Is it necessary to select one particular Mazhab for neo Muslimn

[iabhortrinity]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I was a christian from India but for last two years I read Koran very religiously and inclined towards its teaching especially about Jesus and Mary. Now I want to accept Islam but I am in fix brother. Do I need to adhere to any particular Mazhab for my own salvation. Please remember I am new to Islam so answer in lucid manner which I could understand easily.

Thanks

[hmdsalahuddin]

One who is not mujtahid (capable to derive ruling from the main sources of Quran and Hadith) it is must for him to follow any mujtahid Imam.

in simple words.

Those who do not possess the requirements of ijtihad (deriving the solution of matters directly from Quran and Hadith) they must follow any imam from the Four Imams in istenbati (derivated) matter

[Maripat]

Dear Brother,
Sign of a believer is that he loves Allah excessively.
So religion (deen) is a matter of love.
Beloved Prophet (PBUH) said that your religion will not be complete till you love him more than anybody else.
So again religion is a matter of love. Love of Allah (SWT) and love of Prophet (PBUH).
The four mazahib are derived from the teachings of the beloved Companions (RA). Not following one of them is like denying all of them, putting ourselves at a higher pedestal. Respect four, follow one is the dictum. If we love the Companions (RA) then we shall annihilate our opinion over their teachings.
In modern times obsession with our intellectual capabilities has created some discord and love is the solution.
I expect that the Scholars will soon elaborate on your query and I hope this serves as an appetizer.

[iabhortrinity]

One who is not mujtahid (capable to derive ruling from the main sources of Quran and Hadith) it is must for him to follow any mujtahid Imam.

in simple words.

Those who do not possess the requirements of ijtihad (deriving the solution of matters directly from Quran and Hadith) they must follow any imam from the Four Imams in istenbati (derivated) matter

Dear Brother Salahuddin,

Thanks for your reply. That means the one who does not have knowledge on Islamic rulings has to follow one particular Mazhab and those who are capable enough on derivated matters are free from following any particular Mazhab.

Since I do not have knowledge I must follow one particular Mazhab. But then I can ask any knowledgeable person if I do not know the Islamic matter without being sticking to one particular Mazhab. My second question to you is how would I select any particular Mazhab. I have no knowledge on this subject I need your help.

[iabhortrinity]

Dear Brother,
Sign of a believer is that he loves Allah excessively.
So religion (deen) is a matter of love.
Beloved Prophet (PBUH) said that your religion will not be complete till you love him more than anybody else.
So again religion is a matter of love. Love of Allah (SWT) and love of Prophet (PBUH).
The four mazahib are derived from the teachings of the beloved Companions (RA). Not following one of them is like denying all of them, putting ourselves at a higher pedestal. Respect four, follow one is the dictum. If we love the Companions (RA) then we shall annihilate our opinion over their teachings.
In modern times obsession with our intellectual capabilities has created some discord and love is the solution.
I expect that the Scholars will soon elaborate on your query and I hope this serves as an appetizer.

Dear Brother,

Thank you very much. You guys are so passionate about Islam Hats off to you. This is one thing which is really missing in Christianity.

Anyway, my dear brother. As I said I am new to Islam so obviously my IQ in understanding Islam is very low I feel piety about myself I want to be like you guys God willing. Please pray for me.

In Christianity the basic problem is the groupism every christian loves his own group and hates other groups. But Islam is really a different religion brothers there are groups but all of them love each other.

You said I need to love Allah and Prophet Mohammed more than anything else in this world to become a rightous Muslim. I think I did not find any Muslim who do not love Allah and Prophet Mohammed. In fact Christians also love JESUS the LORD more than any thing else in the world. So what is the difference between a Christian and a Muslim.

You said Four Mazhabs are derived from the teaching of Companions of Prophet Mohammed. I was under the impression that Mazhabs are derived from Koran and Sayings of Prophet Mohammed. Thank you for correcting me.

You might be knowing that present day christianity is also derived from Luke, Micheal, St. Paul, St. Barnabas, and so on....

Anyway, thanks for your information that there are four Mazhabs presently. I want to know brother when these Mazhabs came into existence and which is the oldest one.

Thanks once again brother.

Regards

[Maripat]

Dear Brother,
The Quran and the Prophetic traditions (hadith) have come to us through the Companions (RA). They are the transmitters and not originators of the religion. I mentioned the Companions (RA) because that was the info most relevant to your question.

Having come to Islam leave Christianity behind and focus on internalizing Islam in your life. Do an istikhara for adopting a mazhab and last but not the least start working on your near and dear ones for calling them to the true path.

[iabhortrinity]

Dear Brother,
The Quran and the Prophetic traditions (hadith) have come to us through the Companions (RA). They are the transmitters and not originators of the religion. I mentioned the Companions (RA) because that was the info most relevant to your question.

Having come to Islam leave Christianity behind and focus on internalizing Islam in your life. Do an istikhara for adopting a mazhab and last but not the least start working on your near and dear ones for calling them to the true path.

Thank you brother Maripat for correcting me. May God give you reward for this act of kindness. What is Istikhara brother and how it helps in selecting Mazhab. What is the difference between Mazhab and Madhab and what is deen, what is the difference between Deen and Mazhab. God has revealed Deen or Mazhab or both. Please clarify.

Regards,

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

1. All the four madhabs are on Quran and Sunnah of Rasulullah Sallalahu alayhi wa sallam.

2. The follower of each madhabs agrees that the other three madhabs are also on quran and sunnah.

3. There is no division in society based on madhabs. Inter madhabs marriages are permitted and are common in society.

4. If a Imam who leads in the masjid is of a particular madhab other madhab followers pray behind him. In makkah and madeenah masjids the Imams follow hanbli madhabs and hanbli followers behind the imam may be less than 10 percent (during haj and ramadhan).

So there is no rivalrly and factions.

Being a muslim one aims at following the Islam the best possible way. For this Alhamdulillah for 1200 years the madhabs have helped in this cause.

Regarding following all the madhabs together, it is experienced that a common muslim who is doing this faced complications.

[Maripat]

And mazhab and madhab are one and the same thing. Latter gives a more correct pronunciation. Istikhara is done in those situations when you have to make a choice but logic and external circumstances do not lead to any clear answer. Here (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?ID=1056) is one description for doing istikhara.

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum

1. All the four madhabs are on Quran and Sunnah of Rasulullah Sallalahu alayhi wa sallam.

2. The follower of each madhabs agrees that the other three madhabs are also on quran and sunnah.

3. There is no division in society based on madhabs. Inter madhabs marriages are permitted and are common in society.

4. If a Imam who leads in the masjid is of a particular madhab other madhab followers pray behind him. In makkah and madeenah masjids the Imams follow hanbli madhabs and hanbli followers behind the imam may be less than 10 percent (during haj and ramadhan).

So there is no rivalrly and factions.

Being a muslim one aims at following the Islam the best possible way. For this Alhamdulillah for 1200 years the madhabs have helped in this cause.

Regarding following all the madhabs together, it is experienced that a common muslim who is doing this faced complications.

Thank you Brother Ahmed Sharif for valuable information you have shared with me. One request to all my Brothers and Sisters please keep in mind that I am a neo Muslim so reply with simple languages which are easy to understand.

From your post I have learnt that there are four Madhabs. It also clarifies my doubt that Madhab and Mazhabs are same. But then what is Deen now e.g one of my Muslim friends said that Islam is deen or Deene Islam but we can not say Deen e Hanfi that means Deen and Madhab/Mazhab are two different things. So if one is following Deene Islam it is not necessary that he is also following Madhab at the same time however on the other hand if one is following Madhab/Mazhab one is also following Deen Islam at the same time. Interesting phenomena brothers and sisters.

Then you said at one point of time a Muslim can follow one particular Mazhab and not all. That means there are differences between all the four Mazhabs. Then if there are differences in all the four Mazhabs then how come all the four have been derived from Koran and Prophetic Sayings. That means there are differences in Koran and Prophetic saying as well. Or all the four have interpreted in different ways this is the other possibility.

The same thing is prevalent in Christianity. Protestant have interpreted Christianity differently that that of Roman Catholic and hence there are many differences among themselve now as a neo Muslim I find same differences in Islam what is the point accepting it. I thought Islam is the religion of no confusion brothers and sister but I think I was wrong I need to research more which is the religion which is free from confusion.

Regards,

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

I was going through a Medical article.

There are many types of surgical methods which are presently available to treat colon infection but every treatment has the same aim- to remove that part of the colon which is infected

Colonoscopic excision

Local Excision

Bowel resection

Abdominoperineal excision

Now should the patient ask the surgeon to explain in detail about each type of surgery. Then he will chose the type.

[Maripat]

Your doubt is a rather common one brother. Please work on it with patience. Clarifications dawn on us with a bingo too but that is not the case most of the time. In most of the cases we have to work slowly on it. Existence of four mazahib (plural of mazhab/madhab) is bothering you. That is understandable. It has bothered Muslims too in past. It does not bother us now, as you have acknowledged. It is like unity in diversity. By having four mazahib Allah Most High has preserved all the actions of beloved Prophet (PBUH). For example sometimes beloved Prophet (PBUH) folded his hands below navel and sometimes above navel. Both of these actions are preserved in the way people pray now a days. Is it controversial, brother iabhoretrinity, that some Muslims follow one method and others another?

I am hopping that you shall take your plunge (actually the flight) into Islam sooner than later. This is one decision that should be made at the earliest.

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum

I was going through a Medical article.

There are many types of surgical methods which are presently available to treat colon infection but every treatment has the same aim- to remove that part of the colon which is infected

Colonoscopic excision

Local Excision

Bowel resection

Abdominoperineal excision

Now should the patient ask the surgeon to explain in detail about each type of surgery. Then he will chose the type.

Dear Brother Sharif,

Is your post for this thread. If yes then I have not understood any thing from your post how this is relevent

Regards

[Aspirer]

Dear Brother Sharif,

Is your post for this thread. If yes then I have not understood any thing from your post how this is relevent

Regards

The point he is making is that the central matter, is that of adhering to the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:. Now, the thing of it is, the Qur'an is a complicated book and it is an easy book at the same time; it is easy to memorize and complicated to understand and interpret. The Sunnah of the Prophet :saw: consists of well over 100,000 authentic traditions and several hundred thousand more which are less than authentic but still utilized.

When you have material this complex and all-encompassing, there will be slight differences in interpretation. Do the differences matter? No. Do you need to worry about it? No. Do mad'habs hate other mad'habs? No! I try to love every Muslim brother, all of them, and all the mad'habs are just great.

As for how to choose one, I just ended up choosing to follow the Hanafi mad'hab because a couple of the brothers who taught me stuff after my conversion were Hanafi. It doesn't matter. They're all truth. Different lanes on siratul mustaqim. You get me?

[iabhortrinity]

Your doubt is a rather common one brother. Please work on it with patience. Clarifications dawn on us with a bingo too but that is not the case most of the time. In most of the cases we have to work slowly on it. Existence of four mazahib (plural of mazhab/madhab) is bothering you. That is understandable. It has bothered Muslims too in past. It does not bother us now, as you have acknowledged. It is like unity in diversity. By having four mazahib Allah Most High has preserved all the actions of beloved Prophet (PBUH). For example sometimes beloved Prophet (PBUH) folded his hands below navel and sometimes above navel. Both of these actions are preserved in the way people pray now a days. Is it controversial, brother iabhoretrinity, that some Muslims follow one method and others another?

I am hopping that you shall take your plunge (actually the flight) into Islam sooner than later. This is one decision that should be made at the earliest.

Thank you Brother Maripat for understanding my problem... Yes the Madhab/Mazhab version of Islam bothering me too much so much so that I feel like going back to square one. I had a high reverence of Koran, Prophetic Sayings, Prophet Companions, Scholars that no match is found in any of the living relegion of today. That is the reason I accepted Islam now this Madhab is deterrent in accepting Islam.

Now you say that in all the four Madhabs prophetic actions are preserved and followers of particular mazhabs are performing prophetic actions and then you cited example about folding hand below naval and above naval. I think you are referring to Salah/Namaz. Now my simple question is; the same person can in one salah fold his hand below naval and in other salah he can fold above the naval so both the actions of prophet will be followed by same person at two different occasion. It is simple why we need a particular Madhab that he has to follow all his life only one deed either to fold hand above or below the naval not both. Who is stopping him the Madhabs, that means the Madhabs stops you from following Prophetic Deeds and Actions.

Correct me brother if I am wrong I am totally confused brother

Regards Brother

[abulayl]

Who is stopping him the Madhabs, that means the Madhabs stops you from following Prophetic Deeds and Actions.

Correct me brother if I am wrong I am totally confused brother

Regards Brother
:salam: no brother , a madhab helps you to follow prophetic deeds better way as companion of prophet(sw) understood. As long as you follow one prophetic action and prefer to do so, why bother to do another prophetic action when you have already prefered to follow another one? why you want to leave a prophetic action which you have done already?

Islam is easy and its not like army rules that all dress in same way and do´s left-right at same time. start to learn Islam from a scholar and you have done your job.You dont need to learn the whole medical books to know how to cure yourself from fever or headache.

Madhabs are all from prophetic deeds and action, it just differs which one scholars prefer to be more better.

As a new muslim you start to learn with basic , get grip on it, with the time your understanding will be more deep which will be useful for learning various islamic science.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


Now my simple question is; the same person can in one salah fold his hand below naval and in other salah he can fold above the naval so both the actions of prophet will be followed by same person at two different occasion.

So according to you the solution is fold hands below naval once and in next salah above the naval. And keep track of what you did in the last salah. Good go ahead.

[iabhortrinity]

The point he is making is that the central matter, is that of adhering to the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:. Now, the thing of it is, the Qur'an is a complicated book and it is an easy book at the same time; it is easy to memorize and complicated to understand and interpret. The Sunnah of the Prophet :saw: consists of well over 100,000 authentic traditions and several hundred thousand more which are less than authentic but still utilized.

When you have material this complex and all-encompassing, there will be slight differences in interpretation. Do the differences matter? No. Do you need to worry about it? No. Do mad'habs hate other mad'habs? No! I try to love every Muslim brother, all of them, and all the mad'habs are just great.

As for how to choose one, I just ended up choosing to follow the Hanafi mad'hab because a couple of the brothers who taught me stuff after my conversion were Hanafi. It doesn't matter. They're all truth. Different lanes on siratul mustaqim. You get me?

Ok Brother Aspirer,

Thank you for making me understand the Madhab version of Islam and also to understand Ahmed Sharif Post. What you are trying to tell me that since Quran is difficult to understand and Hadees are numerous for a lay man or a neo muslim it will be difficult to understand Islam in totality. So you need a Imam and follow his sayings in toto like a patient without asking youyr surgoen which method you are going to remove the decease just lye down and give your portion to doctors.

It is very much like DOGMA of VATICAN CITY brother. I think there is hardly any difference between Madhab Version of Islam and Christianity. Your post are making me feel encouraged to go back to my old religion and thank you for being instrumental dear brothers and sisters in Islam

Now the simily which Ahmed Sharif has posted is totally wrong as per Koran and believe me Koran is very easy to understand (Surah Al Qamar Verse 17, 22, 32 and 40) Koran says do not follow which you do not know (The Verse says : And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed hearing, sight and heart about all those will be questioned 17:36)

If the junior Doctor is performing operation you will certainly ask whether you have confirmed from the Sr Doctor that this or that method will you follow during operation. The Sr. Doctor in this case is our Prophet. Imam is junior doctor so difinitely you will ask ypu Imam whether his saying is asper senior doctor or not.

Hope this makes thing more relevant.

Regards brother.

[Maripat]

That is the reason I accepted Islam...


This clarifies one of my doubts. Thanks for asserting that you have come to Islam. My heartiest congratulations.

Now coming back to confusion. I shall again begin by acknowledging that confusions can be debilitating. May Allah Most High bring you out of it. For the time being keep it aside and focus on other aspects of worship. (I know it is easy to say but difficult to implement.) I am sure you would not like to be a fickle minded person following one Mazhab in the morning and another in the evening.

Please recite the Third Kalima ( see here (http://www.itsislam.net/basics/6_Kalimas.asp#)for Arabic audio) a hundred times in the morning and in the evening. Being an inquisitive type of person you'd like to know the meaning too and that will be of much help. Lord Most High willing this should lead to the melting of your doubts. Alternatively you could simply recite Ya Hadi and Ya Rahim a hundred times both in the morning and evening. This should have the same effect.

Finally you need a hug. I hope you are living in the neighbourhood of a Shaikh. A hug by sinners like us will be of little value.

May Allah keep us firm on Islam.

[Maripat]

Logging off for the day! Too many of us jumping on brother who hates trinity!

[abulayl]

It is very much like DOGMA of VATICAN CITY brother.
bro vatican says pope can forgive your sin, Islam says only Allah can forgive your sin.

Tell us more about vatican and then mention what are the things of madhab which make it like vatican.

Now the simily which Ahmed Sharif has posted is totally wrong as per Koran and believe me Koran is very easy to understand (Surah Al Qamar Verse 17, 22, 32 and 40) Koran says do not follow which you do not know (The Verse says : And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed hearing, sight and heart about all those will be questioned 17:36)

yes bro, its easy to understand which will bring you to jannah. But not the whole Quran as understanding the whole quran is irrelevant for any laymen or muslim.

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum


So according to you the solution is fold hands below naval once and in next salah above the naval. And keep track of what you did in the last salah. Good go ahead.

If you love your prophet I presume this much pain you can take. Do not find the easy thing to follow all the time.

[abulayl]

If you love your prophet I presume this much pain you can take. Do not find the easy thing to follow all the time.
what makes folding hand below navel easier than folding hand on chest ?

or what makes folding hand on chest easier than folding hand below navel?

You suppose to follow th prophetic action whcih you prefer, be it a easy one or a hard one.

For example if a person follows shafi madhab , he prefers to do wudhu if he touches his wife. So its hard for them but for hanafis its not like that.

But if a hanafi starts to bleeding he gotta do his wudhu, but shafis dont.

So see bro, hardness-. easiness is present overall. Muslim dont practise just to take easier one but the more preferble one which he thinks. And scholars knows the context and rules better about the text , so you trust them and learn from them otherwise become one scholar.

[iabhortrinity]

bro vatican says pope can forgive your sin, Islam says only Allah can forgive your sin.

Tell us more about vatican and then mention what are the things of madhab which make it like vatican.
yes bro, its easy to understand which will bring you to jannah. But not the whole Quran as understanding the whole quran is irrelevant for any laymen or muslim.

Dear Brother,

The Bible says do not touch the flesh of swine the DOGMA says you can eat Pork
The Bible says Jesus is a Prophet the DOGMA says JESUS is son of God.
Bible has no concept of Trinity DOGMA has
Bible has no mentioning of Jesus Crucifixion the dogma say it is central creed to christianity.

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

what makes folding hand below navel easier than folding hand on chest ?

or what makes folding hand on chest easier than folding hand below navel?

You suppose to follow th prophetic action whcih you prefer, be it a easy one or a hard one.

For example if a person follows shafi madhab , he prefers to do wudhu if he touches his wife. So its hard for them but for hanafis its not like that.

But if a hanafi starts to bleeding he gotta do his wudhu, but shafis dont.

So see bro, hardness-. easiness is present overall. Muslim dont practise just to take easier one but the more preferble one which he thinks. And scholars knows the context and rules better about the text , so you trust them and learn from them otherwise become one scholar.

I think brother you have not understood my post I said if Prophet Mohammed used to perform salah and keep hand sometimes below the naval and sometimes above the naval you can also do the same way if you really love him. All the time below naval will you not reject his other sunnah.

Regards

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


All the time below naval will you not reject his other sunnah.

How about a group follows one sunnah and the other group follow the other sunnah. So that all actions of Rasulullah are alive till the last day.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

dp

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum



How about a group follows one sunnah and the other group follow the other sunnah. So that all actions of Rasulullah are alive till the last day.

Who has given this authority to distribute Prophetic Sunnah in four groups and follow them accordingly. The Sunnah are like property which are distributed among sons and daughters and who so ever gets what so ever is happy with it. How can you break Islam in four and still one. Is it like trinity, three but one. Illogical doesn't it.

Secondly please tell me you keep your hand below naval because of sunnah or because of your Imam.

If Shafi wudu is nullified because of touching wife is it because of sunnah or because of Imam.

If Hanafi wudu is nullified if blood oozes out it is because of Sunnah or because of Imam.

Sorry to tell you brother that your Madhab is even complicated than DOGMA. You know what we christians used to say that we love JESUS but we actually loved St. Paul or Saul a former JEWS who after 80 years of JESUS said that I accepted christianity and now JESUS said that you have to believe in Trinity the whole christian started believing in Trinity. He then made pork legitimatye the whole christian world started eating pork and there are many such examples where christians followed there Saint or Imam. So where is the love for JESUS.

Likewise. Muslim say we love Prophet Mohammed but follow their Imam without knowing the truth from scriptures. So they love whom, Prophet or Imam.

Now lastly let me ask you one thing to conclude Is there any group of Muslim in the world who do not follow any Madhab. If this is the case then I think I do not have an y choice other than to follow one of the four Madhabs.

Kindly reply with keeping God inside your heart. Means fear God and then reply brother.

Regards,

[ahamed_sharif]

Kindly reply with keeping God inside your heart. Means fear God and then reply brother.

I do!!!!


Who has given this authority to distribute Prophetic Sunnah in four groups and follow them accordingly.

Scholars with best of knowledge about Quran and Sunnah and approved by scholars who possessed best of knowledge about quran and sunnah.


Secondly please tell me you keep your hand below naval because of sunnah or because of your Imam.

Because it is sunnah. Imam had reference for that.


If Shafi wudu is nullified because of touching wife is it because of sunnah or because of Imam.

It is as per quran and sunnah. Imam has reference for that.


If Hanafi wudu is nullified if blood oozes out it is because of Sunnah or because of Imam.

It is because it is per quran and sunnah and imam had reference for that.


we love JESUS but we actually loved St. Paul or Saul

But we love Rasulullah SAS and acutally we do love Rasulullah SAS. That's why we follow the imam, he takes us near to Rasulullah SAS sunnah. I am an hanafi and still love imam shafaee, Imam ahamed bin hanbal and Imam maalik.


He then made pork legitimatye the whole christian world started eating pork and there are many such examples where christians followed there Saint or Imam. So where is the love for JESUS.

Imams didn't gave anything which was against the wish of Rasulullah SAS. Rather they tried their level best to keep it closer to quran and sunnah. The whole ummah has faith in that.


Likewise. Muslim say we love Prophet Mohammed but follow their Imam without knowing the truth from scriptures. So they love whom, Prophet or Imam.

Imam knew the scriptures much much better than us. Thats why they are Imams. And scholars who gave approval were master in the study of scriptures.


Now lastly let me ask you one thing to conclude Is there any group of Muslim in the world who do not follow any Madhab. If this is the case then I think I do not have an y choice other than to follow one of the four Madhabs

I warn you, the group which was formed to remove the division is divided into 4 in a house, 40 in one masjid and four hundred in a state. That was warned much before, early in the first century itself. So get attached one madhab and be safe with your deen.

Alternatively, get the following books read them and make your own rulings:

Quran, its tafseer, hadeeth books, history books etc. But who will give approval.

There are already about 1.5 million rulings in hand, which you need not re-invent the wheel.

[dr.ati]

A new revert brother is asking for help and the thread has been converted into Taqleed/anti-Taqleed battle zone? Kindly take this **** to another thread.Have some sense of responsibility and judge the impact of these ego-driven posts on the brother.
@ OP , brother kindly visit the nearest mosque to you and start learning the basics.The issue of selecting and not selecting a Madhab can later be sorted out as you shall get the basic education and you will be able to decide for yourself which way to go.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


A new revert brother is asking for help and the thread has been converted into Taqleed/anti-Taqleed battle zone? Kindly take this **** to another thread.Have some sense of responsibility and judge the impact of these ego-driven posts on the brother.
@ OP , brother kindly visit the nearest mosque to you and start learning the basics.The issue of selecting and not selecting a Madhab can later be sorted out as you shall get the basic education and you will be able to decide for yourself which way to go.

Who has given reference to those Quran ayah which he quoted, who has told him about division in madhabs, who has given sermons on following the quran and sunnah to him , who has told him about imams, etc. Just read through his post who are at fault.
Ask him to follow his own rule
Kindly reply with keeping God inside your heart. Means fear God and then reply brother.
We all are all converted muslims and we were and are safe in madhabs.

[Salman_Hanafi]

A new revert brother is asking for help and the thread has been converted into Taqleed/anti-Taqleed battle zone? Kindly take this **** to another thread.Have some sense of responsibility and judge the impact of these ego-driven posts on the brother.
@ OP , brother kindly visit the nearest mosque to you and start learning the basics.The issue of selecting and not selecting a Madhab can later be sorted out as you shall get the basic education and you will be able to decide for yourself which way to go.

:salam:...I made this thread here just for this purpose.....I hope some alim will come here and take the revert brother out of the tangle....

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?71115-Thread-requires-some-attention&p=596929#post596929

:ws:

[iabhortrinity]

A new revert brother is asking for help and the thread has been converted into Taqleed/anti-Taqleed battle zone? Kindly take this **** to another thread.Have some sense of responsibility and judge the impact of these ego-driven posts on the brother.
@ OP , brother kindly visit the nearest mosque to you and start learning the basics.The issue of selecting and not selecting a Madhab can later be sorted out as you shall get the basic education and you will be able to decide for yourself which way to go.

Dear Brother Dr. Ati,

I feel indebted to you for your highly sensible and reasonable reply. I am moved. Yes Brother I was totally confused I moved from pillar to post from one maulvi to another from one scholar to another from one person to another I traveled from Kerala to Delhi and believe me brother the more I tried for water the more it was away from me and I could not quench my thirst. I resigned from the job, I put my family at stake, I even starved dear brother but all my effort were in vain. I would have gone back to Christianity long time ago Had not I read Quran with understanding, unmatcheable book none of the book can compete with such a marvellous book and any non Muslim if reads once will yell that this is the word of God it is not written by any body. But Alas Muslims have thrown this book in the bin. Or kept higher and higher on the shelf not to reach whole life except when one dies. It seems the book is for deceased and not for alive.
Each and every Mullah, Scholars, Moulvi whom I met did not say in black and white that enough for a Muslim is to stick Book of Allah and Saheeh Hadees. Both are revelation both are wahi both are word of Allah. Instead they all said stick to this madhab, stick to this school of thought, follow this ideology follow this Imam follow that Imam and so on so forth. None of them precisely said follow Koran and Hadees simple.

Regards,

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Just read this post


I feel indebted to you for your highly sensible and reasonable reply. I am moved. Yes Brother I was totally confused I moved from pillar to post from one maulvi to another from one scholar to another from one person to another I traveled from Kerala to Delhi and believe me brother the more I tried for water the more it was away from me and I could not quench my thirst. I resigned from the job, I put my family at stake, I even starved dear brother but all my effort were in vain. I would have gone back to Christianity long time ago Had not I read Quran with understanding, unmatcheable book none of the book can compete with such a marvellous book and any non Muslim if reads once will yell that this is the word of God it is not written by any body. But Alas Muslims have thrown this book in the bin. Or kept higher and higher on the shelf not to reach whole life except when one dies. It seems the book is for deceased and not for alive.
Each and every Mullah, Scholars, Moulvi whom I met did not say in black and white that enough for a Muslim is to stick Book of Allah and Saheeh Hadees. Both are revelation both are wahi both are word of Allah. Instead they all said stick to this madhab, stick to this school of thought, follow this ideology follow this Imam f ollow that Imam and so on so forth. None of them precisely said follow Koran and Hadees simple.

Now Wallah tell me the truth. How did you get that information about the words I have put in bold letters.

[dr.ati]

Dear Brother Dr. Ati,

I feel indebted to you for your highly sensible and reasonable reply. I am moved. Yes Brother I was totally confused I moved from pillar to post from one maulvi to another from one scholar to another from one person to another I traveled from Kerala to Delhi and believe me brother the more I tried for water the more it was away from me and I could not quench my thirst. I resigned from the job, I put my family at stake, I even starved dear brother but all my effort were in vain. I would have gone back to Christianity long time ago Had not I read Quran with understanding, unmatchable book none of the book can compete with such a marvellous book and any non Muslim if reads once will yell that this is the word of God it is not written by any body. But Alas Muslims have thrown this book in the bin. Or kept higher and higher on the shelf not to reach whole life except when one dies. It seems the book is for deceased and not for alive.
Each and every Mullah, Scholars, Moulvi whom I met did not say in black and white that enough for a Muslim is to stick Book of Allah and Saheeh Hadees. Both are revelation both are wahi both are word of Allah. Instead they all said stick to this madhab, stick to this school of thought, follow this ideology follow this Imam follow that Imam and so on so forth. None of them precisely said follow Koran and Hadees simple.

Regards,

May Allah reward you for the your efforts towards understanding the truth. The basic issue is that HAQ is not the inheritance and property of a single person or a group and thats what Islam tells us. Submission to one God , an unconditional submission which is promised by Islam , makes a person Muslim irrespective of his color , creed or language. This is the beautiful generalization of Islam which is attracting people towards it. Unfortunately, as in the case of every "popularly sold item" , people make claims to HAQ and try to individualize Islam by the tactics of creating divisions in the name of FIQH , ie rulings in rituals and day to day affairs which are of secondary importance. They do it just to make themselves look distinct and it has no basis in Islam. Its an agreed upon by all matter that the differences of FIQH never take a person out of the fold of Islam but thanks to the " item sellers" , they make it look so.
Practically speaking , as you live in India , I would suggest you to visit any orthodox Deobandi Scholar and learn the basic theology from him. You can improve that as you learn more. It will make your journey in Islam more pleasant. May Allah help you in your efforts and may Allah give you the fiham of Islam so that you show the way to others . Ameen

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


May Allah reward you for the your efforts towards understanding the truth. The basic issue is that HAQ is not the inheritance and property of a single person or a group and thats what Islam tells us. Submission to one God , an unconditional submission which is promised by Islam , makes a person Muslim irrespective of his color , creed or language. This is the beautiful generalization of Islam which is attracting people towards it. Unfortunately, as in the case of every "popularly sold item" , people make claims to HAQ and try to individualize Islam by the tactics of creating division in the name of FIQH , ie rulings in rituals and day to day affairs which are of secondary importance. They do it just to make themselves look distinct and it has no basis in Islam. Its an agreed upon by all matter that the differences of FIQH never take a person out of the fold of Islam but thanks to the " item sellers" , they make it look so.
Practically speaking , as you live in India , I would suggest you to visit any orthodox Deobandi Scholar and learn the basic theology from him. You can improve that as you learn more. It will make your journey in Islam more pleasant. May Allah help you in your efforts and may Allah give you the fiham of Islam so that you show the way to thers . Ameen

Can we discuss this on other thread.

[iabhortrinity]

I do!!!!



Scholars with best of knowledge about Quran and Sunnah and approved by scholars who possessed best of knowledge about quran and sunnah.



Because it is sunnah. Imam had reference for that.



It is as per quran and sunnah. Imam has reference for that.



It is because it is per quran and sunnah and imam had reference for that.



But we love Rasulullah SAS and acutally we do love Rasulullah SAS. That's why we follow the imam, he takes us near to Rasulullah SAS sunnah. I am an hanafi and still love imam shafaee, Imam ahamed bin hanbal and Imam maalik.



Imams didn't gave anything which was against the wish of Rasulullah SAS. Rather they tried their level best to keep it closer to quran and sunnah. The whole ummah has faith in that.



Imam knew the scriptures much much better than us. Thats why they are Imams. And scholars who gave approval were master in the study of scriptures.



I warn you, the group which was formed to remove the division is divided into 4 in a house, 40 in one masjid and four hundred in a state. That was warned much before, early in the first century itself. So get attached one madhab and be safe with your deen.

Alternatively, get the following books read them and make your own rulings:

Quran, its tafseer, hadeeth books, history books etc. But who will give approval.

There are already about 1.5 million rulings in hand, which you need not re-invent the wheel.

My Dear Brother Ahmad Sharif,

As per my understanding of Islam this is the only religion on the face of earth which do not make any presumption. Christianity makes, Judaism makes, Hinduism is full of presumption. But Islam demands proof a solid proof. God has demanded proof from Christians and Jews. Bring proof if you are truthful in your belief. God has used the word BURHAN for proof. In Arabic dictionary BURHAN is a light which is most near to SUN. Means a light which is strongest which has no darkness not a little bit. In religious matter BURHAN means WAHI the revelation. Wahi is word of God. Present day Bible is not Wahi any scripture of any religion is not WAHI at this time and age. The only preserved WAHI is QURAN and Saheeh Hadees. How Hadees is Wahi God himself says WAMA YANTAQAL ANAL HAWA. INNA HUWA LA WAHIUN AHWA. My Prophet what ever he says is WAHI from GOD.

Now brother what ever you have said in this post you have not given any reference These are all presumption and Islam does not believe in Presumption.

Scholars with best of knowledge about Quran and Sunnah and approved by scholars who possessed best of knowledge about quran and sunnah.



Because it is sunnah. Imam had reference for that.



It is as per quran and sunnah. Imam has reference for that.



It is because it is per quran and sunnah and imam had reference for that.

Where is the reference dear brother please bring yopur reference what ever you said here.

Regards

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


Because it is sunnah. Imam had reference for that.



It is as per quran and sunnah. Imam has reference for that.



It is because it is per quran and sunnah and imam had reference for that.

The reference was discussed and approved by masters in quran and sunnah in the best of times.

If you don't believe in the knowledge of those people who approved it, you are free to re-invent the wheel.

[iabhortrinity]

May Allah reward you for the your efforts towards understanding the truth. The basic issue is that HAQ is not the inheritance and property of a single person or a group and thats what Islam tells us. Submission to one God , an unconditional submission which is promised by Islam , makes a person Muslim irrespective of his color , creed or language. This is the beautiful generalization of Islam which is attracting people towards it. Unfortunately, as in the case of every "popularly sold item" , people make claims to HAQ and try to individualize Islam by the tactics of creating divisions in the name of FIQH , ie rulings in rituals and day to day affairs which are of secondary importance. They do it just to make themselves look distinct and it has no basis in Islam. Its an agreed upon by all matter that the differences of FIQH never take a person out of the fold of Islam but thanks to the " item sellers" , they make it look so.
Practically speaking , as you live in India , I would suggest you to visit any orthodox Deobandi Scholar and learn the basic theology from him. You can improve that as you learn more. It will make your journey in Islam more pleasant. May Allah help you in your efforts and may Allah give you the fiham of Islam so that you show the way to others . Ameen

Dear Brother Dr Ati,

Thanks for your reply. In fact I have met several Scholars from Deoband in Nizammuddin. But honestly speaking all of them gifted me Fazail E Amal and told me to read this book and all your queries will be answered inshahallah. I requested them to give me an english translation or in Malayalam. They did not have any copy. Then one brother whole night read urdu version and translated into english but candidly speaking brother I could not get Heads and Tails of the book. In stead I bought a copy of Quran by Yusuf Ali from Nizammuddin and read it. Earlier I had read in Malyalam. Ysuf Ali was very lucid to understand.

As regards Madhab I think you are HANBLI Can you refer me Books of Hanbli Madhab.

You are correct there are n o dobt black ships in every religion so are in Islam but I do not pay a heed to them. For them is there own way of life for me is mine.

Also I trequest you to correct me if I am wrong brother I know I am new to Islam I am bound to be overzealosu so please forgive me if I have made any mistake

Regards

[Maripat]

What other doubts are you facing apart from the choice between four Schools of Fiqh?

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum

Just read this post


Now Wallah tell me the truth. How did you get that information about the words I have put in bold letters.

My Dear Brother in Islam,

My journey to Islam is not sudden. It took 10 years to understand Islam and the guidence from GOD. I know each and every jargon of Islam, I know that Muslims celebrate EID MILADUN NABI, (CHRISTMAS)They are awake whole night of 15th SHABAN and sleep in LAST ASHRA OF RAMADAN (LAILATUL QADR), They celebrate MUHARRAM (RAMNAVMI), They celebrate BASANT in PAKISTAN thousands of examples not mentioned in Quran and Hadees but do and still to be called Muslim.

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum



The reference was discussed and approved by masters in quran and sunnah in the best of times.

If you don't believe in the knowledge of those people who approved it, you are free to re-invent the wheel.

Saint Paul also has the refrence from Bible to eat pork. What is the difference between Christianity and Islam Brother

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


Thanks for your reply. In fact I have met several Scholars from Deoband in Nizammuddin. But honestly speaking all of them gifted me Fazail E Amal and told me to read this book and all your queries will be answered inshahallah. I requested them to give me an english translation or in Malayalam. They did not have any copy. Then one brother whole night read urdu version and translated into english but candidly speaking brother I could not get Heads and Tails of the book.
In stead I bought a copy of Quran by Yusuf Ali from Nizammuddin and read it. Earlier I had read in Malyalam. Ysuf Ali was very lucid to understand.


Vow!!!!!!!!!


You bought an english copy of quran from Nizamuddin and you didn't get an english or a malyalam copy of Fazail-e-amal. Nice story.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


Saint Paul also has the refrence from Bible to eat pork. What is the difference between Christianity and Islam Brother

So you don't believe in reference of the Imams, so the best option is to re-invent the wheel.

By the way which is the most authentic book after Quran.

[Aspirer]

:salam:

There are a multitude of hadiths about Laylat al-Qadr.


Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever establishes the prayers on the night of Qadr out of sincere faith and hoping to attain Allah's rewards (not to show off) then all his past sins will be forgiven."

Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle said, "Search for the Night of Qadr in the odd nights of the last ten days of Ramadan."

Narrated Ibn Abu Habib: Abu Al-Khair said, "As-Sanabih, I asked (me), 'When did you migrate?' I (i.e. Abu Al-Khair) said, 'We went out from Yemen as emigrants and arrived at Al-Juhfa, and there came a rider whom I asked about the news. The rider said: We buried the Prophet five days ago." I asked (As-Sanabihi), 'Did you hear anything about the night of Qadr?' He replied, 'Bilal, the Mu'adhdhin of the Prophet informed me that it is on one of the seven nights of the last ten days (of Ramadan)."

More exist.

[xs11ax]

My Dear Brother in Islam,

My journey to Islam is not sudden. It took 10 years to understand Islam and the guidence from GOD. I know each and every jargon of Islam, I know that Muslims celebrate EID MILADUN NABI, (CHRISTMAS)They are awake whole night of 15th SHABAN and sleep in LAST ASHRA OF RAMADAN (LAILATUL QADR), They celebrate MUHARRAM (RAMNAVMI), They celebrate BASANT in PAKISTAN thousands of examples not mentioned in Quran and Hadees but do and still to be called Muslim.

Regards,

in these 10 years, can you tell me what you have learnt of the different madhabs and from who you have learnt from.

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaykum



So you don't believe in reference of the Imams, so the best option is to re-invent the wheel.

By the way which is the most authentic book after Quran.

Dear Brother,
I am neo Muslim and rather I deserve to ask this question that which is the authentic book after Quran. You are Muslim right from your birth I suppose you should better know that which is the second authentic book after Quran

[Maripat]

in these 10 years, can you tell me what you have learnt of the different madhabs and from who you have learnt from.

And the kind of help you expect from us.

[xs11ax]

And the kind of help you expect from us.

lets take it one step at a time. 10 years is a long time to be learning about islam and not finding out about the madhabs.

so what have you learnt about it and from whom have you learnt from.

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

There are a multitude of hadiths about Laylat al-Qadr.



More exist.

Dear Brother,

Please read my post carefully I said Muslims are awake on 15th SHABAN and sleep in LAILATUL QADRA. Which was ordained by GOD to be awake.
Regards,

[Aspirer]

Dear Brother,

Please read my post carefully I said Muslims are awake on 15th SHABAN and sleep in LAILATUL QADRA. Which was ordained by GOD to be awake.
Regards,

Indeed, my apologies.

I shall leave this to more qualified discussers. I hope that your questions, if posed well, can be rightly answered.

[iabhortrinity]

in these 10 years, can you tell me what you have learnt of the different madhabs and from who you have learnt from.

Dear XS11AX Brother,

How this is going to help you. Kindly teach me about your MADHAB.

Regards,

[ahamed_sharif]

Dear Brother,
I am neo Muslim and rather I deserve to ask this question that which is the authentic book after Quran. You are Muslim right from your birth I suppose you should better know that which is the second authentic book after Quran

I will reply to that later. Please discuss with xs11ax now

[Maripat]

May Allah make your journey easy for you.

Salaam.

[iabhortrinity]

Thank you dear for your pray.
May God bless you............

[xs11ax]

Dear XS11AX Brother,

How this is going to help you. Kindly teach me about your MADHAB.

Regards,


by your own admission you have studied islam for around 10 years. in those 10 years you must have learnt from many different sources and must have gained a considerable amount of knowledge. the topic of madhabs plays a major role in islam so in those 10 years you must have come across this issue mutiple times and as a consequence will have gained some insight into the topic.

by ascertaining how much you have learnt and from which sources, the members can then proceed to explain the topic to you in a way that will be more beneficial for you and not try to explain it in a simplistic approach which would normally have been taken for a person who knows absolutely nothing about islam.

[iabhortrinity]

by your own admission you have studied islam for around 10 years. in those 10 years you must have learnt from many different sources and must have gained a considerable amount of knowledge. the topic of madhabs plays a major role in islam so in those 10 years you must have come across this issue mutiple times and as a consequence will have gained some insight into the topic.

by ascertaining how much you have learnt and from which sources, the members can then proceed to explain the topic to you in a way that will be more beneficial for you and not try to explain it in a simplistic approach which would normally have been taken for a person who knows absolutely nothing about islam.

Dear Brother,

Thanks for your post............ I shall be thankful to you brother if you tell me your name who could be my would be mentor. As a matter of fact ten years back I developed a propensity to understand other religion. I thought if there are so many religion other than my own Roman Catholic Version of Christianity what are the other religion has to say on various subject. I started with my own religion first the creed of Protestant, Non Territorian, SDA Mission, Seventh Day Adventist, Lutherans, Anglicans, Evangelist and so on, Then Judaism, Hinduism, Budhism, Jainism and so on. Believe me none of them impressed me. They were all like christianity more or less. Honestly speaking I never thought of knowing Islam. It was unfair on my part let me accept. But then GOD wanted something for me. One day a Muslim friend of mine brought me Holy Koran I was thrilled to read the first chapter. Surah Fatiha with opening of BISMILLAH HIRRAHMAN NIR RAHEEM. IN The Name of GOD the most benificent and merciful I said vow what a presentation. When I reached Surah Fatiha the last line GHAIR IL MAGHDOOBE ALAIHIM WALAZZALEEN. I strated crying where was I for thirty years. The GOD of JESUS and MOSES is saying that Demand from ALLAH that Take me to Right Path the path of your self rightous slaves right from Adam to till date. and do not take me to the path on whom your anger was destined. Means JEWS and CHRISTIANS..................... What were their mistake JEWS knew that WHAT is TRUTH as KORAN SAYS They used to identify Prophet Mohammed in the same manner as a Father recognises his son. MY GOD see the simile we do not find any difficulty in recognising our sons even though he is among hundreds and thousands of people we can identify our own sons JEWS also knew that Prophet Mohammed was a true Prophet but what prevented them from accepting HIM was their EGO. Now Brother just stop for a moment. Every day we pray and recite Surah FATIHA and ASK GOD not to take us in the path of JEWS we pray but right after we finish SURAH FATHA we do not say AMEEN loudly Prophet Mohammed said that JEWS hate your saying of AMEEN Loudly. So we are making JEWS happy. We have not left any stone unturned in following their foot steps. They used to right KORAN SAYS book with their own hand and ascribe to GOD. We have also written millions of BOOKS and claims that this is from GOD. Fazail AAMAL is claimed to be the book in which all aspect of ISLAM have been encircled. I ask you Brother is FAZAIL E AMAAL a book of GOD is it WAHI. So...........................

Now what was the sin of Christians, Surah Fatiha mentions in the commentry that Christians were basically good people but did not know the truth neither they tried to seek truth.

That means we should neither be like JEWS nor be like Christians. If we know the truth accept it do not bring EGO in between neither just sit and hope that truth will be revealed. We need to strive to know the truth.

As regards your perplexity that how did not I know about MADHAB. In my journey to Islam it is only last year That I fully got convinced by Koran. I did encounter MADHAB version of ISLAM, but do not know much about MADHAB and FIQH.

Regards,

[meelash]

السلام عليكم,

Bro. iabhortrinity, may Allah reward you for your struggles in finding Islam and in assuring yourself of the right path.

The answers to your questions are simple, ان شاء الله,


Do I need to adhere to any particular Mazhab for my own salvation.

For your salvation, you need to have the correct belief, and you need to strive to submit yourself to the will of Allah by following to the best of your ability the way of life of Islam- which has been broadly described in the Qur'aan and vividly exemplified in the life and teachings of the final messenger :saw:.

The question which arises is that, not having seen the Prophet :saw:, how will you follow his way (sunnah) and achieve success in both this world and the next?

The answer is that his sunnah has been transmitted from his time to ours through many authenticated, verified chains of people with each generation teaching the next, testing their ability and then giving them permission to transmit to the next generation. It is your responsibility to find a link of these golden chains in our time and attach yourself firmly to it.

It is just a fact of history, an accident (if we believed in accidents, rather it is some secret wisdom of Allah), that whichever link you are able to find today, from one of these golden chains, if he/she is truly authenticated all the way back to the Prophet :saw: then they will definitely go through one of the four schools of the early imams, who were very early links in these chains. Whichever Imam that happens to be, by way of classification we say that you are in that Madhhab. You are not called that because that is a distinct religion from Islam, or because you prefer that imam over the Prophet :saw:, but just because it is convenient as human beings to classify things and give them names, and this happens to be a useful classification for various academic purposes. There is no more significance than that in the different madhaahib.

Regarding your second question:

My second question to you is how would I select any particular Mazhab.

The answer is, you find whichever link of those golden chains is most accessible to you and grab onto it. It's that simple. If you happen to have easy access to a scholar/scholars with authentic chains of narration to the Prophet :saw: and those chains happen to go through imaam Malik :rahim:, then that is no problem. If you happen to latch onto a solid link in a chain that goes through Imam Abu Hanifa :rahim:, than that is similarly fine. Any will do, as long as you make a sincere effort and struggle to find that chain going back to the Prophet :saw: and latch onto it with all your strength.


I hope this explanation will clear a lot of your confusion. Please post if you have any followup questions. بارك الله فيك

[abuhajira]

Dear Brother,

Please read my post carefully I said Muslims are awake on 15th SHABAN and sleep in LAILATUL QADRA. Which was ordained by GOD to be awake.
Regards,

:salam:

No brother, in Laylatul Qadr muslims are making I'tikaaf in masajid. They are engaged in 24 hours worship at that time.. since even the sleep of a mu'takif is ibadah.

However even aside from them mu'takifeen there are millions who stay up on Laylatul Qadr.

P.S to ALL the readers.. This section is for hanafi Q&A . If the questioner has a question then someone knowledgable of hanafi school will answer. Those who themselves do not adhere to hanafi school, should refrain. Those who have not studied properly, should also refrain. The only input you can do is to refer to a reliable hanafi scholar's view. This is not an argument /debate or discussion forum.

:ws:

[iabhortrinity]

السلام عليكم,

Bro. iabhortrinity, may Allah reward you for your struggles in finding Islam and in assuring yourself of the right path.

The answers to your questions are simple, ان شاء الله,



For your salvation, you need to have the correct belief, and you need to strive to submit yourself to the will of Allah by following to the best of your ability the way of life of Islam- which has been broadly described in the Qur'aan and vividly exemplified in the life and teachings of the final messenger :saw:.

The question which arises is that, not having seen the Prophet :saw:, how will you follow his way (sunnah) and achieve success in both this world and the next?

The answer is that his sunnah has been transmitted from his time to ours through many authenticated, verified chains of people with each generation teaching the next, testing their ability and then giving them permission to transmit to the next generation. It is your responsibility to find a link of these golden chains in our time and attach yourself firmly to it.

It is just a fact of history, an accident (if we believed in accidents, rather it is some secret wisdom of Allah), that whichever link you are able to find today, from one of these golden chains, if he/she is truly authenticated all the way back to the Prophet :saw: then they will definitely go through one of the four schools of the early imams, who were very early links in these chains. Whichever Imam that happens to be, by way of classification we say that you are in that Madhhab. You are not called that because that is a distinct religion from Islam, or because you prefer that imam over the Prophet :saw:, but just because it is convenient as human beings to classify things and give them names, and this happens to be a useful classification for various academic purposes. There is no more significance than that in the different madhaahib.

Regarding your second question:


The answer is, you find whichever link of those golden chains is most accessible to you and grab onto it. It's that simple. If you happen to have easy access to a scholar/scholars with authentic chains of narration to the Prophet :saw: and those chains happen to go through imaam Malik :rahim:, then that is no problem. If you happen to latch onto a solid link in a chain that goes through Imam Abu Hanifa :rahim:, than that is similarly fine. Any will do, as long as you make a sincere effort and struggle to find that chain going back to the Prophet :saw: and latch onto it with all your strength.


I hope this explanation will clear a lot of your confusion. Please post if you have any followup questions. بارك الله فيك

Dear Brother Meelash,

Thank you for your some what reasonable and convincing reply to my query "IS IT NECESSARY TO SELECT ONE PARTICULAR MAZHAB FOR NEO MUSLIM"

The reason why I have selected Islam as my religion is because of the fact that unlike other religions Islam is based on facts and figures. Other religion is based on assumption, presumption and hypothesis. I met the most intelectual followers of Christianity and I asked him how Father, Son and the Ghost will be one having three different identity. I demanded proof from them the proof from Bible. They failed to produce any facts and figures from Bible which support the creed of trinity. Which clearly suggest that Trinity is not the message from JESUS. It is the message of St. Paul-our Imam. On the other hand Koran message is very clear. DO NOT FOLLOW IF YOU DO NOT KNOW. That means Muslims have to follow which clearly supported by Koran and Prophetic sayings. In nutshel Muslims have to follow REVELATION i.e WAHI = Koran + Prophetic Sayings.

Brother if I am wrong please correct me. I have built my concept of ISLAM based on KORAN. KORAN has been preserved in toto from the time it was revealed to Prophet Mohammed till date. If one wants to clarify this doubt he can travel to the Museum of ISTANBUL where a copy of KORAN which USMAN was reading and killed by the SABAEES is kept as it is with the spots of blood. If I personally find any difference in that KORAN and KORAN of this day except AARAB I will renounce ISLAM.

As far as I know similarly all the Prophetic sayings, deeds and his recomendation have been preserved by Hadees Scholars. It was preserved the way you have mentioned in your post. This is the marvellous jobs done by the great scholars which has no example in the history of human kind. Right from Adam through Moses and Jesus you will not find this sort of work.

Now, my question to you is that when we have REVELATION preserved with perfection, what is the need of following IMAM and sticking to one particular MADHAB. What is the logic behind this I am still not able to comprehend.

If this has been ordained by GOD I will accept. If Prophet said to follow one particular IMAM I will accept. If not then .................

Why I need to go back to same philosophy of adhering to one school of thought (Roman Christian) which I did for the last thirty years, and now when I wanted to get rid of this neck band you guys want me to push me into same quagmire which if once I get into I will never be able to come out of the quagmire. If I try to come out your whole team will nearly kill me with their eyes with their tongue with their emails.....and so on so forth.............
Why the hell you want to kill me brother...........................Try to understand my problem dear Muslim Brothers and Sisters my friends.


Regards,

[Maripat]

Why I need to go back to same philosophy of adhering to one school of thought (Roman Christian) which I did for the last thirty years, and now when I wanted to get rid of this neck band you guys want me to push me into same quagmire which if once I get into I will never be able to come out of the quagmire. If I try to come out your whole team will nearly kill me with their eyes with their tongue with their emails.....and so on so forth.............
Why the hell you want to kill me brother...........................Try to understand my problem dear Muslim Brothers and Sisters my friends.


That is hear breaking brother. We are praying for you and leaving you in the company of a scholar.

[xs11ax]

so you accept quran and you accept hadith.

1. do you accept that some rulings from the quran were later superceded by others?
2. do you make a distinction between different hadith especially when there is an apparent contradiction between them?

[iabhortrinity]

Dear Moderater,

Please note that this thread is very important to me as my next course of action will fully depend on the healthy discussion in this thread and I request you to kindly refer me to some good scholars whom I can discuss things out.

Secondly this thread is linked with my mobile. In the afternoon I had received three more replies with certain links. But surprisingly now I dont find those replies. Please do not remove any of the replies unless it is unIslamic or unethical. Every reply from my brother/sister is important to me.

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

so you accept quran and you accept hadith.

1. do you accept that some rulings from the quran were later superceded by others?
2. do you make a distinction between different hadith especially when there is an apparent contradiction between them?

Dear Brother in Islam,

First you tell me your name brother. I can't address you as xs11ax..........

Regards,

[xs11ax]

Dear Brother in Islam,

First you tell me your name brother. I can't address you as xs11ax..........

Regards,

i am reluctant to give my name out on a public forum for various reasons.

you can address me as brother. please proceed.

[iabhortrinity]

i am reluctant to give my name out on a public forum for various reasons.

you can address me as brother. please proceed.

This causes suspicion in my mind.. Plus your quote in the foot note is very provocative and send shiver to me. Besides this is against the KORANIC verse LA IKRA FID DEEN. There is no compulsion in deen.. This is misinterpretation on your part looks like. Prophet never used power to subjugate non Muslims and never forced any non Muslim to accept Islam out of Force. Once he tried to do it for his uncle Abu Talib. The revelation came LA TAHDI MAN AHBABTA............ God prevented him from doing so........ No example of Khalifa using power on ZIMMI to accept Islam by force. Your quote is deterrent for Non Muslim who wants to accept Islam..

Anyway....

Yes I accept Quran and I accept Authentic Hadees with strong chain of narraters.

I accept that some rulings in KORAN were later superceded by other ruling till the death of Prophet. It was clearly indicated by Prophet during his life time.

I believe there is no contradiction in HADEETH it is our lack of knowledge that we contradict. Had there been contradiction in HADEES. Prophet had never said that I am leaving you on DEEN whose night is as bright as its Day. That means there is no confusion, no contradictions, no darkness.......... I believe that Islam brings human kind from darkness to light......... If it is itself contradictory it would have failed to bring man kind from Darkness to Light.

Regards,

[xs11ax]

This causes suspicion in my mind..

then there is something wrong with your mind regarding this aspect. i have taken part in many different forums over many years and you are the first to ask me my name. how would revealing my name make any difference to the dialogue at hand? in fact i should be the one to be suspicious of you for asking my name. but as you do not seen to harbour any qualms about reavealing ones name on a public forum then please can you tell me your name and also which country you are from. thank you.


Plus your quote in the foot note is very provocative and send shiver to me.

those that have Allah as a protector need not fear anything.


Besides this is against the KORANIC verse LA IKRA FID DEEN. There is no compulsion in deen.. This is misinterpretation on your part looks like. Prophet never used power to subjugate non Muslims and never forced any non Muslim to accept Islam out of Force. Once he tried to do it for his uncle Abu Talib. The revelation came LA TAHDI MAN AHBABTA............ God prevented him from doing so........ No example of Khalifa using power on ZIMMI to accept Islam by force. Your quote is deterrent for Non Muslim who wants to accept Islam..

i am sure that the companions of the Prophet :saw: who fought alongside him in battle, who sacrificed everything they had for Allah and who were persecuted and oppressed by the enemis of Allah for merely holding on to the deen of Allah understood my religion better than you.



Yes I accept Quran and I accept Authentic Hadees with strong chain of narraters.

I accept that some rulings in KORAN were later superceded by other ruling till the death of Prophet. It was clearly indicated by Prophet during his life time.

can you tell me how you decide which ayats of the quran were superceded by others and also how you determine a hadith is authentic or not.


I believe there is no contradiction in HADEETH it is our lack of knowledge that we contradict. Had there been contradiction in HADEES. Prophet had never said that I am leaving you on DEEN whose night is as bright as its Day. That means there is no confusion, no contradictions, no darkness.......... I believe that Islam brings human kind from darkness to light......... If it is itself contradictory it would have failed to bring man kind from Darkness to Light.



i said apparent contradiction. how do you reconcile between hadith that have apparent contradictions which are only explained under the scrutiny of a qualified scholar?

[Khali]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I was a christian from India but for last two years I read Koran very religiously and inclined towards its teaching especially about Jesus and Mary. Now I want to accept Islam but I am in fix brother. Do I need to adhere to any particular Mazhab for my own salvation. Please remember I am new to Islam so answer in lucid manner which I could understand easily.

Thanks

You go with the largest/closest sunni community to you of your erea. Layman does not know what a madhab is, and layman has no madhab. And layman doesn't have to botter what a madhab is. What your largest/closest sunni community to you is in terms of a madhab you will be of the same madhab. So only in secundary terms you will have that madhab. When you become a talib al-ilm you can be only a follower in primary terms of a madhab.

[iabhortrinity]

then there is something wrong with your mind regarding this aspect. i have taken part in many different forums over many years and you are the first to ask me my name. how would revealing my name make any difference to the dialogue at hand? in fact i should be the one to be suspicious of you for asking my name. but as you do not seen to harbour any qualms about reavealing ones name on a public forum then please can you tell me your name and also which country you are from. thank you.

My name is Joseph Panicker and I am from Kerala, India.

those that have Allah as a protector need not fear anything. But one should fear distorting the message of Islam. Even Prophet was not given the authority to change the rulings of Islam. Once on his wives request he made Honey Haram on him. The revelation came "You want to please GOD or your wives". If you are instrumental in distorting simple message of Islam and project this clean relegion as Extrimist Religion then dear Brother Lakum Dinakum Wale Yadeen.



i am sure that the companions of the Prophet :saw: who fought alongside him in battle, who sacrificed everything they had for Allah and who were persecuted and oppressed by the enemis of Allah for merely holding on to the deen of Allah understood my religion better than you. They fought to protect themselves and not to pull the people of other religion with chain in the neck and forced them to accept Islam This is bul****.




can you tell me how you decide which ayats of the quran were superceded by others and also how you determine a hadith is authentic or not.

Verses abrogating verses has been mentioned in book of Hadees. Moreover such VERSES are not even 0.1% of Total Ayat Six Thousand Six hundred and some. But why you are after these VERSES I believe you have some hidden agenda who leaves the clear cut VERSES of KORAN and remain after unnecessary things which do not benifit them. Think about your condition on the day of judgement if you are after suspicious things my dear brother. Stick to clear message of Koran......Authenticity of Hadees solely depends on ISNAAD.



i said apparent contradiction. how do you reconcile between hadith that have apparent contradictions which are only explained under the scrutiny of a qualified scholar?

Scholars of Hadees have already done this exercise.

[amr123]

Assalamu alaikum iabhortrinity,
I firstly congratulate you, since you chose the path of Allah, which is the right path. InshAlla(god willing) We will help you as much as we can. You can call me azhar :-) can i know your name?

[iabhortrinity]

Dear Brother,

I wrongly typed the answer with your quote. Kindly see my reply in your box of post.
Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu alaikum iabhortrinity,
I firstly congratulate you, since you chose the path of Allah, which is the right path. InshAlla(god willing) We will help you as much as we can. You can call me azhar :-) can i know your name?

Thank you Brother Azhar for your good wishes. My name is Joseph Panicker. I am from Kerala, India.

Regards,

[amr123]

Ok now to the topic, whats the question thats troubling you the most now. what have you understood from this thread so far? I ask you this so i can help you more.



Also, Do you have a muslim name?

[iabhortrinity]

Ok now to the topic, whats the question thats troubling you the most now. what have you understood from this thread so far? I ask you this so i can help you more.



Also, Do you have a muslim name?

Dear Brother Azhar,

My simple question which I pose was " Is it necessary to select one particular Mazhab for a neo Muslim. Brothers have tried to answer my question but I did not give any clear cut reply from them based on WAHI (KORAN + HADEES).

One brother even gone further and gave the example of Doctors who wants to operate and as a patient you have to keep quite and let him operate.

They are not able to understand my proble. I came from a background which was totally based on Assumtion, Presumptions and Hypothesis. I do not need answers on assumptions, presumptions and hypothesis I need answer from Koran or Prophetc saying. This is my problem brother.

You guys are so learned and not able to help me out.

There is another brother who has started a different ramkahani to convince me. He wants me to first identify the VERSES who are abrogated. I on the other hand want to imbibe teachings of Islam. Like prophet initially used to memorise the Koran in hurry he was so inquisitive about it then God said be patient. My Brothers in Islam are not trying to emphasise my condition now.

Regards,

[amr123]

Dear Brother Azhar,

My simple question which I pose was " Is it necessary to select one particular Mazhab for a neo Muslim. Brothers have tried to answer my question but I did not give any clear cut reply from them based on WAHI (KORAN + HADEES).

One brother even gone further and gave the example of Doctors who wants to operate and as a patient you have to keep quite and let him operate.

They are not able to understand my proble. I came from a background which was totally based on Assumtion, Presumptions and Hypothesis. I do not need answers on assumptions, presumptions and hypothesis I need answer from Koran or Prophetc saying. This is my problem brother.

You guys are so learned and not able to help me out.

There is another brother who has started a different ramkahani to convince me. He wants me to first identify the VERSES who are abrogated. I on the other hand want to imbibe teachings of Islam. Like prophet initially used to memorise the Koran in hurry he was so inquisitive about it then God said be patient. My Brothers in Islam are not trying to emphasise my condition now.

Regards,
:bism:

Ok I can understand your dilemma. Even though i was born and brought up as a Muslim, I too had asked the same questions. Why should one follow a Madhab? etc etc. Then after some queries and reading books about it, I got the convincing answer.

First I will give you a quick history How Quran and Hadith was passed on to us.

1st stage: The Prophet(saw) is alive and he is teaching the Quran directly to the Sahaba(companions). Whenever there is a doubt, the Sahaba(companions) ask the Prophet(saw) directly, so there is no issues. Also remember whatever the Prophet (saw) said is not his own opinion but Allah's commands which were revealed to him. Also when the Prophet (saw) was not near, the Sahaba did things according to the Quran, and the Traditions(hadees) of the Prophet(saw).

2nd stage: After the passing away of the Prophet(saw). When an issue arises the Sahaba looked for evidence in the Quran and the Traditions. Since the Sahaba had spend time directly with the Prophet (saw) and had immense knowledge, their reaction to a particular issue was considered right by default.

3rd stage: Sahaba have passed away. When people started having an issue,First Quran as always then anyone who has heard a hadith from the sahaba narates it and things are done by them.

4th stage: The age of Hadith collectors and the Madhab Imams.
The Hadith collectors start collecting Hadith inorder to verify their reliability and to avoid fabrication.

....Con't

[amr123]

Now about the Madhab Imams, the part which you are interested in. In their times even the layman had knowledge about many hadith they didnt know the whole picture like the sahaba. Here is where the Madhab Imams come into play. There are four Madhabs- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali. Let me enlighten you about the caliber of them. They knew more than 1 million hadith byheart and knew when each of the verses of the Quran was revealed etc etc. They were different from the hadith collectors. The Hadith Collectors were like the pharmacist, who knew the names of all medicines, and the Madhab Imams were like the physicians, they knew when and where to use the medicines. In majority of the issues the four Imams have the same opinion. What they differ is in minor issues and its the group opinion of All the other scholars that all four School of thought(madhab) are right and anyone can follow any of them and they will be in the right path. You should have in mind that in Islam there will be more than one way the Prophet did things, so the opinions of these Madhab Imams have very good backing of evidence from the Quran and Hadith already. So laymen like us dont have to study for years to find a solution for an issue for daily life. We just have to follow their instructions.

[حسان 30]

Dear Brother Azhar,

My simple question which I pose was " Is it necessary to select one particular Mazhab for a neo Muslim. Brothers have tried to answer my question but I did not give any clear cut reply from them based on WAHI (KORAN + HADEES).

One brother even gone further and gave the example of Doctors who wants to operate and as a patient you have to keep quite and let him operate.

They are not able to understand my proble. I came from a background which was totally based on Assumtion, Presumptions and Hypothesis. I do not need answers on assumptions, presumptions and hypothesis I need answer from Koran or Prophetc saying. This is my problem brother.

You guys are so learned and not able to help me out.

There is another brother who has started a different ramkahani to convince me. He wants me to first identify the VERSES who are abrogated. I on the other hand want to imbibe teachings of Islam. Like prophet initially used to memorise the Koran in hurry he was so inquisitive about it then God said be patient. My Brothers in Islam are not trying to emphasise my condition now.

Regards,


:ws:

No you don't need to follow a Madhab, but you do need to follow a scholar of high regard who is holding onto the Qur'an and Sunnah and way of the Sahaba, whether he follows a madhab or not is not important for you, what is important for you is that you do what Allah and His messenger have asked. This is what is apparent from the Qur'an and Sunnah, and anything else is just conjecture.

May Allah help you.

[xs11ax]

members have tried to answer your queries with patience and in a way that would be beneficial for you. however you have no appreciation for this and demand simple one line answers to a subject that needs to be explained rather than just told. if you approach this matter with humbleness and patience the way a student of deen should be then inshallah you will gain. if you presume to understand the deen better than the companions of the Prophet :saw: and those that learnt directly from the Sahaba (rd) then through your pride and haughtiness you surely are lost.

i leave you with this link. please take time to read and understand it. http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Articles/AR00000083.aspx

[farook]

Dear Brother Azhar,

My simple question which I pose was " Is it necessary to select one particular Mazhab for a neo Muslim. Brothers have tried to answer my question but I did not give any clear cut reply from them based on WAHI (KORAN + HADEES).

One brother even gone further and gave the example of Doctors who wants to operate and as a patient you have to keep quite and let him operate.

They are not able to understand my proble. I came from a background which was totally based on Assumtion, Presumptions and Hypothesis. I do not need answers on assumptions, presumptions and hypothesis I need answer from Koran or Prophetc saying. This is my problem brother.

You guys are so learned and not able to help me out.

There is another brother who has started a different ramkahani to convince me. He wants me to first identify the VERSES who are abrogated. I on the other hand want to imbibe teachings of Islam. Like prophet initially used to memorise the Koran in hurry he was so inquisitive about it then God said be patient. My Brothers in Islam are not trying to emphasise my condition now.

Regards,

My Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

I have gone through this thread in toto. I never ever say anything that may offend someone. Sometimes unfortunately it does happen through a slip of the tongue, but it is then totally unvoluntary. So, please note that I don't want to offend you in anyway whatsoever by my comments / observations hereunder.

Having read very carefully all your posts, I cannot help but come to the following conclusion:

Either you are a muslim BUT belong to the Ahlul Qur'an, as you have no problem at all with the Holy Qur'an but try to counter in a very intelligent and witty way, I must admit, and by all means whatever is not the Holy Qur'an DIRECTLY. The most striking example being your comparison of what muslims do during the 15th night of Shabaaan and during Laylatul Qadr. So, you attack the compilation of the hadiths in general and the Imams (in particular the Four Imams - the Founders of the four Schools of Thought, that led to the Four Madhabs) and the Scholars who came after up to this day. In brief, what you are saying is that one has to follow the Holy Qur'an only.

If above is a correct description of you, then, please, do not pick up on the Ahl-ul-Qur'an and continue posting along the lines as you have been doing till now. On the contrary, you may wish to start a new thread, present yourself as belonging to the Ahl-ul-Qur'an and discuss. You may wish to note that even if I apprehend you to be of the Ahl-ul-Qur'an, then to me you are still a muslim and I still address you as Brother. If you belong to the Ahl-ul-Qur'an you are in error and it is my duty, as well as for anyone else, to bring you to light.

OR that your first post was a sincere one and that you are really and honestly requesting for help to understand what seems to you to be not not very different from what you have in Christianity. In this case, I beg Allah(SWT) to forgive me for having misjudged you. And hope that , Insh'Allah, you will also forgive me, please.

My contribution to removing your sincere doubts, in very few words, would then be as follows:

I am a born muslim. As all muslim children, I attended a Islamic School, Madrassa, for about five years and together with what my parents taught me, picked up elementary knowledge of the Deen of Allah(SWT), including the recitation of the Holy Qur'an. I only became interested in religion, in general, at the age of 19 - and that was a long time back. The first question I asked myself was: "if there is only one God, how is it that we have so many religions?" It did not take me long to reach the answer that if there is only one God, then there can only be one religion, Islam (submission to His Will) from Adam to date. In time and space, Allah(SWT) sent His Messengers to guide His Creation. Consequently, Moses (Musa (AS)) and Jesus (Isa (AS)) were both muslims and both preached Islam.

However, since Man gets lost with time, religions got corrupted due to various factors, in particular, because of personal interests. And this is obvious enough if one studies Jewish and Christian history. The pattern changed with the advent of the Holy Messenger(SAW) due to Guidance from Allah(SWT) and love of the muslims for both Allah(SWT) the Holy Messenger(SAW). This love is not comparable, although you have said the contrary, to the love that christians, for example, have for God and Jesus. This is again obvious from history of christians and of muslims. It is LOVE for the Holy Messenger(SAW) and Guidance from Allah(SWT) that caused the Ummah to preserve and protect the Sunnah of the Holy Messenger(SAW). Allah(SWT) took care of the Holy Qur'an.

Once the Holy Messenger(SAW) left us, it was normal human beings like you and me, with all our defects, who made the necessary efforts to ensure that the Sunnah of the Holy Messenger(SAW) last for ever, and for both the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah to be understood to the best possible. Since we have defects, our products are not necessarily all wrong and need therefore to be discarded. Allah(SWT) Has Given us adequate wisdom to decide otherwise. It is not because in some countries one drives on the left and in others on the right that driving a car is wrong. What we need to know is that in one and the same country, one cannot drive on the right and another person drives on the left.

Sorry for having digressed a little bit. Let us go back to my journey. Having been to a hanafi masjid (not because I chose to be a hanafi but because my father took me to same), I continue to go to a hanafi masjid. Consequently, I have been practising according to the Hanafi Madhab. With time, I came to know that there were four madhabs, four imams who were the founders of same (so to speak), and today worse still, more schools of thought ...... Deobandi, Naqshbandi, Barelwi, ..... Sorry to complicate your life further.

Today I am still practising as per the Hanafi Madhab, although I have come to know about the contents of the other three. Just like I came to the conclusion about God and religions, it has not been very difficult for me (Alhamdulillah) to understand that the differences in the madhabs have to do more with rituals and a few beliefs rather than with Eemaan itself (Faith), and that madhabs do not decide whether one attains the Pleasure of Allah(SWT) or not. It is one's strong faith in Allah(SWT) that does the job. And when we say a Strong Faith, we mean a lot more than what one usually understand by faith. I belong to the Hanafi Madhab (through belonging rather than choice) and find no problem whatsoever praying with one brother on my right being a Maliki and the one on my left being a Shafi'i. We all, independently of the Madhab we were born into or adopted when one embraced Islam, have Faith in Allah(SWT) , Love for Allah(SWT) and His Holy Messenger(SAW), and strive to Please Allah(SWT) knowing full well that to HIM shall be our return.

We attain Pleasure of Allah(SWT) by living Islam, not by folding one's hands below or above the navel. So long as one prays with respect and humility towards Allah(SWT), one's prayer is VALID - valid means that Allah(SWT) Is Pleased with one's prayer. Prayer is a tool, not an end in itself. Living Islam is what one needs to achieve, and that is very difficult for the ordinary muslim. So, my dear brother, to cut a long story short, adopt the madhab of the muslim community close to you, and LIVE ISLAM.

If as you say, you have fallen in love with the Holy Qur'an, then LIVE ISLAM. And from the day you start living Islam, Allah(SWT) will, Ish'Allah, clear all your doubts. May Allah(SWT) Guide us all.

Once again, if I misunderstood your sincerity, please do forgive me.

Brotherly yours
farook

[iabhortrinity]

My Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

I have gone through this thread in toto. I never ever say anything that may offend someone. Sometimes unfortunately it does happen through a slip of the tongue, but it is then totally unvoluntary. So, please note that I don't want to offend you in anyway whatsoever by my comments / observations hereunder.

Having read very carefully all your posts, I cannot help but come to the following conclusion:

Either you are a muslim BUT belong to the Ahlul Qur'an, as you have no problem at all with the Holy Qur'an but try to counter in a very intelligent and witty way, I must admit, and by all means whatever is not the Holy Qur'an DIRECTLY. The most striking example being your comparison of what muslims do during the 15th night of Shabaaan and during Laylatul Qadr. So, you attack the compilation of the hadiths in general and the Imams (in particular the Four Imams - the Founders of the four Schools of Thought, that led to the Four Madhabs) and the Scholars who came after up to this day. In brief, what you are saying is that one has to follow the Holy Qur'an only.

If above is a correct description of you, then, please, do not pick up on the Ahl-ul-Qur'an and continue posting along the lines as you have been doing till now. On the contrary, you may wish to start a new thread, present yourself as belonging to the Ahl-ul-Qur'an and discuss. You may wish to note that even if I apprehend you to be of the Ahl-ul-Qur'an, then to me you are still a muslim and I still address you as Brother. If you belong to the Ahl-ul-Qur'an you are in error and it is my duty, as well as for anyone else, to bring you to light.

OR that your first post was a sincere one and that you are really and honestly requesting for help to understand what seems to you to be not not very different from what you have in Christianity. In this case, I beg Allah(SWT) to forgive me for having misjudged you. And hope that , Insh'Allah, you will also forgive me, please.

My contribution to removing your sincere doubts, in very few words, would then be as follows:

I am a born muslim. As all muslim children, I attended a Islamic School, Madrassa, for about five years and together with what my parents taught me, picked up elementary knowledge of the Deen of Allah(SWT), including the recitation of the Holy Qur'an. I only became interested in religion, in general, at the age of 19 - and that was a long time back. The first question I asked myself was: "if there is only one God, how is it that we have so many religions?" It did not take me long to reach the answer that if there is only one God, then there can only be one religion, Islam (submission to His Will) from Adam to date. In time and space, Allah(SWT) sent His Messengers to guide His Creation. Consequently, Moses (Musa (AS)) and Jesus (Isa (AS)) were both muslims and both preached Islam.

However, since Man gets lost with time, religions got corrupted due to various factors, in particular, because of personal interests. And this is obvious enough if one studies Jewish and Christian history. The pattern changed with the advent of the Holy Messenger(SAW) due to Guidance from Allah(SWT) and love of the muslims for both Allah(SWT) the Holy Messenger(SAW). This love is not comparable, although you have said the contrary, to the love that christians, for example, have for God and Jesus. This is again obvious from history of christians and of muslims. It is LOVE for the Holy Messenger(SAW) and Guidance from Allah(SWT) that caused the Ummah to preserve and protect the Sunnah of the Holy Messenger(SAW). Allah(SWT) took care of the Holy Qur'an.

Once the Holy Messenger(SAW) left us, it was normal human beings like you and me, with all our defects, who made the necessary efforts to ensure that the Sunnah of the Holy Messenger(SAW) last for ever, and for both the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah to be understood to the best possible. Since we have defects, our products are not necessarily all wrong and need therefore to be discarded. Allah(SWT) Has Given us adequate wisdom to decide otherwise. It is not because in some countries one drives on the left and in others on the right that driving a car is wrong. What we need to know is that in one and the same country, one cannot drive on the right and another person drives on the left.

Sorry for having digressed a little bit. Let us go back to my journey. Having been to a hanafi masjid (not because I chose to be a hanafi but because my father took me to same), I continue to go to a hanafi masjid. Consequently, I have been practising according to the Hanafi Madhab. With time, I came to know that there were four madhabs, four imams who were the founders of same (so to speak), and today worse still, more schools of thought ...... Deobandi, Naqshbandi, Barelwi, ..... Sorry to complicate your life further.

Today I am still practising as per the Hanafi Madhab, although I have come to know about the contents of the other three. Just like I came to the conclusion about God and religions, it has not been very difficult for me (Alhamdulillah) to understand that the differences in the madhabs have to do more with rituals and a few beliefs rather than with Eemaan itself (Faith), and that madhabs do not decide whether one attains the Pleasure of Allah(SWT) or not. It is one's strong faith in Allah(SWT) that does the job. And when we say a Strong Faith, we mean a lot more than what one usually understand by faith. I belong to the Hanafi Madhab (through belonging rather than choice) and find no problem whatsoever praying with one brother on my right being a Maliki and the one on my left being a Shafi'i. We all, independently of the Madhab we were born into or adopted when one embraced Islam, have Faith in Allah(SWT) , Love for Allah(SWT) and His Holy Messenger(SAW), and strive to Please Allah(SWT) knowing full well that to HIM shall be our return.

We attain Pleasure of Allah(SWT) by living Islam, not by folding one's hands below or above the navel. So long as one prays with respect and humility towards Allah(SWT), one's prayer is VALID - valid means that Allah(SWT) Is Pleased with one's prayer. Prayer is a tool, not an end in itself. Living Islam is what one needs to achieve, and that is very difficult for the ordinary muslim. So, my dear brother, to cut a long story short, adopt the madhab of the muslim community close to you, and LIVE ISLAM.

If as you say, you have fallen in love with the Holy Qur'an, then LIVE ISLAM. And from the day you start living Islam, Allah(SWT) will, Ish'Allah, clear all your doubts. May Allah(SWT) Guide us all.

Once again, if I misunderstood your sincerity, please do forgive me.

Brotherly yours
farook

Dear Br. Farook,

I appreciate your good intention of helping me. But let me tell you honestly that each and every post from you brothers making my life even more difficult and complicated. Please understand I lived with stories for nearly thirty years without asking question and demanding proof from our priest. Now that I want to live with solids BURHAN (Proof) from Koran and Prophetic saying you guys who are stallwart not able to present before me a single verse in support of following one particular Madhab or Imam.
Your method is simple you say in the beginning that I will help you then start narrating stories. Brothers I hate stories. I had enough of stories. These sories never helped me to attain salvation. Now when I want to get rid of stories you take me back to same world of Nancy & Drew.

Enough brother for last two days I have been demanding clear cut verse or prophetic saying which esposes following any particular Madhab/Imam to get salvation. No reply from any one of you.

Should I close this thread or wait for some more times you tell me.

I am a considerably educated person having PhD in Mamgement from XLRI, I am the guest speaker in XLRI. I teach Management to the students of XLRI. I work for a company called GE a USA based company having 186 Bn turn over. I am a water expert in this company. Based on my intellect, experience and knowledge the compnay has hired me. I am well placed as far as my world is considered. But my intelligence level in Islam is zero. I want to gain some knowledge from you stalwart.

Please educate me on the basis of WAHI = KORAn + Prophetic saying. And from the stories.

Now in the beginning you said I am a Muslim and belong to AHLUL KORAN. I am a neo Muslim I do not know anything about who are AHLUL KORAN. Please throw some light. I want to be a good rightous Muslim please do not drag me to any Group.

[NeednoName]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

I think it's high time now that the likes of Maulana Abu Hajira & Colonel Uncle should chip in and handle the queries of Brother Joseph in a more academic way.

In the mean time, I would advise Br. Joseph to go through the links provided by Brother Nomadic or read the following books for a better understanding on the concept of following Madhab:

Fiqh of Following a Madhab (http://www.box.net/shared/a9o265oahp)

Legal Status of Following a Madhab (http://www.box.net/shared/6kjjckbzov)

[Maripat]

Both impressed and pleased with your educational qualifications. Masha Allah. May Allah grant you firmness on deen and guide you closer and closer to the right path.


Please educate me on the basis of WAHI = KORAn + Prophetic saying. And from the stories.

Beloved Prophet (PBUH) said at the occasion of last Friday Sermon that those present should take Islam to those who are not here and they to those who are present their.

Islam has reached you through four channels. It does not propagate in vacuum. Even wahi was brought by Hazrat Gibreel (AS). Beloved Prophet (PBUH) loved Hazrat Gibreel (AS). Companions (RA) loved beloved Prophet (PBUH). What is holding you back brother from loving all four Imams and following one. None of them asked you to follow his whims. (May Lord Most High forgive me for saying such things.)

The edifice of religion is founded on love and reverence of pious predecessors. I hope you shall put your formidable managerial skills to manage your personal spiritual empire.

I wish Mufti Abu Hajirah was around before you close this thread. Personally the latter act will left a pain in my heart.

[Maripat]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

I think it's high time now that the likes of Maulana Abu Hajira & Colonel Uncle should chip in and handle the queries of Brother Joseph in a more academic way.

In the mean time, I would advise Br. Joseph to go through the links provided by Brother Nomadic or read the following book for a better understanding of the concept of following Madhab:

http://www.box.net/shared/a9o265oahp

Saw your post after submitting my response.:)

[amr123]

I think you did not see my post earlier, I will give you a small briefing of the history of Madhabs. Please read carefully.


:bism:

Ok I can understand your dilemma. Even though i was born and brought up as a Muslim, I too had asked the same questions. Why should one follow a Madhab? etc etc. Then after some queries and reading books about it, I got the convincing answer.

First I will give you a quick history How Quran and Hadith was passed on to us.

1st stage: The Prophet(saw) is alive and he is teaching the Quran directly to the Sahaba(companions). Whenever there is a doubt, the Sahaba(companions) ask the Prophet(saw) directly, so there is no issues. Also remember whatever the Prophet (saw) said is not his own opinion but Allah's commands which were revealed to him. Also when the Prophet (saw) was not near, the Sahaba did things according to the Quran, and the Traditions(hadees) of the Prophet(saw).

2nd stage: After the passing away of the Prophet(saw). When an issue arises the Sahaba looked for evidence in the Quran and the Traditions. Since the Sahaba had spend time directly with the Prophet (saw) and had immense knowledge, their reaction to a particular issue was considered right by default.

3rd stage: Sahaba have passed away. When people started having an issue,First Quran as always then anyone who has heard a hadith from the sahaba narates it and things are done by them.

4th stage: The age of Hadith collectors and the Madhab Imams.
The Hadith collectors start collecting Hadith inorder to verify their reliability and to avoid fabrication.

Now about the Madhab Imams, the part which you are interested in. In their times even the layman had knowledge about many hadith they didnt know the whole picture like the sahaba. Here is where the Madhab Imams come into play. There are four Madhabs- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali. Let me enlighten you about the caliber of them. They knew more than 1 million hadith byheart and knew when each of the verses of the Quran was revealed etc etc. They were different from the hadith collectors. The Hadith Collectors were like the pharmacist, who knew the names of all medicines, and the Madhab Imams were like the physicians, they knew when and where to use the medicines. In majority of the issues the four Imams have the same opinion. What they differ is in minor issues and its the group opinion of All the other scholars that all four School of thought(madhab) are right and anyone can follow any of them and they will be in the right path. You should have in mind that in Islam there will be more than one way the Prophet did things, so the opinions of these Madhab Imams have very good backing of evidence from the Quran and Hadith already. So laymen like us dont have to study for years to find a solution for an issue for daily life. We just have to follow their instructions.


So you can see, Madhabs does not have any additions from what the Prophet :saw: taught us. They are just different 'permitted' ways of Life from the Quran and Hadith itself. There is not even a single issue in the Madhab which does not have evidence from Quran and Hadith.


Now for proof on following the scholars, I will mention them one by one:
Here are few from the islam online:


Status of Scholars in Islam

Scholars are the safety valve of the Ummah. They can save people from destruction and can revive the Ummah, if Allah so wills. Moreover, only scholars can clearly reveal the truth and interpret any obscurities.


In fact, Almighty Allah has held scholars in a position that is vehemently aspired for by all Muslims. He says,

Allah will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge(the scholars) , in high degrees,
and Allah is Aware of what you do. (Al-Mujadilah 58:11)

Similarly, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) considered scholars and knowledgeable people to be of a status higher than that of sincere worshippers. He stated that everything in this world, even the fish in the sea, asks for forgiveness for the true scholar. The Prophet is reported to have said,

"The superiority of a scholar over a devoted worshipper is like my superiority over the lowest in rank of you." then he (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Verily, Allah, His angels, the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth, and even the ant in its hole and the fish in the sea pray for those who teach people good [beneficial knowledge]." (authenticated by Al-Albani)

Because of this high position of scholars in the sight of Allah and His Messenger, Muslims always resort to them in distress, seeking guidance and safety in their advice.

[NeednoName]

I think you did not see my post earlier, I will give you a small briefing of the history of Madhabs. Please read carefully.



So you can see, Madhabs does not have any additions from what the Prophet :saw: taught us. They are just different 'permitted' ways of Life from the Quran and Hadith itself. There is not even a single issue in the Madhab which does not have evidence from Quran and Hadith.

Assalaam'aaleykum!

Please, don't give him any kind of briefing. Let him first read and understand the work of sholars on the same topic. Should he find any confusion or doubt in their explanation, let him bring that on board for the sake of seeking clarification. I think, that is when your (and others) briefing would be beneficial to him.

[NeednoName]

Saw your post after submitting my response.:)

Assalaam'aaleykum!

That shouldn't be a problem, bhai. :)

[Abu_Tamim]

Please educate me on the basis of WAHI = KORAn + Prophetic saying. And from the stories.

:salam:
Please go to this link: http://www.islamibayanaat.com/EnglishLiterature.htm
Scroll down to the following book by one of the leading scholars today: "Legal Status Of Following A Madhab". Download the book and read it. Your queries will be answered, :insh:.

[farook]

Dear Br. Farook,

I appreciate your good intention of helping me. But let me tell you honestly that each and every post from you brothers making my life even more difficult and complicated. Please understand I lived with stories for nearly thirty years without asking question and demanding proof from our priest. Now that I want to live with solids BURHAN (Proof) from Koran and Prophetic saying you guys who are stallwart not able to present before me a single verse in support of following one particular Madhab or Imam.
Your method is simple you say in the beginning that I will help you then start narrating stories. Brothers I hate stories. I had enough of stories. These sories never helped me to attain salvation. Now when I want to get rid of stories you take me back to same world of Nancy & Drew.

Enough brother for last two days I have been demanding clear cut verse or prophetic saying which esposes following any particular Madhab/Imam to get salvation. No reply from any one of you.

Should I close this thread or wait for some more times you tell me.

I am a considerably educated person having PhD in Mamgement from XLRI, I am the guest speaker in XLRI. I teach Management to the students of XLRI. I work for a company called GE a USA based company having 186 Bn turn over. I am a water expert in this company. Based on my intellect, experience and knowledge the compnay has hired me. I am well placed as far as my world is considered. But my intelligence level in Islam is zero. I want to gain some knowledge from you stalwart.

Please educate me on the basis of WAHI = KORAn + Prophetic saying. And from the stories.

Now in the beginning you said I am a Muslim and belong to AHLUL KORAN. I am a neo Muslim I do not know anything about who are AHLUL KORAN. Please throw some light. I want to be a good rightous Muslim please do not drag me to any Group.

My dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

Jazakallah for having confirmed your sincere request for assistance. On my side, I do sincerely apologize for having doubted your sincerity & honesty.

Given your academic qualifications, you have, no doubt,a good enough IQ, but that IQ is independent of the field that you wish to study. The IQ is there, but studying, meditating, and understanding religion , contrary to the physical world, requires wisdom which, unfortunately, is not necessarily comprised in IQ. But as I said your IQ is there to help you understand to some extent the abstract, and with God's Guidance MORE and MORE.

Coming to your reply, first of all, I should like to say that I did not relate to you any stories. I told you in a few words that one has to live Islam to understand Islam. It is not through Madhabs that one understands Islam. Madhab pertains to the physical; the Deen is a priori spiritual, abstract for the layman. A Madhab tries to perfect the physical, the Madhab prepares the way to the spiritual.

I believe our brothers have provided ample links that you could certainly go to and study what has been said regarding Madhabs already. Why not study these in the first place and come back with additional questions/ requests for clarifications, if any?

You are right when you say that there is no clear verse in the Holy Qur'an that refers to Madhabs and Imams. Well, not literally and directly. But there is one verse where Allah(SWT) invites us to consult those who know. May be the next question you should be asking yourself is: "In the absence of Imams and other Scholars in their time and after, who would one have gone to / go to to have answers to one's queries? For example, I wish to know that having done a particular action whether my wudhu is still valid or not. The hadiths and less still the Holy Qur'an do not give detailed answers to all issues. Such answers have been provided by the Imams / Scholars - to the best of their ability - as the issues were raised and / or when circumstances arose that prompted questions and for which direct answers were not available from the Hadiths. These answers together with those already available from the Holy Qur'an and the hadiths have been compiled by the different Imams, and are today known as Madhabs. This is how I would explain the Madhabs in simple terms. No doubt each Madhab is based on the understanding of each of the Imams, and since we, humans, are limited in our understanding - to various degrees - it is obvious that the Madhabs would and do contain differences.

If I have understood your queries correctly, you wish to know why, given that the Holy Qur'an does not mention Imams & Madhabs in such terms, one has to follow a Madhab. A Madhab is simply a code of conduct. It is a guide that enables you to live the Deen in a way acceptable to Allah(SWT). Each of the four Madhabs are not necessarily 100% correct. But is it not better / wiser to have to choose among four madhabs than to have as many madhabs as there are muslims. Here, the issue is one of wisdom.

At the end of the day, it suffices to express our sincere thanks to all those Imams and Scholars who have sacrificed their time, energy - in fact their whole life - to keep the religion alive; like it was 1400 years ago. You can certainly imagine the situation today, if these Imams & Scholars had said: "Why do we need to bother about a Madhab since the Holy Qur'an does not mention it?"

My dear Brother, intelligence, logic and reasoning alone do not provide us with all answers - in particular when it comes to the abstract / spiritual world. One needs wisdom and certainly Guidance from Allah(SWT). This is why I said LIVE ISLAM and you will get most, if not all, yours answers. Insh'Allah.

Again do go to the links provided by other brothers on this thread. Insh'Allah, these may help you.

May your Faith that you have built up to date guide you. Insh'Allah

Brotherly yours
farook

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Who is he????????


I was a christian from India but for last two years I read Koran very religiously and inclined towards its teaching especially about Jesus and Mary

I am new to Islam

Brothers and Sisters please keep in mind that I am a neo Muslim so reply with simple languages

That is the reason I accepted Islam now this Madhab is deterrent in accepting Islam.

Your post are making me feel encouraged to go back to my old religion and thank you for being instrumental dear brothers and sisters in Islam

The Sr. Doctor in this case is our Prophet. Imam is junior doctor so difinitely you will ask ypu Imam whether his saying is asper senior doctor or not.

I resigned from the job, I put my family at stake, I even starved dear brother but all my effort were in vain. I would have gone back to Christianity long time ago Had not I read Quran with understanding,

His experience in Nizamuddin

Then one brother whole night read urdu version and translated into english but candidly speaking brother I could not get Heads and Tails of the book. In stead I bought a copy of Quran by Yusuf Ali from Nizammuddin and read it. Earlier I had read in Malyalam. Ysuf Ali was very lucid to understand. (He demanded a english copy of fazail amal and he didn't get a English translation of Fazail amal in Nizamuddin)

Also I trequest you to correct me if I am wrong brother I know I am new to Islam I am bound to be overzealosu so please forgive me if I have made any mistake

Every day we pray and recite Surah FATIHA and ASK GOD not to take us in the path of JEWS we pray but right after we finish SURAH FATHA we do not say AMEEN loudly Prophet Mohammed said that JEWS hate your saying of AMEEN Loudly. So we are making JEWS happy.

I ask you Brother is FAZAIL E AMAAL a book of GOD is it WAHI. So...........................

In my journey to Islam it is only last year That I fully got convinced by Koran. I did encounter MADHAB version of ISLAM, but do not know much about MADHAB and FIQH.

My name is Joseph Panicker. I am from Kerala, India

Also, Do you have a muslim name? (no reply)

I resigned from the job, I put my family at stake, I even starved dear brother

I am a considerably educated person having PhD in Mamgement from XLRI, I am the guest speaker in XLRI. I teach Management to the students of XLRI. I work for a company called GE a USA based company having 186 Bn turn over. I am a water expert in this company. Based on my intellect, experience and knowledge the compnay has hired me. I am well placed as far as my world is considered

Laanatullahi alal kaazibeen
Laanatullahi alal munaafiqeeen.

[ashkar]

Assalamu alaikum,

I have gone through the entire thread and its been an interesting read, without any presumptions.. i would like to welcome brother Joseph to the Muslim Ummah, May Allah Guide you through the right path.
Dear brother, Iam from Kerala too. Iam currently involved in a new project in Malayalam which hope to help with questions of people like you.
I would be delighted to help you if I could, I wish I knew you.
I do not myself currently follow any Madhab (iam not a Salafi or a Madhabi, nor am I any Qurani) i do not ascribe to any particular sect or group. I dislike branding myself, so iam just a Muslim who is still striving to be a better one.. but i see with respect people who follow madhab, basically, its like following an Imam, a leader who can guide you. The four madhabs do not differ on matters of beliefs, they mostly differ on some details which wouldnt take you out of the fold of islam.

There are acceptable difference of opinion in islam.

Have a look at this hadith:


One of the evidence for this acceptable disagreement in Islam comes from a Hadith reported by Imams Bukhari and Muslim, in which Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) ordered his companions after the battle of Al-Ahzaab saying, “No one of you should pray Asr until you reach the village of Bani-Qurayzah (A Jewish tribe) .” While they were on their way, the time of Asr came. Some companions said we should not pray until we reach Bani-Qurayzah. Others said we should pray Asr now because the Prophet (S.A.W.) did not mean for us to leave the Asr prayer, but he wanted us to be in a hurry. So some of the companions prayed Asr , while others continued on until they reached Bani-Qurayzah after sunset. When they went back to the Prophet, they mentioned to him the story and he did not blame either one of them." This Hadith clearly shows us that the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) accepted both opinions, because if one of them were wrong then the Prophet would have expressed it at that time.

Now.. as someone who is new to Islam, i would advice you to follow someone who is knowledgeable enough in your locality and build your foundation strong on Islam, when you gain basic grounds of knowledge in islam you can study more about madhabs. It would make things easy for you.

Following a madhab is similar to following an Imam. Not following a single Imam of the madhab would NOT take you out of the fold of islam. But its best (i would say, extremely recommended) for you as a new Muslim to build your foundation under a knowledgeable imam. You can then learn about the minor details, learn about the Imams, madhabs and all that. Do not over burden yourself, take everything step by step with the best of your intentions and Allah would guide you on the right path.

The basis of a Muslim is that he testifies that there is no God but Allah and Prophet Muhammed (saw) is the last and final messenger of Allah, following a madhab has not been made mandatory on a Muslim by the prophet or by the scriptures, but it DOES make things easy for the layman. The key is that you do not go to either extremes.

To say again, the Madhabs do NOT differ on matters of beliefs, they all share the same core beliefs which is key to one's salvation. Its on the minor details that they differ.. and that too, they differ with respect.

and I would HIGHLY recommend that you go through http://www.youtube.com/user/khalifahklothing channel, it has wealth of information which can guide you on the basics Insha Allah !

You can also see this channel http://www.youtube.com/user/hanafifiqh which could give you some insight on Hanafi school of thought.
(This is by no means any kind of official channel for hanafi school, but it could help you understand their view point)

btw, out of curiosity, were you born in a christian family ? or were they converted to Christianity ? because Joseph panicker is like a mixed name, Joseph being a christian one and Panicker being a hindu one, i could be wrong though.. was just trying to understand better.


If I have said anything wrong then know that it is either from the Shaitan or me and if I have said anything good, then know that it is from Allah

May Allah Guide Us All in the right path..

[meelash]

Dear Brother Meelash,

Thank you for your some what reasonable and convincing reply to my query "IS IT NECESSARY TO SELECT ONE PARTICULAR MAZHAB FOR NEO MUSLIM"

The reason why I have selected Islam as my religion is because of the fact that unlike other religions Islam is based on facts and figures. Other religion is based on assumption, presumption and hypothesis. I met the most intelectual followers of Christianity and I asked him how Father, Son and the Ghost will be one having three different identity. I demanded proof from them the proof from Bible. They failed to produce any facts and figures from Bible which support the creed of trinity. Which clearly suggest that Trinity is not the message from JESUS. It is the message of St. Paul-our Imam. On the other hand Koran message is very clear. DO NOT FOLLOW IF YOU DO NOT KNOW. That means Muslims have to follow which clearly supported by Koran and Prophetic sayings. In nutshel Muslims have to follow REVELATION i.e WAHI = Koran + Prophetic Sayings.

Brother if I am wrong please correct me.

I think you are, in fact, making a subtle error here that is leading to your confusion. Can you explain what you mean by "Prophetic sayings"? Do you mean the books of hadith, like Sahih Bukhari, etc.

[iabhortrinity]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

Thank you very much for your sincere effort you have made to convince me that one has to follow a particular Madhab/Imam.

Now there is no point dragging the discussion further as no member has till now provided me the clear cut solid proof from Koran and Prophetic saying in support of such a serious matter of following one particular Madhab/Imam.............

I would now like to conclude the discussion with following notes.

1. There is no verse in Koran which support following one particual Madhab/Imam.
2. There is no prophetic saying in support of above.
3. In lack of evidence if any Muslim still wants to follow one particular Imam/Madhab, the act will be null and void. As GOD himself says Do not follow if you do not know.
4. Following Madhab is invalid and yet some muslim want to act upon is an example of "TRANSGRESSION"
5. Transgression is drifting away from the law of GOD
6. Christians are the victim of transgression so are Jews
7. Due to this transgression the original teaching of prophets get corrupted. We have two live examples in Judaism and Christianity
8.These two revealed religions have been corrupted so much so that that if some follower of these religion wants to make some reform or bring back to the original teaching of respective prophet they will fail miserably.
9. Unlike Islam if GOD forbids get corrupted will be brought back to its original shape without any difficulty as the GOD himself takes the pledge that We have revealed this ZIKR and we are the protector. Here GOD has used the word ZIKR and not Koran which means the SHARIA in entirety.

Now let me understand and conclude from the various post my brothers have sent me..

Some brothers tried to quote some HADEES which are totally out of context and do not support following Imam being valid.
Some brothers have sent me the link to download the books which honestly speaking I have still not done in want of time. But I assure you brother that I will do it and read the book. However, I am sure the book might not have supporting verse for following Imam otherwise those brothers who have read the book must have quoted the same.
Following points I have noted from the various posts.
1. A lay man who does not posses Islamic knowledge must follow one particular Imam for ease. However, there is no reference that an AMMI has to follow a particular Imam. He can ask any Islamic Scholar which he finds around and ask the problem. The scholar in turn will reply from Quran and Hadees.
2. Madhab is formed due to new complication arising in Islam and lack of evidence from Koran and Prophetic saying e.g if some body does not know that in particular situation if his wudu is valid or not and there is no evidence from Koran or Hadees Imam will infer and here the Madhab comes into play. That means Koran and Hadees are deficient in handling new and complicated situation if this is the case we need a new prophet to compensate the deficiency through WAHI rather than Imam cracking head. But since advent of new prophet is out of question as Koran clearly mentions that Prophet is Khatimun Nabi, we have no option but to believe that Koran and Hadees together is perfect and has answer to all the problems. This is also backed by the verse " ALYOUM AKMALTO LAKUM DI NAKUM.......................

Then you said that all the four Imams are correct in their inference and if there is some difference it is minor in nature. I think this is also not correct. Had there been minor difference the follower of each of their Imam would not have made four separate MUSALLA right in the house of GOD i.e. KABAA. That suggest that difference were major among them self that no one wanted to pray behind other Imam.

Now my question is why there are only four Imams why not Five or six or less than four what is the wisdom behind this. Any answer brother.

Secondly if all the four are true then how come two different things which are opposite to each other will be true at the same time. For instance Imam SHAFI said to repeat the wudu if one touches his wife. HANFI said no need. If SHAFI is correct the HANFEES NEMAZ will be invalid because there is no nemaz without wudu, if HANFI is correct then SHAFI is a transgressor. How both will be correct at the same time. This is confusing. FATHER, SON nad THE GHOST three different identity but one. How it is possible for christians to believe.

Thirdly, sticking to particular madhab opens up the door for rejection of hadees. Because follower thinks that his Imam is correct if any hadees is shown to him which is contrary to his belief pattern. This is a very dangerous situation...........
If my any of brothers want to reply or give some more input he is welcome I do not have any hard feelings with any one of you. I seriously want my brother to ponder upon these queries I have.

Regards,

[meelash]

السلام عليكم,

Your latest post makes it seem that you are here for a debate, rather than actually confused and trying to learn. Unfortunately, this style of writing will provoke a lot of argumentation that seems to be making it difficult for you to clear your confusion.

Anyway, can I ask that you please respond to the question in post 92 http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?71104-Is-it-necessary-to-select-one-particular-Mazhab-for-neo-Muslimn&p=597697&viewfull=1#post597697


I think you are, in fact, making a subtle error here that is leading to your confusion. Can you explain what you mean by "Prophetic sayings"? Do you mean the books of hadith, like Sahih Bukhari, etc?

In case you need to reference, the original posts were 58 (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?71104-Is-it-necessary-to-select-one-particular-Mazhab-for-neo-Muslimn&p=597149&viewfull=1#post597149) and 60 (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=597386#post597386).


The three questions you asked in your latest post can be answered very easily once you have understood the root of the issue.

[amr123]

Some brothers have sent me the link to download the books which honestly speaking I have still not done in want of time. But I assure you brother that I will do it and read the book. However, I am sure the book might not have supporting verse for following Imam otherwise those brothers who have read the book must have quoted the same.

:salam:
Brother this Attitude is dangerous. Don't make up your mind before you seek the truth. We have to be humble and intellectual humility is something that will save us from going in the wrong path. :-)

Just because you don't like some fact, does not mean that its not true. Remember all these 'logic' explanations that we try to derive ourselves, will be easily influence by Shaytans whispers and due to lack of knowledge we might even think we are right. So follow what Allah says in the Quran: "So ask the People of Knowledge if you do not know" (Qur'an:21:7) You might say then why dont ask any scholar. Yes you can ask any of the scholars. But who taught them? their teacher taught them. But who taught their teacher? their teachers..... and so one it will reach the Imams of the Madhab, Who taught the Imams of Madhab, they got it from the Sahaba(companions of the prophet) and the Tabeen(companions of companions). Where did they get there knowledge? From Prophet :saw:. Which is All from Allah the almighty.

So listen to Allah's command, since we dont know, follow the People of knowledge. Ask for knowledge of one of the Imams of a mosque near you. Be sincere while seeking knowledge.

[amr123]

:salam:
Off topic
I d like to give you a small advice. I also used to think I am an achiever in this world i have a good career etc. You mentioned your credentials and career and mentioned you were 'well placed' in your world. Let me tell you something this world is temporary, we working in a MNC won't matter in the Day of Resurrection. In that day it will be the beggar in the road who had a greater Imaan(faith) in Allah, who will be in a higher status than us professionals. Besides these worldly achievements are not ours to claim. If it had not been the Mercy of Allah, nothing will work for us, we won't even exist. Be humble bro :-)

But those who believe and work righteousness, and humble themselves before their Lord,- They will be companions of the gardens, to dwell therein for aye!
(The Holy Quran, 11:23)

[Maripat]

Now there is no point dragging the discussion further as no member has till now provided me the clear cut solid proof from Koran and Prophetic saying in support of such a serious matter of following one particular Madhab/Imam.............


It has been, repeatedly. You ignored it every time unashamedly. If brothers were using non-technical language it was because of consideration for a neo Muslim. In particular it does not mean that they were giving vent to their personal whims or desires.

I would now like to conclude the discussion with following notes.

1. There is no verse in Koran which support following one particual Madhab/Imam.

La-ilaha ilallah, Muhammadur Rasoolallah too does not occur as a phrase in the Holy Qur'an

2. There is no prophetic saying in support of above.

I quoted one from last Friday Sermon of beloved Prophet (PBUH). You blisfully ignored that.

3. In lack of evidence if any Muslim still wants to follow one particular Imam/Madhab, the act will be null and void.

Calumny, decisions of Islam are not made in XLRI.

As GOD himself says Do not follow if you do not know.


Lie. God said O people ask the knowledgeable people if you do not know. The injunction is to follow them.

4. Following Madhab is invalid and yet some muslim want to act upon is an example of "TRANSGRESSION".

Lie. You do not know the weight of what you are saying.

5. Transgression is drifting away from the law of GOD.
True. You still have not drifted towards God.

6. Christians are the victim of transgression so are Jews.
7. Due to this transgression the original teaching of prophets get corrupted. We have two live examples in Judaism and Christianity
8.These two revealed religions have been corrupted so much so that that if some follower of these religion wants to make some reform or bring back to the original teaching of respective prophet they will fail miserably.

Did not need you for this.

9. Unlike Islam if GOD forbids get corrupted will be brought back to its original shape without any difficulty as the GOD himself takes the pledge that We have revealed this ZIKR and we are the protector. Here GOD has used the word ZIKR and not Koran which means the SHARIA in entirety.

Islam is a live and kicking religion. It will face assault from within and outside. There was pit called mutazila in past, similar to one you find yourself in. At present there are not many who live in that misery. Worry about yourself.

Now let me understand and conclude from the various post my brothers have sent me.

We assure you that you did not understand many of the posts. We did not point it out then because we thought a sincere brother is on his way to Quran and Sunnah. (See I said it. Thank you, we do not appreciate complements when our message is rejected.)

Some brothers tried to quote some HADEES which are totally out of context and do not support following Imam being valid.
Personally I do not remember any such thing. Give example.
Some brothers have sent me the link to download the books which honestly speaking I have still not done in want of time. But I assure you brother that I will do it and read the book. However, I am sure the book might not have supporting verse for following Imam ....
Somebody was talking about assumptions and presumptions, PhDs, MNCs.
otherwise those brothers who have read the book must have quoted the same.
As if they were not quoted.
Following points I have noted from the various posts.
1. A lay man who does not posses Islamic knowledge must follow one particular Imam for ease. However, there is no reference that an AMMI has to follow a particular Imam. He can ask any Islamic Scholar which he finds around and ask the problem.
You perhaps mean Ummi. Pass. You for one seem to have settled for a Designer Islam-even before coming here, the thing we were fearing from the beginning.
The scholar in turn will reply from Quran and Hadees.
Far too often you slip between Hadees and Sunnah.
2. Madhab is formed due to new complication arising in Islam and lack of evidence from Koran and Prophetic saying e.g if some body does not know that in particular situation if his wudu is valid or not and there is no evidence from Koran or Hadees Imam will infer and here the Madhab comes into play. That means Koran and Hadees are deficient in handling new and complicated situation if this is the case we need a new prophet to compensate the deficiency through WAHI rather than Imam cracking head. But since advent of new prophet is out of question as Koran clearly mentions that Prophet is Khatimun Nabi, we have no option but to believe that Koran and Hadees together is perfect and has answer to all the problems. This is also backed by the verse " ALYOUM AKMALTO LAKUM DI NAKUM.......................

That means Koran and Hadees are deficient in handling new and complicated situation if this is the case ..... we have no option but to believe that Koran and Hadees together is perfect and has answer to all the problems.

Then you said that all the four Imams are correct in their inference and if there is some difference it is minor in nature. I think this is also not correct.

I thought you appreciated the fact that we do not negate any of our Imams. Changed your mind?

Had there been minor difference the follower of each of their Imam would not have made four separate MUSALLA right in the house of GOD i.e. KABAA. That suggest that difference were major among them self that no one wanted to pray behind other Imam.

In the cluttered information that you possess there must be one incident when Imam Shafei (RA) performed Prayer according to Hanafi tack. Sowing doubts is not a friendly act.

Now my question is why there are only four Imams why not Five or six or less than four what is the wisdom behind this. Any answer brother.

This too was answered. A brother reminded you of reinventing the wheel. That was a simplification for a new brother, even if endowed with significant management skills. In reality the sorting out of Figh is a gigantic task. Bigger than creating an MNC with bl dollar turn over.

Secondly if all the four are true then how come two different things which are opposite to each other will be true at the same time. For instance Imam SHAFI said to repeat the wudu if one touches his wife. HANFI said no need. If SHAFI is correct the HANFEES NEMAZ will be invalid because there is no nemaz without wudu, if HANFI is correct then SHAFI is a transgressor. How both will be correct at the same time.
Ergo you have not understood. Why don't you read the PDF file with eighty odd pages? Where do you think you are? In your company head quarter talking to minions?

This is confusing. FATHER, SON nad THE GHOST three different identity but one. How it is possible for christians to believe.

In the beginning I had requested you to leave Christianity behind. Give up negation of Christianity. Follow affirmation of Islam. For one you might consider changing your usedid to iloveunity, if you so wish.

Thirdly, sticking to particular madhab opens up the door for rejection of hadees.

I am not a revert brother. I can not even dream of rejecting hadees. Others will testify to that. You have not got even a preliminary foot hold and you want to overhaul Islam. Chill manager.

Because follower thinks that his Imam is correct if any hadees is shown to him which is contrary to his belief pattern. This is a very dangerous situation...........

The situation was sorted out long back. Within few centuries. I am glad that you have come to Delhi.
Hang around the relevant Scholars, if you want to sort out your matter. It has serious repcussion for your hereafter.

If my any of brothers want to reply or give some more input he is welcome I do not have any hard feelings with any one of you.

Why should you have hard feelings for us when we have been trying to help you for three days at the expense of our immediate near and dear ones?

I seriously want my brother to ponder upon these queries I have.

That is the plum on the pudding, eh? Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajioon.

(Will fix the typos later, IA.)

[Abu_Tamim]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

Thank you very much for your sincere effort you have made to convince me that one has to follow a particular Madhab/Imam.

Now there is no point dragging the discussion further as no member has till now provided me the clear cut solid proof from Koran and Prophetic saying in support of such a serious matter of following one particular Madhab/Imam.............

I would now like to conclude the discussion with following notes.

1. There is no verse in Koran which support following one particual Madhab/Imam.
2. There is no prophetic saying in support of above.
3. In lack of evidence if any Muslim still wants to follow one particular Imam/Madhab, the act will be null and void. As GOD himself says Do not follow if you do not know.
4. Following Madhab is invalid and yet some muslim want to act upon is an example of "TRANSGRESSION"
5. Transgression is drifting away from the law of GOD
6. Christians are the victim of transgression so are Jews
7. Due to this transgression the original teaching of prophets get corrupted. We have two live examples in Judaism and Christianity
8.These two revealed religions have been corrupted so much so that that if some follower of these religion wants to make some reform or bring back to the original teaching of respective prophet they will fail miserably.
9. Unlike Islam if GOD forbids get corrupted will be brought back to its original shape without any difficulty as the GOD himself takes the pledge that We have revealed this ZIKR and we are the protector. Here GOD has used the word ZIKR and not Koran which means the SHARIA in entirety.

Now let me understand and conclude from the various post my brothers have sent me..

Some brothers tried to quote some HADEES which are totally out of context and do not support following Imam being valid.
Some brothers have sent me the link to download the books which honestly speaking I have still not done in want of time. But I assure you brother that I will do it and read the book. However, I am sure the book might not have supporting verse for following Imam otherwise those brothers who have read the book must have quoted the same.
Following points I have noted from the various posts.
1. A lay man who does not posses Islamic knowledge must follow one particular Imam for ease. However, there is no reference that an AMMI has to follow a particular Imam. He can ask any Islamic Scholar which he finds around and ask the problem. The scholar in turn will reply from Quran and Hadees.
2. Madhab is formed due to new complication arising in Islam and lack of evidence from Koran and Prophetic saying e.g if some body does not know that in particular situation if his wudu is valid or not and there is no evidence from Koran or Hadees Imam will infer and here the Madhab comes into play. That means Koran and Hadees are deficient in handling new and complicated situation if this is the case we need a new prophet to compensate the deficiency through WAHI rather than Imam cracking head. But since advent of new prophet is out of question as Koran clearly mentions that Prophet is Khatimun Nabi, we have no option but to believe that Koran and Hadees together is perfect and has answer to all the problems. This is also backed by the verse " ALYOUM AKMALTO LAKUM DI NAKUM.......................

Then you said that all the four Imams are correct in their inference and if there is some difference it is minor in nature. I think this is also not correct. Had there been minor difference the follower of each of their Imam would not have made four separate MUSALLA right in the house of GOD i.e. KABAA. That suggest that difference were major among them self that no one wanted to pray behind other Imam.

Now my question is why there are only four Imams why not Five or six or less than four what is the wisdom behind this. Any answer brother.

Secondly if all the four are true then how come two different things which are opposite to each other will be true at the same time. For instance Imam SHAFI said to repeat the wudu if one touches his wife. HANFI said no need. If SHAFI is correct the HANFEES NEMAZ will be invalid because there is no nemaz without wudu, if HANFI is correct then SHAFI is a transgressor. How both will be correct at the same time. This is confusing. FATHER, SON nad THE GHOST three different identity but one. How it is possible for christians to believe.

Thirdly, sticking to particular madhab opens up the door for rejection of hadees. Because follower thinks that his Imam is correct if any hadees is shown to him which is contrary to his belief pattern. This is a very dangerous situation...........
If my any of brothers want to reply or give some more input he is welcome I do not have any hard feelings with any one of you. I seriously want my brother to ponder upon these queries I have.

Regards,

I have put the link to a book. Read it when you get time. Seek knowledge, not arguments. Learn to listen, talk less and don't follow a preplanned agenda. May Allah guide you.

[The Fake Shaykh]

don't follow a preplanned agenda.

and finally everyone just figured this out!

[iabhortrinity]

I have put the link to a book. Read it when you get time. Seek knowledge, not arguments. Learn to listen, talk less and don't follow a preplanned agenda. May Allah guide you.

Dear Brother,

I have visted the link you sent to me but could not find the said book i.e. Legal Status of Following a Madhab. However, there is another book titled "Why follow Madhab and correct way of Salah in Hanafi Madhab. Kindly let me know where exactly I would find the book.

Secondly, I swear upon GOD that I do not have any hidden agenda. I just want to learn nothing else.

Regards

[iabhortrinity]

Bismillah
AA
Liabhortrinity
Please click on the link on post 79 and 82. They are all there.
Allahualam

Dear Brother,

KIndly highlight the book

English Books - Title Author (sorted by authors name) File Size
Comprehensive Dua And Revival Of Sunnah Pamphlet (0.10 MB)1/20/07
Gambling Pamphlet 1.44 MB
Homosexuality Pamphlet 1.5 MB
Remedy Of Masturbation Pamphlet 0.10 MB
Youth - The Pride Of Nation Pamphlet 0.20 MB
Six Fundamentals Or Qualities (Fazail E Amal) Maulana Aashiq Ilahi RA (1.29 MB)1/20/2008
Tanmbihul Ghafellen - Admonition For The Neglectful Faqih Abu Lais Samarqandi RA (3.23 MB)3/10/2008
Hadhrat Muawiya RA - One Glance Mufti Afzal Hoosen Elias (0.60 MB)4/9/2008
Ghair Muqallid (Translation) - Left Click Only Maulana Amin Safdar 3/1/07
Daily Prayer From Quran And Sunnah - Munazate Maqbul Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (2.81 MB)4/9/2008
Desire For The Aakhirah Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (2.39 MB)4/25/2008
Furu Ul Iman - Branches Of Iman Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (3.11 MB)4/9/2008
Muslim Way Of Life Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (5.15 MB)4/9/2008
Peculiar Personal Problems Of Men And Women Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (1.47 MB)4/25/2008
Remedies From (Amale) The Holy Quran Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (2.93 MB)4/9/2008
Taleemuddin - Teachings Of Islam Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanvi RA (2.72 MB)4/9/2008
Muharram And Ashura Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Fazlur Rahman Azmi 2.25 MB
Shabe Baraat Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Fazlur Rahman Azmi 1.47 MB
Turban Kurta Topee - In Light Of Sunnah & Practice Of The Sahaba & Tabieen Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Fazlur Rahman Azmi 1.52 MB
Tibbe Nabawi - Prophetic Medicine - Page 1 - 325 Shaikh Ibn Qayyim Al Jawziyyah RA (9.26 MB)5/3/2008
Tibbe Nabawi - Prophetic Medicine - Page 326 - 652 Shaikh Ibn Qayyim Al Jawziyyah RA (8.65 MB)5/3/2008
Muslim Degeneration And Its Only Remedy (Fazail E Amal) Maulana Ihtishaamul Hasan Kaandhalwi RA (1.30 MB)1/20/2008
Maariful Hadith - Meaning And Messages Of Traditions - LEFT CLICK ONLY Maulana Manzur Noomani RA 10/02/2008
Malfoozaat - Discourses Of Maulana Ilyas Rhmatullahi Alaihi Maulana Manzur Noomani RA (3.05 MB)4/25/2008
Life And Works Of Maulana Mujaddid Ashraf Ali Thanwi RA Hadhrat Qutbul Alam Professor Mohammad Abdullah (3.04 MB)4/9/2008
Why Follow Madhab And Correct Way Of Salat In Hanafi Madhab Sheikh Muhammad Ilyas Faisal (0.10 MB)1/22/2008
Socio Political Thought Of Shah WaliAllah Rahmatullahi Alaihi - Page 1 - 164 Prof. Muhammad (6.63 MB)4/20/2008
Socio Political Thought Of Shah WaliAllah Rahmatullahi Alaihi - Page 165 - 335 Prof. Muhammad (5.87 MB)4/20/2008
Realities And Rules Of Death - Qiyamat Mufti Salejee (2.53 MB)10/28/2008
Authority Of Sunnah Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (1.33 MB)9/4/2010
English Quraan Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (2.65 MB)9/4/2010
English - In Islam Legal Rulings On Saughtered Animals Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (5.18 MB)2/24/2008
Easy Good Deeds Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (3.27 MB)4/25/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Alphabetic List Of Contents Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (2.89 MB)3/3/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 1 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (6.14 MB)3/3/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 2 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (7.45 MB)3/3/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 3 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (6.52 MB)3/3/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 4 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (7.49 MB)4/12/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 5 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (8.14 MB)3/28/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 6 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (6.52 MB)3/28/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 7 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (8.47 MB)5/4/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 8 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (7.99 MB)5/19/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 9 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (7.22 MB)5/19/2008
Islahi Khutbat - Discourses On Islamic Way Of Life - Volume 10 Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (5.86 MB)4/28/2008
Legal Status Of Following A Madhab Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (0.80 MB)9/4/2010
Live Like Brothers Deal Like Strangers Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani DB (0.4 MB) 7/23/07
Shamaail Tirmidhi - Khasaail Nabawi SAWS - Intro And Page 1 - 223 Imam Tirmidhi - Shaikhul Hadith Zakaria RA (6.02 MB)1/27/2008
Shamaail Tirmidhi - Khasaail Nabawi SAWS - Page 224 - 458 Imam Tirmidhi - Shaikhul Hadith Zakaria RA (7.45 MB)1/27/2008
Call To Muslims To Become An Ummah Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (0.6 MB)7/23/07
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V1 - P 1 - 101 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.32 MB)1/12/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V1 - P 102 - 211 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (6.20 MB)2/3/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V1 - P 212 - 271 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (3.30 MB)2/3/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V1 - P 272 - 369 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.46 MB)2/3/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V1 - P 370 - 471 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.66 MB)2/9/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V1 - P 472 - 573 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.52 MB)2/9/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 1 - 101 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.03 MB)3/13/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 102 - 201 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.05 MB)3/13/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 202 - 303 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.18 MB)3/13/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 304 - 403 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (4.89 MB)3/22/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 404 - 503 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.17 MB)3/22/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 504 - 603 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (5.16 MB)3/22/2008
English Hayatus Sahabah RA - V3 - P 604 - 703 Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Kandolvi RA (4.94 MB)3/22/2008
Al Etidaal Fi Maratib - Islamic Politics Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (1.74 MB)9/4/2010
Remembrance Of Death Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (3.34 MB)4/25/2008
Stories (Sacrifices & Devotion) Of The Sahabah RA (Fazail E Amal) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (8.67 MB)12/3/07
Virtues of Holy Quran (Fazail E Amal - Quran) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (3.70 MB)12/3/07
Virtues of Salat/Namaz (Fazail E Amal - Salat) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (3.35 MB)1/12/2008
Virtues of Zikir/Rememberance of Allah (Fazail E Amal - Zikir) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (7.67 MB)1/16/2008
Virtues of Tabligh/Invitation (Fazail E Amal - Tabligh) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (1.31 MB)1/16/2008
Virtues of Hajj (Fazail - E - Hajj) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (0.6 MB)10/29/07
Virtues Of Blessings On Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Fazail - E - Durood) Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakaria RA (2.98 MB)4/5/2008

[Usman]

Dear Brother,

I have visted the link you sent to me but could not find the said book i.e. Legal Status of Following a Madhab. However, there is another book titled "Why follow Madhab and correct way of Salah in Hanafi Madhab. Kindly let me know where exactly I would find the book.

Secondly, I swear upon GOD that I do not have any hidden agenda. I just want to learn nothing else.

Regards

assalaamu alaikum,

Brother, sorry for joining in late, but I have been following the thread for some time. Can you elaborate what's REALLY bugging you?

wassalaam

[iabhortrinity]

Thank you Br. Nomadic,

Also please send me the book of Madhab Hanfi and the book which was written by Imam Abu Hanifa.
Regards,

[NeednoName]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

I think it's high time now that the likes of Maulana Abu Hajira & Colonel Uncle should chip in and handle the queries of Brother Joseph in a more academic way.

In the mean time, I would advise Br. Joseph to go through the links provided by Brother Nomadic or read the following books for a better understanding on the concept of following Madhab:

Fiqh of Following a Madhab (http://www.box.net/shared/a9o265oahp)

Legal Status of Following a Madhab (http://www.box.net/shared/6kjjckbzov)

Br. Joseph,

Book recommended by Br. Abu Tamim is just a click away. Follow the above given links, please.

[iabhortrinity]

First go through all the link. Once you have got your head around the concept, others will assist you. Know this we do not follow Imam Abu Hanifa but rather the systematic approach of school.
Start off with basic as one would do when trying to be mathmatician.
Inorder for one to understand Alzebra and complex mathmatics, one must understand the concept of basic arithmatic.

Thank you Brother,

I have started reading the book titled "The Legal Status of Following a Madhab by Mufti Taqi Usmani. Following a Madhab is also known as TAQLEED as defined by Mufti Taqi Usmani.
Let me finish this book then if I have queries I will come back to you Brothers.

Also please note that I only get two hours in evening for studies so naturally I will take some time to finish the book.

These days I was studing Tafseer Ibn Katheer which I have kept aside for some time so that I devote more time to understanding the concept of Taqleed.

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

Dear All,

I have gone through the books title LEGAL STATUS OF FOLLOWING MADHAB by Justice Taqi Usmani and WHY FOLLOW MADHAB AND ............by Shaikh Muhammad Ilyas Faisal. Both the writers have wasted 80 and 15 pages, time and Money. Had both of them given the cost of paper and cost of publishing the book as an alm to some needy person that would have benifetted both of them on the day of judgement. Its sheer waste of energy. They have wasted my time also. Two full days which I was utilising in reading KORAN-The word of GOD and you had forced me to read a sub standard book in favor of MADHAB. Its shame on you guys. I am going to take tough on this. You have forced me to read a book which are full of lies and AQWAL of falan and falan and falan and you want me to follow this mazhab whose base is AQWAAL of RAJJAL rather than word of GOD. You are even more deplorable than JEWS and CHRISTIANS that atleast their PESHWAS were involved in such a heinous crime but here the whole umma is involved in the crime of hiding truth and writing/referreing books and ascribing the book to GOD.

It was sheer coincedence that I was going through Surah Ahzab Verse 66-69. God Says. I will roast your upper skin and your face. Then you will yell. Allas I would have followed GOD and his Messanger, Oh My God I followed my IMAM, my Ancesters and my Seniors who have drifted me away from the straight path. Oh GOD if you give me one AZAB give them double the Azab. Then GOD of JESUS and MOSES wanrns the Muslim. Oh Muslim do not be like JEWS who have trobled MOSES so much. Do not upset your Prophet. Then GOD recommends in verse no. 70 that YA AHYUHAL LAZINA AMANU ATAQULLAH WA QAULU QAULAN SADEEDA. Means Fear GOD and say the truth.

On one hand I was reading beutiful verse from KORAn which made me cried that if I had not been given HIDAYA I would have been among loosers on the day of qiyama.

And you friends you have got the gift of Islam right from your birth you know no value of this. Let me be very frank in this portal your entire focus is on MADHAB and not on KORAN and Hadees. You are passionate about your Imam and not about your Prophet. One of my brothers want to bring the people by neck and force them to accept MADHAB HANFIA I suppose. For you Islam means MADHAB HANFIA. YOUR SALAT is according to Madhab HANFIA, YOUR SAUM is according to MADHAB HANFIA. YOUR ZAKAT is according to MADHAB HANFIA, Your HAJ is according to MADHAM HANFIA, YOUR WUDU is according to MADHAB HANFIA, YOUR marriage is according to MADHAB HANFIA, your talaq is according to MADHAB HANFIA. Tell me how would you face GOD and HIS PROPHET on the day of JUDGEMENT. GOD will ask JESUS. OH JESUS did yopu tell your people to believe you be the SON of GOD, JESUS will say. GLORY be to you oh my GOD how can I say something which you have not told me to say. Dear Brothers. when JESUS will have no power to save you. How Imam Abu Hanifa will muster courage to tell GOD that He had told you guys to follow him.

Justice Taqi Usmani quoted only four VERSES from KORAN in support of TAQLEED. Now let us see how these verses fit into TAQLEED. Out of total pages only first 22 pages contains Verses and Hadees rest all are Interpolation, Extrapolation and AQWAL E RAJJAL.

Verse no. 1 YA AHYOHAL LAZINA AMANU ATEEULLAH WE ATIUR RASOOL WE AULE AL AMR MINKUM FAIN TANAZATUM FI SHAIAN FARUDDUHU ILALLAHI WE RASULIHI IN KUNTUM TO MINOON BILLAHI WEL YAUMIL AKHIR DHALIKA KHAIRUN WE AHSANU TAWEELA.

Meaning: Oh Muslim follow GOD and follow Prophet and those who are AMR (Khalifa, Omra and ULLEMA) among you. And if any IKHTALAF occur take it back to GOD and PROPHET if you believe on GOD and the day of Judgement this is the best way and and best is its result.

Tafseer : Under this Verse Ibn Katheer has quoted Hadees from Bukhari in support of following Ameer in the Lashker which was sent under leadership of Abdullah bin Hazafa bin Qais then this verse was revealed. In Bukhari and Muslim there is Hadees that Prophet sent one lashker whose Leader was an Ansar. The leader was in doubt whether the team will follow him or not just to confirm he accumulated wood and lit the fire then asked his team to enter into fire. Every one refused and said that to save ourself from this fire we have accepted Islam. Then they went back to Prophet and narrated the whole story. The prophet said that had you entered into fire you would remain in it for ever listen Obey is only in Maroof. INNAMA ATAAT FI MAROOF (SAHIH BUKHARI KITABUL AHKAAM BAAB NO. 4)

This verse rather nullifies TAQLEED rather than supporting it. ATEE is prefixed with ALLAH and RASOOL and not with AULA ALAMR. Why beacuse following Allah and Prophet is unconditional but following IMAM is conditional the next line further clarifies this doubt that if there is controversy then take it back to GOD and PROPHET means KORAN and HADEES so the final authority is with KORAN and HADEES and not with IMAM ABU HANIFA.
Justice TAQI USMANI quoting this verse in support of TAQLEED is transgression. None of the MUFASSIR E KORAN has meant TAQLEED by this verse.

Second verse.SURAH NISA VERSE 80

It looks like Justice Taqi Usmani has not read Koran properly or deliberately changing the meaning of verse. The simple meaning of verse is that " When the rumours are spread take it to Prophet or any Learned who will research and extract the truth behind the rumour and act accordingly. How TAQLEED can be justified on the basis of this verse. No MUFASSEREEN had quoted in last 1400 years in support of Taqleed.

Third verse SURAH TAUBA 122

This verse is in support of learning Deen e Islam and not in support of TAQLEED.

The fourth Verse Surah Nahal Verse 43

The Shan e Nuzool of this verse is Mushrekeen used to doubt about Prophet lagality as he was a BASHR. So Allah says if you doubt about Prophet as He is a BASHR, I have sent all the prophet before were BASHR if you do not know you ask the ULLEMA OF JEWS as they know.

Where TAQLEED (TO ACCEPT QAUL GHAIR NABI WITHOUT PROOF) and where is asking ULLEMA about any MASALA.

HADEES:

In the hadees of HUDHAIFA the ruling is to follow ABU BAKR and UMAR and not IMAM ABU HANIFA.
The second quoted HADEES is in radd of TAQLEED rather than in support of TAQLEED. This is deliberate err on the part of TAQI USMANI. Muqallid gives FATWA on FIQH of PARTICULAR IMAM and not on KORAN and HADEES. Third quoted hadees further clarifies this.

Dear Brothers let me follow KORAN and HADEES. I am comfirtable with this.

I ask you one simple question. How many of you have read KORAN with meaning and Tafseer properly.

Regards,

Yusuf

[حسان 30]

Dear All,


It was sheer coincedence that I was going through Surah Ahzab Verse 66-69. God Says. I will roast your upper skin and your face. Then you will yell. Allas I would have followed GOD and his Messanger, Oh My God I followed my IMAM, my Ancesters and my Seniors who have drifted me away from the straight path. Oh GOD if you give me one AZAB give them double the Azab. Then GOD of JESUS and MOSES wanrns the Muslim. Oh Muslim do not be like JEWS who have trobled MOSES so much. Do not upset your Prophet. Then GOD recommends in verse no. 70 that YA AHYUHAL LAZINA AMANU ATAQULLAH WA QAULU QAULAN SADEEDA. Means Fear GOD and say the truth.

Yusuf

Dear Yusuf,

It was a sheer coincidence that the verses you quoted didn't use the word "Imam" or "aimah", so forget about madhabs, hadeeth and tafseer for now and go learn 'Arabic.

So fear God in your incorrect translation of the Qur'anic verses.

Regards, Me.

[amr123]

:salam:
:bism:

"So ask the People of Knowledge if you do not know"
(Qur'an:21:7)

:ws:

[Maripat]

iabhortrinity

Re: Is it necessary to select one particular Mazhab for neo Muslimn
Dear All,

I have gone through the books title LEGAL STATUS OF FOLLOWING MADHAB by Justice Taqi Usmani and WHY FOLLOW MADHAB AND ............by Shaikh Muhammad Ilyas Faisal.

That was some work. I am fearing that Lord Almighty might reward you in this world itself and keep nothing for hereafter.

Both the writers have wasted 80 and 15 pages, time and Money.

Their reward is with Allah.

Had both of them given the cost of paper and cost of publishing the book as an alm to some needy person that would have benifetted both of them on the day of judgement. Its sheer waste of energy.
They have wasted my time also.

Now it seems that you are unfortunate enough to come out with nothing after spending time with the thoughts of respected scholars. There are felicitous and doomed people. Figure out your own condition.

Two full days which I was utilising in reading KORAN-The word of GOD and you had forced me to read a sub standard book in favor of MADHAB.
Pretending to understand Qur'an? You have shown no such gift till now.
Its shame on you guys.
I, for one, leave that to Allah.
I am going to take tough on this.
Be our guest. My guest manager.
You have forced me to read a book which are full of lies and AQWAL of falan and falan and falan and you want me to follow this mazhab whose base is AQWAAL of RAJJAL rather than word of GOD.
And you could not hook-in to ABC.
You are even more deplorable than JEWS and CHRISTIANS that atleast their PESHWAS were involved in such a heinous crime but here the whole umma is involved in the crime of hiding truth and writing/referreing books and ascribing the book to GOD.
I am glad that you have left at least Christianity behind.
It was sheer coincedence that I was going through Surah Ahzab Verse 66-69.
Tells about your faith.
God Says. I will roast your upper skin and your face. Then you will yell. Allas I would have followed GOD and his Messanger, Oh My God I followed my IMAM, my Ancesters and my Seniors who have drifted me away from the straight path. Oh GOD if you give me one AZAB give them double the Azab.
A cursing guest, eh?
Then GOD of JESUS and MOSES wanrns the Muslim. Oh Muslim do not be like JEWS who have trobled MOSES so much. Do not upset your Prophet.
We have history of loving our Prophet (PBUH) and obeying him. You are a very later comer. Worry more about you. You are still at a cross-road.
Then GOD recommends in verse no. 70 that YA AHYUHAL LAZINA AMANU ATAQULLAH WA QAULU QAULAN SADEEDA. Means Fear GOD and say the truth.
That is what we have been doing. Unfortunately you seem to have missed the train. May Lord prove me wrong. Ameen.

On one hand I was reading beutiful verse from KORAn which made me cried that if I had not been given HIDAYA I would have been among loosers on the day of qiyama.
May be this facile statement will be accepted by Lord. Ameen Ya Sattar.
And you friends you have got the gift of Islam right from your birth you know no value of this.
You have a point here. It moves the earth below our feet when we think of our brothers and sisters who have to leave everything behind to accept Qur'an and Sunnah, particularly in the tighly knit Indian society. But you are hallucinating when you think that you have understood it better then most of us and our pious predecessors. You suffer from a singular lack of reverence for latter. Practically your journey has not even begun.

Let me be very frank in this portal your entire focus is on MADHAB ...
We assure you that this does not take us out side the fold of Islam. On the other hand you do run a great risk of that.
... and not on KORAN and Hadees.
Still confused about Hadees and Sunnah.

You are passionate about your Imam and not about your Prophet.
That is some temerity. You think you are giving us news? We have been around for 1432 years. You are still invited to chug along.
One of my brothers want to bring the people by neck and force them to accept MADHAB HANFIA I suppose.
It is the ages old decision of Ummah that we do not invite to our Mazhab, let alone bringing others with chains in the neck. As far as the hadees is concerned for the time being leave the interpretation to the scholars. It is a question of heaven or hell. Heaven has been covered by hardships. Sometimes the hardship is involved in giving up our intellectual pride. Everybody here had understood this to be relevant in your case the moment you started this thread. Except you. Sorry for a frank talk but you left no option.
For you Islam means MADHAB HANFIA. YOUR SALAT is according to Madhab HANFIA, YOUR SAUM is according to MADHAB HANFIA. YOUR ZAKAT is according to MADHAB HANFIA, Your HAJ is according to MADHAM HANFIA, YOUR WUDU is according to MADHAB HANFIA, YOUR marriage is according to MADHAB HANFIA,
Alhumdulillah. But brother there are other three type of brothers also, all having a good time except fearing for their outcome in the hereafter. Except you.
your talaq is according to MADHAB HANFIA.
Cursing again? May Allah forbid such things, but if it comes to that, and may Almighty forgive me for thinking of such things, then again Alhamdulillah.
Tell me how would you face GOD and HIS PROPHET on the day of JUDGEMENT. GOD will ask JESUS. OH JESUS did yopu tell your people to believe you be the SON of GOD, JESUS will say. GLORY be to you oh my GOD how can I say something which you have not told me to say. Dear Brothers. when JESUS will have no power to save you.
Learn only one thing more. Complete submission to the Will of Allah Most High as told by the Prophet (PBUH) and explained by the Imams. Why are you blocking out the fact that the Imams were not giving went to their opinion? May Allah Most High forgive.
How Imam Abu Hanifa will muster courage to tell GOD that He had told you guys to follow him.
Deaf, dumb, blind, hearing you hear not ...
Justice Taqi Usmani quoted only four VERSES from KORAN in support of TAQLEED.
You should have been ready to give your life for one.
Now let us see how these verses fit into TAQLEED. Out of total pages only first 22 pages contains Verses and Hadees rest all are Interpolation, Extrapolation and AQWAL E RAJJAL.
Venturing to explain Islam already? are some sort of heralder of Dajjal?
Verse no. 1 YA AHYOHAL LAZINA AMANU ATEEULLAH WE ATIUR RASOOL WE AULE AL AMR MINKUM FAIN TANAZATUM FI SHAIAN FARUDDUHU ILALLAHI WE RASULIHI IN KUNTUM TO MINOON BILLAHI WEL YAUMIL AKHIR DHALIKA KHAIRUN WE AHSANU TAWEELA.

Meaning: Oh Muslim follow GOD and follow Prophet and those who are AMR (Khalifa, Omra and ULLEMA) among you. And if any IKHTALAF occur take it back to GOD and PROPHET if you believe on GOD and the day of Judgement this is the best way and and best is its result.

Tafseer : Under this Verse Ibn Katheer has quoted Hadees from Bukhari in support of following Ameer in the Lashker which was sent under leadership of Abdullah bin Hazafa bin Qais then this verse was revealed. In Bukhari and Muslim there is Hadees that Prophet sent one lashker whose Leader was an Ansar. The leader was in doubt whether the team will follow him or not just to confirm he accumulated wood and lit the fire then asked his team to enter into fire. Every one refused and said that to save ourself from this fire we have accepted Islam. Then they went back to Prophet and narrated the whole story. The prophet said that had you entered into fire you would remain in it for ever listen Obey is only in Maroof. INNAMA ATAAT FI MAROOF (SAHIH BUKHARI KITABUL AHKAAM BAAB NO. 4)

This verse rather nullifies TAQLEED rather than supporting it.
Using and incident from the times when Holy Prophet (PBUH) was alive to conclude about the things after he (PBUH) drew curtains?

ATEE is prefixed with ALLAH and RASOOL and not with AULA ALAMR.
Blaming, indirectly, that imams demanded their Ita'at. Haza buhtanul azeem.

Why beacuse following Allah and Prophet is unconditional but following IMAM is conditional the next line further clarifies this doubt that if there is controversy then take it back to GOD and PROPHET means KORAN and HADEES so the final authority is with KORAN and HADEES and not with IMAM ABU HANIFA.
After getting the news from Imams you'll most probably would like to do away with them. In the peanut brains of people like you there is this hidden assumption that you can be of the same status as the four Imams. What presumption!

Justice TAQI USMANI quoting this verse in support of TAQLEED is transgression.
You know perfectly well who is transgressing.

None of the MUFASSIR E KORAN has meant TAQLEED by this verse.
Do not tell me you have been reading tafaseer when you were doing your management course and PhD.

Second verse.SURAH NISA VERSE 80

It looks like Justice Taqi Usmani has not read Koran properly or deliberately changing the meaning of verse.
I suggest that you be respectful to our elders.

The simple meaning of verse is that " When the rumours are spread take it to Prophet or any Learned who will research and extract the truth behind the rumour and act accordingly.
Like you?
How TAQLEED can be justified on the basis of this verse. No MUFASSEREEN had quoted in last 1400 years in support of Taqleed.
There is an inherent claim of reading tafaseer of 1400 hundred years.
Third verse SURAH TAUBA 122

This verse is in support of learning Deen e Islam and not in support of TAQLEED.
Missed a very clear cut evidence Mr.
The fourth Verse Surah Nahal Verse 43

The Shan e Nuzool of this verse is Mushrekeen used to doubt about Prophet lagality as he was a BASHR. So Allah says if you doubt about Prophet as He is a BASHR, I have sent all the prophet before were BASHR if you do not know you ask the ULLEMA OF JEWS as they know.

Where TAQLEED (TO ACCEPT QAUL GHAIR NABI WITHOUT PROOF) and where is asking ULLEMA about any MASALA.

Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know. How much more clear has it to be?

HADEES:

In the hadees of HUDHAIFA the ruling is to follow ABU BAKR and UMAR and not IMAM ABU HANIFA.
And who told you about Abu Bakr(RA) and Umar (RA)? You have persistently missed the transmission angle. But then guidance is from Lord Most High only.
The second quoted HADEES is in radd of TAQLEED rather than in support of TAQLEED.
Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) following beloved Prophet (PBUH), people following Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA). Is that so difficult to understand? Dimwit or what?
This is deliberate err on the part of TAQI USMANI.
Haza buhtan
Muqallid gives FATWA on FIQH of PARTICULAR IMAM and not on KORAN and HADEES.
It is bit dragging by now. Nothing much to discover about your colours.
Third quoted hadees further clarifies this.
This hadees is from Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal (RA). He'll give a fiqh and say that do not follow it. How do you get away in your company?
Dear Brothers let me follow KORAN and HADEES.
La ikraha fideen.
I am comfirtable with this.
I wish you were not
I ask you one simple question. How many of you have read KORAN with meaning and Tafseer properly.
You are determined to follow your baser self, how will it benefit you?

Regards,

Yusuf
Dug the mountain, found the mice. Sigh!

[amr123]

:salam:
:bism:


InshAllah you will find out the truth.

p.s. Seek knowledge but before that learn adhab(manners). Without that all our ilm(knowledge) will be wasted. Remember what happened to Iblees(devil), He is very knowledgeble, but due to lack of adhab he became arrogant and we all know where he ended up.
So thread carefully bro.

[iabhortrinity]

Thank you Br. Azhar,
I will try my best not to cross the limit in ADAB.

[amr123]

Thank you Br. Azhar,
I will try my best not to cross the limit in ADAB.

:salam:
:bism:

:-) Be patient bro. Just dont jump into conclusions. Following an Imam does not disturb the hierarchy, which is Allah, Prophet muhammad(saw), Rest of the Prophets( Ibrahim as, Isa as etc) The sahaba(companions), then the scholars of the religion(of which the Imams belong).


Before you reject the scholars, just learn how they lived and how much they loved Allah and his messenger(saw), and the extent of their knowledge.
Eg: Imam Abu Hanifa used to recite the Whole Quran everyday within the 5 prayers. He used to perform Isha and Fajr prayer with the same wudu, because he will be praying Tahajud the whole night. All this and seeking knowledge, writing numerous books, teaching thousands of students and the prayers went hand in hand. He could do it because his intentions were pure, Only to please Allah. This is just a small example.

Watch this video, its a small biography of Imam Shafi'i. Please do watch the rest of the parts.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALRL4GzQlA

[amr123]

:salam:

Give him time, right now he is overburdened with knowledge without a teacher or guidance. InshAllah he will find the truth.

[amr123]

People from worse conditions have rose to a very high level. Be optimistic bro :-) (sorry this comes from a born pessimist, lol) Did you read this thread: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?71256-The-Prophet%28saws%29-amp-the-Alcoholic!
Its Exactly the reminder we all need.

InshAllah regardless of our faults lets pray to Allah the most merciful that we all meet in Jannah. Ameen.

:salam:

[Abu_Tamim]

Thank you Br. Azhar,
I will try my best not to cross the limit in ADAB.

You have been crossing limits of adab from the beginning and your last post is absolutely disgusting. I told you earlier not to follow a pre-plotted agenda and you are still doing that. Allah says in the Qur'an, "This is the Book. In it is Guidance sure for those who fear their Lord."
If you are true in your claims, then I advise you to sit with some scholars in whichever city you are and "listen". May Allah guide you.

[dr.ati]

:salam:

@ OP . Did you read the translation of " Umdat ul Fiqh" of Imam Ibn Qudamah ra?
If you have read " Legal status of following a Madhab" by Mufti Taqi Usmani DB , then how much do you agree with his criticism of certain types or behaviors of Taqleed ( inertia in Taqleed). Thats in the last few pages of the book and it draws a balance between Taqleed and denial of Nas (Quran and Hadith)

Incase if you have not read it. Read it from here. ( read from Inertia in Taqleed till the end)

http://www.cometoislam.com/fiqh/legal/116-117_files/image001.jpg

http://www.cometoislam.com/fiqh/legal/118-119_files/image001.jpg

[farook]

Dear All,

I have gone through the books title LEGAL STATUS OF FOLLOWING MADHAB by Justice Taqi Usmani and WHY FOLLOW MADHAB AND ............by Shaikh Muhammad Ilyas Faisal. Both the writers have wasted 80 and 15 pages, time and Money. Had both of them given the cost of paper and cost of publishing the book as an alm to some needy person that would have benifetted both of them on the day of judgement. Its sheer waste of energy. They have wasted my time also. Two full days which I was utilising in reading KORAN-The word of GOD and you had forced me to read a sub standard book in favor of MADHAB. Its shame on you guys. I am going to take tough on this. You have forced me to read a book which are full of lies and AQWAL of falan and falan and falan and you want me to follow this mazhab whose base is AQWAAL of RAJJAL rather than word of GOD. You are even more deplorable than JEWS and CHRISTIANS that atleast their PESHWAS were involved in such a heinous crime but here the whole umma is involved in the crime of hiding truth and writing/referreing books and ascribing the book to GOD.

It was sheer coincedence that I was going through Surah Ahzab Verse 66-69. God Says. I will roast your upper skin and your face. Then you will yell. Allas I would have followed GOD and his Messanger, Oh My God I followed my IMAM, my Ancesters and my Seniors who have drifted me away from the straight path. Oh GOD if you give me one AZAB give them double the Azab. Then GOD of JESUS and MOSES wanrns the Muslim. Oh Muslim do not be like JEWS who have trobled MOSES so much. Do not upset your Prophet. Then GOD recommends in verse no. 70 that YA AHYUHAL LAZINA AMANU ATAQULLAH WA QAULU QAULAN SADEEDA. Means Fear GOD and say the truth.

On one hand I was reading beutiful verse from KORAn which made me cried that if I had not been given HIDAYA I would have been among loosers on the day of qiyama.

And you friends you have got the gift of Islam right from your birth you know no value of this. Let me be very frank in this portal your entire focus is on MADHAB and not on KORAN and Hadees. You are passionate about your Imam and not about your Prophet. One of my brothers want to bring the people by neck and force them to accept MADHAB HANFIA I suppose. For you Islam means MADHAB HANFIA. YOUR SALAT is according to Madhab HANFIA, YOUR SAUM is according to MADHAB HANFIA. YOUR ZAKAT is according to MADHAB HANFIA, Your HAJ is according to MADHAM HANFIA, YOUR WUDU is according to MADHAB HANFIA, YOUR marriage is according to MADHAB HANFIA, your talaq is according to MADHAB HANFIA. Tell me how would you face GOD and HIS PROPHET on the day of JUDGEMENT. GOD will ask JESUS. OH JESUS did yopu tell your people to believe you be the SON of GOD, JESUS will say. GLORY be to you oh my GOD how can I say something which you have not told me to say. Dear Brothers. when JESUS will have no power to save you. How Imam Abu Hanifa will muster courage to tell GOD that He had told you guys to follow him.

Justice Taqi Usmani quoted only four VERSES from KORAN in support of TAQLEED. Now let us see how these verses fit into TAQLEED. Out of total pages only first 22 pages contains Verses and Hadees rest all are Interpolation, Extrapolation and AQWAL E RAJJAL.

Verse no. 1 YA AHYOHAL LAZINA AMANU ATEEULLAH WE ATIUR RASOOL WE AULE AL AMR MINKUM FAIN TANAZATUM FI SHAIAN FARUDDUHU ILALLAHI WE RASULIHI IN KUNTUM TO MINOON BILLAHI WEL YAUMIL AKHIR DHALIKA KHAIRUN WE AHSANU TAWEELA.

Meaning: Oh Muslim follow GOD and follow Prophet and those who are AMR (Khalifa, Omra and ULLEMA) among you. And if any IKHTALAF occur take it back to GOD and PROPHET if you believe on GOD and the day of Judgement this is the best way and and best is its result.

Tafseer : Under this Verse Ibn Katheer has quoted Hadees from Bukhari in support of following Ameer in the Lashker which was sent under leadership of Abdullah bin Hazafa bin Qais then this verse was revealed. In Bukhari and Muslim there is Hadees that Prophet sent one lashker whose Leader was an Ansar. The leader was in doubt whether the team will follow him or not just to confirm he accumulated wood and lit the fire then asked his team to enter into fire. Every one refused and said that to save ourself from this fire we have accepted Islam. Then they went back to Prophet and narrated the whole story. The prophet said that had you entered into fire you would remain in it for ever listen Obey is only in Maroof. INNAMA ATAAT FI MAROOF (SAHIH BUKHARI KITABUL AHKAAM BAAB NO. 4)

This verse rather nullifies TAQLEED rather than supporting it. ATEE is prefixed with ALLAH and RASOOL and not with AULA ALAMR. Why beacuse following Allah and Prophet is unconditional but following IMAM is conditional the next line further clarifies this doubt that if there is controversy then take it back to GOD and PROPHET means KORAN and HADEES so the final authority is with KORAN and HADEES and not with IMAM ABU HANIFA.
Justice TAQI USMANI quoting this verse in support of TAQLEED is transgression. None of the MUFASSIR E KORAN has meant TAQLEED by this verse.

Second verse.SURAH NISA VERSE 80

It looks like Justice Taqi Usmani has not read Koran properly or deliberately changing the meaning of verse. The simple meaning of verse is that " When the rumours are spread take it to Prophet or any Learned who will research and extract the truth behind the rumour and act accordingly. How TAQLEED can be justified on the basis of this verse. No MUFASSEREEN had quoted in last 1400 years in support of Taqleed.

Third verse SURAH TAUBA 122

This verse is in support of learning Deen e Islam and not in support of TAQLEED.

The fourth Verse Surah Nahal Verse 43

The Shan e Nuzool of this verse is Mushrekeen used to doubt about Prophet lagality as he was a BASHR. So Allah says if you doubt about Prophet as He is a BASHR, I have sent all the prophet before were BASHR if you do not know you ask the ULLEMA OF JEWS as they know.

Where TAQLEED (TO ACCEPT QAUL GHAIR NABI WITHOUT PROOF) and where is asking ULLEMA about any MASALA.

HADEES:

In the hadees of HUDHAIFA the ruling is to follow ABU BAKR and UMAR and not IMAM ABU HANIFA.
The second quoted HADEES is in radd of TAQLEED rather than in support of TAQLEED. This is deliberate err on the part of TAQI USMANI. Muqallid gives FATWA on FIQH of PARTICULAR IMAM and not on KORAN and HADEES. Third quoted hadees further clarifies this.

Dear Brothers let me follow KORAN and HADEES. I am comfirtable with this.

I ask you one simple question. How many of you have read KORAN with meaning and Tafseer properly.

Regards,

Yusuf

My Dear Brother Yusuf, Assalaamoalaikum

Please do follow the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Holy Messenger(SAW). Forget about the rest, but do remain a good student for ever. Always, like I do, like we all do, ask Allah(SWT) for Guidance, for Guidance is with Him only.

Brotherly yours
farook

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:
:bism:

:-) Be patient bro. Just dont jump into conclusions. Following an Imam does not disturb the hierarchy, which is Allah, Prophet muhammad(saw), Rest of the Prophets( Ibrahim as, Isa as etc) The sahaba(companions), then the scholars of the religion(of which the Imams belong).


Before you reject the scholars, just learn how they lived and how much they loved Allah and his messenger(saw), and the extent of their knowledge.
Eg: Imam Abu Hanifa used to recite the Whole Quran everyday within the 5 prayers. He used to perform Isha and Fajr prayer with the same wudu, because he will be praying Tahajud the whole night. All this and seeking knowledge, writing numerous books, teaching thousands of students and the prayers went hand in hand. He could do it because his intentions were pure, Only to please Allah. This is just a small example.

Watch this video, its a small biography of Imam Shafi'i. Please do watch the rest of the parts.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALRL4GzQlA

Dear Azhar Bai,

My only fear is that it disturbs the hierarchy. I have noticed this during my christianity days. We used to follow our St. Paul without referring to Bible and reconfirm that. If I follow any one other than Prophet Mohammed SAW there is an iota of chance even if 0.00001% that in the process of following an Imam if I reject knowingly or unknowingly any order of our Prophet Mohammed SAW I am destined to enter into Jahannum. My fear is this............because rejecting any saying of Prophet if proved to be Saheeh is tantamount to rejecting the Prophet himself.
As Prophet said that the whole of my UMMA will enter into JANNAH except those who deny me. The companion asked who will deny you oh Prophet. The one who disobeys me.

As far as status of IMAM is concerned they have very high status. I honour them all but to follow them blindly is where the problem starts. I have learnt this concept by reading the life of Companions. e.g OMAR ordered not to perform HAJ TAMATTO when he was Ameer ul Momineen. His son Ibn Omar said I am going to perform Haj Tamatto. Others objected why are you going to do this when your father has prohibited. He replied in very plain language that the Islam was revealed to Prophet Mohammed and not to my father and Prophet Mohammed did not prohibited.

You said Imam Abu Hanifa used to recite whole KORAN in one day within the five prayers. Please let me know the authenticity of this statement. Once a person came to prophet and said I am capable of finishing KORAN in one day. Prophet said don't do this. He asked can I finish it in two days Prophet said no. He again asked if I can finish it in three days Prophet replied yes in three days. Once should not finish whole KORAN in less than three days. If somebody do it knowingly he is denying the Prophet. I think this story is dobtful from a scholar of such calibre it is next to impossible some one at later stage attributed this to Imam Abu Hanifa.

Secondly, performing Isha and Fajr with same WUDU. What are the things which nullifies one WUDU. Any thing passing out from front and behind, Sound sleep, (Blood according to FIQHA HANFIA). It means from night prayer to fajr prayer Imam Abu Hanifa did not sleep accepted, what about his calling nature, if he is sexually fit what about EHTELAM. Now he did it for forty years as written in the book why foolow MADHAB and correct way of salah by Mohammed Ilyas Faisal. How it is possible boss. It is scientifically and medically incorrect. Morovere, you are dishonoring your IMAM ABU HANIFA by proving him to be impotent. Thirdly KORAN says "LAQAD KANA LAKUM FI RASULALLAH USWATE HASNA" AHZAB 21 For you Rasool is the best role model. Now think about this incident. Three companions came to AISHA and asked what our proiphet do at night. Aisha replied He is awake for Qiyam Lail, he sleeps and he has wives. Simple, any one who crosses this limit is transgresser and considered the Ibadah of Prophet less in nature. Now further Companion said we are common people so we need to do more and one of them said I will remain awake whole night, the other said I will fast whoile year the third said I will not go to my wife any more. Aisha narrated the whole story to Prophet. Prophet called them and said I am the most fearful of GOD but I sleep at night, I am awake at night and I have wives also. So over doing in IBADAH is not acceptable. Second incident. Once prophet visited one sahabia (Zainab) HE saw one rope hanging from the roof. He asked what is this reply came that when ZAINAB feels tired while praying salah she holds the rope and then stand. Prophet ordered to cut the rope and said when ZAINAB feels tired ask her to take rest. Because LA RAHBANIA FI ISLAM. There is no RAHBANIA in Islam.

I love Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi and any other imam, scholars, I love all of them but I cannot take his statement without reconfirming. I feel that not following Imam is not dishonoring him. Abdullah Ibn Omar did not dishonor his father, I suppose.

Regards

[iabhortrinity]

My Dear Brother Yusuf, Assalaamoalaikum

Please do follow the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Holy Messenger(SAW). Forget about the rest, but do remain a good student for ever. Always, like I do, like we all do, ask Allah(SWT) for Guidance, for Guidance is with Him only.

Brotherly yours
farook

Thank you Brother Farook,

I am just a beginner so making mistake is inevitable. Kindly forgive me if I have made any mistake. I want to learnn more about Islam and follow it properly.

Regards,

[meelash]

السلام عليكم,

iabhortrinity- There is no reason for this thread to have stretched on for 13 pages. I explained clearly in post 58: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?71104-Is-it-necessary-to-select-one-particular-Mazhab-for-neo-Muslimn&p=597149&viewfull=1#post597149 that if one wishes to follow the WAY of the Prophet :saw: there is no possibility for doing so other than following the imams.

I don't understand why the thread is still continuing with the same arguments 8 pages later?

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

@ OP . Did you read the translation of " Umdat ul Fiqh" of Imam Ibn Qudamah ra?
If you have read " Legal status of following a Madhab" by Mufti Taqi Usmani DB , then how much do you agree with his criticism of certain types or behaviors of Taqleed ( inertia in Taqleed). Thats in the last few pages of the book and it draws a balance between Taqleed and denial of Nas (Quran and Hadith)

Incase if you have not read it. Read it from here. ( read from Inertia in Taqleed till the end)

http://www.cometoislam.com/fiqh/legal/116-117_files/image001.jpg

http://www.cometoislam.com/fiqh/legal/118-119_files/image001.jpg

Dear Br. Dr. Ati,

I have read this part also the INERTIA in Taqleed. When a follower sees any HADEES contrary to HIS IMAM FATWA and act upon the HADEES rather than FATWA then where is TAQLEED. It is following SUNNAH, ITTEBA...... TAQLEED is to accept and act upon the FATWA of IMAM blindly and sticking to it as per my understanding. If I am incorrect please correct me....

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

السلام عليكم,

iabhortrinity- There is no reason for this thread to have stretched on for 13 pages. I explained clearly in post 58: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?71104-Is-it-necessary-to-select-one-particular-Mazhab-for-neo-Muslimn&p=597149&viewfull=1#post597149 that if one wishes to follow the WAY of the Prophet :saw: there is no possibility for doing so other than following the imams.

I don't understand why the thread is still continuing with the same arguments 8 pages later?

Dear Meelash,

If you are true in your statement that Following an Imam is equal to Following Prophet then please refer to me the books of FIQH HANFIA. Let me reconfirm myself, if it is exactly the same then I have no problem accepting MADHAB HAFIA.
Regards,

[meelash]

Dear Meelash,

If you are true in your statement that Following an Imam is equal to Following Prophet then please refer to me the books of FIQH HANFIA. Let me reconfirm myself, if it is exactly the same then I have no problem accepting MADHAB HAFIA.
Regards,

I don't understand. Do you know of some other way of following the Prophet :saw: besides what I mentioned in that post?

There is no other way.

[abuhajira]

Dear Meelash,

If you are true in your statement that Following an Imam is equal to Following Prophet then please refer to me the books of FIQH HANFIA. Let me reconfirm myself, if it is exactly the same then I have no problem accepting MADHAB HAFIA.
Regards,

:salam:

Kindly search for "اعلاء السنن". InshAllah you will find sufficient discussion on the Hanafi Madhab and its basis in ahadeeth

You may download it here : http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=2378

:ws:

[iabhortrinity]

I don't understand. Do you know of some other way of following the Prophet :saw: besides what I mentioned in that post?

There is no other way.

Dear Meelash,

Ok if this is the case I am ready to follow Imam Abu Hanifa. Please refer to me his books.

Regards,

[meelash]

Dear Meelash,

Ok if this is the case I am ready to follow Imam Abu Hanifa. Please refer to me his books.

Regards,

السلام عليكم,

Alhumdulillah. But I think you still have not read carefully yet. The chain of narration of the way of the Prophet :saw: did not stop with Imam Abu Hanifa- it is still continuing today. So you need to find a present-day link in that chain to learn from- someone who is easy for you to access and who your research finds to be trustworthy, pious, and a high standard of scholarship.

If you give general information on your location, others can probably give you suggestions.

[iabhortrinity]

السلام عليكم,

Alhumdulillah. But I think you still have not read carefully yet. The chain of narration of the way of the Prophet :saw: did not stop with Imam Abu Hanifa- it is still continuing today. So you need to find a present-day link in that chain to learn from- someone who is easy for you to access and who your research finds to be trustworthy, pious, and a high standard of scholarship.

If you give general information on your location, others can probably give you suggestions.

You be my teacher and tell me what i need to do.........I do not have time to search for people around who will teach me.

[meelash]

You be my teacher and tell me what i need to do.........I do not have time to search for people around who will teach me.

Don't be discouraged, brother, inshaa Allah it will not take too much time. A little bit of sacrifice to find the way of Allah and you will reap the rewards many-fold!

As for me, I'm just an ordinary person, I'm not any kind of link in the chain of narration from the Prophet :saw:. But personally, I refer all my questions on fiqh to Mufti Ebrahim Salejee at jamiat.org.za/. I'm sure if you are in India ( I believe?) there will be many excellent scholars nearby who will be very convenient for you to access.

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

Kindly search for "اعلاء السنن". InshAllah you will find sufficient discussion on the Hanafi Madhab and its basis in ahadeeth

You may download it here : http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=2378

:ws:

Dear,
The book is in Arabic and I do not know Arabi. Please let me know if the book is translated into English

[amr123]

Dear Meelash,

If you are true in your statement that Following an Imam is equal to Following Prophet then please refer to me the books of FIQH HANFIA. Let me reconfirm myself, if it is exactly the same then I have no problem accepting MADHAB HAFIA.
Regards,

Assalamualaikum, yousef.
:bism:
May Allah guide you in the right path. Ameen.
The problem with us layman is when we read the translation of the Hadith and try to derive the actual msg of the Prophet it is very difficult. First of All we need to know Arabic so nothing is lost or misinterpreted during translation. We should understand the situation and context of the Hadith, Also we should know many number of other Hadith of the same topic.

For example Our Prophet :saw: Has forbidden weeping over the grave:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet passed by a woman who was sitting and weeping beside a grave and said to her, "Fear Allah and be patient."


But also Prophet :saw: cried when his son died but look at the hadith:

Anas (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) came to his son Ibrahim (May Allah be pleased with him) when he was breathing his last. The eyes of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) began shedding tears. `Abdur-Rahman bin `Auf (May Allah be pleased with him) said, "O Messenger of Allah, you too weep?'' He (PBUH) said, "O Ibn `Auf! It is mercy.'' Then he began to weep and said, "The eyes are shedding tears and the heart is grieved, and we will not say except what pleases our Rubb. O Ibrahim! Indeed we are grieved by your departure.''
[Al-Bukhari].


Just imagine if a layman person knew only about the first Hadith translation, He would have certainly rebuked everyone who was crying. Also another point, the weeping mentioned in the first hadith is actually 'wailing' which women did while someone died. They shout and hit their chest etc. So you can imagine what all was lost just in translation.

So you can imagine the disadvantage we laymen are while trying to derive Fiqh ourselves. Here comes the role of the Scholars like Imam Hanifa etc, They have memorised over 1million Hadith! just imagine the advantage they have. Also in their times scholars were really abundant, so dont you think if they made a small mistake they would be able to escape without opposition.

You mentioned about the Hadith not completing Quran in less than 3 days. Can you be sure if it was said about reciting Quran in the prayer or outside the prayer? No we cannot. We laymen dont know the complete circumstances of the Hadith or if there is any other Hadith permitting it in prayer etc. There are lots of such issues. So the most logic solution is to seek knowledge from reliable people. They are the scholars. :-)

Hope you are getting the idea. We do not believe these Imams to be infallable or treat them above the Prophet :saw: or even the Sahaba. The hieriarchy stays intact. Its only because they ve transmitted the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet :saw: so efficiently that we follow them. :-)

[amr123]

Dear Meelash,

Ok if this is the case I am ready to follow Imam Abu Hanifa. Please refer to me his books.

Regards,

Assalamualaikum bro,

Since you are from Kerala, it will be easier for you to follow Imam Shafi'i. Since almost 99% of the kerala Muslims follow that Madhab. For guidance go to any sunni mosque near you and request the Imam to give you small tutions. InshAllah you will get help.

Also brother, i m asking this only since you are a new muslim. Have you learned to recite the Quran and to pray Salath?

[abuhajira]

Dear,
The book is in Arabic and I do not know Arabi. Please let me know if the book is translated into English

:salam:

Unfortunately the book is in arabic, just like majority of knowledge of deen is in arabic. There is also immense information in urdu perhaps you can look into those books.

Please do understand, that madhahib follow the methodology (usools) of deducing ruling from nusoos (texts). So as long as one does not know these usools extensive mistakes can and are prone to be made while deducing a ruling. For example, we sit and urinate, but in bukhari shareef you would not find any hadeeth which tells us to sit and urinate, on the contrary what you will find is that Nabi :saw: stood and urinated. So applying the quote of the imams, when you find a sahih hadeeth that is my madhab, a self indulging learner will prefer this saheeh hadeeth of standing and urinating over the opinion of sitting and urinating.

This is just one example. So should you want to learn the madhab's view, you will have to first understand its usools. So the task that you are embarking is not a small feat. I make dua for you.

The books that would broadly tell you about hanafi usools are : Al Mujiz, Usul ush Shaashi, Usul us Sarkhasi and that of Basduwi, Nurul Anwaar etc.. These are all again in arabic.

It is a traditional manner that din was meant to be learnt in arabic. Since there is much that is lost in translation. A living example is majority ulama of Turkey who do not learn from classical texts and many learned do not even know indepth arabic.

Hence before you embark on learning usool, you need to get a grasp of basic arabic. Normally Arabic studies is a 1-3 years course. In deobandi madaris you can do it in 3 along with initial usools and fiqhi rulings.

Those who feel that this task is too time consuming, which I must tell you that it definitely is, have to rely on someone. Just like you would rely on someone's translation of classical book, it will have to be a blind reliance. Hence, a preference in this case would be to rely on some one who has infact spent that much time and studied enough.

At any moment during your strive to learn arabi, usools, fiqh of a specific madhab, you feel that you need to judge whether the fellow you are following is indeed on the right path, it would require you to surpass him in knowledge. A student who hasnt studied calculus cannot judge his calculus teacher. It is simple. So, while your drive is genuine, you need to keep striving. And while you do, rely on some one you can trust and focus on your goal of studies.

The reason for you, atleast, I would request to choose one person to follow is just so that you do not go into a repetitive cycle of judging every action, and not having the tools to do so.. so instead of wasting time everytime, you choose one who you rely in the begining and follow him untill you are capable of judging.

I make dua you strive on the path of learning and learn all which is beneficial for you. Ameen

:ws:

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamualaikum, yousef.
:bism:
May Allah guide you in the right path. Ameen.
The problem with us layman is when we read the translation of the Hadith and try to derive the actual msg of the Prophet it is very difficult. First of All we need to know Arabic so nothing is lost or misinterpreted during translation. We should understand the situation and context of the Hadith, Also we should know many number of other Hadith of the same topic.



For example Our Prophet :saw: Has forbidden weeping over the grave:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet passed by a woman who was sitting and weeping beside a grave and said to her, "Fear Allah and be patient."


But also Prophet :saw: cried when his son died but look at the hadith:

Anas (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) came to his son Ibrahim (May Allah be pleased with him) when he was breathing his last. The eyes of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) began shedding tears. `Abdur-Rahman bin `Auf (May Allah be pleased with him) said, "O Messenger of Allah, you too weep?'' He (PBUH) said, "O Ibn `Auf! It is mercy.'' Then he began to weep and said, "The eyes are shedding tears and the heart is grieved, and we will not say except what pleases our Rubb. O Ibrahim! Indeed we are grieved by your departure.''
[Al-Bukhari].


Just imagine if a layman person knew only about the first Hadith translation, He would have certainly rebuked everyone who was crying. Also another point, the weeping mentioned in the first hadith is actually 'wailing' which women did while someone died. They shout and hit their chest etc. So you can imagine what all was lost just in translation.

So you can imagine the disadvantage we laymen are while trying to derive Fiqh ourselves. Here comes the role of the Scholars like Imam Hanifa etc, They have memorised over 1million Hadith! just imagine the advantage they have. Also in their times scholars were really abundant, so dont you think if they made a small mistake they would be able to escape without opposition.

You mentioned about the Hadith not completing Quran in less than 3 days. Can you be sure if it was said about reciting Quran in the prayer or outside the prayer? No we cannot. We laymen dont know the complete circumstances of the Hadith or if there is any other Hadith permitting it in prayer etc. There are lots of such issues. So the most logic solution is to seek knowledge from reliable people. They are the scholars. :-)

Hope you are getting the idea. We do not believe these Imams to be infallable or treat them above the Prophet :saw: or even the Sahaba. The hieriarchy stays intact. Its only because they ve transmitted the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet :saw: so efficiently that we follow them. :-)

Agreed hundred percent.......that deriving meaning of Hadees in right perspective is a difficult job. But we must derive the FIQH in the light of how companions have arrived at. Because they wer the people whe were with Prophet most of the time he knew better than any other person on this earth about thye meaning of Koran and Hadees, then comes Tabeein and then Taba Tabein. If I follow any Imam the link is breaking. Now coming to your point of about the Hadees of Anas bin Malik is a clear message that one should be patient at the time of death of ones Kin and Kith. Sahaba knew this that is the reson why Abdur Rahman bin Auf asked Prophet why he is crying he knew that crying at the time of death is discouraged, however if you cannot control out of high degree of grief you are allowed to shed tears. That is the reosan why Prophet said this is RAHMAH which is coming out of eyes...............in another Hadees regarding same incident.

Now as regards, finishing Koran in Salah or out of Salah, If any SAHABA has finished KORAn in one day inside SALAH that means the hadees means that Prophet prohibited to finish KORAN in one day only out of SALAH and not inside SALAH. We do not have any example that any of Sahaba completed KORAn in one day inside SALAH so the HUKM of not completing KORAN in one day is AAM for both inside salah and outside salah. Moreover, I asked you to please give me the reference of this event from authentic Chains of Narrators and link this event to Imam Abu Hanifa.

[amr123]

Because they wer the people whe were with Prophet most of the time he knew better than any other person on this earth about thye meaning of Koran and Hadees, then comes Tabeein and then Taba Tabein. If I follow any Imam the link is breaking.

Imam Abu Hanifa is Tabeein, Imam Malik is Taba Tabein. :-)

[iabhortrinity]

Imam Abu Hanifa is Tabeein, Imam Malik is Taba Tabein. :-)

Thank you Br Azhar for correcting me. But you need to prove with authentic reference who are the Sahabas he met in his life time.

[amr123]

Thank you Br Azhar for correcting me. But you need to prove with authentic reference who are the Sahabas he met in his life time.
:salam:
:bism:
Ibn `Abd al-Barr mentions in his Jami` Bayan al-`Ilm [Vol. 1, 35], after he mentioned, alongside its sanad, a piece of news which Imam Abu Hanifa heard from Abdullah ibn al-Harith ibn al-Juz’, the Sahabi, "Ibn Sa`d, author of al-Waqidi, mentioned that Abu Hanifa saw Anas ibn Malik and Abdullah ibn al-Harith ibn al-Juz’." Counting on this, Ibn al-Juz’ is considered to have died late, and in priority, that Abu Hanifa saw Abdullah ibn Abi Awfa since he was Kufi with regards to his residence and place of death.

One of the Hadith narrated to imam Abu Hanifa by Anas ibn Malik (ra):

"Seeking of knowledge is an obligation on each and every Muslim." Reported by Abu Hanifa upon the authority of Anas ibn Malik. Many books of biography mention two chains of transmition for this Hadith.

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

Unfortunately the book is in arabic, just like majority of knowledge of deen is in arabic. There is also immense information in urdu perhaps you can look into those books.

Please do understand, that madhahib follow the methodology (usools) of deducing ruling from nusoos (texts). So as long as one does not know these usools extensive mistakes can and are prone to be made while deducing a ruling. For example, we sit and urinate, but in bukhari shareef you would not find any hadeeth which tells us to sit and urinate, on the contrary what you will find is that Nabi :saw: stood and urinated. So applying the quote of the imams, when you find a sahih hadeeth that is my madhab, a self indulging learner will prefer this saheeh hadeeth of standing and urinating over the opinion of sitting and urinating.

This is just one example. So should you want to learn the madhab's view, you will have to first understand its usools. So the task that you are embarking is not a small feat. I make dua for you.

The books that would broadly tell you about hanafi usools are : Al Mujiz, Usul ush Shaashi, Usul us Sarkhasi and that of Basduwi, Nurul Anwaar etc.. These are all again in arabic.

It is a traditional manner that din was meant to be learnt in arabic. Since there is much that is lost in translation. A living example is majority ulama of Turkey who do not learn from classical texts and many learned do not even know indepth arabic.

Hence before you embark on learning usool, you need to get a grasp of basic arabic. Normally Arabic studies is a 1-3 years course. In deobandi madaris you can do it in 3 along with initial usools and fiqhi rulings.

Those who feel that this task is too time consuming, which I must tell you that it definitely is, have to rely on someone. Just like you would rely on someone's translation of classical book, it will have to be a blind reliance. Hence, a preference in this case would be to rely on some one who has infact spent that much time and studied enough.

At any moment during your strive to learn arabi, usools, fiqh of a specific madhab, you feel that you need to judge whether the fellow you are following is indeed on the right path, it would require you to surpass him in knowledge. A student who hasnt studied calculus cannot judge his calculus teacher. It is simple. So, while your drive is genuine, you need to keep striving. And while you do, rely on some one you can trust and focus on your goal of studies.

The reason for you, atleast, I would request to choose one person to follow is just so that you do not go into a repetitive cycle of judging every action, and not having the tools to do so.. so instead of wasting time everytime, you choose one who you rely in the begining and follow him untill you are capable of judging.

I make dua you strive on the path of learning and learn all which is beneficial for you. Ameen

:ws:

Brother Abu Hajira,

None of the Books of Fiqh Hanfia has been translated into English or Urdu.............. if this is the case how common people like me will know about Fiqha Hanfia then I do not have choice but to go to some Alim and ask him about Deen e Islam but then how would I know that what ever he is saying is correct. In Darul Uloom deoband there was an sting operation in which it was revealed that ULLEMA take exhorbitant Money and give FATAWA which suits the Person. Abbasi Khalifa paid huge amount to his Mufti demanding Fatawa for permission of marrying Mutalqa next day of Talaq without IDDAH. So my question is how would I know whether the Alim is saying correct or not, if there are no books translated into English/Urdu

Are there only three books of Fiqha Hanfia or there are others also. Whose book is HIDAYA, FATAWA ALAMGIRI, DURRE MUKHTAR, NASBUL RAYA, RUD UL MUKHTAR, FATAWA SHAMI, FATAWA ALAMGIRI, FATAWA QAZI KHAN, USOOL KURKHI ETC.

As regards, Hadees of Bukhari about Prophet Mohammed urinating in standing position was due to pain in his knee. Bukhari has made the baab on this and brought only this hadees. But whole umma do not urinate while standing. Then what is the wisdom of Bukhari writing this hadees only. The wisdom is urinating in sitting position is weel known among UMMA but he feared that even though if some muslim has pain in knee he is free to urinate while standing provided the earth is moist so that drops should not come back to his clothes. Another reason was the place where prophet was urinating was dirty and if sat would made the cloth dirty so under abnormal condition muslim is free to urinate while standing so long as his cloth is saved from drops of urine as this is the major cause of AZAAB in QABR.

Regards

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:
:bism:
Ibn `Abd al-Barr mentions in his Jami` Bayan al-`Ilm [Vol. 1, 35], after he mentioned, alongside its sanad, a piece of news which Imam Abu Hanifa heard from Abdullah ibn al-Harith ibn al-Juz’, the Sahabi, "Ibn Sa`d, author of al-Waqidi, mentioned that Abu Hanifa saw Anas ibn Malik and Abdullah ibn al-Harith ibn al-Juz’." Counting on this, Ibn al-Juz’ is considered to have died late, and in priority, that Abu Hanifa saw Abdullah ibn Abi Awfa since he was Kufi with regards to his residence and place of death.

One of the Hadith narrated to imam Abu Hanifa by Anas ibn Malik (ra):

"Seeking of knowledge is an obligation on each and every Muslim." Reported by Abu Hanifa upon the authority of Anas ibn Malik. Many books of biography mention two chains of transmition for this Hadith.


So he met only three sahabees and how many hadees has been transmitted through him.

[amr123]

So he met only three sahabees and how many hadees has been transmitted through him.

It seems you are back to debate mode... i kindly refuse to reply :-)

:salam:

[dr.ati]

Sallams

Brother iabhortrinity . Which translation of Quran have you studied?

[dr.ati]

As far as Taqleed , if applied in real , we all act as Muqalids and Ghair Muqalids at times. If one does not know Arabic , he is doing Taqleed of the translator of Quran when reading it. The basic issue is not Taqleed though it may sound fascinating for debates. As far as Furu' is concerned , the basic aim should be that we follow the correct madhab or say the correct way which is in the light of Quran and hadith. It does not really matter if one acribes himself to a Madhab or not , at the end of the day , the issue is that how much is he following Quran and Hadith. There have been certain weaknesses in ceratin Madhahibs which have evolved in the present condition which you are castigating and i agree with you in that. I think , you should start with Aqeedah [clip]
The debate of Taqleed has been the focus of extremist madhabis and extremist La-madhabis in the Subcontinent so kindly don't waste you time in that.

[iabhortrinity]

Sallams

Brother iabhortrinity . Which translation of Quran have you studied?

Tafseer Ibn Katheer (English Publisher Darussalam)

[dr.ati]

I would also advise you to download the translation of "Al-Umdat Ul fiqh" of Imam Ibn Qudamah ra which has recently been translated into English.Its a classical book of Hanbali fiqh and InshAllah , you will find it to be nothing other than Quran and Hadith. http://kitaabun.com/shopping3/product_info.php?products_id=3564&osCsid=b0efb3eb6aa04e771b226cfea793b9f6

[iabhortrinity]

As far as Taqleed , if applied in real , we all act as Muqalids and Ghair Muqalids at times. If one does not know Arabic , he is doing Taqleed of the translator of Quran when reading it. The basic issue is not Taqleed though it may sound fascinating for debates. As far as Furu' is concerned , the basic aim should be that we follow the correct madhab or say the correct way which is in the light of Quran and hadith. It does not really matter if one acribes himself to a Madhab or not , at the end of the day , the issue is that how much is he following Quran and Hadith. There have been certain weaknesses in ceratin Madhahibs which have evolved in the present condition which you are castigating and i agree with you in that. I think , you should start with Aqeedah and i had suggested you two books. Sharah " Aqeeda wastiyya" of Shaykh Ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah and "Kitab At towheed" of Shaykh Mhamad bin Abdul Wahab. You can download them from here http://www.kalamullah.com/aqeedah.html
The debate of Taqleed has been the focus of extremist madhabis and extremist La-madhabis in the Subcontinent so kindly don't waste you time in that.


Thanks Dr Ati Sb,

I was searching your earlier link but was removed thanks for sending. In fact I was suggested much earlier to have good concept of TAOHEED by one of a scholar of very high calibre. I have registered my self with online university of Bilal Phillip. I have initially tried to get concept of TOUHEED clear in terms of TOHEED E RABOOBIYA, TOUHEED E ULUWIYA (IBADAH) AND TOUHEED E ASMA WE SIFAT.

I have AQEEDA WASTIYA written by Imam Ibn Taimya and Lo Matul Itqad by Ibn Qudama Muqdasi.

Regards,

[dr.ati]

Thanks Dr Ati Sb,

I was searching your earlier link but was removed thanks for sending. In fact I was suggested much earlier to have good concept of TAOHEED by one of a scholar of very high calibre. I have registered my self with online university of Bilal Phillip. I have initially tried to get concept of TOUHEED clear in terms of TOHEED E RABOOBIYA, TOUHEED E ULUWIYA (IBADAH) AND TOUHEED E ASMA WE SIFAT.

I have AQEEDA WASTIYA written by Imam Ibn Taimya and Lo Matul Itqad by Ibn Qudama Muqdasi.

Regards,

You have already taken the right and intelligent steps. May Allah help you in your journey.:jazak:

[abuhajira]

Brother Abu Hajira,

None of the Books of Fiqh Hanfia has been translated into English or Urdu..............


:salam:

I did not say that. I said that the classical books of usools are in arabic. Sure there are urdu translation for almost all of them. from the top of my head..

Usul ush Shaashi - get Ajmalal Hawashi . There are few others too
Nurul Anwaar - get Qootul Akhyaar

But I must again caution you, that even the translated text would not be sufficient for you to grasp the usools properly. You will STILL need some teacher to rely on to guide you through it.

When you took a teacher to learn your mathematics, why do you think that these studies will be any easier. Remember, there is something called Ilm Badeehi, knowledge which is so apparent that everyone understand. Qul Huwallahu Ahad. Say Allah is ONE. The Tauheed of Allah being One and unique.. non but Him.. is something so obvious that you would not need a scientist to convince you about it. Or atleast it shouldnt be like that. Just looking at the world tell you that. So to deduce that from Quran to make your Imaan in Tauheed is simple pimple.

But taking out fiqhi rulings is not everyones piece of treat. This is why the hadeeth says "man yaridallahu khairan fayufaqqihu fid deen".. Whosoever Allah wishes well for, He grants him FIQH of Deen". This well wishing is for selected. So what will the others do? The will follow those who have been blessed with this khair from Allah.


if this is the case how common people like me will know about Fiqha Hanfia then I do not have choice but to go to some Alim and ask him about Deen e Islam but then how would I know that what ever he is saying is correct.


How did you know that when you read the translation of the Quran, that it was translated corrcetly? or the dictionary you used to find a meaning for the word in quran was giving th correct meaning. Wouldnt it be a weak argument that you are willing to rely blindly on translation and meanings (which at many times were not even done by muslims eg Hans Wehr, E W Lanes Lexicon), which led you to change your religion.. but you are not willing to rely blindly on the scholar within the Islam. The crux is that in anycase, somewhere you will have to rely on someone. Do you think we are deceiving you? and we will guide you to corruption and hellfire? If you feel for an instant that we are crooked in our intention, what point would it be for you to be here discussing the issue with us? Which means, that upto a certain degree you do trust our judgement in what we are saying.


In Darul Uloom deoband there was an sting operation in which it was revealed that ULLEMA take exhorbitant Money and give FATAWA which suits the Person. Abbasi Khalifa paid huge amount to his Mufti demanding Fatawa for permission of marrying Mutalqa next day of Talaq without IDDAH. So my question is how would I know whether the Alim is saying correct or not, if there are no books translated into English/Urdu

The Darul Iftaa sting was proven to be a hoax. Infact the issue was concocted and the Channel had later been found guilty of it as well.

And there are HUGE number of books translated in urdu so you can benefit. But I dont expect someone to reach a candid ability of judgement between the views merely by studying translations. If you want to want to teach english literature, you cannot expect the university to hire you when you have not even studied english, much less its literature. Similarly, if you want to learn JAVA or C++, you are not expected to learn even though you have the computer and programs, but you dont know how to read the english text the guide is using! Now you say that I will get a translated text, and that translated text will tell you what? use urdu "tags" ? It will show you the english tags.. So you will be stuck with it since you have not understood the fundamental requirement to learn the objective.

an example,

aik "if and then" ka joomla banayen

How would you know what "if and then" is, if you cant even read english?


Are there only three books of Fiqha Hanfia or there are others also.

No I have given you the books for USOOLS.. that is what I am explaining to you. One is Usools. then after knowing usools you will read into the rules and figure out how those rules were deduced from the nusoos.


Whose book is HIDAYA,

It is book about Hanafi rulings. It is not an Usool Book.


FATAWA ALAMGIRI, DURRE MUKHTAR,

These are fatawa, i.e rules books. They are reference books, not study books.


NASBUL RAYA,

Is a Takhreej book for the ahadeeth of he masa'il in Hidaaya. They would squat in understanding the madhab's methodology.


RUD UL MUKHTAR, FATAWA SHAMI,

Raddul Muhtar (not MuKHtar) are suplementary notes on Durul Mukhtar which you mentioned above. All you will get here is haphazard statements which you will keep wondering how they tie in with the madhab if you have not studied usool.

Fatawa Shami is another name for Raddul Muhtar



FATAWA ALAMGIRI,

you posted it again. It is also called Fatawa Hindiya.


FATAWA QAZI KHAN,


yet another ruling book from 100's others.


USOOL KURKHI ETC.


Usool book by Allama karkhi.. and there are a few more as well. For a beginer I suggest Al Mujiz. or find some basic book on usoolud fiqh.



As regards, Hadees of Bukhari about Prophet Mohammed urinating in standing position was due to pain in his knee.


The hadeeth does not mention that he was doing so BECAUSE had pain in his knee. To make that istidlaal(deduction) you will have to rely on another narration or explanation from some sahabi or faqeeh, and that would not be in bukhari. Hence now you will have to confirm its isnaad etc etc.



Bukhari has made the baab on this and brought only this hadees.


a. Bukhari has made many babs and brought only one hadeeth. That is the way his book works. Infact most of his books is like that.
b. Bukhari himself is not from the first three generations, so for you to rely on him is itself questionable. Secondly, bukhari's baab are his fiqh. So if you are willing to take his fiqh, without knowing how he estabished his ruling, then you should have much problem accepting Imam Saheb's aqwaal. I can post ahadeeth where the deduction of bukhari is very farfetched, but that was his tarz. Remember Bukhari is not known for his fiqh, rather for authenticity of narration. Otherwise, Muslim supercedes bukhari in many aspects.
c. Can you post this baab and establish from the heading of this chapter how Imam Bukhari said that since Rasulullah :saw: was hurt in his knee he stood to urinate. I will await for this inshAllah. It will also show you that what you deem is not necessarily the case. What Bukhari claims in this heading is NOT supported by the hadeeth he presented.


But whole umma do not urinate while standing. Then what is the wisdom of Bukhari writing this hadees only. The wisdom is urinating in sitting position is weel known among UMMA but he feared that even though if some muslim has pain in knee he is free to urinate while standing provided the earth is moist so that drops should not come back to his clothes.


a. In this you have first abandoned your own usool of finding the ruling to be established in hadeeth. You did not have any hadeeth about Rasulullah :saw: ordering to sit and urinate, yet you accepted the action of "ummah" to be correct. The same Ummah follow one - one madhab, yet that doesnt become a daleel for you.
b. The wisdom which you are mentioning is what YOU think to be the wisdom. It is not established in the hadeeth of urinating, nor in the title brought by Bukhari. Why afford him such long stretch of husn dhan. If you are willing to give Imam Bukhari that much benefit, and wisdom, then much more should be given to Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Malik r.a. Those issues where they issued a ruling for which aparently you do not have a daleel, we should find similar wisdom for them.correct?


Another reason was the place where prophet was urinating was dirty and if sat would made the cloth dirty so under abnormal condition muslim is free to urinate while standing so long as his cloth is saved from drops of urine as this is the major cause of AZAAB in QABR.
Regards

All this that you are doing is "deducing" from the wordings of the hadeeth without knowing whether what you are deducing is right or not. The reason for what I say will become apparent when you present the baab which Imam Bukhari made for this hadeeth. Please post that hadeeth, and I will elaborate further.

:ws:

[rqsnnt]

...

You mentioned about the Hadith not completing Quran in less than 3 days. Can you be sure if it was said about reciting Quran in the prayer or outside the prayer? No we cannot. We laymen dont know the complete circumstances of the Hadith or if there is any other Hadith permitting it in prayer etc. There are lots of such issues. So the most logic solution is to seek knowledge from reliable people. They are the scholars. :-)
....

:bism:
:salam:


Brother is there any reference from out Prophet(SAW) about reciting FULL Quran in the prayer?

:jazak:

[Zahed]

Now as regards, finishing Koran in Salah or out of Salah, If any SAHABA has finished KORAn in one day inside SALAH that means the hadees means that Prophet prohibited to finish KORAN in one day only out of SALAH and not inside SALAH. We do not have any example that any of Sahaba completed KORAn in one day inside SALAH so the HUKM of not completing KORAN in one day is AAM for both inside salah and outside salah. Moreover, I asked you to please give me the reference of this event from authentic Chains of Narrators and link this event to Imam Abu Hanifa.




:salam:

Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) used to recite the whole Quran in his Tahajjud salah. It is mentioned in the volume 4 of "Hayatus Sahabah" by Moulana Yusuf Kandhlavi :rahma:. He collected this incident from different narrations from Tabarani, Abu Nu'aiym and Baihaqi.

And brother, please try to understand what members are saying instead of debating and as brother Abu Tamim has said- Please don't follow pre planned agenda. (If there's any).

May Allah :taala: guide us. Aameen!

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

I did not say that. I said that the classical books of usools are in arabic. Sure there are urdu translation for almost all of them. from the top of my head..

Usul ush Shaashi - get Ajmalal Hawashi . There are few others too
Nurul Anwaar - get Qootul Akhyaar

But I must again caution you, that even the translated text would not be sufficient for you to grasp the usools properly. You will STILL need some teacher to rely on to guide you through it.

When you took a teacher to learn your mathematics, why do you think that these studies will be any easier. Remember, there is something called Ilm Badeehi, knowledge which is so apparent that everyone understand. Qul Huwallahu Ahad. Say Allah is ONE. The Tauheed of Allah being One and unique.. non but Him.. is something so obvious that you would not need a scientist to convince you about it. Or atleast it shouldnt be like that. Just looking at the world tell you that. So to deduce that from Quran to make your Imaan in Tauheed is simple pimple.

But taking out fiqhi rulings is not everyones piece of treat. This is why the hadeeth says "man yaridallahu khairan fayufaqqihu fid deen".. Whosoever Allah wishes well for, He grants him FIQH of Deen". This well wishing is for selected. So what will the others do? The will follow those who have been blessed with this khair from Allah.



How did you know that when you read the translation of the Quran, that it was translated corrcetly? or the dictionary you used to find a meaning for the word in quran was giving th correct meaning. Wouldnt it be a weak argument that you are willing to rely blindly on translation and meanings (which at many times were not even done by muslims eg Hans Wehr, E W Lanes Lexicon), which led you to change your religion.. but you are not willing to rely blindly on the scholar within the Islam. The crux is that in anycase, somewhere you will have to rely on someone. Do you think we are deceiving you? and we will guide you to corruption and hellfire? If you feel for an instant that we are crooked in our intention, what point would it be for you to be here discussing the issue with us? Which means, that upto a certain degree you do trust our judgement in what we are saying.



The Darul Iftaa sting was proven to be a hoax. Infact the issue was concocted and the Channel had later been found guilty of it as well.

And there are HUGE number of books translated in urdu so you can benefit. But I dont expect someone to reach a candid ability of judgement between the views merely by studying translations. If you want to want to teach english literature, you cannot expect the university to hire you when you have not even studied english, much less its literature. Similarly, if you want to learn JAVA or C++, you are not expected to learn even though you have the computer and programs, but you dont know how to read the english text the guide is using! Now you say that I will get a translated text, and that translated text will tell you what? use urdu "tags" ? It will show you the english tags.. So you will be stuck with it since you have not understood the fundamental requirement to learn the objective.

an example,

aik "if and then" ka joomla banayen

How would you know what "if and then" is, if you cant even read english?



No I have given you the books for USOOLS.. that is what I am explaining to you. One is Usools. then after knowing usools you will read into the rules and figure out how those rules were deduced from the nusoos.



It is book about Hanafi rulings. It is not an Usool Book.



These are fatawa, i.e rules books. They are reference books, not study books.



Is a Takhreej book for the ahadeeth of he masa'il in Hidaaya. They would squat in understanding the madhab's methodology.



Raddul Muhtar (not MuKHtar) are suplementary notes on Durul Mukhtar which you mentioned above. All you will get here is haphazard statements which you will keep wondering how they tie in with the madhab if you have not studied usool.

Fatawa Shami is another name for Raddul Muhtar




you posted it again. It is also called Fatawa Hindiya.



yet another ruling book from 100's others.



Usool book by Allama karkhi.. and there are a few more as well. For a beginer I suggest Al Mujiz. or find some basic book on usoolud fiqh.




The hadeeth does not mention that he was doing so BECAUSE had pain in his knee. To make that istidlaal(deduction) you will have to rely on another narration or explanation from some sahabi or faqeeh, and that would not be in bukhari. Hence now you will have to confirm its isnaad etc etc.




a. Bukhari has made many babs and brought only one hadeeth. That is the way his book works. Infact most of his books is like that.
b. Bukhari himself is not from the first three generations, so for you to rely on him is itself questionable. Secondly, bukhari's baab are his fiqh. So if you are willing to take his fiqh, without knowing how he estabished his ruling, then you should have much problem accepting Imam Saheb's aqwaal. I can post ahadeeth where the deduction of bukhari is very farfetched, but that was his tarz. Remember Bukhari is not known for his fiqh, rather for authenticity of narration. Otherwise, Muslim supercedes bukhari in many aspects.
c. Can you post this baab and establish from the heading of this chapter how Imam Bukhari said that since Rasulullah :saw: was hurt in his knee he stood to urinate. I will await for this inshAllah. It will also show you that what you deem is not necessarily the case. What Bukhari claims in this heading is NOT supported by the hadeeth he presented.



a. In this you have first abandoned your own usool of finding the ruling to be established in hadeeth. You did not have any hadeeth about Rasulullah :saw: ordering to sit and urinate, yet you accepted the action of "ummah" to be correct. The same Ummah follow one - one madhab, yet that doesnt become a daleel for you.
b. The wisdom which you are mentioning is what YOU think to be the wisdom. It is not established in the hadeeth of urinating, nor in the title brought by Bukhari. Why afford him such long stretch of husn dhan. If you are willing to give Imam Bukhari that much benefit, and wisdom, then much more should be given to Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Malik r.a. Those issues where they issued a ruling for which aparently you do not have a daleel, we should find similar wisdom for them.correct?



All this that you are doing is "deducing" from the wordings of the hadeeth without knowing whether what you are deducing is right or not. The reason for what I say will become apparent when you present the baab which Imam Bukhari made for this hadeeth. Please post that hadeeth, and I will elaborate further.

:ws:

Hey Brother,
Where have you been so long. You have almost convinced me to rely upon Imam Abu Hanifa's IJTEHAD and follow him blindly without referring to SIHA SITTA, Mawatta Imam Malik, Musnad Ahmed, Imam Sayooti's Jama Al Jawama, Musnad Ibn Abi Shaiba, Musnad Al Tayalsi, Musnad Abd Bin Hameed, Musannif Abdur Razzaq, Kutub Baihqi, Tabrani, Tahawi et al.

I have also vowed to learn Islam in right perspective. When I can be a Master in Water Treatment, when I can fully understand Refinery Process and Naphta Cracking System, When I can fully understand Steel Process How the ores are extracted, the process of Sintering, The process of Blast Furnace and its function, the process of Linz Donawitz, Basic Oxygen Furnace, when I can learn Continuous Casting Process, when I can learn Hot Rolling Mill Process, Cold Rolling Mill Process, When I can learn and teach the subject of Management and Organisational Behaviour; Why I can't learn ISLAM in its right perspective. How much time it will take 10 Years 20 Years I can devote my whole life in learning Islam and finding truth. If the Truth is lying in Madhab Hanfia let me research and accept it, may be not now, in ten years time, twenty years time no problem for me.

Other way is Brother let me rely on you and let me accept MADHAB HANFIA But before I accept Imam Abu Hanifa as my Imam and live rest of my life as HANAFI as common person like me can never ever understand what is Deen E Islam and one can live his life on Koran and Hadees you need to assure me that if I go astray by accepting Madhab Hanfia from Deen E Haque (Koran and Hadees) then you will have to assume responsibilty of saving me from the ire of GOD of JESUS and MOSES on the day of judgement.

Secondly, I request other fellow not to reply to my thread and let Brother Abu Hajira has discussion with me on one o one basis as he is the only learned person in this portal as of now who can speak in technical terms. So rest keep quiet.

God says..........................

KAMA ARSALNA FI KUM RASOOLA MINKUM YATALU ALAIKUM AAYATENA WE YUZKEKUM WE YOAL LIMKUM ALKITAB WE HIKMAH

Meaning: We have sent a Prophet from among you who teaches you verses of Koran, who purifies you and who teaches you the Book and Hikmah

Again...................

QUL INKUMTUM TAHABBOONU ALLAH FA ATTEBE UNI YUHABBAKUM U ALLAH WE YUGHFARLAKUM ZUNU BEKUM WE ALLAH GHUFURURRAHEEM. QUL ATTEULLAH WE RASOOL FA INNA TAW LAU FAINNA ALLAH LA YUBUL KAFEREEN

Meaning: Oh Prophet Say if you really Love your GOD then follow me (Rasool) then ALLAH will love you and forgive your sins. Allah is all Merciful.

Say oh Prophet Follow GOD and Prophet then if turn back then of course GOD is not the friend of Al Kaferoon.

Based of above straight forward VERSES from GOD (WAHI) it is crystal clear that to get GOD mercy one has to follow GOD and Prophet. Further it is said that To follow Prophet is equal to follow GOD.

Now Dear Brother tell me if for any matter of chance I do not follow Prophet in the process of following IMAM ABU HANIFA hope as you said I will not be KAFEROON.

In Usool Karkhi it is written that:

If any VERSE from QURAN is against our MADHAB will be considered MOUDIL or MANSOOKH so is any HADEES.

If Hadees of Ghair Fiqh sahabi is agianst our QIYAS then QIYAS will be followed and not hadees. (Nur ul Alanwar Mullah Jeevan)


If the narrator of Hadees AML is in contrast of his narration then the AML will be HUJJAH (HASSAMI)

Who are the sahabees who are GHAIR FAQHI (ANAS and ABU HURAIRA)

Further.......

TALIMUL FIQHA AULA MIN TALLUM TAMAMUL QORAN (FATAWA QAZI KHAN AND ALAMGIRI)
Mean To learn FIQH is better than learning KORAN

And

TALAB UL AHADEES HARFAL MUFALEES (FATAWA ALAMGIRI)
Mean . Learning HADEES is the act of MUFLIS.

This clearly indicates that FIQH is one thing and KORAN and HADEES is another.

Now Please let me know in below situation what a muslim should do.........

BUKHARI vol 2 kitab nikah AND SAHEEH MUSLIM VOL 1 KITAB RAZA

SUNNAH OF PROPHET IS THAT THE ONE WHO MARRIES SECOND TIME WILL STAY WITH HIS WIFE IF VIRGIN SEVEN DAYS AND IF WIDOW THEN THREE DAYS

HIDAYA VOL 2 KITAB NIKAH
WEL QADEEMA WEL JADEEDA SUA (NEW MARRIAGE OR SECOND MARRIAGE BOTH ARE SAME)

ABU DAWOOD VOL 2 AND TIRMIDHI VOL 1

ZAKAH UL JUNAIN ZAKA UL AMMAH MEAN THE ZIBAH OF MOTHER IS THE ZIBAH OF HER FOETUS

HIDAYA KITABUL ZABAH

WE MAN NAHAR NAQA AU ZABHA BAQRA FAU JAD FI BATNEHA JUNAINA MAYA LUM YUWAKKULASHAR AULAM ASHAR (THE ONE WHO HAS ZABAH THE CAMEL OR COW AND FOUND THE FOETUS INSIDE HER STOMACH THEN THE FOETUS CAN NOT BE USED FOR EATING

MUSLIM VOL 1 KITABUL RAZA

AN UMMAL FAZAL QALAT IN NABI WE QALA LA TEHREM AL RAZA' AU ALRAZATAAN 9MEANING ONE OR TWO TIME SUCKING WILL NOT EFFECT THE RAZAAT)

HIDAYA VOL 2 KITABUL RAZA

QALEEL RAZA WE KASEERA SUA IZA HUSL FI MUDDA AL RAZA YU TAALLUQ BE HI ALTAHREEM (WHETHER SMALL AMOUNT OR LARGE AMOUNT WILL EFFECT THE RAZAT)

NISAI VOL 2 KITABUL HIBA

YURJA AHDA FI HIBA ALWALID AN WELDAH (NO ONE TAKE CAN TAKE BACK THE GIFTED ITEMS EXCEPT THE FATHER WHO CAN TAKE FROM HIS SONS

HIDAYA VOL 3 KITABUL HIBA

A PERSON CAN TAKE BACK HIS GEFT FROM ANYONE EXCEPT FROM HIS SONS.

Now Br. Abu Hajira.

The KORAN message is very clear that if you do not follow RASOOL you will be among loosers. Now here if I follow Imam ABU Hanifa I will definitely be not following Rasool. If I on the other hand follow Rasool I will not be definitely following Imam Abu Hanifa. Please let me know as an illeterate person I have no choice but to follow Imam Abu Hanifa and hope by following him I will not be questioned on the day of judgement, if I then you will save me right..........

Regards,

YUSUF

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) used to recite the whole Quran in his Tahajjud salah. It is mentioned in the volume 4 of "Hayatus Sahabah" by Moulana Yusuf Kandhlavi :rahma:. He collected this incident from different narrations from Tabarani, Abu Nu'aiym and Baihaqi.

And brother, please try to understand what members are saying instead of debating and as brother Abu Tamim has said- Please don't follow pre planned agenda. (If there's any).

May Allah :taala: guide us. Aameen!

Brother please give me reference from original book of Tabarani, Abu Nuaim, Baihqi with Hadees no.

Regards,

YUSUF

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Welcome brother Yusuf. Start your post with ASSALAMU ALAYKUM.

[Nawawi619]

As Salamu Alaykum Yusuf,


From Shaykh Nuh Keller:


The slogans we hear today about "following the Qur'an and sunna instead following the madhhabs" are wide off the mark, for everyone agrees that we must follow the Qur'an and the sunna of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). The point is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is no longer alive to personally teach us, and everything we have from him, whether the hadith or the Qur'an, has been conveyed to us through Islamic scholars. So it is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars. And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness. The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah. Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.

[abuhajira]

Hey Brother,
Where have you been so long. You have almost convinced me to rely upon Imam Abu Hanifa's IJTEHAD and follow him blindly without referring to SIHA SITTA, Mawatta Imam Malik, Musnad Ahmed, Imam Sayooti's Jama Al Jawama, Musnad Ibn Abi Shaiba, Musnad Al Tayalsi, Musnad Abd Bin Hameed, Musannif Abdur Razzaq, Kutub Baihqi, Tabrani, Tahawi et al.


:salam:

first of all, let me remind you that we will not play any intimidation games here. mentioning 10 or 15 books doesnt mean that one is wellread. I surely am not. So when I see such "banawat" I see it right away. Do not take my statements as harsh, since i rather be frank than sugar coat my responses.

When you incorrectly name raddul muhtar, when you posted fatawa shami and raddul muhtar in the same breath, showing them two different books, it showed right then that you have no clue what is what in hanafi madhab. So we rather not try to make belief, and instead make a niyah to learn and then proceed. believe me, I myself learn a lot from posting and reading these posts. There are many many things I have no idea about, sometime simply because I have little interest in the subject matter or sometimes I have not read it up.

Now with that settled, I asked you to seek an Alim you trust and follow his advice by relying on him. Did I tell you to follow Imam Abu Hanifa r.a? Nope. Some one already mentioned that in your area there are more shafi'i. Hence maybe you should look for a shaf'i imam and read kutub of shafi'i usool. I have not read shafi fiqh, only beginner level. So I would not be the right person to help you.


I have also vowed to learn Islam in right perspective. When I can be a Master in Water Treatment, when I can fully understand Refinery Process and Naphta Cracking System, When I can fully understand Steel Process How the ores are extracted, the process of Sintering, The process of Blast Furnace and its function, the process of Linz Donawitz, Basic Oxygen Furnace, when I can learn Continuous Casting Process, when I can learn Hot Rolling Mill Process, Cold Rolling Mill Process, When I can learn and teach the subject of Management and Organisational Behaviour; Why I can't learn ISLAM in its right perspective. How much time it will take 10 Years 20 Years I can devote my whole life in learning Islam and finding truth. If the Truth is lying in Madhab Hanfia let me research and accept it, may be not now, in ten years time, twenty years time no problem for me.


a. Again there was no need of mentioning your feats. Many more have done far much more than you and yet when they sit with Alim, they find it hard to understand how hadeeth mutawatira can over rule Quranic injunction. last winter I met one very nice brother who had 2+ PhDs, 3 Masters and a few Bachelors under his belt. YET I had to sit with him and explain to him how Salatus Tasbeeh is to be read. Alhamdulilah you are well read in cecular education, may Allah increase in that. As for deen, it IS a life long task. It is NOT a 10 year or 20 years task.

b. I also did not claim that Truth lies in Madhab Hanfia. According to Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, the Haq is within the four established madhahib. In most cases I can try my best and explain the Hanafi deduction of some ruling, but that cleary does not mean since I may not do so in some mas'ala there is no appropriate deduction of that mas'ala within hanafi madhab. Me not knowing of something doesnt establishes its absence.

If you are willing to spend time, please take your time and study deen at an institute. I will not even ask you to go for deobandi madrasah. If your talab is sadiq, I trust you will make the decision what you are meant to make. So first step.. learn arabic. You can either do it at a madrasah.. or you can go to one of universities to learn arabic. I have met brother who have approached it both ways.


Other way is Brother let me rely on you and let me accept MADHAB HANFIA But before I accept Imam Abu Hanifa as my Imam and live rest of my life as HANAFI as common person like me can never ever understand what is Deen E Islam and one can live his life on Koran and Hadees you need to assure me that if I go astray by accepting Madhab Hanfia from Deen E Haque (Koran and Hadees) then you will have to assume responsibilty of saving me from the ire of GOD of JESUS and MOSES on the day of judgement.

a. You may indeed follow Hanafi Madhab, but not out of seeking sancturary and hedging of your deeds, rather in a hope to follow Rasulullah :saw: and Ahkaam of Deen as understood and established from Quran and Sunnah in the Madhab Hanafia..

b. I can definitely vouch that Hanafiya, Malikiya, Shafi'iya and Hanbaliyyah are following the Quran and Sunnah. If you follow proper madhabi ruling from these, by choosing an appropriate Alim or Mufti as your guide, you will secure yourself from fire of Rabu Musa wa eesa wa Muhammah :saw:. What I cannot do is give you some sort of my word that I will save you on day of qiyama, arey miya udher to nafsi nafsi hai.. I will worry to find Nabi :saw: shifa'a myself. But as far as the issue of being following the guided , saved group.. I can assure you it will be in these four madhahib.


Secondly, I request other fellow not to reply to my thread and let Brother Abu Hajira has discussion with me on one o one basis as he is the only learned person in this portal as of now who can speak in technical terms. So rest keep quiet.


hmm, okay. I will offer you the same deal I offer to everyone. No distinction for you. As long as I feel that your motive is to learn here and the discussion is as that of a seeker seeking clarification, I will engage with you. When I feel that your motive is infact to argue, I will turn my back to you as I dont wish to waste my time.


KAMA ARSALNA FI KUM RASOOLA MINKUM YATALU ALAIKUM AAYATENA WE YUZKEKUM WE YOAL LIMKUM ALKITAB WE HIKMAH


Next time, either copy and paste the arabic, or just post the translation with reference to surah and verse. No need for transliteration. When I post any ibarah, I will not take my time to translate unless I feel necessary.


Based of above straight forward VERSES from GOD (WAHI) it is crystal clear that to get GOD mercy one has to follow GOD and Prophet. Further it is said that To follow Prophet is equal to follow GOD.

Now Dear Brother tell me if for any matter of chance I do not follow Prophet in the process of following IMAM ABU HANIFA hope as you said I will not be KAFEROON.

a. That would be under the assumption that what Imam Abu Hanifa r.a has recommended is contrary to what Rasulullah :saw: commanded to follow, i.e it is not based on Usools of Shar'iyyah. In ibn katheer this mukhalifa is the tareeq of kufr. So in first essence it is not referring to ijtihadi umoor.

b. Your premise would also further assume that following the deductions made by anyone other than Rasulullah from the Usools of Shariah are equivillant to NOT following Rasulullah :saw:. Since you place the doubt in the readers mind before hand that it may have a chance of i'raad from the ita'a of Nabi :saw:. If anyone had that fair choice of making such claim then it should have been those Yamenis who received Sayiduna Jabir bin Abdilla r.a who deduced rulings as he deemed fit from the usools of shariah WHILE Rasulullah :saw: was alive. Hence, your premise is only effective if Abu Hanifa is understood by the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah to have deviated from the main course.

c.Finally it also begs the question that Hanafiya is not solely the opinion of Imam Saheb. I am sure someone has already explained that to you. It is a rigorous body of Mujtahideen who would conclude on a mas'ala. Many a time with difference where there would be another group of mujtahideen who would make tarjeeh etc. So the systemic approach of deducing a ruling like hanafiya is not necessary matchable by a lone person.

d. In your premise of attributing an ijtihadi mistake of hanafiya to "kafiroon" you have infact made takfeer of a chunk of ummah. For example if in one mas'ala Hanafiya says "A" and Maliki says "B", and you say if A doesnt correspond to Rasulullah :saw: command while B does, then ALL those who follow A are effectively Kafirs for not following Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wasallam. Obviously this line of thinking is fishy by it sheer appearence. Hence, know that in matters of ijtihaad where Hanafiya said A while Maliki said B, and the reality of matter be such that the truth of mas'ala was C which was infact the Shafi'i opinion, THEN A, B will become ijtihadi mistakes. In this case the Mujtahid to do mistake gets 1 reward, and the one to get the correct understanding gets 2 rewards. However, in the sigh of Allah ALL have followed the commandment of Allah and his Rasul salallahu alayhi wasallam, since the answers A,B,C are all derived from Quran and Sunnah. And the muqallid has relied on those mujtahids by following the Ayah "Ask the people of knowledge if ye do not know.".


In Usool Karkhi it is written that:

If any VERSE from QURAN is against our MADHAB will be considered MOUDIL or MANSOOKH so is any HADEES.


Next time, make sure to cite a reference. The issue being discussed is with daleel for it being mansookh or marjooh (NOT Moudil).

The example is the share from booty for the Rasulullah and Zawil Qurba. Ayat is sareeh in its hukm that a portion is to go to Rasul and Zawil Qurba.. But hanafi ruling is that it doesnt go to them. So we say that the hukm of the ayah is mansookh. BUT we dont just say that out of our back pocket! There has to be some indication for that. We say that this share became mansukh with the ijmaa of Sahaba in time of Abu Bakr r.a. This is where the ayah came in mukhalafah of hanafi opinion, so the ayah was taken as mansookh BECAUSE there was a qareena to do so.

But some one gave you wrong information from Usul Karkhi. because the above statement doesnt come just like that..


28-الْأَصْلُ: أَنَّ كُلَّ آيَةٍ تُخَالِفُ قَوْلَ أَصْحَابِنَا فَإِنَّهَُا تُحْمَلُ عَلَى النَّسْخِ أَوْ عَلَى التَّرْجِيْحِ.وَالْأَوْلَى أَنْ تُحْمَلَ عَلَى التَّأْوِيْلِ مِنْ جِهَةِ التَّوْفِِيْقِ.

Whoever filled your ears, did not tell you the red part. There is a tarteeb which is followed. If such contradiction between the ayah and ruling is found, then first step would be to reconcile it with ta'weel and if there is no tatbeeq then the issue of naskh will be seen. Before giving an example of this, I also feel that you do not comprehend the term "ashabina". The ashabina (our companions) is NOT refering to amr, bakr or zaid rather referring to the eminent ulama and fuqaha of the time. So if eminent fuqaha all have an opinion which is contrasting a nass, there has to be a reason for it. If NO reason can be found for such as some tatbeeq, ta'weel then there must be some reason why the ayat is not being made amal by the leading ulama. We will then look for reason of its naskh. IF the case is such that its not ashabina, rather one alim has an opinion which is contradicting quran while other jamhur is following the ruling of that qur'an, then the opinion of that one loner will become marjuh.

An example of Ta'weel would be that one of the requirement of salah is to face qibla, but if one does not know the position of qibla, then how will he fulfil this condition? according to hanafiyyah he will apply discretion, i.e taharri. This is the ruling of hanafiya while the ayah gives the direct command to face qible. How do we reconcile this? We say that that in such case taharri is also from among the commandments and an indication is from the ta'weel of the ayah 2:144 (where you face is the countenance of Allah).

I have tried to give as much explanation as I could for this. I hope it satisfies, if it doesnt then my further explanation will also not be sufficient.

Similar explanation will be there for the hadeeth part, but I feel aqalmand key liyay ishara kaafi hai.


If Hadees of Ghair Fiqh sahabi is agianst our QIYAS then QIYAS will be followed and not hadees. (Nur ul Alanwar Mullah Jeevan)


Please note that I have only tackled the Usul Karkhi's ibarat. I can try and start explaning all the remaining as well. BUT I will approach the issue differently.

While I will do that, note tat Imam Abu Hanifa r.a is perhaps the most strict in holding onto hadeeth. One can read on it among the Rasa'il of Abdul Hai Lakhnawi. especially Al Ajwabatul Kamila lil as'ila ashara kamila. He has explained in detail with examples how Imam Saheb would prefer week hadeeth over Qiyas.

Now with regards to above ibarah. I want you to post the actual ibarah of Nurul Anwar , with the page number and the maktaba of its print. Also cite the context and slightly (in a one paragraph) detail out the mas'ala being discussed. THEN inshAllah I will clear out the remaining confusion.

As for the rest of the references you have given, I have seen them before. They are typical onslaught from Ahl e Hadeeth. So I will not waste time, but I will ask you to provide in your NEXT post by tomorrow... (please NOTE I will regard you as dishonest in your endeavour if you do not post what I require of you by tomorrow)

So, internet is filled with anti-hanafi sentiments from many salafi and ahl e hadeeth wanabe mujtahids. BUT I want you to post 10 masa'il which are contrary to Quran and hadeeth from Maliki and Hanbali Madhab. NOT Hanafi and NOT Shafi'i. This will tell me whether your have issue with hanafiya or with madhab as such. If you dont know of such masa'il then why target hanafiya for this?

InshAllah once we have done this, we will revert to your confusions in those ibaraat and then tackle them together inshAllah.

:ws:

[iabhortrinity]

:salam:

first of all, let me remind you that we will not play any intimidation games here. mentioning 10 or 15 books doesnt mean that one is wellread. I surely am not. So when I see such "banawat" I see it right away. Do not take my statements as harsh, since i rather be frank than sugar coat my responses.

When you incorrectly name raddul muhtar, when you posted fatawa shami and raddul muhtar in the same breath, showing them two different books, it showed right then that you have no clue what is what in hanafi madhab. So we rather not try to make belief, and instead make a niyah to learn and then proceed. believe me, I myself learn a lot from posting and reading these posts. There are many many things I have no idea about, sometime simply because I have little interest in the subject matter or sometimes I have not read it up.

Now with that settled, I asked you to seek an Alim you trust and follow his advice by relying on him. Did I tell you to follow Imam Abu Hanifa r.a? Nope. Some one already mentioned that in your area there are more shafi'i. Hence maybe you should look for a shaf'i imam and read kutub of shafi'i usool. I have not read shafi fiqh, only beginner level. So I would not be the right person to help you.



a. Again there was no need of mentioning your feats. Many more have done far much more than you and yet when they sit with Alim, they find it hard to understand how hadeeth mutawatira can over rule Quranic injunction. last winter I met one very nice brother who had 2+ PhDs, 3 Masters and a few Bachelors under his belt. YET I had to sit with him and explain to him how Salatus Tasbeeh is to be read. Alhamdulilah you are well read in cecular education, may Allah increase in that. As for deen, it IS a life long task. It is NOT a 10 year or 20 years task.

b. I also did not claim that Truth lies in Madhab Hanfia. According to Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, the Haq is within the four established madhahib. In most cases I can try my best and explain the Hanafi deduction of some ruling, but that cleary does not mean since I may not do so in some mas'ala there is no appropriate deduction of that mas'ala within hanafi madhab. Me not knowing of something doesnt establishes its absence.

If you are willing to spend time, please take your time and study deen at an institute. I will not even ask you to go for deobandi madrasah. If your talab is sadiq, I trust you will make the decision what you are meant to make. So first step.. learn arabic. You can either do it at a madrasah.. or you can go to one of universities to learn arabic. I have met brother who have approached it both ways.



a. You may indeed follow Hanafi Madhab, but not out of seeking sancturary and hedging of your deeds, rather in a hope to follow Rasulullah :saw: and Ahkaam of Deen as understood and established from Quran and Sunnah in the Madhab Hanafia..

b. I can definitely vouch that Hanafiya, Malikiya, Shafi'iya and Hanbaliyyah are following the Quran and Sunnah. If you follow proper madhabi ruling from these, by choosing an appropriate Alim or Mufti as your guide, you will secure yourself from fire of Rabu Musa wa eesa wa Muhammah :saw:. What I cannot do is give you some sort of my word that I will save you on day of qiyama, arey miya udher to nafsi nafsi hai.. I will worry to find Nabi :saw: shifa'a myself. But as far as the issue of being following the guided , saved group.. I can assure you it will be in these four madhahib.

hmm, okay. I will offer you the same deal I offer to everyone. No distinction for you. As long as I feel that your motive is to learn here and the discussion is as that of a seeker seeking clarification, I will engage with you. When I feel that your motive is infact to argue, I will turn my back to you as I dont wish to waste my time.



Next time, either copy and paste the arabic, or just post the translation with reference to surah and verse. No need for transliteration. When I post any ibarah, I will not take my time to translate unless I feel necessary.



a. That would be under the assumption that what Imam Abu Hanifa r.a has recommended is contrary to what Rasulullah :saw: commanded to follow, i.e it is not based on Usools of Shar'iyyah. In ibn katheer this mukhalifa is the tareeq of kufr. So in first essence it is not referring to ijtihadi umoor.

b. Your premise would also further assume that following the deductions made by anyone other than Rasulullah from the Usools of Shariah are equivillant to NOT following Rasulullah :saw:. Since you place the doubt in the readers mind before hand that it may have a chance of i'raad from the ita'a of Nabi :saw:. If anyone had that fair choice of making such claim then it should have been those Yamenis who received Sayiduna Jabir bin Abdilla r.a who deduced rulings as he deemed fit from the usools of shariah WHILE Rasulullah :saw: was alive. Hence, your premise is only effective if Abu Hanifa is understood by the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah to have deviated from the main course.

c.Finally it also begs the question that Hanafiya is not solely the opinion of Imam Saheb. I am sure someone has already explained that to you. It is a rigorous body of Mujtahideen who would conclude on a mas'ala. Many a time with difference where there would be another group of mujtahideen who would make tarjeeh etc. So the systemic approach of deducing a ruling like hanafiya is not necessary matchable by a lone person.

d. In your premise of attributing an ijtihadi mistake of hanafiya to "kafiroon" you have infact made takfeer of a chunk of ummah. For example if in one mas'ala Hanafiya says "A" and Maliki says "B", and you say if A doesnt correspond to Rasulullah :saw: command while B does, then ALL those who follow A are effectively Kafirs for not following Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wasallam. Obviously this line of thinking is fishy by it sheer appearence. Hence, know that in matters of ijtihaad where Hanafiya said A while Maliki said B, and the reality of matter be such that the truth of mas'ala was C which was infact the Shafi'i opinion, THEN A, B will become ijtihadi mistakes. In this case the Mujtahid to do mistake gets 1 reward, and the one to get the correct understanding gets 2 rewards. However, in the sigh of Allah ALL have followed the commandment of Allah and his Rasul salallahu alayhi wasallam, since the answers A,B,C are all derived from Quran and Sunnah. And the muqallid has relied on those mujtahids by following the Ayah "Ask the people of knowledge if ye do not know.".



Next time, make sure to cite a reference. The issue being discussed is with daleel for it being mansookh or marjooh (NOT Moudil).

The example is the share from booty for the Rasulullah and Zawil Qurba. Ayat is sareeh in its hukm that a portion is to go to Rasul and Zawil Qurba.. But hanafi ruling is that it doesnt go to them. So we say that the hukm of the ayah is mansookh. BUT we dont just say that out of our back pocket! There has to be some indication for that. We say that this share became mansukh with the ijmaa of Sahaba in time of Abu Bakr r.a. This is where the ayah came in mukhalafah of hanafi opinion, so the ayah was taken as mansookh BECAUSE there was a qareena to do so.

But some one gave you wrong information from Usul Karkhi. because the above statement doesnt come just like that..


28-الْأَصْلُ: أَنَّ كُلَّ آيَةٍ تُخَالِفُ قَوْلَ أَصْحَابِنَا فَإِنَّهَُا تُحْمَلُ عَلَى النَّسْخِ أَوْ عَلَى التَّرْجِيْحِ.وَالْأَوْلَى أَنْ تُحْمَلَ عَلَى التَّأْوِيْلِ مِنْ جِهَةِ التَّوْفِِيْقِ.

Whoever filled your ears, did not tell you the red part. There is a tarteeb which is followed. If such contradiction between the ayah and ruling is found, then first step would be to reconcile it with ta'weel and if there is no tatbeeq then the issue of naskh will be seen. Before giving an example of this, I also feel that you do not comprehend the term "ashabina". The ashabina (our companions) is NOT refering to amr, bakr or zaid rather referring to the eminent ulama and fuqaha of the time. So if eminent fuqaha all have an opinion which is contrasting a nass, there has to be a reason for it. If NO reason can be found for such as some tatbeeq, ta'weel then there must be some reason why the ayat is not being made amal by the leading ulama. We will then look for reason of its naskh. IF the case is such that its not ashabina, rather one alim has an opinion which is contradicting quran while other jamhur is following the ruling of that qur'an, then the opinion of that one loner will become marjuh.

An example of Ta'weel would be that one of the requirement of salah is to face qibla, but if one does not know the position of qibla, then how will he fulfil this condition? according to hanafiyyah he will apply discretion, i.e taharri. This is the ruling of hanafiya while the ayah gives the direct command to face qible. How do we reconcile this? We say that that in such case taharri is also from among the commandments and an indication is from the ta'weel of the ayah 2:144 (where you face is the countenance of Allah).

I have tried to give as much explanation as I could for this. I hope it satisfies, if it doesnt then my further explanation will also not be sufficient.

Similar explanation will be there for the hadeeth part, but I feel aqalmand key liyay ishara kaafi hai.



Please note that I have only tackled the Usul Karkhi's ibarat. I can try and start explaning all the remaining as well. BUT I will approach the issue differently.

While I will do that, note tat Imam Abu Hanifa r.a is perhaps the most strict in holding onto hadeeth. One can read on it among the Rasa'il of Abdul Hai Lakhnawi. especially Al Ajwabatul Kamila lil as'ila ashara kamila. He has explained in detail with examples how Imam Saheb would prefer week hadeeth over Qiyas.

Now with regards to above ibarah. I want you to post the actual ibarah of Nurul Anwar , with the page number and the maktaba of its print. Also cite the context and slightly (in a one paragraph) detail out the mas'ala being discussed. THEN inshAllah I will clear out the remaining confusion.

As for the rest of the references you have given, I have seen them before. They are typical onslaught from Ahl e Hadeeth. So I will not waste time, but I will ask you to provide in your NEXT post by tomorrow... (please NOTE I will regard you as dishonest in your endeavour if you do not post what I require of you by tomorrow)

So, internet is filled with anti-hanafi sentiments from many salafi and ahl e hadeeth wanabe mujtahids. BUT I want you to post 10 masa'il which are contrary to Quran and hadeeth from Maliki and Hanbali Madhab. NOT Hanafi and NOT Shafi'i. This will tell me whether your have issue with hanafiya or with madhab as such. If you dont know of such masa'il then why target hanafiya for this?

InshAllah once we have done this, we will revert to your confusions in those ibaraat and then tackle them together inshAllah.

:ws:

Dear Br. Abu Hajira,

May GOD give you more knowledge and TAQWA to understand the things in correct perspective.... my condition is very unique here, I have come out of SHIRK so what ever I follow I have to be doubly sure that I do not knowingly and unknowingly go back to same SHIRK so I am very careful in following what I want to follow. I have no grudge with any of ULEMA be it Hanafi or Shafi, or Hanbali or Maliki but my only reservation is that If I follow any of the MASAEL from him blindly I am not rejecting the order of Prophet Mohammed. This is my only fear. My inquisitive mind says that I will not be sinning if I reject the FATAWA of any person on this earth on the other hand however if I reject an order from Prophet I will be committing sin to the extent of become a KAFIR.

I have no reservation inaccepting rulings of MADHAB HANFIA, OR SHAFIA OR HANABLA OR MALIKI if it matches with KORAN and HADEES. If it does not then BOSS how can I accept this. Now you said you need to rely that those masail are correct because it has come from IMAM ABU HANIFA. The MASALA which I had given from HIDAYA atleast those are linked to IMAM ABU HANIFA with correct ISNAAD as BUKHARI has linked all his HADEES from SAHEEH BUKHARI to Prophet likewise if these MAsail are linked with IMAM ABU HANIFA atleast I can accept it. You know when HIDAYA was written. Had MUALLIF (ALI BIN ABU BAKR) linked the MASAIL with IMAM ABU HANIFA. Tell me brother................. He was born in 511. So there is gap of four centuries between Imam Abu Hanifa and Sahebe Hidaya. So can I be sure that these MASAIl are from Imam Abu Hanifa.

Hope you have understood my position. I am not here to argue with you or for that matter with any one here I have come here with the sole intention of learning ISLAM.

Brother I have example of IBN ABBAS mentione in Muqadma of Muslim and same incedent is mentioned in Muqadma of Seeratun Nabi by Syed Suleiman Nadwi (2 vol by Shibli Nomani and 4 Vol by Suleiman Nadwi) once Ibn Abbas saw the FATAWA of ALI and said that this fatawa is not from Ali it has been mistakenly attributed to him. Had he given this fatwa he would have been gone astray. This message is very clear Br. Abu Hajira that a Muslim shoild not take the things for granted.

As regards you explanation about Masala A, B, C and D, if A is correct rest are incorrect but rest are being followed by their follower if unknowingly no problem but the follower knows that A is correct but still he follows others then I think this is what rejection of Prophet is. One AJR to MUFTI agreed but for follower to follow the MASALA is boss we have enough example from JEWS and CHRISTIANS ULLEMA...........

In fact I am also the victim of same.

I did not believe DARWIN'S theory but after reading QURAN I started believing this theory to some extent. JEWS are the people who were made monkey. What was their sin their sin was TAWEEL....

They used to justify and tried to find out NASKH in GOD's ORDER not to fish on the day of Sabbah (Saturday). They used to put net on the night oif Friday and remove the net on Sunday Morning. This is what TAWEEL is. Hope you will agree with me. WAHI (QURAN + HADEES) have the priority over any other AQWAL, FATAWA and RULINGS of RESPECVTIVE MADHAB. Not the other way round you have one masala running counter with QURAN and HADEES A Muslim who fears GOD should not start justifying it from QURAN and HADEES by USOOL FIQHA.


Please tell me brother as a new muslim my approach is correct or incorrect.

[ahamed_sharif]

Hey Mr. yusuf


So, internet is filled with anti-hanafi sentiments from many salafi and ahl e hadeeth wanabe mujtahids. BUT I want you to post 10 masa'il which are contrary to Quran and hadeeth from Maliki and Hanbali Madhab. NOT Hanafi and NOT Shafi'i. This will tell me whether your have issue with hanafiya or with madhab as such. If you dont know of such masa'il then why target hanafiya for this?

InshAllah once we have done this, we will revert to your confusions in those ibaraat and then tackle them together inshAllah.

You have missed this.

REGARDS

[hmdsalahuddin]

..... WAHI (QURAN + HADEES) have the priority over any other AQWAL, FATAWA and RULINGS of RESPECVTIVE MADHAB. Not the other way round you have one masala running counter with QURAN and HADEES A Muslim who fears GOD should not start justifying it from QURAN and HADEES by USOOL FIQHA.


Please tell me brother as a new muslim my approach is correct or incorrect.

Assalamu Alikum brother Yusuf,

Can you please post which AQWAL, FATAWA and RULINGS of RESPECVTIVE MADHAB are against QURAN and HADEES?

The best thing for you is join a madarsa to learn in depth.

One cannot get knowledge just by sitting on internet. They should maked a move and go in search of it.

[iabhortrinity]

Hey Mr. yusuf



You have missed this.

REGARDS

Ok......

Sorry I missed this. But why Br. Abu Hajira want 10 Masail only from Miliki and Hanbili, What do you think about me did I read all the FIQH................Prima Facie I did not find any Masail in Maliki or in Hanbli honest addmission. Dear Brother I do not have any grudge with any body whole UMMA in entire world let me be very candid about this. My only reservation is not following GHAIR NABI with my eyes closed I have already burnt my finger I do not want to burn my finger after accepting Islam. Hope this makes sence.

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

Assalamu Alikum brother Yusuf,

Can you please post which AQWAL, FATAWA and RULINGS of RESPECVTIVE MADHAB are against QURAN and HADEES?

The best thing for you is join a madarsa to learn in depth.

One cannot get knowledge just by sitting on internet. They should maked a move and go in search of it.

Hey Dear Salahuddin,

Dont get infuriated....

I have mentioned the FATAWA in my post to Br. Abu Hajira.. Do you want separately.

Kindly give me the reference from KUTUB HADEES about just one masala from Durre Mukhtar Vol 1 Pg 31 if published by H.M Saeed Co.)

WALA AND WATI BEHIMA BILA INZAAL.

Means having sex with animal will not affect the wudu.

Further...........

AU MAYATA.........

Even with have intercourse with dead women will not affect your WUDU.

Now link these Masail with Quran, Hadees, Imam Abu Hanifa, Abu Yusuf, Mohammed Zafar or the shoura of Imam Abu Hanifa.

Regards,

[ahamed_sharif]

Ok......

Sorry I missed this. But why Br. Abu Hajira want 10 Masail only from Miliki and Hanbili, What do you think about me did I read all the FIQH................Prima Facie I did not find any Masail in Maliki or in Hanbli honest addmission. Dear Brother I do not have any grudge with any body whole UMMA in entire world let me be very candid about this. My only reservation is not following GHAIR NABI with my eyes closed I have already burnt my finger I do not want to burn my finger after accepting Islam. Hope this makes sence.

Regards,

Hey Mr Yususf.


What do you think about me did I read all the FIQH................Prima Facie I did not find any Masail in Maliki or in Hanbli honest addmission.


Correct me if I am wrong. To cut and paste you didn't get the maliki and hanbli fiqh masil from your source sites. Moulana Abu Hajira will explain to you the reason behind not finding them in those sites. Regarding your "honesty" , just read once more your own posts from the beginning in this thread.

regards.

[abuhajira]

Dear Br. Abu Hajira,


For the record, you have NOT fulfilled my request. You brough ibaraat from hanafi fiqh, yet you did NOT produce similar ibaraat from Maiki or Hanbali fiqh. This tell me that although you are surrounded by Shawafi in your area you sole means of learning is the self taught ahle hadeeth material (and I am sorry to say that too the vile one, who distort and misrepresent the actual texts to suit their means-the ibarah of karkhi was just one example of that).

After having read your response, I do not necessarily feel the urge to go at lengths to explain things.


only reservation is that If I follow any of the MASAEL from him blindly I am not rejecting the order of Prophet Mohammed. This is my only fear. My inquisitive mind says that I will not be sinning if I reject the FATAWA of any person on this earth on the other hand however if I reject an order from Prophet I will be committing sin to the extent of become a KAFIR.


No you will not be a kafir. I already gave the example of Sayiduna Jabir ibn Abdilla r.a (which was a mistake, you should have corrected me, it was Sayiduna Mu'aaz ibn Jabal r.a-another indication that you have not done your homework on this since you were already given information to read up) being sent to Yamen. Put yourself in a yameni new muslim. A messenger is sent from Rasulullah :saw: (just like Ulama being the heirs of Rasulullah :saw:). You ask that messenger a mas'ala in which he gives you are verdict.. Can you show me from your reading of the history, ONE incident where the any yameni be it under Sayiduna Mu'adh r.a or Sayiduna Ali r.a (he was also sent) say that since Nabi :saw: is available among us, I have to first confirm from him, I may disobey him in follwowing you. They did complete taqleed. No question asked.

Had you also read the book provided to you by the brothers on this thread, Taqleed ki Shar'i haysita (Legal Status of Taqleed) you would have come across those few examples where Sahaba would tell an elder sahabi straight up, that while such and such (faqih sahabi) is among us we will not take fatwa from anyone but him. This is also following without confirming whether the mufti is explaning from quran and hadeeth.

In the book that you were asked to read, you will find the naration of Umar ibn Khattab r.a assigning in his khutba whome to approach in what field. In inheritence Zaid bin Thabit r.a , in fiqh Mu'az ibn Jabal r.a , in Quran Ubay bin Ka'b r.a.. Where did the laymen at that time sought confirmation whether these sahaba are relating what Nabi :saw: has narrated. In once instance they rely on Umar r.a's judgement call, while in other instance they rely on another sahabi.

You will ALSO find narations mentioning the views of Sahaba and not the view of Rasulullah :saw: like when Muhammad ibn Sereen r.a was asked about public baths, he merely mentioned that Umar r.a did not like it.


I have no reservation inaccepting rulings of MADHAB HANFIA, OR SHAFIA OR HANABLA OR MALIKI if it matches with KORAN and HADEES.


If you as a layman can be tasked to verify whether the ruling of either of the madhab corresponds to Quran and Hadeeth, then what need is there for madhab in the first place? Miyaan if you can do that calculus calculations, then why would we advise you to go sit in the calculus class?

If EVERY citizen is able to judge whether the ruling of a certain judge was right or wrong, then what need would there be fore Legal Jurisdiction? Every one can directly sort out their rights and wrongs.

and IF some are able to decipher this right while others cannot, WHAT makes you be the one who can and others be the one who cannot. The mi'yaar for this is not personal attestation rather aam (general) acceptance and attestation, where aam refers to the Ulama. IF the Ulama get together and accept that Yusuf has reached the level of academia unparallelled by anyone, and is now a Mujtahid of the level where he can check what is correct opinion and what is incorrect opinion, then I have no qualms with that. But first get to that level.

Ml. Thanvi lived until 82 years. In his life he wrote over 1000 books in every field, YET he would not venture in assuming that he has attained the level of ijtihaad. The more you learn, the more you understand the scopes of knowledge and one inability of grasping them. But all that aside, if you achieve that level, then very well Alhamdulillah. May Allah take you to that level. AMeen


Now you said you need to rely that those masail are correct because it has come from IMAM ABU HANIFA.


Did I say that? again there are quite a few things being missed in translation. Hanafiya is like a huge organization of many Ulama. EVen in time of Imam Saheb his panel consisted of some 48 or so scholars.. Although he was entitled to his opinion, and give fatwa etc but HANAFIYA is not only his opinion.


The MASALA which I had given from HIDAYA atleast those are linked to IMAM ABU HANIFA with correct ISNAAD as BUKHARI has linked all his HADEES from SAHEEH BUKHARI to Prophet likewise if


You have complete reliance on a translated copy of a man who wrote it 1200 years ago and you cannot trust on hidaya relating from Imam Abu Haneefa and his ashaab? We understand the isnad presented by bukhari to Nabi :saw:, but where are your isnaad to Bukhari? That is a 1200 years of inqitaa (disconnection). while Marghenani's inqitaa' (if we take it as such) from Imam Abu Hanifa r.a would be 350 years or so. Do you see the falacy in this?

This is if we understand there is that inqitaa'. But no worries, just like you can rely on bukhari's text without having certainty in what he penned down (which infact his students penned down and not him, the most common one available being Imam ferabri r.a), you can definitely rely on Kutub of Fiqh (provided that the ulama have accepted their status as well). Most if not all mas'ala of Hidaya can be tracked back from different Ulama right upto Imam Muhammad Ash She'bani r.a who is known for his 6 books (zahirur riwayah)..

However one would be in the world of OZ if he has to sit with these books to start understanding Hanafi Fiqh. While the reasoning for many things as well as their tatbeeq with Quran and Ahadeeth would be there, but the ability required even to tackle these texts is of a high level. A student like myself would not be able to do justice.

More than this, there is another Isnaad which we follow. That is the tawatar of Ulama. If sufficient number of Ulama report the mas'ala as such from their teachers, and them from their teachers then that tawatur is also a sufficient authentication. This is provided that the mas'ala is not contradicted by another sufficiently weighty group of ulama presenting opposite dalail, in which case if the dalail on both side match up, then it is a genuine mukhtalaf feeh mas'ala, otherwise One will become a rajih and other marjuh or mudil qawl for not having sufficient substantiation. An example of genuine ikhtilaaf would be prawns in hanafi madhab. An example of rajih qawl making other marjuh or nonexistant would be Istimdaad etc..


Hope you have understood my position. I am not here to argue with you or for that matter with any one here I have come here with the sole intention of learning ISLAM.


Hope the clarification is sufficient.


Brother I have example of IBN ABBAS mentione in Muqadma of Muslim and same incedent is mentioned in Muqadma of Seeratun Nabi by Syed Suleiman Nadwi (2 vol by Shibli Nomani and 4 Vol by Suleiman Nadwi) once Ibn Abbas saw the FATAWA of ALI and said that this fatawa is not from Ali it has been mistakenly attributed to him. Had he given this fatwa he would have been gone astray. This message is very clear Br. Abu Hajira that a Muslim shoild not take the things for granted.


This can be answer in so many ways. I will try to limit it inshAllah.

a. Ibn Abbar r.a did NOT say that it was mistakenly attributed rather his wording clearly suggest that Tahreef has been made into the qadaa' of Ali r.a. This is also clear from Imam Muslim bringing the A'mash `an Ishaaq hadeeth (2nd riwayat after the one you have mentioned). There is difference in mistakenly attribute and interpolate or incorrectly attribute.
b. Abdullah ibn Abbas r.a was more knowledgable of the Qadaa' which Ali r.a did. So he crossed out all that he knew which Ali r.a didnt give fatwa on since it was contrary to Quran and Sunnah
c. One aspect which differenciate Ibn Abbar r.a action from you is Mu'asarah. He was the contemporary. It is like me asking you about what your friend did in school. In this case you can correct me, but if I ask you about what your grand father's friend did in his school. You cannot correct it except that you have an unequivocal link of that correct information. So Ibn Abbas r.a could correct rulings attributed to his collegues's.
d. This is a difference in isnaad at the time of sahab and in our time. In an organized madhab, the isnaad become scruitanized and established. If something ruling is established in a madhab, then the isnaad are established to those fuqaha as well. A jahil will NOT be tasked to go and re-judge the isnaad.
e. Even in the issue at hand where Ibn Abbas r.a was asked. Who asked him? Did the one who ask him made his own investigation on the matter from dozens of Ulama? He asked a mas'ala and presented an opinion he leanred, the Mufti refuted that opinion and gave a fatwa otherwise. Did this questioner then go ahead and investigated Ibn Abbas's fatwa? Do you have this information? If not, then he made taqleed. In fact it was not even a question. This was a request from Ibn Abi Mulaika r.a for Ibn Abbas r.a to write to him some rulings.
f. Ibn Abi Mulaika r.a ALSO requested in the same breath to keep somethings hidden from him. So if someone make a claim that this narration teaches authenticity and correctly transmitting, and that every statement to be scruitinized, then this request of holding back some info itself is blameworthy actions. Although, people of knowledge understand that this holding back was infact a request for not imposing so much knowledge which ibn abi mulaika r.a could not bear. IS ibn abi Mulaika r.a NOT relying on Abdullah ibn Abbass r.a in his assessment?
g. Ibn Abi Mulaika r.a did not even take this info in person rather through letters. So he also relied on a third party medium to rely on Ibn Abbad r.a to give the ruling on a matter. He did NOT ask Ibn Abbas r.a to relate what Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wasallam said in those matters. This is taqleed.


As regards you explanation about Masala A, B, C and D, if A is correct rest are incorrect but rest are being followed by their follower if unknowingly no problem


the follower is following them because he doesnt know! that is the whole point. kher, no problem so no train smash.


but the follower knows that A is correct but still he follows others then I think this is what rejection of Prophet is.


You do remember the age of incident of division in the sahaba on praying asr..How did the sahaba know whose decision was the right one? When Rasulullah :saw: did not mind the groups making ijtihaad about Asr Salah and allowed both the groups to be rightly guided.. A point to note. Essentially Two people in that groups of traveler sahabas made ijtihaad, and other followed either of the ijtihaad. So one has to be right and other wrong. But Nabi :saw: allowed both. Showing the khata of mujtahid is acceptable, AS WELL AS following of a layman of that mujtahid that did the mistake.


One AJR to MUFTI agreed but for follower to follow the MASALA is boss we have enough example from JEWS and CHRISTIANS ULLEMA...........


I have no concern with christian popery. I relaying what in understood and established by the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah. As for follower, the above example is sufficient. The other examples about Mu'az ibn Jabal ra is also sufficient.


I did not believe DARWIN'S theory but after reading QURAN I started believing this theory to some extent. JEWS are the people who were made monkey. What was their sin their sin was TAWEEL....


does not concern our topic.


is what TAWEEL is. Hope you will agree with me. WAHI (QURAN + HADEES) have the priority over any other AQWAL, FATAWA and RULINGS of RESPECVTIVE MADHAB. Not the other way round you have one masala running counter with QURAN and HADEES A Muslim who fears GOD should not start justifying it from QURAN and HADEES by USOOL FIQHA.


There is a difference in Ta'weel terminology in fiqh. and Ta'weel in manner of speaking. What you mention about jews fishing, is heela. One ta'weel is to establish the hukm, while other is to avoid a hukm. When jews made their ta'weel, their intent was to avoid fulfiling the commandment. While what ta'weel we are opting is to establish the hukm which is affirmed from Rasulullah :saw:.

In the example I gave where Allah orders us to face Qibla, and then in a condition where one is unaware of this direction, fuqaha made ta'weel of the other ayat saying that he will make taharri. Which order has been avoided? You answer, if you go one camping, It dark night, you dont know any directions. if you dont know where the qibla is.. where will you face. The quran orders you to face Qibla! Now give me your solution from Quran without resorting to any logic etc. Then establish why that Quranic solution should be given preference over the injunction of facing qibla! Do this much atleast.

IF the madhab had to make ta'weel to avoid the order, it was very wasy.. The usool is Ad Darura Tubeehul Mahduraat. Necessities over rule the prohibited. The madhab could have avoided the order of salah and said that necessity required him to face qibla, but since qibla wasnt known, praying in another direction would have directly violated the Ayat, hence the condition necessitated him NOT to pray in order to fulfil the quranic injunction. THIS would be like the ta'weel of the jews.. But here the person is being told an alternative to how to fulfil the obligation of salah and that too not worrying about that you are not facing qibla, rather at peace of mind that Quran has another injunction derived through ta'weel of the other ayah specifically for such times.

Brother, all you are doing is jumping from one branch to another. Atleast engage the issue. I assume ALL other things from my posts were acceptable to you and you didnt have any problems with them.


A Muslim who fears GOD should not start justifying it from QURAN and HADEES by USOOL FIQHA.

I find this statement of yours very inapt for a seeker. So far if you have found my answer "justifying it from QURAN and HADEES by USOOL FIQHA" then why bother engaging with me. carry on with your own deduction for all I care. Deen is equally for you to learn as it is for me to learn. If you have such preconceived notion, then so be it. I will not be like those toned down people who will meek out fearing you will declare rebellion. There are many self appointed mujtahids, so what if there will be one more. I have come at peace with all the mushy mushy sentiments. While I pray and pray really hard for you, I try my best to explain the issue and leave your end result to Allah. I will have fulfilled my obligation. I have discussed matters with Munkar e Hadeeth, Shias, Qadiyanis etc etc.. I will not take any liability of their preconceived notions. To each his own.


Please tell me brother as a new muslim my approach is correct or incorrect.

I also find this statement condescending after the whole post. Tell me, have I till now made some nonsensical talk? You have made claims from field A to field B.. most if not all only against hanafiya, yet right after you accuse other of justifying their actions from Usool Fiqh, you ask this question as if it is born of extreme innocense. Allah knows, it may very well be. But in the contextual discussion, it doesnt sound like one.

Nonetheless, the correct approach is as I have already told you. Tighten your lungi, and enroll in a madrasah or institute. Learn Arabic, learn usool, and carry on learning deen. Once you have had enough knowledge that even your teachers tell you that you have surpassed the master yoda, then you can start putting your individual ijtihadi cap. But untill then, there is an ocean you need to consume..

:ws:

[hmdsalahuddin]

Hey Dear Salahuddin,

Dont get infuriated....

I have mentioned the FATAWA in my post to Br. Abu Hajira.. Do you want separately.

Kindly give me the reference from KUTUB HADEES about just one masala from Durre Mukhtar Vol 1 Pg 31 if published by H.M Saeed Co.)

WALA AND WATI BEHIMA BILA INZAAL.

Means having sex with animal will not affect the wudu.

Further...........

AU MAYATA.........

Even with have intercourse with dead women will not affect your WUDU.

Now link these Masail with Quran, Hadees, Imam Abu Hanifa, Abu Yusuf, Mohammed Zafar or the shoura of Imam Abu Hanifa.

Regards,

I am not a scholar, and my knoledge is very very less.

and br. abu hajira is a scholar.

I wont interrupt between.

But I have one question have you read the whole Durrul Mukhtar?

[abuhajira]

I am not a scholar, and my knoledge is very very less.

and br. abu hajira is a scholar.

I wont interrupt between.

But I have one question have you read the whole Durrul Mukhtar?

:salam:

the brother cannot read arabic. Nor has he read the books which he was asked to read.

and yes you may interrupt. This is not a councelling session. Our brother is alhamdulillah a very intelligent person. He shouldnt mind good advice no matter who gives him.

In most of these posts, it is sometimes small advices from new members that always help me.

:ws:

[meelash]

Dear Br. Abu Hajira,

May GOD give you more knowledge and TAQWA to understand the things in correct perspective.... my condition is very unique here, I have come out of SHIRK so what ever I follow I have to be doubly sure that I do not knowingly and unknowingly go back to same SHIRK so I am very careful in following what I want to follow. I have no grudge with any of ULEMA be it Hanafi or Shafi, or Hanbali or Maliki but my only reservation is that If I follow any of the MASAEL from him blindly I am not rejecting the order of Prophet Mohammed. This is my only fear. My inquisitive mind says that I will not be sinning if I reject the FATAWA of any person on this earth on the other hand however if I reject an order from Prophet I will be committing sin to the extent of become a KAFIR.

I have no reservation inaccepting rulings of MADHAB HANFIA, OR SHAFIA OR HANABLA OR MALIKI if it matches with KORAN and HADEES. If it does not then BOSS how can I accept this. Now you said you need to rely that those masail are correct because it has come from IMAM ABU HANIFA. The MASALA which I had given from HIDAYA atleast those are linked to IMAM ABU HANIFA with correct ISNAAD as BUKHARI has linked all his HADEES from SAHEEH BUKHARI to Prophet likewise if these MAsail are linked with IMAM ABU HANIFA atleast I can accept it. You know when HIDAYA was written. Had MUALLIF (ALI BIN ABU BAKR) linked the MASAIL with IMAM ABU HANIFA. Tell me brother................. He was born in 511. So there is gap of four centuries between Imam Abu Hanifa and Sahebe Hidaya. So can I be sure that these MASAIl are from Imam Abu Hanifa.

Hope you have understood my position. I am not here to argue with you or for that matter with any one here I have come here with the sole intention of learning ISLAM.

Brother I have example of IBN ABBAS mentione in Muqadma of Muslim and same incedent is mentioned in Muqadma of Seeratun Nabi by Syed Suleiman Nadwi (2 vol by Shibli Nomani and 4 Vol by Suleiman Nadwi) once Ibn Abbas saw the FATAWA of ALI and said that this fatawa is not from Ali it has been mistakenly attributed to him. Had he given this fatwa he would have been gone astray. This message is very clear Br. Abu Hajira that a Muslim shoild not take the things for granted.

As regards you explanation about Masala A, B, C and D, if A is correct rest are incorrect but rest are being followed by their follower if unknowingly no problem but the follower knows that A is correct but still he follows others then I think this is what rejection of Prophet is. One AJR to MUFTI agreed but for follower to follow the MASALA is boss we have enough example from JEWS and CHRISTIANS ULLEMA...........

In fact I am also the victim of same.

I did not believe DARWIN'S theory but after reading QURAN I started believing this theory to some extent. JEWS are the people who were made monkey. What was their sin their sin was TAWEEL....

They used to justify and tried to find out NASKH in GOD's ORDER not to fish on the day of Sabbah (Saturday). They used to put net on the night oif Friday and remove the net on Sunday Morning. This is what TAWEEL is. Hope you will agree with me. WAHI (QURAN + HADEES) have the priority over any other AQWAL, FATAWA and RULINGS of RESPECVTIVE MADHAB. Not the other way round you have one masala running counter with QURAN and HADEES A Muslim who fears GOD should not start justifying it from QURAN and HADEES by USOOL FIQHA.


Please tell me brother as a new muslim my approach is correct or incorrect.

السلام عليكم,

Brother, can you please bring any evidence that the Prophet :saw: ever told us to follow Qur'aan and "HADEES"? Can you bring some evidence that the Prophet :saw: ever told us to follow Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Sittah blindly? Every objection which you have brought against the Madhaahib in this thread can be leveled just as easily against those books- they are also just collections of narrations compiled by human beings. The difference is that their authors never intended them to be used as books of fiqh by laymen like me and you.

You seem to have the idea that Sahih Bukhari is a direct product of Wahi?? But it was not even written until after the generation of the imams of the madhaahib? I wonder how you think the companions and their followers and their followers and their followers practiced Islam when there were no books of "HADEES" in existence?

I thought I had asked this question of you a couple of times previously in this thread, perhaps you had missed it....

[hmdsalahuddin]

@ br. Yusuf,

I don't think Wahi = Quran + Hadees.

Wahi = Mesaage from Allah sent to Prophets through Angel Gibrael.

( Scholars correct me if I am wrong)

[Maripat]

Mr Yusuf/Joseph, currently in Delhi, is originally from Kerala. Kerala is a state in south India, the southern most strip of western coast of Indian peninsula. This state has the highest on paper literacy in India. There is good general awareness also. It is not uncommon there that within weeks of publication of a book in the west there are public discussion on it in Kerala. It has strong RSS presence as well as competes with West Bengal in communist presence. There is strong Jamat-e-Islami and Ahl-e-Hadees presence. The Ahal-e-Sunnah are nearly eighty percent Shafei.

He is a metallurgist with management degree from XLRI. Has been reading Islam for ten years and in his magnanimity reverted to Islam. He thinks that one does not have to follow a School of Fiqh. He also thinks that this is in contradiction to following Quran and Sunnah. He conveniently switches between Qur'an and Sunnah and qur'an and Hadees. At Sunni Forum he started this thread as an innocent new comer to Islam and later on revealed that he in fact is familiar with every Islamic terminology. It is apparent that he has a Ahl-e-Hadees scholar helping him. Main target is Fiqh-e-Hanafia. Believes in Darwinism and has been inviting the forum members to his ways. Not ashamed of deception and has been impertinent to Elders and Scholars. His approach is missionary-polite but direct denial of your faith in your face.

[iabhortrinity]

السلام عليكم,

Brother, can you please bring any evidence that the Prophet :saw: ever told us to follow Qur'aan and "HADEES"? Can you bring some evidence that the Prophet :saw: ever told us to follow Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Sittah blindly? Every objection which you have brought against the Madhaahib in this thread can be leveled just as easily against those books- they are also just collections of narrations compiled by human beings. The difference is that their authors never intended them to be used as books of fiqh by laymen like me and you.

You seem to have the idea that Sahih Bukhari is a direct product of Wahi?? But it was not even written until after the generation of the imams of the madhaahib? I wonder how you think the companions and their followers and their followers and their followers practiced Islam when there were no books of "HADEES" in existence?

I thought I had asked this question of you a couple of times previously in this thread, perhaps you had missed it....

Br. Aby Hajira,

Teach him why Hadees mentioned in Saheeh Bukhari and Sahee Muslim (Saheeaen) are 100% correct. Teach him the methodolygy adapted by these two muhaddeseen are unmatched in the history of mankind. Teach him what is ASMA we RIJAAL... Even more complex technology than Steel Making.

Teach him when Muaz bin Jabal went to Yemen as a Governer He was asked by Prophet how would you give degree. He said I will give degree from Quran again asked he does not find the reference in Koran what will he do, he replied I will refer to Sunnah, if he still does not find in Sunnah then he replied I will di Ijtehad.

Teach him Prophet said..............

Taraktu Fi kum Amrain Lam Tezillu Behima Tamassekum Kitabullah we Sunnati.

Once Prophet drew a line in Masjide Nabwi and drew some more lines on both side and said Hada Sarate Mustaqeem. This is the straight path which goes to Jannah on rest there are Satan. Sahaba asked how would I identify the straight path. This is the path on which I and my Sahabas are...

No usool karkhi, no books of fiqha................simple teaching of Islam. This simple teaching infact attracts Kafir to accept Islam not HIDAYA or USOOL Karkhi which are written by some body.

How do you think brother that Sahaba, Tabeen and Taba Tabeeen practiced Islam without Fiqha Hanfia.. If they are people which Koran Takes the Guarentee (Sahaba) Razi Allah Tala Anho.. When prophet said Khairun Qaroon e Karni about first three generation how did they practiced Islam without Fiqha hanfia.

Regards,

[iabhortrinity]

@ br. Yusuf,

i don't think wahi = quran + hadees.

Wahi = mesaage from allah sent to prophets through angel gibrael.

( scholars correct me if i am wrong)

wama yantaqal hawa inna hua la wahiun hua

[meelash]

Br. Aby Hajira,

Teach him why Hadees mentioned in Saheeh Bukhari and Sahee Muslim (Saheeaen) are 100% correct. Teach him the methodolygy adapted by these two muhaddeseen are unmatched in the history of mankind. Teach him what is ASMA we RIJAAL... Even more complex technology than Steel Making.

Teach him when Muaz bin Jabal went to Yemen as a Governer He was asked by Prophet how would you give degree. He said I will give degree from Quran again asked he does not find the reference in Koran what will he do, he replied I will refer to Sunnah, if he still does not find in Sunnah then he replied I will di Ijtehad.

Teach him Prophet said..............

Taraktu Fi kum Amrain Lam Tezillu Behima Tamassekum Kitabullah we Sunnati.

Once Prophet drew a line in Masjide Nabwi and drew some more lines on both side and said Hada Sarate Mustaqeem. This is the straight path which goes to Jannah on rest there are Satan. Sahaba asked how would I identify the straight path. This is the path on which I and my Sahabas are...

No usool karkhi, no books of fiqha................simple teaching of Islam. This simple teaching infact attracts Kafir to accept Islam not HIDAYA or USOOL Karkhi which are written by some body.

How do you think brother that Sahaba, Tabeen and Taba Tabeeen practiced Islam without Fiqha Hanfia.. If they are people which Koran Takes the Guarentee (Sahaba) Razi Allah Tala Anho.. When prophet said Khairun Qaroon e Karni about first three generation how did they practiced Islam without Fiqha hanfia.

Regards,

Bro, please, open your mind and try to understand.

You liberally mix up Sunnah and Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. IT is NOT the same thing!


I can describe another way for you, perhaps it will get through to your mind:
1) Imam Abu Hanifa wrote down in a book of FIQH the SUNNAH with regards to certain fields of life that he learned from the companions of the companions of the Prophet :saw:
2) Imam Bukhari wrote down in a book of HADEETH, the HISTORICAL NARRATIONS of all periods of the Prophet :saw: life that he learned from the companions of the companions of the companions of the companions of the Prophet :saw: (approximately)

You are taking number (2), making up your own ideas about SUNNAH from it, claiming that to be superior to (1) and then, very strangely, denouncing (1) as invalid?????? It makes no sense, brother!!

[meelash]

How do you think brother that Sahaba, Tabeen and Taba Tabeeen practiced Islam without Fiqha Hanfia.. If they are people which Koran Takes the Guarentee (Sahaba) Razi Allah Tala Anho.. When prophet said Khairun Qaroon e Karni about first three generation how did they practiced Islam without Fiqha hanfia.

Regards,

I can take oath by Allah that they did not practice Islam using Sahih Bukhari. You ask how did they practice Islam? The Sahaba sat at the feet of the Messenger about whom Allah has said- He does not speak of his own desires. It is nought but divine inspiration and they learned from him. When they had a question they asked him.

The Tabe'een sat at the feet of the learned companions and they learned Islam from them similarly.

The Taba Tabe'een sat at the feet of the learned from the Tabe'een and they learned Islam from them.

The Imams of the Madhaahib were there among them.

Imam Bukhari sat at the feet of the learned students of the Imams of the Madhaahib and learned Islam from them in the SAME WAY.


Today, we also go and sit at the feet of the scholars that are in this same chain and we learn Islam from them in the SAME WAY.

Simple, easy, beautiful, and perfect.

[Sulaiman84]

wama yantaqal hawa inna hua la wahiun hua

wa maa yantiqu 'anil hawaa. in huwa illaa wah'yun yoohaa.


You are arguing about an issue that you've misunderstood already. Don't go on and mis-transliterate Aayaat in Suratun Najm, too.

[meelash]

السلام عليكم,

Everything besides this, Usool Kharki, Sahih Bukhari, Hidaaya, all these are TOOLS that the scholars use to ensure that there is no deviance over the centuries from the SUNNAH.

Does it make sense then, that we grab onto one of these tools, like Sahih Bukhari, and leave those scholars behind???

It is like if you hire a master carpenter for a large sum of money to build you a cabinet, but when he comes and you start seeing him using hammer, nails, ruler you decide you don't need him, take his tools and tell him to go home. What will you end up with?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2123/2539730934_5c81b4a41c.jpg
:cheesygri

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

Your reply to Moulana Abu Hajira is pending.

In continuation with Meelash post:

Saheeh Bukhari covers only a part of deen. My question is "From where did Imam Bukhari RA get the rest of the deen?".

[hmdsalahuddin]

wama yantaqal hawa inna hua la wahiun hua


You have misqutoed the verse as well as tranlation of Sura Najam verse 3 and 4

"My Prophet what ever he says is WAHI from GOD."

Sura Najam verse 3 and 4

53:3 - Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

53:4 - It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

One question:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 271:

Narrated Anas:
The Prophet passed by a fallen date and said, "Were it not for my doubt that this might have been given in charity, I would have eaten it." And narrated Abu Huraira the Prophet said, "I found a date-fruit fallen on my bed."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 319:

Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "O Bani Najjar! Suggest a price for your garden." Part of it was a ruin and it contained some date palms.

Now tell me is this saying of Prophet Muhammed sallallahu alaihi wasallam is WAHI?

Also check this verse of Quran and its Tafsir:

surah 66, verse 1 - O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Tafsir ibn kathir:

Al-Bukhari recorded that `Ubayd bin `Umayr said that he heard `A'ishah claiming that Allah's Messenger used to stay for a period in the house of Zaynab bint Jahsh and drink honey in her house. (She said) "Hafsah and I decided that when the Prophet entered upon either of us, we would say, `I smell Maghafir on you. Have you eaten Maghafir' When he entered upon one of us, she said that to him. He replied (to her),No, but I drank honey in the house of Zaynab bint Jahsh, and I will never drink it again.'' Then the above was revealed.

If saying of Prophet Muhammed sallallahu alaihi wasallam is WAHI then hey did Allah compassionately addresses

surah 66, vers 1 - O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[Sulaiman84]

:salam:


This excerpt is taken from Maulana Ayub Jeena's, Why is Taqlid Necessary?

References of English were posted but most Arabic references were not.



What is the difference between a Faqih and a Muhaddith?



A: A Muhaddith is one whose life is to preserve the sacred words, etc. of Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam. For this, he exerts himself in gathering the Ahadith – whether by memory as in the case of the Mutaqaddimin (i.e. early scholars), or by script as in the case of the latter scholars. He also gathers their chain of narration, and is meticulous about every vowel, letter etc. He also studies and scrutinizes the chains of narrations and the life-story of each and every narrator. All of the above sciences are subdivided into many other fields, and volumes have been compiled about each one of them. He needs to have a basic understanding of all the principles relating to the above sciences as well as a comprehensive knowledge about his field of specialization. Therefore, the Muhaddithin have been divided into many categories, and some of them have super-specialized in only one or two sciences amongst the numerous sciences of Hadith.

A Faqih (jurist) on the other hand is one whose life is devoted to understanding the purport of the sacred words of Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, and acquiring proficiency therein. In order to achieve this he should possess a basic understanding of the various sciences of Hadith as well. He also gathers Hadith and abstracts common meanings from them. He also has the ability to explain the apparent contradictions that are found in the Ahadith and untie their knots. He has a deep understanding of the Qur’an and is well versed in the various sciences of the Arabic language as well He also possesses the knowledge of the statements of the Sahabah Radhiyallahu ‘anhum, and has a comprehensive understanding of the principles of analogy.

Muhaddithin were always in larger number than the Fuqaha. And those who managed to excel in both were even fewer. Shaikh ‘Abdul-Fattah Abu Ghuddah rahimahullahu ta’ala writes: “And those who gathered between “Riwayah” [i.e. the science of Hadith] and “Dirayah” [i.e. the science of Fiqh] were very few. Hafiz Ar-Ramahurmuzi narrates in his book Al-muhdith al-fasil bain ar-rawi wal-wa’i on page 60, from Anas ibn Sirin who stated: “I came to Kufah and saw four thousand seeking Hadith, and four hundred who were studying Fiqh”…63 This is because of the complexity of Fiqh which is based on (vast) knowledge and deep understanding of the book of Allah, the Sunnah and the statements of Sahabah Radhiyallahu ‘anhum, etc. It also requires one to have the capacity to gather the various proofs, and preponderate64 amongst them; and possess a deep insight into the different purports within the Arabic language as regards “Balaghah”, “Majaz”, “Haqiqah”, “Kinayah”, etc. There is therefore no doubt about the fact regarding the ease in mere narrating for that person whose mind is focused on memorizing, absorbing and narrating only. It is for this reason that more people devoted themselves to specializing in “Riwayah”.

Whilst the Mujtahid is the one who has comprehensive knowledge of both the above fields and others as well. The term Faqih may also be used with reference to the Mujtahidin.

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63 Shaikh ‘Abdul-Fattah Rahimahullahu ta’ala quotes on the footnotes on ar-rafa’ wa at-takmeel, page 323, from tabaqat al-hanabilah of Ibn S’ad 1/329 that Muhammad ibn Yazid Al-Mustamli said: “I asked Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal about ‘Abdur-Razzaq (ibn Hammam As-San’ani, the teacher of Imam Ahmad and the author of Al-Musannaf, etc): “Did he have Fiqh?” Imam Ahmad replied: “How scarce isn’t Fiqh amongst the scholars of Hadith”.

64 i.e. determine which of the two or more proofs hold more strength. This is known as tarjih.
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A few examples are given hereunder to elucidate the difference between a Muhaddith and a Faqih.

1) Muhammad ibn ‘Abdullah ibn Al-Hakam was asked: Who is a Faqih? He replied: “That person who extracts one principle from the Qur’an or Sunnah in which he was not preceded by anyone, then divides that principle into one hundred branches”. The person asked: Who is it that has such power? In reply he said: “Muhammad ibn Idris Ash-Shafi’i (-this was the name of Imam Shafi’i Rahimahulllahu ta’ala).

2) At times Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimahullahu ta’ala used to aske about a particular mas’alah whilst in the presence of his teacher Imam A’mash Rahimahullahu ta’ala – the famous and renowned Tabi’i and scholar of Hadith and Qira’at-: “What do you state about the following…” He would give a reply according to his deductions concerning the mas’alah. Imam A’mash would then enquire from him the substantiation for his answer. The following is an example of how he used to reply: “You narrated to us from Abu Salih, who narrated from Abu Hurairah and from Abu Wa’il who narrated from ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, and from Abu Iyas from Abu Mas’ud Al-Ansari Radhiyallahu ‘anhu that Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam said: man dalla ‘ala khairin ka anna lahu mithlu ajri fa’ilihi; and you narrated to us from Abu Salih from Abu Hurairah Radhiyallahu ‘anhu that a man said to Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam: O Rasul of Allah! I was performing Salah in my home when a man entered upon me, so I felt pleasure in that. Rasulullah Salallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam replied to him: laka ajraan, ajrus sirri wa ajrul ‘alaniyah; and you narrated to us from Abul Hakam, from Huzaifah Radhiyallahu ‘anhu from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam…; and you narrated to us from Abuz-Zubair from Jabir Radhiyallahu ‘anhu from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam; and you narrated to us from Yazid Ar-Raqqashi from Anas Radhiyallahu ‘anhu from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam…”

Imam A’mash Rahimahullahu ta’ala would then exclaim: “Enough! You wish to narrate to me in one moment what I narrated to you in 100 days. I was not aware that you have practical application to all these Ahadith. O Fuqaha! You are the physicians and we [the Muhaddithin] are the dispensers. And you, O man [speaking to Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimahullahu ta’ala] have gathered both sides.

3) Muhammad ibn Samma’ah narrates: “Isa ibn Aban (a famous Muhaddith and a well known Hanafi scholar) used to perform Salah with us (in the Masjid where Imam Muhammad ibnul Hasan Rahimahullahu ta’ala-the student of Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimahullahu ta’ala and the third highest authority of the Hanafi Math-hab – used to perform Salah and thereafter have discussions on Fiqh). I used to invite him to come to Muhammad ibnul Hasan Rahimahullahu ta’ala (to learn from him). He would say in reply: “These are people who contradict Hadith”. Isa Rahimahullahu ta’ala was a scholar who had memorized a substantial amount of Hadith. One morning he performed Fajr Salah with us, and it happened to be the very same day Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala was going to conduct his discourse. I did not allow him to leave until he (also) sat in the gathering. At the close (of the discussion) I took him to Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala and said: “This is the son of your brother (in Islam) Aban ibn Sadaqah, the scribe. He is brilliant, and has the knowledge of Hadith. I invited him to you but he refused saying that we contradict Hadith”. Imam Muhammad addressed him and said: “O my son! What do see us contradicting in Hadith? Do not bear witness against us until you hear from us. So Imam Isa Rahimahullahu ta’ala asked him questions relating to twenty-five chapters of Hadith, and in each chapter Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala answered (narrating to him the Ahadith of these subjects) and would inform him of all that was abrogated therein with proof and evidence. After we left, Isa ibn Aban Rahimahullahu ta’ala turned to me and said: “There was a barrier between myself and nur (divine light), which has now been lifted! I was not aware that there existed a man in Allah’s kingdom like this, whom He has disclosed for the people”. Isa Rahimahullahu ta’ala then accompanied Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala and did not separate from him, until he became a Faqih by him”.

From the above three examples we get a vivid picture about the difference between a Faqih and a Muhaddith.68


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68 This difference has also been pointed out in the following Ahadith:

1. Imam Tirmidhi reports from Zaid ibn Thabit Radhiyallahu ‘anhu that Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam stated (during his farewell sermon, in Hajjatul Wida): “May Allah keep that person fresh and radiant who hears from us a statement and remembers it until he conveys it; as how many a carrier of Fiqh there is to one who has a greater understanding of Fiqh than him, and how many a carrier of Fiqh is not a Faqih.” The last two statements of this Hadith refers to a Muhaddith as he merely carries the knowledge of Hadith from which Fiqh is derived, and conveys it to the Faqih who then extracts its Fiqh from it.

2. Imam Bukhari (Hadith no. 79) and Muslim (Hadith no. 2282) Rahimahallahu ta’ala report from Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari Radhiyallahu ‘anhu (D: 52 AH) who narrates from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam: “The example of that knowledge and guidance which I have brought is like that of abundant rain which pours onto a stretch of land. Some areas are fertile and accept the water (by absorbing it). So they grow grass and a great deal of plants. There are also barren patches, which hold the water (above without absorbing it), through which Allah benefits the people. So they use it for drinking, to quench the thirst of others, and irrigating (their lands). A third group of patches exist that are plains, which cannot hold water (above), nor grow anything. So that is the example of the person who accomplishes “Fiqh” in the Din of Allah, and Allah benefits him with that which He sent me with. Hence, knows (learns) and teaches; and the example of him who does not lift a head (i.e. no care) to it, whereby he does not accept (absorb) that which I have been sent with”. This Hadith is further explained by Maulana Sarfaraz in his book, Al-kalamul mufid p. 71 with the following words: “The first piece of land may be regarded to be the Fuqaha, that receive the spiritual rain i.e. Qur’an and Hadith, and use it to quench (solve) the various problems experienced by man in his diverse spheres. The second piece of land is likened to the Muhaddithin, who gather the spiritual rain of Qur’an and Hadith and collect it in the dams of their memories and quench the thirst of mankind according to their expertise. The third piece of land can be likened to a lay person who is not a Muhaddith, nor a Faqih, he is not able to benefit himself (directly from this spiritual rain) and nor is he able to benefit others.”
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A Muhaddith preserves the Ahadtih of Rasulullah Sallalahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, and Faqih is the one who extracts the Din of Allah ta’ala there from. Thus, in practice, the Faqih ought to be followed. It is for this reason that Sufyan ibn ‘Uyaynah Rahimahullahu ta’ala, an illustrious scholar of Hadith, used to say: “At-tasleemu lil fuqaha salamatun fid-din” Submitting to the Fuqaha is safety in Din”. In a similar manner, Imam ‘Ali ibnul J’ad Rahimahullahu ta’ala says about the famous Muhaddith among the Tabi’in, Zuhair ibn Mu’awiyah70 that a man came to him (to learn). He asked him: “Where do you come from?” (i.e. where were you learning previously). The man replied: “from Abu Hanifah”. Imam Zuhair remarked: “Your going to Abu Hanifah for one day is more beneficial for you than staying with me for one month”.



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70 Zuhair ibn Mu’awiyah is one regarding whom Shu’aib ibn Harb said: “Zuhair is a greater Hafiz of Hadith than twenty the like of Shu’bah”, whereas Shu’bah himself was known as ‘Amirul Mu’minin fil Hadith’.
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It has also been narrated about ‘Abdullah ibn Wahb – one of the most eminent students of Imam Malik and an outstanding scholar of Hadith Rahimahumallahu ta’ala – that he stated: “I met (i.e. studied under) three hundred and sixty ‘Ulama, and had it not been for Imam Malik and Imam Laith ibn Sa’d Rahimahumallahu ta’ala I would have gone astray in knowledge”. He is also reported to have stated: “Every student of Hadith who does not have an Imam (guide/leader) in Fiqh is astray. And had it not been for Imam Malik and Laith we would have been astray”. He once said: “In ‘Ilm we followed four: two in Egypt and two in Makkah: Laith ibn Sa’d and ‘Amr ibn Harith in Egypt, and Malik and Majishun in Madinah. Had it not been for them we would have been astray”. It is probably for this reason that Hafiz Ibn ‘Abdil-Barr (D: 423 AH) Rahimahullahu ta’ala states: “As for studying Hadith in the manner that students of today study it, without obtaining some knowledge of Fiqh and contemplating its meanings (properly), this is Makruh according to a group of ‘Ulama.


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?64291-The-Difference-between-a-Faqih-and-a-Muhaddith&highlight=difference+faqih+muhaddith

[Shahed-560]

This brother in the very first post said he is not yet muslim and wanted to accept Islam. Whereas in many places he indicated that he is a muslim! Did I miss out something here? So if he is not yet a muslim and read so many books that are only prescribed for courses for Alim and Mufti, no wonder he is confused to the core, getting 'information overload' in his tiny upper part. No offence to the brother. I doubt if any sincere seeker would resort to such tone and language that he is using right from the beginning in this forum.

And if he is a muslim, he should have simply prayed the Istikhara until he gets a clear direction, as one brother advised in this forum, learning from an Alim how to do it. If he would have sincerely prayed to Allah, Allah would have showed him the way by now, instead of resorting to so many posts. That's what we the lay man do at times of our even minor need. Perhaps this brother has more confidence in his new found 'Islamic knowledge' and ability to deduce Islamic injunction, acquired from reading so many translated books than 'wasting his time' trusting Allah Subhanuhu Taala' for guidance, perhaps the same way as he thinks Mufti Taqi Usmani wasted lot of valuable resources in writing about Taleed and in turn some brother made him to waste his valuable time inviting him to read them. How can we mortal fathom whether you are sincere in seeking what you want to seek through your various posts in this forum? Guidance is only from Allah.

However, we keep Husn Dhan and trust that you are sincere in your seeking. Be careful, how you tread the path to Akhira brother. May Allah help you in your quest for the truth, if you are truthful.

[Sulaiman84]

:salam:

We keep Husnudh- dhan and at the same time we don't get fooled. Allah Knows best about the brother's intentions. SF has had its share of those posting with alterior motives.

A muslim shouldn't fall into the same mistake twice.

[meelash]

This brother in the very first post said he is not yet muslim and wanted to accept Islam. Whereas in many places he indicated that he is a muslim! Did I miss out something here? So if he is not yet a muslim and read so many books that are only prescribed for courses for Alim and Mufti, no wonder he is confused to the core, getting 'information overload' in his tiny upper part. No offence to the brother. I doubt if any sincere seeker would resort to such tone and language that he is using right from the beginning in this forum.

And if he is a muslim, he should have simply prayed the Istikhara until he gets a clear direction, as one brother advised in this forum, learning from an Alim how to do it. If he would have sincerely prayed to Allah, Allah would have showed him the way by now, instead of resorting to so many posts. That's what we the lay man do at times of our even minor need. Perhaps this brother has more confidence in his new found 'Islamic knowledge' and ability to deduce Islamic injunction, acquired from reading so many translated books than 'wasting his time' trusting Allah Subhanuhu Taala' for guidance, perhaps the same way as he thinks Mufti Taqi Usmani wasted lot of valuable resources in writing about Taleed and in turn some brother made him to waste his valuable time inviting him to read them. How can we mortal fathom whether you are sincere in seeking what you want to seek through your various posts in this forum? Guidance is only from Allah.

However, we keep Husn Dhan and trust that you are sincere in your seeking. Be careful, how you tread the path to Akhira brother. May Allah help you in your quest for the truth, if you are truthful.

I think Salaatul Istikhaara was brought up earlier in the thread and I didn't say anything... but.... I was under the impression that it is not appropriate to do Istikhaara for a matter of fiqh or something like this (I could be wrong).

Rather, the brother should read with an open mind, and it has been established and explained multiple times from multiple angles in this thread, on the basis of rationality, analogy, evidence the appropriate course.

And we pray that Allah gives all of us an open mind and heart.