Major differences in four madhab's ??

[itajamulrahman]

What are all the major differences between these four madhab's hanafi, shafi, malaki and humbali..!

What makes peoples to follow only one imam ?

Why peoples feel it is difficult to follow all four imam's ?

Reply simple so that i can understand i am not highly qualified in islam.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


What are all the major differences between these four madhab's hanafi, shafi, malaki and humbali..!


We the followers of the Imams never tried to compare the madhabs. And it will not help you anyway.


What makes peoples to follow only one imam ?


By following one Imam we don't reject the proofs of other Imams.


Why peoples feel it is difficult to follow all four imam's ?


Let the rejecters of madhabs set an example by compiling a fifth madhab with clear study of the four madhabs. Then Inshaa Allah we discuss about the difficulty.


Reply simple so that i can understand i am not highly qualified in islam.

That is a simple reply. Let us close this discussion now. Ramdhan is above us, let us use our energy towards a fruitful ramadhan.

[simpletruthislam]

100 Examples illustrating the differences between sects

Items
Hanafi Maliki Shafi Hanbali

1. Skin of a dead animal
unlawful lawful unlawful lawful

2. Flesh of beasts fed on dirt
- lawful - unlawful

3. Eel
lawful - - unlawful

4. Man’s wearing red
abominable lawful unlawful abominable

5. Man’s wearing yellow
unlawful lawful unlawful unlawful

6. Playing ud, recorder, drum, etc. abominable lawful lawful unlawful

7. Crow flesh unlawful lawful unlawful unlawful

8. Horse flesh unlawful lawful - -

9. Mussels
unlawful lawful - -

10. Oysters
unlawful lawful - -

11. Lobsters
unlawful lawful - -

12. Swallows lawful lawful unlawful unlawful

13. Eagles
unlawful lawful unlawful unlawful

14. Bats unlawful abominable unlawful unlawful

15. Ablution before circumambulation in pilgrimage
duty (wacip) binding duty binding duty binding duty

16. Rehearsing of Fatiha in the first two rekats during prayer.
duty binding duty binding duty binding duty

17. Tasbih in kneeling and prostrating
sunna - sunna duty

18. Rehearsing suras after the fatiha during the first two rekats
duty permissible sunna sunna

19.Rehearsing basmala before the fatiha
sunna abominable binding duty duty

20. Interval between feet during prayer in the standing position
3 inches 16 inches 8 inches 16 inches

21. Vitr prayer
duty sunna sunna sunna

22. Man who touches a boy becomes canonically unclean
no yes no no

23. Does greeting during prayer make one canonically unclean?
yes no - -

24. Interval allowed from the person during prayer.
40 fathoms 1 fathom 3 fathoms 3 fathoms

25. To utter words other than the prayer during prayer annuls it
yes no no no

26. Using a wrong word during the prayer annuls it
yes no no no

27. Sighing during the prayer annuls it
yes no yes yes

28. Is the urine of beasts whose flesh is edible clean? yes no yes no

29. Is the sperm of edible beasts clean?
yes yes no no

30. Number of binding duties in ablution
4 7 6 7

31. Is there an obligatory order of acts during ablution?
no no yes yes

32. Must acts performed during ablution follow an unbroken succession?
no yes no yes

33. Number of sunnas of ablution
17 8 30 20

34. Is the use of miswak sunna?
yes no yes yes

35. Washing hands, face and arms three times sunna?
yes no yes yes

36. Is the three times anointing the head during ablution a sunna?
no no yes yes

37. Is the rubbing of ears inside & outside a sunna?
yes yes yes no

38. How many times must the ears be rubbed during ablution?
once once three times once

39. The number of acts that annul one’s ablution
12 3 5 8

40. Does touching one’s sexual organ annul the ablution?
no yes yes yes

41. Does laughter during pray (salat) annul the ablution
yes no no no

42. Do eating camel flesh and washing the body of the dead annul the ablution?
no no no yes

43. Does uncertainty annul the ablution?
no no no yes

44. Does bleeding annuls the ablution?
yes no no yes

45. Is expression of intention necessary before ablution?
yes no no no

46. Number of reasons for total ablution (gasala)
7 4 5 6

47. Number of binding duties related to total ablution
11 5 3 -

48. Person not performing the pray because of neglect or idleness
is jailed& killed if killed if killed if
beaten& he doesn’t he doesn’t he doesn’t
killed repent repent in repent in 3 days 3 days

49. If the words are not rehearsed successively will call for prayer (ezan) be valid
yes yes no no

50. Can a person who doesn’t speak Arabic rehearse the words of ezan in his tongue?
no yes no yes

51..Must formal resolve be expressed in ezan?
no yes no yes

52. Is greeting permissible during the ezan?
no no no yes

53. Must one rehearse the Fatiha at every prayer? Is it a binding duty?
yes no no no

54.Is salam a binding duty at the end of every prayer?
no to one to one to both
direction only direction only directions

55. Parts of a man that should be covered?
From navel privy parts & from navel from navel
to the knee buttocks to the knee to the knee

56. Portion of a corpse for ritual cleaning before burial
2/3 ½ a portion a portion

57. Must water enter the mouth and nostrils during ritual washing of the corpse
no yes yes no

58. Should person who died during hajj (pilgrimage) be incensed
with perfume and face covered?
yes yes no no

59. Who will conduct the salat performed in honor of the dead?
sultan- person next of person
head of state that the dead kin that the dead
had indicated had indicated

60. Special proscription for the time of performance of salat in honor of the dead?
5 3 every time 3

61 Can body be buried at a location other than the one where death occurred?
yes yes no no

62. Should intention to fast be expressed by word of mouth
yes yes no yes

63. Should a person renew his intention to fast every day in Ramadan?
yes no yes yes

64. Does bleeding annul fasting?
no no no yes

65. Chattel a person owes that bars zakat giving?
all assets gold&silver no all assets
except for grains prescription

66. Should a man or woman give zakat on their jewelry?
yes no no no

67. Should zakat be given on cash?
yes yes yes no

68. Rate of zakat on metals?
1/5 1/5 1/40 1/40

69. No. of conditions related to zakat to be given on traded assets
4 5 6 2

70. Should zakat be given on any valuable thing unearthed?
yes no no yes

71. Should zakat be given on honey produced?
yes no no yes

72.Should zakat be given on land devoted to pious foundations?
yes yes no no

73.Should zakat be given on land rented or held in tenure to be cultivated ?
no yes yes yes

74. Should zakat be given on olives?
yes yes no yes

75.Should zakat be given on cattle fed on foddle or worked in the field?
no yes no no

76. Age of sheep and goat at which they are liable for zekat?
For sheep 1 For sheep 1 For sheep 1 For sheep 1/2
For goat 1 For goat 1 For goat 2 For goat 2

77. Can a woman go to hajj unaccompanied by her husband?
no yes yes no

78. Can a person unable to go on hajj appoint a proxy?
yes no yes yes

79. Number of requirements for hajj?
2 4 5 4

80. Is it permissible that the stone hurled at Satan does not fall on the jamra during pilgrimage?
yes no no no

81. Is it permissible to give food to a poor who is not a Muslim?
yes no no no

82. Is it unlawful to sit on silk, to lean against it or to use it as tapestry?
no yes yes yes

83. Is it permissible for a boy to wear silk?
no no yes yes

84. Is it permissible to use a cup ornamented with silver while taking
ablution or drink from?
yes no no no

85. Is trimming the beard unlawful?
yes yes no yes

86. Is backgammon unlawful?
no yes yes yes

87. Is chess unlawful?
yes yes no yes

88. Should the debts of a dead be paid?
no yes yes no

89. What portion of things unearthed in one’s own land are due to the state?
1/5 0 0 0

90. Is the usurper cultivator of land the owner of the produce he obtains?
yes yes yes no

91. Time within which a contract can be modified or terminated?
3 days according 3 days according to
to the need contract

92. Beast sexually assaulted
killed not killed not killed should be
flesh nor flesh edible flesh edible killed
edible

93. Number of times the cudgel shall be applied to inflict punishment to a drinker of wine or other inebriating substance?
80 80 40 80

94.Will a person stinking or vomiting wine be punished with a cudgel?
no yes no no

95. Can the estate of a religious apostate killed be given to his inheritor?
yes no no no

96. Should a woman renegade be killed?
no yes yes yes

97. Should letting some die by abandoning, imprisoning and leaving him to starve be considered as premeditated murder?
no yes yes yes

98. Can a woman act as a judge?
yes no no no

99. Is a dog a clean animal?
no no yes yes

100. Should a muezzin be paid for his act?
no yes yes no



SO CHOOSE ONE ACCORDING TO OTHER YOU WILL PROBABLY GO TO HELL

[Quandary]

Hah, a khariji Munkar-e-Hadith...

Are you here to post things from free-minds? if so, just leave a link somewhere and then go away.

[ahamed_sharif]

SO CHOOSE ONE ACCORDING TO OTHER YOU WILL PROBABLY GO TO HELL

Mr "simplytruekufr"
If you are not reciting laa ilaaha illallahu muhammadarrasulullah at this instant, you are sure to be in hell.

[Sulaiman84]

SO CHOOSE ONE ACCORDING TO OTHER YOU WILL PROBABLY GO TO HELL


Has anyone told you that differences in Aqeedah draws the line between Iman and Kufr? Not differences in Fiqh.


...Didn't know you had the authority to determine who "probably" will go to hell.:rolleyes:.

[junfrared]

What are all the major differences between these four madhab's hanafi, shafi, malaki and humbali..!

What makes peoples to follow only one imam ?

Why peoples feel it is difficult to follow all four imam's ?

Reply simple so that i can understand i am not highly qualified in islam.

Asalam Alikum,

Something relatively relevant to you:

Why is Following the Other Madhhab a Punishable Offence (http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=b551a17a218c568f8de379257532defa)

[simpletruthislam]

so i can follow any fiqh or change it too is that ok

[zahed73]

'simpletruthislam'


SO CHOOSE ONE ACCORDING TO OTHER YOU WILL PROBABLY GO TO HELL

I see the shytan works through you.

Signs of one possessed by shytan
They argue a lot
They always think their opinion is right and are not open to others
They think of other human's as less then themselves
They have a high opinion of there own selves
They always shout at people and call them names and they get angry a lot

I was doing some self analysis brother . This nature exists in all humans to some extent as you said


how shaytan works through me? there is shaytan with everyone is there not?

Mine is not so radical and extremist like yours .

Why do you Disrespect Sunnah like that and have extreme views ?

No one is contradicting Quran by following any of the four great imam's
' school of thought ' Fiqh , Anlalysis .

That is all it is .

[simpletruthislam]

how shaytan works through me? there is shaytan with everyone is there not?
why i must follow a fiqh which i got from birth but i dont like it
if all are right than why can i not select one which i like?

it is like if i am born hindu i should remain hindu whole like? or use my brain read quran and accept the truth? what about the rules of fiqh that goes against quran should i follow them too?

[junfrared]

if all are right than why can i not select one which i like?[QUOTE]


No. QURAN prohibits explicitly. Allah Ta'ala says:

Have you (O Muhammad ) seen him who has taken as his ilh (god) his own desire? 25/43

And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance fromAllah? Verily!Allah guides not the people who are Zlimn 28/50

Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilh (god), andAllah knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him afterAllah? Will you not then remember? 45/23

And BTW Mazahb is the issue who believes in hadith.

[QUOTE]what about the rules of fiqh that goes against quran should i follow them too?


How can a laymen figure this out. What is the meaning of these statements:


It is not (necessary) for all the believers to go forth.‘; So, why should it be that a group from every section of them does not go forth, so that they may acquire perfect understanding of the Faith, and so that they may warn their people when they return to them, so that they may take due care (of the rules of Shari_ah ). ( 9. At tuba 123 verse)

This means not everybody have perfect knowledge Quran wa Hadith. Only dedicated Authorities have perfect understanding.


Also He says:

And do not follow a thing about which you have no knowledge. (17. Al-Isra, 36 verse)

Therefore if your are a layman then don't interfere in the work of Scholars. or If you like to become a scholar then dedicate life.

Remember that Quran is also collected and written by HUMANS. Hadith to came to us as same as Quran came. And if Hadith have apparent contradiction then Quran also have apparent contradiction. So merely these grounds are not valid to reject the Hadiths.

Just research with open heart the authenticity of Hadith, this thing is naturally evident. Where are you going brother?

This also the attribute of His book:

By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fsiqn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah). 2/26

So don't be rebellious, disobedient to Allah, inshall Allah will give you the way. See also my signature

[simpletruthislam]

[QUOTE=simpletruthislam;709957]if all are right than why can i not select one which i like?[QUOTE]


No. QURAN prohibits explicitly. Allah Ta'ala says:

Have you (O Muhammad ) seen him who has taken as his ilh (god) his own desire? 25/43

And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance fromAllah? Verily!Allah guides not the people who are Zlimn 28/50

Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilh (god), andAllah knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him afterAllah? Will you not then remember? 45/23

And BTW Mazahb is the issue who believes in hadith.



How can a laymen figure this out. What is the meaning of these statements:


It is not (necessary) for all the believers to go forth.‘; So, why should it be that a group from every section of them does not go forth, so that they may acquire perfect understanding of the Faith, and so that they may warn their people when they return to them, so that they may take due care (of the rules of Shari_ah ). ( 9. At tuba 123 verse)

This means not everybody have perfect knowledge Quran wa Hadith. Only dedicated Authorities have perfect understanding.


Also He says:

And do not follow a thing about which you have no knowledge. (17. Al-Isra, 36 verse)

Therefore if your are a layman then don't interfere in the work of Scholars. or If you like to become a scholar then dedicate life.

Remember that Quran is also collected and written by HUMANS. Hadith to came to us as same as Quran came. And if Hadith have apparent contradiction then Quran also have apparent contradiction. So merely these grounds are not valid to reject the Hadiths.

Just research with open heart the authenticity of Hadith, this thing is naturally evident. Where are you going brother?

This also the attribute of His book:

By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fsiqn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah). 2/26

So don't be rebellious, disobedient to Allah, inshall Allah will give you the way. See also my signature



brother quran says take their desires as ilah i will not take my desire i would learn fiqh know which is best suited according to quran and i will follow it so is that wrong? because quran is the furqaan the criteria to judge between right and wrong so what is against quran that is against allah's will and i cant follow that

as fiqh imams them selves said that any fatawa of theirs is agaisnt quran throw it on the wall

i believe in hadith quran is ahsnul hadith sura 39

how did u know that i am a layman?? do u know that it is a sin to just think anything for anybody without proof

BROTHER U QUOTED THE VERSE NO. WRONG IT IS 122 NOT 123

AND U TOTALLY MISS INTERPRETE IT if u read the verse above and below u will know that it is for battle time not general verse NOW TELL ME WHO IS LAYMAN

you can never understand quran verses if u take them out of context brother u need to read verses above and below

http://quran.com/9/120-129

yes dont follow things which u have no knowledge so i dont know how bukhari did know 10000 people whom most were dead born 10 generations before him collected and remebeterd 600000 hadiths and than wrote only approx 6000 hadiths as sahih and all this he done in span of 16 yrs and at the age of like 23 onwards so how did he do it is it a miracle or just humbug story

u proved that u r a layman quoting verses out of context and calling other as a layman if u ever read quran with a littel attentions u know that it doesnt require any more commentory

QURAN WRITTENT AT TIME OF SHAHABIS HADITHS WRITTEN AFTER 250 YEARS SO I WOULD BELIVE QURAN

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE APPARENT CONTRADICITON IN QURAN PLEASE LET ME KNOW ONE

ALLAH CHALLANGES TO SHOW A SINGLE COTRADICITON IN QURAN IF IT WAS WRITTEN BY HUMANS IT HAD MANY

AGAIN READ VERSES 2:20 TO 30 to know what allah is talking about dont quote a single verse HE IS TALKING ABOUT THOSE WHO THINK QURAN IS NOT ENOUGH OR ASKS MORE TO UNDERSTAND QURAN LIKE U NEED MORE THAN QURAN

http://quran.com/2/20-30

these ayats challenge u to make something like quran and u will never be sucessfull so people try to make hadiths simillar authority like quran but they failed to remove contradcitions

so dont go against quran ,,, read quran ur self,, dont blind follow scholars,,, allah guides his sincere seekers

[niyazi22]

Asalamu Aleykum.
I think junfrared meant that the Quran was compiled by men, not made by men. Uthman (ra) collected all the verses and put it into one mushaf, because many non Arabs changed the words. And all the four madhabs agree on one another. It is just what you prefer and what you think is best. Indeed these great imams were a great example and made it easy for people that can't dedicate there whole live to studying fiqh(like they did), but still need to know how to practice Islam properly. Please also improve your English, it is very hard reading what you've wrote. And Allah knows best.

[ahamed_sharif]

dear simple false kufr

You quoted in post no. 3 differences among the 4 madhabs. I would appreciate if you would have quoted your view on fifth column.
1. Is it all Y or all N.
2. Do you have proofs for that.
3. Is that documented.
4. Is that universally accepted.
5. Do you have fully documented books of masail of all branches of life from your quran alone.

We are speaking of religion not child's play.

Or is it that you pick a masalah and decide according your desire and whims and attribute it to quran ayah interpreting your own way.

[simpletruthislam]

Asalamu Aleykum.
I think junfrared meant that the Quran was compiled by men, not made by men. Uthman (ra) collected all the verses and put it into one mushaf, because many non Arabs changed the words. And all the four madhabs agree on one another. It is just what you prefer and what you think is best. Indeed these great imams were a great example and made it easy for people that can't dedicate there whole live to studying fiqh(like they did), but still need to know how to practice Islam properly. Please also improve your English, it is very hard reading what you've wrote. And Allah knows best.

if non arabs changed words than u should know that the hadith writer imams were not arabs all were persians except malik and four madhahbs dont agree with each other if u ever read fiqh books u will know that they say that so and so rule of so madhab is wrong they blame each other

people can decide themselves if they ever read quran with understanding as allah says in quran

[simpletruthislam]

dear simple false kufr

You quoted in post no. 3 differences among the 4 madhabs. I would appreciate if you would have quoted your view on fifth column.
1. Is it all Y or all N.
2. Do you have proofs for that.
3. Is that documented.
4. Is that universally accepted.
5. Do you have fully documented books of masail of all branches of life from your quran alone.

We are speaking of religion not child's play.

Or is it that you pick a masalah and decide according your desire and whims and attribute it to quran ayah interpreting your own way.


salam brother SHARIF (?)

1. i would not follow my opinions i would follow quran

2. they are from fiqh books if u have them atleast read them

3. yes they are documented in madhab fiqh books of each imam

4. not a single madhab is universally accepted can u get me one?

5. so u mean quran is not complete?? what are massails? read quran and judge according to quran why judge according to 4 men each has different answer?

the word RELIGION is never used for ISLAM in QURAN

Islam is DEEN - path to follow not religon

Islam is challenge to all RELIGIONS

and RELIGIONS are child's play they teach things that even child knows are worng

i decide a maslah according to quran nothing else is needed because even prophet pbuh was commanded to take allah as a judge and judge according to quran that who are we to change the laws of allah? are ur fiqh imams better than prophet?? if prophet judges by quran than why should i judge by imams?


again quran says dont say those people who says to salam as kafirs

so salamun alaykum

now if u call me a kafir than u r kafir ur self cause u rejected quran

[ahamed_sharif]

Hi

Those who do not judge matters according to what Allah has revealed are kaafirs. (Quran 5:44)


1. i would not follow my opinions i would follow quran


That's why I asked to add the fifth column in your earlier post and write your opinion there.


2. they are from fiqh books if u have them atleast read them


You should prefix a quran ayah in the sixth column



3. yes they are documented in madhab fiqh books of each imam


I was asking for a documented book from where you have got the mas'alah.


4. not a single madhab is universally accepted can u get me one?


I was asking for universally accepted book of masail of munkireen hadeeth (lanatullahi alayha)


5. so u mean quran is not complete?? what are massails? read quran and judge according to quran why judge according to 4 men each has different answer?


You have not even started to compile the masail required in our daily life. The day you start you will appreciate the efforts of 4 men. So start compiling, there are about 1.5 million masail compiled by Imam abu haneefa.


the word RELIGION is never used for ISLAM in QURAN

Islam is DEEN - path to follow not religon


Yours is a religion ours is deen.


i decide a maslah according to quran nothing else is needed because even prophet pbuh was commanded to take allah as a judge and judge according to quran that who are we to change the laws of allah? are ur fiqh imams better than prophet?? if prophet judges by quran than why should i judge by imams?


You haven't started compiling the masail. I understand you read the books of fiqh of the four imams. Now take each masail from the fiqh book and prefix them with a quran ayah. You can quote a documented book of the rejecters of hadeeth for this.

I would ask you to start with the following masalah.

In our deen donkey is haraam and buffalo is halaal. What does your religion say.


again quran says dont say those people who says to salam as kafirs

so salamun alaykum

now if u call me a kafir than u r kafir ur self cause u rejected quran

We have well recorded history where mischief mongers (munaafiqs) who played with quran and sunnah were finished by the then rulers.

[simpletruthislam]

so u want maslah


[The Quran 2:173] He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the Meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[The Quran 5:3] Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the MEAT of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the Meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.

[The Quran 5:5] Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture (Jews & Christians) is lawful (halal) for you......

[The Quran 2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, 'In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit.

[The Quran 5:90] O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed.

[The Quran 6:118-119] You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelation.

Why should you NOT eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned ? He has detailed for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.






[The Quran 6:145] Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[The Quran 16:14] And He committed the sea to serve you; you eat from it tender meat, and extract jewelry which you wear. And you see the ships roaming it for your commercial benefits, as you seek His bounties, that you may be appreciative.

[16:114] Therefore, you shall eat from God's provisions everything that is lawful and good, and be appreciative of god's blessings, if you do worship Him alone.

[The Quran 16:115] He only prohibits for you dead animals, blood, the meat of pigs, and food which is dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[The Quran 66:1] O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.




SO NOW I CAN SAY FROM QURAN THAT DONKEY IS HALAL

[ahamed_sharif]

Hi,

So rhinio, elephant, zebra, monkeys, zirrafe, a big list all are halal.

And when pork when offered on a christian or jews dining table is halal.

So when are you offering a nice donkey meat kabab.

You have answered one from many lines I have posted here.

[ahamed_sharif]

Hi,
Those who do not judge matters according to what Allah has revealed are kaafirs. (Quran 5:44)

Also which reference book of your religion did you read to declare donkey halal.
Remember you picked the four different rulings of 4 madhabs from the fiqh books. What is the equivalent of fiqh books in your religion.

[simpletruthislam]

Hi,

So rhinio, elephant, zebra, monkeys, zirrafe, a big list all are halal.

And when pork when offered on a christian or jews dining table is halal.

So when are you offering a nice donkey meat kabab.

You have answered one from many lines I have posted here.

lol did u read all verses ? it says pork is haram so it has nothing to do with jew or chritians and jews dont eat pork no only some chritians do not all

my answer contained only quran verses if u want to reject them be my guest allah will decide about what u do

u dont eat donkey so i would not offer you that lol

u asked only one question so i answered that from quran did u ever read quran with understanding.. or going to ask such questions and give round and round arguments to support that u r hadith is more correct than quran


[The Quran 6:145] Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


THIS AYAT CLEARLY SAYS PROPHET SAID THAT HE DID NOT FIND ANYTHING HARAM EXCEPT THESE 4 THINGS IN REVELATIONS....

so r u saying he added them later lol u r going against quran again

[simpletruthislam]

Hi,
Those who do not judge matters according to what Allah has revealed are kaafirs. (Quran 5:44)

Also which reference book of your religion did you read to declare donkey halal.
Remember you picked the four different rulings of 4 madhabs from the fiqh books. What is the equivalent of fiqh books in your religion.

ARE FIQH BOOKS EQUAL TO QURAN ? how may times are you going to ask the same stupid question i said i follow QURAN so is it so difficult for you to understand?

[rqsnnt]

..
In our deen donkey is haraam and buffalo is halaal. What does your religion say.
...

:bism:
:salam: Brother ahamed_sharif

A little correction. As i know not all donkeys r Haram in our deen (ISLAM).

It is permissible to eat the meat of onagers (“wild donkeys”) and it is haraam to eat the meat of domesticated donkeys. The first is permitted because of the report narrated by al-Bukhaari (5492) and Muslim (1196) from Abu Qataadah (may Allaah be pleased with him) who hunted an onager and brought a piece of it to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he ate some of it, and he said to his companions: “It is halaal, eat it.”

Plz make a discussion with a knowledgeable person.

:jazak:

[ahamed_sharif]

Hi

Those who do not judge matters according to what Allah has revealed are kaafirs. (Quran 5:44)



lol did u read all verses ? it says pork is haram so it has nothing to do with jew or chritians and jews dont eat pork no only some chritians do not all


Present a quranic verse which says to eat from a selected christian dining table.


my answer contained only quran verses if u want to reject them be my guest allah will decide about what u do


I have all the right to reject your interpretation of quran.


u dont eat donkey so i would not offer you that lol


I asked you to offer and I didn't offer to eat that. By the way, what changed your mind is getting clear, the donkey meat.



u asked only one question so i answered that from quran did u ever read quran with understanding.. or going to ask such questions and give round and round arguments to support that u r hadith is more correct than quran

Selectively you picked one masalah alone. I have asked more question in that post. I am sure you don't have reply to that and carefully avoided them.

go to this post

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?75494-Major-differences-in-four-madhab-s&p=711675&viewfull=1#post711675


THIS AYAT CLEARLY SAYS PROPHET SAID THAT HE DID NOT FIND ANYTHING HARAM EXCEPT THESE 4 THINGS IN REVELATIONS....

We muslims clearly know what Prohet said and what Allah swt has made haram for us. May not be you.

So you according to your interpretation of quran, cat, mouse, horses, water snakes, crocodiles everything is halal. So compile a book (you don't have a reference book yet).

Let me quote an example. In a house if there are 10 members, each interprets the quran his own way and makes a thing haram and other nine halal, Similarly there are 10 things and 10 different combinations. So according to your theory you have posted, all of them are in hell.

Please reply to all the queries in the post.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


:bism:
:salam: Brother ahamed_sharif

A little correction. As i know not all donkeys r Haram in our deen (ISLAM).

It is permissible to eat the meat of onagers (“wild donkeys”) and it is haraam to eat the meat of domesticated donkeys. The first is permitted because of the report narrated by al-Bukhaari (5492) and Muslim (1196) from Abu Qataadah (may Allaah be pleased with him) who hunted an onager and brought a piece of it to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he ate some of it, and he said to his companions: “It is halaal, eat it.”

Plz make a discussion with a knowledgeable person.

:jazak:

I recall a munazerah between Moulana Ameen safdar okarvi RA and gair muqallideen. the subject was on taqleed. When Moulana okarvi RA cornered the GM munazir, he declared donkey is halal. The crowd from GM fell on him and said, you were called to clear the minds about taqleed and you are making us donkey eaters.

Brother rqsnnt, if one progress from "rejectors of fiqh" to "rejectors of hadeeth", the domestic donkey will also be halal. So I make dua for "status quo".

[rqsnnt]

Assalamu alaykum



I recall a munazerah between Moulana Ameen safdar okarvi RA and gair muqallideen. the subject was on taqleed. When Moulana okarvi RA cornered the GM munazir, he declared donkey is halal. The crowd from GM fell on him and said, you were called to clear the minds about taqleed and you are making us donkey eaters.


:bism:
:salam:

What is the ROLE of Moulana Ameen safdar okarvi RA and GM here? It seems GM, Lamadahabi, salafi becomes nightmare in ur life!. Plz get help form doctor.




Brother rqsnnt, if one progress from "rejectors of fiqh" to "rejectors of hadeeth", the domestic donkey will also be halal. So I make dua for "status quo".

Can u brother make ur statement more clear. Who rejects hadith here?

:jazak:

[ahamed_sharif]

:bism:
:salam:


What is the ROLE of Moulana Ameen safdar okarvi RA and GM here? It seems GM, Lamadahabi, salafi becomes nightmare in ur life!. Plz get help form doctor.




Can u brother make ur statement more clear. Who rejects hadith here?

:jazak:

Assalamu alaykum


What is the ROLE of Moulana Ameen safdar okarvi RA and GM here? It seems GM, Lamadahabi, salafi becomes nightmare in ur life!. Plz get help form doctor


Who entered the discussion between a munkireen-e-hadeeth and a muqallid. GM's are a never nightmare for me, Alhamdulillah, even if I am woken from sleep and asked to answer the GMs I can reply to them. Alhamdulillah.

Secondly the first step towards munkir-e-hadeeth is munkire fiqh.

[rqsnnt]

Assalamu alaykum



Who entered the discussion between a munkireen-e-hadeeth and a muqallid. GM's are a never nightmare for me, Alhamdulillah, even if I am woken from sleep and asked to answer the GMs I can reply to them. Alhamdulillah.



Masha-Allah, u can reply. BTW can u brother post a Hadith that saying No Salat while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? or Perform 2 rakat salat before sitting while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? Don't forget to give reference.:cheesygri




Secondly the first step towards munkir-e-hadeeth is munkire fiqh.

Still it's not clear to me.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

We take the rulings from Imam-e-azam abu haneefa and he has the reference.

Since there were no muslims during that time, may be you would have been born during the time of Sayyiduna Umar, Uthman, Aliyy, ibn Abbaas and others (Radhiallaahu Anhum) to question there practice of not praying nafl during friday khutbah.

In my earlier posts also I have challenged you to bring a well documented book with the masalahs of about 1.5 million masail universally accepted by the fifth group. suffixed by a quran ayah or a saheeh hadeeth. You have asked one I have asked 1.5 million.

[rqsnnt]

Assalamu alaykum

We take the rulings from Imam-e-azam abu haneefa and he has the reference.

In my earlier posts also I have challenged you to bring a well documented book with the masalahs of about 1.5 million masail universally accepted by the fifth group. suffixed by a quran ayah or a saheeh hadeeth. You have asked one I have asked 1.5 million.

:bism:
:salam: Brother ahamed_sharif;

As my observation GM r not used to understand complex fiqh masala ;). That why they depend on 6-10 thousand (might be) hadiths for their reference. When they come across a masala then they used to say which hadith was used as a base of that masala.



Brother i asked u a single reference, but u asked by 1.5 million masail. Brother don't do injustice for ur name & fame, Plz answer my following question. It's not u who claimed as follow


GM's are a never nightmare for me, Alhamdulillah, even if I am woken from sleep and asked to answer the GMs I can reply to them. Alhamdulillah

My question was Post a Hadith that sayingNo Salat while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? or Perform 2 rakat salat before sitting while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday?

:jazak:

[rqsnnt]

Assalamu alaykum

Since there were no muslims during that time, may be you would have been born during the time of Sayyiduna Umar, Uthman, Aliyy, ibn Abbaas and others (Radhiallaahu Anhum) to question there practice of not praying nafl during friday khutbah. ...

:salam:

No need such assumption of big statement. Just provide reference from our prophet saying that No Salat while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? or Perform 2 rakat salat before sitting while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? If u r a follower of our beloved prophet :saw: then why not u post reference from him? Is there no any references from our Prophet :saw: about 2 Rakat salat during khutba?

:jazak:

[ahamed_sharif]

:salam:

No need such assumption of big statement. Just provide reference from our prophet saying that No Salat while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? or Perform 2 rakat salat before sitting while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? If u r a follower of our beloved prophet :saw: then why not u post reference from him? Is there no any references from our Prophet :saw: about 2 Rakat salat during khutba?

:jazak:

I quote from your scholar "whoever gives preference to syeduna Umar's ruling over ruling of Syeduna Mohammed SAS is a KAAFIR". We ignore that statement, because we know who was Syeduna Umar. And this scholar has no value for Syeduna Umar RA.

Now please tell me whether the actions of Sayyiduna Umar, Uthman, Aliyy, ibn Abbaas and others (Radhiallaahu Anhum) were against sunnah?

[rqsnnt]

I quote from your scholar "whoever gives preference to syeduna Umar's ruling over ruling of Syeduna Mohammed SAS is a KAAFIR". We ignore that statement, because we know who was Syeduna Umar. And this scholar has no value for Syeduna Umar RA.

Now please tell me whether the actions of Sayyiduna Umar, Uthman, Aliyy, ibn Abbaas and others (Radhiallaahu Anhum) were against sunnah?

:salam:


This is a perfect example of Fake Asheke Rasul!!!!:cheesygri

Brother it's time to TEST our Iman according following verse of Quran. We have to decide who will be judge when disputes between us, Our prophet :saw: or Sayyiduna Umar, Uthman, Aliyy, ibn Abbaas?


But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (4:65)

Brother let us know who should be judge? Whom should we follow?

Followings r clear orders from our prophet :saw: to offer 2 rakat salat during khutba is going on. Whom should i follow?

Bukhari: Volume 2, Book 21, Number 267:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah :

While delivering a sermon, Allah's Apostle said, "If anyone of you comes while the Imam is delivering the sermon or has come out for it, he should offer a two Rakat prayer."


Chapter 159 : OBSERVING OF TWO RAKIAHS AS A SALUTATION OF THE MOSQUE WHILE THE IMAM IS DELIVERING (THE SERMON)
Muslim: Book 4, Number 1903:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Sulaik Ghatafani came on Friday when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was delivering the sermon. He (Sulaik) sat down. He (the Holy Prophet) said to him: 0 Sulaik I stand and observe two rak'ahs and make them short, and then said: When any one of you comes on Friday, while the Imam delivers the sermon, he should observe two rak'ahs and should make them short.


Sayyidina Jabir ibn Abdullah (RA) narrated that while the Prophet (SAW) was delivering the sermon, a man came. So, he asked him, “Have you offered salah?” He said, “No!” The Prophet (SAW) said, ‘Get up and pray.”

[Ahmed 14313, Bukhari 930, Muslim 875, Abu Dawud Nisai 1405,Tirmidhi 510]

lyad ibn Abdullah ibn Abu Sarh narrated that on a Friday, Sayyidina Abu Sa’eed Khudri (RA) enterred (the mosque) while Marwan was delivering a sermon. He stood up in prayer and the guards came to make him sit down but he did not cease till he had finished. When the prayer (of Friday) was over, the men met him and said “May Allah be Merciful to you”. These people had pressed you to sit down.” He said, “I would never have given them up (the two raka’at), having seen Allah’s Messenger He then mentioned that a man in dirty clothing came one Friday. The Prophet (SAW) commanded him to offer the two raka’at while he (the Prophet SAW) was delivering the sermon.

[Nisai 1404, Ibn e Majah 1113, Tirmidhi 511]


:jazak:

[StudentOfTheDeen]

These contentions are outdated and have already been answered which even someone with the ability to google search would've been able to conclude. Please read this without a closed heart or stubborn mindset:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2274&CATE=122

It should clear up a lot. Don't bother responding unless you read the entire article.

[ahamed_sharif]

:salam:



Brother it's time to TEST our Iman according following verse of Quran. We have to decide who will be judge when disputes between us, Our prophet :saw: or Sayyiduna Umar, Uthman, Aliyy, ibn Abbaas?


But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (4:65)

Brother let us know who should be judge? Whom should we follow?

Followings r clear orders from our prophet :saw: to offer 2 rakat salat during khutba is going on. Whom should i follow?

Bukhari: Volume 2, Book 21, Number 267:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah :

While delivering a sermon, Allah's Apostle said, "If anyone of you comes while the Imam is delivering the sermon or has come out for it, he should offer a two Rakat prayer."


Chapter 159 : OBSERVING OF TWO RAKIAHS AS A SALUTATION OF THE MOSQUE WHILE THE IMAM IS DELIVERING (THE SERMON)
Muslim: Book 4, Number 1903:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Sulaik Ghatafani came on Friday when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was delivering the sermon. He (Sulaik) sat down. He (the Holy Prophet) said to him: 0 Sulaik I stand and observe two rak'ahs and make them short, and then said: When any one of you comes on Friday, while the Imam delivers the sermon, he should observe two rak'ahs and should make them short.


Sayyidina Jabir ibn Abdullah (RA) narrated that while the Prophet (SAW) was delivering the sermon, a man came. So, he asked him, “Have you offered salah?” He said, “No!” The Prophet (SAW) said, ‘Get up and pray.”

[Ahmed 14313, Bukhari 930, Muslim 875, Abu Dawud Nisai 1405,Tirmidhi 510]

lyad ibn Abdullah ibn Abu Sarh narrated that on a Friday, Sayyidina Abu Sa’eed Khudri (RA) enterred (the mosque) while Marwan was delivering a sermon. He stood up in prayer and the guards came to make him sit down but he did not cease till he had finished. When the prayer (of Friday) was over, the men met him and said “May Allah be Merciful to you”. These people had pressed you to sit down.” He said, “I would never have given them up (the two raka’at), having seen Allah’s Messenger He then mentioned that a man in dirty clothing came one Friday. The Prophet (SAW) commanded him to offer the two raka’at while he (the Prophet SAW) was delivering the sermon.

[Nisai 1404, Ibn e Majah 1113, Tirmidhi 511]


:jazak:


But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (4:65)



But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (4:65)
And there were no muslims around Syeduna Umar, Syeduna Ali RA, syeduna Uthman and ibne Abbas who knew this ayah???? Reason there was no internet at that time.


Brother let us know who should be judge? Whom should we follow?


If we follow the khulafa-e-rashideen to get the knowledge of sunnah and practice upon that sunnah, we are fake aashiq-e-rasool. ha ha. We don't need a certificate here.

I quote from your scholar "whoever gives preference to syeduna Umar's ruling over ruling of Syeduna Mohammed SAS is a KAAFIR". We ignore that statement, because we know who was Syeduna Umar. And this scholar has no value for Syeduna Umar RA.

May be you have missed the biographies of khulafa-e-rashideen and learned sahabah. You are reading the part of books which are being asked to read by your scholars (the so called real ashiq-e-rasool)

[ahamed_sharif]

These contentions are outdated and have already been answered which even someone with the ability to google search would've been able to conclude. Please read this without a closed heart or stubborn mindset:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2274&CATE=122

It should clear up a lot. Don't bother responding unless you read the entire article.

Assalamu alaykum

jazakallah for that post.

But this brother has already indicated that one is a kaafir (whoever let it be), if he goes against the ahadeeth which our neo mufti rqsnnt has quoted.

[Sulaiman84]

:salam:

Sigh...textbook example...

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?82201-Book-How-I-became-a-Hanafi-by-Shaykh-Ameen-Safdar-Okarvi-(Main-Hanafi-Kaisay-Bana)/page4

[rqsnnt]

And there were no muslims around Syeduna Umar, Syeduna Ali RA, syeduna Uthman and ibne Abbas who knew this ayah???? Reason there was no internet at that time.



If we follow the khulafa-e-rashideen to get the knowledge of sunnah and practice upon that sunnah, we are fake aashiq-e-rasool. ha ha. We don't need a certificate here.

I quote from your scholar "whoever gives preference to syeduna Umar's ruling over ruling of Syeduna Mohammed SAS is a KAAFIR". We ignore that statement, because we know who was Syeduna Umar. And this scholar has no value for Syeduna Umar RA.

May be you have missed the biographies of khulafa-e-rashideen and learned sahabah. You are reading the part of books which are being asked to read by your scholars (the so called real ashiq-e-rasool)


:bism:
:salam: Brother ahamed_sharif

Brother u have shown an example of a MUSLIM who shows HIGH love to our Prophet :saw: by performing MILAD, but when Examples of our prophet :saw: come to u and something that is not according to ur Madhab then u bring examples of others and ask another questions.

Brother u have shown an example of a MUSLIM who used to say Prophet :saw: is our IDEAL, but we follow him as long as our Madhabs allow to follow him.


Let we learn The answer of the Believers

The answer of the Believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger, in order that He may judge between them, is no other than this: they say, "We hear and we obey": it is such as these that will attain felicity. (51)

May Allah guide us in straight path. Ameen.


:jazak:

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

We are not dealing with ahamed riza or ghamadi, we are discussing about khulafa-e-rashideen. You throw a fatwah of kufar on someone who takes the path of sunnah through Syeduna Umar, Syeduna Uthman, Syeduna Ali and Syeduna ibne Abbas by quoting quranic ayah. Also validate the fatwah of your scholar I have quoted.

Munkir-e-fiqh is a step towards munkir-e-hadeeth.
If someone belittles the sahabah, he is a step near to shiasm.

[Quandary]

:ws:

Saying 'the judgment of some Sahabah in this case may have been incorrect,' may be inappropriate for laymen, but it is hardly 'belittling the Sahabah.' The incident related, for example, in Mufti Taqi Usmani's Legal Status when Zaid bin Thabit's :anhu: fatwa was overridden by Ibn Abbas's :anhu: fatwa, is not a belittlement of Zaid bin Thabit :anhu:.

[rqsnnt]

Assalamu alaykum

We are not dealing with ahamed riza or ghamadi, we are discussing about khulafa-e-rashideen. You throw a fatwah of kufar on someone who takes the path of sunnah through Syeduna Umar, Syeduna Uthman, Syeduna Ali and Syeduna ibne Abbas by quoting quranic ayah. Also validate the fatwah of your scholar I have quoted.

Munkir-e-fiqh is a step towards munkir-e-hadeeth.
If someone belittles the sahabah, he is a step near to shiasm.

I was talking about us, between u and me. I already gave examples by indicating u.

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum


Saying 'the judgment of some Sahabah in this case may have been incorrect,' may be inappropriate for laymen, but it is hardly 'belittling the Sahabah.' The incident related, for example, in Mufti Taqi Usmani's Legal Status when Zaid bin Thabit's fatwa was overridden by Ibn Abbas's fatwa, is not a belittlement of Zaid bin Thabit .

What we are discussing here is
"if someone reaches to sunnah through the khulafa-e-rashideen is it kufr or not".
"Is it not belittling of sahabh by claiming that they kept quiet when khulafa-e-rashideen practices in broad day light were against the sunnah of Rasulullah SAS". Is this not the shia way.

No one from followers zaid bin thabith gave a fatwah of kufr on followers of ibn-abbas and vice versa.

Our claim is correct that there were difference of opinion among the sahabah.

[Sulaiman84]

I was talking about us, between u and me. I already gave examples by indicating u.

It should be simple for you if you accept the Hadith on following the sunnah of the khulafaa ar raashideen :anhum:.

[niyazi22]

Assalamu alaykum


What we are discussing here is
"if someone reaches to sunnah through the khulafa-e-rashideen is it kufr or not".
"Is it not belittling of sahabh by claiming that they kept quiet when khulafa-e-rashideen practices in broad day light were against the sunnah of Rasulullah SAS". Is this not the shia way.

No one from followers zaid bin thabith gave a fatwah of kufr on followers of ibn-abbas and vice versa.

Our claim is correct that there were difference of opinion among the sahabah.

Asallamu Alleykum
Imam Ash-Shafi'i once said: ''If I argue with a hundred scholars, I am the winner. But if I argue with one ignorant person, he's the winner. the people said how? He replied: If a hundred scholars have their evidences and proof, and whether they make a case or I make a case, I'm a winner because i came to realize the truth. But if you argue with a ignorant person he will not consider any ahadeeth or ayah, because he will keep trying to back up his claim, even though he knows he is wrong.'' It is roughly translated though. Here we can see, even if you try to debate an ignorant, he will keep his stance and will not accept the most sound stance. So let him speak, and Allah knows best.

[yusra.]

Asalamu Aleykum.
I think junfrared meant that the Quran was compiled by men, not made by men. Uthman (ra) collected all the verses and put it into one mushaf, because many non Arabs changed the words. And all the four madhabs agree on one another. It is just what you prefer and what you think is best. Indeed these great imams were a great example and made it easy for people that can't dedicate there whole live to studying fiqh(like they did), but still need to know how to practice Islam properly. Please also improve your English, it is very hard reading what you've wrote. And Allah knows best.


[Mod Note: Qadyani links are not allowed]


i think your conceptions about compilation of holy quran are not clear . please refer to the above think

wallah ul ilm

[Mizan]

It's true what the Imam Shafie said brother niyazi22...

[purana.paapi]

:salam:

No need such assumption of big statement. Just provide reference from our prophet saying that No Salat while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? or Perform 2 rakat salat before sitting while Imam is giving khutbah in Friday? If u r a follower of our beloved prophet :saw: then why not u post reference from him? Is there no any references from our Prophet :saw: about 2 Rakat salat during khutba?

:jazak:
Now will you Shut Up
http://www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/5097/prayer-during-the-friday-khutbah-.html
The Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has instructed that whenever a person enters the masjid, he should perform two rak’ats of prayer before sitting down. This prayer is called tahiyyat al-masjid [greeting of the masjid], and it is a sunna prayer.

However, these two rak‘ats are not to be performed at times in which prayers are undesirable [makruh]. Islamic law has designated the following times as undesirable:

(1) after the Fajr prayer until sunrise;
(2) after the ‘Asr prayer until sunset;
(3) from the beginning of sunrise until the sun is a spear’s length above the horizon [i.e. when a distance equal to the sun’s diameter appears between the sun and the horizon];
(4) from the time the sun is at its highest point in the sky until it moves on
[istiwa’]; and
(5) from when the sun turns yellow before sunset until after it has set.
Hence, it is recommended to perform the tahiyyatal-masjid upon entering the

Masjid at any time other than these disliked times. There is however one other
exception to this general rule. Since the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) forbade any form of prayer or conversation during the Friday sermon [khutba], it is not allowed that a person perform the tahiyyat al-masjid upon entering the Masjid while the sermon is in progress. This is the opinion of the Hanafis and many others.

Some scholars state that a person entering the Masjid at such a time should still perform a set of two rak’ats prior to sitting down and listening to the imam’s sermon. They go as far as designating it a desirable act even at that time.

The following is a discussion regarding this very issue. It seeks to determine the exact procedure a person should follow when he enters the Masjid during the Friday sermon. The evidence used by the Hanafi school to establish the impermissibility of performing Salat while the sermon is in progress will be presented first; after which we will analyze the few seemingly contradictory narrations that are used to prove the permissibility of prayer in this time.

The Qur'an On This Issue

Allah, the Exalted, says:

“So when the Qur’an is recited, listen to it and remain silent, that you may receive mercy.” (al-Qur’an 7:204).

This verse was revealed concerning Salat (and, according to some opinions, concerning the sermon too). Now, since the sermon has been likened to prayer and since the verses of the Qur’an are recited in it, the command of this verse shall apply to the sermon as well; which means that a person would have to observe silence during the sermon and listen attentively to what is being said. This also means that the person should not occupy himself in prayer during the sermon.

It is related from ‘Umar (radiallahu anh) that the two sermons on Friday are equal to two rak‘ats of prayer. This is probably why the rak’ats of Friday prayer are only two, whereas the rak’ats of Zuhr are four. He states: "The sermon is equivalent to two rak‘ats; therefore, whoever misses the sermon should perform four rak’ats [of Zuhr] instead." (Musannaf lbn Abi Shayba 2:128, Musannaf Abd al-Razzaq)

It should be remembered that this was his personal view, and the ruling of the majority of scholars is that a person should still join the two rak’ats Friday congregation with the imam even if he happened to miss the sermon.

Since the sermon is similar to the prayer, it could be concluded from this that one should also remain silent and listen carefully while the sermon is in progress, just as one would while in prayer. The wisdom behind disallowing all forms of prayer, remembrance [dhikr], supplication [du’], and even enjoining the right and forbidding the wrong [amr bi‘l-ma’ruf and nahy‘an al-munkar] —which is permissible on all other occasions—is due to the fact that if a person engages in tahi’yat al-masjid or any other activity while the sermon is in progress, he will not be able to listen attentively to the imam’s sermon.

The Hadiths On This Issue

1) Abu Hurayra (radiallahu anh) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "Whoever says, “Remain silent,” while the imam is delivering the sermon, he has nullified [his reward]." (Sunan al-Tirmidhi 1:114)

2) Abu Hurayra (radiallahu anh) narrates from the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam): "When you say, “Remain silent,” to your companion on Friday while the imam is delivering the sermon, you have nullified [your reward]." (Sahih Muslim 1:281, Sharh Ma’ani ‘l-athar)

Since merely reminding another person to keep quiet during the Friday sermon has been prohibited by these hadiths, it follows that tahiyyat al-masjid, which is a supererogatory [nafl] action, must also be disallowed while the Friday sermon is being delivered. The following Hadith further clarifies this deduction:

3) ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (radiallahu anhuma) narrates that he heard the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) say, “When one of you enters the Masjid to find the imam on the pulpit [delivering the sermon], then no prayer or conversation [is permitted] until the imam finishes.” (Majma’ al-zawa’id 2:184)

This Hadith in itself may have been classified by some as being defective due to the narrator in its chain, Ayyub ibn al-Nahik. There is mixed criticism about him. Some scholars of Hadith have called him trustworthy, while others have called him weak. However, despite this, there are many other aspects which bolster its acceptability. Ibn Abi Shayba has related some other narrations of Ibn ‘Umar (radiallahu anhuma) (the narrator of this hadith) which would indicate that Ibn ‘Umar’s personal opinion and practice was in conformance with his narration. This adds strength to his narration.

One of the principles of Hadith [usul al-hadith] is that any narration supported by the constant practice of the Companions (radiallahu anhum) and Followers (rahmatullahi alaihim) will acquire enough strength to be used as evidence. This means that the message of the above hadith, despite the criticism leveled at its chain, can be accepted. The fact that there are many other rigorously authenticated [sahih] hadiths that relay the same message as the above Hadith makes it even more legitimate to use as proof. We will see in the following paragraphs that this opinion was not an isolated one but was rather the opinion of numerous Companions and Followers.

4) It is related from Salman al-Farsi (radiallahu anh) that the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "A person who performs the ritual bath [ghusl] on Friday, attains as much purity as he can, applies oil or some scent found in the house; then departs for the Masjid and does not force two people apart [to sit between them]; and performs as much prayer as Allah has willed for him, and then maintains silence while the imam speaks, will have all his sins from the present Friday to the next forgiven." (Sahih al-Bukhari 1:122, Sharh Ma’ani ‘l-athar 1:369)

5) A similar narration of Abu Hurayra (radiallahu anh) in Sahih Muslim has the following variation: [...] and performs what has been ordained for him, then observes silence until the imam finishes his sermon... (Sahih Muslim 1:283)

6) Another narration of Abu Hurayra and Abu Sa’id al-Khudri (radiallahu anhuma) contains the following variation: [...] and performs what Allah has ordained for him, then observes silence when the imam appears... (Sunan Abi Dawud 50 U)

7) Nubaysha al-Hudhali (radiallahu anh) narrates from the Messenger of Allah: "When a Muslim performs Ghusl [ritual bath] on Friday, approaches the Masjid without inconveniencing anybody; and if he finds that the imam has nor yet appeared, he engrosses himself in prayer for as long as possible; and if he finds the imam present, he sits silently and listens attentively until the imam completes the Friday prayer..." (Musnad Ahmad)

Imam Haythami states regarding the above Hadith that “Imam Ahmad has narrated this Hadith and its narrators are those of Sahih al-Bukhari except for the Shaykh [teacher] of Ahmad, who is trustworthy." (Majma’ al-zawa’id 2:171)

None of the above hadiths mention that it is virtuous or even permissible to perform prayer once the imam has appeared for the sermon. The reason why this has been prohibited is due to the musalli’s inability to attentively listen to the imam’s sermon and to the verses of the Qur’an he is reciting.

The Companions (Sahabah - Radiallahu anhum) And Followers (Tabi'een - rahmatullahi alaihim) On This Issue

1) It is related from ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas and Ibn ‘Umar (radiallahu anhum) "that they disliked any prayer or conversation on Friday once the imam had appeared [to deliver the sermon]. (Musannaf lbn Abi Shayba 2:124)

2) It is narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (radiallahu anhuma) that he would remain in prayer on Friday, and when the imam would appear he would stop praying. (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2:124)

3) ‘Uqba ibn ‘Amir (rahmatullahi alaih) has been reported as saying that prayer while the imam is on the pulpit [minbar] is a disobedience [ma’siya] (Sharh Ma’ani ‘l-athar 1:370)

4) It is narrated from Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri (rahmatullahi alaih) that a person [who enters the Masjid on Friday while the imam is delivering the sermon] should sit down and not engage himself in any prayer. (Sharh Ma’ani ‘l-athar 1:369)

5) It is narrated from Khalid al-Hadhdha’ (rahmatullahi alaih) that Abu Qilaba (rahmatullahi alaih) arrived while the imam was delivering the sermon. He sat down and did not perform any prayer (Sharh Ma’ani ‘l-athar 1:369)

6) Abu Malik al-Qurazi (rahmatullahi alaih) narrates that the “sitting” of the imam on the pulpit [minbar] signals an end to all prayer, and his “sermon” [signals an end] to all talking. (Sharh Ma‘ani ‘l-athar 1:370)

7) Ibrahim al-Nakh’ay (rahmatullahi alaih) says, ‘Alqama (rahmatullahi alaih) was asked, “Do you speak while the imam is delivering the sermon or after he has arrived [to deliver it]?“ He said no (Sharh Ma‘ani ‘l-athar 1:370)

8) It is related from Mujahid (rahmatullahi alaih) that he disliked to pray while the imam was delivering the sermon (Sharh Ma’ani ‘l- athar 1:370)

Another important point is that the angels have also been reported to wrap up their registers as soon as the sermon begins. The following hadiths reveal that as the imam begins his sermon, the angels put away their records in order to listen to the sermon.

9) There is a narration of Abu Hurayra (radiallahu anh) in Sahih al-Bukhari, as well as in other collections, regarding the angels recording the names and times of the worshippers arriving for the sermon on Friday. Towards the end of this hadith, the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) says, "Thereafter, when the imam appears, the angels wrap up their records and begin to listen to the admonition [dhikr]." (Sahih Muslim 1:283, Sahih al Bukhari 1:127, Sunan al-Nasa’i 205)

10) A narration from Abu Umama (radiallahu anh) states: "When the imam appears, the records [of the angels] are put away." (Majma’ al-zawa’id 2:177)

11) A narration from Abu Sa’id al-Khudri (radiallahu anh) states: "When the muezzin calls for prayer [adhan] and the imam sits on the pulpit, the records [of the angels] are wrapped up, and they enter the Masjid listening attentively to the admonition [dhikr]." (Majma’ al-zawa’id 2:177)

12) In his commentary on Sahih Muslim, Imam Nawawi (rahmatullahi alaih) has stated that the same (i.e. that no prayer during the sermon) was the practice of ‘Umar, ‘Uthman, and ‘Ali (radiallahu anhum). (Sharh Sahih Muslim 1:288)

13) Allama Shawkani (rahmatullahi alaih) states that the great Hadith master Zayn al-Din ‘Iraqi (rahmatullahi alaih) has related the same practice from Muhammad ibn Sirin, Qadi Shurayh, Ibrahim al- Nakh’ay, Qatada, and Zuhri (rahmatullahi alaihim).

14) Ibn Abi Shayba (rahmatullahi alaih) has also reported this opinion from Sa’id ibn al-Musayyib, Mujahid, ‘Ata’, and ‘Urwa ibn al-Zubayr (rahmatullahi alaihim).

These narrations highlight and further establish the position of the Hanafis on the issue of prayer during the Friday sermon. Their opinion is that it is impermissible to perform Salat while the sermon is in progress.

Analyzing The Seemingly Contradictory Hadiths

1) Jabir (radiallahu anh) narrates: Sulayk al-Ghatafani (radiallahu anh) arrived on Friday and sat down while the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was delivering the sermon. The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ordered him to stand and perform two rak’ats and to make them short. (Sahih Muslim 1:287)

This Hadith is used by those who claim that it is permissible to perform two rak‘ats during the sermon. This however is very difficult to accept due to the following reasons:

(a) This Hadith cannot stand as evidence for prayer being permissible at the time of the sermon, because it speaks of a lone and isolated incident. It was only once that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ordered somebody to rise and perform two rak’ats during the sermon. In fact, there are a number of narrations which state that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ordered people to sit down during the sermon.

There is one Hadith about a desert Arab [a‘rabi] who had come to Allah’s Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) to complain about drought, then had appeared a week later to complain about heavy floods. This person arrived during the Friday sermon, but the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not command him to perform two rak’ats.

Anas (radiallahu anh) narrates: A person entered [the masjid] on a Friday from the door opposite the pulpit upon which the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was delivering the sermon. He faced the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and said, “O Messenger of Allah, properties have been destroyed and the pathways blocked. Pray to Allah that he send us rain.” The narrator says that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) raised his hands and prayed, “O Allah, grant us rain.” It began to rain, and, by Allah, we did not see the sun for a week. Thereafter, the person arrived through the same door the following Friday while the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was delivering the sermon. He faced the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and said, “O Messenger of Allah, property have been destroyed and the pathways blocked. Pray Allah to to stop the rain.” (Sahih al-Bukhari 1:137)

Another narration tells us that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) once observed a person during the sermon who was hurrying over people’s shoulders. The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) told him: "Sit, for you have inconvenienced [the people]." (Sunan al-Nasa’i 207, Abi Dawud)

It is quite clear that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not order him to perform any prayer, but told him to sit down quickly. In another narration of Jabir (radiallahu anh) it states: [On one occasion] the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) positioned himself on the pulpit and said, “Be seated.” Ibn Mas’ud (radiallahu anh) [who had just entered] sat down instantly by the door of the masjid. When the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) saw him he said, “Come forth, O ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud.” (Sunan Abi Dawud 156)

Again, the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not order him to perform prayer, but instead told him to come forth and sit. A Hadith in Sahih Muslim states:
‘Umar (radiallahu anh) was once delivering the sermon when ‘Uthman (radiallahu anh) arrived. ‘Umar (radiallahu anh) admonished him for not having performing the ritual bath [ghusl], but did not order him to perform any prayer. (Sahih Muslim 1:280)

None of these incidents indicate a command for prayer while the sermon is in progress. In fact, they instruct that one should sit down while the imam is delivering the sermon, which proves that the one occasion on which the
Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ordered Sulayk al-Ghatafani (radiallahu anh) to stand and pray was due to another reason. The Hadith of Sulayk therefore cannot be used to prove the desirability of prayer during the Friday sermon.

The full account of Sulayk al-Ghatafani’s incident is as follows: Once, while the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was sitting on the pulpit waiting to begin the sermon, a Companion named Sulayk ibn Hudba al-Ghatafani (radiallahu anh) who had on very torn and worn clothing entered the masjid. The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), after seeing his poverty-stricken state, ordered him to stand and pray. He did this so the other Companions could also observe his condition. The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) remained silent until he had finished his prayer; then, after seeing that the other Companions had taken a look at him, he encouraged them to contribute to him, which they did with open hearts. One can clearly see that this was a very special circumstance, in which the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ordered Sulayk to stand up and pray so that his condition would become known to the Companions. Consequently, this command cannot be classified as generally applicable as it was issued only once to this particular Companion.

(b) The above explanation should be sufficient to understand the true nature of the
incident. Another explanation mentioned by some scholars is that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) gave the order to pray before commencing the sermon and then waited silently until the Companion had completed his prayer. The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not recite or say anything while Sulayk prayed, as is understood from a Hadith in Sahih Muslim: "Sulayk al-Ghatafani (radiallahu anh) entered the Masjid on Friday while the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was sitting on the pulpit [and had not yet stood for the sermon].” (Sahih Muslim 1:287)

It is a proven fact that the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) would deliver his sermons standing. Hence, for him to be sitting down (as the narration states) means that he had not yet begun the sermon; so Sulayk’s (radiallahu anh) prayer was not performed during the Messenger’s (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) sermon but before it. This point is further substantiated by Imam Nasa’i’s (rahmatullahi alaih) inclusion of this narration under a chapter entitled, “Chapter on Prayer Before the Sermon.” This clearly indicates that according to Imam Nasa’i (rahmatullahi alaih), this incident took place before the sermon had begun.

(c) There are some narrations, however, which indicate that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had already begun the sermon when Sulayk (radiallahi anh) entered. The meaning of these narrations is that he was just about to begin the sermon when Sulayk (radiallahu anh) walked in.

(d) There are also other narrations which mention that Allah’s Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) interrupted his sermon and remained silent until Sulayk (radiallahu anh) finished his prayer. The narration in Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba contains the following words: "The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), when ordering the Companion to perform two rak’ats, discontinued his sermon until he had finished the two rak’ats." (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2:110), and the narration of Daraqutni contains the following words: "Anas (radiallahu anh) narrates that a person from the Qays tribe entered while the
Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was delivering the sermon. The Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) told him to stand up and perform two rak‘ats and discontinued the sermon until the person completed his prayer." (Sunan al-Daraqutni 2:15 U)

This means that the Companion had completed his Salat and was no longer
engaged in it while the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was delivering his sermon.

(e) Yet another explanation for this incident is that, since the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had interrupted his sermon and begun to converse with him, the prohibition of talking or praying was lifted and Sulayk (radiallahu anh) had to no longer adhere to the command “remain silent and listen.” Therefore, for him to perform two rak’ats while the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) remained silent (and waited for him) was permissible. Ibn al-’Arabi (rahmatullahi alaih) has offered this explanation and considered it most accurate.

(f) It has been already mentioned that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam)
ordered Sulayk (radiallahu anh) to rise and perform the prayer so as to expose his poverty- stricken state in front of the Companions. In this regard, a narration in Sunan al-Tirmidhi and al-Nasa’i from Abu Sa’id (radiallahu anh) states: "A person entered the Masjid in a shabby state." (Sunan al-Tirmidhi 1:93 U, al-
Nasa’i 1:208 U)

(g) Another point that should not be overlooked here is that for the two rak‘ats to be considered tahiyyat al-masjid, they must be offered immediately upon entering the Masjid and prior to sitting down. However, we find in some versions of this narration that Sulayk (radiallahu anh) had sat down upon his arrival, after which the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had instructed him to stand and pray. The narration in Sahih Muslim states: “Stand up and pray,” (Sahih Muslim 1:287) and another narration states: "Sulayk (radiallahu anh) sat down without praying, and the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) asked him if he had performed two rak’ats? He replied that he had not, so the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ordered him to stand up and perform two rak’ats. (Sahih Muslim 1:287)

This proves that he was ordered to stand up and pray in order to reveal his
condition to the other Companions.

When the above points are taken into consideration, it makes it quite difficult to claim that tahiyyat al-masjid was permitted at the time of the sermon. The incident of Sulayk (radiallahu anh) was a unique and isolated one, and not one instructing the whole Umma to pray at that time, especially when there are other narrations that clearly prohibit its performance.

2) Another seemingly contradictory narration is as follows: Jabir (radiallahu anh) narrates that once while the Messenger of Allah (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was delivering the sermon he said, “When you [enter the masjid] and find the imam delivering the sermon… or [he said] “[...] and find that the imam has arrived [for the sermon], you should perform two rak’ats.” (Sahih al-Bukhari 1:156)

This is another narration that is used to establish the desirability of tahiyyatal-
Masjid at the time of the sermon. The same words are narrated by Imam Muslim (rahmatullahi alaih) in his Sahih as part of the narration of Sulayk al-Ghatafani (radiallahi anh) (Sahih Muslim1:287)

It can be said that this narration is in contradiction with the command of the Holy Qur’an and many other rigorously authenticated hadiths that have already been mentioned above. Many explanations have been offered in order to remove the conflict between this Hadith and the hadiths of prohibition. One explanation is that the phrase, “delivering his sermon,” in the narration, actually means, “about to begin the sermon” (i.e. the imam was sitting waiting to begin the sermon). This is one way of reconciling the narrations so that no contradiction remains.

Otherwise, the second way to deal with this issue is to leave it as an independent rigorously authenticated narration in conflict with the other rigorously authenticated narrations of prohibition; and determine, in the light of the principles of Hadith [usul al-hadith], which of the narrations are more superior and stronger.

The result of such an analysis would be that the hadiths of prohibition presented by the Hanafis are stronger for a number of reasons:

(a) The narrations used by the Hanafis are of a prohibitive nature (i.e. they prohibit the prayer at a particular time), whereas this narration (hadith 2) is of a permissive nature. One of the principles of Hadith [usul al-hadith] is that when there is a conflict between hadiths, a Hadith prohibiting something is considered superior to one that permits it. Therefore, since the hadiths presented by the Hanafis are of a prohibitive nature, they are considered superior to those hadiths which are of a permissive nature (i.e. Hadith 2).

(b) The narrations of prohibition presented by the Hanafis are more in harmony with the implications of the above mentioned Qur’anic verses, which prohibit anything that would distract a person from listening to the sermon.

(c) The narrations presented by the Hanafis are substantiated by the practice of
many of the Companions (radiallahu anhum) and Followers (rahmatullahi alaihim), as has been previously detailed; whereas this narration, if taken as an independent narration, is only supported by the lone narration of Sulayk (radiallahu anh).

(e) There is greater caution in acting upon the hadiths prohibiting tahiyyat al- Masjid at the time of the sermon than upon those permitting it, since tahiyyat al- Masjid is not considered an obligatory prayer in any opinion. While holding it permissible, neglecting it would not be considered a sin. However, if one were to pray during the sermon while holding the view that it is prohibited, he would be considered sinful for going against what is believed to be a prohibition.

Conclusion

Many narrations state that the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had discontinued his sermon while Sulayk (radiallahu anh) performed his prayer. What would happen today if many people began to arrive late, and worse still, all at different times (as is to be observed nowadays in the masjids)? How many times and for how long would the imam remain silent, and when would he be able to complete the sermon?

The Hanafis have taken all these aspects into consideration in forming their opinion. They have adhered to the hadiths of prohibition and have answered and explained all the seemingly conflicting narrations. Their view has also been fully substantiated by the statements of various Companions (radiallahu anhum) and Followers (rahmatullahi alaihim). Therefore, we can safely conclude that after taking all the above points into consideration, it will be prohibited to perform two rak’ats of tahiyyat al-masjid after the imam has started his sermon.

_________________________________
إنـما الأعـمـال بالنيات وإنـمـا لكـل امـرئ ما نـوى

[Be_Muslim]

Asslam-O-Alaikum my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Please can any one tell me the what is a difference between a Hanbali, Wahhabi and Salafi. I thought these three sects were the same but people say that there is a difference.
I think these three are same because these sects do not go to shrines which make these sects the same and these three pray same, fast same, praying timings are same so whats the difference?
Please also state a difference and give explanation.

[Usman]

Asslam-O-Alaikum my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Please can any one tell me the what is a difference between a Hanbali, Wahhabi and Salafi. I thought these three sects were the same but people say that there is a difference.
I think these three are same because these sects do not go to shrines which make these sects the same and these three pray same, fast same, praying timings are same so whats the difference?
Please also state a difference and give explanation.

Wa'alaikumus salaam wr wb,

Hanbali : School of Fiqh
Wahabi : After the thoughts of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab an Najdi Rahimahullah, generally after the ideology of his movement to rid the Haramayn of various innovations and elements of Shirk that had arised at that time. On the other hand, he and his disciples started deeming many things that were not shirk, as shirk. Hence they became rather known for their extremism in this regard.
Salafi : Someone who adheres to the way of the pious predecessors of Islam. Unfortunately, this definition suits present day salafis as much as the word "Pure Milk" suits any Milk commercially available in Pakistan or India. The terminology and the habit of calling oneself salafi and their way as "Salafi" da'wah was started by Late Nasiruddin Al-Albani Rahimahullah. Him and the contemporaries of his considered adhereing to a school of Fiqh as shirk and labelling oneself as Hanafi/Maliki/Shafii/Hanbali as wrong and a form of Shirk. So they labelled themselves as Salafis.

[Be_Muslim]

So In you sight which one is the best. Hanbali or Wahhabi or Salafi

[Usman]

So In you sight which one is the best. Hanbali or Wahhabi or Salafi

Assalaamu alaikum,
There are Ahnaaf(Hanafis) who are Innovators and there are Hanafis who have erroneous beleifs i.e. against Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah. Same goes for Hanbalis, if you follow Hanbali Madhab in your practice and have the aqeedah of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah, that should suffice, no need to call yourself a Wahabi. In my view, adherance to the Hanbali school with the right aqeedah is all that should matter.

[Be_Muslim]

But I think Hanbalis are the part of ahle sunnah

[searchtrue99]

But I think Hanbalis are the part of ahle sunnah

I agree with you. This is true.

[shawn52]

But I think Hanbalis are the part of ahle sunnah

Yeah i am too agree with this statement...

[aslamjiffry]

IM a Shafii Madhab... Alhamdulillah........... :) and the all 4 madhabis are Ahlus Sunnah.............

[Mostakq]

Salamun alikum,
If anyone wants to find out which sect in islam is the best and right,he should look at the other sects of islam besides these four sects of ahle sunnah as prophet said that there would be many sects after him and only one would be right.

[Arfatzafar]

IM a Shafii Madhab... Alhamdulillah........... :) and the all 4 madhabis are Ahlus Sunnah.............

you're right.

[Arfatzafar]

Salamun alikum,
If anyone wants to find out which sect in islam is the best and right,he should look at the other sects of islam besides these four sects of ahle sunnah as prophet said that there would be many sects after him and only one would be right.

akhi, these're 4 madhab n not sect.

[Arfatzafar]

Bismillahir rahmanir rahim:
no doubt, ibne abdulwahab rh.a. Was a great aalim but he was not perfect. So he followed Hz Imam Ibne Hambal rh.a. If you go through the history, you will see that all Mohaddisin ikram rh.a. Were related to either prevalent madhab. But they weren't follower of them like us,the common men.
Taqlid of either mazhab is obligatory for all of us. Sometimes it looks awkward when we, due to lacking in deep knowledge of Quran o Sunnah n history, begin to criticize it. It is nothing but our ignorance. We can't prove any hadis sahih or zaeef until mohaddisin rh.a. Are followed blindly. See, what's taqleed ? Accepting the saying or doing of a ummati without asking for dalil is taqleed. Now think, what's is hadis ? It's is the doings of mohaddisin(authors) and sayings of mohaddisin (narrators). How can we say that a particular hadis was narrated by a particular narrator? Was the narrator Siqah?
Did our prophet s.a.w. Ordered us to follow Bukhari or Muslim or any other book ? Did our Sahaba Ikram rz.a. Followed these books?
Did our prophet s.a.w. Said that this hadis is sahih n this hadis is zaeef? This is the research of muhaddisin rh.a. which may be right or wrong.
If you say,we have usool e hadis to judge the ahadis. Then Q may be asked, who wrote these usul? Certainly they were also mohaddisin who wrote them. Which usool e hadis are followed? The same which came into existence after 800 years. So how n why these usool e hadees can be followed?
Bukhari sharif is the best n most authentic book after The Noble Quran. Agreed. But when it was said so about it? After 500 years!. So why this thought should be followed.? Bcoz We dont have any proof form hadis?.
Moreover, Bukhari was completed in 233 hijri, so which ahadis were followed before this period? Why we dont follow them? If you say all those ahadis are in sihah sitta, what's the proof? It's not corroborated with hadis?
These six famous books of hadis were denominated as sihah sitta in 500 hijri. Why we should accept it without authentic proof?. We believe in saying of muhaddisin without any authentic proof. Why?
Moreover, mohaddisin rh.a. have big differences. One mohaddis say 'this hadis is sahih others say-zaeef '. Is this not the fact. Mohaddisin rh.a. Had objections on 80/100/300 narrators of Bukhari, if it's accepted then, 18.60%/23.25%/69.76% Bukhari is zaeef from this point of view. During the Khairulqurun all ahadis were sahih. So brother without doing TAQLID, there is no way to believe in ahadis.
I dont regard Nasiruddin albani sb as a great mohaddis, rather, he had harmed the hadis. See, he had declared Tirmizi 26.70%, Abudaood 23.47%, Ibne Maja 23.70%, Nas'ai 10.34% zaeef. Now what's the guaranty that rest of ahadis are sahih ? Now any other socalled mohaddis may declare many more ahadis of sihah sitta -zaeef. Will you follow him.?
What Hz a'imma arba rh.a.or mohaddisin rh.a. say is quite authentic. We have to follow them as a Muqallid.

[Arfatzafar]

Assalaamu alaikum,
There are Ahnaaf(Hanafis) who are Innovators and there are Hanafis who have erroneous beleifs i.e. against Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah. Same goes for Hanbalis, if you follow Hanbali Madhab in your practice and have the aqeedah of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah, that should suffice, no need to call yourself a Wahabi. In my view, adherance to the Hanbali school with the right aqeedah is all that should matter.

bro, so in your opinion ahnaf n hambali are not among ahlesunnat wal jamat.
Will you explain plz
1: what are the aqaid of ahlesunnat wal jamat
2; what about shafai n maliki
3: which sect your from

[Mahin Islam]

100 Examples illustrating the differences between sects
45. Is expression of intention necessary before ablution?
yes no no no

brother. as far as i know, this is incorrect. i could be mistaken.

[Zarwan Ali]

Bismillahir rahmanir rahim:
no doubt, ibne abdulwahab rh.a. Was a great aalim but he was not perfect. So he followed Hz Imam Ibne Hambal rh.a. If you go through the history, you will see that all Mohaddisin ikram rh.a. Were related to either prevalent madhab. But they weren't follower of them like us,the common men.
Taqlid of either mazhab is obligatory for all of us. Sometimes it looks awkward when we, due to lacking in deep knowledge of Quran o Sunnah n history, begin to criticize it. It is nothing but our ignorance. We can't prove any hadis sahih or zaeef until mohaddisin rh.a. Are followed blindly. See, what's taqleed ? Accepting the saying or doing of a ummati without asking for dalil is taqleed. Now think, what's is hadis ? It's is the doings of mohaddisin(authors) and sayings of mohaddisin (narrators). How can we say that a particular hadis was narrated by a particular narrator? Was the narrator Siqah?
Did our prophet s.a.w. Ordered us to follow Bukhari or Muslim or any other book ? Did our Sahaba Ikram rz.a. Followed these books?
Did our prophet s.a.w. Said that this hadis is sahih n this hadis is zaeef? This is the research of muhaddisin rh.a. which may be right or wrong.
If you say,we have usool e hadis to judge the ahadis. Then Q may be asked, who wrote these usul? Certainly they were also mohaddisin who wrote them. Which usool e hadis are followed? The same which came into existence after 800 years. So how n why these usool e hadees can be followed?
Bukhari sharif is the best n most authentic book after The Noble Quran. Agreed. But when it was said so about it? After 500 years!. So why this thought should be followed.? Bcoz We dont have any proof form hadis?.
Moreover, Bukhari was completed in 233 hijri, so which ahadis were followed before this period? Why we dont follow them? If you say all those ahadis are in sihah sitta, what's the proof? It's not corroborated with hadis?
These six famous books of hadis were denominated as sihah sitta in 500 hijri. Why we should accept it without authentic proof?. We believe in saying of muhaddisin without any authentic proof. Why?
Moreover, mohaddisin rh.a. have big differences. One mohaddis say 'this hadis is sahih others say-zaeef '. Is this not the fact. Mohaddisin rh.a. Had objections on 80/100/300 narrators of Bukhari, if it's accepted then, 18.60%/23.25%/69.76% Bukhari is zaeef from this point of view. During the Khairulqurun all ahadis were sahih. So brother without doing TAQLID, there is no way to believe in ahadis.
I dont regard Nasiruddin albani sb as a great mohaddis, rather, he had harmed the hadis. See, he had declared Tirmizi 26.70%, Abudaood 23.47%, Ibne Maja 23.70%, Nas'ai 10.34% zaeef. Now what's the guaranty that rest of ahadis are sahih ? Now any other socalled mohaddis may declare many more ahadis of sihah sitta -zaeef. Will you follow him.?
What Hz a'imma arba rh.a.or mohaddisin rh.a. say is quite authentic. We have to follow them as a Muqallid.
Sir for your information all Ulemas of Ahle Sunnah greed that these books contain week Hadees to even the collectors themselves said about some Hadees in their book that they are Zaeed and if you want to challenge the great Sheikh Nasir Albani than challenge him by proof no Ulema to till this day have dared challenged his work

[ahamed_sharif]

Sir for your information all Ulemas of Ahle Sunnah greed that these books contain week Hadees to even the collectors themselves said about some Hadees in their book that they are Zaeed and if you want to challenge the great Sheikh Nasir Albani than challenge him by proof no Ulema to till this day have dared challenged his work

People who follow him only call him by names like "great mujaddid", great muhaddith etc.

Just common sense should prevail. For 1400 years there were no partition in hadeeth books. Why someone just created a partition of hadeeth books into dhaeef and saheeh and everyone started claiming him to be mujaddid, the muhaddith of all periods etc. Even today there are expert hadeeth scholars, they won't name the shyakh as "the mujaddid, great muhaddith".

It is common muslims OR who have attachment with him do ghuloo (exaggeration)

[Zarwan Ali]

People who follow him only call him by names like "great mujaddid", great muhaddith etc.

Just common sense should prevail. For 1400 years there were no partition in hadeeth books. Why someone just created a partition of hadeeth books into dhaeef and saheeh and everyone started claiming him to be mujaddid, the muhaddith of all periods etc. Even today there are expert hadeeth scholars, they won't name the shyakh as "the mujaddid, great muhaddith".

It is common muslims OR who have attachment with him do ghuloo (exaggeration)
Sir no one has challenged his work because still those who have even thought of it know they will fail that is why they have not bothered to challenge him Sir and these Zaeef Hadees were already in these books Sir and many of them already told by the same scholars who collected them Sir first get knowledge of what is Hadees how it is collected than challenge the Sheikh his works are now even taught by many of those scholars who initially opposed him are not from his school of thought

[At Tayyib]

Sir no one has challenged his work because still those who have even thought of it know they will fail that is why they have not bothered to challenge him Sir and these Zaeef Hadees were already in these books Sir and many of them already told by the same scholars who collected them Sir first get knowledge of what is Hadees how it is collected than challenge the Sheikh his works are now even taught by many of those scholars who initially opposed him are not from his school of thought

Why don't you take up the challenge, since you term yourself as a Salafi yet you blindly follow someone and his research who was from your era. So much for being a Salafi

[ahamed_sharif]

Sir no one has challenged his work because still those who have even thought of it know they will fail that is why they have not bothered to challenge him Sir and these Zaeef Hadees were already in these books Sir and many of them already told by the same scholars who collected them Sir first get knowledge of what is Hadees how it is collected than challenge the Sheikh his works are now even taught by many of those scholars who initially opposed him are not from his school of thought

No one has challenged his work. And most of ulema present today have IGNORED his work.

May be you also should do some home work, don't do taqleed. Think independently.

1. Why was ummah, for 1400 years, including the great muhadditeen or experts in the field were quiet about the dhaeef ahadeeth along with the saheeh ahadeeth in hadeeth books.

2. What is special about just keeping a partition between dhaeef and saheeh ahadeeth. That work can be done by an computer expert having knowledge in database management. How can the database manager could be called as mujaddid, the great muhaddith of all times etc.


Sheikh his works are now even taught by many of those scholars who initially opposed him are not from his school of thought

Yes, I too have read that fiqh experts quote him. This to convince shaykh's own followers. Before the entry of shaykh, fiqh did exists. Now to convince the muqallids of the shaykh, his comments are also included.

[At Tayyib]

No one has challenged his work. And most of ulema present today have IGNORED his work.

May be you also should do some home work, don't do taqleed. Think independently.

1. Why was ummah, for 1400 years, including the great muhadditeen or experts in the field were quiet about the dhaeef ahadeeth along with the saheeh ahadeeth in hadeeth books.

2. What is special about just keeping a partition between dhaeef and saheeh ahadeeth. That work can be done by an computer expert having knowledge in database management. How can the database manager could be called as mujaddid, the great muhaddith of all times etc.

Muhadditheen's (Hadith Masters) job is to collect, record and transmit the Ahadith. From them, there are a group who specialised in Grading the transmission of Hadith ie the chain of narration or sanad. Hence, When the Muhadditheen grade a Hadith as Sahih, it is meant that the narrators are trustworthy and upright. If a narrator has a defect like weak in memory etc. the chain of narration will be graded as a low grade ie Dhaeef.

The Fuqaha take all of this from the Muhadditheen and analyse the transmitted text keeping in view the efforts of the Hadith Specialists. The Fuqaha will draw from the Quran, Hadith, the lives of the Sahabah, Ijma and deliberate on them by the secondary function of Qiyas.

[Sulaiman84]

This excerpt is taken from Mufti Ayub Jeena's book, Who are the blind followers?



References of English were posted but most Arabic references were not.



What is the difference between a Faqih and a Muhaddith?


A: A Muhaddith is one whose life is to preserve the sacred words, etc. of Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam. For this, he exerts himself in gathering the Ahadith – whether by memory as in the case of the Mutaqaddimin (i.e. early scholars), or by script as in the case of the latter scholars. He also gathers their chain of narration, and is meticulous about every vowel, letter etc. He also studies and scrutinizes the chains of narrations and the life-story of each and every narrator. All of the above sciences are subdivided into many other fields, and volumes have been compiled about each one of them. He needs to have a basic understanding of all the principles relating to the above sciences as well as a comprehensive knowledge about his field of specialization. Therefore, the Muhaddithin have been divided into many categories, and some of them have super-specialized in only one or two sciences amongst the numerous sciences of Hadith.

A Faqih (jurist) on the other hand is one whose life is devoted to understanding the purport of the sacred words of Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, and acquiring proficiency therein. In order to achieve this he should possess a basic understanding of the various sciences of Hadith as well. He also gathers Hadith and abstracts common meanings from them. He also has the ability to explain the apparent contradictions that are found in the Ahadith and untie their knots. He has a deep understanding of the Qur’an and is well versed in the various sciences of the Arabic language as well He also possesses the knowledge of the statements of the Sahabah Radhiyallahu ‘anhum, and has a comprehensive understanding of the principles of analogy.

Muhaddithin were always in larger number than the Fuqaha. And those who managed to excel in both were even fewer. Shaikh ‘Abdul-Fattah Abu Ghuddah rahimahullahu ta’ala writes: “And those who gathered between “Riwayah” [i.e. the science of Hadith] and “Dirayah” [i.e. the science of Fiqh] were very few. Hafiz Ar-Ramahurmuzi narrates in his book Al-muhdith al-fasil bain ar-rawi wal-wa’i on page 60, from Anas ibn Sirin who stated: “I came to Kufah and saw four thousand seeking Hadith, and four hundred who were studying Fiqh”…63 This is because of the complexity of Fiqh which is based on (vast) knowledge and deep understanding of the book of Allah, the Sunnah and the statements of Sahabah Radhiyallahu ‘anhum, etc. It also requires one to have the capacity to gather the various proofs, and preponderate64 amongst them; and possess a deep insight into the different purports within the Arabic language as regards “Balaghah”, “Majaz”, “Haqiqah”, “Kinayah”, etc. There is therefore no doubt about the fact regarding the ease in mere narrating for that person whose mind is focused on memorizing, absorbing and narrating only. It is for this reason that more people devoted themselves to specializing in “Riwayah”.

Whilst the Mujtahid is the one who has comprehensive knowledge of both the above fields and others as well. The term Faqih may also be used with reference to the Mujtahidin.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
63 Shaikh ‘Abdul-Fattah Rahimahullahu ta’ala quotes on the footnotes on ar-rafa’ wa at-takmeel, page 323, from tabaqat al-hanabilah of Ibn S’ad 1/329 that Muhammad ibn Yazid Al-Mustamli said: “I asked Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal about ‘Abdur-Razzaq (ibn Hammam As-San’ani, the teacher of Imam Ahmad and the author of Al-Musannaf, etc): “Did he have Fiqh?” Imam Ahmad replied: “How scarce isn’t Fiqh amongst the scholars of Hadith”.

64 i.e. determine which of the two or more proofs hold more strength. This is known as tarjih.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________


A few examples are given hereunder to elucidate the difference between a Muhaddith and a Faqih.

1) Muhammad ibn ‘Abdullah ibn Al-Hakam was asked: Who is a Faqih? He replied: “That person who extracts one principle from the Qur’an or Sunnah in which he was not preceded by anyone, then divides that principle into one hundred branches”. The person asked: Who is it that has such power? In reply he said: “Muhammad ibn Idris Ash-Shafi’i (-this was the name of Imam Shafi’i Rahimahulllahu ta’ala).

2) At times Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimahullahu ta’ala used to aske about a particular mas’alah whilst in the presence of his teacher Imam A’mash Rahimahullahu ta’ala – the famous and renowned Tabi’i and scholar of Hadith and Qira’at-: “What do you state about the following…” He would give a reply according to his deductions concerning the mas’alah. Imam A’mash would then enquire from him the substantiation for his answer. The following is an example of how he used to reply: “You narrated to us from Abu Salih, who narrated from Abu Hurairah and from Abu Wa’il who narrated from ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, and from Abu Iyas from Abu Mas’ud Al-Ansari Radhiyallahu ‘anhu that Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam said: man dalla ‘ala khairin ka anna lahu mithlu ajri fa’ilihi; and you narrated to us from Abu Salih from Abu Hurairah Radhiyallahu ‘anhu that a man said to Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam: O Rasul of Allah! I was performing Salah in my home when a man entered upon me, so I felt pleasure in that. Rasulullah Salallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam replied to him: laka ajraan, ajrus sirri wa ajrul ‘alaniyah; and you narrated to us from Abul Hakam, from Huzaifah Radhiyallahu ‘anhu from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam…; and you narrated to us from Abuz-Zubair from Jabir Radhiyallahu ‘anhu from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam; and you narrated to us from Yazid Ar-Raqqashi from Anas Radhiyallahu ‘anhu from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam…”

Imam A’mash Rahimahullahu ta’ala would then exclaim: “Enough! You wish to narrate to me in one moment what I narrated to you in 100 days. I was not aware that you have practical application to all these Ahadith. O Fuqaha! You are the physicians and we [the Muhaddithin] are the dispensers. And you, O man [speaking to Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimahullahu ta’ala] have gathered both sides.

3) Muhammad ibn Samma’ah narrates: “Isa ibn Aban (a famous Muhaddith and a well known Hanafi scholar) used to perform Salah with us (in the Masjid where Imam Muhammad ibnul Hasan Rahimahullahu ta’ala-the student of Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimahullahu ta’ala and the third highest authority of the Hanafi Math-hab – used to perform Salah and thereafter have discussions on Fiqh). I used to invite him to come to Muhammad ibnul Hasan Rahimahullahu ta’ala (to learn from him). He would say in reply: “These are people who contradict Hadith”. Isa Rahimahullahu ta’ala was a scholar who had memorized a substantial amount of Hadith. One morning he performed Fajr Salah with us, and it happened to be the very same day Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala was going to conduct his discourse. I did not allow him to leave until he (also) sat in the gathering. At the close (of the discussion) I took him to Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala and said: “This is the son of your brother (in Islam) Aban ibn Sadaqah, the scribe. He is brilliant, and has the knowledge of Hadith. I invited him to you but he refused saying that we contradict Hadith”. Imam Muhammad addressed him and said: “O my son! What do see us contradicting in Hadith? Do not bear witness against us until you hear from us. So Imam Isa Rahimahullahu ta’ala asked him questions relating to twenty-five chapters of Hadith, and in each chapter Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala answered (narrating to him the Ahadith of these subjects) and would inform him of all that was abrogated therein with proof and evidence. After we left, Isa ibn Aban Rahimahullahu ta’ala turned to me and said: “There was a barrier between myself and nur (divine light), which has now been lifted! I was not aware that there existed a man in Allah’s kingdom like this, whom He has disclosed for the people”. Isa Rahimahullahu ta’ala then accompanied Imam Muhammad Rahimahullahu ta’ala and did not separate from him, until he became a Faqih by him”.

From the above three examples we get a vivid picture about the difference between a Faqih and a Muhaddith.68


__________________________________________________ _________________________________

68 This difference has also been pointed out in the following Ahadith:

1. Imam Tirmidhi reports from Zaid ibn Thabit Radhiyallahu ‘anhu that Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam stated (during his farewell sermon, in Hajjatul Wida): “May Allah keep that person fresh and radiant who hears from us a statement and remembers it until he conveys it; as how many a carrier of Fiqh there is to one who has a greater understanding of Fiqh than him, and how many a carrier of Fiqh is not a Faqih.” The last two statements of this Hadith refers to a Muhaddith as he merely carries the knowledge of Hadith from which Fiqh is derived, and conveys it to the Faqih who then extracts its Fiqh from it.

2. Imam Bukhari (Hadith no. 79) and Muslim (Hadith no. 2282) Rahimahallahu ta’ala report from Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari Radhiyallahu ‘anhu (D: 52 AH) who narrates from Rasulullah Sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam: “The example of that knowledge and guidance which I have brought is like that of abundant rain which pours onto a stretch of land. Some areas are fertile and accept the water (by absorbing it). So they grow grass and a great deal of plants. There are also barren patches, which hold the water (above without absorbing it), through which Allah benefits the people. So they use it for drinking, to quench the thirst of others, and irrigating (their lands). A third group of patches exist that are plains, which cannot hold water (above), nor grow anything. So that is the example of the person who accomplishes “Fiqh” in the Din of Allah, and Allah benefits him with that which He sent me with. Hence, knows (learns) and teaches; and the example of him who does not lift a head (i.e. no care) to it, whereby he does not accept (absorb) that which I have been sent with”. This Hadith is further explained by Maulana Sarfaraz in his book, Al-kalamul mufid p. 71 with the following words: “The first piece of land may be regarded to be the Fuqaha, that receive the spiritual rain i.e. Qur’an and Hadith, and use it to quench (solve) the various problems experienced by man in his diverse spheres. The second piece of land is likened to the Muhaddithin, who gather the spiritual rain of Qur’an and Hadith and collect it in the dams of their memories and quench the thirst of mankind according to their expertise. The third piece of land can be likened to a lay person who is not a Muhaddith, nor a Faqih, he is not able to benefit himself (directly from this spiritual rain) and nor is he able to benefit others.”
__________________________________________________ _________________________________



A Muhaddith preserves the Ahadtih of Rasulullah Sallalahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, and Faqih is the one who extracts the Din of Allah ta’ala there from. Thus, in practice, the Faqih ought to be followed. It is for this reason that Sufyan ibn ‘Uyaynah Rahimahullahu ta’ala, an illustrious scholar of Hadith, used to say: “At-tasleemu lil fuqaha salamatun fid-din” Submitting to the Fuqaha is safety in Din”. In a similar manner, Imam ‘Ali ibnul J’ad Rahimahullahu ta’ala says about the famous Muhaddith among the Tabi’in, Zuhair ibn Mu’awiyah70 that a man came to him (to learn). He asked him: “Where do you come from?” (i.e. where were you learning previously). The man replied: “from Abu Hanifah”. Imam Zuhair remarked: “Your going to Abu Hanifah for one day is more beneficial for you than staying with me for one month”.



__________________________________________________ _________________________________

70 Zuhair ibn Mu’awiyah is one regarding whom Shu’aib ibn Harb said: “Zuhair is a greater Hafiz of Hadith than twenty the like of Shu’bah”, whereas Shu’bah himself was known as ‘Amirul Mu’minin fil Hadith’.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________


It has also been narrated about ‘Abdullah ibn Wahb – one of the most eminent students of Imam Malik and an outstanding scholar of Hadith Rahimahumallahu ta’ala – that he stated: “I met (i.e. studied under) three hundred and sixty ‘Ulama, and had it not been for Imam Malik and Imam Laith ibn Sa’d Rahimahumallahu ta’ala I would have gone astray in knowledge”. He is also reported to have stated: “Every student of Hadith who does not have an Imam (guide/leader) in Fiqh is astray. And had it not been for Imam Malik and Laith we would have been astray”. He once said: “In ‘Ilm we followed four: two in Egypt and two in Makkah: Laith ibn Sa’d and ‘Amr ibn Harith in Egypt, and Malik and Majishun in Madinah. Had it not been for them we would have been astray”. It is probably for this reason that Hafiz Ibn ‘Abdil-Barr (D: 423 AH) Rahimahullahu ta’ala states: “As for studying Hadith in the manner that students of today study it, without obtaining some knowledge of Fiqh and contemplating its meanings (properly), this is Makruh according to a group of ‘Ulama.



End of answer from excerpt.

[amr123]

Sir no one has challenged his work because still those who have even thought of it know they will fail that is why they have not bothered to challenge him Sir and these Zaeef Hadees were already in these books Sir and many of them already told by the same scholars who collected them Sir first get knowledge of what is Hadees how it is collected than challenge the Sheikh his works are now even taught by many of those scholars who initially opposed him are not from his school of thought

Al-Albani Unveiled: An exposition of his errors
http://nmusba.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/al-albani-unveiled-an-exposition-of-his-errors-sayf-ad-din-ahmed-ibn-muhammad/

[Zarwan Ali]

Al-Albani Unveiled: An exposition of his errors
http://nmusba.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/al-albani-unveiled-an-exposition-of-his-errors-sayf-ad-din-ahmed-ibn-muhammad/
Sir majority who condemned his work are now teaching his work in their own institutions so most of his critic are now quite and teaching his works

[fikrimubarock]

assalamualaikum. my friend. im new in here. please tell me..., based on madhab hanbali, "where is ALLAH ?"

[willybarca]

i think all muslims have the same idea of allah, i mean as muslim i dont imagine nature of allah, and u shouldn't, if u think too much of allahs nature like where is he how is he, probably ull go to the wrong path,there is ways to get close to allah, by praying and doing good deeds, by thinking of this great perfect world and his creations, hanbali shafi or shia cant answer where is he , u have to fix ur iman to find ur answer, everyone should do that

[abuzayd2k]

i think all muslims have the same idea of allah, i mean as muslim i dont imagine nature of allah, and u shouldn't, if u think too much of allahs nature like where is he how is he, probably ull go to the wrong path,there is ways to get close to allah, by praying and doing good deeds, by thinking of this great perfect world and his creations, hanbali shafi or shia cant answer where is he , u have to fix ur iman to find ur answer, everyone should do that

:subh:

[Slave to Allah]

What are all the major differences between these four madhab's hanafi, shafi, malaki and humbali..!

Hanafi= Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions by his own)
Shafai= Ahl-e Hadith and Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions according to Hadith, and if something is not mentioned in Hadith then by own)
Hanbali= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)
Maliki= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)


What makes peoples to follow only one imam?

I think family customs because Quran says,

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.
Nisa:59


Why peoples feel it is difficult to follow all four imam's ?

Again, family customs. By the way, we can compare all these Imams with Quran and Sunnah and can follow and unfollow any of them.

[abuzayd2k]

Hanafi= Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions by his own)
Shafai= Ahl-e Hadith and Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions according to Hadith, and if something is not mentioned in Hadith then by own)
Hanbali= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)
Maliki= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)


I would like to express gratitude to the poster above for the kind input.

If the definitions given above may be found in some scholarly treatise, please provide a reference.

To give authentic information regarding the deen is the prerogative of the trained scholar, and not the lay person.

[amr123]

I would like to express gratitude to the poster above for the kind input.

If the definitions given above may be found in some scholarly treatise, please provide a reference.

To give authentic information regarding the deen is the prerogative of the trained scholar, and not the lay person.

What she mentioned is actually a misconception. Its not just the Hanafi and Shafi'i madhab that use Rai. All Madhabs use Rai. Its just that its used in varying levels.

[abuzayd2k]

What she mentioned is actually a misconception. Its not just the Hanafi and Shafi'i madhab that use Rai. All Madhabs use Rai. Its just that its used in varying levels.

:jazak:

[Mahin Islam]

Hanafi= Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions by his own)
Shafai= Ahl-e Hadith and Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions according to Hadith, and if something is not mentioned in Hadith then by own)
Hanbali= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)
Maliki= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)
:salam:
I'm sorry, but this is completely incorrect. While hanafis do use more ray than hanbalis, all 4 of the madhahib use BOTH hadith and ray, but to varying degrees. I'm surprised the people still use these misleading labels.

[Slave to Allah]

What she mentioned is actually a misconception. Its not just the Hanafi and Shafi'i madhab that use Rai. All Madhabs use Rai. Its just that its used in varying levels.

I read these titles in MA Islamiat's book.

[Mostakq]

assalamualaikum. my friend. im new in here. please tell me..., based on madhab hanbali, "where is ALLAH ?"


Where is Allah!How can Allah be in a place as He make the existence of all places?When there was no place in existence,Allah existed.so,place cannot grasp allah.Allah make the existence of time.so time cannot grasp Him.there are few sermons in Nahj Al Balagah about Allah.Those who are interested can read those for details.

[Maria al-Qibtiyya]

Hanafi= Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions by his own)
Shafai= Ahl-e Hadith and Ahl-e Rai (one who makes decisions according to Hadith, and if something is not mentioned in Hadith then by own)
Hanbali= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)
Maliki= Ahl-e Hadith (make tafseer of Quran with Hadith)



I think family customs because Quran says,

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.
Nisa:59



Again, family customs. By the way, we can compare all these Imams with Quran and Sunnah and can follow and unfollow any of them.

:salam:

Excuse my level of ignorance, I don't what's this Ahl-e Rai; can you please tell me what it means?


Plus what you said all about 4 madhabs , on what basis you said this, i mean have you studied all, therefore, you conclude this?

Thanks.

[Mahin Islam]

:salam:

Excuse my level of ignorance, I don't what's this Ahl-e Rai; can you please tell me what it means?


Plus what you said all about 4 madhabs , on what basis you said this, i mean have you studied all, therefore, you conclude this?

Thanks.

Ahl ur-Ray can be best translated as "people of opinion" (correct me if im wrong, guys). They are the people who make tafseer based on opinion. Ahl al-Hadeeth/athar make tafseer based on narrations.

as for what she said, i don't want to judge, but it is usually the salafi novices (followers of "manhaj ahl ul-hadeeth") who make this type of statement. She proably got it from a similar source. They tend to misunderstand the purpose of fiqh and usool, that is why they put hanafis under the "ray" label. Its just a matter of differences in usool.

[Mahin Islam]

assalamualaikum. my friend. im new in here. please tell me..., based on madhab hanbali, "where is ALLAH ?"

I cant believe that my reply to this post got deleted. Really guys? what did i do wrong?

[Maria al-Qibtiyya]

Ahl ur-Ray can be best translated as "people of opinion" (correct me if im wrong, guys). They are the people who make tafseer based on opinion. Ahl al-Hadeeth/athar make tafseer based on narrations.

as for what she said, i don't want to judge, but it is usually the salafi novices (followers of "manhaj ahl ul-hadeeth") who make this type of statement. She proably got it from a similar source. They tend to misunderstand the purpose of fiqh and usool, that is why they put hanafis under the "ray" label. Its just a matter of differences in usool.

:jazak:

[al-boriqee]

assalamualaikum. my friend. im new in here. please tell me..., based on madhab hanbali, "where is ALLAH ?"

السلام عليكم

This belongs in the aqeedah section.
All four madhaahib unanimously agreed by ijma that Allah is above the Throne, plain and simple.


What she mentioned is actually a misconception. Its not just the Hanafi and Shafi'i madhab that use Rai. All Madhabs use Rai. Its just that its used in varying levels.

Yes, that is correct



Excuse my level of ignorance, I don't what's this Ahl-e Rai; can you please tell me what it means?


Ahlu-Ra'i linguistically is denoting "people of opinion". In the istilaahi definition, it was used in a polemic regarding an outlook on the methods of derived law (Usool) and its conclusionary results (fiqh).

Those who were identified ahlu-ra'i were the Hanafis and their opposites were known as the ahlul-hadeeth, and they were the Maalikis, Shafi'is, and the Hanaabilah.

The contention between the two were more on Usool based frameworks, too much time to highlight here, and quite frankly unneccessary for those who will not have continuous studies as a student of knowledge.

One example is with the derivation of law. The framework of ahlul-hadeeth in a nutshell was to extract the principles of law from the scriptures, hence hadeeth. The Hanafis on the other hand, because of the environment of Kufa which was not a center of hadeeth, the Hanafi jurists had to derive the law from their understanding of what they knew, hence "opinion".

Likewise, in developing Usoolul-fiqh (principles of jurisprudence), they had to derive them from judgments (ahkaam) already passed by earlier jurists whereas in the ahlul-hadeeth approach, a principle was not derived from judgments, but from the scriptures which then translated to giving them the ability to make judgments. So each approach was the direct opposite of the other just on the deduction of law itself, not to mention other differences. Now, each approach has its benefit and this is essentially why the codification of the madhaahib essentially infused on general terms.

To make a long story extremely short, both had their own approaches to the derivation of law and these variances are essentially what is identified as the ahlul-hadeeth approach and the ahlu-ra'i approach. However, once Imaam ash-Shafa'i rahmatullahi alayh unified Usool in a more cohesive manner, it essentially sifted out most of these differences. Some differences remain, but these are for aspiring jurists to know and is of no value here.

I hope this clears the matter for you انشاء الله

السلام عليكم

[Maria al-Qibtiyya]

السلام عليكم


Those who were identified ahlu-ra'i were the Hanafis and their opposites were known as the ahlul-hadeeth, and they were the Maalikis, Shafi'is, and the Hanaabilah.

I hope this clears the matter for you انشاء الله

السلام عليكم

:ws:

Yeah that helped :jazak:

So do you mean Ahl-e-Hadith are shafi or maliki or hunbli in Fiqh?

[al-boriqi]

:ws:

Yeah that helped :jazak:

So do you mean Ahl-e-Hadith are shafi or maliki or hunbli in Fiqh?

yes, but it was an approach. There is no codified standard madhaab called ahlul-hadeeth. Nor is there one for ahlul-ra'i for that matter. Its merely an approach

Secondly, the magnitude of the dichotomy was most prolific in the early 2-3 hundred years. Essentially after the time of Imaam at-Tirmidhee, the dichotomy is not really that big of an issue. Only in the circles of knowledge fopr aspiring jurists like usooliyyeen or fuqaha, and students of hadeeth really go into the inner workings of the differences.

Lastly, do not extract from this that the Hanafiyyah are not from ahlul-hadeeth. All four madhaahib are essentially ahlul-hadeeth. Where they separate is a topic that is only touched by people learning the disciplines. Take this merely as a history lesson and respect each madhab's approach, even if you do not accord yourself to that view.

asalamu alaykum

[Maria al-Qibtiyya]

yes, but it was an approach. There is no codified standard madhaab called ahlul-hadeeth. Nor is there one for ahlul-ra'i for that matter. Its merely an approach

Secondly, the magnitude of the dichotomy was most prolific in the early 2-3 hundred years. Essentially after the time of Imaam at-Tirmidhee, the dichotomy is not really that big of an issue. Only in the circles of knowledge fopr aspiring jurists like usooliyyeen or fuqaha, and students of hadeeth really go into the inner workings of the differences.

Lastly, do not extract from this that the Hanafiyyah are not from ahlul-hadeeth. All four madhaahib are essentially ahlul-hadeeth. Where they separate is a topic that is only touched by people learning the disciplines. Take this merely as a history lesson and respect each madhab's approach, even if you do not accord yourself to that view.

asalamu alaykum

:jazak:

[fikrimubarock]

I cant believe that my reply to this post got deleted. Really guys? what did i do wrong?

i'm sorry sir... but i don't know anything about your answer that have deleted...

[fikrimubarock]

السلام عليكم

This belongs in the aqeedah section.
All four madhaahib unanimously agreed by ijma that Allah is above the Throne, plain and simple.



Yes, that is correct



Ahlu-Ra'i linguistically is denoting "people of opinion". In the istilaahi definition, it was used in a polemic regarding an outlook on the methods of derived law (Usool) and its conclusionary results (fiqh).

Those who were identified ahlu-ra'i were the Hanafis and their opposites were known as the ahlul-hadeeth, and they were the Maalikis, Shafi'is, and the Hanaabilah.

The contention between the two were more on Usool based frameworks, too much time to highlight here, and quite frankly unneccessary for those who will not have continuous studies as a student of knowledge.

One example is with the derivation of law. The framework of ahlul-hadeeth in a nutshell was to extract the principles of law from the scriptures, hence hadeeth. The Hanafis on the other hand, because of the environment of Kufa which was not a center of hadeeth, the Hanafi jurists had to derive the law from their understanding of what they knew, hence "opinion".

Likewise, in developing Usoolul-fiqh (principles of jurisprudence), they had to derive them from judgments (ahkaam) already passed by earlier jurists whereas in the ahlul-hadeeth approach, a principle was not derived from judgments, but from the scriptures which then translated to giving them the ability to make judgments. So each approach was the direct opposite of the other just on the deduction of law itself, not to mention other differences. Now, each approach has its benefit and this is essentially why the codification of the madhaahib essentially infused on general terms.

To make a long story extremely short, both had their own approaches to the derivation of law and these variances are essentially what is identified as the ahlul-hadeeth approach and the ahlu-ra'i approach. However, once Imaam ash-Shafa'i rahmatullahi alayh unified Usool in a more cohesive manner, it essentially sifted out most of these differences. Some differences remain, but these are for aspiring jurists to know and is of no value here.

I hope this clears the matter for you انشاء الله

السلام عليكم


alhamdulillah... thank you... now i'm sure as hanabilah believe ALLAH ala arsy istawa