Standing up during Milad-Mehfil

[MinSid]

There is a Masjid close to my house (2/3 minutes drive, 5/6 minutes walk) They are hardcore i guess you would call it barelwi but in Bangladesh I dont believe they called it that. So, most of the people there are from Bangladesh.

I usually don't go perform my prayers there but go to the other bigger masjid 6/7 minutes drive where various a'mals take place and jamaths also come there. I usually go to the closer masjid whenever I am running late.

Today, I went there with a friend to catch Zuhr Salaah but we missed one rakah. After the sunnahs they were having one of their "programs" (milad mehfil). We weren't sure what to do because we missed one rakah and by the time we finished our sunnah they had already started. We didn't want to be disrespectful, we decided to stay.

It went well but when they stood up for their "thingamajig" that they do, we stayed sitting. Few seconds later, an elderly man came rushing towards us and screamed at us, telling us to "leave the masjid if we are not willing to stand up." I told the brother that this is a masjid and the house of Allah, you can't tell us to leave like that. He even wen't straight to the Imam who was leading their prayers or whatever you call it, and told him to stop for a second because 2 guys are not standing up.

Few more brothers came and they kept motioning to a notice on the wall that was supposed to make it "mandatory" to stand up, whenever they have these functions. Some of the guys were nice about it and told us kindly to leave so there is no situation in the Masjid. We told them we are just sitting here quiet and calm not bothering anyone. Another guy told us to go upstairs and sit there but leave the gathering. So we just decided to walk out. I was fired up, felt like knocking someone out.

What do you guys suggest I should do? Should I just forget about it? Or should I go talk with the Imam. I mean the first guy was very disrespectful. If the guy came and told us calmly just leave or go upstairs we would walk out nicely. Any suggestions????

[theory]

Forgive my ignorance but what is milad mehfil? I can't say Ive heard of it before.

[1Message4all]

Salaam bro

I commend you for walking out peacefully in a situation that would get anyone fired up...If I were in your situation, I would go and speak to the imam alone and tell him your feelings and you thought was wrong...that he should have calmly told me...that other individuals that come to that masjid for the first time will see a outburst like this?...It is not the Islamic way to solve a solution...But I wouldn't be commanding and I would specially watch the tone of my voice witht he imam...low and respectful...regardlessof what you think of him...

Once you got all that out of your system...let the imam agree or disagree with you and then leave...It's always good to make people hear your thoughts so you can be at peace inside...but if they disagree, then leave, and know that what you refrain yourself form doing is all for the sake of Allah(swt) and the deen that he has perfected for us...INshallah your sins will be erased for such actions...

Salaam...

[Brother]

Barelwi's tend to be more extreme sometimes in these case; moreso than the salfi's on the other end of the spectrum...... it is a pity....

I recommend you to just ignore it..

Also, btw, would you mind telling me where around Paterson, NJ is a masjid with Jamaats and all... I frequently travel to the area, and have yet to discover such an active masjid.... Please advise, jazakallah.

[MinSid]

Paterson has a lot of work going on in terms of jamaths coming and going. Masjid Jalalabad is active. It is in downtown Paterson. Also, Masjid Umar has a few bros but Jalalalabad is the masjid. Ijtima will take place for NJ on 23rd of Sept.

Jazakallahu khair for the advice bros. Keep em coming.

I went back there for Asr just to see what is going on but no one said anything. I wanted to approach the Imam but hesitated. The elder that first scolded us was there but I just said Salam and bounced.

[Iqbal Muhammad Raakin]

Salaam.
If you thnk that the Imam would not be able to handle what you tell him i.e. it is going to cause more fithnah then I would advise you to leave it. But if the Imam looks as though he posesses a gentle soul then tell him your problems with it nicely insha Allah, and Allah (Glorified is He) knows best.
Salaam.

[faqir]

:salam:

I believe standing up for the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam is a valid Islamic opinion:

http://www.mawlid.net/standing_for_the_prophet.htm

If you object / disagree to standing up then you should probably leave because some of those present in the Masjid you described may, unfortunately, make a big issue about it.

Wasalam.

[mospike]

I always walk out. I think there is no harm in standing and reciting salwaat. It's about the intention it is done with! It is about why not sit? why stand? Did the nabi (saw) recommend us to sit? We might say did he recommend us to do many other things prevelant today (but thats not the descussion at the moment)

I strongly say, DO not go and talk with the imam, he wont listen to you as he will only try and make you believe that what they doing is right.

My advise is that you yourself do your own personal research into their aqeeda and judge for yourself.

Unto each his own!!!!

[love4all]

salams all

Brother Minsid, perhaps what you should have done in the first place is stand. Then the problem would not have arisen at all. Ignorant people are ignorant people - period. It's not a Barelwi or Deobandi thing. Just as some believe it is obligatory to stand for salams, others believe it is forbidden. Both will kick up a fuss if you act contrary to their beliefs.

The article on mawlid.net can be supplemented merely by saying that Allah has told us to make dhikr 'standing, sitting and lying on our sides.' He has also said that, 'whoever remembers Rasulullah (saw) is remembering me.' In short, there is nothing wrong with the act of standing and reciting salawat. What is wrong is that some people might believe it to be obligatory. But the wrong is what is occuring within their hearts, not their actions.

What is the difference between a person who believes that standing for salawat is haram, and one who believes that it is obligatory? One has added a wajiba to the deen, the other has taken away a mubaha...

Why not just stand up as well - especially if everyone else is doing it? It is even recommended that if a person is fasting, and is with people who are not, that he break his (nafl) fast so as to not hurt their feelings. ie: one can leave that which is good (fasting) for that which is permissible (eating) if it leads to that which is better (reconciliation between hearts). If that is the case for eating, why not for standing to recite salawat?

Leave it to the scholars to teach people the fine details of sunna vs bidah. There are many wrong things that happen in my masjid as well, but I don't tell every old man that, for example, it is not necessary to pray 2 nafl rakats sitting down after zuhr, or scold them for standing right at the back of the hall and praying - so blocking everyone else's passage. Why? Because, as Ibn Abbas said, 'when the young begin teaching the old, then all goodness has left.'

I hope I have not offended you or any other brothers. I have often found that the fruit of knowledge is tolerance.

Love 4 All!!

[mospike]

I hate to start this debate, but if they believe that they are standing out of respect of the Prophet (saw) being present in their myths then this is a totall incorrect Belief.
Below i will attach a fatwa from teh Jamiatul Ulama in Kwazulu Natal South Africa.
Any further queries may be posted to them, not me!!!

[I]Asalamualykum

If a Muslim believes that the Prophet (saw) is Haathir Naathir (present everywhere) is his Imaan deficient? or does he become a Kaafir?


Answere

Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakatuhu

One who believes that (may Allah Ta'ala protect us all), Allah Ta'ala has any partner in His being or any attribute in the complete sense of the word is not a believer. Certain people use these words for Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) not understanding what the exact meaning is. If they refer to Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) being present at the Raudah Mubaarak and he is able to see with divine permission then this does not amount to Shirk or disbelief. However if they believe that Rasoolullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) becomes present at different places at one time then this is a fabricated belief which is not supported by the Quraan and Hadith. We will definitely regard this as a serious wrong and compel him to correct his beliefs. However we still do not regard such a person a Kaafir until or unless he beleives that any person completely and totally shares/partners Allah Ta'ala in any of Allah Ta'ala's exclusive qualities.

And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best.

Was Salaam

Mufti E Salejee Ml MD Mangera
Fatwa Dept. Fatwa Dept.
___________________________________________
Jamiatul Ulama (KZN)
Council of Muslim Theologians
Tel : +27 (0) 31 3067786 - Fax : +27(0) 31 3064786
Email : info@jamiat.org.za - Website : www.jamiat.org.za

[ahsanirfan]

Sidi, standing for the Prophet s.a.s. is already a matter of difference. And most notably, the people who like to differ are the Deobandis, while all others, including people from other Madhahib, have allowed this. Do not turn this into a war, because it is already a matter of difference. If someone thinks it is fard to do so, then he is mistaken, but otherwise, there is no reproach on anyone who does it.

[nauk]

As some have said it's matter of difference, and a small one at that. It's not worth kicking a fuss up over.

[ibn_abdullah]

As salaamu alaykum

Thought i'd throw my opinion into the mix. I think something that needs to be recognized is that if someone is acting on an opinion of whatever status it needs to be respected. If there is some level of validity in it then one should just walk away. However, what also must be understood is that these actions (I dont know if standing in this manner would be classified as Sunnah per say) should not be forced onto people. To elevate an act which is a good deed to the level of Sunnah and then force it onto people makes the act in itself wrong (correct me if i'm wrong). I think that a person should simply take the higher ground and walk away and maybe explain to the imam that this is not an obligatory act that one will be punished for if not performed and to just ease up a little. If he or the congregation dont listen then one should just walk away as to avoid argumentation. Also, any sort of advice or explanation should be done with an increased level of wisdom. Openly condemning an act, either way, is not going to be productive and will not lead to understanding.

Just a thought...please correct me if i'm wrong.

Was salaam

Faraz

[GenN]

Sidi, standing for the Prophet s.a.s. is already a matter of difference. And most notably, the people who like to differ are the Deobandis, while all others, including people from other Madhahib, have allowed this. Do not turn this into a war, because it is already a matter of difference. If someone thinks it is fard to do so, then he is mistaken, but otherwise, there is no reproach on anyone who does it.

Assalmu alaykum,

The only reason the deobandis differ at times is becasue they are usually dealing with people from the indian sub continent (and people from there but at the moment living in other countries). the indian sub continent has many issues with people following hindu customs and belifs. So the deobandis sometimes need to forbid something which is permissbale to stop further harm in action and beliefs arising. (I'm sure you are aware that rulings can change depending on the place and time of the situation). The other madhabs are not found much in subcontient so you can't compare.

[clip -- best left out. The above suggestions/posts should suffice for the brother - thread closed.]

was salaam.

[maymunah]

mmm my brothers were called wahhabi for the same reason, merely coz they're affiliated with a masjid that doesn't get involved in milad celebrations. Since there is no authentic proof for milad, why can't these muslim accept there are those who don't take part in it. That doesn't mean they're disbelievers or should be stigmatised.

Like the brother said above it's best just to walk away from such discussions. Its futile to argue with these ppl they just take it to the next level call you a kaffir and all sorts.