EDITORIAL: "Danish Cartoons: Islam vs. Freedom of Expression?"

[Tommi]

Most non-muslim (kafirs) have found excuses to cover up the original crime which was committed ... Your motives can be questioned not ours. Don't tell us we are violent and we don't do this and don't do that .. leave that for later. RIGHT Now the issue is these disgusting cartoons. Don't try to justify it with your silly excuses and cover up the main issue by bringing up completely irrelevant issues.

If you have nothing sensible to say about these cartoons, please go elsewhere to vent out your anger and hatred for Islam. Most muslims including those on Sunniforum take any insult on the Prophet Muhammad extremely seriously.

All of you have been warned.

Actually most Kafirs are tripping over themselves to say that they "condem the slander".

I will personally apologise as a secularist for the danish press's actions.(Though im not actually danish)

Can you link where i said Muslims are Violent please? I seem to have forgotton writing that.

I have , as accepted by some posters , some valid points about these cartoons based on western portrayal of the other prophets (Upon whom be peace). I have no hatred for islam. Just questions. I have not insulted the Prophet (PBUH).

Thank you for the warning. What are the consequenses?

[eTeacher]

I see daily in the Arab News and Yemen Times as well as other newspapers in Muslim countries, articles and political cartoons slandering and belittling Jews and Westerners, namely Americans and Europeans. But mosques and embassies are not attacked and/or burned in Israel or Western nations.

I suspect ulterior motives.

Br. Marv,

Every single day across the world, the Muslims are maligned and mocked but there were never any protest similar to which are taking place these past few days. So the question now is.... What has happened this time which never happened before? The simple answer is, this time our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him and all the previous prophets as well) has been mocked. That is why this time Muslims are outraged.

Yes, in Muslim countries, what you wrote occurs. But I don't think they mock the Prophets because we Muslims venerate all the Prophets like Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus and Muslims have spoken out in the past when the previous prophets have been mocked. It's not the Muslims fault if the Jewish people are not ready to protest for Prophet Moses or the Christians for Prophet Jesus.

So when non-Muslims mock and make fun of Islam or Muslims, people will tolerate it to a certain extent. But when the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihe Wasallm is defamed, then every single Muslim will be hurt. Some more than others.

Also, Br. Marv, we do not condone incitement towards violence. What happened with the burning of the embassies in a Muslim country is totally wrong and we will never praise those actions. That happened because of a lack of Islam and not because of Islam.

Tommi, I'm impressed by your courtesy and the way you made your comments. You could have easily come on this board and made fun of Muslims openly but you didn't. Props for that. Also, I think the word you are trying to write is "Ummah" with an 'h' and not "Ummar" with an 'r'. Ummah literally means a nation or a group of people.

Peace,
Nazim Mangera

[eTeacher]

Thank you for the warning. What are the consequenses?

Section 2.2 of this forum (SunniForum) rules clearly states that Prophet Muhammad as well as the all the previous prophets (Peace be upon all of them) must be respected.

A link to the rules:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...267#post101267

Contravention of Rule 2.2 will warrant an immediate ban from SunniForum.

Once again, Tommi and Brav and every other Non-Muslim posting on SF, thank you very much for taking the time out to post on SF and we hope that you will enjoy the time you spend here on SF. And we sincerely hope out of brotherly love that one day you will become like the following people:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...289069&q=islam

Sincerely,
Nazim Mangera

[traveler]

As a Muslim, i feel angered and offended with the Danish cartoons potraying our beloved Prophet S.A.W. This is an insult and total insensitivity towards other religion. We as Muslims have the rights to be angry, voice out our displeasure and protest outright this unbecoming actions. However, whatever actions we take must be done with adab.

Our beloved Rasulullah S.A.W is highly praised for his adab and we as his follower must follow suit. We can still remember when Rasulullah S.A.W went to Taif to spread Islam, hoping the people of this town will be receptive to his message, which has been rejected by the Makkans for over a decade.

But the people of Taif was just as cruel and unwilling to accept Rasulullah. They not only scorn his message of God's Oneness but also turned their youth against him. They pelted him with stones and hurled abuses at him. Archangel Gabriel was sent to him to aid him with an option: to have the whole town destroyed, with God's will. But the Prophet S.A.W said "No!" and instead of cursing, he prayed for them that one day their descendants will become Muslims and Alhamdulillah now we see Rasulullah's prayer fulfilled.

From that example, we Muslims all over the world should pray and dua' that one day the Danish and Europeans too will be shown the Light and become Muslims, Insha'Allah...

Quran 21:107 We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.

[amatullah]

If there has, then I stand corrected. I am a person who is willing to accept a mistake if one has been made.

However to my knowlage, the dissatisfaction over the Wests portrayal of God/Allah, who even Mohammed (PBUH) is servant to, has not produced a uprising of the Ummar previously, to the degree that we are seeing today.

Perhaps a Muslim organisation complained to a TV company with a letter following the production of "Monty Pythons :Meaning of Life"? Perhaps after The Morcambe and Wise show was aired on TV, a muslim phoned the BBC? Perhaps in the Christian demonstration against the "Jerry Springer :The Opera" where out of 60 million Britons a mere 200 Christians demonstrated at the outright blatant and deliberate abuse hurled at Jesus and God. Perhaps here a Muslim joined them?

The weight of your arguement, with due respect, as i am aware that I am a new poster here, seems in my opinion very light.

Perhaps there is some other reason why this Uprising of the Ummar over these images of the Prophet has occoured?

The reasons for the inequality, why Muhameds parody should elicit such a response, and "relative"silence over portrayals of Allah /God, hold in my opinion very deep consequences for the Ummar.

I am painfully aware as a non muslim that raising these issues may cause offence. And this is without doubt something I do NOT wish to cause. However, I would like to encourage a heathy debate on these issues.

The prophet (PBUH) himself said "seek knowlage, even if it is in China".

Brother you cannot expect Muslims to defend other religions when they are not defending it themselves. What is the ruling with regards to God being drawn as a man in other religions? As far as I know Christianity believes God to appear in a male form (God Forbid) whilst Muslims believe that Allah does not assume any gender or form - Allah is the Supreme Being - .

Can you see the beauty in Islam? By prohibiting depictions of Prophets and God and any pictures for that matter Islam cuts off problems from the root. This has not been respected by some other faiths so now it has increased to such a state that it has become normal. Christians don't protest when pictures of what they believe to be God is drwan, now it is gone out of hand and this is being disrespected. If it was objected to right at the beginning by Christians and Jews these problems would not occur. Surely if someone attempts to draw Allah as a form I will definately be totally outraged, but I don't believe God to assume a form and other faiths do so if I protest to this my views will not be respected , it will become a religious debate and freedom of speech will be used as an excuse.

Yes, in Muslim countries, what you wrote occurs. But I don't think they mock the Prophets because we Muslims venerate all the Prophets like Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus and Muslims have spoken out in the past when the previous prophets have been mocked. It's not the Muslims fault if the Jewish people are not ready to protest for Prophet Moses or the Christians for Prophet Jesus.

[Qingu]

Hello, everyone.

This is my first post on this forum. I'm an atheist and I suppose my confusion over Muslims' response to these cartoons has inspired me to interact and (hopefully) learn more about Islam in general.

Regarding the cartoons, there are several things I'm confused about.

1. Why are Muslims demanding apologies/exacting retribution from nations or even from Europe as a whole? In Western countries, governments have no power or say in what newspapers publish. Thus, it seems to me that nations cannot logically be held accountable for what their free presses print. Do you think this aspect of Muslims' responses to the cartoons is based on ignorance of how free presses work in western cultures? Or is it more of a demand for western nations to censor their newspapers?

2. The author of the first post of this thread believes Muslims are outraged at the Prophet's portrayal not in and of itself, but rather because the cartoons portray him disrespectfully, as a violent terrorist, and thus views this as an attack on the prophet's character. But I saw the cartoons and this was not my interpretation at all. In my opinion, the cartoons seemed more like parodies of Islamophobia itself. Especially the "we ran out of virgins" one. This is the kind of humor you find in Mel Brooks movies. Hitler is obviously very offensive to Jews, but in Mel Brooks' "The Producers," the Nazis are portrayed in such a cliched, silly way that it should be obvious that Brooks is not actually promoting Nazism. Similarly, the "we ran out of virgins" cartoon is so cliched and stupid that it is obvious, to me at least, that the author is not seriously insulting your religion, but rather caricaturing those who would insult Islam in that manner. Overly ironic humor is pretty common in the West. Are you entirely certain that you're outraged for the right reason?

3. Many Muslims have reacted violently to these cartoons. I've seen pictures of protestors holding up signs that say "Behead anyone who insults the Prophet," "Death to Denmark," "Death to France," and so on. And in Syria, a mob of protestors torched the EU's embassy. To tell you the truth, this is incredibly disturbing to me. I live in America, and many Americans are extremely religious, evangelical Christians. I am sure that we print stuff here that is as offensive to evangelical Christians as those cartoons are offensive to devout Muslims. But I can't even remember an evangelical protest calling for violence or death--even among the incredibly ignorant groups. I'm speaking generally, but why do Muslims as a whole seem to react with such violence when they are offended? Especially since the reason for the offense is supposedly because the Prophet is portrayed as excessively violent? It seems to me that by reacting in such a violent way, Muslims are becoming the caricature of Islam that they are taking offense at, which seems quite hypocritical.

[sman]

http://www.petitiononline.com/rmdbc123/petition.html

To: Prof. Dr., Dr.h.c. mult. EKMELEDDIN IHSANOGLU, The Secretary General of the Oragnization of Islamic Conference.
In the name of Allah, the Most Benevolent , the Most Merciful
The journey of a thousand mile begins with a one single step – lets take that step!

His Excellency Prof. Dr. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, THE SECRETARY GENERAL
OF THE ORGANIZATION OF THE ISLAMIC CONFERENCE.

May this letter reach you in the best of spiritual health and happiness.

As you are fully aware of the situation regarding caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) which first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September 2005. These caricatures were reprinted again on the day of Eid-ul-Adha – one of the holiest days in an Islamic calendar, 10 January 2006 – in a Christian evangelical newspaper in Norway.

It would be naïve to think that it was just a mere co-incidence, or just an exercise of freedom of expression. These caricatures were design for one purpose and one purpose only – to incite the Muslims by attacking their beloved Prophet Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him), in order to gauge their blood temperature – does it still boil if we attack Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him)? They got their answer, NO!

Once it was discovered that Muslim’s blood is as cold as it can ever be, and their leaders are as Incompetent, and as Impotent as we have known them to be. The major newspapers across Europe launched an all out war on Islam and Muslims by attacking Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). They begin to reproduce the caricatures on February 1st, 2006 in major newspaper across Europe, in support of Danish newspaper in the name of “freedom of expression.”

“Freedom is not merely the opportunity to do as one pleases; neither is it merely the opportunity to choose between set alternatives. Freedom is first of all, the chance to formulate the available choices, to argue over them – and then the opportunity to choose.” C Wright Mills.

The great philosopher, Sir John Stuart Mills, whose lifetime’s work is the basis of western society’s notion on freedom and liberty, contains a very clear and concise exception called the “harm principle.”

“The only part of the conduct of anyone for which he is amenable to society is that which concerns others. In the part, which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”

Liberty and Freedom has its own set limits and defined boundaries. Hence, the right to “freedom of expression” of a cartoonist, or media organization is unsettling because it is causing a great deal of harm to one-fifth of worlds population. A large number of whom reside in Europe, and other non-Muslim nations.

The politicians in Europe are contradicting their own self established beliefs, upon which their system posits, and creating a very dangerous precedence for the future.


Almighty Allah says "Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Almighty God and His Messenger, and that you assist and honour him (Muhammad) ... " (48:8-9).

[And We have not sent you forth but as a mercy to mankind.] (Al-Anbiyaa’: 107)

"None of you will reach belief till I become dearer to him than his children, parents and all humans" [Al Bukhari & Muslim].


Our faith will never be correct, nor will it ever be complete unless and until Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) is more dearer to us then our own soul.

The ummah of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) is now at a crossroad. Because we state unequivocally, “there’s no one worthy of worship but Allah (the God almighty), and Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) is his messenger.” For having that belief, Muslims have been humiliated, robbed, raped, tortured, maimed, killed, and now adding insult to injuries those who have a disease in their hearts are attacking our reason for existence; attacking our souls – yet, our Muslim leaders remain silent – Why?

Atleast 1 western media outlet openly declares that Islamic leadership is: “Incompetent, and Impotent,” and now we understand why?

Allah (SWT) has given the Muslim leaders, a fabulous opportunity to prove the above statement wrong.

The Ummah of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him), is not just any fly by night Ummah. We dominate one-fifth of the world population, with 57 strong nations, and control world’s most demanding natural resource – OIL!

These 57 nations are economically vibrant, and politically strong, with its own union – The Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC).

The OIC charter clearly states under article:

1.Strengthen:
C) The struggle of all Muslim people to safeguard their dignity, independence and national rights.

3. Work To:
A) Eliminate racial discrimination and all forms of colonialism.

The time has come for our leaders to safeguard our dignity, by safeguarding the honour and dignity of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). Eliminate racial discrimination and all forms of colonialism, if you are so much committed to it. Otherwise step aside and let those take over who will -- Inshaa Allah!

“Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.” Frederick Douglass.

The Muslim citizens of the world demand our leaders at the OIC, representing 57 Muslim nations lives up to its own charter, on behalf of all Muslims, and take the following actions immediately:

1) Any European or Non-European nation, whose newspapers, or any media outlet has participated in this so-called exercise of their “freedom of Expression” –which contradicts their own self establish beliefs. All Muslim nations, under the leadership of the OIC must:

i) Cut off all diplomatic and economic relationships with them.
ii) Recall all Muslim state ambassadors from those countries.
iii) Shut down their embassies, and send their ambassadors back to their respective nations – immediately!

2) Any nation which already has, or even tries to republish those blasphemous caricatures, a heavy duty must be impose on their imports, as well as if the law allows, a hefty levy must be placed on all exports to those nations.

i) Yes, we will suffer – no doubt! However, are we willing to lose our faith over it? We have to decide what is worse. We must remember, “Allah is a sufficient provider,” and if we are still in doubt, then we seriously need to examine our hearts, and our faith in Allah (SWT).

3) Unanimously, with Courage, Dignity and Honour, we must send a clear and concise message – enough is enough – and the Muslims will not tolerate any such blasphemy about Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him).


4) A demand must be made to the European Union, and other western nations that they introduce and adapt a law which would guarantee that no such exercise of freedom of expression will ever occur, and if it does, the perpetrators will be brought to justice.

5) The leaders of those nations whose media has committed this heinous crime against Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) must publicly apologize to the Muslim citizens of the world.

6) Those whom have participated, a class action lawsuit must be filed against those individuals, as well as the media organization, which dared to publish it, or propagate it.

i) The only exception be given if they would be willing to publish or present an entire biography of Mohammed (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him), by a reputable scholar from the Muslim world.

7) If they agree to our terms and conditions, then the relationship should be normalizing.

And those who accept Faith subsequently, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith in your company,- they are of you. But kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the Book of Allah. Verily Allah is well-acquainted with all things.
Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #75)


Sincerely,

The Undersigned

[Tommi]

Hello, everyone......

.

Hi Mate.

I was wonderng to what extent the lack of understanding about a free press affects this issue as well. Specifically the adressing of the ultimatum to the Governments of countries who have published these articles.

In Palastine Syria etc etc, muslim nations under Totalitarian Governments, the people there have never experienced freedom of speech or press as we in the west know it. That is, I know a easy thing to say, but a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

I am a Ex- Soldier ,British Army, who served in Iraq, and know from personal experience how difficult freedom of speech is to understand if you have never had it. Shortly after Saddams regeime fell, one of the first newspapers up started gushing pro-UK /US propaganda in very over -the -top style. We said to the Publishers, "Thats great, but you know you can Slag us off if you like as well." The staff looked very uncertain about this. It was a new concept. Previously the penalty for mild critisism was a bullet in the head.

In my Opinion, The Gunmen who issued the ultimatum to the Danes think that It's the Danish government who has ordered this cartoon printed rather than a geeky newspaper editor of a tiny publication.

One thing is certain. If a formal protest in a letter had been delivered from the Islamic Council, the paper would have never printed this sort of thing again. And about 2000 readers of the paper would have seen the images.

Storm a Embassy, Order a day of rage, Threaten killings & Burn Flags and HEY! The whole world has seen these images. And others.

[Tommi]

Brother you cannot expect Muslims to defend other religions when they are not defending it themselves..

Actually the Christian Church is very Vocal in its condemnation of such things. The Protests against the "Springer : The Opera" Made front page news for example.
The point I am making , I Reiterate, is that the Ummah have risen in rage at Mohammed (PBUH)'s caricatures. But they have never ever complained even mildly over Musa's image falling down the mountain for example or God/Allah getting "Locked out of heaven" in contempory cartoons.

I Understand that Islam does not beleive that Allah has a visible form. I myself beleive that his form cannot be understood in earthly terms and so can accept that this distances Muslims from identifying the pictures as representing Allah.
But the Quran clearly indicates that the God of the Jews and the God of the Christians is Allah. If anything I would have expected MORE outrage at the very portrayal, by infidel of him, than has been shown over Mohammed (PBUH).

The answer must lie deeper.

[Salah ud Deen]

Dear Muslims,

I am a Christian and I love Jesus Christ for what he did for me. One of my co-workers, who is an atheist, had e-mailed me a bunch of caricatures of Jesus, which I thought were offensive. I understand that if you believe that Muhammad was a prophet of Almighty God, you would be offended. I do not understand one thing, and I hope maybe somebody can help me. If Mohammed was a prophet of a living God, then he is in heaven with God. God al Almighty, He sees and hears everything, and He is also absolutely powerful. Why do weak humans, who are nothing but a dust, are left to defend the prophetsí good name? If He is with God, then why would not God defend him? We all know how powerful God is, we all remember the Tsunami, that killed more then 200,000 people (majority of whom were Muslims and it took place in Christmas Eve). We remember the earthquake in Iran in 2004 that killed more then 100,000 people (once again, majority of whom were Muslims and it took place in Christmas Eve also). We remember another earthquake that shook Pakistan just recently and left more then 3 million people homeless and killed many (again, majority were Muslims). Now, if making fun of prophet is a big sin, that God will rain his judgment on the Danes and the rest of the Europeans, and if this sin is so great, then the judgment should also be proportionate. Are we going to see a huge Tsunami coming from the ocean and covering the continent of Europe?

Sincerely,
Timothy

Are you trying to say that dead Muslims was a Christmas gift to Christians? You people are as crazy as the salafi's.