Seems like he only punched his friend because the lady was his wife.

Didn't someone once come to Umar and say that his friend said that his mother was attractive, can you punish him, and Umar told him to take his friend into the desert and beat his shadow. Or something like that? Why are people so ready to hit other people, l don't get it.

I guess it's natural to care more when it involves your family member. Muslims have become violent towards each other. I think they have turned this verse the other way round:

48:29
'Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of Allâh, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves...'

May Allah guide us. Ameen.

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 01:54 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

I know of Parents in Pakistan who can’t get their daughters married because they don’t have the money & have to take loans etc…

I know of Sisters in the West who are widowed with kids who are in extreme and dire financial difficulties trying to hold on to two jobs and trying to survive…

I know of single Sisters who can’t find suitable husbands because their parents insist on marrying within the same caste, ethnicity etc…

I know of Sisters who are getting beat-up by their drunk husbands almost on a daily basis…

I know of Sisters who are willing to be someone’s 2nd wife just to survive…

All we (as men) have to do is take a stand insist on following the Sunnah & it will go a long way towards solving some of the issues, Insha’Allah.

For the past few months I have processed so many Talaq’s; that me & Maulana are just horrified!

The whole world is turning upside down....

AllahIsGreat
23-07-2007, 03:12 PM
The problem facing muslims is that they don't follow the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah correctly.

For example in Surah An Nisa, Allah swt says: 'And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan*girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice'

I know of men who marry more than one woman but they certainly don't treat them equaly. And there are some men who refuse to divorce their wives. So the sisters have to stay married to him against their will.
Some women are against polygamy, not because they are against the Ayat of Allah but because most brothers don't do it correctly.

And no, I'm not picking on our brothers. Just telling you what I see often.:)

sufireader
23-07-2007, 03:13 PM
Can't a woman divorce a man under Islamic law?

AllahIsGreat
23-07-2007, 03:18 PM
Can't a woman divorce a man under Islamic law?

No, unless there is a good reason. Such as, if he doesn't fulfill the islamic rights and if he mistreats her, doesn't care for her. Then she can go to an Imaam and ask him to carry out the divorce. But she can't just initiate the divorce.

That's as far as my knowledge in the matter goes. And Allah knows best. If I have made a mistake, please feel free to correct me. JazakaAllahu Khairan.

And what I meant by the previous post was that these men don't know what the Islamic Law is, hence why they believe that if they don't say 'I divorce you' to their wife, then she belongs to him forever. Ignorance is the most dangerous thing.

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 04:47 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

A Muslim has the right to issue Talaq (divorce)...

A Muslimah has the right to Khula i.e. she applies to a Shariah council compromising of Islamic Scholars to annul the Nikah and release her from Nikah; the grounds of Khula can be many, but most common which are used by Sisters in my experience are:

• Husband not providing financial support to wife or children
• Physical, psychological or emotional abuse
• A medical condition which stops a husband from being intimate with the wife

Shariah council then invites both husband/wife and investigates the matter & if the grounds are found to be legitimate then the Scholars can issue Khula!

P.S: I have listed the most common ones but I think that there are about 14-15 in the Hanafi Madhab!

sufireader
23-07-2007, 04:54 PM
Can l ask what ahadith that is based on? I don't want a listing of every hadith ever recorded on the subject, just one for each rule would do, so that if someone put the ahadith together, they would come up with that same judgement.

AllahIsGreat
23-07-2007, 04:55 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

A Muslim has the right to issue Talaq (divorce)...

A Muslimah has the right to Khula i.e. she applies to a Shariah council compromising of Islamic Scholars to annul the Nikah and release her from Nikah; the grounds of Khula can be many, but most common which are used by Sisters in my experience are:

• Husband not providing financial support to wife or children
• Physical, psychological or emotional abuse
• A medical condition which stops a husband from being intimate with the wife

Shariah council then invites both husband/wife and investigates the matter & if the grounds are found to be legitimate then the Scholars can issue Khula!

P.S: I have listed the most common ones but I think that there are about 14-15 in the Hanafi Madhab!

Yeah, there was also a situation where the husband became mad and the wife asked an imaam whether her husband could divorce her and he said 'No, he cannot divorce you and even is he says 'I divorce you 3 times' it is not accepted, but you can ask for khula'. Is this correct brother Muadh?

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 05:02 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

Yes brother, you sure can....

A Muslim man's right to divorce is stipulated in the Qur'aan as follows and it is the AGREEMENT of all Muslim Scholars that a woman CANNOT issue Talaq:



[2:231] When you have divorced women, and they have approached (the end of) their waiting periods, then, either retain them with fairness or release them with fairness. Do not retain them with wrongful intent, resulting in cruelty on your part, and whoever does this, actually wrongs himself. Do not take the verses of Allah in jest, and remember the grace of Allah on you and what He has revealed to you of the Book and the wisdom, giving you good counsel thereby, and fear Allah, and be sure that Allah is the One who knows everything.


Example of women seeking Khula are in many Ahadeeth and some of them for your reference are as follows:



Hadith - Musnad Ahmad, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.
The Prophet said, "Those who seek Khula without any reason are hypocrites."

Hadith - Sunan Abu Dawud, Narrated Thoban (RA)
The Prophet said: "If any woman asks her husband for divorce without some strong reason, the odor of Paradise will be forbidden to her."

The Noble Qur'an - 2:229
...Then if you fear that they would not be able to keep the limits ordained by Allâh, then there is no sin on either of them if she gives back (the Mahr or a part of it) for her Al-Khul' (divorce).

Hadith - Sahih Al-Bukharî, Vol. 7, Hadîth No. 197
Narrated Ibn 'Abbâs : The wife of Thabît bin Qais came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Messenger! I do not blame Thabît for defects in his character or his religion, but I, being a Muslim, dislike to behave in an un-Islâmic manner (if I remain with him)." On that Allah's Messenger said (to her), "Will you give back the garden which your husband has given you (as Mahr)?" She said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said to Thabît, "O Thabît! Accept your garden, and divorce her once."



Jazakullah Khairun

P.S: There are many different ways of Talaq & Khula & the case that the brother is referring is where one of either the Husband or the Wife dispute that a Talaq has actually taken place & seek the arbitration of a Muslim Qadhi (Judge); then they have to do lian (i.e. swear on oath) and then the Qadhi decides) and the evidence for that from Sunnah is as follows:




Narrated Sahl bin Sad As-Sa'idi:

Uwaimir Al-'Ajlani came to 'Asim bin Adi Al-Ansari and asked, "O 'Asim! Tell me, if a man sees his wife with another man, should he kill him, whereupon you would kill him in Qisas, or what should he do? O 'Asim! Please ask Allah's Apostle about that." 'Asim asked Allah's Apostle about that. Allah's Apostle disliked that question and considered it disgraceful. What 'Asim heard from Allah's Apostle was hard on him. When he returned to his family, 'Uwaimir came to him and said "O 'Asim! What did Allah's Apostle say to you?" 'Asim said, "You never bring me any good. Allah's Apostle disliked to hear the problem which I asked him about." 'Uwaimir said, "By Allah, I will not leave the matter till I ask him about it." So 'Uwaimir proceeded till he came to Allah's Apostle who was in the midst of the people and said, "O Allah's Apostle! If a man finds with his wife another man, should he kill him, whereupon you would kill him (in Qisas): or otherwise, what should he do?" Allah's Apostle said, "Allah has revealed something concerning the question of you and your wife. Go and bring her here." So they both carried out the judgment of Lian, while I was present among the people (as a witness). When both of them had finished, 'Uwaimir said, "O Allah's Apostle! If I should now keep my wife with me, then I have told a lie". Then he pronounced his decision to divorce her thrice before Allah's Apostle ordered him to do so. (Ibn Shihab said, "That was the tradition for all those who are involved in a case of Lian."




Can l ask what ahadith that is based on? I don't want a listing of every hadith ever recorded on the subject, just one for each rule would do, so that if someone put the ahadith together, they would come up with that same judgement.

sufireader
23-07-2007, 05:06 PM
Many thanks. And where are the original ahadith for this part:


she applies to a Shariah council compromising of Islamic Scholars to annul the Nikah and release her from Nikah

And this part:


Shariah council then invites both husband/wife and investigates the matter & if the grounds are found to be legitimate then the Scholars can issue Khula!

Who decides whether it is legitimate and how do they decide it, according to the known ahadith?

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 05:12 PM
Many thanks. And where are the original ahadith for this part:



And this part:



Who decides whether it is legitimate and how do they decide it, according to the known ahadith?

Asslamo Allaikum,

In the following Hadeeth of Saheeh Bukhari, it is clear that the wife of Thabît bin Qais came to Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) for Khula and he decided....

Since Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is no longer with this we have councils of Scholars who undertake this procedure & it is very similar to a civil divorce in a court i.e. all sides are heard and so on.

I deal with Sisters in these situations and they have to explain the grounds for asking Khula and the husbands have to answer the allegations & so on....Sometimes during the hearing husbands don't show up because the evidence put forth by the Sister is so strong and indefensible, really!


Hadith - Sahih Al-Bukharî, Vol. 7, Hadîth No. 197
Narrated Ibn 'Abbâs : The wife of Thabît bin Qais came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Messenger! I do not blame Thabît for defects in his character or his religion, but I, being a Muslim, dislike to behave in an un-Islâmic manner (if I remain with him)." On that Allah's Messenger said (to her), "Will you give back the garden which your husband has given you (as Mahr)?" She said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said to Thabît, "O Thabît! Accept your garden, and divorce her once."

P.S: Send me an e-mail on the web-site below & I can give you contact details for the Shariah council in UK & you can discuss with the Ulama yourself, InshaAllah.

sufireader
23-07-2007, 05:15 PM
Hi, it's ok, l am not in need of any actual legal decisions in this matter as such.

Do you have appeal systems etc. ?

If so, when do you decide the appeals and counter-appeals have gone on long enough?

Are there any costs involved?

Colonel_Hardstone
23-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

Yes it runs like a legal system but once the Khula is granted; there is no appeal....Just like when the Divorce Decree is granted by a civil court there is no appeal...

It can take up to 4-6 months in a Shariah Council....but understand that this is a last resort for a woman....

Most Sisters ASK for divorce and sometimes husbands comply....

Sisters seek Khula when they believe that the husband is neither fulfilling his spousal duties nor letting them out of marriage (so they can remarry someone else) so basically they are being held hostage in a relationship!



Hi, it's ok, l am not in need of any actual legal decisions in this matter as such.

Do you have appeal systems etc. ?

If so, when do you decide the appeals and counter-appeals have gone on long enough?

Are there any costs involved?

nayyerjigar
24-07-2007, 01:43 AM
Asslamo Allaikum,

I know of Parents in Pakistan who can’t get their daughters married because they don’t have the money & have to take loans etc…

I know of Sisters in the West who are widowed with kids who are in extreme and dire financial difficulties trying to hold on to two jobs and trying to survive…

I know of single Sisters who can’t find suitable husbands because their parents insist on marrying within the same caste, ethnicity etc…

I know of Sisters who are getting beat-up by their drunk husbands almost on a daily basis…

I know of Sisters who are willing to be someone’s 2nd wife just to survive…

All we (as men) have to do is take a stand insist on following the Sunnah & it will go a long way towards solving some of the issues, Insha’Allah.

For the past few months I have processed so many Talaq’s; that me & Maulana are just horrified!

The whole world is turning upside down....


:salam:
May Allah SWT reward you immensely bro. You have been entrusted with one tough job.

amina9183
24-07-2007, 02:32 AM
Asslamo Allaikum,

If you are a man, then take a stand…

1) Tell the Girls’ father that its either Sunnah-way or the highway



that seems a little harsh. firstly, because a lot of sisters(in the west, atleast) that are wearing hijab or have turned towards the deen do not come from families where such an ultamadum would be taken very well. In fact, most parents would go with the "highway" if a brother ever spoke to them in such a way. And after that what happens? The sister is hurt in the end...the parents refuse to let another bearded man anywhere in their house because they are "all batameez" and sister either marries a guy that could care less about the sunnah(because that is all the parents will consider after having such a bad experience with the bearded brother) or...sit around waiting. i dont know. doesnt sound like the best course of action. Not to mention tht sounds like brothers some how think they are doing sisters a favor by marrying them, as the "take it or leave it" attitude is usually adopted when one feels they are doing the other a favor. Forgive me brother, but that one statement seems like in order to follow one sunnah of a simple marriage is breaking so many other sunnahs. Not to mention, it is very unfair to advise ppl on such harshness which could hurt sisters that have nothing to do with the way their parents wish to host the wedding.

I was very adamant on having my wedding totallllly simple. But my mothers happyness genuinely lays in throwing parties and such. There are certain things that make up a personality.....my mom gets some weir dtype of pleasure out of tablecloths matching chair covers that match the brides dress. who can argue with mothers? So I read up on it on sunnipath, and I believe what I read was that if your parents can afford it and it makes them happy, let them do as they please. But you should be sure that there is no haraam stuff going on. In my case....it killllllssss me to see my mom looking at "stages" because all i can think is how the stupid thing will be brought down at the end of the night so its literallllyyyy like throwing that money away at the end of the night, but sometimes, i think you have to just let people be. when nothing haraam is taking place--no intermingling of the sexes, no music, no photography etc and your parents are going against everythign they were raised with(and getting a lot of garbage from their friends as well "what kind of a boring wedding is that?") in order to make it "halal" enough for you, you should cut them some slack. sometimes..u just hav to sit bak and mak ethe niyyah...say allah this money that is being spent is being spent for my parents happyness so accept it as a sadaqah from me and increase the blessings in my marriage on acct of this sadaqah. Listen...parents are parents...you cant change them with ultamadums and fights. the sahaba bought ppl to islam thru their excellent character.their akhlaaq. show your parents some mercy and insha Allah before you know it, THEY will be the ones saying "beta...do we REALLY need an ice sculpture?!" obviously aim for the simple weddign in the masjid, but if your parents can afford it without taking out loans and what not and they are doing things according to the shariah to give you your happyness, what is the harm in letting them have theirs?


anyway. this is my take on it. insha Allah i did not say anything wrong. if so, forgive me.

Colonel_Hardstone
24-07-2007, 09:30 AM
Asslamo Allaikum Sister,

Please feel free to air your opinions & I am not a Maulana so if my opinions conform to the Shariah then take it....

else

Ditch it!

You seem to have missed one line in my post which was, "Polite & courteous firmness goes a long way"

Batameez in Urdu means "Someone with Tameez"
BatTameez or Bat-Tameez Urdu means "Someone without Tameez"
I am sure that you mean the later. :)

In any case I firmly believe that Brothers should take a very determined stand and all the money which is to be wasted on a lavish wedding should be given to the newly wed couple to kick-start heir life, Insha'Allah.

Dear Sister: Things are BAD across the Ummah, trust me & it will take some serious tackling (NOT Harsh but serious)....

Back to your point about parents commenting about bearded brothers; Dawah needs to be done with Akhlaaq & good morals and if the parents can’t see that a brother with a Beard who is so adamant about following the Sunnah will treat their daughter well then they its time to ditch the little princess and look for another family, case closed, Job done!

I am not commenting about the weddings where there is no music, free-mixing, dancing, photography….Masha’Allah if the families are following the Shariah then there is no harm in matching table-clothes, flowers etc. etc. etc.…I am talking about all the other non-sense which is Indian/Pakistani culture (Mehndi, Mayyaon and girls holding the guys hand asking for money, hiding shoes etc. etc. etc.)

Come to one of our family weddings & all this matching business is done, flowers on the tables, stage is decorated etc, yet we have no music, no photography, no free-mixing and Sisters are completely separate and take their Hijabs, Niqaabs off etc and I have no problems with that!



that seems a little harsh. firstly, because a lot of sisters(in the west, atleast) that are wearing hijab or have turned towards the deen do not come from families where such an ultamadum would be taken very well. In fact, most parents would go with the "highway" if a brother ever spoke to them in such a way. And after that what happens? The sister is hurt in the end...the parents refuse to let another bearded man anywhere in their house because they are "all batameez" and sister either marries a guy that could care less about the sunnah(because that is all the parents will consider after having such a bad experience with the bearded brother) or...sit around waiting. i dont know. doesnt sound like the best course of action. Not to mention tht sounds like brothers some how think they are doing sisters a favor by marrying them, as the "take it or leave it" attitude is usually adopted when one feels they are doing the other a favor. Forgive me brother, but that one statement seems like in order to follow one sunnah of a simple marriage is breaking so many other sunnahs. Not to mention, it is very unfair to advise ppl on such harshness which could hurt sisters that have nothing to do with the way their parents wish to host the wedding.

I was very adamant on having my wedding totallllly simple. But my mothers happyness genuinely lays in throwing parties and such. There are certain things that make up a personality.....my mom gets some weir dtype of pleasure out of tablecloths matching chair covers that match the brides dress. who can argue with mothers? So I read up on it on sunnipath, and I believe what I read was that if your parents can afford it and it makes them happy, let them do as they please. But you should be sure that there is no haraam stuff going on. In my case....it killllllssss me to see my mom looking at "stages" because all i can think is how the stupid thing will be brought down at the end of the night so its literallllyyyy like throwing that money away at the end of the night, but sometimes, i think you have to just let people be. when nothing haraam is taking place--no intermingling of the sexes, no music, no photography etc and your parents are going against everythign they were raised with(and getting a lot of garbage from their friends as well "what kind of a boring wedding is that?") in order to make it "halal" enough for you, you should cut them some slack. sometimes..u just hav to sit bak and mak ethe niyyah...say allah this money that is being spent is being spent for my parents happyness so accept it as a sadaqah from me and increase the blessings in my marriage on acct of this sadaqah. Listen...parents are parents...you cant change them with ultamadums and fights. the sahaba bought ppl to islam thru their excellent character.their akhlaaq. show your parents some mercy and insha Allah before you know it, THEY will be the ones saying "beta...do we REALLY need an ice sculpture?!" obviously aim for the simple weddign in the masjid, but if your parents can afford it without taking out loans and what not and they are doing things according to the shariah to give you your happyness, what is the harm in letting them have theirs?


anyway. this is my take on it. insha Allah i did not say anything wrong. if so, forgive me.

abdushakur
24-07-2007, 09:31 AM
There needs to be some balance and common sense employed.
I agree with many of the points of amina9183.
A lot of the older generation enjoy throwing parties and daawats etc. throughout the year. The wedding of their cherished children is just another party for them, albeit a big party.
If you have been blessed with very pious parents who want a simple nikah then alhamdulillah, go ahead. But if your parents are more of the 'party type' then you have to try to strike a balance with them by employing wisdom. The last thing you want to do is make demands of your respected parents and make a happy occasion into a sour one.
If they want to invite 100's or 1000's of people to a hall and do the hall up at their expense then who cares. Your intention is pure so inshallah you will not be accountable for that. All you are tasked with is to gently advise them. The least you can do though is politely but firmly decline any free-mixing of the attendees, non-halal music, unrestricted photography etc.
Often times youngsters in their zeal to do things in the ‘perfect’ way set their sights on a hadith teaching for example, and blinker themselves either side from the reality of their own situation. You must work with your family towards the good teachings in hadith and not forge ahead along with inflexible demands and leave them with their feelings and hopes in tatters behind you.

I myself have attended halal 'party type' weddings where there is strict segregation, with the bride dressed up in her best clothes in the ladies hall. No photography or roving camera-guys and only anasheed on the speaker system. Good food is provided and everyone enjoys themselves in the halal way.
I've seen these types of wedding act as a bridge between the non-practising muslims and their understanding of deen and how to employ its principles in everyday life.

Just be aware of the times and the people you are living with.

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 10:18 AM
:salam:

I disagree with the brothers above post. The thing is in such a time and age where marriage has become so difficult those who able to marry should make it a simple affair. What happens is that even in the effort of "striking a balance" we ourselves contribute to the fitna.

If brother X has his Nikah done and the pomp and show has cost his a small fortune, this then sets a precedent in the community. If you go to the Masjid for salah etc and people regard you as a religious person having such a Nikah is even more dangerous.

It raises the "standard cost" of the Nikah even higher and thus affects those singles who want to get married i.e. Person Y is to get married soon. He wants his to be very simple and he also is of a religious type. What happens now is that his parents and family (and he has waswas himself) that "look at person X, they hired a car and hall and had loads of food! He's a Maulana. You think your more pious than a Maulana or a certain "pious" member of the community?!"

The same goes for sisters.

You understand what I am trying to say? We may not know it, but our behavior affects other peoples behavior and choices.

abdushakur
24-07-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm not advocating pomp and show. That is haram.

What i am saying, to clarify, is that I have no problems with inviting all your friends and family (which could number 100's), having nice food which catering companies provide (rather than get all your aunties to slave over the cookers) and buying new clothes (like lengha for the bride and sherwani for the groom).
Also, if your parents are adamant that they want to spend all this money on the wedding/walima and not give it to you for subsequent living expenses, then so be it. Actually it doesn't cost that much to hire a hall and provide food.

What's wrong with that? :D

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 10:59 AM
As Salaam Alaykum.

I have to say I agree with many of the points of Brother Abdus shakur and Sister Ameena. As long as there is no Haraam activity or Customs introduced into
the Wedding and you dont have to take out massive loans. What is wrong with
Inviting all your family and friends.

cus on the flipside what will happen is your Parents will face taunt and ridicule forever , from friends and relatives for being stingy on their son or Daughters wedding. They will then be angry with you for subjecting them to constant ridicule from others.

Also I read a story on one of the blogs I cant remember which one. A Certain Scholar was getting his daughter married, so what he did is, he had a low key reception but he purchased Some Land for his daughter, so that way no one could accuse him of being stingy. The piece of land would be more valuable in helping secure his daughters future she would derive benefit from it in the longterm.


so this issue is not all black and white.

abdushakur
24-07-2007, 11:08 AM
What is wrong with
Inviting all your family and friends.

cus on the flipside what will happen is your Parents will face taunt and ridicule forever , from friends and relatives for being stingy on their son or Daughters wedding. They will then be angry with you for subjecting them to constant ridicule from others.
Just to further clarify my position :)
i would say it would fine to invite loads of people if the intention is good.
I.e. invite all the people who have invited you to their weddings in the past as this is general courtesy and returning of good favour. Invite all your relatives as it is sunnah to uphold ties of kinship. Invite all your friends in the community because you are announcing an event which should be announced and is a joyous occasion in any case.

So you see, just by inviting the above, you may increase the numbers significantly.

I do not however advocate doing things just because if you did not do them certain people in the community may object or complain. People like that do not deserve to be pandered to.

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 12:38 PM
:salam:



All praise is due to Allah. We praise Him. We seek His assistance and forgiveness. We believe in Him and place our trust in Him.
We seek refuge in Allah from the mischief of our souls and our bad actions.
He whom Allah guides no one can mislead,
and he whom Allah misleads,
no one can guide.
We bear testimony that there is no deity except Allah.
He is alone and has no partner and we bear testimony that
our leader and master Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger.
O Allah, shower your everlasting peace and blessings
on him and on his descendants and his companions.
Almighty Allah says in the Holy Qur’an:
“O Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from him He created his wife (Eve), and from them He created many men and women. Fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (kinship). Surely, Allah ever watches over you.” (4:1)
“O you who believe! Fear Allah as He should be
feared. And die not except in the state of
Islam (as Muslims).” (3:102)
“O you who believe! Keep your duty to Allah and fear him, and speak (always) the truth. He will direct you to do righteous good deeds and will forgive you your sins. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger he has indeed achieved a great achievement.” (34:70-71)
The Holy Prophet Peace be upon him said:
“Marry such women as are affectionate, child producing for I wish to
outnumber the nations through you.”
(Abu Dawood & Nasai)
“Nikah is my Sunnah.” (Ibn Majah)
“Whosoever turns away from my Sunnah is not of me.” (Bukhari)

Friends! On this auspicious occasion of Nikah, I pray to Almighty Allah that He may instil Muhabbat (love and affection) between the married couple, that through this bond of marriage, pious and righteous children are born, and also that Muhabbat and Ulfat (loving bond) is created between the families of the married couple. In addition, I invoke unto Almighty Allah that He may find for all our young boys and girls pious and suitable partners (Ameen).This Nikah is a noble Sunnat of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). Simplicity would be the hallmark of every Nikah performed by the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). We are instructed in the Hadith that when a suitable partner is found for a girl, then haste should be made in performing the Nikah. A major reason for the marked increase in the number of unmarried boys and girls in present-day society stems mainly from neglecting the sound advice given in this Hadith. Nowadays the Nikah is delayed in spite of having found a suitable partner for ones son or daughter. For the sake of personal convenience, like going on a holiday or waiting for the arrival of some guest, or some other programme, we unnecessarily delay the marriage.

I am conscious that this moment is one of joy and happiness. I do not want to dampen it. But I must also digress a bit from the main topic of marriage and express the anguish of my heart at the suffering of fellow Muslims, while we continue to indulge in comforts and luxuries. As you know, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) and his Companions May Allah be pleased with them did not avail of luxuries despite having the opportunity to do so; instead, they made rigorous Mujahadah (endeavour). By the Barakah (blessings) of their Mujahadah each Companion became a great warrior, who strove and persevered.

When we look inward into our own lives it reveals quite the opposite. We have become so attached to worldly comforts and luxuries that it has, indeed, become difficult for us to discharge our own necessities without relying on others. Over indulgence in ease and comforts is also a significant reason for our misfortune and downfall. If only we realized the true concept of Islamic brotherhood then to continue in extravagant celebrations would really hit the raw inner of our consciousness. Presently, throughout the world, hundreds and thousands of fellow Muslims are suffering at the hands of non Muslims. So many of them are held captives by the enemies of Allah, and the respect and dignity of so many others is being looted, and above all, our brothers and sisters are helpless with no one to confront the perpetrators of their misery. In this dire situation, our brothers and sisters are really in need of every sip of water, every piece of grain and every single penny. Oh friends, is this really a time to indulge in extravagant celebrations, merrymaking and rejoicing? This is surely against the trend of Islamic brotherhood, and I say, it is also against humanity! When you see the abundant favours of Allah so freely granted - especially when you sit to eat - then your eyes should be filled with tears. At the same time, reflect on the plight and suffering borne by Muslims in Bosnia, Somalia, Philippines, Burma and so many other places. Muslims whose situation is most distressing. Despite what prevails before our eyes, are we going to be like the ostrich with its head in the sand?

In this present era, the warning bells of danger to our Faith can be heard ringing aloud. Although the situation is better here (as compared to that in other countries) but we cannot be complacent. The tide of moral and religious degeneration is reigning down on us from all sides. We regularly hear incidents of how our progeny is being exposed to the ills prevalent in this society. We must, therefore, be aware of the dangers and maintain a vigilant eye. We should reflect on what is happening and take a firm grasp of the declining moral and religious situation in this society.

In spite of hearing the plight and misery of Muslims, our feelings seem to remain static, and we are largely unresponsive to their plight. We should try to alter this kind of outlook. Most importantly, we should try and generate a genuine feeling for our Muslim brothers and sisters. We should consider their suffering as our own. We should not behave in apathetic manner, unaware of what is happening to them. Let us conduct ourselves honourably, sharing their woes and grief wherever they may be in the world. Their suffering, displacement and slaughter should be felt by all of us.

I have deliberately shed light on this subject because, nowadays, our wedding functions have become such that vast sums of money are spent and this suggests a kind of indifference to the suffering of Muslim at large. I, for one, do not condone this kind of attitude. On occasions like this, I only wish that greater accountability would be taken. As I have already explained, there are so many Muslims throughout the world in need, so many oppressed, so many destitute and so many in need of every grain, yet our inner eyes remain closed. As Hazrat Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria Saheb Rahmatullahi alai once wrote to his daughter, saying, “Oh daughter! When we depart from this world, our eyes will really open. Only then will we realize!”

Thus, we will only truly realize the extent of our self-deception once we have left this transitory world. How we deceived our own selves. Only then will we truly appreciate the significance of assisting the needy and helpless Muslims. If we are not able to do anything else, then, at least we should develop a sincere concern for our fellow Muslims and pray for them. Even this will not be overlooked by Almighty Allah, who will, Inshallah, accord us with much blessing and reward.

I now return to the subject of my initial discussion, that Nikah is a noble Sunnat of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). This sublime act is such that it cannot accommodate any other custom; simplicity, as I explained at the outset, is its hallmark. As such, there is no need for a large assembly or congregation for its commemoration.

I will now briefly mention the nature of simplicity observed in weddings conducted at the time of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). Once the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) noticed a stain of Itr (perfume) on the garment of one of his Companion, Hazrat Jabir ibn Abdullah May Allah be pleased with him. Although use of Itr was Sunnat, it would generally be applied only for special occasions like a wedding, or on significant days like Friday and Eid. Seeing the blot, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) enquired of Hazrat Jabir ibn Abdullah May Allah be pleased with him: “Have you married?” He replied, “Yes.” The Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) further asked, “Whom did you marry, a virgin or a widow?” He replied, “A widow.” The Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) said, “Why did you not choose a virgin, that you might play with her and she might play with you? I see you as a young man.” Hazrat Jabir ibn AbdullahMay Allah be pleased with him replied most gracefully, saying: “O Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him), my father was martyred in the battle of Uhad. He left behind nine small sisters. Had I married a virgin then she would have become the tenth. That is why I have married a widow, so that with her age and experience she could provide upbringing and training for my sisters.”

From this incident we can deduce that despite the presence of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) in Madina Munawwarah, there was no question of delaying the Nikah to the extent of even informing let alone inviting him.

Thus, in the time of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him), whenever a suitable partner was found for a boy or girl, the Nikah would be conducted without delay. It would not be treated as something so significant as to require the attention or approval of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). For this reason Hazrat Shaikh Rahmatullahi alai used to say, “I can’t understand all these formalities for Nikah, because Nikah is an Ibadat (act of worship). When someone intends to perform two Rakats of Salat then must he print posters and send everyone cards asking them to assemble in the Jame Masjid before performing the two Rakats?” What a beautiful explanation Hazrat Shaikh provided. Since Nikah is also an Ibadat, then what is the need to print cards and gather a large congregation?

Hazrat himself practised what he preached. He married two of his daughters with Hazrat Jee Maulana Yusuf Saheb and Hazrat Jee Maulana Inamul Hasan Saheb respectively. The occasion of their marriage coincided with the annual graduation ceremony at Mazahirul Uloom, Saharanpur. Both prospective son-in-laws were to graduate. Hazrat, prior to leaving for the graduation ceremony, went home and called out that I propose to wed Maulana Yusuf with such a daughter and Maulana Inamul Hasan with such a daughter, naming each daughter. This was the only type of announcement made in advance of the wedding.

Hazrat Maulana Ihtishamul Haq Saheb, who happened to be the maternal uncle of the daughters and also the brother-in-law of Hazrat Shaikh, as well as being a member of the household, became upset at not being consulted about the marriage. He protested saying that he was the maternal uncle of the girls, and as such, he should at least have been consulted prior to their Nikah. However, Hazrat’s stance remained the same. As Nikah is an Ibadat what is the need to notify everyone. The participants of the marriage were informed and that was sufficient.

On the contrary, we have created so many unnecessary formalities that if perchance the wedding feast is not held on the day of the wedding, we make full amends by holding a large Walimah (a meal after consummating the marriage) the following day.

The practise of Walimah was also celebrated by the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) but not in the same manner in which we are accustomed to. When Khaiber was conquered, among the prisoners of war included Hazrat Safiyyah May Allah be pleased with her, the daughter of a Jewish chief. Hazrat Dihya Qalbi May Allah be pleased with him requested the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) for a maid. The Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) said, “Go and take any slave girl.” He took Hazrat Safiyya May Allah be pleased with her. At this, the other Sahabah May Allah be pleased with them approached the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) and said: “O, Prophet of Allah! Banu Nazir and Banu Quraizah (the Jewish tribes of Madinah) will feel offended to see the daughter of a Jewish chief working as a maid. We therefore suggest that she is only suitable for you.” The Prophet called Dihya and said, “Take any seven slave girls but leave her (i.e. Safiyya).” The Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) then freed her from slavery and married her. In the tradition reported in Sahih Al-Bukhari, we are further told that they had left Khaiber and on the way, Umme Sulaim dressed her for marriage and at night she sent her as a bride. The following day Walimah feast was arranged with whatever was available.

The point I really want to elicit from this story is the manner in which the Walimah was organized. It was such a simple affair. The Holy Prophet asked his companions to bring their own food. He spread out an eating mat and some brought dates and others cooking butter. This was the manner in which the Walimah of Allah’s Messenger was
celebrated.

Friends! The teachings of our religion, as exemplified by the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him), impress upon us simplicity. We need to change our approach and attitude to life and adopt these simple and noble practises.

I again reiterate that there is need for us to change our present outlook. We should replace our indifference and apathy to the suffering borne by fellow Muslims and replace it with a genuine feeling of love and consideration. Only then will we merit the pity of Allah. If we are sincere Muslims then let us mirror the loss sustained by our brothers and sisters. Such should be our grief that it shows on our faces, cause feelings of pain and revulsion in our hearts and makes sour the food and drink we consume. This should be a natural reaction to hearing any kind of tragedy befalling Muslims. Alas, there is a great need to re-establish true Islamic brotherhood in this day and age.

In the end, I pray to Almighty Allah that He grants us all the Tawfiq (strength and ability) to appreciate the delicate age we live in and that He fully rectifies us in all respects (Ameen).

And our last call is that all praise be to the Lord of the
worlds and peace and blessings be upon the Master of
the Messengers, his descendants and his companions.

Shaykh Yusuf Motala

(Courtesy of Inter-Islam.org)

nayyerjigar
24-07-2007, 03:52 PM
:salam:

Excellent points bro AbdusShakur (as always :)) Yeah its sometimes hard to explain these concepts to elders that islam is a complete way of life and not just the 5 prayers, ramadan, haj, etc. So if a person wants to do a wedding according to the Sunnah 100% and then live a life according to the Sunnah 100% then by all means he should find a sister whose family would understand and support him fully. Otherwise its oppression to the girl and her family IMHO.

But understanding the thinking of elders is key I think and people need to sometimes step into their shoes and see where they are coming from. But at the back of the mind (because mind is free) one should hold some of these customs and expectations as silly and somewhat immodest. Maybe in the next generation things could be different.

Recently there was a wedding in which the baraat was delayed for 2-3 hours because the groom's limo was late...:D Somebody should have interviewd the poor folks at the wedding hall about their feelings like in those desi channels "Aap ka is rasam kay barey mein kya khiyal hai?" (whats your take on this custom? (groom coming in the limo))

amina9183
24-07-2007, 05:35 PM
Back to your point about parents commenting about bearded brothers; Dawah needs to be done with Akhlaaq & good morals and if the parents can’t see that a brother with a Beard who is so adamant about following the Sunnah will treat their daughter well then they its time to ditch the little princess and look for another family, case closed, Job done!



forgive me for misunderstanding yoru previous post--i guess we are on the same page when it comes to weddings. but i will not rest until you change your mind about the above. i dont know if youre married yet or not, but if you are not you will be missing out on some of the most pious sisters by adopting that attitude. No matter what we do, we can not compare to the sahaba(ra) They were the people that struggled and fought their environment for their Islam. The story of Musaub ibn Umair(ra)--his mother tied him to a chair so that he could not pray, but he was so passionate and so in love with Islam that he even escaped those ropes and those gaurds in order to practice. And then look at us....we sit on our soft couches when we hear adhaan and decide well pray in 5 minutes.

The comparison of the sahaba(islam is not established yet) vs. us(islam is established) is like the comparison of the sister in the house where the sunnah is not priority(islam not properly established) vs the house where it is(islam is established). My parents...alhamdulillah...I put hijab and abayah on and they never even flinched. My family is very "liberal" and we would hear from all ends about how I am so "extreme" but my parents didnt mind it. If I refused to go to my cousins mayoun, they let me stay home. This is not the case with all sisters. I know sisters that have to fight every single day they leave their house to leave with a hijab on. Are you going to argue the piety and dedication that sister has to Islam over the sister who faces no opposition and in fact is made to do those same things? Is their fight for the deen equal? The people(brothers and sisters) that face opposition in their life have to spend more brain power and more time/dedication to doing what they know needs to be done. The fire,passion and willingness to struggle to please Allah that I have seen in the sisters who are told "dont you dare enter my house with that thing on your head" I have neverrr seen in any daughter of a mufti. Not to cut down the children of muftis, God forbid. They are amazing mashallah. But what I mean to say is they were raised with it..it is given to them on a silver platter. You cant compare a man that was raised a millionaire and then inherited it to the man that was homeless and earned that million on his own. If someone bought both infront of me and I would always chose the one that earned it on his own, hands down. Just because someones parents dont understand doesnt mean she is a "princess"----she probably gives up more and struggles against more on a day to day basis than most of us.

So therefore brother...do not use parents as a gauge. I have seen entire families turn to the deen because the older son did, but I have never seen entire families change because the daughter did. Muslims need dawah too. So instead of going to the house where you will find it ocmfortable because the father agrees with everything you say, why not use your influence in homes where they need it? I have examples infront of me. My own father, for one. After a few meetings with my in-laws, their influence was such on him that he sold a part of his business which was haraam. I had spent YEARS fighting with him over it and he never listened. He got a bearded son-in-law...and bam. My best friends parents...they wouldnt even let her wear hijab to parties. They would make her take dubatta and wearing an abayah was out of the question. She married a fist-legnth bearded brother(who had manyyyyyyy disagreements with the parents during the weddign planning process) and guess what? Within 6 months of that marriage(the parents got their way, btw. It wasnt even separated) my friends mother wears hijab and her father grew a beard. Her mom wants to send their youngest daughter to madrassah to ocmplete the alima course. For some reason, men have the ability to change families--even as son-in-law. He could have left that "princess" as soon as he faced opposition from parents regarding segregation and whatnot, but guess what? That princess wears niqaab now. And that princess is in her second year of the alima course--while she is full time at university and handles the house. She is used to struggling for the deen and so she continues to....


Insha Allah this makes sense to you. I have SO many friends in this situation...andit is so frustrating to see that the reason they are having problems getting married is because brothers have this mindset. If you exercise patience and are not so rigid, insha Allah you would have greater success because you would get the sawaab of changing those GENERATIONS of your wifes family. Not only that, but you will know for certain that the girl you are marrying is willing and ready to struggle for the sake of Allah, insha Allah.

Colonel_Hardstone
24-07-2007, 06:24 PM
Asslamo Allaikum Sister,

I am impressed with the time and effort that you are putting behind your points, it may be said I aware of some of the issues that you are explaining and discussing so passionately.

My marital status or aspirations are irrelevant to the point that I am trying to make.

Let me make things simple for you because I deal with this all the time.

A proposal is sent to a Sisters parents and the brother is a nice guy, professional, employed, no strings attached and parents accept the proposal.

Wedding date is decided and arrangements are being made; at this point the brother SHOULD put his foot down (politely) & refuse to adhere to “Stupid Hindu” culture…

No parent in right mind would let go of a good Rishta and break off just because the guy is refusing to allow “Stupid Hindu” culture…

I challenge anyone to pull this one!

Trust me!

You are perhaps thinking I am asking for the guy to walk in first meeting and start throwing his weight around….NO NO NO; that’s foolish

Build a relationship with the family, the elders and parents and THEN blackmail (if you wanna call it that!)

Us guys with beards and Sisters with Hijab already have a bad reputation (Wahabi, extremists, Taliban etc…yes I have heard them all before!)

I know of a father who have publicly opposed their son-in-laws (NAK cat gai in Urdu, you know what I mean!) and then came & cried to them in privacy about how much money was saved and how they are grateful to him for NOT asking for Jaheez & stuff!

Trust me! There is a way of doing this and getting away with it smelling like roses (for all sides)…you need tactics and a plan….

You are thinking that I am some kind of extremist who is going to spoil it for some Sister whos family are not practising….NO NO NO; that’s foolish

Easy and cool does it Sis!:cheesygri

I am ASKING for Brothers/Sisters to make a stand for the Sunnah, Allah (SWT) will teach you the how part; but without taking a stand (Intention) you won't get anywhere!


forgive me for misunderstanding yoru previous post--i guess we are on the same page when it comes to weddings. but i will not rest until you change your mind about the above. i dont know if youre married yet or not, but if you are not you will be missing out on some of the most pious sisters by adopting that attitude. No matter what we do, we can not compare to the sahaba(ra) They were the people that struggled and fought their environment for their Islam. The story of Musaub ibn Umair(ra)--his mother tied him to a chair so that he could not pray, but he was so passionate and so in love with Islam that he even escaped those ropes and those gaurds in order to practice. And then look at us....we sit on our soft couches when we hear adhaan and decide well pray in 5 minutes.

The comparison of the sahaba(islam is not established yet) vs. us(islam is established) is like the comparison of the sister in the house where the sunnah is not priority(islam not properly established) vs the house where it is(islam is established). My parents...alhamdulillah...I put hijab and abayah on and they never even flinched. My family is very "liberal" and we would hear from all ends about how I am so "extreme" but my parents didnt mind it. If I refused to go to my cousins mayoun, they let me stay home. This is not the case with all sisters. I know sisters that have to fight every single day they leave their house to leave with a hijab on. Are you going to argue the piety and dedication that sister has to Islam over the sister who faces no opposition and in fact is made to do those same things? Is their fight for the deen equal? The people(brothers and sisters) that face opposition in their life have to spend more brain power and more time/dedication to doing what they know needs to be done. The fire,passion and willingness to struggle to please Allah that I have seen in the sisters who are told "dont you dare enter my house with that thing on your head" I have neverrr seen in any daughter of a mufti. Not to cut down the children of muftis, God forbid. They are amazing mashallah. But what I mean to say is they were raised with it..it is given to them on a silver platter. You cant compare a man that was raised a millionaire and then inherited it to the man that was homeless and earned that million on his own. If someone bought both infront of me and I would always chose the one that earned it on his own, hands down. Just because someones parents dont understand doesnt mean she is a "princess"----she probably gives up more and struggles against more on a day to day basis than most of us.

So therefore brother...do not use parents as a gauge. I have seen entire families turn to the deen because the older son did, but I have never seen entire families change because the daughter did. Muslims need dawah too. So instead of going to the house where you will find it ocmfortable because the father agrees with everything you say, why not use your influence in homes where they need it? I have examples infront of me. My own father, for one. After a few meetings with my in-laws, their influence was such on him that he sold a part of his business which was haraam. I had spent YEARS fighting with him over it and he never listened. He got a bearded son-in-law...and bam. My best friends parents...they wouldnt even let her wear hijab to parties. They would make her take dubatta and wearing an abayah was out of the question. She married a fist-legnth bearded brother(who had manyyyyyyy disagreements with the parents during the weddign planning process) and guess what? Within 6 months of that marriage(the parents got their way, btw. It wasnt even separated) my friends mother wears hijab and her father grew a beard. Her mom wants to send their youngest daughter to madrassah to ocmplete the alima course. For some reason, men have the ability to change families--even as son-in-law. He could have left that "princess" as soon as he faced opposition from parents regarding segregation and whatnot, but guess what? That princess wears niqaab now. And that princess is in her second year of the alima course--while she is full time at university and handles the house. She is used to struggling for the deen and so she continues to....


Insha Allah this makes sense to you. I have SO many friends in this situation...andit is so frustrating to see that the reason they are having problems getting married is because brothers have this mindset. If you exercise patience and are not so rigid, insha Allah you would have greater success because you would get the sawaab of changing those GENERATIONS of your wifes family. Not only that, but you will know for certain that the girl you are marrying is willing and ready to struggle for the sake of Allah, insha Allah.

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 06:43 PM
Salaams

why not set up a stage with speakers and a sound system and instead of inviting musicians or including strange hindu traditions.

Invite some knowledge Maulana sahibs to give all the relatives a lecture on what the sunnah is.

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 06:49 PM
Salaams

why not set up a stage with speakers and a sound system and instead of inviting musicians or including strange hindu traditions.

Invite some knowledge Maulana sahibs to give all the relatives a lecture on what the sunnah is.


Brother with respect - thats a joke.

How about we act on the sunnah instead of talking about it.

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 06:51 PM
salaams

Why is that a joke? why dont we make an effort to teach the people Sunnah?

In my ancestral village people dont know what a sunnah wedding is supposed to be like.

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 06:54 PM
:salam:

Action is the best da'wah. Talk is cheap.

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 06:57 PM
Salaams

Action is the best dawah when people are aware what your action is according to.

Alot of these people think there strange customs are in accordance with sunnah

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 07:06 PM
:salam:

Today your parents compromise your acting on the sunnah, tomorrow your wife will and the next day your children will. Like this you will never act upon the sunnah.

Everyone wants to live for Islam, few are the ones who want to die for Islam. Sometimes you have to make that hard call.

We in our actions are explaining away the hadith. The most blessed Nikah is the one in which least exspenses are occured

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 07:17 PM
Salaams

yeah but why are you against teaching ignorant people what the sunnah is?

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 07:20 PM
No.

nayyerjigar
24-07-2007, 07:20 PM
:salam:

Today your parents compromise your acting on the sunnah, tomorrow your wife will and the next day your children will. Like this you will never act upon the sunnah.

Everyone wants to live for Islam, few are the ones who want to die for Islam. Sometimes you have to make that hard call.


:salam: bro,

You have to realize everyone's circumstances and family dynamics are different and you cant generalize in that fashion. What would you do if one had parents who will just not understand the need to follow the Sunnah and fight the Jahilliyah tide and trends? In this situation is better to compromise a bit with them otherwise they might even say or do things which are unislamic or haram and that might lead to even a greater munkar (evil).

my 2 cents worth...

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 07:20 PM
Also I am not talking about spending a lot of expenses what I am talking about is having a wedding were least expense is spent is in accordance with the Sunnah.

but were you also give the ignorant some dawah at the walimah.

Colonel_Hardstone
24-07-2007, 07:25 PM
Asslamo Allaikum,

One of the Maulanas I know who is a few younger then me has a cracking sense of humour and he is hard against "Stupid Hindu Customs"; graduate of Darul-uloom Bury and Mureed of Hazrat Maulana Yusuf Motala (DB)...

Get someone like him & people will love it!

But make the intention to TAKE A STAND FOR THE SUNNAH...

As Hakeem Akhtar Saheb (DB) says, "Mohabbat tujh ko Aadaab kudh Sekha day gee" (Love of Allah (SWT) will teach you Adab for the love of Allah (SWT), itself"

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 07:27 PM
As salaam alaykum.

Jazak Allah thats what I was talking about,,Brother Muadh.

Abdul Hayy
24-07-2007, 07:45 PM
:salam:

Read what Maulana Hakeem Akhtar has said about weddings in the first post of this thread and what Maulana Yusuf Motala has to say also of which I have quoted in this thread earlier.

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 07:54 PM
Salaams

first of all i dont disagree with Hazrat Hakeem Akhtar Sahib (db) I have a copy of Hazrat Zakariyah (Ra) biography I am familiar with the story.

If you also take a look at the date when this article was posted on Sunni Forum it was posted by A sister In July 2005,( May Allah reward her abundantly for it) I was browsing through the archives, I really liked the article and was surprised that no body had responded to it, I felt strongly that this issue should be debated. Also If you look on the first page i have cited the example of Hazrat Abu Bakr as Siddiq (ra) in response to his father.

I think we both agree with each other it is just perhaps we have misunderstood each other.

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 10:34 PM
Salaams.

Indeed you are right Sister we have taken these customs from every were, before
it was just hindu customs, and Now it is also western customs like exchanging rings and the like. Not married Yet but Insha'allah sometime in the future. I really liked this article when I saw it It reminded me of a very long discussion I had with my parents on these issues. Last year.

My Mum wants her little boy to have the Biggest wedding in the whole wide world........ lol

alfatiha
24-07-2007, 10:45 PM
My Mum wants her little boy to have the Biggest wedding in the whole wide world........ lol

:salam: it's true. being the youngest, all of my siblings are married and bore children and only me left. therefore they have so much surplus in everybody's bank accounts but if they want to, I would have to say no and say that if they want to contribute etc, it's better if they give the money for other stuff (grandkid's educations, miskins, hajj, etc)

so in UK, do you guys do wedding in the house (or neighborhood), masjid, or hotel generally?

Julaybib
24-07-2007, 10:53 PM
Salaams

well the community from Subcontinent have either hire wedding halls run by other
people from asia, or we normally rent the halls in a high school.In the uk.

Silver Sparrow
25-07-2007, 05:40 PM
If you also take a look at the date when this article was posted on Sunni Forum it was posted by A sister In July 2005,( May Allah reward her abundantly for it):) Jazakallah brother, may Allah reward you also for bringing it to the fore again.

I think actually some people are confusing the issue here. This part of the article is refering to the nikah. I don't understand where the talk about 'what's the definition of extravagance' comes from. The hadith he cites says:

The most blessed Nikah is the one in which least expenses are occuredIt seems very obvious to me: the less you spend on the nikah, the more barkat you get (inshallah).

As for wedding parties, where does this concept come from? The walimah feast is separate from the nikah. Why do the bride's family insist on holding a feast for, sometimes thousands of guests? (Please see SP's guidance on nikah:
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2123&CATE=167)
and the walimah is also mentioned in the original article, viz:

If a Walimah has to take place then it too should be done very simply. It is not Wajib to make Walimah inviting hundreds of people and keeping it in a hall. Invite a few needy people and feed them, the sunnah of Walimah will be achieved. Feed the walimah guests in your house, you won't need to hire a hall for which you have to pay hundreds.

Alhamdulillah, I'm lucky in this situation that my parents respect my wish to have a very simple wedding. They still have this thing about 'sharam and ijjat', but I think they realise, it would be more sharam and ijjat if the bride goes AWOL in protest :)

ETA: this is the original article that this section was from:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6903&

Julaybib
25-07-2007, 06:03 PM
Salaams

Jazak Allah for clarifying that and for the link I think perhaps I am more confused than most.

Certainly in some parts of the subcontinent, we have two feasts, one day from the brides family and the following day from the mans family.


Good way of dealing with the issue of sharm and ijjat.

Abdul Hayy
25-07-2007, 06:57 PM
:salam:

For the Nikah there are only two things which have to be arranged.

1. Mahr
2. Walimah

Both are on the grooms head. The grooms family arrange the Walimah. This should be as simple as possible.

There is no cost to the girls family at all. The girls family or girl doesnt pay a penny. The Nikah is preferably held in the Masjid and the next day Walimah simple as that.

An 'Alim most of the time conducts the Nikah in the Masjid. That would be time when he could offer a few words of advice. The Nikah takes less than 2 minitues and everybody then goes home or whatever.

Julaybib
25-07-2007, 07:01 PM
As Salaam alaykum.

Jazak allah brother Abdul Hayy, certainly this is just another one of the strange hindu customs we have adapted were the brides family is almost left bankrupt,
certainly it is difficult for a lot of poor people due to these customs.

alfatiha
28-07-2007, 04:20 AM
:salam:

The Fiqh of Walima (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2792&CATE=10)

Julaybib
28-07-2007, 05:52 AM
Salaams.

Jazak Allah Brother.