coptic christians

**Ali Bhai** · 07-06-2006, 02:14 AM

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**tamiki** · 07-06-2006, 03:05 AM

i have heard that there are christians in the middle east who deny Allah's final book, but since it is the height of Arabic language they use it as a grammar textbook to study!

maybe these are some of them.

**jaylen** · 07-06-2006, 12:52 PM

I'm Egyptian myself and honestly the only thing I know about coptics is that the it was the main religion of Egypt prior to islam. It was the religion that was introduced by Constantine (I think) in the 4th century until the muslims conquered Egypt and the people converted to islam. Coptics are extremely strict and they do not consider themselves "christians" per se. They feel that they have the true christian religion (like all other christians) and they believe that Egypt one day will go back to being "Coptic Egypt". I have encountered other christian arabs and it seems that the COptics have their own way of doing things. They believe in "confession", the trinity, etc. so they are basically the same as other christians but they feel that they have the ideal sect of the religion. They are very complicated people and very orthodox. I'll try to find out more but the only other thing I know is that they DO NOT ALLOW people to convert to Islam..to them any coptic that does this is punished by death. They are very strict..beyond strict.

I don't know what their deal is but I just realized that they had their own language and stuff prior to the Romans entering Egypt-sometime in 4th century. I don't they are weird that's all I know. I'm trying to look up the differences and there doesn't seem to be any that I could find. You also have to remeber they are holding to a culture that belongs to them as well as their religion. So it's almost like jews. It's a religion and a culture as well as a nationality. So the mentality is similar. Because they did have their own language(s).

**Pr1nce** · 07-06-2006, 02:58 PM

Coptic Church: the native Chrisitian church in Egypt, traditionally founded by St Mark and adherence to the Monophysite doctrine rejected by the Council of Chalcedon

Whatever that means...

**Karim_sunni** · 07-06-2006, 04:13 PM

I remember that there is a hadeeth of the prophet, in which he muslims tells to be nice to the copts, since we muslims have a special relation with them , cause of Mariyah the copt, who gave Muhammad saw his child Ibraheem.

The prophet said:"When you conquer Egypt, be kind to the Copts for they are your proteges and kith and kin"

**rahma** · 07-06-2006, 07:26 PM

Following the alleged crucifiction of Isa (as), his followers spread out across the Roman world, preaching their message. As they taught more people, and came into contact with other religious beliefs, the message became distorted. Those who found themselves in leadership positions (bishopes) around the 4th century decided that they needed to meet as a whole and determine what christian orthodoxy was. At each of these gatherings, called ecumenical councils, a major point of religous doctrine was determined, certain groups were deamed heretical and cast out of the The Church.

The Copts, a christian group allegedly founded by Isa's disciple Mark, developed not quite in line with what would become mainstream christianity (aka the Roman and Eastern Orthodox churches). When the fourth ecumenical council roled around in 451, they were deemed the heretical group and were cast out of The Church. The topic at hand was the nature of Isa (as). Copts were deemed monophycists, ie people who believe Isa (as) was one nature, where as the prevailing, now Orthodox view is that Isa (as) had two natures, one human and one divine.

Eastern Orthodox and Catholics (protestants, who came out of the reformation in the 15th century, don't concern themselves much in these debates) still will often assert that Copts are monophycites, where as copts argue that it was all a big mistake.

Prior to this and after, they were treated rather poorly by the ruling Byzantine (Orthodox) government, and when the muslim armies captured egypt, the copts weren't too sad to see the Byzantines go.

So, ah, if that was all too confusing, in short, Copts are a sect of christianity that broke off during the formative years when The Church was codifying what they actually believed in (makes me glad to be a muslim, where God revealed everything we need to know).

As for current relations, when viewed from outside Egypt and taking from coptic sources, it appears that copts in Egypt live in an islamo-fundie hell hole where they're constantly persecuted, forced to convert to islam and have to hide inside all day. Or, viewed from some muslim/government sources inside Egypt, it's a paradise where everyone is one big happy family and they all get along fine. The reality is probably somewhere in between. Are there instances of discrimination? Yes. But, it isn't as prevelant as the diaspora wants us to believe.

**jaylen** · 07-06-2006, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by rahma

As for current relations, when viewed from outside Egypt and taking from coptic sources, it appears that copts in Egypt live in an islamo-fundie hell hole where they're constantly persecuted, forced to convert to islam and have to hide inside all day. Or, viewed from some muslim/government sources inside Egypt, it's a paradise where everyone is one big happy family and they all get along fine. The reality is probably somewhere in between. Are there instances of discrimination? Yes. But, it isn't as prevelant as the diaspora wants us to believe.

I'm Egyptian and it's not an in between situation for them. THey hold government positions, they live amongst muslims and nothing ever happens to them. It's the Muslims that are targeted by the government. All this nonsense of copts being persecuted is an absolute lie. Don't believe any of it. They never get targeted for anything at all. It's copt propoganda that is unjustified. Never has the gov't arrested a copt for religious reasons. NEVER, ever. In Egypt muslims are the ones who get arrested for religious reasons. They hang 16 yr old boys because they join teh Muslim Brotherhood party..so who is the one being persecuted? it's not the copts.

thought I'd clear that up.

**Simon Iskander** · 11-06-2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by jaylen

I'm Egyptian and it's not an in between situation for them. THey hold government positions, they live amongst muslims and nothing ever happens to them. It's the Muslims that are targeted by the government. All this nonsense of copts being persecuted is an absolute lie. Don't believe any of it. They never get targeted for anything at all. It's copt propoganda that is unjustified. Never has the gov't arrested a copt for religious reasons. NEVER, ever. In Egypt muslims are the ones who get arrested for religious reasons. They hang 16 yr old boys because they join teh Muslim Brotherhood party..so who is the one being persecuted? it's not the copts.

thought I'd clear that up.

Sister Jaylen, your post was very interesting. I am half-Egyptian, half-British (my father is Egyptian), and I converted to Islam 3 years ago

. My father's family are not Copts as most people would imagine, but they belong to the Brethren Church. I think they do sympathise a lot with the Coptic Christians though.

I cannot really comment on relations between the different religious communities in Egypt, but what I do know is that my father's family are very hostile to Islam and Muslims. I have heard them slander our Habib

. They are very staunch in their beliefs.

Have you lived in Egypt and have you had direct experience of these things? I'm just interested to know as I was born in London, UK and I have only visited Egypt three times in my life, so I would not feel it appropriate to give my opinions on these issues.

Simon

**Simon Iskander** · 11-06-2006, 03:00 PM

I would imagine that the people who are persecuting the religious (predominantly Christian) minorities in Egypt are secularists (like the government), or people who claim to understand Islam but in fact know nothing of our tradition and the way in which our Beloved Prophet

taught us to interact with people of different faiths.

I have seen a Coptic web site actually praising Muhammad Ali Pasha in particular for his tolerance towards the Christians and Jews living in Egypt during his reign.

Simon

**jaylen** · 11-06-2006, 03:08 PM

I lived in Egypt for about a year and there are no religous tensions caused by Muslims towards copts or other religions. As you might know there are still British people living in Egypt. they have their churches and clubs that they attend without any problems. The only time there seems to be a problem is when a copt converts to islam. then you have this insanity caused by the church. They spread this lie about how the copt converted to islam by death threats. This is simply NOT true in any case. So then they run to the US media for help and of course attention. Then the lie becomes a propganda tool for the copts to want their own country. They have been planning to split Egypt in 2. One for copts (the southern part) and the other for the muslims. COpts have this issue of Egypt was Coptic and it should return to being solely coptic. Whatever! but yea for some reason the christians of Egypt follow this coptic mentallity. There is a lot of hatred for muslims in egypt even from the so-called muslim gov't that runs it. There's a fear of an islamic movement there that's the reason behind it.