Sunni Shia Unity

[coloreal]

Salam Alaykum



We see the Sunnis are taking some steps to come together with the Shias. For example, the issue of the Jafari Ithna Ashari fiqh as being acceptable. We as Sunnis do not see a contardiction between a Muslim and a believer, thus the term Muslim is all-encompassing, even if the person is commiting Bidah.

Salamelaikum

bro, are you sure Ahlul-Sunnah has accepted Fiqah-e-Jafari as fifth shool of thought ?

i would like to see fatwa of Scholars
only few scholars of Al-Azhar issued fatwa in 1950s accepting Jafari as Fifth school but that was not given importance ( by Salafi brothers and their ulema).

On the Day of Judgement, only Mu'mins go to Paradise, and non-Mu'min Muslims are to remain in Hellfire eternally, just as Hindus, Jews, and Christians.

tell me which shia scholar issued this fatwa (quoted by you in BOLD) ???
thats just ur misconception bro ... no truth in it.

The question should actually be: What have the Hawzas in Qom and Najaf done to change their age-old opinions about the Shia being the only ones worthy of Paradise, while Sunni Muslims are to burn eternally in Hellfire?

no shia scholar has issued the fatwa that sunnis will burn in hell
NaoZobillah. !

Have your scholars allowed you to switch to fiqh Jafari school ?
leave switching
have your scholars even allowed you to offer prayers with shia in jamat ?
all my sunni friends hesitate to pray with me in shia mosque ... what do they all hesitate if u have said "We see the Sunnis are taking some steps to come together with the Shias."

but yes my scholars have allowed this (i can show you fatwas too) ... and i feel no hesitation in praying with sunnis because i beleive you all are just muslims like me with "few" differences.

------------------------------------

most of the things u said in your post is just what you hear from people...

w/s

[Omar HH]

have your scholars even allowed you to offer prayers with shia in jamat ?

ACtually, generally yes.

I pray behind a Shi`a sometimes.

wassalam.

[coloreal]

I pray behind a Shi`a sometimes.

in Jamat ??

if yes ... then MashaAllah you are the only one I know is doing this.

ws

[coloreal]

brother Omar HH , according to Sunnipath.com

http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/q...A00002137.aspx

at one place it says its "Makruh" to pray behind Shia.

and at the end it says :

"Therefore, Salat behind a Shi’a should not be performed. If one did so, it must be repeated, as it may not be valid. "

sunnipath.com is operated by orthodox sunnis and not salafis ... am i right ??



and my scholars says "its perfectly valid to pray behind ahlul Sunnah bros" !


w/s

[Omar HH]

yeah it's disliked but allowed in general with some exceptions.

[Abu Abdallah]

Sorry I will not be able to respond to all of these posts. I will be away from my computer for a few weeks. One point though...despite some modernist and salafi influences from certain quarters, al-Azhar remains the center of traditional Sunni learning in the world.

In Peace & Unity,
Abu Abdallah

[jello]

Salam Alaykum

I would like to challenge coloreal or any Shia to provide me with just one Shia Marja from any time who considers that the belief in Imamah is not essential to the faith, and that it is not a pre-condition for entrance to Paradise.

If we open any Shia book of Aqeedah or any Shia site explaining their beliefs, anyone can see that 1. Imamah is a basis for Islam and 2. Not beieving in Imamah will land the person in deep trouble on the Day of Judgement.

Parayers and the like are secondary.

[if0rg0t]

Salam Alaykum

I would like to challenge coloreal or any Shia to provide me with just one Shia Marja from any time who considers that the belief in Imamah is not essential to the faith, and that it is not a pre-condition for entrance to Paradise.

If we open any Shia book of Aqeedah or any Shia site explaining their beliefs, anyone can see that 1. Imamah is a basis for Islam and 2. Not beieving in Imamah will land the person in deep trouble on the Day of Judgement.

Parayers and the like are secondary.

Actually, you are quite right. Just like we have the famous 7 articles of faith:
1) Tawheed
2) Angels
3) Books
4) Messengers
5) Day of Judgement
6) Predestination
7) Resurrection

The Shia have an additional article of faith, Imamate. Now, if anyone were to come up to us and recite the proclamation of faith, but says he does not believe in any one of the above 7 articles, his faith would be rejected and would be a kaafir. If he died in that state, hell would be the only abode fit for him (many people nowadays like to quote the Hadith saying that anyone who said 'La ilaha illa Allah' will go to Jannat ... the reality is that it is implied that the person must hold belief in everything that Allah and His Prophet told us).

In the same way, Imamate is an article of faith for the Shia. If someone denies it, they are not a 'muslim' from their point of view. Keep in mind, their view of Imamate cannot be compared to the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamma' view of the Khulafa e Rashideen ... that Hadhrat Abu Bakr was the most worthy successor followed by Umar followed by Uthman followed by Ali (May Allah be pleased with them all!). If someone rejects this, then he is an innovator, but still a muslim. It is not a tenet of faith. However, for the Shia, accepting Imamate is a tenet of faith and there is no room to leave it, except for a person to be a kaafir (just like if a person were to reject the existence of Angels).

In short, from the Shia point of view, if someone doesn't accept Imamate then he is a kaafir. The next time a Shia comes up to you and starts going on about how they are okay with Sunnis and that we're all brothers nonsense .. Give it to them straight up and tell them that they are lying about their own faith. Ask 'em if they believe that Imamate is a tenet of faith. Unless they're practicing taqiyya (kitman), they'll say yes. Flat out deny that you believe in it ... and ask if they now consider you a muslim .


Here's a "dua" that they have (from http://www.ansar.org/english/idols.htm - they have the scanned version and some notes up there):


"O' Allah, sal ala Muhamed wa ala aal Muhamed and curse the two idols of Quraysh (Abu Bakr and Omar), its (Quraysh's) two sorcerers, its two tyrants, its two liars, and their two daughters (Aysha and Hafsah) who (Abu Bakr and Omar) disagreed with your order, denied your revelation, rejected your goodness, disobeyed your messenger, altered your religion, tampered (harafa) with your Book (Al-Quran), loved your enemy, rejected your lovers, suspended your verdicts, invalidated your orders, did not believe in your proves, antagonized your lovers, patronized your foes, ruined your country, and corrupted your slaves, O' Allah curse them both, their followers, their lovers, their people, their adherents, their partisans, their disciples ............."

These couple of examples (amongst the multitudes!) are enough to rid this notion of Shia-Sunni unity.

[coloreal]

no point in accepting challenge because Imamate is one of our faith.

but no scholar says that beleiving in imamate guarantees you a paradise or not beleiving in it makes you a "Kafir".
all those (expect Kharjitees/Nuseris) who says "Lailaha illalah Muhammadur Rasulalah" are considered muslims by us


it doesnt make sense what bro if0rg0t said ... if you ppl think shia scholars consiser sunnis as "kafir" then why they have allowed praying in congretion with sunnis ?
infact the opposite is true.

Extremists are on both sides but almost none of our scholar says any sect of Ahlulsunnah as kafir.
i hope my sunni bro will agree here

May Allah Almighty help and guide me.
ws

[jello]

Salam Alaykum

As I mentioned before, Shia Ulamas will normally not call us Sunnis "kaffir" outright.

Notwithstanding, since Imamah is a tenet of Shia faith, not beliving in it makes you a "Non-Mu'min" according to Shia ideology.

I have the direct quote from Shaykh Saduq and Shaykh Mufid about those who do not accept Ali's Imamah. However, perhaps it would be better for us to wait for the Shia member to tell us the difference between "Mu'min" and a "Muslim" according to his scholars.