interesting discussion on abdullah ibn saba - founder of shiaism here at
I accept the existence and role of Abdullah ibn Saba, and in fact I consider him to have been a dajjal (perhaps in a minor sense)
But calling him the founder of shiaism is not accurate and borders on dishonest. Was the the founder of Zaydi shiaism? Was he the founder of any number of moderate Alid groups who simply followed the first 11 Shia Imams, Imams who most Sunnis agree were actually ahl ul-Sunnah?
People need to be more precise about their words when discussing these topics, and Allah knows best. There is no unified monolithic "shiaism" - there are groups and currents from among the early Shia community whose thought and ideology were manipulated by Abdullah ibn saba, these mostly evolved into the ghullat sects that have plagued the Ummah. It is highly possible and likely he had a lingering influence on 1ver Ithnan ul-Ashir Shiaism (e.g. the "jafaris") however calling the man the founder of Shiaism is simply not true on the face.
Rhetorical slips and a tendency not to be exact in our words is something that the enemies of the Ahl ul-sunnah do take advantage of, and it is something that contributes to greater fitnah.
We should be careful.
Many Claim that Abdullah bin Saba is only mentioned in the History of Tabari and that other historians took the narrations from him...well No, you see Tabari wrote his history 300 years after Hijrah However Al thakafi who wrote the book "Al Gharat" also mentions Abdullah ibn Saba, and this guy wrote his history around 250 years after hijrah and he died in 283 hijri, this is also in his history:
(دخل عمرو بن الحمد وحجر بن عدي وحبة العوفي والحارث الاعور وعبد الله بن سبأ على أمير المؤمنين………..)[الغارات ص302]
"Amro bin al hamd, Hajar bin Uday, Habbah al Awfy, Al harith al A'awar and ABDULLAh IBN SABA all entered on the Ameer al Mumineen..." (Al gharat 302).
Al Nawbakhty was alive before or During Tabari's life and he writes:
a Sabaism are the first to calims of Ali's Imamah, and they said it's from Allah. they are the companions of Abdullah Ibn Saba which was the first to rejects Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Sahaba. and Ibn Saba calimed that he had been ordered that from Ali. Then, Ali asked him about it and he confessed. then Ali ordered the execution of Ibn Saba.
(Feraq Al-Shia page 19-20)
Also Al Kashshi, al tusi, Al Helli, al Qummi, Al Khawansary, Al namaqany, Al Mirza, al testeri All write narrations about Ibn Saba and that he was the first to show enmity & hate towards the first three caliphs, here's a sample:
from "Man la yahduruhu al-Faqih" one of the main four Shiite books written by Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn 'Ali ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, commonly known as Ibn Babawaih or Al-Shaykh al-Saduq who died in 381 hijri:
"and Ali said: when somone ends his pray, he have to rise his hand, and then Abdullah Ibn Saba said, for what ? isn't Allah in every where..."
Al nashi'i al akbar الناشيء الأكبر who died in 293 hijri also writes in Masa'el al imamah Page 22-23 :
عن ابن سبأ وطائفته ما يلي :" وفرقة زعموا أن عليا - رضي الله عنه - حي لم يمت وأنه لا يموت حتى يسوق العرب بعصاه ، وهؤلاء هم السبئية أصحاب عبد الله بن سبأ ، وكان عبد الله بن سبأ رجلا من أهل صنعاء يهوديا ، وسكن المدائن ...."
About ibn Saba and his followers: " A group claimed that Ali RAA is alive and will not die until he drives the Arabs away with his stick, those are the Saba'ite followers of Abdullah Ibn Saba. This Man was from sana'a (yemen) and was a Jew who lived in Mada'en.
Al Qummi who died in 301 hijri said that Abdullah Ibn Saba was the first to show hatred and enmity for the first three Caliphs and he disassociated himself from them and claimed that ali ordered it (Al Qummi, al Maqalat wal Firaq P20).
Al Tusi (460Hijri) said that Ibn Saba returned to kufr and showed ghulu (Tahtheeb al ahkam 2/322)
Al helli who died in 740 Hijri and wrote the first shiite books about the science of Rijal/Hadith, he said that Ibn Saba is Weak so you can't narrate from him, As for the Shiite Zaidi scholar Ibn al mutaraddi (died 840 hijri) he said that ibn Saba was the first to announce the News of Imamah/Wilayah of Ali to the people.
As for Majlisi and his Biharu'l Anwar here are some locationes where he mentions Abdullah Ibn Saba:
25/286 (three narrations)
here's a link to Al Majlisi's book bihar al Anwar if we wanna verify, let's take the first one (2/217):
كش : سعد ، عن محمد بن خالد الطيالسي ، عن ابن أبي نجران ، عن ابن
سنان قال : قال أبوعبدالله عليه السلام : إنا أهل بيت صادقون لانخلو من كذاب يكذب علينا
ويسقط صدقنا بكذبه علينا عند الناس ، كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله أصدق البرية لهجة وكان
مسيلمة يكذب عليه ، وكان أميرالمؤمنين عليه السلام أصدق من برأالله من بعد رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله
وكان الذي يكذب عليه ويعمل في تكذيب صدقه بما يفتري عليه من الكذب عبدالله
ابن سبا لعنه الله
Translation: Kish: Sa'ed from muhammad bin Khaled al tayalisi from ibn Abu Najran from Ibn Sinan: Imam Abu abdullah Said: we ahlulBayt are truthful but there are liars who attribute false sayings to us to misguide the people (So True hehe) , the prophet PBUH was truthful but Musaylama the liar attributed lies to him, Ameer Ali RAA was most truthful person after the prophet PBUH but he who attributed Lies to him was the cursed Abdullah Ibn Saba*
Note by the Author of the book regarding "Abdullah Ibbn Saba" on same page(217):
( هامش ص 217 ) ( 1 ) روى الكشى في ص 70 روايات كثيرة تدل على ذمه ولعنه . وكل من ترجمه من الشيعة لعنوه
وأبرؤوا من مقالته الباطلة في أميرالمؤمنين عليه السلام ، وهذا هو الذى استتابه أميرالمؤمنين عليه السلام
ثلاثة أيام فلم يتب فأحرقه بالنار .
Translation of note: "Al Kashshi in page 70 narrates plenty of hadiths about cursing Ibn Saba, and all those Shiite scholars who put his name in thier books of Hadith had cursed him as well because of his false sayings about the Ameer of believers Ali RAA, this is the man whom Ali RAA had asked to repent for three days but he didn't so Ali burned Him with fire."
As for the guy called "dbzClips", well Mr,Dragon Ball do you see "Syf ibn Umr" in your chain of Narrators above? hehe you don't thus We can easily prove ibn Saba exists from your own books as you just saw.
On the same Page I saw another interesting Hadith i'll translate it so you can have a laugh at those funny shiite scholars:
ل : الطالقاني ، عن الجلودي ، عن محمدبن زكريا ، عن جعفر بن محمد بن
عمارة قال : سمعت جعفر بن محمد عليهما السلام يقول : ثلاثة كانوا يكذبون على رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله
أبوهريرة ، وأنس بن مالك ، وامرأة .
بيان : يعني عائشة .
Translation: " Al taliqani from al Jouloudi from muhammad bin Zakariah from Jaa'afar bin muhammad bin Ammar: i heard Ja'afar al Sadiq PBUH say: Three used to attribute lies to the prophet PBUH, Abu Hurairah, Anas Bin Malik, and a Woman.
note on bottom of Page: He Means Aisha." (bihar al anwar 2/217).
Funny thing is the Shiites used to narrate sayings about imamah from Abu huraira RAA but when they saw that he narrated 36,000 Hadiths for the Mainstream muslims they stopped attributing lies to him and started calling him a Liar hehe.
Some Twelver Shiite sources proving the existence of ibn Saba:
و من المصادر الشيعية التي تؤكد شخصية بن سبأ:
1 - رسالة الإرجاء للحسن بن محمد بن الحنفية وقد رواها عن الثقات من الرجال عند الشيعة 0 وهذه الرسالة مخطوطة في دار الكتب الظاهرية في آخر كتاب الإيمان لمحمد بن يحيى العدني ( مجموع 104 ) 0 وانظر تاريخ التراث العربي ( 1 / 210 ) 0
2 - كتاب الغارات للثقفي الأصفهاني وهو ومطبوع انجمن آثار ملي إيران 0
3 - كتاب المقالات والفرق للأشعري القمي وهو مطبوع في إيران سنة 1963 م 0
4 - فرق الشيعة للنوبختي عن القرن الثالث الهجري 0 ط / كاظم الكتبي في النجف عدة طبعات 0 وطبعة المستشرق ريتر في استانبول عام 1931 م 0
5 - رجال الكشي للكشي 0 ط / مؤسسة الأعلمي للمطبوعات كربلاء 0
6 - رجال الطوسي لأبي جعفر الطوسي 0 ط / النجف 1381 هـ / نشر محمد كاظم الكتبي 0
7 - شرح ابن أبي الحديد لنهج البلاغة 0 ط / الأولى الميمنية 1326 هـ 0
8 - الرجال للحلي 0 ط / طهران 1311 هـ / وطبعة النجف 1961 م 0
9 - روضات الجنان للخوانساري ط 0 / إيران 1307
10 - تنقيح المقال في أحوال الرجال للمامقاني 0 ط / النجف في المطبعة المرتضوية 0
11 - قاموس الرجال للتستري 0 منشورات مركز نشر الكتاب طهران 1382 هـ0
12 - ( روضة الصفا ) تاريخ عند الشيعة معتمد بالفارسية ج 2 / ص 292 طبعة إيران
13 - دائرة المعارف المسماة بـــ ( مقتبس الأثر ومجدد مادثر ) للأعلمي الحائري 0 ط / 1388 هـ بالمطبعة العلمية / قم 0
14 - الكنى والألقاب للقمي 0 ط / العرفان بصيدا 0
15 - حل الإشكال لابن طاووس .
16 - الرجال لابن داود .
17- التحرير الطاووس للعاملي .
18 - مجمع الرجال للقهبائي المؤلف سنة 1016 هـ
19 - نقد الرجال للتفرشي المؤلف سنة 1015 هـ
20 - جامع الرواة للأردبيلي المؤلف سنة 1100 هـ
21 – موسوعة البحار للمجلسي .
Last edited by TripolySunni; 10-02-2010 at 10:42 AM.
Assalam o 'alaykum,
Imam Shah ‘Abd al-Aziz Dahlawi (may Allah have mercy on him) has discussed the schemes of ‘Abdullah ibn Saba in great detail in his magnum opus, Tuhfah Ithna 'Ashariyyah. Son of Imam Sayyid 'Alusi has translated and abridged it into Arabic.
He writes that ‘Abdullah ibn Saba was a Jew from Yemen and he divided his activates into three different levels depending on the people he was dealing with; hence three different groups emerged through his efforts.
1. At first he claimed the love for Ahl al-Bay't and this was his ploy to gain the sympathies of Muslims. Once he was successful in this he started to claim that Sayyiduna 'Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) was the most superior after the Holy Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). At this point he had attracted a good number of followers. He also forged many narrations in the virtues of Sayyiduna 'Ali.
Now this is what present day Zaydis hold to. So it is perfectly fine to say that ‘Abdullah ibn Saba was also the founder of Zaydi Shias. These are also known as Tafdilis.
2. Once he was successful in this, he chose a certain number of his followers, those close to him, and started to brainwash them that Sayyiduna 'Ali was the first Caliph appointed by the Holy Prophet. He told them that it was the Companions (Sahabah) who after the demise of Holy Prophet went against his instructions and usurped the right of Sayyiduna 'Ali. He was the first one to misinterpret the incident that happened overFadak and used that as a proof to spread hatred of the Companions. He also made sure to tell his followers that never to ascribe these teachings to him if asked; disassociate from him in public because his purpose is to inform the truth and not fame or power.
Present day Ithna ‘Ashariyyah (Twelvers) belong to this second group. They are also known as Sabbiyah or Tabarriyah.
3. After this ploy was also successful, he went a step further and selected a certain number of his very close associates and told that that I am about to tell a very sensitive secret. He made them promise that this information will be kept secret. He started off by telling karamat of Sayyiduna 'Ali and through this he convinced them of Uluhiyyat of Sayyiduna 'Ali; that Sayyiduna 'Ali is in fact God but has come in the form of a human.
I believe present day 'Alawis fall under this category. These are known as Ghullat.
Shah 'Abd al-Aziz concludes that 'Abdullah ibn Saba is indeed the founder of above mentioned three groups of Shias. Every single Shia group will fall under one of the above three categories.
As far as the Shia Awla, those were actually Ahl al-Sunnah. They were known as Shia Awla because they sided with Sayyiduna 'Ali during the differences that arose among various Companions due to the schemes of 'Abdullah ibn Saba. They had all the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah like affirming the superiority of Shaykhayn (may Allah be pleased with them) over Sayyiduna Ali. So it obvious that when it is said, ‘Abdullah ibn Saba is the founder of Shiaism', Shiah Awla are not being referred to. In our time, Shia Awla are referred to as Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jamah and this title is not used anymore for any given group.
although abdullah ibn saba is a shaytaan he must of been very intelligent. how did he single handly devise a whole new religion and back it up with quran,hadith albeit fabricated and misinterpreted. how was this even allowed to happen.
There were obviously other idiots like him and then the great fitnahs that took place obviously only made it worse and helped these fools get influence and spread. Then obviously, now that this Saba'i sect was founded, other people came along later on who helped there corrupted idiology spread, right up until today with the shi'te iran and all these idiotic rafidi preachers whose job is to do just what their preprocessors did - curse the Sahabah and spread turmoil among the Muslims.
I saw many rafida’s saying: Abdullah ibn saba is actually the character built up by ahle-sunnah to support the false claims against rafidi shia’s!
But lets see what shia books & there ulema’s said about this man i.e. abdullah ibn saba?
Here are some sahih traditions in shia books & opinion of the ulema regarding the jew abdullah ibn saba:
These are the three Saheeh (with 7 different sahih isnaads) hadeeth regarding Ibn Saba:
حدثني محمد بن قولويه، قال حدثني سعد بن عبد الله، قال حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد و محمد بن عيسى، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، قال : سمعت أبا عبد الله (عليه السلام) يقول و هو يحدث أصحابه بحديث عبد الله بن سبإ و ما ادعى من الربوبية في أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب، فقال إنه لما ادعى ذلك فيه استتابه أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) فأبى أن يتوب فأحرقه بالنار.
Hishaam bin Salim, who said that he heard it from Imam Aboo `Abd Allaah (AS) when he told that `Abd Allaah bin Saba called (to people) the divinity of Imaam `Alee (AS). Upon that ‘Alee ordered him to repent, but he refused. Then Ali let him burn in fire.”
Source: Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 108, hadeeth # 171
حدثني محمد بن قولويه قال حدثني سعد بن عبد الله قال حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد و محمد بن عيسى عن علي بن مهزيار عن فضالة بن أيوب الأزدي عن أبان بن عثمان قال سمعت أبا عبد الله (ع) يقول لعن الله عبد الله بن سبإ إنه ادعى الربوبية في أمير المؤمنين (ع) و كان و الله أمير المؤمنين (ع) عبدا لله طائعا الويل لمن كذب علينا و إن قوما يقولون فينا ما لا نقوله في أنفسنا نبرأ إلى الله منهم نبرأ إلى الله منهم.
I heard Aboo ‘Abd Allaah(as) saying: ‘May Allah curse Abdallah bin Saba’, he claimed a divineship for Amirul-Mu’mineen (Ali) [as]. By Allah, Amierul-Mu’mineen [as] was volunterily the slave of Allah. Woe to him who lie about us, for there are people who say about us what we don’t say about ourselves, we clear ourselves to Allah from them, we clear ourselves to Allah from them’.”
Source: Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 108, hadeeth # 172
و بهذا الإسناد عن يعقوب بن يزيد عن ابن أبي عمير. و أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن أبيه و الحسين بن سعيد عن ابن أبي عمير عن هشام بن سالم عن أبي حمزة الثمالي قال قال علي بن الحسين (ع) لعن الله من كذب علينا إني ذكرت عبد الله بن سبإ فقامت كل شعرة في جسدي لقد ادعى أمرا عظيما ما له لعنه الله كان علي (ع) و الله عبدا لله صالحا أخو رسول الله (ص) ما نال الكرامة من الله إلا بطاعته لله و لرسوله و ما نال رسول الله (ص) الكرامة من الله إلا بطاعته.
‘May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah cursed him. Ali was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the brother of the Messenger of Allah . He did not earn the graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah did not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah’.”
Source: Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 108-109, hadeeth # 173
Now, lets see what al-kashee understood by these sahih hadiths, here is the opinion of shia alim al-kashee regarding ibn saba:
ذكر بعض أهل العلم أن عبد الله بن سبإ كان يهوديا فأسلم و والى عليا (ع) و كان يقول و هو على يهوديته في يوشع بن نون وصي موسى بالغلو فقال في إسلامه بعد وفاة رسول الله (ص) في علي (ع) مثل ذلك و كان أول من شهر بالقول بفرض إمامة علي و أظهر البراءة من أعدائه و كاشف مخالفيه و أكفرهم فمن هاهنا قال من خالف الشيعة أصل التشيع و الرفض مأخوذ من اليهودية.
Some people of knowledge mentioned that Abdullah bin Saba’ was a Jew, who embraced Islam and supported Ali. While he was still a Jew, he used to go to extremism in calling Yousha’ bin Noon as the appointee (successor) of Moses, thus after embracing Islam – after the demise of the Messenger of Allah [pbuh&hf] – he said the like about Ali. It was him who first publicly announced the mandatory Iamamah for Ali, rejected and disowned his enemies, debated his opponents and called them Kafirs. Hence, those who oppose the Shi’ites often say: The Shi’ites and Rejectors (Rafidah) have their roots in Judaism “.
Source: Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 109
So now abdullah ibn saba is no-more a unknown person accused by rafida’s.
do u mean abdullah ibnai sabah or abaidullah ibne sabah??
abidullah-ine-sabah claimed that he was the Promised Al-Mahdi. He is said to be the starter of all fitnas today and he is the 1st person who claimed that Hazrat Ali(R.Z) are Allah (naozbillah) Maula ali
hasan bin sabah name comes after abaidullah in the list of people who announced themself as Al-Mahdi and acording to historians there are 40 people who claimed this title so far dunno how many are going to appear after 2012 and the last person was Mirza Tahir ahmed Qadiani
Its often a tactic among deceivers to muddle the clear waters by creating doubts.Even if you materialize addullah bin saba among them they would say that they wouldnt know him.Its called taqiya.
Is there any link or connection between Abdullah ibn Ubay ibn Salul ( عبد الله بن أبي بن سلول ) and this Abdullah ibn Saba ?