Salafi's Khawarij? bring your proof

**Musleemah** · 10-06-2006, 06:15 PM

I have seen in many posts accusations against us Salafis, saying that we are khawarij.

What is your proof for these accusations ?

**hiker** · 10-06-2006, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Musleemah

I have seen in many posts accusations against us Salafis, saying that we are khawarij.

What is your proof for these accusations ?

salaam

NOT all salafi are khawarij, but there are fringe salafi groups who follow the khawarij ideaology - I can name few of them...

Sheikh Baz himself call these ppl brothers of shaitan and said you should not give your salaams to them. Also Sheikh Albani said about some- there ideas are based on khawarij

Some accuse all salafi of being khawarij - this is total wrong and uncalled for!!!

**Musleemah** · 10-06-2006, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by hiker

salaam

NOT all salafi are khawarij, but there are fringe salafi groups who follow the khawarij ideaology - I can name few of them...

Sheikh Baz himself call these ppl brothers of shaitan and said you should not give your salaams to them. Also Sheikh Albani said about some- there ideas are based on khawarij

Some accuse all salafi of being khawarij - this is total wrong and uncalled for!!!

wa alaykum assalam brother

I agree with you... not all are Khawarij..

Although actually, the ones who have Khawarij beliefs would not be Salafi...
They would be "khawarij".

"Salafis" and "Khawarij" are like "white" and "black"... .
When they become "khawarij"... they are not Salafi anymore.

Thanks brother for speaking the truth and being just.

**Abu 'Abdillah al-Maliki** · 11-06-2006, 06:52 AM

Musleemah: Which group of the Salafis are you with? Just so we know what you position is. Is it:

The people on the manhaj of Rabi' al-Madkhali, Falih al-Harbi, 'Abdul-Muhsin al-'Abbad etc. [a.k.a. "madakhilah", "saudi salafis"]?

Or those on the manhaj of Safar al-Hawali, Salman al-'Awdah etc. ["sahwiyyah"]?

Or the "jihadi salafis" following 'Ali al-Khudhayr, Nasir al-Fahd, Ahmad al-Khalidi, etc?

Please don't get upset by this question, as it is important, because as you know there are many different groups who call themselves "salafis", yet they call the other "salafi" groups non-salafis.

**Musleemah** · 11-06-2006, 07:19 AM

As for ('Ali al-Khudhayr, Nasir al-Fahd, Ahmad al-Khalidi) they have repented and returned to the right path insha Allah.
A book called "al-muraj'aat" mentions this and talks about their repentence and their sayings.
There is even a site dedicated to it in Arabic : http://www.murajaat.com/

As for Safar al-Hawali, Salman al-'Awdah etc ... they have mistakes.. they were on manhaj al-Ikhwan. So I am not exactly on their manhaj.

As for (Rabi' al-Madkhali, Falih al-Harbi, 'Abdul-Muhsin al-'Abbad ... etc)

These scholars have knowledge... and are strong in the knowledge of sunnah (specifically Rabi' al-Madkhali).. I respect him for his knowledge... and I think some of the ones who claim that they are on his manhaj have done somethings and said things that he didn't say or call to.
The ones you see on internet called "madkhaliyyah or Jamiyyah" have gone a little extreme in calling some shaikhs "mubtadi'ah"... but they are correct in some.. but not in all. But still their aqeedah is correct.. it is just that some have gone over board in accusing others of being mubtadi'ah.

I have not read what Shaikh Madkhali himself said, so I can't judge him... but the ones online.. I think that some have gone overboard... may Allah guide us and them.

Basically I am on the Manhaj of Shaikh Ibn Baz, Uthaimian, Albani ... etc. rahimahum Allah. So if you want to know what my manhaj is and my beliefs, read the books of these great scholars. (Note: these scholars made mistakes ... but their mistakes are minor compared to their sawab and great knowledge).

I hope my manhaj is clear to you now.
If it is not.. you can ask me and I will answer insha Allah.

(No attacks on the shaikhs I mentioned above please.. this is just an answer to Abu Abdillah al-Maliki's question... stick to the topic... don't start the attacks please).

**Abu 'Abdillah al-Maliki** · 11-06-2006, 07:31 AM

As for ('Ali al-Khudhayr, Nasir al-Fahd, Ahmad al-Khalidi) they have repented and returned to the right path insha Allah.

Repented of their own free will in a Saudi prison... come on sister don't tell me that you are so naive to believe that!!! Why on earth are they still in prison then??? Why did 'Ali al-Khudhayr's face have all the marks of torture on it? Is that what it took to "bring him back to the right path"?

By the way, sister, you might not be aware that Nasir al-Fahd managed to get a message out after his "repentance", in which he clearly stated that he was coerced to do it, and he only did so based on his view that it was allowed for him to do so as "tuqyah". He said that if he were able to go back in time and re-live that moment he would never have relented to them even if they killed him, because of the confusion that became widespread after his "repentance" was made public in the media.

By the way, he is still there, and was being tortured very heavily after his "repentance", and apparently there were CIA officials there helping in the interrogations.

La hawla wa-la quwwata illa billah. Do you really have such husn adh-dhann for the Saudi government and their "dawlat ut-tawhid"?

**Abu 'Abdillah al-Maliki** · 11-06-2006, 07:33 AM

Basically I am on the Manhaj of Shaikh Ibn Baz, Uthaimian, Albani ... etc. rahimahum Allah. So if you want to know what my manhaj is and my beliefs, read the books of these great scholars. (Note: these scholars made mistakes ... but their mistakes are minor compared to their sawab and great knowledge).

BTW most of the various "salafi" groups out there who are fighting each other and differing with each other and using harsh language to each other and denouncing each other as murji'ah, khawarij etc... most of these groups each claim that they are on the "true" manhaj of Ibn Baz, al-Albani and Ibn 'Uthaymin, and that their opponents are not.

**Musleemah** · 11-06-2006, 08:05 AM

most of these groups each claim that they are on the "true" manhaj of Ibn Baz, al-Albani and Ibn 'Uthaymin, and that their opponents are not

I know that... most of them are "claiming" but if you read what Shaikh Ibn Baz, al-Albani and Ibn 'Uthaymin say and believe... you would know that most of them are not on their manhaj.... although some of them actually go against these shaikhs and some of their fatwas, and don't really claim to be on their manhaj.

To make my manhaj more clear... I am not from the ones who have "khawarij" beliefs... not from the ones who follow manhaj al-Ikhwan and I don't agree with calling every person who has done a mistake a "mubtadi' " or cutting him off completely (meaing not taking from him at all), unless his bid'ah is very serious, being shirk or kufr or leading to it and he calls to that bid'ah.
And of course I am not to judge who is mubtadi' or not.. I leave to it trustworthy scholars who are on the manhaj of the shaikhs, I have mentioned above, whom are on the manhaj of as-Salaf.

**Jamaluddine** · 11-06-2006, 08:10 AM

Assalamu alaikum,

Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdillah al-Maliki

BTW most of the various "salafi" groups out there who are fighting each other and differing with each other...

What, and are you saying that all other groups (Sufis, Ibathis, Sh'ites...etc) have perfect relationships between them?!

And anyway, Is that a good criterium for deducing that they are all on the wrong path?!

Didn't the Companions RAA of the Prophet SAWS differ at times (sometimes violently)?!, did that mean that they were all wrong?

It does not matter who is fighting with whom. The Truth lies somewhere. The Truth is what we are all looking for. And we only get one chance at that in this life.

Wassalam
Jamaluddine

**Musleemah** · 11-06-2006, 08:15 AM

As for the issue of prisons and the shaikhs you have mentioned.. I have not seen the picture of shaikh Khudair to know if he is tortured or not.. some say that is the way he looks (which I don't how it is).

You have to bring proof that they are being tortured... their families are allowed to visit them... so have you heard any of their family members say that they have been tortured?
I can't really say for sure about this,, because I have no proof... so it is not right for me to judge and assume without proof. For Allah will ask me about it on day of jugdement... accusing people of things that they might be innocent of... so when I don't know.. it is better to stay silent.

As for the reason why they are still in prison, it is because of the rights of the people who have had relatives killed in the bombings that happened because of their past fatwas... I have been told that the government has dropped its right (the distruction of buildings..etc.) but there is still the rights of the individuals who have lost family members... so they still have to go to court to be judged about the rights of the individuals ... wallahu a'lam.