what do Sunni's say about Nahjul Balagha

**Karim_sunni** · 16-01-2006, 12:59 AM

salaam aleikom,

what is our sunni stance against the commonly used book by the shia

'Nahjul Balagha'

are those sermons of ali authentic etc.

like this one sounds like someone is ****** / angry at women, after the incident with aicha

http://www.nahjulbalagha.org/SermonDetail.php?Sermon=79

**Muawiyah** · 16-01-2006, 10:04 AM

it's a collection of mostly fabricated sermons falsely attributed to Ali Radi Allahi `Anhu

**Omar HH** · 16-01-2006, 10:08 AM

The very end is very good though. Like the sayings of Imam `Ali (karam allahu wajjahu) I find no problem with that at all.

Skip the sermons - although Imam Zaid did do a lesson on one of those which you can find on Zaytuna.org

Alot of lies in the sermons - Mu`awiyah is right.

**Karim_sunni** · 16-01-2006, 12:03 PM

so this sermon of Ali could be a forgery, it sounds to me like an attack on Aicha (ra) , by quoting those deffiency arguments out of context

**Omar HH** · 16-01-2006, 12:23 PM

The sermons have alot of forgeries - not just "could be" alot of scholars warned Sunnis from reading this book.

It directly attacks al-Shaykhan (Abu Bakr and `Umar radi Allahu `Anhum) and Mu`awiyah (radi Allahu `Anhu)! Which is reason enough to avoid.

The very end with the sayings is good - instead of buying Nahjul Balagha (I have the Salafi-commentated version by Muhammad `Abduh which cuts out alot of Shi`a stuff I think wa Allahu `Alam - I got it from Halab from Sufis) then go buy this great translation of those sayings:

Thomas Cleary - Living and Dying with Grace the Counsels of Hazrat `Ali

That is the translation of the sayings of Nahjul Balagha by an excellent translator (I have alot of his books).

**Karim_sunni** · 16-01-2006, 01:06 PM

selefis are doing a good job indeed in exposing the shias, i've heard Ibn taymiyya had wirtten a refutation against the shia sect. you will see many shia's hate ibn taymiyya, i've noticed this on their websites.

**bintashraf** · 16-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Interesting...I have this book on my shelf and was wondering whether it's reliable or not. Just by reading the sermons you can tell it's all forgery backed up by hate against some of the sahaba. But I loved the last chapter devoted to sayings of Hazrat Ali (ra). Is it safe to say that they all have been attributed to Hazrat Ali (ra) in some way and that they're not also forged?

**salman** · 16-01-2006, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by bintashraf

Interesting...I have this book on my shelf and was wondering whether it's reliable or not. Just by reading the sermons you can tell it's all forgery backed up by hate against some of the sahaba. But I loved the last chapter devoted to sayings of Hazrat Ali (ra). Is it safe to say that they all have been attributed to Hazrat Ali (ra) in some way and that they're not also forged?

Salamu 'Alaykum

It contains both truth and falseness. Some of it is undoubtebly forgery as Imam Dhahabi makes clear in his Mizan Al I'tidal. He says regarding its compiler Sharif Murtada:

وهو المتهم بوضع كتاب نهج البلاغة ، وله مشاركة قوية في العلوم ، ومن طالع كتابه نهج البلاغة جزم بأنه مكذوب على أمير المؤمنين على رضى الله عنه

- He is the one blamed for forging the book Nahj al-Balagha.

Similarly, in his Siyar A`lam al Nubala' as Shaikh Gibril states Imam Dhahabi states:

المرتضى : العلاّمة الشريف المرتضى ، نقيب العلوية ، أبو طالب ، علي بن حسين بن موسى ، القرشي العلوي الحسيني الموسوي البغدادي. من وُلد موسى الكاظم. ولد سنة 355 ، وحدّث عن : سهل بن أحمد الديباجي وأبي عبـدالله المرزباني وغيرهما. قال الخطيب : كتبت عنه. قلت : هو جامع كتاب نهج البلاغة المنسوبة ألفاظه إلى الإمام عليّ رضي الله عنه ، ولا أسانيد لذلك وبعضها باطل وفيه حقّ ، ولكن فيه موضوعات حاشا الإمام من النطق بها ، ولكنْ أين المنصف؟ وقيل : بل جمع أخيه الشريف الرضي

- Al Murtada Abu Talib Ali ibn Husayn ibn Musa Al Musawi (355-436) is the compiler of the book 'Nahj al Balagha' the words of which are attributed to Imam Ali - Allah be well-pleased with him - and no chains of transmissions exist for such an attribution. Some of it is falsehood and it contains some truth, however, there are in it forgeries of which the Imam is completely innocent and never said - but where is he that judges fairly? It is also said that his brother is the compiler, al-Sharif al-Radiy. Al-Murtada's diwan (of poetry) is large.... in four volumes.

Wasalam

**jello** · 18-01-2006, 09:07 AM

Salam Alaykum,

I would like to ask about Muhammad Abduh's commentary of the Nahjul Balagha, ince he ould seem to be a respected scholar of the Sunnis who practically said very little about the wrongs in Nahjul Balagha in his commentary of the work.