Opinions of Sunni Ulama about Shias
Salam alaykum
I was asked by a friend of mine about the opinions of non-Salafi, Sunni scholars with respect to the Shias and their scholars, from the beginning of the Islamic period up to today. I would like to know if the members could tell me what has been the position of Sunni scholars in this respect.
I do not want another argumentative thread in here. Just if the opinions of the scholars are posted, that would be good enough, Insha Allah.
I will tell you the truth about the matter. It is easy to quote "Shaykh X" saying X about "Group Z" but in the reality of the matter Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama`ah judged everything by beliefs. There are 4 types of beliefs:
(1) Beliefs according to the Sunnah of which there is no disagreement about in Islam.
(2) Beliefs which are disagreed upon yet both are considered valid interpretations of the beliefs according to the Sunnah.
(3) Beliefs which are innovated (bid`ah) and take one out of the fold of the people of the Sunnah yet do not take one out of the fold of Islam.
(4) Beliefs which take one out of the fold of Islam.
An example of (1) is that Paradise exists, the Day of Judgement will come, and Angels exist.
An example of (2) is that the mind can know by itself without the aid of revelation that some of the more major sins are unlawful such as drinking alcohol or murder.
An example of (3) is the belief that Sayyidina Abu Bakr's Caliphate was not valid or the belief that there are 12 infallible Imams.
An example of (4) is the belief that the Imams are better than the Prophets, or that Allah is like his creation or denying any type of (1) belief.
Thus if a Shi`a has type (4) beliefs then they will exist Islam yet if they have type (1), (2), and (3) beliefs they will not.
There is also disagreement on what exactly entails (3) and what entails (4). Some scholars for example counted rejecting the Caliphate of Abu Bakr as (4) for instance.
Thus we turn to the ijm`a (agreement of the scholars) as the Prophetsaid "my Ummah will never agree upon an error" and thus we have the agreement on the scholars as to which beliefs are agreed upon to be (4) or make one a non-Muslim and make one leave Islam:
According to Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi (the person given the most credit for
summarizing the various views in the Maliki school and also outside of
the Maliki school), the acts are:
a) Negating that Allah has Lordship over His creation.
b) Negating that Allah is one in His Entity, attributes, and actions.
c) Worshiping another entity along with Allah (shirk).
d) Changing one's religion to other than Islam after having learned
about Islam and understanding it. (Allah has said that "Whoever
seeks other than Islam as a din, it will not be accepted from him").
e) Claiming that Allah can become manifest in His creation (e.g.,
take the form of a man).
f) Believing in reincarnation.
g) Negating any one of His known attributes (e.g., the 41 attributes
mentioned in Song 2 of the Guiding Helper). Included in this
is claiming that the Universe was created by other than Him or
that He was born from something else. Included in this also
is claiming that the Universe had no beginning in time.
h) Claiming that one has sat alongside with Allah literally speaking
or claiming that one has ascended to visit Him literally speaking.
i) Claiming that a person after the time of Prophet Muhammad ibn
`Abdullah is a real prophet from Allah (and that Prophet Muhammad
is not the last prophet). Included in this is claiming that one has
received revelation from Allah (like a prophet)
k) Stating that it is possible that the prophets lied to us (or did not
have the other qualities mentioned in Song 2 of the Guiding Helper).
l) Claiming that the message of Islam is only for Arabs (or only for
another select group).
m) Claiming that one will enter Paradise (literally) while still in this world.
n) Claiming that the punishment and reward in the next life is *only*
confined to being metaphorical.
o) Calling all of the Companions of the Prophet (all together) disbelievers.
p) Denying any of the necessarily known and obvious parts of the din
(e.g., claiming that formal prayer, fasting in Ramadan, Zakat, and Hajj is
not obligatory; or that the nineteen beliefs mentioned in Song 3 of the
Guiding Helper are incorrect (but differences in detail are allowed))
q) Claiming that there is no need to worship Allah externally any more
after becoming spiritually advanced. For example, claiming that
the formal prayer is no longer wajib after one has reached some
high spiritual station with Allah.
r) Denying any part of the Qur'an left by the Prophet (May Allah bless
him and give him peace).
s) Intentionally adding to (inserting one's own words into) or changing
any part of the Qur'an left by the Prophet (May Allah bless him
and give him peace) [Included in this is fabricating *obligatory*
tenets of belief or *obligatory* acts of worship which have no
basis in the primary texts].
t) Claiming that others besides Allah could produce the Qur'an.
u) Claiming that the later scholars (e.g., Imam Malik, Imam al-Shafi`i)
were better than the prophets.
[QF: page 323: line(s) 7-18: {book 17, chapter 10: clarification}]
The way the scholars have reached these above list of 21 acts that
make one "misguided" is by extensively studying the Qur'an (and Allah's
statements about guidance and misguidance in it) and also the actual
interpretation of the Qur'an by the Prophet and the early Muslims.
Other acts not listed above do not have total support among the authentic
scholars of our din as acts that make one become misguided and exit
the sphere of Islam.
As a final note, the true scholar is very careful before calling people misguided
or labeling them as kafirs as the Prophet (May Allah bless him and give him
peace) has said:
When a man says to his brother [in din], O Disbeliever. This [word] comes
back/over to [at least] one of them. If the mentioned person is as claimed,
then it goes to him, else it comes back to the person who uttered the words.
[{Muslim, iman, bayan hal al-iman man qala li akhihi ya kafir, hadith #92}]
[1] Thus we see if the Shi`a believes type (3) beliefs such as the rejection of the first three Caliphs, the takfir of most (but not all) Sahaba, the belief of the infallibility of Imams, etc. then we see that they are Ahlul Bid`ah - thus Muslims but innovators.
[2] If the Shi`a believes type (4) beliefs such as the Imams being better than the Prophets, the Prophet not delivering the entire message, the Qur'an being incomplete, that Sayyidina `Ali is Allah, that the Shari`ah is only hidden in it's meaning and does not apply to the outward (denial of the 5 pillars or saying they are "symbolic" etc. then they are Ahlul Kufr or Kuffar thus they have left Islam at this point if they believe even one type (4) belief.
Wassalam.
Salam Alaykum
From the (4) type mentioned by brother OmarHH, I am sure that a good portion of Shia scholars do hold their Infallible Imaams to be better than all the Prophets save for Prophet Muhammad (SAW)... (This is because such scholars consider the post of Imaamah to be higher than the post of Prophethood. Also, Muhammad (SAW) is not only a Prophet but also an Imaam).
Having said that, there are Shia scholars who take the Imaams as being less than Prophets. However, all Shia scholars say that this is an acceptable difference in Ijtihaad based on the expert opinion of the given Shia Ayatullah in question.
So is this still an issue with the (4) type of problem mentioned, or not? (The same can be applied to the Quran and Shias, but I have to see about this one first).
Again we judge by single belief and individual. If any human being believes a type (4) belief (no matter what he calls himself) he is a kaffir.
So we talk about single people. Those Shi`a who do not believe type (4) beliefs such as most if not all Zaydis, most if not all Bohara, and a great number of Ithna `Asharis are our Muslim brothers. Those Shi`a who believe type (4) beliefs such as most if not all Batinis, most if not all Nusayris, and most if not all Druze and a great number of Ithna `Asharis - have exited the pale of Islam.
Am I making sense to you brother Jello?
By the way are you Salafi? Or are you just a Sunni without a madhab (I have no problem with being without a madhab by the way).
Last edited by Omar HH; 06-03-2006 at 01:54 PM.
Salam Alaykum
There are a huge number of things which I personally think would put (knowledgeable or religious) Shias close to being out of Islam according to the conditions set by the Sunnis (I have to say this, it is unfortunate but true).
For example, what about the Shia belief in qadar, which is very close to and leaning to the positions of the Mutazilis and Qadariyya sects, who could never accept that evil came from Allah ??? (If I am mistaken about the Sunni position, please do correct me).
The Mutazila creed itself was a bid`i creed and not a kufriya creed. So if they believe those beliefs they would be type (3) my friend.
Wassalam.
BTW - insha Allah I will buy your book lol
okay one question for u Sidi Omar just to clarify, from what I understood it is a fundemental belief of the shia's that Imamah is higher then Prophethood save the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). One has to accept this in order for his aqeedah to be correct in Shia Islam.
So if the majority of shia's believe this, it is open kufr which removes them from the fold of Islam?
Just on a side there were a minority of Ulema who hold that Ali (RA) holds the same rank as the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) as reported by Shaykh Saduk
( منزلة علي ( عليه السلام ) كمنزلة النبي ( صلى الله عليه وآله )
حدّثنا أبي رضى الله عنه، قال: حدّثنا عبد الله بن الحسين المؤدّب، عن أحمد بن عليّ الأصفهاني، عن محمّد بن أسلم الطوسي، قال: حدّثنا أبو رجاء عن حمّاد بن زيد، عن عبد الرحمن السرّاج عن نافع، عن ابن عمر قال: سألنا النبي صلّى الله عليه وآله عن علي بن أبي طالب عليه السلام؟ فغضب صلّى الله عليه وآله ثمّ قال:
ما بال أقوام يذكرون مَن منزلته مِن الله كمنزلتي? ألا ومن أحبّ عليّاً فقد أحبّني، ومن أحبّني فقد رضي الله عنه، ومن رضي الله عنه كافأه الجنّة.
ألا ومن أحبّ عليّاً لا يخرج من الدنيا حتّى يشرب من الكوثر، ويأكل من طوبى، ويرى مكانه في الجنّة.
This was also the view of the teacher of Khomeini's, Shah Abadi.
To say any non-Prophet is higher than any Prophet is kufr by ijm`a with no disagreement or no leeway.okay one question for u Sidi Omar just to clarify, from what I understood it is a fundemental belief of the shia's that Imamah is higher then Prophethood save the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). One has to accept this in order for his aqeedah to be correct in Shia Islam.
For example to say that Sayyidina Abu Bakr is higher than Sayyidina Adam is kufr,
To say that Sayyidina Ja`far al-Sadiq is higher than Sayyidina Salih is kufr,
To say that Sayyidina Imam Malik is higher than Sayyidina `Isa is kufr,
To say that Sayyidina `Ali is higher than Sayyidina Musa is kufr,
To say that Shaykh al-Bouti is higher than Sayyidina Sayyidna Nuh is kufr.
Saying any non-Prophet is better than any Prophet is clear kufr. This is by ijm`a without disagreement as recorded by Imam Ibn Juzayy al-Kalbi al-Granati in al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah.
Wassalam.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks