What day does RAMADAN start in your country!

[LovinMyDeen]

Asalamu alaikum
bro/sis i just thought of starting a thread of which day ramadan starts for different Nations. I'll start from where i live: Australia, Melbourne on wednesday 5th of October.

Salams

[Noor ul Islam]

AssalaamuAlaikum
Wednesday 5 October in Lahore, Pakistan.Wassalaam

[Aya]

Salaam aleikoum,

Here the 5th as well, The Netherlands...

[Hamza]

4th october in London... supposedly

[Mariah]

:salam:

i guess here, when your asking "starts", you mean fasting?

UK- tuesday 4th for the majority, wednesday 5th for the minority...

[nayyerjigar]

:salam:

thats strange, we here in NY should be fasting earlier than UK or Asia because according moonsighting.com western nations see the moon first.

anywayz, icna nor isna have said anything yet. :rolleyes:

[Mariah]

:salam:

thats strange, we here in NY should be fasting earlier than UK or Asia because according moonsighting.com western nations see the moon first.

anywayz, icna nor isna have said anything yet. :rolleyes:

:salam:

exactly! Austrailia who are 12 hours ahead of UK should see the moon before us and the middle eastern countries and they arent even fasting tomorrow...

[Yaseen]

:salam:

exactly! Austrailia who are 12 hours ahead of UK should see the moon before us and the middle eastern countries and they arent even fasting tomorrow...

Its' becos all those fasting on Tuesday follow Saudi, who always see the moon a day earlier than the rest of the world.

Somethings never change.

May Allah guide us all

[nayyerjigar]

but that doesnt make sense, so you are saying saudis are not looking at data on moonsighting.com which says the moon is hardly visible today anywhere.

[Yaseen]

I believe the Saudi's are wrong again.

[laughinglion]

:salam:

UK, The Gambia (West Africa) and my contacts in South Africa Wednesday or Thursady, all according to the Sunnah of moonsighting.

With Peace

PS; Maybe one of the Saudi Sufis had a kashf (an unveiling)?

[IlyasLahoz]

PS; Maybe one of the Saudi Sufis had a kashf (an unveiling)?
:thumbsup: Brilliant.

[client_x]

AssalaamuAlaikum

Wednesday 5 October in Singapore + Malaysia. :)

Wassalaam

[Mustafa]

Bismillah

As-salaam alaikum

The Saudi civil calender is precalculated based on the birth of the new moon at the end of each lunar month.

To bring people up to speed on the terminology: a new moon is invisible to both the naked eye and a telescope. A new crescent moon is a thin line visible a day after the new moon. The Saudis have the mistaken belief that 'new moon' equals 'new crescent moon' and this is why they consistently start lunar months a day early. A little depth of thinking on their part would go a long way.

*However* - to cover their bases, the religious establishment in Saudi send out six hilal committees all over the country at the 29th of every month to visually seek the crescent moon. These committees are sent into the desert where there is less light pollution.

Time and time again at the end of every Sha'ban, the hilal commitees report that they saw nothing and yet when they return to their respective cities they find that the government (for whatever reason) have declared the next day to be Ramadan.

In lieu of this, the Saudi Shaykh, Uthaymeen gave a fatwa telling all the other Muslim countries in the world not to follow the Saudi moonsighting. Regardless of the fact that his is not a sunni manhaj, the man does have a point.

With regards to the calculations, some people who clearly don't understand the astronomical calculations claim that there's 'room for error' in them. That's not how it works. If someone said to you 'I saw the sun at midnight' you wouldn't believe them, not only because you know from experience that it isn't true, but because with our current knowledge we know that position of the sun and earth at midnight makes it impossible for the sun to be seen then. Similarly, it was impossible to see the moon last night because the position of the earth, moon and sun last night made it impossible to do so. It's simply impossible, just like seeing the sun at midnight is impossible.

Whatever people saw last night (assuming they did) it was not the moon. This is why Imam Zaid and the Zaytuna Institute refused to accept any reports of moon sightings for last night. What's saddening is with all the work moonsighting.com, the Zaytuna institute, Shaykh Al-Afifi and many others have put into this issue, people still follow the Saudi announcement.

This information is not hard to come by. Whoever is making these announcements, whether in Saudi or anywhere else in the world, is responsible before Allah. This does not mean that those people are not pious or knowledgeable; it just means that in this particular issue, taqwa demands that they know all the facts before making announcements that affect the ibadah of millions of Muslims.

And Allah knows best

Wa salam

[maymunah]

Assalamu Alaikum,

I'm not an expert in these moon sighting matters so i leave it in the hands of those more learned. So when my brother or husband inform me the mosque has announced the moon has been sighted Ramadan is tomorrow I go with that.

So my first fast is today, according to the ulema in my vicinity, I follow them believing they are giving me the correct info to the best of their abilities. So am i wrong to fast today? All the mosques in my town have announced the first day of ramadan to be 4th October, 2005 except one mosque. But that one mosque always differs.

It would be nice if the uk would follow in the footsteps of bosnia, in moonsighting from their own country, rather than referring to saudi arabia or any other country. If representatives from all uk mosques could get together on an annual basis to do the moon sighting in unison that would be great. Nay it would be beautiful. It would ensure all the muslims in the uk begin ramadan together and Eid together, in unity as ordained.

Every year Ramadan arrives and every year i get some muslim arrogantly telling me "You're fasting today astagfirullah it's too early/too late. We are fasting xyz day, our ulema are correct, you should repent and follow us."

Ramadan shouldn't be about an ego trip or superiority contest, so why must muslim novices speak in such a lowly manner to me? After all i am only following what the ulema have told me.

Allah knows best, but I pray that this moon sighting business is sorted out in the uk so we can all fast together, pray tarawih together and celebrate Eid together ameen.

[Mustafa]

Wa alaikum as salaam

No, you are not wrong to fast today and no one has a right to treat you in a lowly manner for doing so. The people who are responsible are the people who make the annoucnements; it's those people that need to be confronted. In England, it shouldn't be a problem, so lnog as it's done in a polite manner. Here in Saudi Arabia, the Supreme Council has decreed that anyone who writes anything against their decision will be 'punished'!

However, what you are responsible for is to get as much knowledge on the subject as possible. If we read the 'Moonsighting Fundamentals,' we can see that it is a Fard-Kifaya to sight the moon in every month, and a Fard al-Ain to sight the moon for Ramadan, Shawwal and Dhul Hijjah.

And Allah knows best.

Wa salam

[mospike]

Beloved brother Mustafa you sound as if you are from Saudi? Are you for or against there way if sighting?

Is there nobody that can correct them?

Who do you follow?

I am just curious

[suhayl]

Here goes... just keep it cool or might have to close this thread

[Live for Islam]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8702

[Mariah]

Its' becos all those fasting on Tuesday follow Saudi, who always see the moon a day earlier than the rest of the world.

Somethings never change.

May Allah guide us all

:salam:

They dont see the moon a day earlier, they rarely see the moon...

Call it conspirecy theories or watever, but theirs is a preplanned calender, take last Hajj for example, at the last minute all was changed just so yawmul Arafah wouldnt be on friday hence coinciding with the Jummah khutbah.. its too much for them to handle...

This year the pre plan is that if they start on tuesday as they did, theres no possibility of eid being on friday... Two khutbahs, damn way too much for them :p

Why n9ot levae it up to God and the moon? I just dont understand... *sighs*

Wassalaam

[Hard2Hit]

AssalaamuAlaikum
Wednesday 5 October in Lahore, Pakistan.Wassalaam

um... no.

Dear God,

it was my first time with telescope and i was too anxious to see hooris in heavens... but nadda... missed both the hooris and the moon.

I'll fast tomorrow (Thursday).

[mospike]

hard2hit, from which country are you?
Why do you not follow the consensus from Ulama in your area regarding the beginning of the month of Ramadhaan

[Hard2Hit]

Why do you not follow the consensus from Ulama in your area regarding the beginning of the month of Ramadhaan

Please dont eat my babies... I do follow the consensus.

[Mustafa]

Beloved brother Mustafa you sound as if you are from Saudi? Are you for or against there way if sighting?

Is there nobody that can correct them?

Who do you follow?

I am just curious

Bismillah

As-salaam alaikum

Yes, I'm in Saudi. I'm for the hilal commitees actually seeing the moon and for Ramadan to be announced via that. I'm against the government overruling the hilal commitees time and time again.

Dr Saleh Al-Saab, the head of the six hilal commitees in Saudi Arabia, said yesterday that his teams did not see the moon on Monday. If you know Arabic and wish to speak to him, I can give you his cell phone number.

It is personally obligatory on us to know the rulings of an action before we undertake it. Shaykh Muhammad Afifi Al-Akiti's fatwa goes through the traditional position on sighting the moon as detailed here:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/moonsighting.htm

I know it's long, but please read through it all.

Relevent points from the fatwa:

1) When it is calculated that the moon cannot be seen on a given night, then no testimony of actual sighting is accepted. This is the way the Muslims of the past (who did calculate the passage of the moon) undertook this.

2) The authority who makes an incorrect announcement is held responsible by Allah.

3) As such, we ourselves do not attack that authority, we advise them. We follow whatever the authority decides and remain silent amongst our peers, but we must inform the authority of their error, so long as: a) we are able to b) we do it in private c) we do it politely

This is what is incumbent on all the men of the community. It's not good enough to say 'well, they've decided this, I'll follow, and not do anything.' We must do something if we are able to, or else we, too, are held responsible by Allah. This is the deen - it is not merely to hide away and do ibadah, it is to stand up for the truth.

As for who I follow, I live in Saudi and follow the Saudis. I fasted on Tuesday with the intention of following the consensus, not with the intention of Ramadan. No one here is able to say anything, for fear of punishment (Dr Saleh's announcement above was via a private mailing list). My intention in posting these messages was to inform people of what is going on here and, if you are able, to inform the relevent authority.

This is an issue of haq and batil. There is no difference of opinion here - you either see the moon and fast, or you don't (unless the authority you follow tells you to, but then you have to inform them of their error). There is no 'seventy excuses for your brother' issue here - if someone owes you money and doesn't pay you, that's when you make seventy excuses, but in an issue like this it's either right or wrong, and if it's wrong we have to, if we can, do something. Whether Saudi can be corrected, I don't know, but this blind following of Saudi in other countries can surely be corrected, can it not?

When Shaykh Nuh visited us last year, he personally told me that the qiblas of most of the mosques in Jeddah were wrong. The Shaykh, bear in mind, has researched extensively on how to calculate the qibla for his book, Port in a Storm.

The qiblas are wrong in Saudi. The phantom moonsightings are wrong. In the past, they killed sunni Muslims and prevented them from coming on Hajj. They still imprison them today, if they say the wrong thing.

What excuse do we have of following Saudi Arabia now?

I understand that a lot of people on this forum follow the Deobandi school. Please read the following pdf file that details fatawa from Dar ul-Uloom regarding the Saudi sighting (page 21):

http://www.moonsighting.com/moon_uk.pdf

And Allah knows best

Wa salam

[mishor]

I heard that ramadan is starting on Thursday in Bangladesh. Is this true?

[Hard2Hit]

I heard that ramadan is starting on Thursday in Bangladesh. Is this true?

Its true for most cities in Pakistan ;)

[ahkar]

http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/islam/mecca/ummalqura.htm

[Hanif030]

I believe the Saudi's are wrong again.
wt do u mean AGAIN they have never been wrong my dear bro

[Hanif030]

allhamduliallah first day of ramadan stared in uk on4/10/2005 may allah accept our duties ameen............

[Yaseen]

wt do u mean AGAIN they have never been wrong my dear bro
Tell me this is a joke. This is typical of the majority of people who follow Saudi. If you actually look into the matter a bit more open-mindedly you'll realise that indeed this is not the first time the Saudi's have mislead the masses like yourself.

Be brave and read the previous posts-inshallah you will see that it is not as clear cut as you think it is. Next step tell your 'ulama. That will be a start.

Wasalaam

[Live for Islam]

Come on, people. It's Ramadhan! Can't we just stop this constant bickering?

[Yaseen]

I feel these sort of threads increase peoples knowledge in relation the whole moonsightin issue. This can only be good as a lot of people are under the impression that you have to follow Saudi and they are 100% correct-they seem to think it is a sin to even question their decision.

I think Brother Mustafa, who resides in the blessed Hijaz, has highlighted how corrupt the the Saudis methodology is. The fact that none of the Hilal comiteess sighted the moon and the Saudis still announced Ramadhan just illustrates the severity of the situation.

Above all it is highly frustrating with families being split as to when they will begin this blessed month.

Could someone clarify when Shaykh Muhammad Afifi Al-Akiti begins Ramadhaan.

Wasalaam

[jaylen]

Ramadan Kareem to everyone. Thought this might be of interest to you guys since muslims love to argue the first and last days of Ramadan as always..this is what the Brits thought of...hmm makes me ill that muslims can't do anything together as an ummah, always a third party involved..so sad and just blah...


take a look. it's interested to say the least.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4311096.stm

[mospike]

This is what Islamtoday had to say about the Saudi Moonsighting debacle:

Question: Asalamualykum What is the Ruling regarding the issue of sighting the moon in Saudi Arabia. From the reports that we are getting they says that the moon is not sighted physically by a Human Being but it is astronomical calculations that determines the month in Saudi Arabia. Is this astronomical calculations that is done regarding the moon not against the hadith if Nabi (saw) wherein he said begin when you SEE the moon and end when you SEE the moon? Shukran

The Answer:
By Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî
Former Professor at Imam University
Wa `alaykum al-Salâm wa Rahmah Allah wa Barakâtuh
What you said about the crescent sighting in Saudi Arabia is very strange. We have lived in this country as have our fathers before us, and many of us know personally those who saw the crescent themselves and whose testimony was taken into account in certifying the start or end of the month. There are no false claims in this issue whatsoever. I wonder what makes you take up such a serious claim while you can see the problems that the Muslims are facing today and their suffering worldwide.
----------------------------
Dear questioner:
Al-Salâm `Alaykum wa Rahmah Allah wa Barakâtuh.
The moon is sighted in Saudi Arabia as follows: The courts stay open in Saudi Arabia duering the last nights of Sha`bân. The people who sight the Moon must swear an oath that they did so. Then two character witnesses must be provided to attest to the sanity and character of each person who claims to have made the sighting.
Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday.net chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî
----------------------------
Please also read the following from our archives:
The Answer:
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah writes:
I hold the opinion that Muslims should fast and celebrate îd with the rest of the people in the country wherein they reside, regardless of whether they rely on calculations, use both calculations and a crescent sighting, or rely exclusively upon a sighting. Allah likes people to be together and dislikes separation.
Muslims should avoid looking absurd in front of other nations, particularly in highly visible matters such as fasting, `Îd, and the pilgrimage.
----------------------------
From the website editors:
The decision on which sighting to follow (a local one, an international one, or a calculation) must ultimately be made by the scholars in your country. When that decision is made, everyone must follow it. There is no excuse for different communities within the same region to begin Ramadan and to celebrate `Id on different days. The issue at hand is based on ijtihâd and differences of opinion are allowed in this case. However, when it comes down to implementation, the community must be united. Whoever goes against the majority decision and divides the community is wrong. Therefore, even if you disagree with the ijtihâd that is reached by the majority of the scholars in your country, you must abide by their decision for the sake of Muslim unity.
And Allah knows best.
Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday.net chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî