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Thread: EDITORIAL: "Danish Cartoons: Islam vs. Freedom of Expression?"

  1. #11
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    This is my first post in this forum, and in any Islamic forum ever. First of all I am not a Muslim. I'm in fact a Traditionalist Catholic, or at least I strive to do my utmost to be so in a corrupt world.

    My initial comment to the topic at hand is that I cannot agree more with the editorial, in this point:

    "Muslims deserve an apology. And they seriously need to learn how to contain their emotions and express their displeasure using non-violent means."

    Without debating theological and interreligious questions, I would like to state that what the Editor exclaimed above is reasonable, rational, and just for any person witholding any position in relation to religion in general. The problem is that the actions of violent Muslims invalidate the requirement for an apology in the eyes of many people. In the meantime, the Roman Catholic Chuch has condemned the offensive depictions.

    I have not examined the actual papers that printed mentioned cartoons, although I've seen them online. If such spirit was used in insulting Christ, I would pray not to be enraged enough to act illegally against the offenders.

    However, the offensive cartoons, were probably not printed by Christian newspapers but by secular areligious ones indulging in a liberal induced freedom of expression. I can only say something about these type of people and institutions, they are baseless and overtly materialistic. They disdain Christ and the Church repeatedly, which in most cases have been the guiding lights of their ancestors. Unfortunately if people like me protest I'm termed a "fundamentalist", a "retrograde", et cetera. So as much as some Christians inspired by rage and lack of adequate knowledge of the political situation and their own religion, might bash Muslims indiscriminately, I would like to ask this:

    There are various examples of Muslims in Europe who have disdained aspects of Christianity, an example which comes to mind is the "Italian" (how a person with a Scottish father and an Egyptian mother is Italian is a mystery of naturalization procedures in relation to citizenship but they do not ascribe a change in nationality) Adel Smith who called the Crucifix "un cadaverino appeso a due legnetti" (a small cadaver on two small pieces of wood).

    The man suffered no substantial repurcussions from Catholics, and in particular from the Italian state due to the fact that he is safeguared by the principle of freedom of expression. I personally would not tolerate him and his activities on Italian soil. He uttered such a grave insult in the context of his call to remove Crucifixes from public places in Italy on the basis that it offends Muslims but legally because Italy is officially a secular state. How would you comment on his action?


    Moreover, menaces of terrorist attacks had been in the past been handed by Muslims offended by the depiction of Mohammed in hell in the (I think) medieval Basilica of San Petronio in Bologna, Italia. Would you condone such attacks?

    Last question, would you prefer a liberal secularized atheistic materialistic Europe or a truly Catholic/Christian Europe? This is an either/or question, no alternative answers, please.

    P.S. Post edited due to error in typing, edited bit is red font.
    Last edited by Ederico Figallo; 04-02-2006 at 06:35 PM.


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  3. #12
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    Allah grants the kuffar istidraaj in this world, which is the power to defy Allah with impunity. Rest assured, a severe punishment awaits them in hellfire when they die. This is Allah's sunnat and nobody can change this except Him. If Allah were to take them to task for every sin and transgression, there won't be any disbelievers on earth. This is predestination and we as humans have no control over Allah's will.


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    A calamity that befalls a muslim in this life is not really a punishment. It expiates their sins. Therefore, whoever died in a natural calamity is inshallah a martyr in Allah's path.


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    As far as I am aware,and indeed the reaction from the Ummar would suggest, This is the First time any Cartoon caricaturing Mohammed (PBUH), has been published.

    It is , I feel certain in saying from personal experience, a Daily occurence for the Western Media to caricature the Christian Faith and the Jewish faith, (although the latter is less common in recent times). Programmes such as "Father Ted" Mock Catholisism. "Spitting Image" Mocked the Pope, Jesus (PBUH), and God (Allah)." Vicar of Dibley" Likewise mocks the Church and the prophets.
    There is no limits to what has been published about Christian & Jewish faiths. Viz magazine is a monthly UK Adult Comic, which has evrything from Nuns on skateboards,Pedeohillic Preists, and God (Allah) himself in situations which I will not repeat on these Forums.

    Many Western Comedians center their entire act around ridiculing the Christian and Jewish faiths and their prophets. Every Vicar in the Church of England knows a few jokes based on their faith.

    The aforementioned Comic "Viz",had a character in which each episode he enters a church and causes faith based chaos.
    One issue instead of the usual monthly ridicule of Christianity, The character walked towards a Mosque saying "Hi Readers, today I thought I might Poke gentle fun at aspects of the Islamic Religion", In the next shot he swerved back across the road into a Christian church and said "On second thoughts, I dont think I will bother"


    [Quote]P.S A Jewish girl told me she sympathises with what Muslims are going through, but ignoring it would have been far better. Then it would have been old news. But we have drawn such attention to it, that most westeners who are without any religion are just getting more free time to mock us. Furthermore she said Arab papers frequently mock the Jewish religion and ppl via cartoon caricatures. So muslims who claim they are the only victims are kidding themselves.[Quote]

    This issue is now front page headlines across the world, and benign countrys like Denmark and Sweden are, in my opinion, hearing for the first time crowds chanting "Death to Denmark".
    A formal protest towards the Newspapers editor would have been far more effective than the storming of the EU embassy and delivering a "48 hour for the Government of the countrys where these papers are published to apologise or we bomb the Embassys and Kill Danish French and Swedes" deadline.
    To my Main Point!!!!


    One point that I would raise is, when Isa and Marium are mocked and parodyed,as they are every day, thousands of times a day and God (Allah) portrayed as in his presentation to Christians.(Shown usually as a Old Guy with a long white beard with bolts of lightning etc).

    The Ummar has never mentioned to my knowlage, any disatisfaction with this.
    Islam's basis is that the God of the people of the Book, is Allah, he is the same God who spoke to Abrahm (PBUH) and Mohammed is "His final prophet". Why do the Ummar remain utterly silent when cartoons of him (allah) are shown crashing to earth on a cloud , and other parodys, are screened with daily regularity?

    I mean by this post absolutly no offence, but maintain that this is a very valid point. By all means demonstrate anger over pictures of Mohammed. But please in future do so with your other prophets and God (Allah) himself.


  7. #15

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    You make a valid point...However to my knowledge there has been protests over portrayals of Isa (Jesus) (Upon him be peace) and other issues in the past by Muslim organisations.

    As you mentioned the proliferation of the west mocking Allah,religion and Prophets is alarming and should be dealt with by Muslims, Christians and Jews alike. In the future insha Allah (God Willing) we will do so as much as we can in our capacity - it must be noted that 'freedom of speech' is being totally taken out of context and so it will be difficult to protest every incident but at least to an extent that a precedent is set that freedom of speech does not include making a mock of religion (ANY religion)and their leaders ...religion is a very serious thing.

    I think this component of 'freedom of speech' should be re-addressed by those concerned.
    "Alam ya’lam bi an-nal laha yaraa"

    Translation--> "Does he not know that verily Allah is watching"


    (Surah 96 Verse 14).

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  8. #16

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    TSUNAMI
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    "Alam ya’lam bi an-nal laha yaraa"

    Translation--> "Does he not know that verily Allah is watching"


    (Surah 96 Verse 14).

    _________________________________________



  9. #17
    Junior Member marv's Avatar
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    I see daily in the Arab News and Yemen Times as well as other newspapers in Muslim countries, articles and political cartoons slandering and belittling Jews and Westerners, namely Americans and Europeans. But mosques and embassies are not attacked and/or burned in Israel or Western nations.

    To be distressed over something is one thing, but to incite and excite to violence is quite another. Now since nowhere are Muslims required to view these cartoons, it is difficult to understand why Islamic religious leaders have taken it upon themselves now to distribute them in Muslim countries. Remember that these cartoons were published in October 2005, five months ago.

    I suspect ulterior motives.
    Too often we confuse wisdom with knowledge, forgetting that the antonym of wisdom is not ignorance, but folly.


  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by amatullah
    You make a valid point...However to my knowledge there has been protests over portrayals of Isa (Jesus) (Upon him be peace) and other issues in the past by Muslim organisations.

    .
    If there has, then I stand corrected. I am a person who is willing to accept a mistake if one has been made.

    However to my knowlage, the dissatisfaction over the Wests portrayal of God/Allah, who even Mohammed (PBUH) is servant to, has not produced a uprising of the Ummar previously, to the degree that we are seeing today.

    Perhaps a Muslim organisation complained to a TV company with a letter following the production of "Monty Pythons :Meaning of Life"? Perhaps after The Morcambe and Wise show was aired on TV, a muslim phoned the BBC? Perhaps in the Christian demonstration against the "Jerry Springer :The Opera" where out of 60 million Britons a mere 200 Christians demonstrated at the outright blatant and deliberate abuse hurled at Jesus and God. Perhaps here a Muslim joined them?

    The weight of your arguement, with due respect, as i am aware that I am a new poster here, seems in my opinion very light.

    Perhaps there is some other reason why this Uprising of the Ummar over these images of the Prophet has occoured?

    The reasons for the inequality, why Muhameds parody should elicit such a response, and "relative"silence over portrayals of Allah /God, hold in my opinion very deep consequences for the Ummar.

    I am painfully aware as a non muslim that raising these issues may cause offence. And this is without doubt something I do NOT wish to cause. However, I would like to encourage a heathy debate on these issues.

    The prophet (PBUH) himself said "seek knowlage, even if it is in China".


  11. #19
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    Most non-muslim (kafirs) have found excuses to cover up the original crime which was committed ... Your motives can be questioned not ours. Don't tell us we are violent and we don't do this and don't do that .. leave that for later. RIGHT Now the issue is these disgusting cartoons. Don't try to justify it with your silly excuses and cover up the main issue by bringing up completely irrelevant issues.

    If you have nothing sensible to say about these cartoons, please go elsewhere to vent out your anger and hatred for Islam. Most muslims including those on Sunniforum take any insult on the Prophet Muhammad extremely seriously.

    All of you have been warned.


  12. #20
    Junior Member marv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnilink
    All of you have been warned.
    Is this the response by a Muslim to non-Muslims?
    Too often we confuse wisdom with knowledge, forgetting that the antonym of wisdom is not ignorance, but folly.


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