'Khatams' (praying over food)

[Zahra]

:salam: brothers and sisters,
Inshallah you are all well. I'm fine alhamdullilah. However, Mother and I are having issues about certain traditions etc. Khair, today it is Thursday and every Thursday we read a 'khatam'. I was not sure about the validity of such traditions so I looked it up in Bahishti Zewar and found that khatams are in fact a bad innovation, i.e. they are bidah. But I do not know how to explain this to my Mother, need some help please! :jazak:

[GenN]

Assalmu alykum,

i recommend you take it easy, let them do it over the food for now. Start off by informing them the true purpose of khatams is to do dua and seek blessings for the khatam (completion) of the quran or for isle sawaab. Let them do it over food for now if they are being stubborn.

Inshallah Once they understand the true purpose of khatam, they will relaise that having food there is not at all imporatnt and will stop doing it over the coming weeks inshAllah automatically. If you just tell em its bidah they prolly wont wannt listen, but in this way i said, you dont even need mention bidah.

hope that gives you some ideas.

was slaam.

[muslim786]

There is nothing wrong with doing Khatams and is full allowed within Sharia. See the fatwa below:

Gathering to Complete the Qur'an for the Blessings and Reward

Answered by Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam, Darul Iftaa (Leicester, UK)


Can we celebrate the moving into a new house with a khatam ( a meeting of people who finish the quran) in order to receive blessings?? It is common practice in people from the Indian subcontinent. Are we allowed to have food at this gathering??





بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

والصلاة والسلام على سيدنا محمد و على آله و صحبه أجمعين



In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

The recitation of the Qur’an is surely full of blessings and a great act of reward. It can be recited for whatever reason one desires, such as seeking blessings, attaining Baraka, and obtaining success in some matter. Qur’an is a source of guidance for the bewildered, remedy for the ailing, healing for the spiritually diseased and a code of life for whole of humanity.

Allah Most High says:

“We send down in the Qur’an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe. To the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss”. (al-Isra, 82).

And:

“O mankind! There has come to you a direction from your lord (Qur’an) and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts, and for those who believe, a guidance and a mercy”. (Surah Yunus, 57).

And:

“Say: It (Qur’an) is a guide and a healing to those who believe”. (Surah Fussilat, 44).

Thus, there is no reason why one should not recite the book of Allah, partly or completely (khatam) in order to receive the assistance and blessings of Allah Almighty. This should also be coupled with respect and acting upon the injunctions of the Qur’an.

This recitation can be carried out individually and also collectively with maintaining the proper Adab and respect for the book of Allah. However, in the case of collective recitation, it is preferable to recite silently.

It is stated in the famous Hanafi reference book, al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya quoting from al-Qunya:

“It is disliked (makruh) for a group of people to recite the Qur’an loudly, for it entails discarding the command of listening to the recitation with attentiveness and remaining silent (due to the fact that all the reciters will be reciting simultaneously, m)”. (al-Fatwa al-Hindiyya, 317).

However, Imam al-Halabi states in his Sharh al-Munya al-Kabir:

It is said that there is nothing wrong in reading loudly and collectively, for listening to the recitation is Fard Kifaya, thus this can be achieved by some or one member of the group remaining silent”. (See: Imdad al-Muftiyyin, 1/ 284).

It is also stated in al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya:

“There is nothing wrong in gathering and reciting Surah al-Ikhlas at the time of completing the Qur’an (Khatam). However, if one member of the congregation recites and the rest listen attentively, then this is better (awla)”. (ibid).

Therefore, it is permissible to gather and recite the Qur’an at home or in a Masjid. It is preferable that the recitation is carried out silently. However, to recite loudly is also permissible, and the command of listening to the recitation will be fulfilled by one member of the group remaining silent.

As for the eating of food after the recitation is concerned, there is nothing principally wrong in that. However, care should be taken that the objective of the gathering is not lost, and the intention of attending the gathering is not one of eating food.

Finally, it should be remembered that the recitation should be solely for the pleasure of Allah and gaining reward. It should not be for any worldly motive or for showing off. Many times, such gatherings are no more than a custom where people gather for the sake of it, and more time is spent in other things than actually reciting the Qur’an. If this is avoided, then surely it will be a blessed event.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK
www.daruliftaa.co.uk

[muslim786]

As you can see they are doing nothing wrong as long as they don't just do it for the food, which I greatly doubt no sane person would just do it for the food. Caution should be taken when reading the book Beshti Zehar, it classifies things as Bida when they are not, although the reason the Imam has done so is because some people have actually Fardised things, for example it isn't Fard to do Khatams and if someone did think so then it would become bida.

[muslim786]

I would also advise you to read this following article:

http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/QA00000478.aspx

[UmmIbrahimIsa]

assalamu alaikum wr wb

jazakuAllahkhairun.

think about what would be better, is it better to have a gathering where you talk about useless things, things that wont benefit you except just pass time, or is it better to have a gathering where you recite quran together, make dhikr and dua'ah?

a lot of people will find nothing wrong with a gathering of where one wastes time like watching movies together or talking sports, yet they'll find it wrong to make dhikr together as they say this is not apart of islam...

Allahu Alim

[Abu Usama]

Salam,

in regards to the pakistani custom of Khatams, there are definately some issues which need to be dealt with amongst the commonfolk, like the belief that if you don't have food there it is not proper, or you are "wahhabi". But aws for the actual khatams in themselves, there is nothing wrong with them.

Sister Zahra, the best thing would be to a) read behesthi zewar with a commentary to it, and b) explain to your family in a good manner that the khatm would be just as beneficial to the deceased if there was no food there.

Wasalam

[anfaas]

Dear Sister Zahra ! ( Subhanalllah what a wonderful name to have- reminds one of the Beloved daughter of the Beloved Habib of Allah -alaihi afDalus salatu was salaam )

Three things you can take home

1) Everyone agrees that Khatam in itself is permissable
2) Food is also permissable if not deemed as the absloute maqsad/purpose of the gathering
3) Their is Khar in feeding the poor or the relatives

If your parents are not following point 2 and do it for the sake of food alone then gently advise them. Else enjoy the blessings.
Wassalam

--anfaas

[muslim786]

Dear Sister Zahra ! ( Subhanalllah what a wonderful name to have- reminds one of the Beloved daughter of the Beloved Habib of Allah -alaihi afDalus salatu was salaam )

Three things you can take home

1) Everyone agrees that Khatam in itself is permissable
2) Food is also permissable if not deemed as the absloute maqsad/purpose of the gathering
3) Their is Khar in feeding the poor or the relatives

If your parents are not following point 2 and do it for the sake of food alone then gently advise them. Else enjoy the blessings.
Wassalam

--anfaas
Brother Anfaas' comments are very sound on this matter and the above is what I have also been taught but I would like to add that I seriously doubt they(your parents) are doing this for the food alone, please have respect for the elders. Its better to have a gathering like this in my opinion even if people wanna have food than other useless gatherings. However it should be noted that food is not an absolute must.

[Zahra]

:jazak: for the advice. The thing is in my own house..when we have a khatam the food is an important thing and also only one person actually reads the khatam as such, the others listen :confused:

[Zahra]

Also the person who reads the khatam makes dua and reads surahs that they know by memory, such as surah al fatiha, ayat-al-kursi, and at the end the person reading the khatam says words to the effect: O Allah accept my dua, accept the food (milk and water too :confused: ), and I make dua that the blessings of this khatam reach such and such a person, and also the 124,000 prophets, and any muslim who has died.
I did try talking to my Mother about the insignificance of the food but she doesn't understand and I don't want to offend her because she already thinks I'm becoming influenced by wahabis when I'm not!

[Abu Usama]

Salam,

i asked a similar question to a berelvi friend of mine on another forum, and the following was his reply:

--------------------------

The du'a and recitation does not HAVE to be over food. The same reward and effect is achieved even if NO food is present. The food is there to signify that along with our normal ibadah reward (the recitation), our monetary ibadah reward (the food) is also being sent to the deceased. He who regards food a necessary part is ignorant.

If you read the Kitab-ul-Adhkar of the great Imam Abu Zakariya Nawawi, the Mujaddid, you shall see how even the sahaba used to prepare food and perform khatam after the recital of the Qur'an was finished. So, no, it's not only Pakistan/India, it's arabs too.

Imam Nawawi was a 7th century Mujaddid (reviver), so, please, no accusations of "Barelwi" khatams.

[muslim786]

Also the person who reads the khatam makes dua and reads surahs that they know by memory, such as surah al fatiha, ayat-al-kursi, and at the end the person reading the khatam says words to the effect: O Allah accept my dua, accept the food (milk and water too :confused: ), and I make dua that the blessings of this khatam reach such and such a person, and also the 124,000 prophets, and any muslim who has died.
I did try talking to my Mother about the insignificance of the food but she doesn't understand and I don't want to offend her because she already thinks I'm becoming influenced by wahabis when I'm not!

There is nothing wrong with what is being done the food CAN stay. Read brother Abu Usama's response he got from another brother.

[muslim786]

:jazak: for the advice. The thing is in my own house..when we have a khatam the food is an important thing and also only one person actually reads the khatam as such, the others listen :confused:

There is nothing wrong with this either however of course it is better for everyone to participate. Why not volunteer to have a go or encourage others.

[GenN]

There is nothing wrong with what is being done the food CAN stay. Read brother Abu Usama's response he got from another brother.


No brother the food can NOT stay. read what the sister is saying before you say food can stay. she is saying her mother thinks the food is a MUST for the khatam. the food is merely PERMISSABLE. If her mother thinks the food is a MUST then that is a BIDAH and hence all efforts and wisdom must be applied to get her mother to relaise that the food is not a MUST, and khatams can be done without the food.

sister zahara, please take my intial advice and gradually try to advise your mother that the food is not a must, but only permissbale.

[Zahra]

I personally do not understand the importance of the food, my Mother said that the blessings of the food reach the deceased and that the souls of the deceased visit their loved ones houses every Thursday :confused: Btw I usually read the khatam at my house but the thing is at the moment my intentions of reading the khatam are somewhat contradictory and I am only reading the khatam because I'm listening to my Mother. Also the whole barsi thing, reading khatam on the anniversary of a close one's death, I don't know why pakistani muslims in general do so, we should pray for the deceased in our 5 daily prayers every day and instead of fardising khatams, we should ensure we are praying 5 times a day instead of becoming too involved in customs such as khatams :)

[Strive4Allah]

Sis I think you should turn to a mufti..All that soul visiting house thing is not true..I would have said something but.........
There are all sorts of different people here...Best thing is turn to a mufti...Mufti taqi...mufti ibh....mufti Yusuf...Mufti bury...or anyother hanafi mufti...
Or the best and easiest thig is: Look it up in jewels of paradise.

[muslim786]

Sis I think you should turn to a mufti..All that soul visiting house thing is not true..I would have said something but.........
There are all sorts of different people here...Best thing is turn to a mufti...Mufti taqi...mufti ibh....mufti Yusuf...Mufti bury...or anyother hanafi mufti...
Or the best and easiest thig is: Look it up in jewels of paradise.
And what do you mean there are all sorts of people here, are you implying some of these people aren't muslim?

[muslim786]

No brother the food can NOT stay. read what the sister is saying before you say food can stay. she is saying her mother thinks the food is a MUST for the khatam. the food is merely PERMISSABLE. If her mother thinks the food is a MUST then that is a BIDAH and hence all efforts and wisdom must be applied to get her mother to relaise that the food is not a MUST, and khatams can be done without the food.

sister zahara, please take my intial advice and gradually try to advise your mother that the food is not a must, but only permissbale.
Agreed but the food can still stay.

[Zahra]

Brother no one implied that there are people who are not muslims on this forum. I think we should all think about what we say on this site, as not to offend anyone inshallah.

[muslim786]

Brother no one implied that there are people who are not muslims on this forum. I think we should all think about what we say on this site, as not to offend anyone inshallah.

Thanks sister but by reading the other post it did seem derogatory to some people. This khatm issue is only gonna be solved if your mother gets to listen to an answer from a person she would like. So I suggest you get your father or brother or some close family male that your mother trusts and if your in London go to see either Mufti Yazdani (Brent Mosque) or Mufti Barkatullah (i think he is still at Finchley) your mum will have no qualms with these two people, I am sure but she might have with the Muftis from Bury. If you are in Manchester you can speak to Allama Misbahi, or else just try sunnipath, Faraz Rabanni will be able to give you a nice honest answer.
For now tell your mother that the Food is ok, and in fact good if fed to poor etc thats how the barakah helps your family and lost ones, but tell her that it isn't needed the food I mean, and not to think it as needed then it does become Bida, small thing but thats the truth.

May Allah help you and your family.

[Abu Usama]

Salam,

it is an incorrect belief that the souls of the deceased come to our houses during khatms. What the belief should be is that we send blessings upon them through dua to Allah swt, saying "Oh Allah, send so much qur'an, and so much of this and that on this deceased person". And that it is upto Allah (swt) whether or not these blessings benefit the deceased or not.

and there's nothing wrong with doing it every year, as long as one does not believe that it is necessary to do that. And in terms of the food, well even the blessings of food can be sent upon the deceased (which i recall reading from Behesthi zewar) but thats not to say that the smell of the food will reach the deceased (as some people will make sweet rice, belieivng the sweet smell will reach the deceased.)

[Zahra]

Sabr and shukr :D will inshallah help all of us.

[muslim786]

Salam,

it is an incorrect belief that the souls of the deceased come to our houses during khatms. What the belief should be is that we send blessings upon them through dua to Allah swt, saying "Oh Allah, send so much qur'an, and so much of this and that on this deceased person". And that it is upto Allah (swt) whether or not these blessings benefit the deceased or not.

and there's nothing wrong with doing it every year, as long as one does not believe that it is necessary to do that. And in terms of the food, well even the blessings of food can be sent upon the deceased (which i recall reading from Behesthi zewar) but thats not to say that the smell of the food will reach the deceased (as some people will make sweet rice, belieivng the sweet smell will reach the deceased.)

Yep this is fully correct from what I have been told by the Muftis, but sister I still think your mother would believe it more coming from the Aalims she considers to be ok.

[Zahra]

The thing is my family do not know of any Aalims as such. Btw I live in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire...its 20mins from Slough and an hour from London, does anyone know of any womens circles going on in my area or any events taking place in the next few weeks? Let me know, JKK.

[muslim786]

Assalamulikum WR WB,

Its a shame your parents are not in contact with Alims. This is the major reason for errors to creep in.
Sister join this yahoo group, I think their main HQ is based in slough they maybe able to tell you if something is being organised that may interest you:

link removed

[muslim786]

Here is an example of an event organised in that area, im not sure if women are allowed but here are the details:
link removed

[Saleel]

:salam:

muslim786, after receiving many complaints about that site, we've decided to ban advocating it here, hence the link has been removed.

:jazak:

:salam:

[muslim786]

Can you please tell me in private what those complaints were.

[Saleel]

Can you please tell me in private what those complaints were.
Sure. I've added you on MSN.

:salam:

[muslim786]

Assalamulikum,

Please can someone tell me what the problem is with thatl site? If there is something sincerely wrong with then all should be informed as to what the problem is, it doesn't appear to insult anyone or have I missed a page.

[Saleel]

Assalamulikum,

Please can someone tell me what the problem is with thatl site? If there is something sincerely wrong with then all should be informed as to what the problem is, it doesn't appear to insult anyone or have I missed a page.
Erm, please calm down. As I said, you've been added on MSN. I can discuss it with you there :insh:.

:salam:

[muslim786]

JazakAllah.

[islamonline]

This is very common amongst those from the Indo/Pak Region;
From what ive heard it originates from the Barelwi's (No offence to my Barelwi Brothers) :cheesygri

Be sure to Correct me if im wrong;

[farooki]

Assalaam alykum,

Yes its common in indo-pak. In our house they were practising bidah (i.e. Koondeh). One day i got rid all of that stuff by throwing it outside my house. Since then Alhamdulillah everything is fine. One with stong emaan and dua's can get rid of bidah.


jazakallah

[loveProphet]

Assalaam alykum,

Yes its common in indo-pak. In our house they were practising bidah (i.e. Koondeh). One day i got rid all of that stuff by throwing it outside my house. Since then Alhamdulillah everything is fine. One with stong emaan and dua's can get rid of bidah.


jazakallah
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Well, a Berelvi scholar(such as Imam Ahmed Rida Khan(RA)) said this:

The explanation as provided by the Ulema-e-Haqq and by the Fuqaha specifically regarding the food that is prepared at the funeral place is of different categories or types. Some categories of the food that is prepared at funerals are regarded as Hassan, some as Makrooh, some as Ja'iz and some as Haraam.
Ja'iz (permissable): If the food has been prepared by the neighbours or relatives (from their side) with all expenses incurred by them, and there is no special invitation, then that food is considered as ja'iz to eat.

Makrooh (disliked): If the food has been prepared for the Esaale Sawaab of the deceased by the relatives who are not classed as inheritors, then that food should be fed to the needy and to the poor. It will be Makrooh for the wealthy to eat this food.

Hassan (good): If the food that is prepared is distributed amongst the poor, needy and orphan's, then there is great reward (Sawaab) in this and cooking, feeding and partaking in all this is regarded as a good practice.

Haraam (unlawful): If the food was prepared from the deceased's wealth, and some of the inheritors had not been present or some of the inheritors had not reached the age of maturity that would have made them legal inheritors, then the food becomes Haraam to eat. This is because the wealth that is used to prepare the food actually belongs to all the inheritors and use that wealth without their permission is eating the wealth of the orphan's which is Haraam. Therefore, the food is regarded as Haraam to consume. If the food was prepared through by the pressure of the society or community fearing that people will laugh or consider the family to be very low, and if it was prepared by borrowing money when there was not enough money available, the food is also considered Makruh to consume.

In our community, the general custom that is followed in preparing the food at a funeral residence is usually carried out by the relatives of the deceased, who utilise their own wealth, and not by utilising the wealth of the deceased. If this is done without much extravagance and without an atmosphere of celebration that involves unnecessary side expenses, for example, hiring of special chairs, lights and cutlery, and purely with the intention of feeding the visitors who might have travelled from afar and who are hungry due to lack of food that might be easily available, then, in this situation, the food is considered as mubah (allowed).

The wisdom of the Shariah is that the funeral place should be a place of the remembrance of Almighty Allah and to create a Fear of Almighty Allah. The environment should create an atmosphere of the remembrance of death and the Aakirah, to show sympathy towards the deceased's family, to assist them, to comfort them and offer condolences at their personal loss. The Shariah does not put unnecessary burden on them by making it necessary for them to prepare food and entertain visitors and mourners. The visitors should rather encourage the next of kin to the deceased to eat and drink and not neglect their bodies and health.

It should always be remembered that the residence of the deceased or funeral place should not look like a place of celebration and merriment with visitors and mourners eating, drinking, smoking, laughing and talking unnecessarily as these acts are not befitting for the ocassion and strongly disliked by the Shariah.

It was the custom in the early ages that some special group of mourners (Nawhagar) used to visit the residence to the deceased on the day of the funeral, sit and cry and make others cry, and recite poetry in praise of the deceased. All these actions are totally prohibited and to invite such people and offer them food is Haraam.

The Islamic Shariah allows Ziafat (feast upon invitation) for specific ocassions such as weddings, but not for funerals. It is a Bidah (innovation) to have a feast on an ocassion of sadness.

Muslims should avoid unnecessary and unhealthy customs or practices that become points of criticism for them, but should rather try to strive towards those actions which the Shariah enjoins and approves of. It is advised by the Shariah that one should have the intention of Esaale Sawaab when preparing the food that is to be consumed at the residence of the deceased and should feed the poor and the needy with this intention. The feeding should not be motivated by reasons of pressure from the society and community and for reasons of feeling compelled and regarding it as an absolute necessity to feed the visitors and mourners. (References: Fatawa Razviyah, Miraatul Manajeh, Jal-yus-Saut Linah-yid Da'wati Amamal Maut)

May Almighty Allah imbibe in us the Taufeeq and Hidayah to follow the Deen of Islam. Ameen.


I hope that clarifies the berelvi stance.

Wa Salaam

[GenN]

Assalam-o-Alaikum,



I hope that clarifies the berelvi stance.

Wa Salaam

Assaalmu alaykum,

Yes it clarifies the brelvi stance. Pity the brelvis and some of thier molvis don't follow their leading scholars. Most of the ignorance shown by the brelvis has nothing to do with their leading scholars.

And by the way:

Hadrat Allama Mufti Pir Sayyad Shah Muhammad Madani Miya
Ashrafi al-Jilani Khiccochawee Damat Barkatuhum Quddsia


Thats one heck of a name.

[loveProphet]

Assaalmu alaykum,

Yes it clarifies the brelvi stance. Pity the brelvis and some of thier molvis don't follow their leading scholars. Most of the ignorance shown by the brelvis has nothing to do with their leading scholars.

And by the way:

Hadrat Allama Mufti Pir Sayyad Shah Muhammad Madani Miya
Ashrafi al-Jilani Khiccochawee Damat Barkatuhum Quddsia


Thats one heck of a name.

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Actually, ALL berelvi scholars agree with the post i posted, its like their only view lol.

As for the name, i have NO IDEA who he is, i don't really know any berelvi scholars although i've heard theres some good ones.

Btw, anyone heard of Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri?? MashAllah he's a very good scholar(not berelvi though lol). You can read about him at:

http://www.tahir-ul-qadri.com/

And
www.Minhaj.net
Wa Salaam

[leo28]

This is very common amongst those from the Indo/Pak Region;
From what ive heard it originates from the Barelwi's (No offence to my Barelwi Brothers) :cheesygri

Be sure to Correct me if im wrong;

U r 100% correct brother, such acts have almost become social traditions in indo-pak, where u hv to host such ceremonies frequently esp at the occasion of death of some near ones, where prov of food is considered the essential part of such gatherings, not realizing the financial impacts of such evils on poor n needy class of the society. We will make lives of poor more miserable by encouraging such acts. Needs 2 b examined by well read scholars 4 issuance of some joint fatwa 4 elimination of such traditions, which r in direct conflict with the teachings of islam.

[GenN]

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Actually, ALL berelvi scholars agree with the post i posted, its like their only view lol.

As for the name, i have NO IDEA who he is, i don't really know any berelvi scholars although i've heard theres some good ones.

Btw, anyone heard of Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri?? MashAllah he's a very good scholar(not berelvi though lol). You can read about him at:

http://www.tahir-ul-qadri.com/

And
www.Minhaj.net
Wa Salaam


Sorry. I did not make myself clear. Obviously all brelvi scholars would agree with opinon as it is from imam ahmed rada khan. But what I meant to say was that it's a pity they do not LIVe according to it. Their funereal foods have turned into feasts etc. You know what I mean. They do not live practically speaking according to the above view.

As for the name, then that is the sheikh in your sig akhi, how can you not know?

[YoungBrother]

Sorry. I did not make myself clear. Obviously all brelvi scholars would agree with opinon as it is from imam ahmed rada khan. But what I meant to say was that it's a pity they do not LIVe according to it. Their funereal foods have turned into feasts etc. You know what I mean. They do not live practically speaking according to the above view.

As for the name, then that is the sheikh in your sig akhi, how can you not know?

hahaha! yes very 'lol'in funny. . . well your very wrong, Shaykh ul Islam Dr. Tahir ul Qadri is Brelvi. Why do you have to insult the Brelvi people so much, just because this forum is runned by the deo's doesn't mean its okay to abuse the Brelvi's.

[streetwalker]

. . well your very wrong, Shaykh ul Islam Dr. Tahir ul Qadri is Brelvi. .




Btw, anyone heard of Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri?? MashAllah he's a very good scholar(not berelvi though lol). You can read about him at:



yeah sheikh of islam cutting cakes the birthday of isa(aw)!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGtwUSL2X6s

and seems like some punjabi dance

http://youtube.com/watch?v=paeqa2nMdaA

[Ibn Ali Asghar]

This khatam business seems very dodgy man.. it has alot of deviant ideas behind it (dead souls coming to see the food).. was it practised by the salaf??