Originally Posted by FususAlHikam Dhobi, Give waaz and naseehat, implement taleem in the house, keep her in a good religious circle, but never try to change her nature. If you try to straighten the rib Dhobi you will break it meaning you will end in a divorce guaranteed. If she slips up in reliigous matters though for example she doesnt pray, or she refuses to do pardah, or lets say she demands you bring tv in the house, or whatever, some deeni matter, you cannot tolerate that and you have to put in an islahi plan for her deen, that is your duty. Forget about changing her nature, but deen you have to take seriously. Islahi plan will go like this Dhobi: In the case she slips up in deen you will have to talk to alim e deen and decide what is the proper course of action. First you tell her that you are not happy she did such and such thing, if that doesnt work then distance yourself as in dont be so sweet and loving dont go so much attention. If that doesnt work you should then stop eating the food she cooks. She should get the hint by now. This is very painful to a good woman. If that doesnt work then stop sleeping next to her, this is very painful to a good woman. If that doesnt work then send her back to her parents, this should be a major reality check for her. It will give her an idea about life as a divorced woman. If that doesnt work then talk to an alim e deen and see about giving 1 revocable talaq and find out the method to do it according to sunnah. Hopefully you wont have to, she will turn around. Maybe you will have to and after she gets the shock of talaq she will turn around and you can take her back. This should be more than enough. But even if at 1 revocable talaq she doesnt budge then its better you let this woman go. ...and at what stage in this process of rectifying his wife's behaviour should he sit down and reflect in the possible wrong that he is doing in the issue or does that not come into it at all? Would you suggest at all that he sits down and considers his wifes request and if it is something that is reasonable and permissible then he should give her the one thing she pines for, if it makes her life happier and more bearable? Or should he just go around thinking 'women are crooked- she's displaying her nature' and assuming he himself has done nothing wrong. What advice would you give to a man who has no regard for his wife’s feelings and completely misunderstands her, whose wife is miserable and whose husband is only implementing the steps you have mentioned above due to his preconceived notion that it is wife’s nature to be difficult? Please, I beg, think about this objectively.
Mohtarma, We both are saying the same thing.
Dhobi, Give waaz and naseehat, implement taleem in the house, keep her in a good religious circle, but never try to change her nature. If you try to straighten the rib Dhobi you will break it meaning you will end in a divorce guaranteed. If she slips up in reliigous matters though for example she doesnt pray, or she refuses to do pardah, or lets say she demands you bring tv in the house, or whatever, some deeni matter, you cannot tolerate that and you have to put in an islahi plan for her deen, that is your duty. Forget about changing her nature, but deen you have to take seriously. Islahi plan will go like this Dhobi: In the case she slips up in deen you will have to talk to alim e deen and decide what is the proper course of action. First you tell her that you are not happy she did such and such thing, if that doesnt work then distance yourself as in dont be so sweet and loving dont go so much attention. If that doesnt work you should then stop eating the food she cooks. She should get the hint by now. This is very painful to a good woman. If that doesnt work then stop sleeping next to her, this is very painful to a good woman. If that doesnt work then send her back to her parents, this should be a major reality check for her. It will give her an idea about life as a divorced woman. If that doesnt work then talk to an alim e deen and see about giving 1 revocable talaq and find out the method to do it according to sunnah. Hopefully you wont have to, she will turn around. Maybe you will have to and after she gets the shock of talaq she will turn around and you can take her back. This should be more than enough. But even if at 1 revocable talaq she doesnt budge then its better you let this woman go.
@ shaykh, what you really feel about women is coming out in these posts- you see them as defective and unable to change; you see women as oppressive in general but feel that men are saints; you see the virtues of the men who stopped to help the woman in the street but you deny the ability for woman to change from her 'defective' nature and become an obedient servant of Allah; you assume that being created from man's rib means that it’s okay for you to talk about the faults of women whilst claiming a superior position for menfolk- this is not the attitude of Islam. I feel, after reading these posts, that you have had some personal experience that is distorting your view of women. Just because a woman has not been made a prophet, a khalifah or been given the right to issue talaq is does not mean she is insolent by default. Rather than question my asatidha, please go visit your own shaykh and ask him how a man should advise and treat a women who displays negative tendencies. Please also open up and reveal to him what we have glimpsed in these posts, i.e. your thoughts on the true nature of a woman and share that with us. I would be most surprised if your respected shaykh agreed with your views. I have one thing to request of you too- please let go of your preconceived notions and negativities about women. See the good that women can do and appreciate their natural characteristics of being loving, caring, nurturing and loyal beings. Have you not met a single women who possesses such qualities and has that not shown you how to appreciate these qualities instead of focusing on the negative?
Dhobi, you need to go on jamaat more. Can I make myself disappear? No. But can Jinn make themselves disappear? They are hidden most of the time. Why? They were created from a smokeless fire. Because they were created from such a thing they have certain qualities very different than mine. Women are created from a rib this is a fact. The rib is curved, crooked, "crooked" not in the sense of "evil" but crooked as in not straight, bent, curved, different, this is a fact. So women also exhibit that differnece, that curve, in their nature. Piety though, as I described it above, meaning that she has good character and qualities, changes a lot of things here - depending on how pious a woman is she will control those natural tendencies. A true Allahwalee, a true pious woman will also manifest the crooked, curved nature of the rib, but maybe once a year or once every few years or so. The less pious a woman the more she will exhibit that curved, crooked nature. But remember Dhobi, the word "crooked" here does not mean "evil" it just means not straight, bent, curved, as in, different than you. So Dhobi when you get married and she seems off or she says things that dont add up or she cries just out of no reason or she gets upset just out of no reason or she is ungrateful or makes strange comments - dont be alarmed, dont get scared. Its just that nature manifesting itself. When this happens you might think to slam her with some bad words or divorce her altogether - you cannot do that Dhobi. You have to display Husn e Akhlaq, good manners, like we read in the example of Hazrath Umar (ra). You have to give her some time to relax, or you have to see the other good qualities she has, dont sit there and fantasize about being with another woman...you will go from the frying pan into the fire.
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Also Mohtarma, Prophet salallallahu alayhi wa sallam said to marry pious women, what does that mean? Can you provide the tashreeh. What does piety mean in the context of marriage? Simply telling people "find a God fearing woman" I dont know how much that helps, I think people need more direction than that. Guys like Dhobi are going to go out there and find some woman who is steadfast in tahajjud, who goes 40 days every year masturat, who is top khadimah of her shaikh - but to me I ask what would her tahajjud do for her relationship with her husband? Not much. Its great she offers tahajjud but as far as relationship with husband goes what does the tahajjud really matter, that is more between her and Allah swt. What piety means in this context, which many people fail to explain to the common man, is character. Piety in the context of finding a good wife means find women who have good character and good qualities. These women are going to then handle their nature on their own and be the kind of women you are describing. The way you are going to find this out is by asking a 3rd party of the girl regarding her nature, her character, her qualities. Is she argumentative, is she fiery, how is her patience, how does she interact socially, how are her friends, who are her friends? These are major questions to ask and to find out.
Mohtarma, Where in any of these posts do you see me telling these guys to oppress women or where do you see me encouraging men to trash women, hurt them, oppress them? The thing is I am discussing nature here. The oppression men do that you are speaking of happens but it happens a little here and there, it is not in the default nature of man though. The other day I was driving down with my friend and we saw on the street a guy getting in a girls face he looked like he was going to beat her up, he was super angry. What did we do? Did we cheer him on? No. We stopped it. We called the police and within 2 minutes 3 police cars, all males, did they cheer him on? No. They slammed him on their car and saved the woman. Any man would agree that oppressing women is not right, why? It is against the nature of man to oppress women, it is against shujahat, it is against shahwath. Shahwath is to love passionately, to care for, to support. However, the nature of woman is made from a rib, you might not like this but you cannot deny this. All I am doing is telling these young guys like Dhobi who are clueless about women that "hey the rib manifests like this and this, even if she is the most pious waliyah in the world she is going to manifest the crooked curved nature of the rib at some point, when she does dont slam her but use husn e akhlaq." So three questions for you mohtarma: 1 - Has there ever been a female prophet - what have your asatidha said about this? 2 - Is khilafath ever given to females - what have your asatidha said about this? 3 - Are women given the right of talaq - what have your asatidha said about this? Those are my three questions to you and I await the answers.
Mohtarma, I had asked you in a previous post about if any female was a prophet or not. What have your asatidha said on this topic?
Originally Posted by FususAlHikam Mohtarma, Lets step outside our madrasah, khanqah and our 40 days and I will show you where this is happening. Maybe some of the above is a bit to extreme in some ways but people have expierenced it and currently are experiencing. The point is not islah of women that's not my thing at all. The point is to make young guys aware of the rib shape nature of women and how that can manifest anytime any place and then tell them to have patience on it and still show husn e akhlaaq to their women because from women they may get challenges. I'm sure there are women like you have described in the world, but they are not the majority and you are generalising. I'm sure there are men like this too- men who are controlling and do not allow their wives any freedom to live in her own home in peace, men who expect their wives to become doormats to his parents and children, men who do not accept that their wives have any other right or need besides looking after the house and cooking and cleaning all day, men who expect their wives to dress modestly and keep to themselves whilst they sit in front of their computer screens gawping and glaring at non mahram naked women, men who give their wives a budget of a 5th of the household income to run the house whilst thinking nothing of spending pounds on a night with the boys and men who treat their wives with as much disdain as an animal.... what if we had a sister who posted all these qualities of a few men and then generalised saying 'this is men are like- I'm just giving you a heads up so when you marry you know how to deal with them.' Would such a post actually benefit anyone? I doubt it- it would create more tensions in the family unit and make people see faults where there are none. I'm sure there are many brothers who read what you've written and roll their eyes, click their tongues and say 'yeah... my wife, my mother, my mother-in-law is actually just like that' but the question is how is this going to help him? When making peace between parties one should recognise the mistakes of both parties and tell him what he's doing wrong and tell her what she's doing. Instead you are telling the brothers here everything that could possibly be wrong with his wife and adding statements like: 'Despite all youve done for them they compare you to another man, their brother in law etc. This is just the nature of women. Their tendency is to be ungrateful. That is their test. When they fight that tendency then they reach very high heights in hereafter. So be ready for that comparison be ready for that bout of ungratefulness. It will come at the worst time.' In a world where many women are already under much unneccasary pressure and are constantly subjected to emotional blackmail from husbands and in-laws, such inflammatory views are extremely unhelpful.
Masha Allah, do you have Arabic version of poem?
Mohtarma, Lets step outside our madrasah, khanqah and our 40 days and I will show you where this is happening. Maybe some of the above is a bit to extreme in some ways but people have expierenced it and currently are experiencing. The point is not islah of women that's not my thing at all. The point is to make young guys aware of the rib shape nature of women and how that can manifest anytime any place and then tell them to have patience on it and still show husn e akhlaaq to their women because from women they may get challenges.
Originally Posted by Dhobi Kyun bachchey ko dara rahe hain? That's Scary!!! Don't worry, Br. Dhobi. Not all women are like this. In fact, I'm sure you'll find that if you chose a practising Muslim who fears Allah and tries her best to live her life according to His will, she will be a source of comfort, love, support and delight for you. There is much barakah and hikmah in marriage and your wife can easily become your greatest asset you have in this world. Treat her right and be mindful of her rights too, without stereotyping and any differences that will, inevitably, occur can be ironed out. Marriage is a journey and you will learn as you go along, but do remember that not all women are evil henchwomen. Preconceived ill notions is not the right way to start.
These recent posts on women all paint women in a negative light- as whining, complaining and ill mannered specimens. What is the purpose? I cannot see many women reading this poem and thinking 'ooh yes, that's me. I must change myself!' Realistically, how many practising Muslim women will throw a child with a dirty diaper at their husbands as soon as he enters the house and start insulting their husbands parents and demanding to go out sunbathing?? Its just an extreme version and not helpful at all. To advise women, one must first understand the nature and mentality of women and to make islah of women, it is imperative that one puts aside his prejudices against women first. Many women do not appreciate being stereotyped, in particular by our Muslim brothers.
Waqqas I hope it helps.
Dhobi, I am assuming your reaction is sincere, if so, then I'm glad that I am exposing you to the extreme situations that can occur in a marriage so that Allah forbid if it happens to you then you wont be surprised. Moulana Maaz is a fictional character. The point is that from time to time many women, not all, do say things like that. Despite all youve done for them they compare you to another man, their brother in law etc. This is just the nature of women. Their tendency is to be ungrateful. That is their test. When they fight that tendency then they reach very high heights in hereafter. So be ready for that comparison be ready for that bout of ungratefulness. It will come at the worst time. I'm just preparing you Dhobi so that one day when you come across this you remember me and remember that I told you dont worry about it and carrry on.
its pretty crazy that whatever has been going on with my life for the past month, you make a blog about the same topic.. really crazy!
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