Different sects today in Islam

[Badrud_Duja]

Salam,

How many different sects are there today in 2011 in Islam. There will be 73 sects but one will be the righteous one.

Do qadiyanis and Shias count as two of the 73 sects or not because they are not muslims in the first place anyway?

Please keep Barelvi and Salafi out of this thread (i dont mean the people who are barelvis or salafis) whether they are two of the 73 sects or not because it will get hijacked in to deobandi vs barelvi vs salafis debate.

[islamicresearch]

salaam, yes sects a definitely a problem, its dividing the religion ....the Quran says that creating sects is wrong as per Surah [6:159]

Then ask yourself this question, sunnis are a sect too, .......hence going against the Qurans clear commandments

Jazakallah

[umar_italy]

Salam,

How many different sects are there today in 2011 in Islam. There will be 73 sects but one will be the righteous one.

Do qadiyanis and Shias count as two of the 73 sects or not because they are not muslims in the first place anyway?

:ws:

No, they are out of the folds of Islam thus aren't counted amongst the 73 sects (except for "moderate" Shi'ahs as Zaydis who are still Muslims albeit deviants).

[amr123]

Salam,

How many different sects are there today in 2011 in Islam. There will be 73 sects but one will be the righteous one.

Do qadiyanis and Shias count as two of the 73 sects or not because they are not muslims in the first place anyway?


:ws:

I think our concept of sects does not tally with the 73 sects mentioned in the Hadith. According to our classification there are hundreds of sects. So its clear that our critirea for classification does not coincide with Allah :taala: classification.
So how will be the 73 sects be classified? Allah knows best.

[Antivirus]

:salam:

The following will be an interesting read. It seems that the 73 sects have already been identified by Shaykh Abd-al-Qahir al-Baghdadi :rahim:.



In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

1) At the outset, the Hadith referred to in your query is as follows:

أخبرنا أبو العباس قاسم بن القاسم السياري بمرو ثنا أبو الموجه حدثنا أبو عمار : ثنا الفضل بن موسى عن محمد بن عمرو عن أبي سلمة عن أبي هريرة : أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم قال : افترقت اليهود على إحدى و سبعين فرقة أو اثنتين و سبعين فرقة و النصارى مثل ذلك و تفترق أمتي على ثلاث و سبعين فرقة (المستدرك)



“Abu Hurayrah (RadiyAllahu Anhu) relates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: ‘The Jews were divided into 71 or 72 sects as were the Christians. My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects.” (Al-Mustadrak)

After Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) left this world, many ikhtilafaat (differences) began to arise amongst the Ummah. Within a period of time, the Aqeedah (religious creed, belief) of some who were misled changed from the haq (truth) and in turn they misguided others. As a result, different groups were formed. Those which had differences amongst themselves branched out into several other groups. The prediction of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) became true. Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) clearly mentioned that 72 of these sects will go to the fire of jahannam whilst 1 will be admitted to paradise. The successful group will be the one who follows the Jama’ah. This group is the followers of Ahle-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah, which will be explained further below.

Hereunder are some of the known main groups and their branches (in no particular order), most of which do not exist anymore. The following is taken from the kitab Al-Farq baynal Firaq” (The Difference Between the Differences) by ‘Abd-al-Qahir al-Baghdadi (Rahimahullah) (d. 429 AH). This book should be referred to for a further, detailed explanation on the abovementioned Hadith and the various groups with their sub-groups, including their founders and differences in beliefs.

Firstly, the Rawaafid after the time of Ali (RadiyAllahu Anhu) were divided into 4 groups: Imaamiyyah, Zaydiyyah, Kaysaaniyyah, and Ghulah. These 4 groups had sub-groups:



1) Imaamiyyah-Divided into 15 sects:

a) Muhammadiyyah

b) Baqiriyyah

c) Nawusiyyah

d) Shamaytiyyah

e) Ammariyyah

f) Ismailiyyah

g) Mubarakiyyah

h) Musawiyyah

i) Qatiyyah

j) Hishamiyyah

k) Zarariyyah

l) Yunusiyyah

m) Shaytaniyyah

n) Kamiliyyah

o) Athnaa Ashriyyah

2) Zaydiyyah-Divided into 3 sects:

a) Jarudiyyah

b) Sulaymaniyyah (also known as Jaririyyah)

c) Butriyyah



3) Kaysaniyyah-Divided into 2 sects

4) Ghulah-Divided into 6 groups:

a) Bayaniyyah

b) Mughiriyyah

c) Janahiyyah

d) Mansuriyyah

e) Khattabiyyah

f) Haluliyyah



The Khawaarij were divided into 20 sects:

a) Al-Muhkamatul Ula

b) Azaraqah

c) Najadaat

d) Safriyyah

e) Ajaradah

f) Khazimiyyah

g) Shu’aybiyyah

h) Khalfiyyah

i) Ma’lumiyyah and Majhuliyyah

j) Sultiyyah

k) Hamziyyah

l) Thaalabah

m) Akhnasiyyah

n) Shaybaniyyah

o) Rashidiyyah

p) Mukarramiyyah

q) Ibadiyyah

r) Hafsiyyah

s) Harithiyyah

t) Shabibiyyah



The Qadariyyah-Mu’tazilah ‘anil Haq were divided into 18 sects:

a) Waasiliyyah

b) Umrawiyyah

c) Hadhliyyah

d) Nizamiyyah

e) Aswariyyah

f) Muammariyyah

g) Bishriyyah

h) Hishamiyyah

i) Murdariyyah

j) Jafaerriyyah

k) Iskafiyyah

l) Thamamiyyah

m) Jahidhiyyah

n) Shahamiyyah

o) Khayyatiyyah

p) Ka’biyyah

q) Jabaiyyah

r) Bahshamiyyah



The Murjiah were divided into 5 sects:

a) Yunusiyyah

b) Ghassaniyyah

c) Tawmaniyyah

d) Thawbaniyyah

e) Marisiyyah



The Najariyyah were divided into 3 sects:

a) Barghuthiyyah

b) Za’fraaniyyah

c) Mustadrakah



Finally, the 73rd group is the Ahle-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah, which is the group on haq. Towards the end of the kitab, Abd-al-Qahir al-Baghdadi (Rahimahullah) defines the Ahle-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah as follows:

Those who have completely mastered the principles of belief (Ash’aris and Maturidis), the mujtahid Imams of fiqh and their followers, the scholars of Hadith that steered clear of deviation, the scholars of Arabic grammar that steered away from deviation, the scholars of Tafsir that steered away from deviation, the Sufis, and the general masses of Muslims.

Most define Ahle-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah as those who follow the Ash’ari and Maturidi schools of Aqeedah, which includes the followers of the 4 Imams of fiqh.

Since every sect claims to be on the true path, the criterion to determine the true sect is as follows:

a) Adherence to the Quran and Sunnah of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)

b) To believe in Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) as the final Messenger

c) To have love for every companion of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam)

d) To follow the Shari’ah through the guidance of any of the four Imams of fiqh-Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi’ee, Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (Rahimahumullah)



(Al-Farq baynal-Firaq, Maktabah Darul-Turath)



2) The second part of the query has been answered above.



And Allah knows best

Wassalam u Alaikum

Ml. Asif Umar,
Student Darul Iftaa

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah


source: http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=07dab10e5d85bb5098366fc945b06f52

[islamicresearch]

Salaam,

has no one read the surah and verse I gave in regards to sects?

Jazakala
clip



Salam,

How many different sects are there today in 2011 in Islam. There will be 73 sects but one will be the righteous one.

Do qadiyanis and Shias count as two of the 73 sects or not because they are not muslims in the first place anyway?

Please keep Barelvi and Salafi out of this thread (i dont mean the people who are barelvis or salafis) whether they are two of the 73 sects or not because it will get hijacked in to deobandi vs barelvi vs salafis debate.

[amr123]

Salaam,

has no one read the surah and verse I gave in regards to sects?

Jazakala
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Warning!! the above mentioned website rejects hadiths. Do not follow it.

[Intrepid]

I'm surprised that Mufti Ebrahim Desai approved such a statement.

[Junaid Ibn Ahmed]

I'm surprised that Mufti Ebrahim Desai approved such a statement.

Why? - Out of curiosity.

[islamicresearch]

@Azhar,

its the Quran itself that rejects hadith brother....I follow the Quran, hence, I reject the hadith too:)

jazakala
clip

[EmGee909]

@Azhar,

its the Quran itself that rejects hadith brother....I follow the Quran, hence, I reject the hadith too:)

jazakala
clip

What?? The Quran rejects hadith? Where? You cant follow the Quran without following hadith. Thats just ridiculous

So basically, following Muhammad (SAW) is going against the Quran? Wow.

You say 'I reject the hadith too' , so you are now a scholar with such intense knowledge that you can declare ALL hadith as fake. Mashallah.

[Sulaiman84]

@Azhar,

its the Quran itself that rejects hadith brother....I follow the Quran, hence, I reject the hadith too:)

jazakala
clip


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?72011-Quranists

So that the common Muslim man doesn't get hoodwinked and bamboozled.;)

[rqsnnt]

@Azhar,

its the Quran itself that rejects hadith brother....I follow the Quran, hence, I reject the hadith too:)

jazakala
clip

:bism:
:salam:


I reject the hadith too:)

How do u do that?

Off topic, Do u eat dead fish?:-)

:jazak:

[TripolySunni]

Quranists reject clear guidance because of shear ignorance.

[Intrepid]

Why? - Out of curiosity.

Because if Mufti saheb believes that there are currently 73 sects, how does he explain the fact that there are new sects popping up and more will in the future. Personally I believe that when our beloved Nabi :saw: made this statement he had a set criteria in mind in terms of what defines a sect, the minimum number of people it contains for example. Would 3 or 4 individuals who have a particular belief be classified as a separate sect? I very much doubt it, therefore I believe only the Prophet :saw: knew what he had in mind as to what he meant by sect.

Allah knows best

[islamicresearch]

Salaam, please read, shame you guys havent read the Quran properly:


God rejects hadith by name in the Quran
Notice in the Arabic, God condemns the hadith by name in the Quran in all the verses presented, and informs us that it is a blasphemous fabrication (45:6-7). He says that the Quran is one consistent source since it's His Word. There is no contradiction in it. If it were from other than God, as hadith books are, they would have found in it numerous contradictions (4:82).

Surah 45 Verse 6
تِلْكَ آيَاتُ اللَّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَ اللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Tilka ayatu Allahi natlooha AAalayka bialhaqqi fabiayyi hadeethin baAAda Allahi waayatihi yuminoona

Yusuf Ali - Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition will they believe after (rejecting) Allah and His Signs?
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Surah 12 Verse 111
لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ ۗ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Laqad kana fee qasasihim AAibratun liolee alalbabi ma kana hadeethan yuftarawalakin tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi watafseela kulli shayin wahudan warahmatan liqawmin yuminoona

Yusuf Ali - There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.
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Surah 31 Verse 6
وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

Wamina alnnasi man yashtaree lahwa alhadeethi liyudilla AAan sabeeli Allahi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhithaha huzuwan olaika lahum AAathabun muheenun

Yusuf Ali - But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.
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Surah 4 Verse 86
أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا

Afala yatadabbaroona alqurana walaw kana min AAindi ghayri Allahi lawajadoo feehi ikhtilafan katheeran

Yusuf Ali - Do they not consider the Qur´an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

If God tells us not to follow conjecture like hadith in the Quran, why are you?

Jazakala

[Sulaiman84]

Salaam, please read, shame you guys havent read the Quran properly:


God rejects hadith by name in the Quran
Notice in the Arabic, God condemns the hadith by name in the Quran in all the verses presented, and informs us that it is a blasphemous fabrication (45:6-7). He says that the Quran is one consistent source since it's His Word. There is no contradiction in it. If it were from other than God, as hadith books are, they would have found in it numerous contradictions (4:82).

Surah 45 Verse 6
تِلْكَ آيَاتُ اللَّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَ اللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Tilka ayatu Allahi natlooha AAalayka bialhaqqi fabiayyi hadeethin baAAda Allahi waayatihi yuminoona

Yusuf Ali - Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition will they believe after (rejecting) Allah and His Signs?
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Surah 12 Verse 111
لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ ۗ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Laqad kana fee qasasihim AAibratun liolee alalbabi ma kana hadeethan yuftarawalakin tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi watafseela kulli shayin wahudan warahmatan liqawmin yuminoona

Yusuf Ali - There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.
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Surah 31 Verse 6
وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

Wamina alnnasi man yashtaree lahwa alhadeethi liyudilla AAan sabeeli Allahi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhithaha huzuwan olaika lahum AAathabun muheenun

Yusuf Ali - But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.
clip

Surah 4 Verse 86
أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا

Afala yatadabbaroona alqurana walaw kana min AAindi ghayri Allahi lawajadoo feehi ikhtilafan katheeran

Yusuf Ali - Do they not consider the Qur´an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

If God tells us not to follow conjecture like hadith in the Quran, why are you?

Jazakala
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It's a shame that you don't know the Arabic language :lol:. Keep on reading the Qur'an. You'll probably gloss over all those Ayaat on emphatically and implicitly following Rasulullah :saw:.

It's not a shame for you as much as it is a sham.

[islamicresearch]

Thats why i showed the Arabic, and the relating translations, looks like most of the translators were too afraid of translating the Arabic correctly...lol..also, if you wanted to follow the messenger you would follow him by following and obey the message, the Quranic message....

Also, where in the Quran does it say follow the hadith and sunnah of the prophet?

[Sulaiman84]

Thats why i showed the Arabic, and the relating translations, looks like most of the translators were too afraid of translating the Arabic correctly...lol..also, if you wanted to follow the messenger you would follow him by following and obey the message, the Quranic message....

Also, where in the Quran does it say follow the hadith and sunnah of the prophet?


So never, by your Lord, never shall they become believers unless they make you the judge in tho disputes which arise between them, then find no discomfort in their hearts against what you have decided and surrender to it in total submission.

Nisaa:65

http://classicalislamgroup.co.uk/index.php?view=tafseer/s4-v65

[islamicresearch]

and disputing the alleged hadith and sunnah of the prophet you claim to be in the Quran.....the Quranic message bought by the messenger was the Quran...nothing else but the Quran......why are many following man-made conjecture but the Quran...Did you not see the Quranic verses i gave you, are you disputing the clear concise Quranic verses i gave you brother?

Jazalaka
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[Sulaiman84]

So, those who violate his (messenger's) order must beware, lest they are visited by a trial or they are visited by a painful punishment.

Nur: 63

http://classicalislamgroup.co.uk/index.php?view=tafseer/s24-v62to64#a

[Sulaiman84]

and disputing the alleged hadith and sunnah of the prophet you claim to be in the Quran.....the Quranic message bought by the messenger was the Quran...nothing else but the Quran......why are many following man-made conjecture but the Quran...Did you not see the Quranic verses i gave you, are you disputing the clear concise Quranic verses i gave you brother?

Jazalaka
www.islamic-research.org

Should I keep on going 'cause there's a bunch more...yeah, I guess I should keep on going.

[islamicresearch]

yes those who violate the messengers commands are obviously not following what the messenger brought down, you still havent answered my question, where in the Quran does it say to follow the hadith and sunnah of the prophet?

The prophet Muhammad was enjoined, in very strong words, from issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran (Surah 69:38-48). Please read those verses!!!!!

Some Muslims compromise: "If a Hadith agrees with the Quran we will accept it, and if it contradicts the Quran, we will reject it!" Such premise proves that these people do not believe God's assertions that the Quran is "complete, perfect and fully detailed." The moment they seek guidance from anything besides the Quran, no matter how "right" it seems, they fall into Satan's trap (see 63:1).

For they have rejected God's word and set up another god besides God (18:57).

Jazakala
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[Sulaiman84]

And it is not open for a believing man or a believing woman -- once Allah and His messenger have decided a thing -- that they should have a choice about their matter. And whoever disobeys Allah and His messenger, he indeed gets off the track, falling into an open error.

Ahzaab: 36

http://classicalislamgroup.co.uk/index.php?view=tafseer/s33-v36to39

[Sulaiman84]

yes those who violate the messengers commands are obviously not following what the messenger brought down, you still havent answered my question, where in the Quran does it say to follow the hadith and sunnah of the prophet?

The prophet Muhammad was enjoined, in very strong words, from issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran (Surah 69:38-48). Please read those verses!!!!!

Some Muslims compromise: "If a Hadith agrees with the Quran we will accept it, and if it contradicts the Quran, we will reject it!" Such premise proves that these people do not believe God's assertions that the Quran is "complete, perfect and fully detailed." The moment they seek guidance from anything besides the Quran, no matter how "right" it seems, they fall into Satan's trap (see 63:1).

For they have rejected God's word and set up another god besides God (18:57).

Jazakala
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You must be cherry picking with the Qur'an. It's not possible to disregard the Ahadith and follow Rasulullah:saw:.

The Qur'an is the words of Allah, and Allah orders us to follow Rasulullah:saw: and Rasulullah :saw: commanded and explained things in detail that were not in the Qur'an. So not following Ahadith is in essence not following the Qur'an...unless you think Rasulullah :saw: only spoke the with words of the Qur'an his entire life of nubuwwah:rolleyes:

[islamicresearch]

Obey Allah and the messenger, how do you do this bro, by obeying the message sent!!!!

Now, again, where in the Quran does it say to follow the hadith and sunnah of the prophet?

read these articles

[69:38]
I swear by what you see.


[69:39]
And what you do not see.


[69:40]
This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.


[69:41]
Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.


[69:42]
Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take
heed.


[69:43]
A revelation from the Lord of the universe.


[69:44]
Had he uttered any other teachings.


[69:45]
We would have punished him.

[islamicresearch]

cherry picking, arent you cherry picking? assuming "follow the messenger" means follow the alleged man-made hadith and sunnah? Again, where in the Quran does it say follow hadith and sunnah opf the prophet?

[islamicresearch]

this is a reminder for all of us :[25:30]
The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted
this Quran."

Clearly, by following man-made conjecture like the alleged hadith and sunnah of the prophet, people are really deserting the Quran....and the Quranic message!!!

[Sulaiman84]

cherry picking, arent you cherry picking? assuming "follow the messenger" means follow the alleged man-made hadith and sunnah? Again, where in the Quran does it say follow hadith and sunnah opf the prophet?

Oh boy where should it start. ok think of synonyms for the word Hadith, or Rasulullah :saw:'s teachings. Think about different meanings of words and what they imply. All the verses I quoted to you show to follow Rasulullah :saw: commands. Those commands are found in the Ahadith. Did you miss that point?

[islamicresearch]

and just going back to the post you made? you said //and Rasulullah commanded and explained things in detail that were not in the Qur'an.//

erm where did he say this in the Quran? read Surah 69 38-48, you will see he was forbidden in uttering nothing but the Quran.....so your info is void....see the verses below!!!

[69:38]
I swear by what you see.


[69:39]
And what you do not see.


[69:40]
This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.


[69:41]
Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.


[69:42]
Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take
heed.


[69:43]
A revelation from the Lord of the universe.


[69:44]
Had he uttered any other teachings.


[69:45]
We would have punished him.


[69:46]
We would have stopped the revelations to him.


[69:47]
None of you could have helped him.


[69:48]
This is a reminder for the righteous.

[Sulaiman84]

I dont think this is going any where. You are glossing over all aayaat commanding that Rasulullah :saw: must be obeyed.

Yes that's cherry picking with the Qur'an.

[EmGee909]

and disputing the alleged hadith and sunnah of the prophet you claim to be in the Quran.....the Quranic message bought by the messenger was the Quran...nothing else but the Quran......why are many following man-made conjecture but the Quran...Did you not see the Quranic verses i gave you, are you disputing the clear concise Quranic verses i gave you brother?

Jazalaka
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If you follow the Quran then you follow the Sunnah and vice versa.

Whats wrong with following the Prophet(SAW)'s example? Whats wrong with copying what he did? You need to follow him in order to show your love for him.

[islamicresearch]

thats not fair bro, theres plenty of verses there, i mean what does it mean to you to follow "Raslullah"? how did it come to follow the alleged hadith and sunnah attributed to him?

How can you come to this conclusion when i have given plenty of verses showing you how the Quran rejects these hadith by name, also showing you the prophet uttered nothing but the Quran,....Think about it bro, to follow the messenger, we must obey the message sent...........the message of GOD alone, reading the Quran:)...

not the man-made hearsay.....:)....please read the articles i pasted, it will hopefully make u understand what it means to follow the messenger....

jazakala

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[Sulaiman84]

So according to you Rasulullah :saw: only spoke with words from the Qur'an?...during H
his entire prophetood?

[islamicresearch]

Ask yourself this, what did the messenger deliver?

Is that one element the Quran?
Is that one element the Hadith?

Again, lets look to the words of God and His messenger for the answer:

“Say: “Which is the greatest testimony?” Say: “God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur’an that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!” Say: “I do not bear witness!” Say: “He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!” (6:19)

“And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said: “Bring a Qur’an other than this, or change it!” Say: “It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of a great day!” (10:15)

It cannot be any clearer than that? The messenger delivered the Quran and nothing but the Quran.

Let us remain true to the commands of God by obeying His messenger in that which he delivered, and not be like those who turned away and will be denied by the messenger himself on the day of days:

“And the messenger said: ‘My Lord, my people have deserted this Qur’an.’”


As a prophet and messenger, he delivered GODs message perfectly as per surah 69-38-48.......

[EmGee909]

Thats why i showed the Arabic, and the relating translations, looks like most of the translators were too afraid of translating the Arabic correctly...lol..also, if you wanted to follow the messenger you would follow him by following and obey the message, the Quranic message....

Also, where in the Quran does it say follow the hadith and sunnah of the prophet?

Now youre a professor of Arabic too? Can you please give the 'correct' translation, since all these Arab scholars have been too afraid of translating it 'correctly'? :cheesygri

The rest of your comments are mocking Muhammad (SAW) so i suggest you stop commenting. You said the Prophet never uttered anything but the Quran. So he never said to his children 'i love you'? or asked for food? .

This is contradictory to what Allah says in Surah Kahf, aya 110:
'Say [oh Muhammad] 'I am a HUMAN BEING like you (mankind) ... '

Without hadith how would we know what certain ayas are talking about? Another example of where your argument doesnt hold is in Surah Abasa. If Muhammad (SAW) only spoke the Quran, why would he be told off in it?

[islamicresearch]

exactly EmGee- you are right he was only human, and like you said, he made mistakes as a human being, however, and like i said in which i was clear in saying, as a messenger and prophet he never faultered ..if he did, they would have stopped the revelations

since he did made mistakes as you pointed out, then why do you clearly follow sources outside the Quran...? the alleged hadiths and sunnahs attributed to the prophet?

[islamicresearch]

EmGee - are you saying hadith explains the Quran?

[islamicresearch]

I need to go but, please visit clip and we can inshallah discuss more...it is open to everyone............:)

salaam
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[TripolySunni]

Oi Islamicresearch Guy,

Let's imagine there were no Ahadith and that we only had the Quran, Let's take these verses for example:

Arabic:

والذاريات ذروا ﴿١﴾ فالحاملات وقرا ﴿٢﴾ فالجاريات يسرا ﴿٣﴾ فالمقسمات أمرا ﴿٤﴾

Transliteration:
Waalththariyati tharwan (1) Faalhamilati wiqran (2) Faaljariyati yusran (3) Faalmuqassimati amran (4)

Can you tell me what these verses mean without referring to hadith? just translate it for me if you can...

[TripolySunni]

EmGee - are you saying hadith explains the Quran?

I am saying you wouldn't even know how to read the Quran or understand it or translate it if it weren't for Hadith now answer my question above.

[Sulaiman84]

[QUOTE=islamicresearch;613912]I need to go but, please visit clip and we can inshallah discuss more...it is open to everyone............:)

salaam
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We will warn people of this type gross perversion of the Deen from that website.

We hope all Muslims are spared from these types of fitan, amen

[Intrepid]

Why argue with an ignoramus, who has still yet to make his mind up on how to perform salah? His (islamicresearch) arrogance is astounding. He should go an take a look at the following lecture;

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?72663-A-lesson-for-all-sunniforum-Members!-Please-Watch-it.

As most quranist don't even understand Arabic, hence rely on the translation of other, yet have the audacity to presume that they understand the Quran better then the thousands of Scholars that preceded them. Besides there logic doesn't compute, what are they trying to suggest that the Prophet:saw: only ever uttered the Quran? If not then what do they say about our Prophet :saw: when he was not uttering the Quran, that he was following his own will and contradicting the Quran? If not then the very same people who transmitted the Quran also transmitted the hadith, so why take one over the other?

P.S. Some one do me a favour an lock these idiots up in the loony bin, possibly in a straitjackets.

[islamicresearch]

salaam trpolisunni, who's "Oi"? I see you have no manners, so you dont deserve an answer from me, is that what your hadith teaches you how to interact with other people, i have always been respectful here....

Are you saying hadith explains the Quran bro? cos thats what your post insinuates.. is that what you mean?

[TripolySunni]

salaam trpolisunni, who's "Oi"? I see you have no manners, so you dont deserve an answer from me, is that what your hadith teaches you how to interact with other people, i have always been respectful here....

Are you saying hadith explains the Quran bro? cos thats what your post insinuates.. is that what you mean?

Answer that question NOW.

Imagine that you do not have Hadith, I want to you to translate and explain to me these verses:

Arabic:

والذاريات ذروا ﴿١﴾ فالحاملات وقرا ﴿٢﴾ فالجاريات يسرا ﴿٣﴾ فالمقسمات أمرا ﴿٤﴾

Transliteration:
Waalththariyati tharwan (1) Faalhamilati wiqran (2) Faaljariyati yusran (3) Faalmuqassimati amran (4)

[islamicresearch]

Intrepid - salaam, the salat many Muslims perform is shirk as they mention others besides Allah, our worship practices should be dedicated to Allah alone, not to commemorate prophet Muhammad or others.....

Also, did the prophet mention himself when he prayed? so why are you?......

jazakala
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[islamicresearch]

It is quite amusing that your guys refer to yourselves as "sunnis" since you are going against clear Quranic commandments here:


[6:159]
Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done.

to you your religion, to me mine....

salaam...

[marco100]

exactly EmGee- you are right he was only human, and like you said, he made mistakes as a human being, however, and like i said in which i was clear in saying, as a messenger and prophet he never faultered ..if he did, they would have stopped the revelations

since he did made mistakes as you pointed out, then why do you clearly follow sources outside the Quran...? the alleged hadiths and sunnahs attributed to the prophet?

So let me get this straight?

Follow only Quran and that applies to Muhammad pbuh too, because he too made a mistake in following either a) his own whims or b) someone else other than Allah and therefore was admonished in the Quran?. This is what you've in effect said. It's one or the other or even both, which is it?

However, the Quran and therefore Allah also says to the nearest meaning that the prophet speaks not of his own whims and desires so Na'uthubillah Allah has made a mistake in the verse? Allah has testified that Muhammad pbuh doesn't follow anyone but what Allah has commanded him to do, but "lapsed" on some occasion(s) and therefore was admonished? what was the admonishment for? sin or mistake? does your unique tafseer tell us?

Not only are you arrogant to mock Muhammad pbuh but also Allah.

I've followed your posts thus far and NO WAY does a MUSLIM make the comments you made.

Yes, buy the domain with "Islam" in it and fool the ignorant masses with your foul belief system....

Mods please ban this fool because he's clearly an orientalist or Shia liar out to cause trouble.

Edit: beat me to it, the second you used "sunnis" in your argument the game was up. At least be a bit more cunning, you lasted 17 posts!

[TripolySunni]

it is quite amusing that your guys refer to yourselves as "sunnis" since you are going against clear quranic commandments here:


[6:159]
those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with god, then he will inform them of everything they had done.

To you your religion, to me mine....

Salaam...


answer my question then leave.

[islamicresearch]

salaam marco, im afraid the hadiths and sunnah attributed to the prophet mock him, not me, i am doing exactly what he asked of us, to follow the Quran alone, if you cannot see this, then i cannot do anymore......but say

May Allah guide us all
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[marco100]

salaam marco, im afraid the hadiths and sunnah attributed to the prophet mock him, not me, i am doing exactly what he asked of us, to follow the Quran alone, if you cannot see this, then i cannot do anymore......but say

May Allah guide us all
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other than, "hadiths mock the prophet" which doesn't even make sense have you anything else you Shia liar?

Which Muhammad does The Quran talk about? Elijah Mohammed? Mirza ahmed Qadiani (possibly your prophet)?

[TripolySunni]

Why can't you answer a simple question?

You have an Original Arabic Quran and an englishman comes to you asking you to translate these four verses and explain them for him:

Imagine that you do not have Hadith, I want to you to translate and explain to me these verses:

Arabic:

والذاريات ذروا ﴿١﴾ فالحاملات وقرا ﴿٢﴾ فالجاريات يسرا ﴿٣﴾ فالمقسمات أمرا ﴿٤﴾

Transliteration:
Waalththariyati tharwan (1) Faalhamilati wiqran (2) Faaljariyati yusran (3) Faalmuqassimati amran (4)

Of course as a Quranist you must not use Hadith, so please explain and translate these verses for us.

[islamicresearch]

salaam marco

a) im not a shia, just a Muslim
b) the Quran, if you read, talks about the prophet Muhammad....

Bukhari, abu hurayra and co collected "Stories" and attributed them to the prophet...which you guys believe in!!!Man-made sources outside the Quran....many of them contradict the Quran, but still people are ready in their millions to say yes, these are the prophets stories.!!!

salaam

[marco100]

Why can't you answer a simple question?

You have an Original Arabic Quran and an englishman comes to you asking you to translate these four verses and explain them for him:

Imagine that you do not have Hadith, I want to you to translate and explain to me these verses:

Arabic:

Transliteration:
Waalththariyati tharwan (1) Faalhamilati wiqran (2) Faaljariyati yusran (3) Faalmuqassimati amran (4)

Of course as a Quranist you must not use Hadith, so please explain and translate these verses for us.

:salam:

he's using google translator as we speak! :cheesygri

or consulting his "Mehdi" in that well where they throw little pieces of paper...

[TripolySunni]

salaam marco

a) im not a shia, just a muslim
b) the quran, if you read, talks about the prophet muhammad....

Bukhari, abu hurayra and co collected "stories" and attributed them to the prophet...which you guys believe in!!!man-made sources outside the quran....many of them contradict the quran, but still people are ready in their millions to say yes, these are the prophets stories.!!!

Salaam
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answer me pls

[islamicresearch]

salaam again marco, if you are interested, please read this clip

if not, then take-care and nice talking to you:)

salaam
clip

[marco100]

salaam marco

a) im not a shia, just a Muslim
b) the Quran, if you read, talks about the prophet Muhammad....

Bukhari, abu hurayra and co collected "Stories" and attributed them to the prophet...which you guys believe in!!!Man-made sources outside the Quran....many of them contradict the Quran, but still people are ready in their millions to say yes, these are the prophets stories.!!!

salaam
clip

Shia, Shia, Shia.....

games up dude, go back where you came from and next time be more cunning. maybe a taqiyyah course...

[TripolySunni]

salaam again marco, if you are interested, please read this http://www.islamic-research.org/hadith-sunnah.html

if not, then take-care and nice talking to you:)

salaam
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Why don't you answer the poor Englishman who wants to learn about Islam?

explain to him those four verses and translate them for him without using Hadiths, let me repeat the verses:

Imagine that you do not have Hadith, I want to you to translate and explain to me these verses:

Arabic:

والذاريات ذروا ﴿١﴾ فالحاملات وقرا ﴿٢﴾ فالجاريات يسرا ﴿٣﴾ فالمقسمات أمرا ﴿٤﴾

Transliteration:
Waalththariyati tharwan (1) Faalhamilati wiqran (2) Faaljariyati yusran (3) Faalmuqassimati amran (4)

Common at least you should be able to translate these verse so that the poor englishman can understand them and be guided to islam???

[islamicresearch]

salaam again, if you guys are saying hadith explains the Quran, if it does,, then explain why 28 chapters of the Quran are not explained by bukhari and co?

28 suras of the Quran are NOT "explained" at all. The sura numbers are as follows; 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57, 58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, and 109. Bukhari explains this away as follows "no hadith were mentioned here."

According to the scholars only the Prophet is supposed to be the source of the hadith. The hadith is supposed to explain the Quran. The BIG question is, "Who went on un authorized holiday for 28 WHOLE SURAS of the Quran ?!!!

The scholars insist that the hadith explains the Quran. Hence the scholars have to do away with 28 SURAS of the Quran because Bukhari did not explain these 28 SURAS..

Therefore the boast by the scholars that those who uphold the QURAN ALONE and do NOT depend on the hadith at all, cannot understand the Quran, falls FLAT on its face. The scholars are in a far worse situation. 28 Suras are missing and none of the other suras are explained in full by Bukhari.

I never insinuated i know everything in the Quran or that i was a professor, but i do know this, not to follow outside sources,,,the Quran must be the only source to be followed

salaam

[islamicresearch]

tripoli - you need manners, you see I have ignored you since you do not know how to interact and communicate.....

salaam marco.....again, why are you insinuating im a shia? i said no im just a Muslim,

Marco- why do you call yourself a sunni when the Quran is clearly against sects? [6:159]
Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with
you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform
them of everything they had done.

salaam

[TripolySunni]

salaam again, if you guys are saying hadith explains the Quran, if it does,, then explain why 28 chapters of the Quran are not explained by bukhari and co?

28 suras of the Quran are NOT "explained" at all. The sura numbers are as follows; 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57, 58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, and 109. Bukhari explains this away as follows "no hadith were mentioned here."

According to the scholars only the Prophet is supposed to be the source of the hadith. The hadith is supposed to explain the Quran. The BIG question is, "Who went on un authorized holiday for 28 WHOLE SURAS of the Quran ?!!!

The scholars insist that the hadith explains the Quran. Hence the scholars have to do away with 28 SURAS of the Quran because Bukhari did not explain these 28 SURAS..

Therefore the boast by the scholars that those who uphold the QURAN ALONE and do NOT depend on the hadith at all, cannot understand the Quran, falls FLAT on its face. The scholars are in a far worse situation. 28 Suras are missing and none of the other suras are explained in full by Bukhari.

I never insinuated i know everything in the Quran or that i was a professor, but i do know this, not to follow outside sources,,,the Quran must be the only source to be followed

salaam
clip

Who said people depended on Bukhari to explain the Quran? I'd consult al-Tabari or Ibn Katheer instead... ANYWAY

STOP DODGING THE QUESTION AND ANSWER NOW

[TripolySunni]

tripoli - you need manners, you see I have ignored you since you do not know how to interact and communicate.....

[/url]

You Ignored me because you do not have an answer, Marco was much ruder yet you answer him... Now let me repeat the Question to you:

You have an Original Arabic Quran and an englishman comes to you asking you to translate these four verses and explain them for him:

Imagine that you do not have Hadith, I want to you to translate and explain to me these verses:

Arabic:

والذاريات ذروا ﴿١﴾ فالحاملات وقرا ﴿٢﴾ فالجاريات يسرا ﴿٣﴾ فالمقسمات أمرا ﴿٤﴾

Transliteration:
Waalththariyati tharwan (1) Faalhamilati wiqran (2) Faaljariyati yusran (3) Faalmuqassimati amran (4)

Of course as a Quranist you must not use Hadith, so please explain and translate these verses for us.

[islamicresearch]

heres a question, why do you people believe in hadiths, when some clearly contradict the Quran?

[TripolySunni]

heres a question, why do you people believe in hadiths, when some clearly contradict the quran?

answer my question above and stop dodging

[Badrud_Duja]

Mods could you ban this islamicresearch guy please, he is not here to learn but mock ahadith and he is also abusing scholars of Ahlussunnah wal jamaah.

@islamicresearch, create your own thread if you want to spread your propaganda and don't hijack my thread.

[islamicresearch]

Since, you are not understanding what im saying, the most gracious is the teacher of the Quran, see the verses below:

[55:1]
The Most Gracious.
[55:2]
Teacher of the Quran.

So i dont know how your "hadith" in fact explains the Quran, since the prophet was enjoined not to explain the Quran

PROPHET MUHAMMAD FORBIDDEN FROM ISSUING RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION OTHER THAN THE QURAN
"This is the utterance of an honorable messenger. Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe. Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed. A revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he uttered any other teachings. We would have punished him. We would have stopped the revelations to him." [69:40-46]

Now the translation of the words to my understanding is as follows:

wal-dhāriyāti
By those scattering,
dharwan
dispersing,
fal-ḥāmilāti
And those carrying
wiq'ran
a load,
fal-jāriyāti
And those sailing
yus'ran
(with) ease,
fal-muqasimāti
And those distributing
amran
Command,


NOW THE QURAN IS FULLY DETAILED AND HAS EXPLANATIONS OF EVERYTHING

"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." [6:114-115]

"The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. We have revealed to you this book to provide EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING, and guidance, and mercy and good news for the submitters." 16:89

"..We did not leave anything out of this book.." 6:38

"In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the DETAILS of EVERYTHING, and is a beacon and mercy for those who BELIEVE." 12:111

"This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD.It confirms all previous messages, and provides a FULLY DETAILED scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe." [10:37]

"This is the straight path to your Lord. We have DETAILED the revelations for people who TAKE HEED." 6:126

"We have given them a scripture that is FULLY DETAILED, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe." 7:52]


Now a question back to you guys, why do you need outside sources to help explain Quran, when the Quran says it has explanations of everything....????

salaam

[TripolySunni]

Now the translation of the words to my understanding is as follows:

wal-dhāriyāti
By those scattering,
dharwan
dispersing,
fal-ḥāmilāti
And those carrying
wiq'ran
a load,
fal-jāriyāti
And those sailing
yus'ran
(with) ease,
fal-muqasimāti
And those distributing
amran
Command,



Great Now you went and you copied and pasted the translation from a website but you fail to realise that these meanings are derived from Hadith,

Hinad narrated from Abu al-Ahwas from Simak from Khaled ibn 'Ur'urah That a Man asked 'Ali ibn abi Talib (ra): "What are fal-jāriyāti yus'ran?" Ali replied: "The ships sailing with ease."

Now let us imagine that you do not have this Hadith which the translator of the Quran adopted to explain the verses whose explanations you've copied, can you please explain to me why did you translate the words in verse (3) "fal-jāriyāti yus'ran" as "Those sailing with ease"? because as a Quranist you must not take the explanation of the verses from the narrations.

[Sulaiman84]

He doesn't understand that Ahaadith give context to many Aayaat that can not be understood by the Qur'an only.

How ironic, their slogans are "don't follow Hadith" "don't follow what this or that person said" but they're copying and and pasting another person's translation of Qur'an with Hadith context.:lol:

[TripolySunni]

Let me add a few more examples for you as well just to show you what situation you're in:

These verses from al-Mursalat,

Arabic:

والمرسلات عرفا ﴿١﴾ فالعاصفات عصفا ﴿٢﴾ والناشرات نشرا ﴿٣﴾ فالفارقات فرقا ﴿٤﴾ فالملقيات ذكرا

Transliteration:
Waalmursalati AAurfan (1) FaalAAasifati AAasfan (2) Waalnnashirati nashran (3) Faalfariqati farqan (4) Faalmulqiyati thikran (5)

Now I'll ask you to translate and explain these verses for me and just like a good boy you'll go and copy then paste the english translation from Sahih International or Yusuf Ali or Pickthall and you'll say:

The first verse means this:


Waalmursalati AAurfan
By those [winds] sent forth in gusts

In which case I'll ask you where you got it from? you'll say you got it from "Sahih international" then I'll ask you where did the guys from "Sahih international" get this explanation from? and you'll be silent Then I'll show you that the translation of the verse is based on the Hadith:

Abu kurayb told us, Al-Muhyaribi said, al-Mas'oudi said, Salamah ibn Kaheel said, Abu al-'Ubaidayn asked ibn Mas'oud (ra): What are Waalmursalati AAurfan? He replied: The winds.

So Mr.Quranist the bottom line is the Quran couldn't even be explained or translated without such hadiths.

[marco100]

He doesn't understand that Ahaadith give context to many Aayaat that can not be understood by the Qur'an only.

How ironic, their slogans are "don't follow Hadith" "don't follow what this or that person said" but they're copying and and pasting another person's translation of Qur'an with Hadith context.:lol:

:salam:

bingo...in fact even using any translation from someone who never met Muhammad pbuh or his companions as an authority on Quran yet rejecting those that lived with the prophet pbuh and lived the Quran is stupidity of the highest order. These are not sane people and I find it hard to believe that an iota of Iman would make someone act this way. can't accept it sorry.

Simpletons masquerading as intellectuals....oh dear.

[Salman253]

As-Salamu Alaykum
My respected brothers I advise you to ignore him and stop replying to his posts. Even if his views don't follow that of Islam we should remain respectful and not chant "Shia Liar"
Lastly it is quite obvious he is here for the sake of arguing so don't humor him.

[abuhajira]

Now the translation of the words to my understanding is as follows:

wal-dhāriyāti
By those scattering,
dharwan
dispersing,
fal-ḥāmilāti
And those carrying
wiq'ran
a load,
fal-jāriyāti
And those sailing
yus'ran
(with) ease,
fal-muqasimāti
And those distributing
amran
Command,


Your "translation of the words to [your] understanding" is a copy paste from (inclusive of the transliteration):

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=51&verse=6

I bet you cannot even explain "الواو عاطفة - اسم مجرور " :)

[Musleemah]

and disputing the alleged hadith and sunnah of the prophet you claim to be in the Quran.....the Quranic message bought by the messenger was the Quran...nothing else but the Quran......why are many following man-made conjecture but the Quran...Did you not see the Quranic verses i gave you, are you disputing the clear concise Quranic verses i gave you brother?

Jazalaka
clip

I did not read the whole thread as it is too long, so if my following questions have already been answered in this thread, then please point them out to me.

My questions:

Do you believe that the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said these hadeeths but we are not to follow them because they are not from Allah and not from the message of Islam? and that following them constitutes associating partners with Allah (i.e. shirk)?
or do you believe that he -sallallahu alaihi wa sallam- never said those hadeeths in the first place

if your answer is the second, that the hadeeths were all falsely attributed to the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, that they were all fabricated, then who fabricated them? the sahabah (companions) or who?

[Sulaiman84]

How can you come to this conclusion when i have given plenty of verses showing you how the Quran rejects these hadith by name, also showing you the prophet uttered nothing but the Quran,....Think about it bro, to follow the messenger, we must obey the message sent...........the message of GOD alone, reading the Quran:)...


When you have statements like that you really can't continue any logical, academic discussions with such a person.

[islamicresearch]

Salaam Musleemah, I never claimed once i could explain what these verses meant, did I?
i said i would give translation from understanding which i did, compare translations using islamawakened.com you will see variations of different understanding, some using hadiths to help their interpretations others not....

Anyhow , since, poeople are not understanding what im saying, the most gracious is the teacher of the Quran, see the verses below:

[55:1]
The Most Gracious.
[55:2]
Teacher of the Quran.

So i dont know how your "hadith" in fact explains the Quran...

PROPHET MUHAMMAD FORBIDDEN FROM ISSUING RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION OTHER THAN THE QURAN
"This is the utterance of an honorable messenger. Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe. Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed. A revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he uttered any other teachings. We would have punished him. We would have stopped the revelations to him." [69:40-46]


Now question for you guys to ponder over, if your claim is correct, and the hadith explains the Quran as your all suggesting, then why are 28 chapters not explained? also:


[2:1] A.L.M.
[3:1] A.L.M.
[29:1]A. L. M.
[30:1]A. L. M.
[31:1]A. L. M.
[32:1]A. L. M.

The Initials `Á.L.R.' (Alef Lam Ra)
Surah 10:1
Surah 11:1
Surah 12:1
Surah 14:1
Surah 15:1


[42:1] H. M.
[42:2] `A. S. Q.


There are whole lot more initials, but these will do for now, an explanation from hadith would suffice:)

jazakala
www.islamic-research.org

[islamicresearch]

Salaam Sulaiman - yes "As a prophet" did he utter your baseless hadith and sunnah? surah 69-40-46?

jazakalah
www.islamic-research.org

[Sulaiman84]

He is the One who has revealed to you the Book. A number of its verses are Muhkamat (of established meaning) - and those are the principal verses of the Book - and others, Mutashabihat (whose definite meanings are unknown). Now those who have crookedness in their hearts go after such part of it as is mutashabih seeking (to create) discord and searching for its interpretation while no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those well-grounded in knowledge say: "We believe therein; all is from our Lord." And only the men of understanding do observe the advice.

Aali Imraan: 7

http://classicalislamgroup.co.uk/index.php?view=tafseer/s3-v7

[Sulaiman84]

Salaam Sulaiman - yes "As a prophet" did he utter your baseless hadith and sunnah? surah 69-40-46?

jazakalah
www.islamic-research.org


He is the One who raised amidst the unlettered people a messenger from among themselves who recites to them His verses, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the wisdom, although they were in an open error before,

Jumu'ah: 2

http://classicalislamgroup.co.uk/index.php?view=tafseer/s62-v1to8

Guess what "wisdom" means there?

(...to teach them the Book and the Wisdom...62:2) The word al-Kitab refers to the Holy Qur'an, and the word al-hikmah refers to all the teachings and guidance that have been received from the Messenger of Allah :saw: orally or practically. As a result, many of the commentators have interpreted the word hikmah as the Approved Way [Sunnah of the Holy Prophet :saw:].

[hiso]

@islamicresearch
Out of curiosity. Did you belong to ahlul-hadith or any salafi group before? Since when did you join the ahlul quran group ?

[Aspirer]

'Quranists' as we know them originated in the 19th century. Of course, there were groups (Mutazilis, Jahmis) who believed that some hadiths were wrong, but nothing like the Quranists of today.

If they're willing to think that Islam was astray until the 19th century just so they can placate their modernist egos, well... then they are as they are, and as their words have made them.

[Musleemah]

Waiting for answers to my questions from islamicreaserch





My questions:

Do you believe that the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said these hadeeths but we are not to follow them because they are not from Allah and not from the message of Islam? and that following them constitutes associating partners with Allah (i.e. shirk)?
or do you believe that he -sallallahu alaihi wa sallam- never said those hadeeths in the first place

if your answer is the second, that the hadeeths were all falsely attributed to the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, that they were all fabricated, then who fabricated them? the sahabah (companions) or who?

[EmGee909]

Salaam Sulaiman - yes "As a prophet" did he utter your baseless hadith and sunnah? surah 69-40-46?

jazakalah
www.islamic-research.org

A hadeeth is a saying of the Prophet (SAW)

And do you know what surah 69.40 - 46 was even revealed for? Do you know the story of when it was revealed?

[EmGee909]

EmGee - are you saying hadith explains the Quran?

Yes, because with the hadith we know the context and situations that different ayahs were revealed in.

[abdulwahhab]

:salam:

Could the mods remove all the links to that guy's website? Could brothers and sisters please stop humouring this guy and close this thread? He is winning by promoting his anti-Islamic website on every post, regardless of his pathetic arguments.