A strange amulet in Bahishti Zewar

[dr.ati]

:salam:

There is a strange "Tawee'z" found in Bahishti Zaiwar of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi which he has prescribed for " casting out the effects of Magic" . The names of Pheron , Qaroon etc have been mentioned on the "Tawee'z". Can somebody explain it in the light of Quran and Hadith? The "tawee'z" can be found on page 90 , 9th part of Bahishti Zaiwar.

http://islamiyat.tk/mazameen/Deobandiat/files/1.2.JPG

[meelash]

السلام عليكم,

I don't know the answer to your question, buy FYI, your red box leaves out the line beneath which is also part of it. It's something in persian, which I don't understand, but it starts out "curse upon them". The names on the first line which are not clear are Fir'aun, Qaaroon, Haamaan, Shaddaad, Nimrood, Iblees.

If anyone is looking for it, it can be found in the "Supplement to Part 9" of Urdu Bahishti Zewar. The topic is the personal amaliyaat of Hadrat Thanvi :rahim: Since it's the supplement, this section may not be in all versions.

[FususAlHikam]

Doctor sahab i told you go do chillah at his grave maybe he will appear in ur dream and tell you why he wrote this taweez. You are a great manipulator of words and doctor of creating doubt.

[not known]

:salam:

I think this dr.ati guy is being mis"guided" by some one else. Like they show him something and he jumps directly here without even reading what is written before and after.

[dr.ati]

we really don't know who is being mis-guided, but if someone has a doubt on any islamic issue or would like to know the authenticity we cannot be aggressive in replying just to get rid of that issue instead we need to reply it with authenticity and that is the intellectual and honest way to clear someones doubt. but anyway br. @dr.ati has a point here, he needs to know the authenticity.

:jazak:

The Question i asked was much simple and could easily be answered if such amulets had any basis in Quran and Hadiths. In the evolved psychology of Muslims ,its harder to Question as every question is adressed as an objection from a certain school of thought.


:salam:

There is a strange "Tawee'z" found in Bahishti Zaiwar of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi which he has prescribed for " casting out the effects of Magic" . The names of Pheron , Qaroon etc have been mentioned on the "Tawee'z". Can somebody explain it in the light of Quran and Hadith? The "tawee'z" can be found on page 90 , 9th part of Bahishti Zaiwar.

[Taliban1]

:salam:

There is a strange "Tawee'z" found in Bahishti Zaiwar of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi which he has prescribed for " casting out the effects of Magic" . The names of Pheron , Qaroon etc have been mentioned on the "Tawee'z". Can somebody explain it in the light of Quran and Hadith? The "tawee'z" can be found on page 90 , 9th part of Bahishti Zaiwar.




:jazak:

The Question i asked was much simple and could easily be answered if such amulets had any basis in Quran and Hadiths. In the evolved psychology of Muslims ,its harder to Question as every question is adressed as an objection from a certain school of thought.

Theres no answer for you and no need to answer. Please don't waste your time in getting answers for such things. My advice to you is not to read deobandi books. You would save yourself alot of headache. And stop doing their islah. Please go and give dawah to those who don't even read Salah...

JazakALlah

[FususAlHikam]

we really don't know who is being mis-guided, but if someone has a doubt on any islamic issue or would like to know the authenticity we cannot be aggressive in replying just to get rid of that issue instead we need to reply it with authenticity and that is the intellectual and honest way to clear someones doubt. but anyway br. @dr.ati has a point here, he needs to know the authenticity.

please refer to TARIQAH ARE BID'A thread and see for yourself what authentic questions and answers are on there.

Here again, the issue is misrepresented. Major facts are left out, only those things are mentioned which would shock a common Muslim. I have no doubt that this is an attempt to break people from Ulama.

The question is, prove from Quran and Hadith that the taweez Moulana Thanvi (ra) has posted here is AGAINST Quran and Hadith. Can you prove it is against Quran and Hadith?

Also, please list the fuqaha who have given fatwa against these taweezaat of Moulana Thanvi (ra), especially this particular taweez.

It does not contain any trace of shirk - whats wrong with it?

Finally, there are many many masail in this book, why has the rest of the book been left out and this particular thing shown (and shown in a twisted way at that)?

[Ibn Al-Majnoon]

Could someone please translate what the whole sentence says, because some of us us can't read/understand Urdu.

JazakAllah.

[abuhajira]

:salam:

There is a strange "Tawee'z" found in Bahishti Zaiwar of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi which he has prescribed for " casting out the effects of Magic" . The names of Pheron , Qaroon etc have been mentioned on the "Tawee'z". Can somebody explain it in the light of Quran and Hadith? The "tawee'z" can be found on page 90 , 9th part of Bahishti Zaiwar.


:salam: dr. ati

Could you elaborate what seems to be the issue with the ta'weez? Are you puzzled at the use of the names of fir'aun, haman etc. or the use of numbers? or the whole aspect of having a ta'weez?

If its the issue of type of ta'weez, then we will understand that you agree with the concept of ta'weez itself, correct? There are so many way of tackling your post, I cannot formulate a response in such ambiguity.

InshAllah then someone can answer your concern.

:ws:

[dr.ati]

Here again, the issue is misrepresented. Major facts are left out, only those things are mentioned which would shock a common Muslim. I have no doubt that this is an attempt to break people from Ulama.

The question is, prove from Quran and Hadith that the taweez Moulana Thanvi (ra) has posted here is AGAINST Quran and Hadith. Can you prove it is against Quran and Hadith?



1.Whats the logic in using the word "misrepresented" when i have pasted the page of the book?

2.The Question is to prove it according to Quran and Hadiths first.

[dr.ati]

:salam: dr. ati

Could you elaborate what seems to be the issue with the ta'weez? Are you puzzled at the use of the names of fir'aun, haman etc. or the use of numbers? or the whole aspect of having a ta'weez?

If its the issue of type of ta'weez, then we will understand that you agree with the concept of ta'weez itself, correct? There are so many way of tackling your post, I cannot formulate a response in such ambiguity.

InshAllah then someone can answer your concern.

:ws:

:salam:

My question is that is it anywhere mentioned in Quran and Hadith to formulate such Taweezat which contains numbers and the names of Firaun , Qaroon , Shidad and Namrood are mentioned in it?
:jazak:

[abuhajira]

:salam:

My question is that is it anywhere mentioned in Quran and Hadith to formulate such Taweezat which contains numbers and the names of Firaun , Qaroon , Shidad and Namrood are mentioned in it?
:jazak:

:salam:

no, its not mentioned in the quran and hadeth. neither is it mentioned that we must refer to bukhari for ahadeeth. case solved.

:ws:

[dr.ati]

:salam:

no, its not mentioned in the quran and hadeth. neither is it mentioned that we must refer to bukhari for ahadeeth. case solved.

:ws:

:salam:

Thanks for the clear answer. As the issue is related to faru' , is there any Qol/fatwa/act of Imam Abu Hanifa ra allowing or prescribing such Taweeza't?
:ws:

[abuhajira]

:salam:

Thanks for the clear answer. As the issue is related to faru' , is there any Qol/fatwa/act of Imam Abu Hanifa ra allowing or prescribing such Taweeza't?
:ws:

:salam:

what are the parameters of furu'? and why do you need Imam Saheb's view on this?

And if you think that this type of ta'weez needs some substantiation from Imam Saheb's view, which type of ta'weezat do you thing doesnt need substantiation.

As I mentioned in my first post, you objecting to this particular type of ta'weezat, would automatically mean you have no problem with "some" other types of ta'weezat. What are those ta'weezat?

:ws:

[dr.ati]

:salam:

what are the parameters of furu'? and why do you need Imam Saheb's view on this?

And if you think that this type of ta'weez needs some substantiation from Imam Saheb's view, which type of ta'weezat do you thing doesnt need substantiation.

As I mentioned in my first post, you objecting to this particular type of ta'weezat, would automatically mean you have no problem with "some" other types of ta'weezat. What are those ta'weezat?

:ws:

:salam:
As you said that these taweeza't are not mentioned in Quran and hadith and now its clear that neither are this type of amulets reported in Fiqh Hanafi books , then i would like to know about their source of origin.
The question of such Taweeza't falls under the parameters of furu' so there must be some reference to these things in the classical fiqh books if it is permissible and i am asking for that.This specific Tawee'z has been coded in "abjads" so what i am asking is that Imam Abu Hanifa ra prescribed such amulets to people or he did not? I am not applying his views as Hujjat in this matter but i want to know his position.Also , if Imam Mohamad Bin Hassan ra , Imam Zufar or Qadi Abu Yousaf ra prescribed such amulets or allowed it?

As far as amulets ,though its a separate topic, this is what Shaykh Abdulaziz Ibn Baaz ra says about them.

"Amulets that consist of other than the Qur’an such as bones, talismans, cowrie shells, wolf’s hair and the like are all evil and Haram (prohibited) by the Nas (Islamic text from the Qur’an or the Sunnah). It is not permissible to hang them on anybody or anything, because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Anyone who wears an amulet, may Allah not fulfill it (i.e., their purpose) for them, and whoever wears a cowrie shell, may Allah not give them peace.” And in another narration, he (peace be upon him) said, “Anyone who wears an amulet has committed Shirk (associated others with Allah in His Divinity or worship).”
On the other hand, if amulets consist of the Qur’an or well-known good supplications, this is a controversial matter among the scholars. Some say that such amulets are permissible. This opinion was reported from a group of the Salaf (righteous predecessors) who likened it to recitation (of some Qur’anic Ayahs and supplications) over sick people.
Others say that it is not permissible. This opinion is supported by ‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ud and Hudhaifah (may Allah be pleased with them both). A group of the Salaf and the righteous successors said it is not permissible to tie amulets even if they are from the Qur’an in accordance with the principle of Sadd-ul-Dhara’i‘ (blocking the means leading to sins) and to forestall acts of Shirk and to act upon the general meaning of the Hadiths. This is because the Hadiths that prohibit amulets are general and make no exception. Muslims should abide by the general ruling. Therefore, it is basically not permissible to use any kind of amulets in order not to permit people to use some other types of amulets, thus leading to confusing matters.
(Part No. 1; Page No. 52)
It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets and this is the soundest opinion for the obvious evidence supporting it.
If we permit the use of amulets made from the Qur’an and good supplications, it will open the door for people to wear any form of amulets they like. Then, if they are reproved for what they do, they will say that they are amulets consisting of the Qur’an or good supplications. Consequently, the door will be opened, the hole will expand and all types of amulets (whether from the Qur’an or anything else) will be worn.
There is another reason for their prohibition, which is the fact that people may enter the bathroom and other unclean places while wearing them. It is well-known that the Words of Allah (the Qur’an) are too sacred to be in such places and it is not appropriate to take them into bathrooms."

[Aram]

wasnt Ibn Taymiyyah RH of the view that amulets are permissible dependant on their content?

[Sulaiman84]

:salam:

http://www.deoband.org/2010/05/hadith/hadith-commentary/on-the-permissibility-of-writing-ta%E2%80%98widhat/

[abuhajira]

:salam:
As you said that these taweeza't are not mentioned in Quran and hadith and now its clear that neither are this type of amulets reported in Fiqh Hanafi books , then i would like to know about their source of origin.

:salam:

Since ruqiya is a form of tadawee there is no need to cite it from Quran and Hadeeth. The same hujjat which Ibn Baz mentions and attributes to some of the Salaf is sufficient for its ibahat. Hence I dont see any need to expound something that was done in whatever form in the sahaba or tabi'een time. If the ibaha was there, then that was general as well unless the nass can show that takhsees.


The question of such Taweeza't falls under the parameters of furu' so there must be some reference to these things in the classical fiqh books if it is permissible and i am asking for that.


Please show me that Quran or hadeeth that mentions this principle that if a matter is deemed to be from furu' then it has to have some reference to its specific forms from fiqh or aqwaal of fuqaha. You are posting the claim, now the bayyanah is in your liability too.


This specific Tawee'z has been coded in "abjads" so what i am asking is that Imam Abu Hanifa ra prescribed such amulets to people or he did not?


If Ml. Thanvi had said to eat a banana instead of using that naqsha, would you still ask the same question? If not why not? If so, then perhaps we all should stop tada'ee from anything untill dr. ati approves the method.

So I do not see why the need to present Imam Saheb's qawl for it. Its tadawee.


I am not applying his views as Hujjat in this matter but i want to know his position.Also , if Imam Mohamad Bin Hassan ra , Imam Zufar or Qadi Abu Yousaf ra prescribed such amulets or allowed it?

Since there is a marfu' hadeeth which says la taktubu anni shai'an min al qur'an, but some salaf including sahaba and then tabi'een wrote down qur'an. Can you now show me a SINGLE statement from Ibn Taymiya, Ibn Qayyim, Sufiyan Thawri, etc etc r.am that digital composing of quran is permissible?

Again, please do not make excuses. You posted Ibn Baaz fatwa taking backing from similar prohibition about amulets, yet he himself mentions some sahaba and salaf permitted while other didnt. And despite that you seek Imam Saheb's qawl on the current form of ta'weez. So the qiyas is not ma' al fariq


As far as amulets ,though its a separate topic, this is what Shaykh Abdulaziz Ibn Baaz ra says about them.


Allah accept Sh. bin Baz r.a and overlook his mistakes Ameen. That is his opinion, which he has called the sounded opinion. While that may not be the case for other Ulama who are equal in academic standing, if not exceeding by far, like Ml Thanvi r.a himself. He himself opines in the beggining of the chapter of jhar phoonk about these amaliyat to not be contrary to shariah and acceptable. So Just like you wouldnt accept Ml. Thanvi's opinion, We politely excuse ourselves from Ibn Baaz r.a's opinion.



"Amulets that consist of other than the Qur’an such as bones, talismans, cowrie shells, wolf’s hair and the like are all evil and Haram (prohibited) by the Nas (Islamic text from the Qur’an or the Sunnah). It is not permissible to hang them on anybody or anything, because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Anyone who wears an amulet, may Allah not fulfill it (i.e., their purpose) for them, and whoever wears a cowrie shell, may Allah not give them peace.” And in another narration, he (peace be upon him) said, “Anyone who wears an amulet has committed Shirk (associated others with Allah in His Divinity or worship).”

I believe I have already mentioned it one before on this forum quoting Ibn Taymia's caution from tadawi through haram medicine, he mentions :


[SIZE="5"][FONT="Traditional Arabic"]مجموع الفتاوى - (21 / 563)
وَلَيْسَ التَّدَاوِي بِضَرُورَةِ لِوُجُوهِ : أَحَدُهَا : أَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْ الْمَرْضَى أَوْ أَكْثَرُ الْمَرْضَى يَشْفُونَ بِلَا تَدَاوٍ لَا سِيَّمَا فِي أَهْلِ الْوَبَرِ وَالْقُرَى وَالسَّاكِنِينَ فِي نَوَاحِي الْأَرْضِ يَشْفِيهِمْ اللَّهُ بِمَا خَلَقَ فِيهِمْ مِنْ الْقُوَى الْمَطْبُوعَةِ فِي أَبْدَانِهِمْ الرَّافِعَةِ لِلْمَرَضِ وَفِيمَا يُيَسِّرُهُ لَهُمْ مِنْ نَوْعِ حَرَكَةٍ وَعَمَلٍ أَوْ دَعْوَةٍ مُسْتَجَابَةٍ أَوْ [COLOR="red"]رُقْيَةٍ نَافِعَةٍ أَوْ قُوَّةٍ لِلْقَلْبِ وَحُسْنِ التَّوَكُّلِ إلَى غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ مِنْ الْأَسْبَابِ الْكَثِيرَةِ غَيْرِ الدَّوَاءِ

And I will remind again, since ruqiya is acceptable. The difference of opinion will be which is shar'i and which is not. Then just like Ibn Baaz mentioned that those who prohibited it, did so on grounds of saddun baab, then those who kept its permissibility did so on the umoom of its ibaha. As for the jawaz of ruqiya, the riwayat are many, and those equating it to kufr and shirk is when the ruqiya is itself considered as active instead of Allah. One of the riwayah of bukhari clearly says "istarqu laha"..

Ml. Thanvi makes a mention of those ta'weezat which are not permissible in the begining of the chapter from where you have quoted. So while our ulama differ in the categorization of which type is permissible and which type is not permissible, the mas'ala is sorted out.

in summary it is not seen as a matter of deen rather a matter of tadawi which is permissible from any mean that in not contrary to shariah. As for making ruqiya in non arabic language the view of hanafi madhab is that it is only makruh to make it in non arabic if the person giving the ruqya does not know what it means, because in that case he will not be able to differenciate whether its some sehr, or not. (see shaami)


عن عوف بن مالك الأشجعى قال كنا نرقى فى الجاهلية فقلنا يا رسول الله كيف ترى فى ذلك فقال اعرضوا على رقاكم لا بأس بالرقى ما لم يكن فيه شرك. ( الجامع الصحيح مسلم , دار المعرفة , باب لا بأس بالرقى , ج 14, ص 408)

أجمع العلماء على جواز الرقي عند اجتماع ثلاثة شروط أن يكون بكلام الله تعالى أو بأسمائه وصفاته وباللسان العربي أو بما يعرف معناه من غيره وأن يعتقد أن الرقية لا تؤثر بذاتها بل بذات الله تعالى. (فتح الباري شرح صحيح البخاري , دار الفكر , بيروت , ج 10,ص195)





:ws:

[dr.ati]

:salam:


Since there is a marfu' hadeeth which says la taktubu anni shai'an min al qur'an, but some salaf including sahaba and then tabi'een wrote down qur'an. Can you now show me a SINGLE statement from Ibn Taymiya, Ibn Qayyim, Sufiyan Thawri, etc etc r.am that digital composing of quran is permissible?






I believe I have already mentioned it one before on this forum quoting Ibn Taymia's caution from tadawi through haram medicine, he mentions :


مجموع الفتاوى - (21 / 563)
وَلَيْسَ التَّدَاوِي بِضَرُورَةِ لِوُجُوهِ : أَحَدُهَا : أَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْ الْمَرْضَى أَوْ أَكْثَرُ الْمَرْضَى يَشْفُونَ بِلَا تَدَاوٍ لَا سِيَّمَا فِي أَهْلِ الْوَبَرِ وَالْقُرَى وَالسَّاكِنِينَ فِي نَوَاحِي الْأَرْضِ يَشْفِيهِمْ اللَّهُ بِمَا خَلَقَ فِيهِمْ مِنْ الْقُوَى الْمَطْبُوعَةِ فِي أَبْدَانِهِمْ الرَّافِعَةِ لِلْمَرَضِ وَفِيمَا يُيَسِّرُهُ لَهُمْ مِنْ نَوْعِ حَرَكَةٍ وَعَمَلٍ أَوْ دَعْوَةٍ مُسْتَجَابَةٍ أَوْ رُقْيَةٍ نَافِعَةٍ أَوْ قُوَّةٍ لِلْقَلْبِ وَحُسْنِ التَّوَكُّلِ إلَى غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ مِنْ الْأَسْبَابِ الْكَثِيرَةِ غَيْرِ الدَّوَاءِ

And I will remind again, since ruqiya is acceptable. The difference of opinion will be which is shar'i and which is not. Then just like Ibn Baaz mentioned that those who prohibited it, did so on grounds of saddun baab, then those who kept its permissibility did so on the umoom of its ibaha. As for the jawaz of ruqiya, the riwayat are many, and those equating it to kufr and shirk is when the ruqiya is itself considered as active instead of Allah. One of the riwayah of bukhari clearly says "istarqu laha"..

Ml. Thanvi makes a mention of those ta'weezat which are not permissible in the begining of the chapter from where you have quoted. So while our ulama differ in the categorization of which type is permissible and which type is not permissible, the mas'ala is sorted out.

in summary it is not seen as a matter of deen rather a matter of tadawi which is permissible from any mean that in not contrary to shariah. As for making ruqiya in non arabic language the view of hanafi madhab is that it is only makruh to make it in non arabic if the person giving the ruqya does not know what it means, because in that case he will not be able to differenciate whether its some sehr, or not. (see shaami)


عن عوف بن مالك الأشجعى قال كنا نرقى فى الجاهلية فقلنا يا رسول الله كيف ترى فى ذلك فقال اعرضوا على رقاكم لا بأس بالرقى ما لم يكن فيه شرك. ( الجامع الصحيح مسلم , دار المعرفة , باب لا بأس بالرقى , ج 14, ص 408)

أجمع العلماء على جواز الرقي عند اجتماع ثلاثة شروط أن يكون بكلام الله تعالى أو بأسمائه وصفاته وباللسان العربي أو بما يعرف معناه من غيره وأن يعتقد أن الرقية لا تؤثر بذاتها بل بذات الله تعالى. (فتح الباري شرح صحيح البخاري , دار الفكر , بيروت , ج 10,ص195)





:ws:
:salam:

1. I think that we agree on the four Adila e deen and the issue of digital Quran can be dealt by Ijmaa' and Qayas. You can apply these two adila to the issue of the text of that Tawee'z as you said that it can't be dealt with through Quran and Hadith.

2. RUqiya is a separate issue and this what Ibn Baaz ra says about it.

"This Hadith has an acceptable Isnad (chain of narrators). It was narrated by Ahmad and Abu Dawud from the narration of Ibn Mas‘ud. Interpreting the Hadith, scholars say that Ruqyah which includes unintelligible words, names of devils or the like are prohibited. A love charm is a form of sorcery called "As-Sarf (causing alienation) and Al-‘Atf (causing affection)". Amulets are objects put around children’s necks in order to dispel ‘Ayn (the evil eye) or Jinn (creatures created from fire) and they may be hung on those who are sick and old. Moreover, they may be hung on camels and other animals. We have already explained the ruling on them in the answer to the third question. Amulets that are hung on animals are called "Awtar (strings)" and they are a kind of Minor Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship) and have the same ruling as amulets. It has been authentically reported that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) in one of his expeditions sent a message to the army ordering: "They shall not keep any necklace of string or any other kind of necklace around the necks of camels but they should cut it off." This is supporting evidence for the prohibition of all kinds of amulets whether they consist of the Qur’an or anything else.
Thus, Ruqyahs are prohibited if they are unknown. But if they are known and include no form of Shirk or anything that is prohibited by Shari‘ah (Islamic law), then they are permissible. The Prophet (peace be upon him) treated with Ruqyah (Qur’an and supplications recited over the sick seeking healing) and was treated with it. He (peace be upon him) said, “There is nothing wrong with Ruqyah so long as it does not involve any Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship).” (Related by Muslim)
There is nothing wrong with reciting Ruqyah over some water. This is done by reciting over water then it is given to the sick person to drink or to be poured over them. The Prophet (peace be upon him) used to do this and it has been authentically reported in the Sunan (Hadith compilations classified by jurisprudential themes) of Abu Dawud in "The Book of Medicine" that the Prophet (peace be upon him) recited Ruqyah over water for Thabit ibn Qais ibn Shammas then he poured it over him. The Salaf also used to do this so it is permissible. "
:jazak:

[abuhajira]

:salam:

Amulets are objects put around children’s necks in order to dispel ‘Ayn (the evil eye) or Jinn (creatures created from fire) and they may be hung on those who are sick and old.


:salam:

These are not refering to amulets rather tameema.



(peace be upon him) in one of his expeditions sent a message to the army ordering: "They shall not keep any necklace of string or any other kind of necklace around the necks of camels but they should cut it off." This is supporting evidence for the prohibition of all kinds of amulets whether they consist of the Qur’an or anything else.

all referring to tama'im, and not ta'weezat.


Thus, Ruqyahs are prohibited if they are unknown. But if they are known and include no form of Shirk or anything that is prohibited by Shari‘ah (Islamic law), then they are permissible.

Ml. Thanvi knew about the ta'weez, those who study the science of making ta'weezat also know it, and know that it is not sehr, and that it is not effective on its own rather by Allah's will.
case closed.

NOW, after the above, where Ibn Baz is not even talking about ta'weez rather tameema... please answer again..the follwoing


1. I think that we agree on the four Adila e deen and the issue of digital Quran can be dealt by Ijmaa' and Qayas. You can apply these two adila to the issue of the text of that Tawee'z as you said that it can't be dealt with through Quran and Hadith.


The qiyas remain in tact. Present the opinion of those salaf about digital composing.


عن عوف بن مالك الأشجعى قال كنا نرقى فى الجاهلية فقلنا يا رسول الله كيف ترى فى ذلك فقال اعرضوا على رقاكم لا بأس بالرقى ما لم يكن فيه شرك. ( الجامع الصحيح مسلم , دار المعرفة , باب لا بأس بالرقى , ج 14, ص 408)



In case you overlooked, I in fact posted this hadeeth with regards to ruqyah. acouple of points from this hadeeth are

a) Nabi :saw: permitted all ruqyah as long as it does not have shirk in it.
b) The ruqyah for which the question was asked to Nabi :saw: was from jahiliyyah so it cannot have Quranic aayaat or names of Allah in it. So it has to be something that the Raqi himself knew.

With this reasoning there is no need to put restrictions unless mentioned by other ahadeeth, tabi'een.

:ws:

[Sufi_Taliban]

Assalam u Alikum wr wb

1stly person who asked the question should ask it from someone who is knowledgeable in the particular field and not ordinary people, as it only creates doubts in the minds of those who dont know. Even Most Ulama have no idea about the field hence incapable of answering the question.

2ndly Numerology is an accepted science.

3rdly The names mentioned in Taweez are for condemning them, like if someone made an amulet of Surah Al Masad which happens to have the name of Abu Lahab. Now anyone who doesnt understand Arabic and reads the name of Abu Lahab somehow without understanding the other Arabic words would deem it necessary to have Husn Al Zan with the writer and know that it would certainly be something related to his condemnation, because the rest of the book is related to Aqaid and Masail which are in accordance to Quran and Sunnah, and anyone who has hate of the writer will bring it up despite knowing that the same person condemned Shirk and Bidda in all its forms prior in the book.

I dont think one needs to be a rocket scientist to know the intent of the writer. I dont claim to be alimul Ghayb nor having recieved any info about his Neeyah through Kashf as yet. But it seems the point of this person is not to ask a question but to create fitnah. And why ask it at a forum if he really needs to know an answer? Why not email other Ulama about it? I mean if i wanted to know something about the Hanafi Madhab, i would ask Ulama about it before i ask laymen.

I also make Falietas to ward off effects of Evil eye. Falieta is a paper which has inscriptions written on it and then it is either rubbed on the body of the patient or burnt in front of him. The Falieta i write and burn has all the names mentioned in the taweez, and its in Farsi. A lot of Taweezat have these names in regards to their condemnation. Some Magicians might use these names for some other purpose but certainly all Muslims use it to condemn them.

Taweezat are not necessarily mentioned in Sunnah, it is a science and Amils through their experience of certain ayahs, words, numbers, sequence etc make a taweez which would have a certain effect. Like a chemist uses certain chemicals in certain proportions to make a medicine. Now using medicine is Mubha but certainly Rasool Allah(saw) mentioned certain medicines for certain aliments, but not all the aliments. So would the use of medicine other then the ones mentioned in the Sunnah be a Bidda? Similarly Quran mentions that it is a Shifa for the Momineen. Now People who go deep into the Quran find certain verses with certain spiritual effects and then use them in taweez. Its a science, so better ask people who know about it. The Quran mentions all the names mentioned in the Taweez, and Allah condemns them and so does the Taweez. Its like Umar(ra) sending a message to the river to flow without using anything from Quran and Sunnah directly but it worked. Hopefully this clarifies the Matter INSHALLAH.

[Khali]

:salam:

My question is that is it anywhere mentioned in Quran and Hadith to formulate such Taweezat which contains numbers and the names of Firaun , Qaroon , Shidad and Namrood are mentioned in it?
:jazak:

:ws:

No. It remembers me of a book named Shams ul Maarif wal Qubra of Ahmad al Buni, it was full of such squares with numbers etc. It would not suprise me if it is taken from there.

:salam:

:ws:

[dr.ati]

Assalam u Alikum wr wb



"2ndly Numerology is an accepted science."

:ws:

Numerology is a myth and its Haram. Who accepted it as science?

"In the name of Allah the All-Wise

Numerology is a branch of Astrology and fortune telling. Both are Haram and in conjunction to this so is numerology. Numerology is the study of the occult meanings of numbers and their so called influences on human life and creation.

To practice something such as this is haram, and it is also haram to go to them for help. A persons iman is at great risk.

Rasulullah Salallahu Alaihi Wassalam has said, ?whosoever as approached a soothsayer and asked him regarding anything, his Salah will not be excepted for forty nightts. (Muslim)

The word ?Arraafun? in the Hadith incorporates soothsayer, fortune tellers, clairvoyance, oracle etc.

One should seek the cures to ones problems in Allah through the Quran and the way shown to us by Rasulullah Salallahu Alaihi Wassalam.

And Allah the Provider knows best

--------------------------------------
Mufti Abubakr Karolia
Batley, U.K
Founder of the "Islamic Foundation for Theology and Research"

http://www.muftisays.com/qa/question/462/ilmul-adad.html



"I dont think one needs to be a rocket scientist to know the intent of the writer. I dont claim to be alimul Ghayb nor having recieved any info about his Neeyah through Kashf as yet. But it seems the point of this person is not to ask a question but to create fitnah. And why ask it at a forum if he really needs to know an answer? Why not email other Ulama about it? I mean if i wanted to know something about the Hanafi Madhab, i would ask Ulama about it before i ask laymen."

The issue is irrelevant to Hanafi Madhab.


"Taweezat are not necessarily mentioned in Sunnah, it is a science and Amils through their experience of certain ayahs, words, numbers, sequence etc make a taweez which would have a certain effect. Like a chemist uses certain chemicals in certain proportions to make a medicine. Now using medicine is Mubha but certainly Rasool Allah(saw) mentioned certain medicines for certain aliments, but not all the aliments. So would the use of medicine other then the ones mentioned in the Sunnah be a Bidda? Similarly Quran mentions that it is a Shifa for the Momineen. Now People who go deep into the Quran find certain verses with certain spiritual effects and then use them in taweez. Its a science, so better ask people who know about it. The Quran mentions all the names mentioned in the Taweez, and Allah condemns them and so does the Taweez. Its like Umar(ra) sending a message to the river to flow without using anything from Quran and Sunnah directly but it worked. Hopefully this clarifies the Matter INSHALLAH."

Neither is "Taweeza't" a science nor are the so called "Aamils" scientists. Kindly refer to any science encyclopedia for the definition of science. Also , read the definition of Bidaah and its constituents again. My only issue was to know the origins of knowledge claimed through such Taweeza't as we don't have any evidence that Prophet PBUH passed any such information about Quranic verses. How does one come to know the spiritual aspects of certain verses which have not been mentioned in Quran and Hadith or the Aqwal of early Fuqaha. I have not called it a Bidaah/shirk , i am studying the Hadiths related to such issues and would re-post when i reach a conclusion.

:jazak:

[dr.ati]

:ws:

No. It remembers me of a book named Shams ul Maarif wal Qubra of Ahmad al Buni, it was full of such squares with numbers etc. It would not suprise me if it is taken from there.

:salam:

:ws:

:salam:

I happen to have read a few chapters of "Shams al-Ma'arif al-Kubra" of the sufi, Ahmed Al-Buni. Its full of myths , the same myths which Islam tried to crush through the reality of the basic natural reality of "Tawheed" , have been indoctrinated or say "Islamified" in that book. Similarly , i have seen one such "Tawee'z" which has been taken from the famous occultist,Aleister Crowley's "book of Law".
This also explains that the early Sufis were mainly interested in such esoteric/occult things instead of " Ihsan" which is nowadays claimed to be the main purpose of " Tasawwuf".
:jazak:

[Sufi_Taliban]

Assalam u Alikum wr wb

"2ndly Numerology is an accepted science."

:ws:

Numerology is a myth and its Haram. Who accepted it as science?

"In the name of Allah the All-Wise

Numerology is a branch of Astrology and fortune telling. Both are Haram and in conjunction to this so is numerology. Numerology is the study of the occult meanings of numbers and their so called influences on human life and creation.

To practice something such as this is haram, and it is also haram to go to them for help. A persons iman is at great risk.

Rasulullah Salallahu Alaihi Wassalam has said, ?whosoever as approached a soothsayer and asked him regarding anything, his Salah will not be excepted for forty nightts. (Muslim)

The word ?Arraafun? in the Hadith incorporates soothsayer, fortune tellers, clairvoyance, oracle etc.

One should seek the cures to ones problems in Allah through the Quran and the way shown to us by Rasulullah Salallahu Alaihi Wassalam.

And Allah the Provider knows best

--------------------------------------
Mufti Abubakr Karolia
Batley, U.K
Founder of the "Islamic Foundation for Theology and Research"

http://www.muftisays.com/qa/question/462/ilmul-adad.html



"I dont think one needs to be a rocket scientist to know the intent of the writer. I dont claim to be alimul Ghayb nor having recieved any info about his Neeyah through Kashf as yet. But it seems the point of this person is not to ask a question but to create fitnah. And why ask it at a forum if he really needs to know an answer? Why not email other Ulama about it? I mean if i wanted to know something about the Hanafi Madhab, i would ask Ulama about it before i ask laymen."

The issue is irrelevant to Hanafi Madhab.


"Taweezat are not necessarily mentioned in Sunnah, it is a science and Amils through their experience of certain ayahs, words, numbers, sequence etc make a taweez which would have a certain effect. Like a chemist uses certain chemicals in certain proportions to make a medicine. Now using medicine is Mubha but certainly Rasool Allah(saw) mentioned certain medicines for certain aliments, but not all the aliments. So would the use of medicine other then the ones mentioned in the Sunnah be a Bidda? Similarly Quran mentions that it is a Shifa for the Momineen. Now People who go deep into the Quran find certain verses with certain spiritual effects and then use them in taweez. Its a science, so better ask people who know about it. The Quran mentions all the names mentioned in the Taweez, and Allah condemns them and so does the Taweez. Its like Umar(ra) sending a message to the river to flow without using anything from Quran and Sunnah directly but it worked. Hopefully this clarifies the Matter INSHALLAH."

Neither is "Taweeza't" a science nor are the so called "Aamils" scientists. Kindly refer to any science encyclopedia for the definition of science. Also , read the definition of Bidaah and its constituents again. My only issue was to know the origins of knowledge claimed through such Taweeza't as we don't have any evidence that Prophet PBUH passed any such information about Quranic verses. How does one come to know the spiritual aspects of certain verses which have not been mentioned in Quran and Hadith or the Aqwal of early Fuqaha. I have not called it a Bidaah/shirk , i am studying the Hadiths related to such issues and would re-post when i reach a conclusion.

:jazak:

Assalam u Alikum wr wb

Representing Arabic words and letters in numbers is an accepted form of writing, which is what i referred to as numerology. I am not sure if its called numerology, Therefore i will not talk about it further.

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=f0553a3b9f71c4aadf72c2e26b9c724c

Question:
I have encountered some local muslims putting 786/92 on an advert in a newspaper and I also saw another local brother put it on an invitation. When I asked him the significance he did not have a clue about the significance of the /92 part but said that 786 stands for Bismillah.

Answer

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh

It is permissible to use the number 786 on letterheads etc if there is a fear of the name Allah being disrespected. According to the numeric values mentioned in the famous lexicon, Fairuzul Lughaat, the number 786 symbolizes Bismillahir Rahmaan Nir Raheem if the numeric value of each letter in Bismillahir Rahmaan Nir Raheem is added up.

Every Arabic letter has a numeric value. For example the numeric value of the letter ( ب ) Ba is 2 and the numeric value of the letter م)) Meem is 40. The numeric values of the letters that make up Bismillahir Rahmaan Nir Raheem are illustrated below:

ب ------------------- 2
س ------------------- 60
م ------------------- 40
ا ------------------- 1
ل ------------------- 30
ل ------------------- 30
ه ------------------- 5
ا ------------------- 1
ل ------------------- 30
ر ------------------- 200
ح ------------------- 8
م ------------------- 40
ن ------------------- 50
ا ------------------- 1
ل ------------------- 30
ر ------------------- 200
ح ------------------- 8
ي ------------------- 10
م ------------------- 40

Total: 786

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم = 786

Note: The Alifألف) ) in the word Allah ألله)) and in the word Rahmaan رحمن)) has been excluded as these two Alif's are not written in Bismillahir Rahmaan Nir Raheem although they are pronounced when recited.

However, the practice of substituting Bismillahir Rahmaan Nir Raheem with the number 786 is not substantiated by the Ahadith nor the Qur'aan. This was merely the practice of some of our pious predecessors. It is not a sunnah practice nor does it hold any virtue.

And Allah knows best

Wassalam

Ml. Suhail Tarmahomed,
Student Darul Iftaa
Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mentioned the Hanafi Madhab, because you asked a question on a forum which is predominantly Hanafi. And besides you asked us if Abu Hanifa(ar) allowed this.

"As the issue is related to faru' , is there any Qol/fatwa/act of Imam Abu Hanifa ra allowing or prescribing such Taweeza't?" Arent these your words from Post # 16?

If your concern was other then the Hanafi Madhab then you wouldnt have used the Imam;s name is Particular? So its either that you are not sure what you are asking or its just about arguing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wikipedia defines Science as

"Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

Do you think what Amils do something besides this? Aside from the fact thats it has connections to the Metaphysical realm? Like other branches of Islamic knowledge are called sciences, like science of Hadeeth, Tafseer, Fiqh etc, why cant this qualify in your auspicious understanding to be under science? Please present your invaluable opinion on this, if you may.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why dont you just stick to asking questions from an Ulama akhi?? One reason for the fasad in the Ummah is unqualified people researching matters of Islam. There are plenty of Prerequisites of doing research in Islam, it seems you do not even qualify to read certain texts without Ulama, much rather trying to research. I am not saying i am any higher, but research should be left only to the qualified. Stick to what the Ulama says and you will be safe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe this is sort of relevent

Bukhari narrates in his Sahih Collection that the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessing be upon him) said:

اصبرو فانه لا يأتي عليكم زمان الا و الذي بعده اشر منه

“Be patient, verily a time will not come upon you except that the time after it, is more eviler than it.”

Ibn Mas’ud said about this hadith:

ما ذاك بكثرة الامطار و قلتها و لكن بذهاب العلماء ثم يحدث قوم يفتون في الامور برأيهم فيثلمون الإسلام و يهدمونه

” That is not due to abundance or depletion of rain, but it is due to the disappearance of the Ulama [educated scholars] then the occurrence of a “people” [not ulama!] who give fatwa according to their own opinions [meaning unqualified opinions]corrupting/bending [the meaning] of Islam and destroying it”.

The fact that Ibn Mas’ud used the word ” a people will come” shows that they are not scholars but pretenders which is inferred from the fact that he referred to the first group as scholars whereas the second group he referred to them as merely “people”. It also indicates that such people will be mistaken by the common folk to be scholars since they “give fatwa..”And because they are assumed to be scholars by the common folk, their opinions are respected although they are contrary to the practice of Islam. In this way the pretenders distort and help in destroying a true representation of Islam as Ibn Mas’ud mentioned.

Much of what we see happening today under the claim of “contextualization and reform” is a result of what Ibn Mas’ud is talking about. Anyone will notice that those who are consistent in such claims, tend to pick at and focus on those issues that conflict with societies whose moral compass is dictated by godless people who openly disregard religion as a premise altogether and moreover openly show disregard towards Islam as a religion. Much of it is done as a desperate attempt to convince such societies that “our religion” is suitable for their standard of life , or to make permissible what is known to be haram in search for desirable ease.

There is no doubt some type of contextualization much apply in the modern world when that is necessary,which is embodied by jurisprudence.To”contextualize” means to take the foundations of something and make it applicable to the times in a meaningful way or to grant dispensations in areas recognized by the shari’ah. Some of what we see today is not that, but rather unwarranted and unqualified reasoning by those who wish to change the rules and regulations of matters well established in Islam.

http://www.al-faqih.com/?p=430

[Khali]

:salam:

I happen to have read a few chapters of "Shams al-Ma'arif al-Kubra" of the sufi, Ahmed Al-Buni. Its full of myths , the same myths which Islam tried to crush through the reality of the basic natural reality of "Tawheed" , have been indoctrinated or say "Islamified" in that book. Similarly , i have seen one such "Tawee'z" which has been taken from the famous occultist,Aleister Crowley's "book of Law".
This also explains that the early Sufis were mainly interested in such esoteric/occult things instead of " Ihsan" which is nowadays claimed to be the main purpose of " Tasawwuf".
:jazak:

:ws:

I even saw that al-Buni said when describing a certain tawiz, that the person should draw the person's picture and then write some things on it !!! Ehm wasn't drawing prohibited ?

Did the rightfull ulema spoke and abandon this book ?

:salam:

[Abdullah Muavia]

Assalam-o-alykum wr wb
AbuHajira brother has cleared the doubt enough, and there is no more objection left to answer. The composition of digital Qur'an in itself is the continuous serious of binary codes of zeros and ones (1-0). whatever we read on digital media is solely composed of numbers but nobody comment upon it. Only ulemas are brought to remand.
jazakumUllah all of you brothers for refuting the claims in such a beautiful mannes.

[dr.ati]

^ Start posting in some other threads as well as i am getting an impression that you were brought into being by some mysterious forces just to bump this old thread of mine. Accidentally , you bumped this thread when i was quoting Mufti Taqi Uthmani db in another thread which got deleted minutes after you posted here.
Your electronic coding of Quran theory is a bad attempt at humor. Why do you people shy away from these things nowadays? If it is such a great act , start making amulets now in the name of Hamaan , Qaroon , Shidaad etc. The Deobandi scholars were not Shari' so that they won't commit any mistakes. I think it is the right time to start not to defend such mistakes or time , science and Salafis will consume you.

[Abdul Qaadir]

A ta'weedh with the names of Firawn, Qaroon, Hamaan, Shidaad, Namrood, and Iblees?

Obviously it has to be some kind of black magic.

May Allaah protect us from this kind of strange evil things. Ameen

[abuhajira]

A ta'weedh with the names of Firawn, Qaroon, Hamaan, Shidaad, Namrood, and Iblees?

Obviously it has to be some kind of black magic.

May Allaah protect us from this kind of strange evil things. Ameen

obviously :rolleyes:

Ameen

[FususAlHikam]

A ta'weedh with the names of Firawn, Qaroon, Hamaan, Shidaad, Namrood, and Iblees?

Obviously it has to be some kind of black magic.

May Allaah protect us from this kind of strange evil things. Ameen

Are you expert in these things or did you pull this out of a hat?

[Abdul Qaadir]

Are you expert in these things or did you pull this out of a hat?

I'm not an expert in black magic, and alhamdulillaah that's a good thing. Learning black magic is totally haraam, and practicing black magic is nothing but shirk

The scan page which Dr Ati uploaded is just one of many examples of shirk and magic that sufi books are filled with. Writing numbers in squares, writing strange names, strange symbols and stars, all of this is black magic. This is how Jews and Christians also practice black magic. I have studied Sufism and without a doubt it is just the "Islamic" version of Kabbalah, which is Jewish black magic. The exact way in which Jews make amulets containing numbers, patterns, circles, and stars, is exactly how Sufis make their ta'weedhaat and tamaa'im.

Go to Google images and type "Jewish amulets", and then compare it with images of "taw'eedh", it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out whats going on. Only difference you will see is that Jewish amulets are written in Hebrew, and "Islamic" Ta'weedh are written in Arabic. Everything else is the same.

And then remember the Hadeeth of Rasoolullaah :saw: when he said that his Ummah will copy the ways of the Jews and Christians.

[abuhajira]

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out whats going on.

apparently it takes only a google scientist. :rolleyes:

[FususAlHikam]

I'm not an expert in black magic, and alhamdulillaah that's a good thing. Learning black magic is totally haraam, and practicing black magic is nothing but shirk

The scan page which Dr Ati uploaded is just one of many examples of shirk and magic that sufi books are filled with. Writing numbers in squares, writing strange names, strange symbols and stars, all of this is black magic. This is how Jews and Christians also practice black magic. I have studied Sufism and without a doubt it is just the "Islamic" version of Kabbalah, which is Jewish black magic. The exact way in which Jews make amulets containing numbers, patterns, circles, and stars, is exactly how Sufis make their ta'weedhaat and tamaa'im.

Go to Google images and type "Jewish amulets", and then compare it with images of "taw'eedh", it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out whats going on. Only difference you will see is that Jewish amulets are written in Hebrew, and "Islamic" Ta'weedh are written in Arabic. Everything else is the same.

And then remember the Hadeeth of Rasoolullaah :saw: when he said that his Ummah will copy the ways of the Jews and Christians.

Wow. You have really left me speechless.

[Abbe]

apparently it takes only a google scientist. :rolleyes:

:p

[Taliban1]

Learning black magic is totally haraam, and practicing black magic is nothing but shirk


Who said it's not haram to learn it?

And how do you know theres a black magic out there?

How about green, blue, white and yellowish magic?

[Abdul Qaadir]

Who said it's not haram to learn it?

And how do you know theres a black magic out there?

How about green, blue, white and yellowish magic?

There is only one magic, black magic, because all magic is black, meaning all magic is evil.
So there is no white magic or blue magic....there is only black magic.

The Prophet :saw: explained to us how to avoid magic, and what are the utensils of magic, such as potions [at-Tiwalah], amulets [at-Tamaa'im], incantations [ar-Ruqaa]. He mentioned that all of these three things are shirk.

[Taliban1]

Who said it's not haram to learn it?


Please answer this

[Abdul Qaadir]

Please answer this

Throughout history, many so called Muslims have been advocating the learning of black magic. These were the people who concocted the hadith "Learn magic, but do not use it."

Ashraf Ali Thanvi, who is famously called "Hakeem ul Ummat" wrote a book called "Amal-i-Quraani" in which he gave some magic formulas:

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1773/9677484/19668720/320526722.jpg

In this book, p 21, Thanvi told how to use some magic to separate between two persons:
“(Allah said:) ”We have put hatred and animosity between them until the day of
resurrection”
If you desire to separate and put hatred between two persons, write this verse on a
Bhuj stone, then write (the picture):
And below the picture write the sentence: may the separation occur between Fulan (so and
so) and Fulan. Write the names of the two persons instead of Fulan, make a Ta’wiz
(Tameemah) of it and bury it between two old graves, but don’t do it for people not
deserving this, as it will be a sin.”

If you look at the image which Ashraf Ali Thanvi drew, he wrote the word "SIHR" in urdu script, twice and criss-crossed, and then four times wrote the word "Allah" for each corner.

[Taliban1]

I've read this book thousands of times.

How is it magic can you please explain?

And where has he written the word Sihr?

[Idil_]

A ta'weedh with the names of Firawn, Qaroon, Hamaan, Shidaad, Namrood, and Iblees?

Obviously it has to be some kind of black magic.

May Allaah protect us from this kind of strange evil things. Ameen


:lol::lol: Aouthubillah shocking or what!?

[Abdul Qaadir]

I've read this book thousands of times.

How is it magic can you please explain?

And where has he written the word Sihr?

The word sihr is written two times, vertically and horizontally, criss crossed with each other. If you look closely you will see it.

[hiso]

Throughout history, many so called Muslims have been advocating the learning of black magic. These were the people who concocted the hadith "Learn magic, but do not use it."

Ashraf Ali Thanvi, who is famously called "Hakeem ul Ummat" wrote a book called "Amal-i-Quraani" in which he gave some magic formulas:

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1773/9677484/19668720/320526722.jpg

In this book, p 21, Thanvi told how to use some magic to separate between two persons:
“(Allah said:) ”We have put hatred and animosity between them until the day of
resurrection”
If you desire to separate and put hatred between two persons, write this verse on a
Bhuj stone, then write (the picture):
And below the picture write the sentence: may the separation occur between Fulan (so and
so) and Fulan. Write the names of the two persons instead of Fulan, make a Ta’wiz
(Tameemah) of it and bury it between two old graves, but don’t do it for people not
deserving this, as it will be a sin.”

If you look at the image which Ashraf Ali Thanvi drew, he wrote the word "SIHR" in urdu script, twice and criss-crossed, and then four times wrote the word "Allah" for each corner.

This is a big buhtan.
The word magic is never used there while the page clearly states amaal-e-qurani.
Neither the urdu word is sihr.
This is buhtaan-e-azeem agaisnt moulana thanvi ra.
You just quote to satisfy your nafs.

[Taliban1]

The word sihr is written two times, vertically and horizontally, criss crossed with each other. If you look closely you will see it.

Haye theri saadgi pur Qurbaan jaoon.....

That's sihr ???

[Abdul Qaadir]

Look at the icon, you will see the word SIHR written twice, vertically and horizontally. You pretending it's not there doesn't make it so. You are like an ostrich that thinks that by putting its head in the sand it will somehow become invisible to all predators.

[dr.ati]

The point to ponder here is that from where these weird things popped into Islam and how on earth did the writers of such bizarre stuff came to know that saying something so many times and writing something in a specific format can yield some specific results. If such things are so good then why do people defend them only ? Why not to practice and preach them openly instead of shying away from them these days. For how long shall we be looking for the justifications of our racial creeds and somehow fit each and everything our "Akaabir" said into Islam? I really don't know how a rational mind will accept these Taweeazaat with weird numerology and symbolism.

[dr.ati]

Haye theri saadgi pur Qurbaan jaoon.....

That's sihr ???

Maulana what is it if not Sihr? Why is the name of Allah written in such cross inverted format?
How did the author come to know that blowing the specific verse of sweets can cause love between the blower and the eater of that sweet?

[Taliban1]

Maulana what is it if not Sihr? Why is the name of Allah written in such cross inverted format?

Salam Alaikum,

Hazrat, I thought u got electrocuted by Molvi Electric Shah :lol:

Ok hazrat, if you want to discuss this nicely then lets discuss it:

First tell me what black magic is and how it is done.

:jazak:

[abuhajira]

:salam: dr. ati

Please do discuss here. I want to learn about this field. And Ml. Taliban seems to know about it. So please tackle him with all your might so I can learn something inshAllah.

:ws:

[dr.ati]

Salam Alaikum,


First tell me what black magic is and how it is done.

:jazak:

:salam:

:?: Naa No Man tail hoga aur na Radha nachay gi. Maulana what has black magic got to do with this?

[Aram]

Please answer this

i may be wrong but when people talk about doing black magic on others and it being shirk does that not mean the type of magic where the magician contacts shaytani jinns and worships them in order for them to help him? :confused:

Here we are talking about using Quranic Ayats, so are some of the people in this thread suggesting that quranic ayats can be used to perform black (evil) magic on people? :confused:

[ahamed_sharif]

Allegations against Moulana ashraf Ali Thanvi rahimahullah being a saahir
March 4, 2008
by jaamiahamidia

as salaamu alaykum

May this reach you in good health and imaan,

Dear shaykh what is the ruling concerning taweez from the Quran and sunnah. Also shaykh some individuals have been quoting from the works of Mawlana ashraf ali thanawi rahimahullah (one of his works of supplications) and they quoted that there is a practice in which he says if one wants to cause hatred between two people (ie two evil people) then you should get a stone write a specific quranic ayah and then write the name ‘Allah’ in four boxes and then cover the stone and bury it between two graves.

Is this practice from the sunnah? THese individuals are attacking ali thanawi rahimahullah accusing him of practicing sorcery. What is the sunnah stance on this.

jazakallaah khayr

wasalaam

Reply:

assalaamalaykum
This is an important matter that needs understanding and in depth explanation, I hereby will attempt to address the issue in my best capacity and also ask ALLAH to aide me and guide me to explain it in the best manner that will be beneficial. ameen

Firstly , we all agree that sihr is a reality and its existance is a reality. It is only the mu’tazila that deny the existance of sihr. When there is the reality of sihr we see that rasulullaah salallaahu alayhi wa sallam was effected by the sihr of labid bin a’sim the yahudi and the last two chapters of the qur’aan were revealed to remove this effect. If a person has been effected by sihr and someone wants it removed , will it be permissible to use the knowledge of sihr to removed it or not? In tafseer Ahkaamul Qur’aan of Allamah qurtubi under the tafseer of ayah 102 of Surah baqarah the following passage has been extracted from it-

وٱختلفوا هل يُسئل الساحر حلّ السحر عن المسحور؛ فأجازه سعيد بن المسيّب على ما ذكره البخاري، وإليه مال المُزَنِيّ وكرهه الحسن البصري. وقال الشّعبي: لا بأس بالنُّشْرة. قال ٱبن بَطّال: وفي كتاب وَهْب بن مُنَبّه أن يأخذ سبع ورقات من سِدْر أخضر فيدقّه بين حجرين ثم يضربه بالماء ويقرأ عليه آية الكرسي، ثم يَحْسُو منه ثلاث حَسَوات ويغتسل به؛ فإنه يذهب عنه كل ما به، إن شاء الله تعالى، وهو جيّد للرجل إذا حُبس عن أهله.
“The ulema have differed over the issue whether it is permissible to ask a saahir to remove the sihr from a person on whom sihr was done? Saeed bin musayyib radhiyallaahu anhu had given permissibility for it as imam bukhaari has mentioned Imam muzuni rahimahullah was in favour of this verdict but hasan basri rahimahulah disliked it. Sha3bi rahimahullaah said that there is no problem with nushrah…”

this is further clearly explained in the ahkaamul qur’aan that was written on the command of moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi rahimahullaah by moulana Zafar Ahmed Uthmaani rahimahullah Stating that imam Bukhaari rahimahullaah brought the narration of saeed bin musayyib Taleeqan in his saheeh from qataadah rahimahullaah who asked saeed bin musayyib about a person who is effected by sihr or who has been prevented from going to his wife can nushrah be used for its removal? saeed answered that there is no problem because good is intended by it. Nushrah is explained by ibn jowzi rahimahullaah as the removal of Sihr from the effected and this can only be possible when one knows sihr. Imaam ahmad bin hanbal rahimahullaah was asked of the removal of sihr ? He replied that there is no problem with it. In the musannaf of Abdur razaak it is mentioned that imaam sha3bi rahimahullah said that there is no problem with nushrah. Also further it is mentioned of two cures from sihr and its method that was narrated by hashid who mentioned he learned about it in Syria. hashid is one of the narrators of bukhaari from his saheeh.
As for the amal that is mentioned to cause separation between two people, Ml Thanwi has clearly mentioned that is should only be used for things permissible otherwise the person will be committing a great sin. This amal normally is used to remove a form of sihr that is known in arabic as tiwalah. This is a form of sihr to cause a person to fall in love with someone he/she dislikes or refuses to see.This causes the person to become totally and madly in love with the opposite person to such an extent that they then even break all ties with the family and also refuse to listen to any reason. On many instances this has been used by kuffar against muslims and fear of the person apostating becomes reality. If under such circumstances it is used will you call it wrong? Also does it consist of and declaration of haraam that they label him a scorceror? -As for burying it in the ground what is normally done with the pages that are worn out of old qur’aanulhakeem?
As for the usage of ta’weedh and ruqaa then this is clearly found in the books of ahaadeeth that has been taught by Rasulullaah salallaahu alayhi wa sallam himself. In muatta of imam maalik there is an incident that is narrated by the son of sahl bin hunayf radhiyallahu anhu of his father who was effected by the”eye” of another companion aamir bin rabi3a radhiyallahu anhu while he washing up. Sahl became severly ill and could not undertake the journey that we was to accompany Rasulullaah salallaahu alayhi wasallam on the next day. When Rasulullaah salallaahu alayhi wasallam was informed about it he called sayyidina aamir and rebuked him and ordered him to wash himself fully in a tub and pour the gathered water over sahl from behind which caused sahl radhiyalaahu anhu to become better immediately. Sahl then accompanied Rasulullaah salallaahu alayhi wasallam on the journey.”

i hope people with this will understand right from wrong and also see the hatred of the hateful .
And ALLAH knows best
m.h.adam

[Taliban1]

A ta'weedh with the names of Firawn, Qaroon, Hamaan, Shidaad, Namrood, and Iblees?

Obviously it has to be some kind of black magic.




Ashraf Ali Thanvi, who is famously called "Hakeem ul Ummat" wrote a book called "Amal-i-Quraani" in which he gave some magic formulas:

In this book, p 21, Thanvi told how to use some magic to separate between two persons:
“(Allah said:) ”We have put hatred and animosity between them until the day of
resurrection”



:salam:

:?: Naa No Man tail hoga aur na Radha nachay gi. Maulana what has black magic got to do with this?

:ws:

Please see above what black magic got to do with this.

Na Radha ko nachana hai na kisi ko tail karna hai, idhar hume electric shah ko kharkana hai jo bazahir aap na kar pa rahay kyun keh aap ko khatka hai keh kaheen aap ko radha na bana diya jaye.

The guy above claimed that this is Black magic.


Please tell me, what is black magic?

How many kinds of black magics are there?

How is black magic Shirk?



Waiting for your answers.

:jazak:

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


If under such circumstances it is used will you call it wrong?

My practical experience. A beautiful young muslim girl was travelling regularly to school by public transport bus. The conductor of the bus mixed something in the water and offered to the girl. The girl fell in love with the bus conductor (he is dark and from a low caste hindu community). The aamil found this sihr and did counter sihr. Now our muttaqee and muwwahid brothers will accuse the aamil of separating two lovers. How about if it happens to their nears and dears.

[dr.ati]

:ws:

Please see above what black magic got to do with this.

Na Radha ko nachana hai na kisi ko tail karna hai, idhar hume electric shah ko kharkana hai jo bazahir aap na kar pa rahay kyun keh aap ko khatka hai keh kaheen aap ko radha na bana diya jaye.

The guy above claimed that this is Black magic.


Please tell me, what is black magic?

How many kinds of black magics are there?

How is black magic Shirk?



Waiting for your answers.

:jazak:

:salam:

Maulana why are you dragging this discussion towards Black magic? Kindly address the following question and enlighten us.


Maulana what is it if not Sihr? Why is the name of Allah written in such cross inverted format?
How did the author come to know that blowing the specific verse of sweets can cause love between the blower and the eater of that sweet?

:jazak:

[dr.ati]

Assalamu alaykum



My practical experience. A beautiful young muslim girl was travelling regularly to school by public transport bus. The conductor of the bus mixed something in the water and offered to the girl. The girl fell in love with the bus conductor (he is dark and from a low caste hindu community). The aamil found this sihr and did counter sihr. Now our muttaqee and muwwahid brothers will accuse the aamil of separating two lovers. How about if it happens to their nears and dears.

"For God sake" is the only thing which came to my mind after reading this one.

[Sulaiman84]

"For God sake" is the only thing which came to my mind after reading this one.

Would you be so kind to say what came to your mind after reading what brother ahmed_sharif posted from the question and answer?

[Aspirer]

:salam:

If such a sihr is to be used only in such an extremely specific situation, why is it in a book available to the public?

Are there any other times when using this sihr would be practical as opposed to terrible? Such a sihr could cause enmity between life-long friends, and other horrible consequences in the wrong hands.

Let's pass over the topic of the orthodoxy of the sihr in question for now because there won't be much agreement and ask whether it is really wise that it should be provided in such a way that any fellow willing to purchase a book can suddenly know how to make two people detest one another?

[xs11ax]

:salam:

does it definitely say 'sihr'?

[xs11ax]

:salam:

so is it ok for amils to use sihr in order to counter sihr? i ask because i have been warned by people to stay away from amils who use sihr to cure their patients but now people are saying sihr is ok if used for the good.

[Kashmir_85]

The wahafis will get ya!!! Lock your doors, close your windows

[ImamGhazzaali]

:salam:

so is it ok for amils to use sihr in order to counter sihr?
:ws:

No.

[dr.ati]

Would you be so kind to say what came to your mind after reading what brother ahmed_sharif posted from the question and answer?


"Jo Jhoot bol kay Karta Hay Mutma'in Sub Ko
Wo Jhoot bol kay khud mutma'in nahi hota"

"The one who lies to satisfy the others is never satisfied himself"

[dr.ati]

PS. I want an daleel for the numerology , format and wording of these two supplications from Quran , Sunnah and Aqwaal of the Salaf. I am sure that the only argument which shall be tried here will be "When you can't defend something illogical and irrational then create a conjecture by comparing an ill defined issue with another ill defined so that the issue becomes disputed and an ambiguity is created" so let us keep black magic and its types out of this discussion and try to build up some arguments from the established principles of Islam.

[Aspirer]

:ws:

No.

:ws:

That's interesting. How is one to reconcile this with the above writings of Ml. Ashraf Ali Thanawi?

[Aspirer]

:salam:

What I have never understood about these matters is, why are any of these things supposed to necessary or even beneficial when Surah al-Fatiha, Surah al-Falaq. Surah an-Nas, other Surahs prescribed for these problems by the Prophet :saw: are readily available to all?

Are they supposed to be more or less beneficial than them, or supplementary? If less beneficial, why use them at all, and how could they be more? If they are said to be supplementary, then how exactly would that work, that those Surahs require a supplement?

[dr.ati]

:salam:

What I have never understood about these matters is, why are any of these things supposed to necessary or even beneficial when Surah al-Fatiha, Surah al-Falaq. Surah an-Nas, other Surahs prescribed for these problems by the Prophet :saw: are readily available to all?

Are they supposed to be more or less beneficial than them, or supplementary? If less beneficial, why use them at all, and how could they be more? If they are said to be supplementary, then how exactly would that work, that those Surahs require a supplement?

:salam:

Exactly brother. I have been thinking on the very same lines that why on earth do we need such weird and bizarre amulets.I have some details of it as well. However i would provide them later in this thread as i don't want to provide the defenders of such Taweezat with some more words.The only word with which they can play now is "Black magic". I will notify here that some of these "Taweezat" can be found in the famous occultist Aleister Crowley's "book of Law".

[dr.ati]

This is the Quran and Sunnah of these "taweez defenders". I don't know how much far shall we go in the defense of our sectarian affiliations.


Assalam-o-alykum wr wb
The composition of digital Qur'an in itself is the continuous serious of binary codes of zeros and ones (1-0). whatever we read on digital media is solely composed of numbers but nobody comment upon it. Only ulemas are brought to remand.


Sometimes i get a very strong feeling that Islam is in a suspended state somewhere in our throats and we are yet to absorb it. The thing which we have absorbed fully in the name of Islam is the defense of our inherited ideologies.

[Sulaiman84]

"Jo Jhoot bol kay Karta Hay Mutma'in Sub Ko
Wo Jhoot bol kay khud mutma'in nahi hota"

"The one who lies to satisfy the others is never satisfied himself"

Thanks for translating.

Can you not make me do ta'weel of that statement and just give a straight up answer?:-)

[Intrepid]

Sometimes I do wonder why such emphasis is given to such practices which have no solid foundations through Quran and Hadith. I am yet to be convinced by numerology.

[abuhajira]

:salam:

and i dont understand when people who dont or cannot differenciate between ruqya or tameema , how do they got of such high horses to establish what is from Quran and Sunnah and whats not!

:ws:

[abuhajira]

Thanks for translating.

Can you not make me do ta'weel of that statement and just give a straight up answer?:-)

:salam:

the answer shall be:

jo ta'weel ki taraf bhinnak bhi daal de ik baar
hai majaal ke us ko jhoot ho naagawaar
pehle to hum tumko jhoot se bhagatay they
ab to ta'weel peh bhi tumhein karein gay khuwaar

Whoever looks at ta'weel even for once, how can he dislike lies. Before we used to deter you from lies, now we will also ridicule you for ta'weel!!

Hey just conjuring some prose up makes it kinda like Nostradamus ... Cryptic :)

For a moment let you imagination take you in the times of Sahaba. A person is in deathly throws with an immense migranne. He is contemplating getting his head knocked. A person gives him two small white round tablet and tells him to eat it and sleep in a dark area. The person does it, and voila he is fresh as a jumping jack. What would the ill fellow think the person was? A Sahir? or doctor giving asprin tablet .

Ok another more suitable example in the same line. A person is suffering heavy from congestion. He is finding is almost heavy to breath. His sinuses are severely blocking him. The same person comes put a bucket of water and heat it to to level of boiling. Put a dab of some sticky goo into it. mix it and make a potion. Tells the person to put his head on the bucket and cover him with a sheet! The child next to him says, oye..jadoooo! And couple of hours later the ill person is better from his congestion. Was the person a Sahir or a GP using vix vapour rub?

[Sulaiman84]

:salam:

Whoever looks at ta'weel even for once, how can he dislike lies. Before we used to deter you from lies, now we will also ridicule you for ta'weel!!

Hey just conjuring some prose up makes it kinda like Nostradamus ... Cryptic :)

:ws:

So it's sort of like hey, everyone makes ta'weel except that some use it with their right hand while others use it with their left hand.:p




For a moment let you imagination take you in the times of Sahaba. A person is in deathly throws with an immense migranne. He is contemplating getting his head knocked. A person gives him two small white round tablet and tells him to eat it and sleep in a dark area. The person does it, and voila he is fresh as a jumping jack. What would the ill fellow think the person was? A Sahir? or doctor giving asprin tablet .

Ok another more suitable example in the same line. A person is suffering heavy from congestion. He is finding is almost heavy to breath. His sinuses are severely blocking him. The same person comes put a bucket of water and heat it to to level of boiling. Put a dab of some sticky goo into it. mix it and make a potion. Tells the person to put his head on the bucket and cover him with a sheet! The child next to him says, oye..jadoooo! And couple of hours later the ill person is better from his congestion. Was the person a Sahir or a GP using vix vapour rub?

After reading what ahmed_sharif posted that among the salaf were those who deemed it permissible to use such methods. So it's really a non-issue to me. But what's disturbing and problematic is that those who hold opposing positions, turn a blind eye to what the salaf have said and seemingly want others to become blind, or at least have doubt in what they see.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

In the OP we are discussing the chart. In the bottom of the chart these words are there

فرون - قارون - ہامان - شداد - نمرود - ..........
علیہ اللعنتہ ایشاں اگر نہ گ

I think that is persian. And the word laanath is there. Can any one of us please translate that.

[Taliban1]

:salam:

does it definitely say 'sihr'?

:ws:

No, it's more like Lahr, of Hasr, or Lehsar :) No where even near Sihr

[Taliban1]

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1773/9677484/19668720/320526722.jpg




:salam:

Maulana why are you dragging this discussion towards Black magic? Kindly address the following question and enlighten us.


Maulana

what is it if not Sihr?
Why is the name of Allah written in such cross inverted format?
How did the author come to know that blowing the specific verse of sweets can cause love between the blower and the eater of that sweet?


:jazak:

:ws:

:salam:

1. It is a simple amal to be read and used to put animosity between two HARAM lovers. He has mentioned in the end, Don't use it Na-Haq.

2. Allah's name is written in just one way. Not in a cross inverted format.

3. If you had read the book or Hazrat's Malfoozats, he mentions it repeatedly that his Sheikh Hazrat Haji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki (RA) told him not to refuse anyone who comes for a taweez or amal. Whatever comes to your mind just prescribe it insha'Allah Allah will put asar in it. You can only object if the author says that this is divine revelation and it works 100%, there's no chance of it not working. But the author has claimed nothing like that.

Now please answer my question, lets leave aside black magic cause you don't seem comfortable in answering that question:

Your first question implicates that it is Sihr so please:


Define Sihr, and also tell us the ways it can be done
If i read an ayat from Quran to make someone fall in love with me, it will be Sihr?


Please answer these questions :)

A person came to Hazrat Maulana Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi (RA) asking for a taweez. Hazrat said i don't know how to write them. He insisted so much that in the end hazrat wrote a taweez for him. Hazrat wrote:
Ya Allah Mein Jaanta nahi, yeh maanta nahi, to janay aur tera bunda.

Now all the non urdu speaking people here would say, SHIRK!

Hazrat Umar :anhu: gave Qaisar (badshah e Room) a taweez. He complained of a headache to hazrat Umar :anhu:. Hazrat Umar sent him a cap. Whenever the badshah wore it his headache vanished, but when he took of the cap, his headache returned. He then unstiched the cap and found a taweez in it with Bismillah written on it. Was it a taweez? How did Hazrat Umar :anhu: know that it will cure his headache?

Do you know the story when some Sahaba did a dum of Surah Fatiha on some non muslim guy and he was cured? He then gave Sahaba alot of goats? How did Sahaba know that Surah Fatiha will cure him?

:jazak:

[abuhajira]

Assalamu alaykum

In the OP we are discussing the chart. In the bottom of the chart these words are there

فرون - قارون - ہامان - شداد - نمرود - ..........
علیہ اللعنتہ ایشاں اگر نہ گ

I think that is persian. And the word laanath is there. Can any one of us please translate that.

:salam:

here is a more clear pic for those who can understand the farsi may read and translate


http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/6377b9568c.jpg

:ws:

[nameuser]

salaam: delete this baseless post....

hey! people, stop bugging brother abuhajira, i don't think he is responsible to give evidence of every baseless posts especially dr.ati's posts are always very baseless /hopless and no sense in all his posts he is just a peace disrupter...dr.ati, u always try to overact and try to show ur self that you are the smartest but to tell u the truth u have 'zero' knowledge! And remember an Arrogant is always a Loser!

i suggest dr.ati's posts should be deleted immediately to prevent further chaos in the forum.

dr.ati take ur issues to ur hanbali scholar and stop bugging Br. abuhajira by posting ur nuisance posts!

[xs11ax]

:salam:

the answer shall be:

jo ta'weel ki taraf bhinnak bhi daal de ik baar
hai majaal ke us ko jhoot ho naagawaar
pehle to hum tumko jhoot se bhagatay they
ab to ta'weel peh bhi tumhein karein gay khuwaar

Whoever looks at ta'weel even for once, how can he dislike lies. Before we used to deter you from lies, now we will also ridicule you for ta'weel!!

Hey just conjuring some prose up makes it kinda like Nostradamus ... Cryptic :)

For a moment let you imagination take you in the times of Sahaba. A person is in deathly throws with an immense migranne. He is contemplating getting his head knocked. A person gives him two small white round tablet and tells him to eat it and sleep in a dark area. The person does it, and voila he is fresh as a jumping jack. What would the ill fellow think the person was? A Sahir? or doctor giving asprin tablet .

Ok another more suitable example in the same line. A person is suffering heavy from congestion. He is finding is almost heavy to breath. His sinuses are severely blocking him. The same person comes put a bucket of water and heat it to to level of boiling. Put a dab of some sticky goo into it. mix it and make a potion. Tells the person to put his head on the bucket and cover him with a sheet! The child next to him says, oye..jadoooo! And couple of hours later the ill person is better from his congestion. Was the person a Sahir or a GP using vix vapour rub?

:salam:

so it's like a science that most people dont understand and the scientists have not yet discovered and explained it and therefore it seems strange to us?

that sounds reasonable to me. and along with moulana taliban's post and his example from hazrat Umar (rd) im fairly convinced. :jazak:

[umar_italy]

:salam:

I would personally appreciate if Mufti Abu Hajira Sahab and Maulana Taliban Sahab (and eventually others) could actually reply more in depth rather than asking questions to the debators.

There is a lot of confusion regarding these subjects, and if we not only get to hear almost always only the "salafi" opinion, but even while discussing with them we ask them to elaborate more their points rather than ourselves offering our own views, I don't think that such confusion will be erased; actually, the opposite: we will just offer them a further platform to spread their (mis)understanding, instead of clarifying the general public's comprehension of the matter at hand.

:jazak: and hope you won't mind my request.

[dr.ati]

So the thread has been moved to the deep dungeons of "Indepth" and the results have been anounced. Again the culprits are the bad Salafis. The justification for mentioning Qaroon, Hamaan , Namrood etc has been summarized as below by brother xs11ax.


:salam:

so it's like a science that most people dont understand and the scientists have not yet discovered and explained it and therefore it seems strange to us?



"So it is like a science that most people don't understand " Keep on innovating under this statement of an intellect. It has given an open hand to everyone. Do whatever you want to do in the name of Islam and the logic which shall be applied by the sincere followers at the end will be "So it is like a science that most people don't understand "


Puhanchee Wahi Pay Khak Jahan ka Khameer thaa

[xs11ax]

:salam:

I would personally appreciate if Mufti Abu Hajira Sahab and Maulana Taliban Sahab (and eventually others) could actually reply more in depth rather than asking questions to the debators.

There is a lot of confusion regarding these subjects, and if we not only get to hear almost always only the "salafi" opinion, but even while discussing with them we ask them to elaborate more their points rather than ourselves offering our own views, I don't think that such confusion will be erased; actually, the opposite: we will just offer them a further platform to spread their (mis)understanding, instead of clarifying the general public's comprehension of the matter at hand.

:jazak: and hope you won't mind my request.

:salam:

i think the problem here is that the answers have been left behind in the golden era of deoband and most ulama today do not have the understanding to explain these ambiguities as we have a culture of 'obey and do not ask questions' within deobandi ulama and awaam, and most people do not want to be labeled as being 'ghoomra' (lost) and deviated and just accept these things at face value without understanding them.

because of this there are not many ulama who have the understanding of such things and so cannot explain it when questioned by others. then the questioner either just accepts it at face value and not have the understanding of it like those before him, or goes away accepting it on the surface but carries around a doubt in his heart (like me), or completely goes off the teachings of deoband and may even go on to enter salafi'ism.

there was a time when indepth explanation was not needed for the awaam and they were happy to follow the ulama as instructed, but in today's age of the internet people are more exposed to different views and arguments so just asking people to accept what the ulama say without question is not going to work. if it carries on like this then we are going to see many traditionally deobandi people move away and align themselves with those who are more internet savvy and able to present their arguments in a more (apparent) coherent fashion.

if i understood the posts of moulana abu hajira and moulana taliban correctly, then i am content with their explanations. but not everybody has the good fortune to have 'moulana abu hajira's' or 'moulana taliban's'. may Allah increase them in knowledge.

[xs11ax]

:salam: doctor saheb,


The justification for mentioning Qaroon, Hamaan , Namrood

why do you have a problem with this? it has already been explained that those names have been taken to be cursed. Allah also curses abu lahab (lanat on him) in the quran and his name is written in the quran.


"So it is like a science that most people don't understand " Keep on innovating under this statement of an intellect. It has given an open hand to everyone. Do whatever you want to do in the name of Islam and the logic which shall be applied by the sincere followers at the end will be "So it is like a science that most people don't understand "

what would you have said to the people of the past who did not understand some points from the quran and hadith due to their lack of technology and understanding of the world and universe? indeed even now there are many things that we do not properly understand from the quran and hadith but we put this down to the lack of our own knowledge and understanding.

if these people were the auliya then their relationship with Allah was such that different abilities and knowledge were opened up to them as mentioned in the hadith...

...My servant does not come closer to Me with anything more dear to Me than that which I made obligatory upon him. My servant keeps coming closer to Me with more volunteer deeds, until I love him. When I love him, I become His ear by which he hears, his eyes by which he sees, his hand by which he holds and his foot by which he walks. If he asks Me any thing I shall give him. If he seeks My protection I shall grant him My protection...(Al-Bukhari 6021)

[FususAlHikam]

:salam:

i think the problem here is that the answers have been left behind in the golden era of deoband and most ulama today do not have the understanding to explain these ambiguities as we have a culture of 'obey and do not ask questions' within deobandi ulama and awaam, and most people do not want to be labeled as being 'ghoomra' (lost) and deviated and just accept these things at face value without understanding them.

because of this there are not many ulama who have the understanding of such things and so cannot explain it when questioned by others. then the questioner either just accepts it at face value and not have the understanding of it like those before him, or goes away accepting it on the surface but carries around a doubt in his heart (like me), or completely goes off the teachings of deoband and may even go on to enter salafi'ism.

there was a time when indepth explanation was not needed for the awaam and they were happy to follow the ulama as instructed, but in today's age of the internet people are more exposed to different views and arguments so just asking people to accept what the ulama say without question is not going to work. if it carries on like this then we are going to see many traditionally deobandi people move away and align themselves with those who are more internet savvy and able to present their arguments in a more (apparent) coherent fashion.

if i understood the posts of moulana abu hajira and moulana taliban correctly, then i am content with their explanations. but not everybody has the good fortune to have 'moulana abu hajira's' or 'moulana taliban's'. may Allah increase them in knowledge.

Here is a news flash for you Walter Cronkite, most alims (ulama) cannot even explain this taweez, only amil kamil can explain this taweez. This taweez btw doesnt only exist in Amal e Qurani, this is a very old taweez, Moulana Thanvi ra simply quoted it. If a person doesnt even know this much difference lol then what more do I have to say? Waste of breath.

If you want help with some amaliyaat issue come, if not then the Earth of Allah swt is vast, in the realm of love make your own name. Sorry if my words are harsh but how many times have you asked your doctor to explain all of the medical knowledge behind his deduction of your diagnosis and what ideas and theories he utilized to arrive at your method of treatment? Or how many times have you asked the mufti to explain all of the usool and whatever else fuqaha utilize to arrive at their fatwa? It is near impossible for a practitioner of a particular field to explain the details of their science to someone who is foreign to it. If someone within the field asks then thats a different issue, you can speak within the vocabulary, the person will understand.

Why is the blessed name of "Allah" written in such a fashion? What is that word in between? Why this particular way of handling this taweez? These are not arcane secrets or something you just have to believe in, rest assured we are not leading the masses astray into kufr, Alhamdulillah we have at least an iota of the fear of Allah swt, there is a method to this madness - this madness is just difficult to explain to a sane person.

xs11ax this wasnt directed to you but wanted to make a reply to the thread in general to all those reading, accidentally replied to yours i dont know how to change it.

[Abdul Qaadir]

The sign of people of innovation is that they never bring proof from Quraan and Sunnah, they only bring doubts.

reading this thread has been absolutely shocking, some members are so warped they have been saying things like "prove black magic is shirk", and "Some ulama made it permissible to use the help of a saahir to remove black magic from someone."

For God's sake think about your Eemaan before you write this kind of stuff and try to justify black magic just because of your blind love for Akabireen and Buzurgs

Remember, when the Angel of Death comes for your soul and you will be put in the grave, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi and Hajji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki will not be with you to help you. You will all have to answer for yourself.

[umar_italy]

:salam:

i think the problem here is that the answers have been left behind in the golden era of deoband and most ulama today do not have the understanding to explain these ambiguities as we have a culture of 'obey and do not ask questions' within deobandi ulama and awaam, and most people do not want to be labeled as being 'ghoomra' (lost) and deviated and just accept these things at face value without understanding them.

because of this there are not many ulama who have the understanding of such things and so cannot explain it when questioned by others. then the questioner either just accepts it at face value and not have the understanding of it like those before him, or goes away accepting it on the surface but carries around a doubt in his heart (like me), or completely goes off the teachings of deoband and may even go on to enter salafi'ism.

there was a time when indepth explanation was not needed for the awaam and they were happy to follow the ulama as instructed, but in today's age of the internet people are more exposed to different views and arguments so just asking people to accept what the ulama say without question is not going to work. if it carries on like this then we are going to see many traditionally deobandi people move away and align themselves with those who are more internet savvy and able to present their arguments in a more (apparent) coherent fashion.

if i understood the posts of moulana abu hajira and moulana taliban correctly, then i am content with their explanations. but not everybody has the good fortune to have 'moulana abu hajira's' or 'moulana taliban's'. may Allah increase them in knowledge.

:ws:

Very interesting analysis, I do agree with you brother.

And amin to your du'a'.

:ws:

[umar_italy]

Here is a news flash for you Walter Cronkite, most alims (ulama) cannot even explain this taweez, only amil kamil can explain this taweez. This taweez btw doesnt only exist in Amal e Qurani, this is a very old taweez, Moulana Thanvi ra simply quoted it. If a person doesnt even know this much difference lol then what more do I have to say? Waste of breath.

If you want help with some amaliyaat issue come, if not then the Earth of Allah swt is vast, in the realm of love make your own name. Sorry if my words are harsh but how many times have you asked your doctor to explain all of the medical knowledge behind his deduction of your diagnosis and what ideas and theories he utilized to arrive at your method of treatment? Or how many times have you asked the mufti to explain all of the usool and whatever else fuqaha utilize to arrive at their fatwa? It is near impossible for a practitioner of a particular field to explain the details of their science to someone who is foreign to it. If someone within the field asks then thats a different issue, you can speak within the vocabulary, the person will understand.

Why is the blessed name of "Allah" written in such a fashion? What is that word in between? Why this particular way of handling this taweez? These are not arcane secrets or something you just have to believe in, rest assured we are not leading the masses astray into kufr, Alhamdulillah we have at least an iota of the fear of Allah swt, there is a method to this madness - this madness is just difficult to explain to a sane person.

xs11ax this wasnt directed to you but wanted to make a reply to the thread in general to all those reading, accidentally replied to yours i dont know how to change it.

:salam: Shaykh.

In case your post was directed to my request for more explaination, please understand that I didn't intend to ask detailed explaination about every single methods of ta'wizat, how to write them, and so on. For that, I would need to study from an amil myself, and I'm sure it would take years.

What I rather intended to ask was more clarifications regarding the issue in general; i.e. if Ta'wizat are permissible, their proof, if the use of numbers is permissible and how so, the definition of black magic (what it actually is and what is not), the criteria for a ta'wiz to be permissible or impermissible, etc.
I don't need to know the "why" to each of them, nor "how it works"; we just need the orthodox, "Deobandi" stance to be clearly expounded rather than hiding ourselves between other questions directed to our opponents, thus giving them further platform for spreading their understanding, instead of trying to offer "our" understanding on the issue.

The appropriate comparison would be with someone asking regarding a question of 'Aqidah, a Salafi offering his understanding of it, and our quarters engaging him with more questions, instead of replying to the original question.

:jazak:

[dr.ati]

[QUOTE=xs11ax;629417]
:salam:

why do you have a problem with this? it has already been explained that those names have been taken to be cursed. Allah also curses abu lahab (lanat on him) in the quran and his name is written in the quran.

Muhtaram my point is that what is the proof of such Taweezaat in Quran and Sunnah and from where Ml Ashraf Ali Thanvi got this knowledge that by sending curses on Namrood , Shidaad , Qaroon etc would yield some specific results? Is Allah dependant on some dialing codes and to "activate" his Mashia't , we have to dial them? Honestly brother xs11ax , tell me onething. Do you expect Hadrat Abubakar and Hadrat Umar (Radiallahuanhum) to make such Taweezaa't?

what would you have said to the people of the past who did not understand some points from the quran and hadith due to their lack of technology and understanding of the world and universe? indeed even now there are many things that we do not properly understand from the quran and hadith but we put this down to the lack of our own knowledge and understanding.

SO what you are trying to say is that as Eiman Bil Ghaib was a condition for the early Muslims , we have to bring Eiman Bil Ghaib over such bizarre Taweezaa't? My brother , it is only thr right of Muhammad sws that his words should be taken blindly not anyone else.

if these people were the auliya then their relationship with Allah was such that different abilities and knowledge were opened up to them as mentioned in the hadith...

What is "auliya"? kindly give a unubersally accepted definition of this term. It is an unspecific term in which one can hide when exposed to arguments.

...My servant does not come closer to Me with anything more dear to Me than that which I made obligatory upon him. My servant keeps coming closer to Me with more volunteer deeds, until I love him. When I love him, I become His ear by which he hears, his eyes by which he sees, his hand by which he holds and his foot by which he walks. If he asks Me any thing I shall give him. If he seeks My protection I shall grant him My protection...(Al-Bukhari 6021)

There is a Hadith in Musnad Imam Abu Hanifa ra in the book of Tibb and let is try to grasp what this Hadith means. It is probably related to the issue as it has been recorded in the book of Tibb.

"The Prophet of Allah said that it is not fair for a Muslim to disgrace himself. Ibn Umar asked that how can a Muslim disgrace himself. The Prophet of Allah said that by going after something of which he has no power"

[Abdullah Muavia]

The point to ponder here is that from where these weird things popped into Islam and how on earth did the writers of such bizarre stuff came to know that saying something so many times and writing something in a specific format can yield some specific results. If such things are so good then why do people defend them only ? Why not to practice and preach them openly instead of shying away from them these days. For how long shall we be looking for the justifications of our racial creeds and somehow fit each and everything our "Akaabir" said into Islam? I really don't know how a rational mind will accept these Taweeazaat with weird numerology and symbolism.

Do you deny the status of "Kashf" and "Ilhaam"?
All of these spiritual medications are the produce of Kashf/ilhaam.
You can find out a lot many such examples of Makashfaat in the books of Salf.
The books of our Akaabireen are Alhamdulillah testified and verified in the light of Qur'an, Sunnah and Salf-e-Sualiheen.
This is not necessary that everything is to be mentioned in Quran and Sunnah or performed by salf in the same manners. What the necessary is to have the Asal of it. And the Asal of such supplications and medications is Makaashfaat. It is not necessary to follow each and every word of Akabireen. These amulets are not ma'mool biha in Deobandis because most of the didn't follow it, not because it is Shirk. It was a specific way of treatment of Thanvi R.A on the basis of his knowledge.

[dr.ati]

Do you deny the status of "Kashf" and "Ilhaam"?
All of these spiritual medications are the produce of Kashf/ilhaam.
You can find out a lot many such examples of Makashfaat in the books of Salf.
The books of our Akaabireen are Alhamdulillah testified and verified in the light of Qur'an, Sunnah and Salf-e-Sualiheen.
This is not necessary that everything is to be mentioned in Quran and Sunnah or performed by salf in the same manners. What the necessary is to have the Asal of it. And the Asal of such supplications and medications is Makaashfaat. It is not necessary to follow each and every word of Akabireen. These amulets are not ma'mool biha in Deobandis because most of the didn't follow it, not because it is Shirk. It was a specific way of treatment of Thanvi R.A on the basis of his knowledge.

So should i conclude that it was through kashaf/Ilham that ml Ashraf Ali Thanvi came to know that by writting/reciting the specfic words those specific results will be yeilded?

[Taliban1]

:salam:

Dr.ati sahib, mein ne dekhnay ka keh aap ne meri post ka jawab nahi denay ka.

I wish i knew u when i was in Karachi and i would've shown you the blood on all the walls in my house.

[London786]

Umar if you get this message within the next 12 hours then please formulate the question and I shall ask hazrat ajmeri db as he is an expert on such issues.

[Aram]

this is confusing :confused:

for those of you who are against taweez
Do you believe that verses from the Quran can be used as "black magic" in a negative sense? :confused:

[dr.ati]

:salam:

Dr.ati sahib, mein ne dekhnay ka keh aap ne meri post ka jawab nahi denay ka.

I wish i knew u when i was in Karachi and i would've shown you the blood on all the walls in my house.

:salam:

Maulana Muhtaram let me the reason of my opposition to such acts in very simple words.

1. There is no proof for of writing such Taweeza't in Quran and Sunnah. If we don't keep these things limited to what is proven from Quran and Sunnah then how will you refute the extremist Barelvi Amils ( Who are mubtadis according to both of us) who know of no limits when practicing such sorcery? Whatever argument you have in their refutation can be applied by them on you on a bit lower level.

2.Accepted that Ml Ashraf Ali Thanvi got such a Kashaf/ilham through which he came to know that by saying such and such so so many times will produce such and such results then was it a part of the Kashaf that he was asked to generalize his kashaf for the benefit of general public? I think there would have been no trouble if he had kept his Kashaf to himself. Molvi A raza khan deemed his Kanzul A'maal as the "Ilhami translation of Quran" , on what basis do you refute his Kashaf? The thing is that if one indoctrinates such Majhoo'l things like Kashaf/Ilhaam and starts extracting religious stuff from it then even if they are true , due to their shapelessness , they can be easily misused.
I think we both shall agree that such claims of Kashaf/Ilham have mostly been false and the claimants had some personal interests behind such claims. Take the example of Yousaf Kadhab who claimed Prophet-hood on the basis of a certificate he got from Prophet PBUH through Kashaf. I have read the court proceedings of that case and the judge could not catch him on the basis of his false kashaf because first of all it is an unfalsifiable claim and secondly the history of Sufis is full of such claims. All what the judge was left with was that he questioned his religious education and when he even failed to name any three books of Hadiths , the judge rejected his "Kashaf" and sentenced him to death.

3. With all my honesty i think that most you people will never make such Taweeza't and it is being defended by you as it is coming from a scholar of your school of thought. Most of you will not give such a weird Taweez a second look if you did not know that it is from Behishti Zaiwar so that shows the amount of subjectivity and objectivity present in the arguments of defense of such Taweeza't.

4. I can not imagine for a second that Umar Ibn Al Khatab radiallahuanhu will ever prescribe such Taweeza't to a person full of numerology and Lanats on Hamaan , Qaroon , Firawn etc. Do you expect?

:jazak:

[Abdul Qaadir]

A true Ilhaam can never contradict Quraan and Sunnah. The true Ilhaam which is experienced by the Muhaddath is always a confirmation of Quraan and Sunnah, an inspiration of glad tidings, a premonition about something. If someone claims that he receives Ilhaam to do some bid'ah or some act which is contrary to Shariah, then either he is lying or it is a Shaytaani Ilhaam.

This is the case with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani. His entire basis for claiming Nabuwwah is through his alleged Ilhaam. So remember, Ilhaam is not a foundation of Islam, the foundation of Islaam is only Quraan and Sunnah. If Ilhaam agrees with Quraan and Sunnah, then it is something good, but if Ilhaam goes against Quraan and Sunnah, then it must be discarded as Ilhaam of Shaytaan, not Ilhaam of Rahmaan.

So if you deviate from this principle, then you will end up destroying the Religion, and create an entire new religion (like the Qadiyanis and Baha'is did) based on all sorts of false Ilhaam.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Br. Abdul Qaadir

Brother unlike, Dr Ati Sahib, you believe that sihr and jin possession exists:

1. What is the prescribed method of detecting sihr, jin possession.
2. What is the cure for a person affected by sihr or jin possession.

You can share experiences of such a cure. Normally I don't like armchair analysts.

Have you experienced the kind of incident I have posted in my earlier post.

Secondly
No one on this SF could fulfill my requirement of a book of deen covering matters from taharah to wiraasath with pre-condition:

1. each ruling should be suffixed by either a ayah or a saheeh hadeeth.
2. if there are multiple ahadeeth, the reason for chosing one particular hadeeth.

I shall be very thankful to you, if you can help me. I have hope in you.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Dr. Ati Sahib.

Doctor sahib in the scan presented on the first post what was the following words in the second line kept out of the red rectangle.
Was there anything to be hidden.

فرون - قارون - ہامان - شداد - نمرود
__________________
علیہ اللعنتہ ایشاں اگر نہ گ

[Abdul Qaadir]

Assalamu alaykum

Br. Abdul Qaadir

Brother unlike, Dr Ati Sahib, you believe that sihr and jin possession exists:

Is this true?


1. What is the prescribed method of detecting sihr, jin possession.

Look for the symptoms, such as revulsion to recitation of Quraan, frequent nightmares, strange speech coming from the jinn inside a person, sudden madness, sudden dislike of one's spouse, loss of memory, imagining you did something which you didn't.

All of these symptoms of sihr and jinn possession are proven from Quraan and Sunnah.



2. What is the cure for a person affected by sihr or jin possession.

The biggest cure is to supplicate to Allaah to remove the black magic. Reciting Quraan, especially the Muwadhatayn [Al-Falaq and An-Naas], Ruqyah of the Quraan [especially Al-Faatihah], and also destroying the amulets, threads, knots, and other elements which are used for the witchcraft.

All of these methods are proven from the Quraan and Sunnah.


You can share experiences of such a cure. Normally I don't like armchair analysts.

Alhamdulillaah, I don't have any experience with black magic, and don't even know anyone who does. The symptoms and cures which I mentioned to you are straight out of Quraan and Sunnah.

[ahamed_sharif]

Is this true?



Look for the symptoms, such as revulsion to recitation of Quraan, frequent nightmares, strange speech coming from the jinn inside a person, sudden madness, sudden dislike of one's spouse, loss of memory, imagining you did something which you didn't.

All of these symptoms of sihr and jinn possession are proven from Quraan and Sunnah.




The biggest cure is to supplicate to Allaah to remove the black magic. Reciting Quraan, especially the Muwadhatayn [Al-Falaq and An-Naas], Ruqyah of the Quraan [especially Al-Faatihah], and also destroying the amulets, threads, knots, and other elements which are used for the witchcraft.

All of these methods are proven from the Quraan and Sunnah.



Alhamdulillaah, I don't have any experience with black magic, and don't even know anyone who does. The symptoms and cures which I mentioned to you are straight out of Quraan and Sunnah.


Look for the symptoms, such as revulsion to recitation of Quraan, frequent nightmares, strange speech coming from the jinn inside a person, sudden madness, sudden dislike of one's spouse, loss of memory, imagining you did something which you didn't.

You didn't quote any ayah or a saheeh hadeeth for this.


Alhamdulillaah, I don't have any experience with black magic, and don't even know anyone who does. The symptoms and cures which I mentioned to you are straight out of Quraan and Sunnah



All of these symptoms of sihr and jinn possession are proven from Quraan and Sunnah.

????


The biggest cure is to supplicate to Allaah to remove the black magic.

We do that for all matters.


Reciting Quraan, especially the Muwadhatayn [Al-Falaq and An-Naas], Ruqyah of the Quraan [especially Al-Faatihah],

Again you didn't quote an ayah or a saheeh hadeeth.


and also destroying the amulets, threads, knots, and other elements which are used for the witchcraft.

You don't know what sihr is. The opponent saahir never discloses what he has done, and where are the articles of sihr.



Alhamdulillaah, I don't have any experience with black magic, and don't even know anyone who does.

Armchair analysts can't understand the ground reality. Whatever experiences we have shared are practical ones.


Secondly
No one on this SF could fulfill my requirement of a book of deen covering matters from taharah to wiraasath with pre-condition:

1. each ruling should be suffixed by either a ayah or a saheeh hadeeth.
2. if there are multiple ahadeeth, the reason for chosing one particular hadeeth.

I shall be very thankful to you, if you can help me. I have hope in you.

Again I am losing hope.

[Abdul Qaadir]

I didn't quote because these are basic knowledge. However, for your benefit, let me mention the proofs:

Reciting Quraan, which causes revulsion to a devil. Hence, why before reciting Quraan we recite Ta'awwudh which means seeking refuge in Allaah from the devil. Many virtues, for example, the Prophet :saw: said, "The devil flees from the home in which Al-Baqarah is recited."

Nightmares: As proven by the Sunnah, a bad dream is from the devil, the Prophet :saw: said "dreams are of three kinds", they are Roohaani (from Allaah), Nafsaani (from yourself), and Shaytaani (from the devil)

Jinn possession causes insanity:

“Those who eat Ribaa [usury] will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaytaan (Satan) leading him to insanity” [al-Baqarah 2:275]

Separation between husband and wife as symptom of black magic
And from these (Haaroot and Maaroot) people learn that by which they cause separation between man and his wife [al-Baqarah 2:202]

loss of memory and imagining you did something you didn't
when the Prophet :saw: had black magic done on him, he imagined he had been with his wives when he hadn't

Cures:
Ruqyah from the Quraan, especially al-Faatihah.
Some Sahaabah came across a tribe whose chief had been stung by a scorpion or bitten by a poisonous snake. The tribe asked someone from the Sahaabah to cure him, and the sahaabi recited Al-Faatihah over him, and the chief was cured. They took a flock of sheep as reward, and when the Prophet :saw: was informed about it, he also took some sheep from the flock to approve of this action
Therefore, Surah al Faatihah is a cure for diseases, including black magic

Destroying the traces of witchcraft

This is how the Prophet :saw: was cured, because the threads and traces which were used by the Jewish magician, Lubaid ibn al-'Aasim to cause witchcraft on the Prophet :saw: were destroyed.

[dr.ati]

Assalamu alaykum

Dr. Ati Sahib.

Doctor sahib in the scan presented on the first post what was the following words in the second line kept out of the red rectangle.
Was there anything to be hidden.

فرون - قارون - ہامان - شداد - نمرود
__________________
علیہ اللعنتہ ایشاں اگر نہ گ

:salam:

Brother it is a mixture of Arabic and Persian. A clear scan of the page has been provided by Maulana Abu Hajira which means that "Lanat on them and those who follow them if they dont stop then they get destroyed" . Behishti Zaiwar is widely available and i don't think so that anything was intentionally camouflaged under the red line as it could have been checked out easily.

:jazak:

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

Brother it is a mixture of Arabic and Persian. A clear scan of the page has been provided by Maulana Abu Hajira which means that "Lanat on them and those who follow them if they dont stop then they get destroyed" . Behishti Zaiwar is widely available and i don't think so that anything was intentionally camouflaged under the red line as it could have been checked out easily.

:jazak:

The Salaf differed over the use of Tamaa'im (amulets). Some said it is absolutely forbidden, and other said it is allowed but under very strict conditions, one of them is that the amulet has to be written in Arabic ONLY, should consist of Quraanic ayaat.

however, the strongest opinion based on Adilla is that using any amulet, tameemah, ta'weedh, etc., is absolutely forbidden, even if it consists of Quraanic Ayaat or Names of Allaah.

[dr.ati]

Hazrat Umar :anhu: gave Qaisar (badshah e Room) a taweez. He complained of a headache to hazrat Umar :anhu:. Hazrat Umar sent him a cap. Whenever the badshah wore it his headache vanished, but when he took of the cap, his headache returned. He then unstiched the cap and found a taweez in it with Bismillah written on it. Was it a taweez? How did Hazrat Umar :anhu: know that it will cure his headache?

:jazak:

:salam:

Maulana Sahib can you provide a reference to this story?

:jazak:

[dr.ati]

PS. Brother Ahmed Sharif I just compared the scan i had posted in the OP with the original page as found in the hard copy and now i think that you are right in your analysis that the red line was intentionally drawn at that position to hide the "curse on them" portion.

[Idil_]

Why should we do anything else other than advice and guide someone who has chosen unsuitable partner for themselves??

Why does Shaykh Tanwi say we must right stuff on pieces of paper and hide it between cracks of rock in order to seperate people?? A3oudubillah, if a major Deobandi scholar believes this, then no wonder why sihr and all kinds of superstitions are endemic to such societies, I mean just look at the amount of black majic threads by those who think or are indeed suffering from that!! Wallahi it is beyond shocking. Inaalillah wa inna ileyhi raji3oun.

[Taliban1]

:salam:

Maulana Sahib can you provide a reference to this story?

:jazak:

:ws:

Futohaat us Shaam

:jazak:

[Taliban1]

:salam:

Maulana Muhtaram let me the reason of my opposition to such acts in very simple words.

1. There is no proof for of writing such Taweeza't in Quran and Sunnah. If we don't keep these things limited to what is proven from Quran and Sunnah then how will you refute the extremist Barelvi Amils ( Who are mubtadis according to both of us) who know of no limits when practicing such sorcery? Whatever argument you have in their refutation can be applied by them on you on a bit lower level.

2.Accepted that Ml Ashraf Ali Thanvi got such a Kashaf/ilham through which he came to know that by saying such and such so so many times will produce such and such results then was it a part of the Kashaf that he was asked to generalize his kashaf for the benefit of general public? I think there would have been no trouble if he had kept his Kashaf to himself. Molvi A raza khan deemed his Kanzul A'maal as the "Ilhami translation of Quran" , on what basis do you refute his Kashaf? The thing is that if one indoctrinates such Majhoo'l things like Kashaf/Ilhaam and starts extracting religious stuff from it then even if they are true , due to their shapelessness , they can be easily misused.
I think we both shall agree that such claims of Kashaf/Ilham have mostly been false and the claimants had some personal interests behind such claims. Take the example of Yousaf Kadhab who claimed Prophet-hood on the basis of a certificate he got from Prophet PBUH through Kashaf. I have read the court proceedings of that case and the judge could not catch him on the basis of his false kashaf because first of all it is an unfalsifiable claim and secondly the history of Sufis is full of such claims. All what the judge was left with was that he questioned his religious education and when he even failed to name any three books of Hadiths , the judge rejected his "Kashaf" and sentenced him to death.

3. With all my honesty i think that most you people will never make such Taweeza't and it is being defended by you as it is coming from a scholar of your school of thought. Most of you will not give such a weird Taweez a second look if you did not know that it is from Behishti Zaiwar so that shows the amount of subjectivity and objectivity present in the arguments of defense of such Taweeza't.

4. I can not imagine for a second that Umar Ibn Al Khatab radiallahuanhu will ever prescribe such Taweeza't to a person full of numerology and Lanats on Hamaan , Qaroon , Firawn etc. Do you expect?

:jazak:

:ws:

1. Okay no proof. Accepted

2. I didn't say he got kashf/Ilham. So this point is rendered useless. And to be very honest with you, i don't trust kashfs too much neither do I believe in them. Kasfhs should be kept to one's self and not made public. This is experience that alot of kashfs are shaytaani.

3. I didn't defend it

4. No i don't expect.

Well, Dr.ati sahib, to be honest regarding these taweezaat stuff, i'm more inclined to the Salafi side. These should be ignored and not made public. This is the honest answer from me. But to claim that Hazrat was a jadoogar is absolute Ilzaam. That's why i asked you what is Jadoo, first define it then we will know if he was a jadoogar or not.

:jazak:

[dr.ati]

:ws:

1. Okay no proof. Accepted

2. I didn't say he got kashf/Ilham. So this point is rendered useless. And to be very honest with you, i don't trust kashfs too much neither do I believe in them. Kasfhs should be kept to one's self and not made public. This is experience that alot of kashfs are shaytaani.

3. I didn't defend it

4. No i don't expect.

Well, Dr.ati sahib, to be honest regarding these taweezaat stuff, i'm more inclined to the Salafi side. These should be ignored and not made public. This is the honest answer from me. But to claim that Hazrat was a jadoogar is absolute Ilzaam. That's why i asked you what is Jadoo, first define it then we will know if he was a jadoogar or not.

:jazak:

:salam:

Jazakallah Maulana Muhtaram. I think that the thread is solved. I did not call Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi a magician.His Quran's translation has always been with me since my childhood and i shall think twice before making bad comments about him. I seek Allahs's forgiveness if i have said any such thing.
I highly appreciate your honesty and unbiased judgment.
:jazak:

[Taliban1]

:salam:

The real problem respected Dr sahib is that, the way these salafi people go about these things, it will never ever make anyone change his mind even if it is 100% clear shirk.

Things should be pointed out in a respectable manner rather than a repulsive manner :)

:jazak:

[Abdul Qaadir]

Why should we do anything else other than advice and guide someone who has chosen unsuitable partner for themselves??

Why does Shaykh Tanwi say we must right stuff on pieces of paper and hide it between cracks of rock in order to seperate people?? A3oudubillah, if a major Deobandi scholar believes this, then no wonder why sihr and all kinds of superstitions are endemic to such societies, I mean just look at the amount of black majic threads by those who think or are indeed suffering from that!! Wallahi it is beyond shocking. Inaalillah wa inna ileyhi raji3oun.

You're right...its not a coincidence that so many people from Indian subcontinent claim they are suffering from black magic. At first I used to think that there is just an obsession with Jinn in South Asia due to old ladies spreading a lot of jinn stories to frighten little kids to behave. Kind of like a boogeyman thing. But now I think that the amount of ta'weedh being circulated is actually the reason. People acquire these ta'weedh without even bothering to open it and see what exactly the peer or maulwi has written in it. 99% of the time its some grid with numbers. The Deobandis know exactly what these numbers and symbols mean, but they do not want to inform the general public.

Always beware of "Secret knowledge". There is something very sinister going on. I'm beginning to think that these numbers are meant to symbolize various jinns and shayateen that are being invoked to do some magic. It's an open secret that Sufis and other like minded sects believe its okay to fight black magic with black magic, and to seek protection from the "evil eye" using black magic!

There is a saying, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

[dr.ati]

:salam:

The real problem respected Dr sahib is that, the way these salafi people go about these things, it will never ever make anyone change his mind even if it is 100% clear shirk.

Things should be pointed out in a respectable manner rather than a repulsive manner :)

:jazak:

:salam:

Maulana Muhtaram

Chaman main Talakh Nawayi meri Gawara kar
Kay Kabhi Zehar bhi karta hay kar e Taryaaqi

:jazak:

[Maripat]

Why does Shaykh Tanwi ....

:salam:
Thanwi not Tanwi. May Allah Most High have Mercy on him, raise his stature, purify his inner self and fill his tomb with light.
Wassalam

[Taliban1]

:salam:

Maulana Muhtaram

Chaman main Talakh Nawayi meri Gawara kar
Kay Kabhi Zehar bhi karta hay kar e Taryaaqi

:jazak:

:ws:

Yeh Zehr, Zehr e qatil sabit ho raha hai.

Sheikh, you asked when a deobandi does dogdy stuff we defend him while when a brelwi does we don't.

The thing is sheikh, you see the overall Aqeedah of a person. If his overall Aqeedah is correct and he does something which is un-understandable then you give the person the benefit of the doubt. But if the aqeedah is well known to be corrupt then you don't give him the benefit of the doubt.

For example, When the kuffar came running to Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiqui رضي الله عنه about the Mairaaj waqiya. Hazrat Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه didn't ask them oh, what the waqiya, how did it happen. What was the distance travelled in one night? Nothing of that sort..

He just asked, Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم said it?
They answered Yes. He said, If he said it, then it's true...

Hope you get my point.

The difference is, My belovedest Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم was a Nabi and He was Perfect. No chance of a mistake from him.

But,

Sheikh's are not perfect. I've mentioned it already in the ta'addud threads. We take what is in line with Quran and Sunnah and we leave what is not. Every insaan makes mistakes. If shuyookh did not make mistakes they would have been Anbiya.

So when the overall aqeedah of a person is good, then you can't insult him using some of his mistakes.

I'm not a big fan of these taweezaats myself. They ruin the aqeedah of a person. But i don't see them Haram. Kashf is also another thing which should not be advertised. It should be kept with yourself. It ruins people.

And personally, I have a serious doubt that this book is written by Hazrat Hakeem ul Ummah (RA) himself.

:jazak:

[Abdul Qaadir]

:ws:

Yeh Zehr, Zehr e qatil sabit ho raha hai.

Sheikh, you asked when a deobandi does dogdy stuff we defend him while when a brelwi does we don't.

The thing is sheikh, you see the overall Aqeedah of a person. If his overall Aqeedah is correct and he does something which is un-understandable then you give the person the benefit of the doubt. But if the aqeedah is well known to be corrupt then you don't give him the benefit of the doubt.

For example, When the kuffar came running to Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiqui رضي الله عنه about the Mairaaj waqiya. Hazrat Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه didn't ask them oh, what the waqiya, how did it happen. What was the distance travelled in one night? Nothing of that sort..

He just asked, Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم said it?
They answered Yes. He said, If he said it, then it's true...

Hope you get my point.

The difference is, My belovedest Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم was a Nabi and He was Perfect. No chance of a mistake from him.

But,

Sheikh's are not perfect. I've mentioned it already in the ta'addud threads. We take what is in line with Quran and Sunnah and we leave what is not. Every insaan makes mistakes. If shuyookh did not make mistakes they would have been Anbiya.

So when the overall aqeedah of a person is good, then you can't insult him using some of his mistakes.

I'm not a big fan of these taweezaats myself. They ruin the aqeedah of a person. But i don't see them Haram. Kashf is also another thing which should not be advertised. It should be kept with yourself. It ruins people.

And personally, I have a serious doubt that this book is written by Hazrat Hakeem ul Ummah (RA) himself.

:jazak:

You have a serious doubt that Beheshti Zewar and Amal e Quraani are written by Ashraf Ali Thanwi?

On what basis do you say this is doubtful? Secondly you say that ta'weezaat ruins a person's aqeedah, yet you refuse to declare them as haraam?! Does it make sense? What kind of logic is this? If something ruins your aqeedah it can still be halaal?

[Aram]

did not Imam Ahmad RH, Ibn Taymiyyah RH and Ibn Qayyim RH amongst others say taweez was permissible based on conditons such as they are ayats from the quran or duas from sunnah?

people seem to be mixing up sihr with taweez used as ruqyah, unless ofcourse they are saying that quranic ayats can be used as sihr???? everyones ignoring my question :cry:

[Abdul Qaadir]

did not Imam Ahmad RH, Ibn Taymiyyah RH and Ibn Qayyim RH amongst others say taweez was permissible based on conditons such as they are ayats from the quran or duas from sunnah?

people seem to be mixing up sihr with taweez used as ruqyah, unless ofcourse they are saying that quranic ayats can be used as sihr???? everyones ignoring my question :cry:

Even if they did say ta'weedh is permissible, they put strict conditions as you mentioned. They must be clear, written in Arabic, consist of Quraanic Ayaat or the Names of Allaah written in Arabic.

But the common ta'weez you find in the Indian subcontinent which consist of weird symbols, mysterious numbers and patters, writing in Urdu, and names of Jinns.

Like for example the ta'weezaat of the supposed Hakeem ul Ummat Ashraf Ali Thanwi which you can find in Beheshti Zevar and Amal e Quraani. also his magic formulas to create hatred between two individuals.

[Aram]

Even if they did say ta'weedh is permissible, they put strict conditions as you mentioned. They must be clear, written in Arabic, consist of Quraanic Ayaat or the Names of Allaah written in Arabic.

But the common ta'weez you find in the Indian subcontinent which consist of weird symbols, mysterious numbers and patters, writing in Urdu, and names of Jinns.

Like for example the ta'weezaat of the supposed Hakeem ul Ummat Ashraf Ali Thanwi which you can find in Beheshti Zevar and Amal e Quraani. also his magic formulas to create hatred between two individuals.

magic formulas?, was it not a dua from the Quran?
can ayats from The quran be used as sihr?

[Abdul Qaadir]

magic formulas?, was it not a dua from the Quran?

no it's not a Du'a. Allaah says that He put animosity between them. How is that a du'a?

The formula is that Ashraf Ali Thanwi said to write the ayah on a Bhooj stone, and then write the word "sihr" vertically and horizontally to make the shape of a cross, and then in the four corners write "Allaah", and then bury it between two graves!

A true Muwahhid would get goosebumps from reading such a formula. It is clearly black magic.

It is very common fact that people who practice sihr use some Quraanic ayaat in order to deceive the people to think the ta'weedh or formula is something Islamic, but it is the biggest deception.

For example, Hakeem ul ummat, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi also has another formula where he uses Surah al Faatihah...but he writes it in disorder:

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1773/9677484/17902368/301670464.jpg

[Aram]

no it's not a Du'a. Allaah says that He put animosity between them. How is that a du'a?

The formula is that Ashraf Ali Thanwi said to write the ayah on a Bhooj stone, and then write the word "sihr" vertically and horizontally to make the shape of a cross, and then in the four corners write "Allaah", and then bury it between two graves!

A true Muwahhid would get goosebumps from reading such a formula. It is clearly black magic.

It is very common fact that people who practice sihr use some Quraanic ayaat in order to deceive the people to think the ta'weedh or formula is something Islamic, but it is the biggest deception.

For example, Hakeem ul ummat, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi also has another formula where he uses Surah al Faatihah...but he writes it in disorder:



apologies i was supposed to say ayat from the quran not dua
i can't comment on the magic squares etc as i have no knowledge of it and neither would i feel comfortable practising it, but as the for Quranic ayats being used to cause separation between two people im just confused as it seems that people are suggesting Quranic ayats can be used in a negative sense? im not sure if that says sihr in the box, i thought it was a broken line maybe to represent the breaking of bond between two people, wallahu alam

the rest is an urdu line asking for seperation between two people but the main thing in the taweez is the ayat itself, some people can call this ruqyah too so for example someone whose daughter falls in love with a non-muslim who is taking her towards the wrong path

as for those who perform black magic who do they call upon? i was under the impression they called upon the shayateen amongst the jinn and that is why it is shirk??

[Abdul Qaadir]

apologies i was supposed to say ayat from the quran not dua
i can't comment on the magic squares etc as i have no knowledge of it and neither would i feel comfortable practising it, but as the for Quranic ayats being used to cause separation between two people im just confused as it seems that people are suggesting Quranic ayats can be used in a negative sense? im not sure if that says sihr in the box, i thought it was a broken line maybe to represent the breaking of bond between two people, wallahu alam

the rest is an urdu line asking for seperation between two people but the main thing in the taweez is the ayat itself, some people can call this ruqyah too so for example someone whose daughter falls in love with a non-muslim who is taking her towards the wrong path

as for those who perform black magic who do they call upon? i was under the impression they called upon the shayateen amongst the jinn and that is why it is shirk??

The Ayah is an action of Allaah. Only Allaah has the Right to create hatred between souls.

Other Ayaat in Quraan says how Allaah created man from dust. So does it mean you can take that Ayah and use it as a ruqyah to create human life like how Allaah creates human life?

As you said, black magic is shirk because it involves calling upon the Shayateen. Now let me ask you, what do you think these mysterious numbers and patters that are so common in Ta'weezaat really are? These are codes and secret ways of invoking various devils and jinns. The way the ta'weez are folded in special ways, tied in special knots...these are the methods which the peers and mullahs use to invoke the shayateen.

[dr.ati]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBVUGqqYd9A&feature=related

As i have said earlier that i am more inclined towards not believing in magic but can someone who has some sound knowledge of old occult Jewish kabalah,numerology and symbolism expound on this ^ video?

[Aram]

The Ayah is an action of Allaah. Only Allaah has the Right to create hatred between souls.

Other Ayaat in Quraan says how Allaah created man from dust. So does it mean you can take that Ayah and use it as a ruqyah to create human life like how Allaah creates human life?

I am pretty sure those people that use the taweez have the belief that the ayat alone does not cause something to happen, rather it is trust in Allah

if they believed they could create human life or cause hatred between people themselves why would they need to use the Quranic ayat at all? :confused: they obviously have trust in Allah and that is why they use the ayats because they believe Allah will make something happen, not the ayat itself

[Abdul Qaadir]

I am pretty sure those people that use the taweez have the belief that the ayat alone does not cause something to happen, rather it is trust in Allah

if they believed they could create human life or cause hatred between people themselves why would they need to use the Quranic ayat at all? :confused: they obviously have trust in Allah and that is why they use the ayats because they believe Allah will make something happen, not the ayat itself

The point is human being does not have the authority to create hatred between people. It is a big sin to do so. And using magic to do it is even worse!

Allaah says in Quraan that we cannot even create a simply fly, even if all our great minds were gathered together for that purpose. So let alone creating human life, we do not even have the ability to create a fly.

[Aram]

The point is human being does not have the authority to create hatred between people. It is a big sin to do so. And using magic to do it is even worse!

Allaah says in Quraan that we cannot even create a simply fly, even if all our great minds were gathered together for that purpose. So let alone creating human life, we do not even have the ability to create a fly.

human beings do not have the authority to do anything, everything we do is by the permission of Allah, even those people who use taweez and believe they are permissible in Islam do not believe they have the power to do anything except with the permission of Allah

we don't have the ability to grant people shifa, but we can read and blow ayats and duas over people to give them shifa through the permission of Allah, we don't believe the shifa is from us because we are reading the ayats/duas and we are blowing

[Abdul Qaadir]

human beings do not have the authority to do anything, everything we do is by the permission of Allah, even those people who use taweez and believe they are permissible in Islam do not believe they have the power to do anything except with the permission of Allah

we don't have the ability to grant people shifa, but we can read and blow ayats and duas over people to give them shifa through the permission of Allah, we don't believe the shifa is from us because we are reading the ayats/duas and we are blowing

You miss the point again. I am saying that only Allaah has the Right to create hatred between people. Islaam commands us to make peace and love between people who have a disagreement. Where does Islaam say that we should create enmity between human beings? To spread hatred and enmity, this is only the Right of Allaah. The one who is trying to steal this right of Allaah is Shaytaan.

[Aram]

You miss the point again. I am saying that only Allaah has the Right to create hatred between people. Islaam commands us to make peace and love between people who have a disagreement. Where does Islaam say that we should create enmity between human beings? To spread hatred and enmity, this is only the Right of Allaah. The one who is trying to steal this right of Allaah is Shaytaan.

does it not depend on the people and the situation
we often make duas to cause hatred between our enemy's so that they are busy fighting one another rather than the Muslims

you keep assuming the taweez was made to create separation between righteous people for ones own gain or desire

a severe warning is given after the taweez

would it be wrong for example if your son has friends who are druggies and you ask Allah to cause separation between him and his friends because they are taking him towards a bad path?

you don't steal the right of Allah because you are asking for Allah's help and permission to do something, it is not from yourself!

[Taliban1]

You have a serious doubt that Beheshti Zewar and Amal e Quraani are written by Ashraf Ali Thanwi?

On what basis do you say this is doubtful? Secondly you say that ta'weezaat ruins a person's aqeedah, yet you refuse to declare them as haraam?! Does it make sense? What kind of logic is this? If something ruins your aqeedah it can still be halaal?

Did I mention Beheshti Zewar? Are you okay? Do you need glasses? I can send for you from here.

No you can't say it's haram. Halal things can also lead you to a Gunah but that doesn't make the halal thing a Haram.

What do you say about TV? is it halal? How about internet? What do you say about digital pictures?

[Abdul Qaadir]

Did I mention Beheshti Zewar? Are you okay? Do you need glasses? I can send for you from here.

No you can't say it's haram. Halal things can also lead you to a Gunah but that doesn't make the halal thing a Haram.

What do you say about TV? is it halal? How about internet? What do you say about digital pictures?

Certain TV programs are haraam, and certain internet material is also haraam.

Now you tell me if you admit this fact, that the ta'weezaat which are common nowadays, that contain strange numbers, patterns, and are not in the Arabic language are also haraam. As you yourself have admitted that these certain ta'weezaat are cause for ruining of one's aqeedah.

[Aram]

Certain TV programs are haraam, and certain internet material is also haraam.

Now you tell me if you admit this fact, that the ta'weezaat which are common nowadays, that contain strange numbers, patterns, and are not in the Arabic language are also haraam. As you yourself have admitted that these certain ta'weezaat are cause for ruining of one's aqeedah.

hmmm well the numbers and "magic squares" are actually a mathematical representation of ayats, this may be used because people do not want to put the actual ayats down on paper maybe, i wouldn't personally use them as i have no knowledge of them but i wouldn't outright say this taweez is calling upon shayateen because it has numbers on it and boxes and this is the language used to call upon shaytaans so therefore the person who wrote them is a mushrik

these are not light statements to through around so before you do that you might want to actually find out what these things are and what they mean

wallahu alam

[Taliban1]

Certain TV programs are haraam, and certain internet material is also haraam.

Now you tell me if you admit this fact, that the ta'weezaat which are common nowadays, that contain strange numbers, patterns, and are not in the Arabic language are also haraam. As you yourself have admitted that these certain ta'weezaat are cause for ruining of one's aqeedah.

Yes i've admitted now please be a proper cultured human being and stop fighting.

Those are not strange patterns to the ones who understand them. It's just like chinese for you. If you see a taweez in Chinese you will start shouting SHIRK SHIRK. Infact it's not even shirk. It's chinese and the guy has written Ya Allah help us in chinese.

The numbers are called huroof e Abjad. Every letter in the arabic language is appointed one number. To save from BeAdbi to Allah's names and ayats, the numbers of the ayat of Allah's name is written in the taweez.

The Abjad numbers of Allah are equal to 66.

Now How wil it be shrik if number 66 is written in boxes that add up to 66?

You don't understand it, but it's not shirk. Someone who understands can tell you exactly what it means.

Example, pick a taweez and change some numbers from it. Take this taweez to an expert amil who knows this stuff. He'll immediately tell you that the taweez is not correct. It has some problems in it.

:jazak:

[abuhajira]

Those are not strange patterns to the ones who understand them. It's just like chinese for you. If you see a taweez in Chinese you will start shouting SHIRK SHIRK. Infact it's not even shirk. It's chinese and the guy has written Ya Allah help us in chinese.

:jazak:

哦，上帝幫助我們

[Abdul Qaadir]

Yes i've admitted now please be a proper cultured human being and stop fighting.

Those are not strange patterns to the ones who understand them. It's just like chinese for you. If you see a taweez in Chinese you will start shouting SHIRK SHIRK. Infact it's not even shirk. It's chinese and the guy has written Ya Allah help us in chinese.

The numbers are called huroof e Abjad. Every letter in the arabic language is appointed one number. To save from BeAdbi to Allah's names and ayats, the numbers of the ayat of Allah's name is written in the taweez.

The Abjad numbers of Allah are equal to 66.

Now How wil it be shrik if number 66 is written in boxes that add up to 66?

You don't understand it, but it's not shirk. Someone who understands can tell you exactly what it means.

Example, pick a taweez and change some numbers from it. Take this taweez to an expert amil who knows this stuff. He'll immediately tell you that the taweez is not correct. It has some problems in it.

:jazak:

And who invented this abjad system? What does it have to do with Islam? Did Nabi :saw: or his Sahabah ever use this system of numerology?

[Taliban1]

And who invented this abjad system? What does it have to do with Islam? Did Nabi :saw: or his Sahabah ever use this system of numerology?

Who invented Amoxil? Did Nabi :saw: or his Sahabah ever used Amoxil or Panadol?

[Abdul Qaadir]

Who invented Amoxil? Did Nabi :saw: or his Sahabah ever used Amoxil or Panadol?

Amoxil and Panadol have nothing to do with Deen. Stop trying to confuse the issue, as is your people's usual habit.

[Taliban1]

Amoxil and Panadol have nothing to do with Deen. Stop trying to confuse the issue, as is your people's usual habit.

Answer clearly don't use personal insults because I can't have the capability of insulting you personally otherwise i would have.

So how do taweez have anything to do with Deen?

[Abdul Qaadir]

So how do taweez have anything to do with Deen?

Because it is done in the name of Deen. It is done as an act of worship to come closer to Allaah. People who wear taweez do so with the intention that they are getting Allah's protection. Therefore it falls into the category of Deen.

[Taliban1]

Because it is done in the name of Deen.

Please show an example where it is done in the name of Deen. People take Amoxil in the name of deen, it makes it shirk right?


It is done as an act of worship to come closer to Allaah.

Well people use it to protect themselves from Jinns and Sehr, who does it as an act of worship to come closer to Allah?

Give one specific Example where you have asked a person yourself about his intention of using the Taweez.


People who wear taweez do so with the intention that they are getting Allah's protection. Therefore it falls into the category of Deen.

So what is wrong in getting Allah's protection?

It seems that you are trying to make it fall into the category of Deen while it itself is trying not to fall into the category of Deen.

[Abdul Qaadir]

Please show an example where it is done in the name of Deen. People take Amoxil in the name of deen, it makes it shirk right?



Well people use it to protect themselves from Jinns and Sehr, who does it as an act of worship to come closer to Allah?

Give one specific Example where you have asked a person yourself about his intention of using the Taweez.



So what is wrong in getting Allah's protection?

It seems that you are trying to make it fall into the category of Deen while it itself is trying not to fall into the category of Deen.

Seeking Allaah's protection is Ibaadah. Everytime you recite Ta'awwudh is it not ibaadah? Allaah commands to recite Ta'awwudh before reading Quraan. So that Ta'awwudh is part of reading Quraan, and clearly it is an action of Ibaadah.

therefore, when people put a ta'weedh on their neck, they are seeking Allaah protection. It is an act of worship...but the problem is that such an act is not legislated in either Quraan or Sunnah, therefore it is a represensible innovation in the very least - and depending on the type and contents of ta'weedh it could be shirk.

[Abdul Qaadir]

Verdicts of the Scholars of Saudi Arabia on Amulets (Tamaa'im)

Question:

What is the ruling on wearing amulets and placing them on the chest, or under the pillow, bearing in mind that these amulets contain Qur’anic Verses only?
Answer:

The correct position is that wearing amulets, even if they are from the Qur’aan or from Hadiths is forbidden. This is because it was not reported from the Prophet sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam, for any means to attaining an end which is not reported from the Messenger sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam is invalid and is not to be taken into account, because it is Allaah, the Almighty, the Majestic Who causes all effects, and if this means is unknown to us either from the Islamic law or from practical experience, then it is not permissible and is not to be considered as a means of attaining an end. Amulets, according to the most reliable view, are forbidden, whether they are from the Qur’aan or from other than the Qur’aan. When a person is afflicted by anything, he should find someone to recite over him, as Jibril recited incantations over the Prophet sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam and he used to recite incantations over his Companions, may Allaah be pleased with them, and this is lawful.

Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Fatawa Islamiyah, vol.1, p.202, DARUSSALAM


Question:

What is the ruling of suspending an amulet containig the Qur'an upon the wall or in the car?
Answer:

[This is] not allowed; since suspending the Aayatul-Kursee or other than it from the Qur'an upon the wall or in the car is Imtihaan (belittlement and misuse) of it.

Shaykh `Abdur-Razzaaq al-`Afeefee
Fataawa wa rasaail samaahati ash-Shaykh 'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee, p365, Daar Ibn Hazm & Daar al-Fadeelah.
Translated by Abu 'Abdillaah al-Kashmiri


As for wearing amulets by children and patients, it is not permissible. Such are called trinkets. But the most valid opinion is that they are a form of Shirk, and unlawful, because the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) said: He who wears an amulet; may Allaah not help him, and he who wears a shell; may Allaah not protect him. [6] He who wears an amulet commits Shirk.[7] And he (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) said: Verily, incantations, amulets and Tiwalah are Shirk. [8] The scholars are at variance regarding the legality of wearing amulets containing Qur'anic Verses. The correct verdict is that they are unlawful, for two reasons: 1. The general prohibition of wearing any kind of amulets according to the Prophetic traditions whether they contain Qur'anic Verses or not. 2. Leaving no room for formulas of Shirk, for if the amulets containing Qur'anic verses were allowed then they may be confused with the other amulets, and that will keep the door open to Shirk, and all kinds of amulets would be worn on that ground. It is known that closing the door to things that lead to Shirk and evil deeds is one of the greatest judicial objectives. It is Allaah who grants success.

[1] Abu Dawud no. 3883, Ahmad 1:381 and Al-Hakim 4:418 [2] Muslim no. 2199 [3]Muslim no. 2200 [4] Muslim no. 2199 [5] Al-Bukhari no. 5705 and Muslim no. 220 [6] Ahmad 4:154 and Abu Yaýla no. 1759. See Majmaýuz-Zawaýid 5:103 [7] Ahmad 4:156 and Al-Hakim 4:417. See Majmaýuz-Zawaýid 5:103 [8] Abu Dawud no. 3883, Ahmad 1:381 and Al-Hakim 4:418

Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz
Fatawa Islamiyah Vol. 1 Page 40

[Taliban1]

:salam:

AQ bhai, please don't play Sheikh Sheikh and Mufti Mufti with me.

Answer my questions point by point, clearly.

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

AQ bhai, please don't play Sheikh Sheikh and Mufti Mufti with me.

Answer my questions point by point, clearly.

Alhamdulillaah i answered all of your very weak objections. You exposed what little knowledge you have about basics of Islaam when you claimed that ta'weez has nothing to do with Deen. As if it is a secular type of medicine like penicilin. So when you go to the doctor and you have some illness, tell him to write you a prescription for a ta'weez. This way you can save money and not go to the local pharmacy, as these days medicine is very costly.

[Taliban1]

Alhamdulillaah i answered all of your very weak objections. You exposed what little knowledge you have about basics of Islaam when you claimed that ta'weez has nothing to do with Deen. As if it is a secular type of medicine like penicilin. So when you go to the doctor and you have some illness, tell him to write you a prescription for a ta'weez. This way you can save money and not go to the local pharmacy, as these days medicine is very costly.

If a doctor writes a taweez then it will be okay because it is not considered deen then?

[Abdul Qaadir]

If a doctor writes a taweez then it will be okay because it is not considered deen then?

No doctor in his right mind would write a prescription for ta'weez. That is my whole point. Because you claim taweez has nothing to do with deen, it is a purely secular method to be cured of illness and remain safe from harm. If that is the case, why no doctor in the world prescribes ta'weez? Why no scientist in the world has written about the medical benefits of ta'weez?

Why the only people who propogate ta'weez are Sufis, Peers, and Maulwis?

[Taliban1]

Fatwa of Mufti Ebrahim Desai about taweezat.


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh

To make Taweez is not Shirk. The following makes this clear.

Allah Taãla says in the Noble Qurãn, 'In the Qurãn is (spiritual, physical) cure for people.'

The opening chapter of the Noble Qurãn, Surah Faatiha is also called the chapter of Shifaa. It is recorded in the Bukhari Shareef vol. 1 p. , 'A ruler of a certain clan was stung by a creature, the people of the area requested the Sahaaba to cure him, one Sahaabi read Surah Faatiha and blew on the affected area and cured the ruler. The Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) even praised the Sahaabi for doing so.

From the above quotations, it is clear that the verses of the Noble Qurãn is a means of cure. Treating oneself with Taweez containing verses of the Qurãn is similar to treating oneself with medication. By using medication, one merely places his trust in Allah Taãla and use the medication as a means of cure. The effect in the means is with the Will of Allah Taãla so, too is the usage of the Taweez.

The art of making Taweez is a science independent to other known sciences. People who have studied this science are most knowledgeable to explain its vast understanding. One thing must be outlined at the outset is that anyone practising the making of Taweez cannot ascribe (in his method and application) partners with Allah Taãla. Any act of Kufr is unacceptable in Islam.

The people during the time of Jaahiliyya had an incorrect belief that the stars and planets cause rainfall, but the Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) dismissed that. The drawings and illustrations used in Taweez are like the concepts used in geometry, etc. to arrive at a solution.

In conclusion, consider the following Hadith: Abu Khuzaymah (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) narrates from his father that he asked Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam), 'Inform me about Rukan (blowing in water and Taweez), medication, and means of security, does it change Taqdeer (predestination)? He replied, 'They (all the above) are within Taqdeer. (Mishkãt pg. 22)

And Allah knows best

Wassalam

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah

[Abdul Qaadir]

Allah Taãla says in the Noble Qurãn, 'In the Qurãn is (spiritual, physical) cure for people.'

Rasoolullaah :saw: mentioned that honey also contains cure.

Does it mean you should hang a jar of honey on your neck if you are sick?
Or even if you have some pain in your chest or leg, take some honey and smear it over those areas?

No, the Sunnah way of using honey as a cure is to drink it. Not to hang a jar of it on your neck, or smear it over your body.

Likewise, the Quraan is also a cure. You take advantage of this cure by reading Quraan and adhering to its teachings. Not by writing it on a piece of paper and hanging it on your neck.

The Quraan is the Word of Allaah. He didn't reveal it so you can hang it on walls as decoration or some kind of amulet. That is actually disrespecting and playing with the Words of Allaah. The purpose of Quraan is to read it and understand its message, and to benefit from its guidance in this way.

[Taliban1]

Everything will be used as it is used.

Quran will be used as taweez and reading. Sahaba used to write taweez and hang it in children's necks.

So writing it on walls is haram?

[Abdul Qaadir]

Everything will be used as it is used.

Quran will be used as taweez and reading. Sahaba used to write taweez and hang it in children's necks.

So writing it on walls is haram?

Writing Quraanic Ayaat on walls is haraam, because Quraan is not a decoration.

Sahaabah :anhum: differed about using tamaa'im which contain only Quraanic ayaat. Some said it is allowed, others said it is forbidden, because the generality of the Ahadeeth forbidding the use of any tameemah.

Abu Dawood narrated that ‘Eesa ibn Hamzah said: “I entered upon ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Akeem and his face was red due to high fever. I said, ‘Why don’t you hang up an amulet?’ He said, ‘We seek refuge with Allaah from that. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever hangs up anything will be entrusted to its care…”’”

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

1.36 Putting Written Qur’anic Verses into Water to Be Drunk

Question: A sick man asks for a Ruqya treatment. The Raqi writes some Qur‘anic verses. He gives the writing to the patient and tells him to soak it in water, and then drink the water. is this valid?

Answer: The Permanent Committee for Scientific Research and Ifta has already answered a similar question. This is the answer: The treatment by writing Qur‘anic verses on a piece of paper or a container, washing it with water, then drinking the water is valid. This is based on the general Qur‘anic statement, ―(82) And We reveal of the Qur‘an that which is a healing and a mercy for believers.‖ 1
The Qur‘an is a healing for psychological and physical diseases. In Ibn-Majah‘s Sunan and Al-Hakim‘s Al-Mustadrak, Ibn-Mas‘ud narrated that the Prophet ﷺ said, ―Use the two cures: honey and the Qur‘an.‖ 2 Sunan Ibn-Majah, Kitab Attib (Book of Medicine), Hadith No. 3452.

According to Ibn-Majah, Au narrated that the Prophet ﷺ said, ―The best cure is the Qur‘an. Sunaj Ibn-Majah, Kitab Attib (Book of Medicine), Hadith No. 3501
‖3
According to Ibn-Assinni4 Ibn-Assiny’s Al-Yawm Wal-Laylah, Hadith No. 619.
, Ibn-Abbas said, If delivery is too difficult, take a clean pan and write on it (from within) these verses: ―(35) On the day when they see that which they are promised (it will seem to them) as though they had tarried but an hour of daylight‖ 5; ―(46) On the day when they behold it, it will be as if they had but tarried for an evening or the morn thereof‘6; ―(111) In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding.‖ 7 Then, wash the pan with water. Some of the wash wash water is to be given to the woman in labour to drink, and some to be sprinkled on her abdomen and face. As mentioned in Ibn-Al-Qayyim‘s Zad-Al-Ma’ad, Vol.3, p.381, Al-Khallal reported that Abdullah Ibn-Ahmad said, ―I saw my father - if he got a case of difficult delivery - write on a white bowl or something clean these prayers and Qur‘anic verses as related by Ibn-Abbas, ‗There is no God but Allah, the Gracious, the Generous; may Allah, Lord of the Glorious Throne, be

exalted!‘ ‗(35) On the day when they see that which they are promised (it will seem to them) as though they had tarried but an hour of daylight‘1; ‗(46) On the day when they behold it, it will be as if they had but tarried for an evening or the morn thereof.‘2(An-Nazi’at Sura, Ayah 46.)

‖ Al-Khallal also reported that Abu-Bakr Al-Marwathi said, ―Abu-Abdillah was approached by some man who said: O Abu-Abdillah, will you write (a Ruqya) for a woman who has been in difficult labour for the last two days? Abu-Abdillah replied: Let him bring a big bowl and some saffron. I have seen him write for more than one person.‖ According to Ibn-Al-Qayyim, a group of Salaf recommend the drinking of the wash water of soaked written Qur‘anic verses; similarly, Mujahid saw it valid to write Qur‘anic verses, wash the writing with water, and have patients drink it; and Abu-Qulabah made a similar recommendation. 3(Ifta’ Permanent Committee, Islamic Research Journal, Vol. 27, pp. 51-52. )

[nameuser]

salaam: @abdul qadir i thought u are just in arguing but why did u skip to reply the post #146!

please reply it promptly...:insh:

[umar_italy]

as for those who perform black magic who do they call upon? i was under the impression they called upon the shayateen amongst the jinn and that is why it is shirk??

That's what I'm trying to understand too..


I am pretty sure those people that use the taweez have the belief that the ayat alone does not cause something to happen, rather it is trust in Allah

if they believed they could create human life or cause hatred between people themselves why would they need to use the Quranic ayat at all? :confused: they obviously have trust in Allah and that is why they use the ayats because they believe Allah will make something happen, not the ayat itself

Yeah, that's called asbab, but Salafis have problems with these sometimes, althought they don't have problems with other asbab as when eating and drinking to placate hunger and thirst or when taking a pill when feeling some pain...


these are not light statements to through around so before you do that you might want to actually find out what these things are and what they mean

Golden principle, but "people are enemies of what they don't know".

Especially Salafis are expert in throwing accusations of bid'ah and shirk towards everything they don't know/understand.

[abuhajira]

عن عوف بن مالك الأشجعى قال كنا نرقى فى الجاهلية فقلنا يا رسول الله كيف ترى فى ذلك فقال اعرضوا على رقاكم لا بأس بالرقى ما لم يكن فيه شرك. ( الجامع الصحيح مسلم , دار المعرفة , باب لا بأس بالرقى , ج 14, ص 408)



In case you overlooked, I in fact posted this hadeeth with regards to ruqyah. acouple of points from this hadeeth are

a) Nabi :saw: permitted all ruqyah as long as it does not have shirk in it.
b) The ruqyah for which the question was asked to Nabi :saw: was from jahiliyyah so it cannot have Quranic aayaat or names of Allah in it. So it has to be something that the Raqi himself knew.

With this reasoning there is no need to put restrictions unless mentioned by other ahadeeth, tabi'een.

:ws:

:salam:

I am posting this for the 3rd time.

If Nabi :saw: permitted the ruqya of jahiliya as long as it does not have shirk in it, then whats the problem here?

No ruqiya of jahiliya had quran in it. Ruqya aprenticeship and teaching was well in practice within Ahl Bayt.

Fatwa on Tameema cannot be made on Ruqiya.

:ws:

[Abbe]

Somewhere in the beginning of this question Taliban asked about a definition of sihr. As far as I know, no one came up with a definition. I'm still struggling to understand how anyone can call anything sihr/shirk if they can't even give a definition first. Is it sihr/shirk just because we don't understand it? What happened to the following principle: الحكم على الشيء فرع عن تصوره

[Taliban1]

Somewhere in the beginning of this question Taliban asked about a definition of sihr. As far as I know, no one came up with a definition. I'm still struggling to understand how anyone can call anything sihr/shirk if they can't even give a definition first. Is it sihr/shirk just because we don't understand it? What happened to the following principle: الحكم على الشيء فرع عن تصوره

There are no principles to follow, it's all about "I like to call him a MUSHRIK", and "My Sheikh said this"

I ask them, their Sheikhs (the same ones they put fatwas of), they written books against Sehr mentioning strange things. They have also prescribed things as record Ayat al Kursi on a cassette and listen to it daily 1 hour.

HAVE THEY EVER ASKED THESE SHUYOOKHS TO PROVE THIS FROM QURAN AND HADITH?

I'm more than 200% sure, if the same Sheikh's change their stance against Taweez today, they'll be shouting in favor of taweezaat and those who don't accept taweezaat will become Mushriks.

The war today is "SHEIKH vs QURAN/HADITH"...

[Abbe]

:salam:

I am posting this for the 3rd time.

If Nabi :saw: permitted the ruqya of jahiliya as long as it does not have shirk in it, then whats the problem here?

No ruqiya of jahiliya had quran in it.

Excellent point.

[Aram]

Verdicts of the Scholars of Saudi Arabia on Amulets (Tamaa'im)

Imam Ibn Taymiyya (Allah have mercy on him) writes in his Fatawa:

“It is permissible for an ill or troubled person, that certain verses from the Qur’an are written with pure ink, then it is washed and given to the ill to drink. Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have mentioned a certain Dua that should be written and placed close to the woman who is experiencing hard labour at the time of giving birth.

Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says: This Dua should be written and tied to the arm of the woman. We have experienced that there is nothing more amazing than this” (Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya, 19/65).

Imam Ibn Taymiyya’s student Imam Ibn al-Qayyim also narrates the permissibility of using Ta’wizes from a number of salafs including the great Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Allah have mercy on him). Thereafter Ibn al-Qayyim himself quotes various Ta’wizes (Zad al-Ma’ad, 3/180).

[al_Zayn]

Imam Ibn Taymiyya (Allah have mercy on him) writes in his Fatawa:

“It is permissible for an ill or troubled person, that certain verses from the Qur’an are written with pure ink, then it is washed and given to the ill to drink. Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have mentioned a certain Dua that should be written and placed close to the woman who is experiencing hard labour at the time of giving birth.

Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says: This Dua should be written and tied to the arm of the woman. We have experienced that there is nothing more amazing than this” (Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya, 19/65).

Imam Ibn Taymiyya’s student Imam Ibn al-Qayyim also narrates the permissibility of using Ta’wizes from a number of salafs including the great Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Allah have mercy on him). Thereafter Ibn al-Qayyim himself quotes various Ta’wizes (Zad al-Ma’ad, 3/180).

:salam:



مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية
تقي الدين ابن تيمية

http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?flag=1&bk_no=22&ID=1943


ويجوز أن يكتب للمصاب وغيره من المرضى شيئا من كتاب الله وذكره بالمداد المباح ويغسل ويسقى كما نص على ذلك أحمد وغيره قال عبد الله بن أحمد : قرأت على أبي ثنا يعلى بن عبيد ; ثنا سفيان ; عن محمد بن أبي ليلى عن الحكم ; عن سعيد بن جبير ; عن ابن عباس قال : إذا عسر على المرأة ولادتها فليكتب : بسم الله لا إله إلا الله الحليم الكريم سبحان الله رب العرش العظيم الحمد لله رب العالمين { كأنهم يوم يرونها لم يلبثوا إلا عشية أو ضحاها } { كأنهم يوم يرون ما يوعدون لم يلبثوا إلا ساعة من نهار بلاغ فهل يهلك إلا القوم الفاسقون } . قال أبي : ثنا أسود بن عامر بإسناده بمعناه وقال : يكتب في إناء نظيف فيسقى قال أبي : وزاد فيه وكيع فتسقى وينضح ما دون سرتها قال عبد الله : رأيت أبي يكتب للمرأة في جام أو شيء نظيف .

وقال أبو عمرو محمد بن أحمد بن حمدان الحيري : أنا الحسن بن سفيان النسوي ; حدثني عبد الله بن أحمد بن شبوية ; ثنا علي بن [ ص: 65 ] الحسن بن شقيق ; ثنا عبد الله بن المبارك ; عن سفيان ; عن ابن أبي ليلى ; عن الحكم ; عن سعيد بن جبير ; عن ابن عباس قال : إذا عسر على المرأة ولادها فليكتب : بسم الله لا إله إلا الله العلي العظيم لا إله إلا الله الحليم الكريم ; سبحان الله وتعالى رب العرش العظيم ; والحمد لله رب العالمين { كأنهم يوم يرونها لم يلبثوا إلا عشية أو ضحاها } { كأنهم يوم يرون ما يوعدون لم يلبثوا إلا ساعة من نهار بلاغ فهل يهلك إلا القوم الفاسقون } . قال علي : يكتب في كاغدة فيعلق على عضد المرأة قال علي : وقد جربناه فلم نر شيئا أعجب منه فإذا وضعت تحله سريعا ثم تجعله في خرقة أو تحرقه . آخر كلام شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية - قدس الله روحه ونور ضريحه

[meelash]

Fatwa of Mufti Ebrahim Desai about taweezat.

الحمد لله،
This fatwa cleared up many doubts about ta'weez in my mind. The explanation of the shapes and illustrations is interesting. Does anyone know what kind of problems are being solved? What is the mechanism involved.

For example, in the case of medicine, the medicine is not exactly just random chemicals mixed together by chance that are found to have a certain effect. There is also some theory about germs or viruses or mutation that is used to help predict what effect certain chemicals will have.

So, in the case of ta'weez what is it that they are supposed to be a means toward? Do those symbols and things have an effect on spiritual state or are they supposed to prevent outside influence by jinnaat etc?

[Maripat]

الحمد لله،
This fatwa cleared up many doubts about ta'weez in my mind. The explanation of the shapes and illustrations is interesting. Does anyone know what kind of problems are being solved? What is the mechanism involved.

For example, in the case of medicine, the medicine is not exactly just random chemicals mixed together by chance that are found to have a certain effect. There is also some theory about germs or viruses or mutation that is used to help predict what effect certain chemicals will have.

So, in the case of ta'weez what is it that they are supposed to be a means toward? Do those symbols and things have an effect on spiritual state or are they supposed to prevent outside influence by jinnaat etc?

:salam:
I'll add my two cents before knowledgeable people chip in.
I heard a pretty senior Maulana say that People of Allah have the following attitude. The first thing they recommend, do and prefer is dua, supplications. The second thing is to suggest some Remembrance (zikr). Finally when they know or realize that they person might end up with mushrik magicians and the like (and is not amenable to the first two ways) then they say that alright write some verses from the Holy Qur'an.

Based on this one would conclude that the working mechanism is the same as supplication-dua is verbal and amulet is written. Wallualam.

Finally regarding the working of modern medicine and viral and germ theories. Allopathic medicine should be taken as part of Sunnah (unless explicitly against shariah). Now I am saying this only to add the next thing. Allopathy too has its limitations. Though the physicians on SF are not agreeing with it but there are limitations and the reason is that so many times the patients end up with Hakims and Ayurvedic doctors. My colleagues daughter was given medicines after analyzing her DNA and the doctors said that I am not sure whether the medicine will work or not. The girl died later on.

In summary because of our modern training we take both jinn and taweez as mumbo jumbo-the fault is in our training because the effect of name of Allah is truth and existence of jinn is truth. The situation of course is complicated by the fact that it is much more fertile ground for the quacks. (There are quacks in modern medicine too-there is a name in Urdu/Hindi for them.)
Wassalam

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


[This is] not allowed; since suspending the Aayatul-Kursee or other than it from the Qur'an upon the wall or in the car is Imtihaan (belittlement and misuse) of it.

Six to eight feet portraits of present to grand grand father's are hung in all offices of ministries in KSA. No part on wall is left without a portrait.

1. Did someone ever ever ask for a fatwa on this.
2. Did any mufti objected or gave virtues of hanging those portraits.
3. Why fatawah only on muslims of other parts of the world.

The only virtues I think of those portraits is similar to that of chart posted in OP. Driving away the evil forces.

[Taliban1]

Assalamu alaykum



Six to eight feet portraits of present to grand grand father's are hung in all offices of ministries in KSA. No part on wall is left without a portrait.

1. Did someone ever ever ask for a fatwa on this.
2. Did any mufti objected or gave virtues of hanging those portraits.
3. Why fatawah only on muslims of other parts of the world.

The only virtues I think of those portraits is similar to that of chart posted in OP. Driving away the evil forces.

:ws:

This thread is not about portraits hung in ministries of KSA.

Please stay on Topic.

:jazak:

[Taliban1]

الحمد لله،
This fatwa cleared up many doubts about ta'weez in my mind. The explanation of the shapes and illustrations is interesting. Does anyone know what kind of problems are being solved? What is the mechanism involved.

For example, in the case of medicine, the medicine is not exactly just random chemicals mixed together by chance that are found to have a certain effect. There is also some theory about germs or viruses or mutation that is used to help predict what effect certain chemicals will have.

So, in the case of ta'weez what is it that they are supposed to be a means toward? Do those symbols and things have an effect on spiritual state or are they supposed to prevent outside influence by jinnaat etc?

:sala:

Please use admin@daruliftaa.net for further questions.

:jazak:

[Musleemah]

b) The ruqyah for which the question was asked to Nabi :saw: was from jahiliyyah so it cannot have Quranic aayaat or names of Allah in it. So it has to be something that the Raqi himself knew.
:ws:
:salam:
Brother,
Could you please post the hadeeth

[Musleemah]

Armchair analysts can't understand the ground reality. Whatever experiences we have shared are practical ones.

There is a saudi shaikh who is an expert in this field, I mean in the field of magic and magicians, his name is Adel al-Muqbil
الشيخ عادل المقبل
He gave a program on this topic a while back, I believe 2 or 3 years ago, I don't remember when exactly, but I watched part of it, and he shows clips of some of the sihr they discovered and how they destroyed it, and other things on the subject.

The whole program has been uploaded to youtube by someone, here is the first part :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNTcDeIulc

and this is the link for the playlist for this program (13 parts, about 8 to 9 minutes each) :
http://www.youtube.com/user/IslamHouseAr#g/c/B9D828FFBECBCB33

Note: it is in Arabic, I haven't searched yet to see if there is an English translation of it or not.

[sudoku]

:salam:
Brother,
Could you please post the hadeeth

:salam:

it was in the same post you quoted sister . on authority of Auf bin Malik AlAshja'i as resported in Jami'us Saheeh.

[Abdul Qaadir]

According to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, it is allowed to bring certain ta'weez, containing Quraanic ayaat into the washroom [Na;audhubillaah!!]

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6596&act=view


1. A Taweez contains Aayaats of the noble Qur'aan. It deserves a great
amount of respect. You should refrain as far as possible from wearing such
in the toilet and times of impurity. However, if the Taweez is of such a
nature that it has to remain on you all the time and you have been advised
to do so, then you may keep it on you properly wrapped up and covered.


This is why ta'weez is such an evil thing and people need to be properly educated about its reality. This is undoubtedly disrespect for the Words of Allaah, which none but the al-Mutahharoon are allowed to touch. Yet the nature of some ta'weez is that they have to be worn in every state, even if a person it not in wudhu, if he is junub, and even when he goes to answer the call of nature!!

[Taliban1]

According to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, it is allowed to bring certain ta'weez, containing Quraanic ayaat into the washroom [Na;audhubillaah!!]

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6596&act=view



This is why ta'weez is such an evil thing and people need to be properly educated about its reality. This is undoubtedly disrespect for the Words of Allaah, which none but the al-Mutahharoon are allowed to touch. Yet the nature of some ta'weez is that they have to be worn in every state, even if a person it not in wudhu, if he is junub, and even when he goes to answer the call of nature!!

So you accept his Fatwa?

[Abdul Qaadir]

So you accept his Fatwa?

I wouldn't accept it even if someone put a loaded gun to my head

[Taliban1]

Allah Allah.

Ok good. So you've proved your point, now please remove the loaded gun from our heads :D

Now come and help me in the ta'addud campaign :)

:jazak:

[nameuser]

According to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, it is allowed to bring certain ta'weez, containing Quraanic ayaat into......



Are u mufti?

do u know mufti's job is very responsible...and mufti's words are taken as granted!

how can anyone trust ur words or taken ur words as granted when u are not mufti.

[Abbe]

According to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, it is allowed to bring certain ta'weez, containing Quraanic ayaat into the washroom [Na;audhubillaah!!]

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6596&act=view



This is why ta'weez is such an evil thing and people need to be properly educated about its reality. This is undoubtedly disrespect for the Words of Allaah, which none but the al-Mutahharoon are allowed to touch. Yet the nature of some ta'weez is that they have to be worn in every state, even if a person it not in wudhu, if he is junub, and even when he goes to answer the call of nature!!

Are you moving away from the shirk issue?

By the way, the fatwa you mentioned is in accordance with the shafi'i stance.

[Aram]

According to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, it is allowed to bring certain ta'weez, containing Quraanic ayaat into the washroom [Na;audhubillaah!!]

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6596&act=view



This is why ta'weez is such an evil thing and people need to be properly educated about its reality. This is undoubtedly disrespect for the Words of Allaah, which none but the al-Mutahharoon are allowed to touch. Yet the nature of some ta'weez is that they have to be worn in every state, even if a person it not in wudhu, if he is junub, and even when he goes to answer the call of nature!!

the shirk one failed now there is a new objection
this is coming from the same people who say we don't need wudu to touch the quran and we can put it on the floor!!

Here is what IslamQA says about it

Carrying the Qur’aan to the bathroom so that it will not be stolen
ar - en - es - fr - ur
I always carry a Quran with me, no matter where I go, because I like to read it often. I keep it in my bookbag. What do I do if I am out somewhere and I have to go to the bathroom. I cant leave the Quran outside because someone might take it and so I just keep it in my bookbag and take both into the bathroom. Is this acceptable? Remember, in america public restrooms have a large open area, and a private toilet area. Where can I take my bag? Either place

Praise be to Allaah.

If you can keep it outside, this is good, but if you are afraid that it will be stolen or lost, then it is OK to take it into the bathroom with you if it is inside a case or bag. But keep the bag away from the toilets, because this is better. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.*************/en/ref/6223/quran%20bathroom

back to the drawing board

[abuhajira]

According to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, it is allowed to bring certain ta'weez, containing Quraanic ayaat into the washroom [Na;audhubillaah!!]

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6596&act=view



This is why ta'weez is such an evil thing and people need to be properly educated about its reality. This is undoubtedly disrespect for the Words of Allaah, which none but the al-Mutahharoon are allowed to touch. Yet the nature of some ta'weez is that they have to be worn in every state, even if a person it not in wudhu, if he is junub, and even when he goes to answer the call of nature!!

:salam:

Here is a hanbali text..


باب الاستطابة وآداب التخلى
يسن أن يقول عند دخوله الخلاء بسم الله أللهم إني أعوذ بك من الخبث والخبائث ويكره دخوله بما فيه ذكر الله بلا حاجة لا دراهم ونحوها فلا بأس به نصا ومثلها حرز لكن يجعل فص خاتم في باطن كفه اليمنى ويحرم بمصحف إلا لحاجة
[الإقناع في فقه الإمام أحمد بن حنبل 1/ 14]

Maulana Taliban since you arabic is better than mine could you translate this bit.

:ws:

[Abdul Qaadir]

What is the Position of Ta'weedh in Islaam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGKL4jorog&feature=related

[abuhajira]

What is the Position of Ta'weedh in Islaam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGKL4jorog&feature=related

:salam:

What kind of a salafi are you? :rolleyes: When all your arguments are broken you still follow blindly :-)

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

What kind of a salafi are you? :rolleyes: When all your arguments are broken you still follow blindly :-)

:ws:

It's not blind following. The evidences are in Quraan and Sunnah, following Quraan and Sunnah is not taqleed, it is ittiba and ita'at, which Allaah has commanded. But Allaah never commanded blind following.

[dr.ati]

The argumentation should have ceased after post # 109. The arguments given in the pages which follow that post only depict the amount of decay which has occurred in the Muslim thought during the last few centuries and it further depicts the extent to which one can go to justify what he got from his ancestors.
PS. It is needless to mention the Hanbali sources after the opinion of Shaykh Abdullah Bin Baaz rahimahullah has been given.

[abuhajira]

:ws:

It's not blind following. The evidences are in Quraan and Sunnah, following Quraan and Sunnah is not taqleed, it is ittiba and ita'at, which Allaah has commanded. But Allaah never commanded blind following.

:salam:

so you have been able to establish that:

a. ta'weez is shirk
b. Its not sanctioned by quran or sunnah

So whats the biggie.. The only biggie is you claimed and your claim was incorrect. When you didnt have anything, you posts a youtube video. Why dont you post the daleel which establishes your point.

And please dont start posting about tameema.

:ws:

:ws:

[abuhajira]

The argumentation should have ceased after post # 109. The arguments given in the pages which follow that post only depict the amount of decay which has occurred in the Muslim thought during the last few centuries and it further depicts the extent to which one can go to justify what he got from his ancestors.
PS. It is needless to mention the Hanbali sources after the opinion of Shaykh Abdullah Bin Baaz rahimahullah has been given.

:salam:

the argument finished on post 22.. when you left answering the hadeeth and rather started posting about numerology.

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

so you have been able to establish that:

a. ta'weez is shirk
b. Its not sanctioned by quran or sunnah

So whats the biggie.. The only biggie is you claimed and your claim was incorrect. When you didnt have anything, you posts a youtube video. Why dont you post the daleel which establishes your point.

And please dont start posting about tameema.

:ws:

:ws:

Why not? Tameemah and Ta'weedh Ghanday are the exact same thing. Rasoolullaah :saw: condemned tamaa'im in the strongest words, and mentioned that they are shirk. He said that one who take a tameemah will be entrusted to its care...meaning such a person has left tawakkal upon Allaah and put his tawakkal into an amulet which can neither benefit him nor harm him.

[dr.ati]

:salam:

the argument finished on post 22.. when you left answering the hadeeth and rather started posting about numerology.

:salam:

My issue was with the format of this specific amulet in which numerology is involved. I did not want to discuss the over all permissibility of amulets in this thread.

[abuhajira]

:salam:

My issue was with the format of this specific amulet in which numerology is involved. I did not want to discuss the over all permissibility of amulets in this thread.

:salam:

as long as overall pemissibility is accepted, then there remains no argument in the different ulama opting for different types of restriction. One may restrict it to a,b,c based on their ijtihad or whatever reasoning, and other may opt to restrict it for a and b only based on their ijtihad or reasoning.

You guys blindly wish to accept the opinion of the former. Jolly good! :thumbsup:

We opt for the later, jolly good! :thumbsup:

case closed.

:ws:

[abuhajira]

Why not? Tameemah and Ta'weedh Ghanday are the exact same thing. Rasoolullaah :saw: condemned tamaa'im in the strongest words, and mentioned that they are shirk. He said that one who take a tameemah will be entrusted to its care...meaning such a person has left tawakkal upon Allaah and put his tawakkal into an amulet which can neither benefit him nor harm him.

:salam:

define tameema..

define ruqiya

:ws:

[Taliban1]

:salam:

case closed.

:ws:

:ws:

Job done.

:ws:

[dr.ati]

:salam:

as long as overall pemissibility is accepted, then there remains no argument in the different ulama opting for different types of restriction. One may restrict it to a,b,c based on their ijtihad or whatever reasoning, and other may opt to restrict it for a and b only based on their ijtihad or reasoning.

You guys blindly wish to accept the opinion of the former. Jolly good! :thumbsup:

We opt for the later, jolly good! :thumbsup:

case closed.

:ws:

:salam:

So it was the Ijtihad of Ml Thanvi through which he came to know that hanging Suran Fatiha on hip after writting it in a missaranged form will yeild some specific results?
Till now it was Ilhaam and now it is Ijtihaad. :$

[dr.ati]

:salam:

Maulana Muhtaram let me the reason of my opposition to such acts in very simple words.

1. There is no proof for of writing such Taweeza't in Quran and Sunnah. If we don't keep these things limited to what is proven from Quran and Sunnah then how will you refute the extremist Barelvi Amils ( Who are mubtadis according to both of us) who know of no limits when practicing such sorcery? Whatever argument you have in their refutation can be applied by them on you on a bit lower level.

2.Accepted that Ml Ashraf Ali Thanvi got such a Kashaf/ilham through which he came to know that by saying such and such so so many times will produce such and such results then was it a part of the Kashaf that he was asked to generalize his kashaf for the benefit of general public? I think there would have been no trouble if he had kept his Kashaf to himself. Molvi A raza khan deemed his Kanzul A'maal as the "Ilhami translation of Quran" , on what basis do you refute his Kashaf? The thing is that if one indoctrinates such Majhoo'l things like Kashaf/Ilhaam and starts extracting religious stuff from it then even if they are true , due to their shapelessness , they can be easily misused.
I think we both shall agree that such claims of Kashaf/Ilham have mostly been false and the claimants had some personal interests behind such claims. Take the example of Yousaf Kadhab who claimed Prophet-hood on the basis of a certificate he got from Prophet PBUH through Kashaf. I have read the court proceedings of that case and the judge could not catch him on the basis of his false kashaf because first of all it is an unfalsifiable claim and secondly the history of Sufis is full of such claims. All what the judge was left with was that he questioned his religious education and when he even failed to name any three books of Hadiths , the judge rejected his "Kashaf" and sentenced him to death.

3. With all my honesty i think that most you people will never make such Taweeza't and it is being defended by you as it is coming from a scholar of your school of thought. Most of you will not give such a weird Taweez a second look if you did not know that it is from Behishti Zaiwar so that shows the amount of subjectivity and objectivity present in the arguments of defense of such Taweeza't.

4. I can not imagine for a second that Umar Ibn Al Khatab radiallahuanhu will ever prescribe such Taweeza't to a person full of numerology and Lanats on Hamaan , Qaroon , Firawn etc. Do you expect?

:jazak:


:ws:

1. Okay no proof. Accepted

2. I didn't say he got kashf/Ilham. So this point is rendered useless. And to be very honest with you, i don't trust kashfs too much neither do I believe in them. Kasfhs should be kept to one's self and not made public. This is experience that alot of kashfs are shaytaani.

3. I didn't defend it

4. No i don't expect.

Well, Dr.ati sahib, to be honest regarding these taweezaat stuff, i'm more inclined to the Salafi side. These should be ignored and not made public. This is the honest answer from me. But to claim that Hazrat was a jadoogar is absolute Ilzaam. That's why i asked you what is Jadoo, first define it then we will know if he was a jadoogar or not.

:jazak:

It should have ended here.

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

define tameema..

define ruqiya

:ws:

Tameemah is an amulet and ruqyah is an incantation.

[Taliban1]

:salam:

So it was the Ijtihad of Ml Thanvi through which he came to know that hanging Suran Fatiha on hip after writting it in a missaranged form will yeild some specific results?
Till now it was Ilhaam and now it is Ijtihaad. :$

:salam:

Dr sahib I requested you to show some respect please. This is not Fair :) I'm showing respect so you should too.

:jazak:

[dr.ati]

:salam:

Dr sahib I requested you to show some respect please. This is not Fair :) I'm showing respect so you should too.

:jazak:

:salam:

I apologize if i have been disrespectful or harsh.I was amazed to read that the issue of Taweezat is a matter of ijtihaad now.

:jazak:

[Musleemah]

:salam:

it was in the same post you quoted sister . on authority of Auf bin Malik AlAshja'i as resported in Jami'us Saheeh.

:ws:
:jazak:

[abuhajira]

:salam:

So it was the Ijtihad of Ml Thanvi through which he came to know that hanging Suran Fatiha on hip after writting it in a missaranged form will yeild some specific results?
Till now it was Ilhaam and now it is Ijtihaad. :$

:salam:

a. please link to my post where I said it is ilham? I maintain it is from a specific understanding of the science.
b. In our discussion we are not even talking about that! I said that stipulating the CONDITIONS/RESTRICTION you accept the ijtihaad of Sh. bin baz then go ahead. We go by the Jamhoor of the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'a on it. Your scholar may restrict it to a,b,c our scholars dont. So what does that prove? Just this much that you will follow your ulama no matter what they tell you, without looking for daleel.

:ws:

[abuhajira]

Tameemah is an amulet and ruqyah is an incantation.

Aynad daleel?

[Abdul Qaadir]

Aynad daleel?

Where's the Daleel that Daleel means Evidence?

It's the Arabic language....duh?! refer to Lisaan ul Arab if you don't believe me.

تَمِيمةٌ. قال أَبو منصور: أَراد الخَرز الذي يُتَّخَذ عُوَذاً.
والتَّمِيمةُ: خَرزة رَقْطاء تُنْظَم في السَّير ثم يُعقد في العُنق،
وهي التَّمائم والتَّمِيمُ؛ عن ابن جني، وقيل: هي قِلادة يجعل فيها سُيُورٌ
وعُوَذ؛ وحكي عن ثعلب: تَمَّمْت المَوْلود علَّقْت عليه التَّمائم.
والتَّمِيمةُ: عُوذةٌ تعلق على الإِنسان؛

والرُّقيْة: العُوذة، معروفة؛ قال رؤْبة:
فما تَرَكا مِن عُوذَةٍ يَعْرِفانها،
ولا رُقْيةٍ إلا بها رَقَياني
والجمع رُقىً. وتقول: اسْتَرْقَيْتُه فرَقاني رُقيْة، فهو راقٍ، وقد
رَقَاه رَقْياً ورُقِيّاً. ورجلٌ رَقَّاءٌ: صاحبُ رُقىً. يقال: رَقَى
الراقي رُقْيةً ورُقِيّاً إذا عَوَّذَ ونَفَثَ في عُوذَتِه، والمَرْقِيُّ
يَسْتَرْقي، وهم الراقُونَ؛ قال النابغة:
تَناذَرَها الرَّاقُونَ مِن سُوءِ سَمِّها

[Abbe]

PS. It is needless to mention the Hanbali sources after the opinion of Shaykh Abdullah Bin Baaz rahimahullah has been given.

Needless? I think most people on this forum are more intrested in hanbalis sources than Bin Baaz opinions. It helps everyone understand the position of the sunni madhabs.

[abuhajira]

Needless? I think most people on this forum are more intrested in hanbalis sources than Bin Baaz opinions. It helps everyone understand the position of the sunni madhabs.

:salam:

@Abdul Qaadir, I wanted to write a nice explanation but then I thought instead I stick to the normal routine :) But good to see that you can atleast post the references :) should be doing that more often.

@ Abbe : here is something I found from hanbali books.


الْمَسْأَلَةُ الثَّانِيَةُ - 6: الرُّقَى وَالتَّعَاوِيذُ وَالتَّمَائِمُ، فَقَالَ فِي الرِّعَايَةِ الْكُبْرَى بَعْدَ أَنْ قَالَ: وَيُبَاحُ الْكَيُّ لِلضَّرُورَةِ، وَيُكْرَهُ مَعَ عَدَمِهَا، وَعَنْهُ: يُكْرَهُ مُطْلَقًا، وَعَنْهُ يُبَاحُ بَعْدَ الْأَلَمِ لَا قَبْلَهُ وَهُوَ أَصَحُّ. قَالَ وَكَذَا الْخِلَافُ وَالتَّفْصِيلُ فِي الرُّقَى وَالتَّعَاوِيذِ وَالتَّمَائِمِ وَنَحْوِهَا قَبْلَ الْأَلَمِ وَبَعْدَهُ، انْتَهَى. وَقَالَ فِي آدَابِ الرِّعَايَةِ: وَيُكْرَهُ تَعْلِيقُ التَّمَائِمِ وَنَحْوِهَا، وَيُبَاحُ تَعْلِيقُ قِلَادَةٍ فِيهَا قُرْآنٌ أَوْ ذِكْرٌ غَيْرُهُ، نَصَّ عَلَيْهِ، وَكَذَا التعاويذ، وَيَجُوزُ أَنْ يُكْتَبَ الْقُرْآنُ أَوْ ذِكْرٌ غَيْرُهُ بالعربية، ويعلق على مريض، ومطلقة1، وَفِي إنَاءٍ ثُمَّ يُسْقَيَانِ مِنْهُ وَيُرْقَى مِنْ ذَلِكَ وَغَيْرِهِ بِمَا وَرَدَ مِنْ قُرْآنٍ وَذِكْرٍ وَدُعَاءٍ، انْتَهَى. وَقَالَ فِي آدَابِ الْمُسْتَوْعِبِ: وَلَا بَأْسَ بِالْقِلَادَةِ يُعَلِّقُهَا فِيهَا الْقُرْآنُ، وَكَذَا التَّعَاوِيذُ، ولا بأس بالكتاب2 لِلْحُمَّى، وَلَا بَأْسَ بِالرُّقَى مِنْ النَّمْلَةِ3، انْتَهَى. وَقَالَ الْمُصَنِّفُ فِي الْآدَابِ الْكُبْرَى: يُكْرَهُ التَّمَائِمُ وَنَحْوُهَا، كَذَا قِيلَ يُكْرَهُ، وَالصَّوَابُ مَا يَأْتِي مِنْ تَحْرِيمِهِ4 لِمَنْ لَمْ يَرْقِ عَلَيْهَا قُرْآنٌ أَوْ ذِكْرٌ وَدُعَاءٌ، وَإِلَّا احْتَمَلَ وَجْهَيْنِ، وَيَأْتِي أَنَّ الْجَوَازَ قَوْلُ الْقَاضِي، وَأَنَّ الْمَنْعَ ظَاهِرُ الْخَبَرِ وَالْأَثَرِ5. وَتُبَاحُ قِلَادَةٌ فِيهَا قُرْآنٌ أَوْ ذِكْرٌ غَيْرُهُ، وَتَعْلِيقُ مَا هُمَا فِيهِ، نَصَّ عَلَيْهِ، وَكَذَا التَّعَاوِيذُ، وَيَجُوزُ أَنْ يُكْتَبَ لِلْحُمَّى وَالنَّمْلَةِ وَالْعَقْرَبِ وَالْحَيَّةِ وَالصُّدَاعِ وَالْعَيْنِ مَا يَجُوزُ، وَيُرْقَى مِنْ ذَلِكَ بِقُرْآنٍ، وَمَا وَرَدَ فِيهِ مِنْ دُعَاءٍ وَذِكْرٍ، وَيُكْرَهُ بِغَيْرِ الْعَرَبِيَّةِ، وَيَحْرُمُ الرقي والتعوذ بِطَلْسَمٍ وَعَزِيمَةٍ، قَالَ فِي نِهَايَةِ الْمُبْتَدِئِينَ: وَيُكْرَهُ بِغَيْرِ اللِّسَانِ الْعَرَبِيِّ، وَقِيلَ يَحْرُمُ، وَكَذَا الطَّلْسَمُ، وَقَطَعَ فِي مَوْضِعٍ آخَرَ بِالتَّحْرِيمِ، وَقَطَعَ بِهِ غَيْرُهُ. وَقَالَ ابْنُ مَنْصُورٍ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ: هَلْ يُعَلِّقُ شَيْئًا مِنْ الْقُرْآنِ؟ قَالَ: التَّعْلِيقُ كُلُّهُ مَكْرُوهٌ، وَكَذَا قَالَ فِي رِوَايَةِ صَالِحٍ. وَقَالَ الْمَيْمُونِيُّ: سَمِعْت مَنْ سَأَلَ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنْ التَّمَائِمِ تُعَلَّقُ بَعْدَ نُزُولِ الْبَلَاءِ فَقَالَ: أَرْجُو أَنْ لَا يَكُونَ بِهِ بَأْسٌ، قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُد: وَقَدْ رَأَيْت عَلَى ابْنٍ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَهُوَ صَغِيرٌ تَمِيمَةً فِي رَقَبَتِهِ فِي أُدُمٍ، قَالَ الْخَلَّالُ: قَدْ كَتَبَ هُوَ مِنْ الْحُمَّى بَعْدَ نُزُولِ الْبَلَاءِ، وَالْكَرَاهَةُ مِنْ تَعْلِيقِ ذَلِكَ قَبْلَ نُزُولِ الْبَلَاءِ هُوَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْعَمَلُ، انْتَهَى، وَظَاهِرُ كَلَامِ الْمُصَنِّفِ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فِي التَّمِيمَةِ التَّحْرِيمُ. وَقَالَ أَيْضًا: لا بأس بِكَتْبِ قُرْآنٍ أَوْ ذِكْرٍ وَيُسْقَى مِنْهُ مَرِيضٌ أَوْ حَامِلٌ لِعُسْرِ الْوَلَدِ، نَصَّ عَلَيْهِ فَلَمْ يَحْكِ فِيهِ خِلَافًا.

[الفروع وتصحيح الفروع 3/ 248]

[Taliban1]

:salam:

Mufti Sahib,

Please don't Bajain Been infront of the Bhains.

:jazak:

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

Mufti Sahib,

Please don't Bajain Been infront of the Bhains.

:jazak:

Abu Haajira is a Mufti and you are a Maulana.

Shouldn't you two be teaching in a Madrassah somewhere instead of spending all this time on Sunniforum?

[شعيب‎ محمد]

Abu Haajira is a Mufti and you are a Maulana.

Shouldn't you two be teaching in a Madrassah somewhere instead of spending all this time on Sunniforum?

:salam:

Brother they are teaching and we are seeking. We all are here to seek knowledge and that what they are doing.:-) You are so welcome to learn. ;)
.....:-)......

[Abbe]

Abu Haajira is a Mufti and you are a Maulana.

Shouldn't you two be teaching in a Madrassah somewhere instead of spending all this time on Sunniforum?

As long as there are people like you here they have to be here to make sure you don't lead others astray.

[al_Zayn]

:salam:

Brother they are teaching and we are seeking. We all are here to seek knowledge and that what they are doing.:-) You are so welcome to learn. ;)
.....:-)......

Wrong, Shaykh 'Abdul Qaadir is teaching and we are at his feet learning. :lol::lol:

[Mathbooh]

:salam:

Wrong, Shaykh 'Abdul Qaadir is teaching and we are at his feet learning.

lol.Abdul Qadir in his current form takes the cake...i hope the shura seriously considers my suggestion that AQ should be given his own coprocreep section which he will share with others like HH,joshmitsu e.t.c.

wassalam

[FususAlHikam]

Abu Haajira is a Mufti and you are a Maulana.

Shouldn't you two be teaching in a Madrassah somewhere instead of spending all this time on Sunniforum?

O why what happened brother? Why do you want the ulama to leave, dont you want to learn more and be enlightened? Shouldnt we be grateful and utilize these ulama who are spending time posting on the forum for our benefit rather than being elswhere, shouldnt we ask them to post more if we are sincere in our quest for truth and knowledge? What happened brother? Why asking ulama to leave forum?

This is the aim of ghair muqallids aka salafi. The aim is to cut people off from following their scholars, cut people off from following Aimmah - using Quran and Sunnah, sorry, sorry, I mean Quran and Hadith not Sunnah - and then subtly quietly slowely slipping in their own ulama, "Brother, brother! Haraam brother, bidda brother! Dont follow Imam Abu Hanifah, you only need to follow Quran and Hadith..." What a beautiful compelling argument indeed! Ah then comes in the real motive, "Brother, but you dont know Quran and Hadith, so to know what Quran and Hadith are teaching here, here is our Albani, here is our Bin Baz, here is so and so, follow these scholars, our scholars, they follow Quran and Hadith but dont follow those scholars they are not following Quran and Hadith."

These people are not Salafi they are Sulfi, hookah smokers.

[Abdul Qaadir]

O why what happened brother? Why do you want the ulama to leave

I don't consider them as Ulamaa.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Agar tujhe suraj dikhayee naheen de raha hai thoe teri aankh mein kutchh faraq hai.

If you can't see a bright sun, then there is something wrong with your eye.

You don't consider the four imams as scholars. So the matter is close.

[Abdul Qaadir]

Assalamu alaykum

Agar tujhe suraj dikhayee naheen de raha hai thoe teri aankh mein kutchh faraq hai.

If you can't see a bright sun, then there is something wrong with your eye.

You don't consider the four imams as scholars. So the matter is close.

I respect the three imams, they are great scholars

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

There are four imams.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

If you don't consider the fourth imam as scholar then I repeat:

Agar tujhe suraj dikhayee naheen de raha hai thoe teri aankh mein kutchh faraq hai.

If you can't see a bright sun, then there is something wrong with your eye.

[Abdul Qaadir]

Assalamu alaykum

There are four imams.

Yes, there are four imams

i. Abu Bakr :anhu:
ii. Umar :anhu:
iii. Uthman :anhu:
iv. Asadullaah :anhu:

[al_Zayn]

I respect the three imams, they are great scholars

Then where's your respect for the fourth Imam Ya Shaykhana?


i. Abu Bakr :anhu:
ii. Umar :anhu:
iii. Uthman :anhu:
iv. Asadullaah :anhu:

[Abdul Qaadir]

Then where's your respect for the fourth Imam Ya Shaykhana?

There are two sets of Imaams, when I said the three Imaams I was referring to
i. Imaam Ahmad
ii. Imaam Shaafie
iii. Imaam Malik

And the Four Imaams, I have already listed who they are

[godilali]

I respect the three imams, they are great scholars

Your rejection of Abu Hanifah doesn't harm him in the least, just like your shaykh Muqbil's book against Abu Hanifah only served to damage his own reputation.

[Abdul Qaadir]

Your rejection of Abu Hanifah doesn't harm him in the least, just like your shaykh Muqbil's book against Abu Hanifah only served to damage his own reputation.

Shaykh Muqbil :rahim: was a source of guidance for many people. His reputation isn't damaged in the least, he is a great Imaam and loved by all the People of Sunnah and Hadeeth

[ahamed_sharif]

There are two sets of Imaams, when I said the three Imaams I was referring to
i. Imaam Ahmad
ii. Imaam Shaafie
iii. Imaam Malik

And the Four Imaams, I have already listed who they are

If they object to Imam Ahmad and Imam Malik, they have to beg on streets.

[Taliban1]

I respect the three imams, they are great scholars

Sheikh Abdul Qaadir,

Why don't you respect the Fourth Imam?

[abulayl]

Why don't you respect the Fourth Imam?
which one that supposed to be? may i guess? the murji one?

I respect the three imams

Yes, there are four imams

[Taliban1]

which one that supposed to be? may i guess? the murji one?

It's not about joking okay.

Let this remain a serious talk.

I meant Imam Abu Hanifa رحمه الله تعالي

[dr.ati]

It's not about joking okay.

Let this remain a serious talk.

I meant Imam Abu Hanifa رحمه الله تعالي

He was probably being sarcastic.

[Mathbooh]

:salam:

so Shake Abdul Qadir,under which category/list do Ibn Taymiyyah,Abdul Wahhab and aal al faik fall?

[Abdul Qaadir]

which one that supposed to be? may i guess? the murji one?

Yes I consider him a murji. Anyways I have my reasons. If you like him and he is your imaam, more power to you

I don't think Allaah will ask us on the day of judgment why we didn't respect abu haneefah as an imaam. I think He will be more concerned with us having followed Quraan and Sunnah.

[FususAlHikam]

I don't consider them as Ulamaa.

I offered 2 rakaat salaat thanking Allah swt that the world doesnt revolve around you. Get over yourself man.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

I thank Allah swt that I am not amongst the likes of Abdul Qadir

Allahumma inni awoozu bi ilmil laa yanfaa. wa quloobil laa yaqshaa.

[Taliban1]

:salam:

Sheikh Abdul Qaadir, please answer:

Why don't you like him?

:jazak:

[abuhajira]

:salam:

Sheikh Abdul Qaadir, please answer:

Why don't you like him?

:jazak:

:salam:

I want to see dr. ati opinion here. Dr. Ati.. please keep in mind that what Br. Abdul Qaadir (Allah guide him for atleast he is bold and truthful) is mentioning here is the core salafi opinion which is taught in universities in saudi. No amount of sugar coating can deny that.

@ Ml. Taliban : there are 101 reasons to dislike Imam Abu Hanifa r.a, and I think you are aware of them. The fact that they are all wrong reasons doesnt make a diff.

:ws:

[Taliban1]

:salam:

I want Sheikh Abdul Qaadir to explain why He doesn't respect him :)

:jazak:

[hiso]

Dont care for this jaahil's opinion. He has shown disrespect for sayedina imam hussain (ra) then debasing imam abu hanifa will be nothing for him.

[ahamed_sharif]

Dont care for this jaahil's opinion. He has shown disrespect for sayedina imam hussain (ra) then debasing imam abu hanifa will be nothing for him.

Assalamu alaykum


Dont care for this jaahil's opinion.

Let us discuss which tree has produced this fruit.

[hmdsalahuddin]

:salam:

I want Sheikh Abdul Qaadir to explain why He doesn't respect him :)

:jazak:

:ws:

Abdul Qadir is great in misqouting and mistranslating any thing to prove his point and he doesn't tolerate any thing which is against his point.

[hiso]

Assalamu alaykum
Let us discuss which tree has produced this fruit.
:ws:
He cant be a fruit for sure.
Anyway, he might be one of the byproduct of his same type ustads (meraj,talib).

[dr.ati]

:salam:

I want to see dr. ati opinion here. Dr. Ati.. please keep in mind that what Br. Abdul Qaadir (Allah guide him for atleast he is bold and truthful) is mentioning here is the core salafi opinion which is taught in universities in saudi. No amount of sugar coating can deny that.

:ws:

:salam:

I am aware of the pretensions of Salafis against Imam Abu Hanifa ra. I myself had fallen into this propaganda in the beginning but later i realized that how erroneous it is to castigate or think bad of an Imam from the Salaf based on the narrations recorded mainly in volume 13 of Tareekh Baghdad by Khateeb. I have read Shaykh Muqbil's book and he has gathered all such narrations in it. I think it would have been better if he would have avoided writing the book.The book served no good purpose and if one starts collecting all the jarah of the Muhaditheen and take it as some normal bashing , i think very few Muhaditheens and narrators will stay safe then.
I once heard a nauseating speech of Shamshad Salafi , who is infamous for his attacks on Imam Abu Hanifa ra , in which he compared the Imam with Muslima Kadhab(Auzoo bilahi Min Zalik). Unfortunately the speech was recorded in Saudi Arabia and it went unnoticed. I have recently been vocal against such tendencies with in the Salafis. Such Tabara at the Salaf and a pathologically greater interest in antithesis than the thesis itself is the trademark of Shias. This does not leave a good impression.

As far as brother Adbul Qadir's stance is concerned , i am waiting for a detailed reply from him to Maulana Taliban's question.The posts in which he has expressed himself are too short to get a clear picture from. I hope he will clarify the issue positively.
:jazak:

[dr.ati]

The inconsistent babbling of Shahmshad Salafi shows that the Muslims of this era are ready to demolish the basics of Islam in-order to serve their sectarian interests. The words coupled by his body language , tone and complexion gave me a really negative impression of Pakistani Ahli Hadiths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7THxNCeAI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7Sk67ZM_Q&feature=related

[Aram]

no need to be so surprised at the comments of Abdul Qaadir and his likes

we have already been told of such people

"the last ones of this Ummah will curse the first ones" :rolleyes:

[Abdul Qaadir]

:salam:

I want Sheikh Abdul Qaadir to explain why He doesn't respect him :)

:jazak:

You really want me to explain? You really want me to air your dirty laundry. Trust me if I do it - it won't be a pretty sight.

But my aim here is to slowly slowly introduce the misguided Muslims back to the pure Islaam, starting with the basics. When they are ready, then we can go on and discuss the reasons why we need to reject Abu Haneefah as an imaam of Islaam. If, however, we start with that, it will be too traumatic for the Hanafis, because to them Abu Haneefah is like a prophet, and once he is exposed to them it could cause a lot of psychological problems for them. That's why I prefer to slowly deprogram the Hanafis so that they will be ready when the time comes to learn the truth about Abu haneefah

So I don't wish to open this door just yet. But I know for a fact that the Hanafi mullahs and scholars - not the common laity - already know the truth about Abu Haneefah in their heart of hearts. They are like the Jewish rabbis and scholars - who know the truth yet conceal it for their own interests.

Therefore, I will just direct those who really want to know sincerely to go and search YouTube for lectures of Maulana Shamsaad Salafi (hafidhahullaah) regarding the Hanafi madhhab, its history and origins. :insh: you will be enlightened as I was, and :insh: Allaah will guide you to join the saved sect of Islaam - Jamaa'at Ghurabaa Ahlil Hadeeth

P.S. I was raised a Hanafi all my life. My forefathers and their forefathers were Hanafis. But :alhamd: that Allaah showed me the truth.

As Imaam Ayoob as Sakhtiyaani :rahim: once said, "From the success of a youth or a non-Arab is that Allaah guides him to a scholar of the Sunnah."

I find this saying of the great Imaam of the salaf very amazingly true. Imagine me, from a hanafi background going back generations, suddenly being guided to such scholars as Shaykh Muqbil ibnu Haadi al Waadi'iee :rahim: and his successor Shaykh Yahyaa al Haajoori, all the way from Yemen, even though my motherland is Pakistan. How many Pakistanis you know who have abandoned these useless mullahs who are basically story tellers and fortune tellers....abandoning these guys and being guided to Ulamaa from completely different lands...lands much closer to the heart of Islaam and considered blessed by Rasoolullaah :saw:

[hiso]

Blah... Blah... Blah...


Can the moderators please ban this filthy ****** guy.

[Taliban1]

استغفرالله العظيم

I haven't seen a more ****** person than this guy in my whole life!!!!!

Ya Allah!

If he had said this infront of me, he would have been in a hospital right now.

This type of sick attitude pushes away even your own people. The salafis here are getting sick of Tauseef ur Rahman :)

They've asked him to adopt a more decent way.

[nameuser]

salaam:

i think some people are blaming islam by showing their harsh attitude towards their fellow muslim brother @abdul qadir. i don't see any bad in him. Mashallah he is very well behaved and very peaceful in arguing. He is a new comer to this forum and it will take time to him to adjust with the environment of this forum. People welcome him and take it easy. don't be too harsh it is intolerable and cannot be acceptable in any way. Just leave him alone.. don't try to jump to correct him with ur unpleasant behavior for small reasons.
i hope u all understand and be within ur limits!

[Taliban1]

salaam:

i think some people are blaming islam by showing their harsh attitude towards their fellow muslim brother @abdul qadir. i don't see any bad in him. Mashallah he is very well behaved and very peaceful in arguing. He is a new comer to this forum and it will take time to him to adjust with the environment of this forum. People welcome him and take it easy. don't be too harsh it is intolerable and cannot be acceptable in any way. Just leave him alone.. don't try to jump to correct him with ur unpleasant behavior for small reasons.
i hope u all understand and be within ur limits!

:ws:

Please read this post

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?70997-A-strange-amulet-in-Bahishti-Zewar&p=633507&viewfull=1#post633507

And show me the beauty in it, I fail to see it.

[nameuser]

salaam:

I feel sorry for him. He is just a misguided kid. u guys should guide him the right path by representing urself as a good muslim by following the ways of teaching of our beloved Prophet :saw:..
if u guys kick him out then he will find no way to seek the truth. Just take it easy and help in clearing his doubts!

[Taliban1]

salaam:

I feel sorry for him. He is just a misguided kid. u guys should guide him the right path by representing urself as a good muslim by following the ways of teaching of our beloved Prophet :saw:..
if u guys kick him out then he will find no way to seek the truth. Just take it easy and help in clearing his doubts!

:ws:

You know him personally?

[nameuser]

salaam:


"Leave what is Doubtful, and turn to what does Not cause you Doubt."[Tirmidhi]

[Taliban1]

salaam:


"Leave what is Doubtful, and turn to what does Not cause you Doubt."[Tirmidhi]

:ws:

How did you know he is a kid?

[nameuser]

salaam:

if he is a kid or not a kid really doesn't matter but what matters most is ur responsibility as a muslim towards ur fellow muslims... so just keep this in mind and keep going being respectful...

[FususAlHikam]

:ws:

Abdul Qadir is great in misqouting and mistranslating any thing to prove his point and he doesn't tolerate any thing which is against his point.

Ya this is all ghair muqallideen aka salafi tactics

[FususAlHikam]

no need to be so surprised at the comments of Abdul Qaadir and his likes

we have already been told of such people

"the last ones of this Ummah will curse the first ones" :rolleyes:

mmm I heard that!

[FususAlHikam]

You really want me to explain? You really want me to air your dirty laundry. Trust me if I do it - it won't be a pretty sight.

But my aim here is to slowly slowly introduce the misguided Muslims back to the pure Islaam, starting with the basics. When they are ready, then we can go on and discuss the reasons why we need to reject Abu Haneefah as an imaam of Islaam. If, however, we start with that, it will be too traumatic for the Hanafis, because to them Abu Haneefah is like a prophet, and once he is exposed to them it could cause a lot of psychological problems for them. That's why I prefer to slowly deprogram the Hanafis so that they will be ready when the time comes to learn the truth about Abu haneefah

So I don't wish to open this door just yet. But I know for a fact that the Hanafi mullahs and scholars - not the common laity - already know the truth about Abu Haneefah in their heart of hearts. They are like the Jewish rabbis and scholars - who know the truth yet conceal it for their own interests.

Therefore, I will just direct those who really want to know sincerely to go and search YouTube for lectures of Maulana Shamsaad Salafi (hafidhahullaah) regarding the Hanafi madhhab, its history and origins. :insh: you will be enlightened as I was, and :insh: Allaah will guide you to join the saved sect of Islaam - Jamaa'at Ghurabaa Ahlil Hadeeth

P.S. I was raised a Hanafi all my life. My forefathers and their forefathers were Hanafis. But :alhamd: that Allaah showed me the truth.

As Imaam Ayoob as Sakhtiyaani :rahim: once said, "From the success of a youth or a non-Arab is that Allaah guides him to a scholar of the Sunnah."

I find this saying of the great Imaam of the salaf very amazingly true. Imagine me, from a hanafi background going back generations, suddenly being guided to such scholars as Shaykh Muqbil ibnu Haadi al Waadi'iee :rahim: and his successor Shaykh Yahyaa al Haajoori, all the way from Yemen, even though my motherland is Pakistan. How many Pakistanis you know who have abandoned these useless mullahs who are basically story tellers and fortune tellers....abandoning these guys and being guided to Ulamaa from completely different lands...lands much closer to the heart of Islaam and considered blessed by Rasoolullaah :saw:

This is disgusting. I dont know about him going to the hospital but if he said this to me in person Moulana Abu Hajirah and Moulana Polygamy aka Moulana Taliban would have to post bail for me.