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LovinMyDeen
29-09-2005, 07:05 AM
Asalamu alaikum bro/sis i found this on another forum, people discussing about sufis is this true?



Question :

What is the place of sufism in Islam? What truth is there in 'religious experiences', contacts with the Divine, etc.? Some people hold such phenomena in high regard, claiming the similarities between experiences of people from different religions and from opposite corners of the globe, to be proof. How should people who claim to be sufis or believers/followers of sufism be seen? Isn't prayer and remembrance also a form of contact with the Almighty, SWT?

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The word “Sufism” was not known at the time of the Messenger or the Sahaabah or the Taabi’een. It arose at the time when a group of ascetics who wore wool (“soof”) emerged, and this name was given to them. It was also said that the name was taken from the word “soofiya” (“sophia”) which means “wisdom” in Greek. The word is not derived from al-safa’ (“purity”) as some of them claim, because the adjective derived from safa’ is safaa’i, not soofi (sufi). The emergence of this new name and the group to whom it is applied exacerbated the divisions among Muslims. The early Sufis differed from the later Sufis who spread bid’ah (innovation) to a greater extent and made shirk in both minor and major forms commonplace among the people, as well as the innovations against which the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned us when he said, “Beware of newly-invented things, for every newly-invented thing is an innovation and every innovation is a going-astray.” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who said it is saheeh hasan).

The following is a comparison between the beliefs and rituals of Sufism and Islam which is based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

Sufism has numerous branches or tareeqahs, such as the Teejaniyyah, Qaadiriyyah, Naqshbandiyyah, Shaadhiliyyah, Rifaa’iyyah, etc., the followers of which all claim that their particular tareeqah is on the path of truth whilst the others are following falsehood. Islam forbids such sectarianism. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… and be not of al-mushrikoon (the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, idolaters, etc),

Of those who split up their religion (i.e., who left the true Islamic monotheism), and became sects, [i.e., they invented new things in the religion (bid’ah) and followed their vain desires], each sect rejoicing in that which is with it.” [al-Room 30:31-32]

The Sufis worship others than Allaah, such as Prophets and “awliya’” [“saints”], living or dead. They say, “Yaa Jeelaani”, “Yaa Rifaa’i” [calling on their awliya’], or “O Messenger of Allaah, help and save” or “O Messenger of Allaah, our dependence is on you”, etc.

But Allaah forbids us to call on anyone except Him in matters that are beyond the person's capabilities. If a person does this, Allaah will count him as a mushrik, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And invoke not, besides Allaah, any that will neither profit you, nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).” [Yoonus 10:106]

The Sufis believe that there are abdaal, aqtaab and awliya’ (kinds of “saints”) to whom Allaah has given the power to run the affairs of the universe. Allaah tells us about the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘…And who disposes the affairs?’ They will say. ‘Allaah.’…” [Yoonus 10:31]

The mushrik Arabs knew more about Allaah than these Sufis!

The Sufis turn to other than Allaah when calamity strikes, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And if Allaah touches you with harm, none can remove it but He, and if He touches you with good, then He is Able to do all things.” [al-An’aam 6:17]

Some Sufis believe in wahdat al-wujood (unity of existence). They do not have the idea of a Creator and His creation, instead they say that everything is creation and everything is god.

The Sufis advocate extreme asceticism in this life and do not believe in taking the necessary means or in jihaad, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But seek with that (wealth) which Allaah has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, and forget not your portion of legal enjoyment in this world…” [al-Qasas 28:77]

“And make ready against them all that you can of power…” [al-Anfaal 8:60]

The Sufis refer the idea of ihsaan to their shaykhs and tell their followers to have a picture of their shaykh in mind when they remember Allaah and even when they are praying. Some of them even put a picture of their shaykh in front of them when they are praying. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Ihsaan is when you worship Allaah as if you can see Him, and although you cannot see Him, He can see you.” (Reported by Muslim).

The Sufis allow dancing, drums and musical instruments, and raising the voice when making dhikr, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The believers are only those who, when Allaah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts…” [al-Anfaal 8:2]

Moreover, you see some of them making dhikr by only pronouncing the Name of Allaah, saying, “Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.” This is bid’ah and has no meaning in Islam. They even go to the extreme of saying, “Ah, ah” or “Hu, Hu.” The Sunnah is for the Muslim to remember his Lord in words that have a true meaning for which he will be rewarded, such as saying Subhaan Allaah wa wa Laa ilaaha illa Allaah wa Allaahu akbar, and so on.

The Sufis recite love poems mentioning the names of women and boys in their dhikr gatherings, and they repeat words such as “love”, “passion”, “desire” and so on, as if they are in a gathering where people dance and drink wine and clap and shout. All of this has to do with the customs and acts of worship of the mushrikeen. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Their salaah (prayer) at the House (of Allaah, i.e., the Ka’bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands…”

[al-Anfaal 8:35]

Some Sufis pierce themselves with rods of iron, saying, “O my grandfather!” So the shayaateen come to them and help them, because they are seeking the help of someone other than Allaah . Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whosoever turns away (blinds himself) from the remembrance of the Most Beneficent (Allaah), We appoint for him a shaytaan (devil) to be a qareen (intimate companion) for him.”

[al-Zukhruf 43:36]

The Sufis claim to have gnosis and knowledge of the unseen, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say: ‘None in the heavens and the earth knows the ghayb (unseen) except Allaah…’” [al-Naml 27:65]

The Sufis claim that Allaah created the world for the sake of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).” [al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, addressed His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the words (interpretation of the meaning):

“And worship your Lord until there comes unto the certainty (i.e., death).” [al-Hijr 15:99]

The Sufis claim that they can see Allaah in this life, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“[Moosa said:] ‘O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You.’ Allaah said, ‘You cannot see Me…’” [al-A’raaf 7:143]

The Sufis claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and in a conscious state (as opposed to dreams). So are they better than the Sahaabah??

The Sufis claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They say, “Haddathani qalbi ‘an Rabbi (My heart told me from my Lord).”

The Sufis celebrate Mawlid and hold gatherings for sending blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but they go against his teachings by raising their voices in dhikr and anaasheed (religious songs) and qaseedahs (poems) that contain blatant shirk. Did the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) celebrate his birthday? Did Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Uthman, ‘Ali, the four imaams or anyone else celebrate his birthday? Who knows more and is more correct in worship, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Salaf, or the Sufis?

The Sufis travel to visit graves and seek blessings from their occupants or to make tawaaf (ritual circumambulation) around them or to make sacrifices at these sites, all of which goes against the teachings of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Do not travel to visit any place but three mosques: al-Masjid al-Haraam [in Makkah], this mosque of mine [in Madeenah] and al-Masjid al-Aqsa [in Jerusalem].” (Agreed upon).

The Sufis are blindly loyal to their shaykhs, even when what they go against the words of Allaah and His Messenger. But Allaah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allaah and His Messenger…” [al-Hujuraat 49:1]

The Sufis use talismans, letters and numbers for making decisions and for making amulets and charms and so on.

The Sufis do not restrict themselves to the specific blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that were narrated from him. They invented new formulas that involve seeking his blessings and other kinds of blatant shirk which are unacceptable to the one on whom they are sending blessings.

With regard to the question of the whether the Sufi shaykhs have some kind of contact, this is true, but their contact is with the shayaateen, not with Allaah, so they inspire one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies – shayaateen (devils) among mankind and jinns, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it…” [al-An’aam 6:112]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… And, certainly, the shayaateen (devils) do inspire their friends (from mankind)…” [al-An’aam 6:121]

“Shall I inform you (O people!) upon whom the shayaateen (devils) descend?

They descend on every lying, sinful person.” [al-Shu’ara 221-222]

This is the contact that is real, not the contact that they falsely claim to have with Allaah. Exalted be Allaah far above that. (See Mu’jam al-Bida’, 346 –359).

When some of these Sufi shaykhs disappear suddenly from the sight of their followers, this is the result of their contact with the shayaateen, who may even carry them to a distant place and bring them back in the same day or night, to mislead their human followers.

So the important rule here is not to judge people by the extraordinary feats that they may do. We should judge them by how closely or otherwise they adhere to the Qur’aan and Sunnah. The true friends of Allaah (awliya’) are not necessarily known for performing astounding feats. On the contrary, they are the ones who worship Allaah in the manner that He has prescribed, and not by doing acts of bid’ah. The true awliya’ or friends of Allaah are those whom our Lord has described in the hadeeth qudsi narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh (5/2384) from Abu Hurayrah, who said:

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah said, ‘Whoever shows enmity towards a friend (wali) of Mine, I declare war against him. My slave does not draw close to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties that I have enjoined on him, and My slave continues to draw close to Me with supererogatory (naafil) acts, so that I will love him. When I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it.’”

And Allaah is the Source of Strength and the Guide to the Straight Path.

laughinglion
29-09-2005, 07:35 AM
:salam: Sister lyv4Islam. (Read to the end) Do you really want somebody to read through all this and answer all them disgusting allegations which we've all heard and have been answered definitively already. Do you know how tiresome it is to have to read through this nonsense.
If you really need answers (and your not just trying to 'enlighten' us as to things you think we dont ) then maybe I or somebody else, who can bring themselves to yet again have to defend some of the best people of this ummah against ignorant deviants will reply. Or maybe somewhere on sunniforum this has all been covered already.

Sorry if I'm going on long but I was just gonna go and get some sleep when I saw this. I'm not being down on you I just wish you wouldn't cut and paste these bloomin great tirades against Sunni Muslims. Maybe in future you can take a couple of points at a time and put it in your own words.

I know you have love for Allah :taala: and His Messenger :saw: (and may allah establish you in such love(an' ya ah still eh yout')) but please try and take time in this Deen before you start singling whole groups of Muslims out for hatred and vitriol. Remember this Islam is for life and I dont think you really wanna go through life hating Muslim. So please sister for the sake of your Deen ease off of the dodgy sites. I'm not saying stay away (although it would be best if you did), just not all at once, you'll self destruct, I've been there.

Before you answer this post read the hadith at the end of your post, read it and re-read it and spend the day reflecting on what it means.

And may Allah :taala: fill your heart and all around you with light.

With Peace ;)

Shaykhs-Pir Sahib
29-09-2005, 09:12 AM
salam

the article is utter trash.

my advice would be to be severely careful whom you take your deen from. and forums are a dangerous place - unless like here, qualified ulama and their positions are quoted and discussed.

secondly, one of the commentators of a great maliki fiqh text said if someone writes something without leaving their name - avoid it.

who was the author of this article? what are his qualifications in the deen, who did he study with?

LovinMyDeen
29-09-2005, 09:39 AM
Asalamu alaikum
Sorry sorry and sorry, i didnt believe them ofcourse i just like to clear my mind before sticking to one side! i DEFINELY dont believe in the article i am just asking is this true about sufis (which i now know is not true?right?). I have no idea which sheik wrote it i just found it on this islamic forum talking about sufis, they said some good things, but some bad things about the ones who commit shirk! Besides we should all be called muslims not sufis shias ans so on................................................ .
Salams
Sister, Yasmin

laughinglion
29-09-2005, 10:01 AM
:salam: Sister, dont be shy or backdown from seeking the answers you want. Clear up the confusion in you head get everthing straight. Dont let us moody guys put you off. Tell ya what read and reflect on the hadith (oh yeah and act on it ;) ). Then get the questions that you most want answered, if you still do, one or two at a time. Because I just looked at the post you posted and I'd end up writing a book refuting that lot.

And why aint you in school ?

With Peace.

Shaykhs-Pir Sahib
29-09-2005, 11:17 AM
as salamu `alaykum

there are lots of people out there who generally have big beef with sufism and sufis. there are a number of reasons for this:

1. they fail to understand the concept of tasawwuf

2. they see some deviant sufi groups, such as the ones who try and walk with knives in their head, and those that allow free-mixing in gatherings, yet don't pray their 5 prayers etc etc

3. they have a negative image of the 'pir' from indo-pak - because the pir may make public claims which he really shouldn't make public, or the people around the pir attach too much importance to him, while the same time neglecting their own ibadat. i.e. the people don't pray, yet ask the 'pir' to somehow solve their problems.

4. the dodgy sufis in indo-pak who use drugs

5. in addition, many of these pir's claim descent from the propeht (s)... sometimes i wonder how there are so many in indo-pak - moreso than in the arab world - although technically possible, i have heard many of them just make the claim - it gets them a big house and a large following.

so, you see there are many problems. however, none of these should be associated with tasawwuf itself. no should it be confused with shari'a based tariqah.

<<Sufism has numerous branches or tareeqahs, such as the Teejaniyyah, Qaadiriyyah, Naqshbandiyyah, Shaadhiliyyah, Rifaa’iyyah, etc., the followers of which all claim that their particular tareeqah is on the path of truth whilst the others are following falsehood.>>

actually they don't believe that the others are in falsehood at all. this is a gross error. the author is misinformed to the highest degree and should make amends to this lie.

<<The Sufis worship others than Allaah, such as Prophets and “awliya’” [“saints”], living or dead. They say, “Yaa Jeelaani”, “Yaa Rifaa’i” [calling on their awliya’], or “O Messenger of Allaah, help and save” or “O Messenger of Allaah, our dependence is on you”, etc.>>

actually this is a gross misunderstanding of 'tawassul' - something you can search for in other threads in this forum.

<<The Sufis believe that there are abdaal, aqtaab and awliya’ (kinds of “saints”) to whom Allaah has given the power to run the affairs of the universe.>>

there do exist abdaal, aqtaab and awliya - but they do not run the affairs of the universe - what nonsense. rather as their descriptions state, they are pious servants of Allah, that Allah *may* grant some knowledge of the unseen. they also may be able to perform miracles/karamat - this belief being an essential point of aqida. (see tahawiyyah)

<<Some Sufis believe in wahdat al-wujood (unity of existence). They do not have the idea of a Creator and His creation, instead they say that everything is creation and everything is god.>>

no they don't. again, look up this topic in this forum.

<<The Sufis advocate extreme asceticism in this life and do not believe in taking the necessary means or in jihaad,>>

unbelievable jahl here. jihad is an essential component of the deen. the greater jihad according to ahl al-sunna is jihad al-nafs, the lesser being a military struggle. unfortunately the author has not read history, and therefore is unaware of Imam Shamil, Amir Abdal Qadir, and countless other sufi muhajideen.

as for ascetism - they advocate zuhd - anyone who condemns this is not worth engaging with.

<<The Sufis refer the idea of ihsaan to their shaykhs and tell their followers to have a picture of their shaykh in mind when they remember Allaah and even when they are praying. Some of them even put a picture of their shaykh in front of them when they are praying.>>

ihsan is exactly as the hadith states, not what the author states. there are certain tariqah's which emphasise the importance of the shaykh, the reason being the shaykh is your key to following the qur'an and sunna - so emulate him.

<<The Sufis allow dancing, drums and musical instruments, and raising the voice when making dhikr, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):>>

dancing = hadra. the prophet (s) saw a group of Ethiopans dancing IN HIS MASJID, prasing him and did he forbid it? no, in fact he let his wife watch them! (sahih hadith).

as for hadra, it is nothing like the dancing of the modern era. again, look in the forums.

as for musical instruments - there is huge ikhtilaf on this issue. the most scrupulous position is that yes, all instruments are haram, except for perhaps the drum/tambourine.

however, hujjat al-islam imam al-ghazali, a mujtahid imam, also a sufi, wrote extensively on this also. essentially he stated that any music that distracts one from the path of Allah is haram, if not, it is mubah.

<<Moreover, you see some of them making dhikr by only pronouncing the Name of Allaah, saying, “Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.” This is bid’ah and has no meaning in Islam. They even go to the extreme of saying, “Ah, ah” or “Hu, Hu.” The Sunnah is for the Muslim to remember his Lord in words that have a true meaning for which he will be rewarded, such as saying Subhaan Allaah wa wa Laa ilaaha illa Allaah wa Allaahu akbar, and so on.>>

the meaning of bid'a according to ahl al-sunna - search the forums.

(the bits i have left out are not worth discussing, because they are simply not true)

<<The Sufis claim to have gnosis and knowledge of the unseen, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars.>>

firsty, understand the term gnosis or ma'arifa. this is a massive topic.

secondly, knowledge of the unseen - i am too sure regarding this, but certain pious people are given that ability. this is true.


<<The Sufis celebrate Mawlid and hold gatherings for sending blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but they go against his teachings by raising their voices in dhikr and anaasheed (religious songs) and qaseedahs (poems) that contain blatant shirk.>>


mawlid is permissible.

as for shirk in those poems - this is rubbish and has been discussed in another thread on the burda.

<<Did the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) celebrate his birthday? Did Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Uthman, ‘Ali, the four imaams or anyone else celebrate his birthday? Who knows more and is more correct in worship, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Salaf, or the Sufis?>>

just because they didn't do it, it doesn't mean it is haram. but the prophet (s) used to fast on mondays, and he was born on Monday. there are many proofs for mawlid.

<<The Sufis travel to visit graves and seek blessings from their occupants or to make tawaaf (ritual circumambulation) around them or to make sacrifices at these sites, all of which goes against the teachings of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Do not travel to visit any place but three mosques: al-Masjid al-Haraam [in Makkah], this mosque of mine [in Madeenah] and al-Masjid al-Aqsa [in Jerusalem].” (Agreed upon).>>


tawaaf - no. sacrifice - no. as for visitation of graves this is permisssible. but people don't travel solely for this, unless it is masjid an-nabawi.


<<The Sufis do not restrict themselves to the specific blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that were narrated from him. They invented new formulas that involve seeking his blessings and other kinds of blatant shirk which are unacceptable to the one on whom they are sending blessings.>>

so all dhikrs not narrated from the prophet are unacceptable? what about those narrated from the salaf? what of those salaf who 'invented' new dhikrs?

Shaykhs-Pir Sahib
29-09-2005, 11:25 AM
by the way, i would advise you not to enter forums where such lies are being spread.

secondly, when an author lies in one statement - how can u trust the rest of his statements?

just some naseeha for you.

as for seeing Allah, read this:

http://www.livingislam.org/n/va_e.html

knowledge of the unseen:

http://www.livingislam.org/n/pku_e.html

godilali
29-09-2005, 09:15 PM
As salaamu alaikum,

To sum it up:

Tasawwuf (sufism) is basically about purifying yourself by fighting your nafs through dhikr and ibadah.

To do this, a shaykh is required who is familiar with the science of tasawwuf to recommend daily adhkar / dua for your particular needs. Kind of like a doctor prescribing medicine.
The shaykh must be someone from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamah, knowledgeable in the deen, having ijazah in his particular tariqah, and who follows the shariah, both outwardly and inwardly.

True sufis do NOT worship graves. I am not going to pretend like this does not happen, since some ignorant people do, but true sufis do not worship graves or dead people. Some do see benifit in visiting graves to obtain barakah, not to worship them.

Many of them do believe in tawassul, which means intercession with Allah through pious people. This does not mean that these pious people (Prophets as, saints , etc) have the ability to hear or help us, but rather, since they are dear to Allah, you hope to get your prayer answered by Allah for the sake of his love for them. This is clearly not shirk, because they believe that the saints or Nabis (as) are merely righteous slaves of Allah, and only Allah is capable of hearing prayers and giving. Tawassul is an issue that is often debated between ulama, but some major scholars have permitted it in some forms, such as Imam Ahmad, Qadi Shawkani, Suyuti, etc. You do not have to practice it nor condemn it.

One of the biggest lies associated with Sufis is that they believe that Allah is inside everything. This belief is pure kufr, and no Sufi believes this. Wahdatul Wujud is a state that someone experiences, not a point of aqidah. Only those who experience it can truly understand it, but for the rest of us, it is just that once a person remembers Allah swt so much, he feels as if creation is completely insignificant, and it is as if nothing exists besides Allah. As you can see, this is clerely opposed to divine indwelling, which is worse than what the Christians believe.

Lastly, Sufis do not believe in abandoning Jihad, or making haram halal, or drinking, listening to haram music, taking kuffar as murids etc etc.


So essentially, stay firm in your Tawhid, and try to act upon the Quran and Sunnah. Realize that not everything is black and white; all sufis are not mushrik or mubtadis, all salafis are not anthropomorphists, etc. etc.

a_rafee
29-09-2005, 09:20 PM
The above mentioned question & Answer is taken from Islam QA website maintained by Saudi based Salafi Scholar Shiekh Saleh Al Munajjid.

LovinMyDeen
30-09-2005, 12:20 AM
Asalamu alaikum
jzks for your replys, and its school holidays in Australia brother!

LovinMyDeen
30-09-2005, 12:23 AM
Asalamu alaikum
My question is do some sufis believe in things, that is shirk?

laughinglion
30-09-2005, 12:58 AM
Asalamu alaikum
My question is do some sufis believe in things, that is shirk?


:salam:
Like what exactly?

Also the two terms are mutually exclusive. A sufi being the one who trys to the utmost to taken on the Sunnah of Rasoola'Llahi :saw: , inwardly and outwardly, would thus never go near anything that came close to shirk.

There are though as Shaykhs-Pir pointed out deviants who may call themselves sufis.

With Peace.

LovinMyDeen
01-10-2005, 03:58 AM
Asalamu alaikum
The type of shirk i mean is, i heard that some sufis ask for the prophet Muhammad (saw) for help instead of Allah (swt)! Also they praise sheiks when they die like going to their graves and grieving!
P.S are you actually allowed to call prophet Muhammad (s) your master?
I dont think so because, we are the servants of Allah (swt) and all we have to do with the holy prophet is follow his path! true?

laughinglion
01-10-2005, 04:02 AM
Asalamu alaikum
P.S are you actually allowed to call prophet Muhammad (s) your master?
I dont think so because, we are the servants of Allah (swt) and all we have to do with the holy prophet is follow his path! true?
[QUOTE=lyv4islam]Asalamu alaikum

:salam: Sister lyv4islam.

One thing you must recognise is that words/language is used to convey meanings and them meanings change according to the circumstances of what is being refered to. Therefore you are correct to say that Allah :taala: is our Master in that He is the Master of all Creation. Bro. Salman is equally correct in that Allah :taala: sent Sayyidina Muhammad (Our Master Muhammad :saw: ) to command and be obeyed. Thus in this context he is also our master. And I believe there are ahaadith that testify to this (eg., that he :saw: is the master of those sent (the messengers (sayyidi al-mursaleen).

In the Arabic language sayyid (master) has various shades of meaning from, master through gentleman, mister, sir, lord, overlord, chief, chieftan, etc and this is all acceptable to use in regard to Allah's creation. How much more so the for The Best of Allah's Creation, Our Master Muhammad :saw: . And for the meanings of master in the English language http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=master
.

I will try and locate the hadith references for you, I'm sure you'd appreciate that.

With Peace

PS. There is another thread somewhere about how Allah's names, and which of them and in which way, can be used in language and in reference to human beings. Have a search. Or I'll locate it for you :insh: I think the title of the thread is: the names of Muhammad :saw:

LovinMyDeen
01-10-2005, 04:06 AM
Asalamu alaikum
Jzks brother for you reply!
Can you answer my question about sufis and shirk, i posted.

godilali
01-10-2005, 04:09 AM
Master (mawla or sayyidi) is not the same thing as rabb or master when discussing Allah. When we say Sayyiduna (our master), it is just a title of respect. For example, ambasadors are refered to as His Excellency, etc.

The asking for help thing depends on whether or not they believe the
Prophet alaihis salatu was salam can hear and answer their prayers, or if they are asking Allah through the status the Prophet (saw) has in the eyes of Allah. This issue is debated within the ulama.

laughinglion
01-10-2005, 04:10 AM
Asalamu alaikum
Jzks brother for you reply!
Can you answer my question about sufis and shirk, i posted.

:salam:

Not now because its fajr time here. But here is a link to a more detailed reference to the names of habib Allah :saw: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=117&CATE=24

With Peace.

LovinMyDeen
01-10-2005, 04:11 AM
Asalamu alaikum Jzks brothers for ur replys! i really appreciate the bro/sis (not sure about sisters) for taking your time to answer my question. May Allah (swt) reward you for your kindness.
Salams

laughinglion
02-10-2005, 01:40 PM
:salam:

I cant PM you so here is some reading for you to do http://www.abc.se/~m9783/

With Peace.