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Thread: Al-Khidr - dead or alive?

  1. #21
    Senior Member tilmeedh's Avatar
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    @Omar, I am aware of what Imam Al-Nawawi stated, and as I mentioned before I do not deny the fact that many great scholars believed that Al-Khidr (a) is alive.
    However, my concern specifically is that this belief is solely based on people's own accounts of meeting with Al-Khidr. Now people can be deceived by Shaytan into thinking that the person they met was Al-Khidr. So is there any stronger proof of his existence.

    Also, have you read Imam Asqalani's الزهر النضر في أخبار الخضر? Its a small booklet of ~ 48 pages.
    He mentions the examples of Al-Nawawi, Umar bin Abdul Aziz, Ibn Al-Zubair and many many more...
    And YET he argues against these in light of the Quran and Sunnah. So ultimately, the belief in the existence of Al-Khidr is not based on the two canonical sources, rather, it is based on the anecdotes of people. It can be in one of the following forms:
    1) The 'man' himself stating that he is Al-Khidr
    2) People saw a stranger who suddenly disappeared and they thought it was Al-Khidr
    3) The person saw a (stranger) man and felt that it was Al-Khidr
    4) The person met a stranger and people started saying to him that it must be Ilyas (a) or Al-Khidr
    5) A third person relates the anecdote of a person who met the 'man' and decided that it was Al-Khidr
    6) and so on...

    Please read Asqalani's book, as he raises some really good points (book attached with this post).

    @thetruth: I agree, its pointless to debate with 'the Shaykh' .
    However, I am now curious myself, especially after reading Asqalani's book.


    WS
    Attached Files Attached Files


    -Abu Madyan


  2. #22
    Banned celt islam's Avatar
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    Asalaamualaykum, Al Khider [ as ] is alive and wether people believe it or not, you can take a horse to water , but one cannot make the horse drink!

    This topic is as old as the hills, leave it to ALLAH, wa salaam.


  3. #23
    Senior Member Muhammed Bahauddin's Avatar
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    As Salamu Alaikum

    I think for a Sufi its impossible to deny the life of Khidr.

    Look only to the stroy of Abdulhalik al Gujduwani from the Naqshibandi Silsila, where Khidr cames and teaches him how to make "La ilahe ilallah" dhikr.

    Every Sufi should know, that Khidr is alive. I mean, there are enough evidence. Look in Mollah Abdurrahman Jamis "Nafahatul Uns" or I think he is mentioned in "Tadhkiratul Awliya" of Fariduddin Attar.

    Even Imam Rabbani Ahmed Faruk es Serhendi accepts him alive. Imam Nawawi says, that the major of scholars accept him alive.

    So, the prophet said: "The major of my ummah will never agree on a wrong thing."

    As Salamu Alaikum


  4. #24
    Senior Member tilmeedh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed Bahauddin
    As Salamu Alaikum

    I think for a Sufi its impossible to deny the life of Khidr.

    Look only to the stroy of Abdulhalik al Gujduwani from the Naqshibandi Silsila, where Khidr cames and teaches him how to make "La ilahe ilallah" dhikr.

    Every Sufi should know, that Khidr is alive. I mean, there are enough evidence. Look in Mollah Abdurrahman Jamis "Nafahatul Uns" or I think he is mentioned in "Tadhkiratul Awliya" of Fariduddin Attar.

    Even Imam Rabbani Ahmed Faruk es Serhendi accepts him alive. Imam Nawawi says, that the major of scholars accept him alive.

    So, the prophet said: "The major of my ummah will never agree on a wrong thing."

    As Salamu Alaikum


    I agree that many 'ulema have either related their own or other people's accounts of meeting with Al-Khidr (a). This includes great scholars like Al-Nawawi and Al-Sakhawi, as well as great people from the Salaf, like Umar bin Abdul-Aziz.

    That is not being contested at all. What I want to know is how a person can verify that the 'stranger' that someone met was really Al-Khidr, and not just a Jinn playing tricks, which is quite possible.
    Also, in the case of disagreement.. is it not safer to abide by the Quranic injuction to "return to Allah and His messenger"?


    WS


    -Abu Madyan


  5. #25
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    There is no "safer" when there are two valid views. They are both valid without blame.

    Wassalam.


  6. #26
    Senior Member Muhammed Bahauddin's Avatar
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    As Salamu Alaikum

    I think, an Awliya would recognize a Jinn.

    Especially when we look to the Awliya, we see that most of them could see the Batin (invisible). Remember the Hadis: "Beware of the looking from a Mu'min cause he looks with the Light of Allah."

    There is a good example for this Hadith from Junayd al Baghdadi. Junayd was giving a Dars and a Monk camed in with the clothes of the Muslims. He asked Junayd of the Meaning from this Hadith and Junayd said: "First take off your Monk Clothes under the Muslim clothes." The man was shocked and became a Muslim.

    Do you really think, a stupid Jinn could play a game with so much awliya??
    Pls, first should we know, what an Awliya is and we should know there power which they did get from Allah (c.c)

    as salamu alaikum


  7. #27
    Senior Member al-Hanbali's Avatar
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    Imam as Safarini, the late Hanbali Imam, indicated in his book of creed that al Khidr is alive, and it is Khidr who will be the man who denies the Dajjal and is killed and brought back to life by him.

    But like Omar said, its a valid difference. In sha Allah, i will locate a fatwa from Ibn Taymiyah in this regard.


  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar HH
    There is no "safer" when there are two valid views. They are both valid without blame.

    Wassalam.
    Well, in many cases there is more safety in not having any opinion at all. This seems to be such a case. If one asserts either that Khidr(as) is alive or that he is dead, then one may be asked on the Day of Judgment, as to why one made such a statement. Hence it is better and safer to just avoid making any judgment, as there is nothing decisive in these issues, and we are not required to have any belief about them.

    I think that's what brother tilmeedh was getting at.

    Wa al-Salam,



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilmeedh


    I agree that many 'ulema have either related their own or other people's accounts of meeting with Al-Khidr (a). This includes great scholars like Al-Nawawi and Al-Sakhawi, as well as great people from the Salaf, like Umar bin Abdul-Aziz.

    That is not being contested at all. What I want to know is how a person can verify that the 'stranger' that someone met was really Al-Khidr, and not just a Jinn playing tricks, which is quite possible.
    Also, in the case of disagreement.. is it not safer to abide by the Quranic injuction to "return to Allah and His messenger"?


    WS
    Brother tilmeedh: as to how the 'ulema knew they had met Al-Khidr and not a deceptive jinn, that sounds to me like a very advanced matter, a bit like the theory of general relativity. Those scholars knew what we do not know, and saw what we do not see in matters of the unseen world.

    But here is one suggestion: the 'ulema of tasawwuf insist on the power and benefit of keeping company with the awliya, for when one keeps company with the awliya, one finds one's heart strengthened in faith, and one finds one's practice of Islam getting deeper.

    Thus, if a scholar meets a mysterious figure who claims to be Al-Khidr, and the scholar finds that as a result of this meeting, his own practice of Islam dramatically improves, and his attachment to the Sunna and the Shariah become much deeper than before, and his taqwa reaches new levels, then this is evidence that the person he met was in fact a wali of Allah, since it is the awliya of Allah who have this effect. And if the person he met was a wali of Allah, then he was telling the truth, and therefore he really was Al-Khidr(as).

    I'm not saying this is how the scholars actually reasoned, but they might have.

    Wa al-Salam,


  10. #30
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    There is no safer on this. No `Alim I have ever talked to talked about "safer" with regards to valid views in `Aqeedah.

    Such as the Maturidi position (which I believe is errant) that the mind can find out with it's own reason that killing is haram. There is no safer. Both views are valid although I believe the Maturidi view is wrong agreeing with the vast majority of the `Ullema of Tassawuf. Yet I do not say "it is safer not to be Maturidi" as that would be an ignorant statement. What I have learned is when there is a valid difference in `Aqeedah both ways then both ways are okay and valid without any safer and unsafer.

    Shaykh Nuh has an article on Nur wa Bashar which is based on weaker hadith and some tafsir of Qur'an (excellent article). I will not say it is "safer" not to believe that - I will just say it is valid both ways.

    Nobody should be "fearful" for believing Khidr is alive or not alive that Allah will punish them on the Day of Judgement.

    Wassalam.


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